Ringu (AKA Dracula : Vampires :: Sadako : Brunette Creepy Girls) w/ Erica and Joe

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What is Progressively Horrified?

A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.

Jeremy: For some reason, my zoom has to
be all the way open to my full screen

for the record button to show up.

Emily: Huh.

Erica: That's really good UI design

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah, that is

Jeremy: Now when I shrink it down,
AI companion, a button I have

never pressed ever, is still on my
dashboard here, but the record is not.

Erica: Zoom AI is like what
is what it's people talking.

Jeremy: It just says the
talking for you, you know, the

content creation and all that.

Emily: I'm seriously about to have
an existential crisis about this AI.

Erica: I just marked them
all as disinformation.

Joe: Well, hopefully soon there can
be like a climate catastrophe to

distract us from the ai invasion.

Jeremy: Well, luckily, the AI invasion
is causing a climate catastrophe, so,

you

Joe: that's great.

That's great.

Yeah.

Hooray,

Jeremy: taking care of itself.

I guess now we can talk about the
fun idea of media killing us, not the

actual way in which it's happening.

Joe: That's a great way to intro this

Jeremy: Yeah,

Ben: Alicia, definitely include
this bit in the before part,

wait, before we start the intro.

Jeremy: all right.

Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast

where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.

Tonight, we're talking about
the death of physical media.

Or is it death by physical media?

Anyway, a much more fun way for media to
kill us than it actually is right now.

It's Ringu.

It's the Japanese version of The Ring,
the original on which we have now

based our I feel like a dozen movies.

There's a lot of them.

I am your host, Jeremy Whitley.

And with me tonight, I have a
panel of cinephiles and Cenobites.

First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire

binary, my co host, Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: Jeremy, if you knew that you had
seven days left to live, how much of

those would you spend with your children?

Jeremy: I mean, I do feel like
they take it out of Reiko's hands

by being like, if you don't solve
this, your children will die.

It's like, oh, well, okay.

Now I have to not be with my child.

Joe: Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeremy: so I can't really blame her much.

Ben: My favorite parts of the movie
were the look on Hiroyuki Sanada's face

as you just get to see him go through
this whirl of emotion of being like,

Should you be neglecting our son?

Well, I guess I'm neglecting our son also.

Well, right, to each their own.

Jeremy: Let's all neglect our son.

Ben: He did it all without a word.

Jeremy: And the cinnamon
roll of Cenobites.

Our co host, Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: Well, I might be feeling
better about my chances if I

am given seven days to live.

you know, as long as
there's a video I can copy.

Jeremy: Real problem is finding
a VCR to show it to somebody now.

Emily: I too, I have two VCRs technically.

Jeremy: Do

you have one of the ones with the
two decks so you can, you know,

Emily: Not that one, but I have the RCA
cables and I have the coaxial cable.

Hey kids, if you want to
survive a curse, you AV club.

It's important.

Jeremy: It's very difficult
to survive these days.

and our guests tonight, both returning
guests and friends of the podcast.

First, outstanding Superstar Comics
artist, podcatcher, and all around

Renaissance woman, Erica Henderson.

Erica, welcome back!

Erica: hey uh, I almost
said great to be back.

Like I'm on like a
radio show from the 90s.

Emily: You are

Erica: oh shit.

All right.

Well, I fucked that one up.

Ben: If it makes you feel any better,
I did once work for Howard Stern.

Erica: How did that go?

Ben: It was cool, I interned for
a summer, it was very surreal.

Erica: All right, cool.

Ben: Lots of swearing in the workplace.

Erica: but yeah I'm very ready for this.

I, I've seen, if not all of the Ring
movies, most of them, and also read 2.

5 of the three books.

Jeremy: had not realized until this,
this go, that this had been a book, and

I saw the credit on there, and I was
like, Interesting that this thing that

seems so video specific was a book first,

Erica: Yeah, it was, uh, it was based
on a book and then they did a movie.

of uh, Spiral, the second book.

And everyone fucking hated the movies.

And they did bring two where they
were like, we're just going to keep

doing the thing in the first movie

Jeremy: nice.

And also joining us, outstanding writer
and editorial, Rockstar, is such a good

friend of the podcast, that if he does
one more episode, he gets a free sandwich.

It's Joe Carallo, welcome back, Joe!

Joe: Thank you!

It's, good to be back.

Yeah!

I guess we're here to ring.

I, I was working on some other
things, like when you were asking

everyone, like, how they're doing,
I was gonna be like, I'm doing well,

cause there's a well in the movie.

I was trying to figure out something
with Sonic the Hedgehog rings and

I just couldn't do it in time.

So, but imagine a funny joke involving

Ben: Ahhhh My version would
be I could really go for, uh,

throwing myself into a volcano.

Jeremy: It's such a dramatic
way to die, you know?

Emily: it's funny that the, doctor,
that was trying to assert his dominance

threw the girl into a well, actually,

Joe: Yeah!

Jeremy: Oh boy.

Joe: Was, it the Greek
philosopher Empedocles who

threw himself into the volcano?

I'm trying to think of which,
which one of those guys did that.

Cause a man does that, you know?

It's a very

Ben: of all the Injustices I've done
to myself pretty high up on the list

is my first real exposure to this
story, coming from Scary Movie 3.

Erica: Wow.

Ben: that's a bad first impression,
as much as the scene where Regina

fights their version of Cursed
Girl is fuckin amazing, the rest

of the movie Don't watch it.

Emily: that's very brave
of you to admit that.

And I respect you deeply for
being so vulnerable to us.

Jeremy: Yeah, I gotta say, I think,
for me, the first exposure to this

series was the Naomi Watts remake, uh,
which as, Remakes of horror movies go.

It's pretty solid and manages
to do it mostly by just

being the same fucking movie.

Emily: yeah.

Except with weird horse death.

Sorry, everyone, but
go to Does the Dog Die?

there's some stuff on there for the ring.

Ben: Before I get, accused,
I this movie fucking rules.

This is a really good movie.

what definitely didn't help me
viewing it for the first time in 2024.

Especially just, this is one of those
movies where, not having seen it, so

many entire scenes I still knew just
through sheer pop culture osmosis.

Joe: hmm.

Ben: First and foremost, the
scene of, oh my god, I'm blanking

on the name, of ghost girl.

Somebody help me, please.

Sadako crawling through the TV.

I did not realize that they
saved that until, like, nearly

the very end of the movie.

So it definitely became a
bit of a, when are they gonna

get to the fireworks factory?

Viewing experience.

Erica: Yeah.

I think in the other ones, they
speed it up some, but like, yeah,

it is weird coming back to it.

Cause I, think I might've seen this
one before the Gore Verbinski one.

And the pacing of it, have it being
such a cultural icon that moment now

that it's really weird trying to get
back into that mindset of like, oh,

this was a crazy thing to have seen.

Ben: I really wish I could have
experienced it because, again, Not

only knowing it's coming, but spending
the entire movie anticipating it.

It's still so creepy and effective
to have been in a theater, watching

it on the big screen in the dark,
having no idea that this was coming.

I wish I could have experienced
that, because it's so, it's, it's

so worthy of its iconic status.

Emily: yes.

like, it's a really good effect,
considering most of the movie's

effects are, like flashback scenes.

Erica: right, it, occasionally
things go black and white

and that's the extent of it.

They have one skeleton.

Ben: look, we expose film
negatives to sunlight.

And that's good enough.

Emily: Yeah, that's cool.

Jeremy: I mean, otherwise the other
jump special effects are all like

things reflected in TV screens.

Emily: Yeah.

Joe: Yeah.

Jeremy: That's, the extent to the
scariness for most of this film.

Ben: I think what this movie lacks in
big, overt, full on scares and effects,

it makes up for in a really well
done mystery investigation plotline.

Erica: Yeah.

And that's, basically the book.

I read the book when I was in high
school, but like, It's really similar,

except that the main character's a man.

Ben: And Ryuji's still
the ex husband, right?

Erica: Nah, he's just a friend.

Ben: Nah.

Erica: But it's funny, because like,
they're clearly setting up the next

book, because him being a shit about his
family and son, is setting up number two.

Emily: I haven't read any of the books,
and I would love to at some point,

Erica: Oh, they're fucking wild.

Emily: Yeah,

I'm sure.

Ben: This movie did deliver a fucking
knockout punch of a twist, though,

which was, I did not know Hiroyuki
Sanada starred in this movie, and

when I realized he was in this
movie, I fucking got up and cheered.

I was just so excited to see him,
and he's so young and so handsome.

Erica: it's insane.

his first scene, though, is so good,
just him and the kid staring each

other and you don't know why, and it's
so fucking awkward, and you don't get

to know for like, another few scenes.

Emily: Yeah,

Jeremy: I love that he, enters this
movie by standing still on the street.

it's just

Emily: it's so Japanese horror, though.

Like, I love it.

I love it so much.

I've been, exercised in the, uh, the
Japanese horror vocabulary, mostly

because I've watched, so much David
Lynch stuff, and I know that that's

where a lot of it you know, there's
at least one little, like, sprinkling,

like, a little, pinch of Lynch in there.

I mean, I'm here for like all
the weird staring and stuff

Ben: Oh,

I love the scene where he's on the bench
and he's just like, oh no, ghost legs.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Personally, I'm ready for your
spinoff podcast, A Pinch of Blinch.

Emily: Yeah, there we go.

Ben: This is another problem,
though, with watching it in 2024.

Because I see Hiroyuki Sonata
and I'm like, Oh, they're fine.

Scorpion's here.

Emily: yeah.

Ben: up, he's gonna throw a
fucking chain through her, face

is gonna turn into a skull, he's
gonna breathe fire, no problem.

Even after he's dead, it's like,
that's no big deal, he comes

back from that all the time.

He's Scorpion, he's fine.

Erica: For me, seeing it, I was just
like, oh, it's nice that he gets to just

play a guy and not the Japanese guy.

Joe: Yeah.

Erica: a guy, which is lovely.

He's just a shitty ex husband.

Emily: in Japan.

Ben: who can't hit his

deadlines,

Joe: part of this too, I was working
on a Hollywood video when this

came out along with, like the,
American version and then the, um,

this came out in like VHS and DVD.

Around that same time, so I got to
deal with people who would come in

wanting to exchange because they
didn't know they got the wrong movie,

stuff like that, so that was fun.

But, um, I haven't watched any of
Ring or, Ringu in, coming up on two

decades probably because it was right
around then, and I think a testament

to how, how strong this movie is.

is watching it again now.

I was like, Oh, I
remember this whole thing.

The beats are the movie is just
structured in such a way that just

unfolds in such like a, natural way.

ramps up the tension and in, in just right
where it's like, Oh yeah, this scene.

And then, Oh, this scene's coming up.

And I remember this reveal and that
reveal and, and the piecemeal bits

of the story we get throughout,
like it's really well structured.

Ben: yeah, I think it's, well done.

It's well executed.

And it really is the template
for what became like kind of the

next 20 years of like this genre.

Like, it's one of those things
where it's like, every J.

Har you've seen for the last 20
years can probably trace a good

chunk of its DNA back to this.

Erica: I mean, not even J Horror.

There was someone, like, last week
who was like, why does every single

horror movie have an image that's
a girl with hair in her face?

I was like, it's The Ring.

It's

Ben: Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: This is the reason we got
all the creepy little girls.

This is the creepy little
girl, like, codifier.

What Dracula is to vampires,
this is to creepy little girls.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: this, all creepy little
girls could do is stand in the

hallway and sing nursery rhymes.

She, she actually does the killing, you

know,

Emily: She's great for brunette
creepy girls non white creepy girls.

Yeah.

POC feminist icon, Sadako,

Ben: big inspiration for Sia, I imagine.

Emily: The first time I saw anything to
do with the ring was It was after the ring

had come out, but it had the little video.

This is the adaptation,
the Naomi Watts adaptation.

And there was a, feature on the, uh,
The DVD where it would just show the

little Video that they watched in the
movie that would curse you and a friend

of mine had it recorded onto a VHS
tape and they showed it to me because

they were talking about basically
like the prototype analog horror.

And we were talking about, like,
weird, creepy shit we would

see on cable late at night.

And they showed me this, and immediately
after it finished, the fucking phone rang.

I hadn't seen the movie, so I didn't
really, like, have the context,

Ben: Yeah, the problem is you
really need the context of the

movie for that prank to really work.

Emily: I mean the movie, the little
video itself is kind of neat,

Ben: I've seen worse student films.

This Oh,

Emily: I've seen worse professional films.

Erica: Speaking of movies that
influenced fucking everything The Ring.

And this was done fully in camera
I, I went down a whole fucking

rabbit hole on this recently.

The Ring started the blue green horror
movie thing, because Verbinski had

everyone, like, all the shots done
through different blue green filters.

It wasn't like the digital thing that
we got, like, literally two years later.

Ben: shit, I did not know that.

Erica: Yeah it was all
film in camera work.

Ben: Oh, shit.

Erica: Really in depth YouTube video
that just goes through the whole

like, they use this stuff, they did
this, and this, and finding like 30

year old magazines to back it up.

Ben: Yeah, cause, again, I haven't
seen the remake, but even I know

how iconic that look it achieved is.

Emily: Yeah, so do we
want to recap this film?

Ben: I can dive us into the recap uh,
where we get You know, the, even by,

yeah, cause by 98, Scream is already
doing its own iconic horror movie

opener, but we get our opener with the
teenage, with our, what do you call

them, the ritual sacrifice teenager?

like, to the movie patron
to start the horror film.

Joe: our teenagers that explain
how the rules in the film work

before they are nobly sacrificed to

Ben: It's a real tell and
show narrative device.

Emily: Yeah,

Erica: I do like that it does also set
up the aspect of the movie that's about

urban legends that we kind get into as
well and like how much of it's true by

the constant back and forth of like, oh it
was a joke, no it wasn't, it was a joke.

Emily: yeah.

Erica: we get that three times.

Ben: Again, the analog horror aspect of it
is one of my favorite parts of the movie.

Joe: One of the interesting bits of
this scene, too, is unlike most of

the other movie, this series of scenes
in that very beginning, It's shot

in a more, like, voyeuristic way.

The camera's a little further away.

It's almost like we're, like,
eavesdropping on these kids.

And it's not until after this scene
that we get the camera closer on the

characters more, less things obstructing.

Because there's also, like,
obstructions of, furniture and things

like that in the way of the kids.

And you really don't get that close up
until the very end when it, Turns black

and white and all that and then it cuts
away, but then it's sort of shot more

like a traditional movie So it's a very
thought like well intentioned choice

that really helps to like add to that
idea of the urban legends bit and we're

sort of like Listening in on these
kids rather than being a part of it.

Ben: It's got a little bit of that
voyeuristic element that reminded

me of the original Black Christmas.

Joe: Yes.

That's such a good movie

Erica: yeah, you point out the voyeuristic
element, but we also start really

close up on the TV, to the point where
it's, it's abstract, and so, like,

we are listening in on other people
while, like, inside the television.

Emily: we're looking through
well, I don't want to spoil

Ben: Yeah,

Emily: We're not

Erica: You can't spoil The Ring in 2024.

Ben: no, yeah, it's,

Emily: Don't want to
get ahead of ourselves

Ben: it's fine.

Jeremy: I feel like this scene especially
is very like, It feels like pan, I don't

know, continental, it's like the thing
of two kids talking about this, scary

urban legend and this, myth that's going
around feels like it can be anywhere.

Ben: it very much speaks to the
universe, the universality of horror.

Joe: Mm hmm.

Ben: Again, not every culture likes
all of the same genres, and yet every

country, everywhere on the face of
the earth, pretty much as soon as

they fucking got their hands on a
camera, they started making horror.

Emily: But I mean, it's the tale as well.

You know, that's a telling the tale
and how the tale changes You know

is affected by ideas and events
and things like that, which is

Joe: Yeah.

Emily: human.

Ben: Yeah, honestly, it feels a little in
conversation with Scream and just how meta

it's about an urban legend about urban

Emily: yeah,

Joe: Yeah, it's very late.

It is both very Culturally, Japanese
while also Just it's just well structured

and paced and character driven and like
those things You know break down barriers

just about everywhere if you have a
well structured Character driven movie

it's going to appeal to a wide audience.

Erica: but it's like, it is very
Japanese, but yeah, I think it's so, this

moment of, like, two high school girls.

just having fun.

there's not a single thing about it
that wouldn't be in the opening of an

American film, like, they're watching

baseball, they're talking about, like,
oh, I went away with my boyfriend,

like, oh my god, I didn't get to
go, like, we didn't do anything,

like, everything about it is like,

Ben: going to be a weird comparison in
that it kind of reminds me, not textually,

but in what we're talking about in terms
of its origins and its, global appeal,

it kind of reminds me of the office.

were in its original form.

Probably only the British could have
come up with it, but once the genie was

out of the bottle, everyone was able
to relate to it and make it their own.

Emily: yeah,

Erica: just almost wonder if that
opening scene is based on, like, American

80s, 90s horror film, because it's

It's so familiar.

Ben: at least be in conversation with it.

If it's not, Directly, it's influenced
by things that were influenced by it.

Joe: And, and there is so little
changed in the American version on

Erica: don't have to

Joe: Yeah, exactly.

It is just like, it is all like
special effects stuff and all that.

Other than that it's,
basically the same exact scene.

Emily: yeah.

Ben: I'm trying to think of what else
I know was like, going on in Japanese

horror at the time, and the only thing
I can really think of is I know the

Parasite Eve novel had been like a bit of
a hit, and that was still kind of working

that same kind of investigative angle.

Erica: was the grudge
like two years later.

I'm trying to remember.

Ben: Oh,

Jeremy: The American version was, I

don't know what

Ben: I know they got a Freddy vs.

Jason.

I know they did Ring

Erica: Oh, it's so bad.

It's so

Ben: I know they merge like they're
turning into fucking Gojira.

Erica: Yeah, it's literally the
same ending as Freddy versus Jason.

Ben: Amazing.

Erica: it's truly awful.

Okay.

Yeah, the grudge is 2002.

Ben: ring versus grudge, coming to
a progressively horrified near you.

Erica: You don't wanna do it.

You don't wanna do it.

Jeremy: I really love that, like,
this introduction after this first

scene with Asakawa, like, we have
her, like, researching this tape and

then, like, She turns around and she's
like, Oh yeah, there's all these high

school kids that have supposedly died.

And then she's like, I have to go
to a funeral for a high school kid.

Couldn't possibly be related.

And then like, she's on the phone later
and she's like, wait, what school?

Hold on.

And she goes, she's like, Oh yeah,
that's, the same school my niece went to.

Okay.

She'd look into that.

It never occurs to her before that.

the deaths of all these teenagers
that she's talking about in this

research has anything to do with
her niece who also just died.

Erica: I'm willing to let it
slide that she isn't like,

ah, a videotape killed them.

Ben: I do love that when she's on the
trail, though, for the videotape, it's

not hidden away, she doesn't need to break
in, she just goes to like, the resort,

and it's like, there next to, I don't
know, Japanese Air Bud, and Pretty Woman.

Joe: well, it's a, it's a necessary
plot contrivance for the film, right?

Because it's trying to ramp up, our
lead character getting closer and

closer to the actual events until she's,
you wrapped up in them personally.

So it's this like, okay, it's
a little more voyeuristic.

it's still like an urban legend.

Oh, this death is now
like attached to her.

Oh, now she's attached.

So, yeah, so for plot's sake, it's almost
like, well, you kind of have to give

it a pass because they're it's ramping
up and you see what they're doing.

So,

Ben: It also makes some stuff with
Yoichi, the sun cleaner, to then

have the victim have a connection
already not just to her, but to him.

You

Erica: although I, I think in
the book, it's just like my niece

died and then I'm going to look
into it because I'm a reporter.

But yeah, like I, I think they
really, really want to emphasize

the whole like urban legend
aspect and storytelling aspect.

So they, go from the kids telling
stories to kids telling stories.

Joe: Yeah.

Ben: I'm wondering what
the remake would have been.

There's definitely a period of time where
Netflix would have fucking put this up.

They'll be like, yeah,
like creepy murder video?

Greenlit.

We'll cancel you, we'll cancel you after
a season, but you're getting that season.

Creepy murder video.

Anyway, After, Tomoko explains
the rules, Y you know the

rules, it's the fucking ring.

You know the rule.

Watch a videotape, die seven days
later, we don't see what kills her, we

know what fucking kills her, it's the

Jeremy: Certain symptoms that we discover
as we go on, uh, you get creepy things

showing up behind you in reflections,
uh, you, you take really bad pictures.

I mean, according to, like, my mom's
holiday picture taking skill, I've been

dying for, like, ten years now, so,

Erica: Also, is that another
thing this movie started?

Was, you look weird in pictures?

Emily: I think that was pre,
like, that was a thing beforehand.

Cause I know in, Japanese ghost
stories, that's like a thing.

Erica: Oh, okay.

Ben: When did Fatal Frame start?

When did that series

Jeremy: It was a big thing Shutter, too.

Ben: Okay, well there's no fucking way

You get

Emily: the

Ben: Shutter without this.

Erica: Yeah,

Emily: had.

Erica: later.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: No, Shutter owes like,
half its fucking box office

to just the makers of Ring.

Emily: I'm pretty sure it is the
omen that has the photograph scene,

Erica: Oh yeah, yeah, with where it's
like pointing to people who are gonna die.

Ben: And you could probably, I mean,
attitudes about, like, souls and

capturing apparitions on photographs,
I mean, that just goes back to like,

as soon as bored rich people got a
hold of photographs and started seeing

weird shit, they're like, GHOSTS!

Emily: yeah.

Ben: After Tomoko dies, we get an
introduction to her aunt and our

main character, Reiko Asakawa.

She's a journalist investigating all sorts
of, Spookies going on, looking into the

depths, uh, and finds out that they all
watched a videotape and all died, I think

some of them were making out, I think some
of them were on a motorcycle, like you

said, feels very, like, they have a whole
80s movie that happened, like, off screen.

Emily: Yes.

Joe: Part of what makes that work
too is, she's not a paranormal

investigator, we don't get like,
sidetracked and confused with like,

we need a paranormal investigator,
we gotta find this psychic, or this

kind of person, and it's, it's more of

a,

Ben: we, have to find the
psychic comes later in the plot.

Emily: Well, the

Joe: Y yeah

Emily: to her.

Joe: Yeah, but it's like so, so you're
really like sort of laser focused on her

for a while and her struggle, it's kind of
like The Exorcist in a way where it's so

much about like the mom and her struggle
and and what do I have to do like you

can kind of see those elements there.

Emily: Yeah.

Erica: like that this really
starts off more as curiosity.

It's not even like, oh, my niece is dead.

I need to figure out what happened.

Like, as far as she's concerned, her niece
died of like a weird teenage heart attack.

They just don't know what it is exactly.

But she's like, oh, well, I'm
already working on this story.

And I just found kids who are part of it.

So, yeah, let's go.

Let's find this video.

Ben: Yeah, I mean, it seems to
just be, you know, journalistic

curiosity that's driving her
for most of this early portion.

Emily: Yeah.

And then she starts seeing,
connecting the dots.

Ben: yeah, and you know, we got her son
who definitely can see ghosts and stuff.

Erica: Yeah, I love her

Ben: Did this inspire Sixth Sense, too?

Oh, yes.

I don't know how much this movie
invented and if No, there's no way

this movie invented weird kids.

Right?

Emily: no.

Ben: before this.

Emily: Uh,

Jeremy: They've been weird
kids as long as I've been kids.

Emily: Yeah.

Joe: Googling like Ringu
weird kids question mark.

Emily: Big long string.

Erica: I think for this one it's
definitely more in line of like,

this kid has one parent, therefore
he has to take care of himself.

I think it's one of those.

Ben: if there's so the one thing I did
struggle with this movie a little bit

is beyond just like the thrilling and
engaging supernatural horror mystery.

Is.

those kind of deeper
themes and what it's about.

and again, there's a lot, like,
all that really stands out is like,

look at this career oriented woman
not taking good care of her kid.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: letting him be neurodivergent
coded and watch murder videos.

And I still don't know
quite what to do with that,

Jeremy: I don't know, it's such
a weird thing to me that like, I

watch a lot of like, even, even
anime and stuff that's current.

And there's a lot of like, school
kid goes home, cooks their own

dinner by themselves, like is,
just is there by themselves alone.

And I think, oh, that's crazy.

And then I'm like, Oh, wait, that
kind of was like my life was, you

know, a kid at certain points, like
in the, you know, eighties and early

nineties, my parents both had jobs.

And it was just like, I just walked
a couple of blocks from the school

and watch my brother for a few hours.

Ben: Yeah.

So Raiko finds the cabin she finds the
cursed murder tape just hanging out

in This

Erica: like, my favorite, or
maybe my second favorite shot

in the entire movie though.

Cause she's like, her eye Or rather,
her guy slash the camera is going

down this little shelf of videos.

And then when it hits the one
blank tape, the entire screen goes

staticky, like we're watching a VHS.

like, oh, oh, chef's kiss.

I just love when you get those
moments where, the environment

is altered to fit a mental state.

I guess her mental state is
VHS, but like, I don't care.

It's great.

Jeremy: fascinated by this guy running
the place that just like put this tape in

a, like blank tape on a blank sleeve back
on the shelf without even like looking

at it, I mean, that could be, it could
be somebody's sex tape in there with

like, there's no knowing what is on that

date.

Ben: want to

know is how, how many has this
man killed with that tape?

Emily: It's not his fault.

They chose the tape.

Yeah.

Erica: yeah, and also like, we know that
Sadako put it in that cabinet, so like, it

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah, but also, here's the
thing, if this guy really needs to

get rid of somebody, like, it's not
hard to just slip that VHS into the,

I don't know, into the Lion King,

or,

Emily: I mean, yeah, but I mean,
you know, this movie's got a move

Ben: I'm just, saying,

Jeremy: Toho movies to

Ben: put, you just put one VHS into
the block, you just, like, slip that

into the, like, a different box,
put that in the blockbuster system,

and you can wreak havoc nationwide,

Emily: What about streaming?

How do you copy a streaming movie?

Sadako,

Jeremy: You

just have to send
somebody the YouTube link.

Ben: yeah, you gotta upload first,
Sadako can't access Dropbox,

She

Erica: curious, in, at the very start of
the second book, because the first book

is like the same as the first movie,
that ends in the same place, second

book starts with copying didn't work.

Actually, Sadako is a virus.

She has learned how to transform.

And she is now like, if you watch the
video, and you're a woman, you get

pregnant and give birth to a new Sadako.

Jeremy: And I don't like that.

Erica: And then the

Ben: I take back my, I take back my
conjecture about the Parasite Eve

connection, and now state my certainty
about the Parasite Eve connection.

Statica

Erica: oh yeah, now she's definitely
100 percent a virus, she is AIDS

now, she is cancer and AIDS.

Emily: No!

God damn it.

Erica: So yeah, you have to
worry about copying it because

it fully goes off the rails.

Ben: Okay.

Oh,

she just keeps killing, but
Netflix just keeps signing

her to more stand up specials.

Emily: God.

Yeah, the only way to kill
Sadako is to cancel her.

That's the ticket.

Erica: Ugh.

Ben: she's opening for Chappelle on
tour, what the fuck are we gonna do?

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Uncancellable.

Emily: happens?

Ben: Oh boy, so, she, after finding
the tape, she, I don't know if it's

more the tape is calling to her.

Or, journalistic bravery, or just,
let's do it, she watches it, she

watches the creepy murder tape, she
gets the phone call, that gives her

this, you're gonna die static, and
she's like, shit, I have no choice

but to enlist the help of my friends.

Bye!

Incredibly handsome sketchy ex husband,
thus bringing us a Hiroyuki Sanada in

this movie, who is Yo, however fine you
think he's looking, He's so much finer.

He's

Emily: yeah.

And this movie, he's like,
also kind of scraggly looking.

Like, he's got a

little bit of scruff.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Yeah, but he, like, he pulls
it off and he's just, mm.

Ben: Yeah,

Erica: I think it's one of those things
where like, they got the most handsome

man they could find, also looks a
little sketchy, and then it has him be

the worst ex husband, so you're just
like, I mean, I guess I sort of get it

Ben: this

The sketchiness makes him handsomer.

Erica: no, it does, but by the end when
they're like, uh, when she's sort of

considering it again, it's like, you still
get it, even though he's been terrible.

Ben: look, he's very much the
fuck in the fuck marry kill option

Emily: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's definitely, like, I don't
know if I really want to deal with

that baggage the rest of my life,

because not only,

Ben: you do, you do

Emily: like,

Ben: that package.

Emily: the ESP or whatever, but he's
also, like, a physicist or some shit?

Like, what the fuck is his book about?

Like, he has definitely got
some Fox Mulder shit going on

Erica: there are math books, people write

Ben: I really thought, I, I don't know
how, but there was definitely a moment

where I'm like, Oh, he's gonna, Math his
way to defeating Sadako, but then because

the grad student fucked with the equation,
his math will be wrong, and he'll his

math trap will fail to defeat Sadako,
because the equation got fucked up.

That did not happen.

That was completely irrelevant.

Emily: That was just his grad
student just being a shithead.

Ben: Yeah,

Erica: that part was so confusing,

Jeremy: it's

Ben: I'm not sure how using math
to trap ghosts would have been

less confusing, but you know.

Emily: I would have been, I
would have been fascinated.

I've been like, let's get
this fucking let's go.

Let's get some quasars
in here or whatever.

No, quarks.

Ben: guy is God, this guy is right up
there with, like, the Doctor from The

Haunting from 1963, in just terms of
like, Yeah, we're doing ghost shit?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, send me the ghost shit.

Yeah, I wanna see the ghost shit.

And just acting completely blasé when
ghost shit then proceeds to happen.

Emily: Well, when you're going around and
you're like seeing ghosts and shit and

you're like, oh, this is some ghost shit.

Okay.

So this is the rules now.

All right.

You know, we got to do the thing.

We got to help the ghost
move on, blah, blah, blah.

Jeremy: wildest thing with this
movie though is like the gender

dimorphism and how they react to this.

Whereas like, when she's like, I'm going
to die because I watched this movie.

She's like faint on the
floor, scream, cry about it.

And he's like, Well, I'm going to die a
day after, so I got to fix this, I guess.

Ben: Which he goes into knowing it.

He, before he even puts it on, he
says, So I'm gonna watch it and

then I'll die the day after you.

The

Emily: I think he was, he knew
that he was going to die that day.

He probably likes a bunch of ghosts
have been talking to him and been like,

Hey, you're going to die on this day.

And he's like, cool.

Can you tell me how?

No, but it's, it's whack.

Like,

Erica: I mean,

Ben: back of his head, he's just like,
I'm not finishing that fucking paper.

I don't know how I'm gonna get out
of it yet, but just you wait and see.

I'm

gonna get

Emily: So he's like, Deadlines,
fuck it, I'm gonna go dig up a well

and send my wife down it and like,
fuckin try to empty out a shit well.

Erica: I was just like, he does
not seem to be very excited to be

alive anyway, so, he's just like,
you know what, I may as well learn

about murder ghost videotapes before

Ben: Again, he's Scorpion.

He knows that even if he dies, he
will just come back with more powers

Emily: Yeah, he's,

he's lost soul,

Ben: Yeah.

Yeah.

He'll, like, he'll Aven the Shiia, the
shire, you and get his revenge on quai.

It's fine.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: characters like this too,
I'm never sure like, I'm never sure

how sketchy I'm supposed to read him,
like the, female grad student just

delivering stuff to his, house, I guess.

Um, and I'm like, is

this like a,

Erica: fucking.

Jeremy: yeah, it's like a, it's like
an unspoken, especially like from her

end of like, I think they're fucking.

And then like, she's like, they got
cool inside jokes where she changes

his math equations on his chalkboard.

Like, ooh,

Emily: Oh, they

Ben: Oh, he's absolutely fucking,

Erica: I almost feel like she does it
because his ex wife is there, and she's

like, Oh, there's your hot ex wife.

Alright, well, I guess you guys
were already in here alone together,

you're going off together, so
I'm just gonna be here with the

groceries, rewriting your math.

Ben: but yeah, he like, he doesn't
quite believe her until he takes the

photograph and her photos all fucked up.

So he is like, ah, shit, ghost,
only ghosts make blurry photos.

There's some shit.

So he goes off to Matu, I guess, research
this, saying this phrase that's part of.

Like the video he is what really kicks
off the plot into it's I guess no

because it's already an investigation
And she's like it took her investigation

to hunt down the video and now we're
in a new Paranormal investigation

to hunt down the origin of the video

Erica: Yeah, now we're in the

Ben: one hope

Erica: section.

Emily: Except I love how dude
comes in and because he has like

ghost knowledge or whatever.

He's like, I'm going to expo
exposition time because the ghost

told me and the ghost told your
son too because he can see ghosts.

Were we going to talk about that?

No, we just know that he can see
ghosts and he can talk to them.

Ben: so while he's investigating, Reiko
takes, their son, Yoichi, to her father's

house to hang out, and, well, they do
investigating, but also, whoopsie Evil

Ghost Tomoko told him to watch the
video, and now he is also gonna die in

seven days, so now they really super
duper gotta wa gotta figure out how to

break this curse, or Yoichi's gonna die.

Joe: is how they raise the stakes
further after because it's like,

how do you raise the stakes
after they're both going to die?

So

Erica: yeah, neither one
seems all that urgent about it

until until their kid is
on the line, and even then.

Here Yui not is like, eh,

Ben: Ryuji, very apathetic about life
Reiko, seems to think that live or

die it's gonna make a good story,
which, I applaud your journalistic

endeavors, Reiko, yeah, oh, and a
different, oh my god, could you imagine

this era Hiroyuki Sonata as Superman?

Oh, holy shit.

Jeremy: Hey man,

it.

Emily: I'm sad that it's
not happening right now.

Or is it?

Ben: Yeah, it would've been cool,
but it didn't happen, unfortunately.

Yeah.

So there, so in Oshima, Reiko, and Ryuji
they learn about a, the woman in the

tape who was actually a famous psychic
who predicted the, volcano erupting

and stared out into the ocean and could
predict stuff that was drawn in pots.

Emily: That's a thing, by the way.

The pot thing is like a,
it's looking into pots.

That's a thing.

I don't know what it refers
to, but it's a thing.

I'll

Erica: Oh, It's it's not that
different from the ones where like,

you write something in, you're
another room, you ask someone else to

Ben: yes.

It's like when Bill Murray
had the cards with, uh, yeah.

And, like Bill Murray in Ghostbusters,
this professor was also hitting

on his prospective psychics.

Because, uh, while the psychic, Shizuko
is a red herring, whoopsie, the actual

villain is their daughter Sadako.

Except, maybe Sadako's dad is a demon?

I seem to throw that
out there a little bit.

I'm sure that gets explained
in like, ring zero,

Erica: It sure doesn't, it sure doesn't.

Ben: Oh, okay, good,

Erica: that's just where Yui saying stuff.

That's just him being
like, oh, you know what?

maybe her father was
a devil and like just,

Emily: Well, her father
was an ocean demon.

Jeremy: It's just honest
Mulder shit, you know?

Emily: yeah, and that's, but that's the
thing though, is like, that the demon

thing, like, cause I, first saw the Naomi
Watts version and I was like, I remember

in the, in the Naomi Watts version where
they like, find her well, and they're

like, oh, it's sad and blah, and we
saved her, and then the, the kid was

like, you're not supposed to help her.

Don't you understand?

She never sleeps.

And she's just crazy and evil.

and in this case, she was
a maligned half yokai.

Like, there was like, definitely
some yokai shit going on.

And when you're like, I don't know, when
you're out in the middle of nowhere in

Japan and, I say this because this is
what I've experienced, people are like,

oh yeah, there's a monster over there.

Yeah, we just, we don't go over there.

Yeah, is there a story?

No, it's just we know there's
a monster in those woods.

Just, carry a flashlight.

and in my story that I've told about
my friend who is too goth for the

kitsune yeah, they, the kitsune don't
attack goths because goths scare them.

Um,

Ben: Took off for the kitsune.

I've never heard something that
sounds more like the title of an

issue in a Kieran Gillen series
that I would really like to read.

Emily: my friend's host family, when
I was in Japan, I was visiting them

and they were like, you got to worry
about the Obake and the Kitsune.

And I was like, the what?

And they're like, here's
the flashlight, bye.

And I'm like, wait, chotto matte.

And so, and then they're like, oh, we
don't have to worry, you don't have

to worry about the Kitsune because
your friend here is, is too goth.

He's like Batman.

they won't bother him because
he is wears black and is scary.

And I was like, well that's good
because I walked through those woods

on that road with no lights or speed
limit, and I kept lagging behind,

and that fucking flashlight kept
going out but I'm still here today.

Ben: That would explain a lot
if Emily is actually three

yokai stacked in a trench coat.

Emily: I mean, it would
explain the height.

Erica: Well, the OBA are,
uh, shapeshifters, so you

could, it can be just the one

Emily: I could be a Nobake,
yeah, like I could do that

Jeremy: This is the real
revelation for this, this episode.

Emily: yeah,

Ben: I also like the idea that
a demon took over human form

and now does art and podcasting.

Emily: Yeah, that's where it started.

Joe: Where are we on the
movie recap at this point?

Ben: Right?

So after they figure that out, they go,
KO's brother takes them through a storm to

an island or a different part of the same
island, or just one of the bigger islands

of the archipelago where there's a cabin
where they find the well and they spend.

They're potentially Reiko's last day
alive, just fucking just emptying

out this well bucket by bucket.

Erica: But I thought the well
was under the original cabin.

Emily: it was in the original, so they
would go back to the original, from

the island to the original cabin.

Yeah.

Ben: yeah.

Jeremy: where they found the,
the movie in the first place.

Yeah, I also like, I will say the Sadako
like, this really follows, like, X

Men rules, and that the mom has, like,
mind reading abilities, so she has a

child who has mind killing abilities.

Emily: Yeah,

Jeremy: alright.

Emily: that's where the,
the ocean demon came in.

Jeremy: That's her legion

Emily: Yeah, it's too

bad that she didn't, Who's that who's
that guy or person, the creature that

Ben: Gambit.

You're thinking of Gambit.

Emily: we'll talk about it later.

There's the creature in the

ocean that

Ben: the,

Emily: with disease.

Ben: yes, okay, right.

So that explains why
the videotape was there.

I don't know.

I always just thought there
was a lot of cabins going

Erica: no, no.

She, she like projected
outwards and upwards.

Ben: Okay, that makes sense.

I was wondering what's going on
with this fucking cabin owner.

What's he doing with murder tapes
just hanging out in his VHX section?

What's he got going on?

Okay.

I apologize, resort owner.

I have clearly maligned you.

Emily: Yeah, that was somebody, that
was somebody's sex tape and then Sadako,

recorded over it with her grudge.

Well, her curse.

Wait,

Jeremy: So do we think that

Ben: That was originally four
episodes of Japanese Spider Man.

Jeremy: do we

think that she like

recorded over an existing tape or that she
delivered the tape from inside the well?

Like

Emily: Yeah, she's like, and
then she puts it in the, in the

VCR

and clacks her fingers together.

Ben: Yeah, like how
much editing did she do?

Emily: I think it, I think she just
projected the images onto the tape.

Erica: yeah, I think it was, she just, she
like had, those were all her bad thoughts.

Jeremy: just like Steven Universe.

She, her thoughts go onto
the tape when she's sleeping.

Emily: Oh, that was on, that
was a thing in Akira too, but

Ben: Yeah.

Erica: I think the fact that, The blank
videotape, or not blank Videotape has

one of those little white sleeves means
that someone left it there because the

idea that she like also projected the
little white sleeve would be too much.

Emily: yeah.

Or maybe it just

Jeremy: so the idea of her creating
celluloid is not too much, but the

idea that she would then create

Emily: It's not

celluloid, it's

Jeremy: to go around it.

Erica: Yeah.

Because I think there's like the
idea that she was like, uh, I

need a way to get these ideas out.

I guess VHS will do, it's the nineties

Ben: again,

Erica: if we're putting it in a
little special box just too far.

Ben: again.

This is why one of my favorite
movies of all time is the otherwise

unremarkable Stay Alive, which is just

literally Stay

Alive.

Yeah, literally just the ring, but what
if video games instead of videotape?

Except the ending is, now the killer
video game is a triple a release

with big marketing and GameStop.

Erica: Yeah, I, yeah.

Jeremy: truly

Erica: know what, I'm
not gonna get to Stay

Alive.

Ben: one of my favorite endings
of all time, just for everything

about what that ending implies.

That haunted house had to go to E3.

that's scary all on its own.

For the house!

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: Anyway, this movie
and not movies didn't just

Erica: Oh, but, but what if,
what if it was a video game

that people found on Newgrounds?

Emily: I think those are already cursed.

Those are absolutely already

Erica: yeah, yeah, so it's very plausible.

Like you're, you've just
watched Salad Fingers and now

you're like, oh, what's this?

Emily: that's why all those memes exist.

That's why it's so memetic,
because if we didn't show anybody

that horrible shit, we would die.

We would rot from

Ben: yeah, that is, that is a curse
we still carry with us to this day.

We have like the internet's You know,
the Elder God era of the internet.

Joe: yeah, it's true, did anyone see
this, today's episode of X Men 97 here?

Jeremy: No.

Ben: yet.

It's my reward for after this

Joe: okay I won't spoil it, but it'll
make sense if anyone's listening to this

later, why, why I had mentioned that.

Ben: It's ep it's the fourth
episode, by the way, that we're

Joe: Yeah, Steve.

Fourth episode.

Ben: Yeah, so back in the cabin,
they find Reiko's just like, her

hair, and her skeleton, and they're
like, Cool, so that should do it.

Like, that's they got it, right?

Like, yay, proper burial.

Soul put to rest, we did it.

Erica: Well it also, the time was up for

Breko.

So, you know,

Emily: we had the proof

was in the

Ben: Yes.

Reiko survives.

But, the very next day,
Ryuji's like, Ah, shoot.

Because this TV turns on, and Sadako,
you've been waiting the whole movie

for it, she climbs out of that TV,
and she scares the shit out of him.

I do love how the movie does death,
like, it's not gory, but that very,

like, the whole butt, like, the limbs
and face just utterly contorted in

pure terror is all very well done.

Erica: I've seen this movie a lot of
times and the thing that gets me every

single time is the fact that when you
see Sadako come out of the TV, you

see that all of her fingernails have
snapped off from trying to climb the well

Ben: Yes.

Well, he points that out, like,
he points, like, he finds the

fingernails on his way down.

Emily: yeah,

Ben: And then,

Jeremy: they make a big show about how,
like, fleshy they are when she comes out,

Ben: yes, uh, it's a
great it's a great detail.

And yeah, so, uh, Ryuji yeah, Ryuji
dies, and in death, honestly, we

get more emotion out of him than we
have the whole rest of the movie.

Emily: yeah.

Jeremy: really,

like, he's on, he's picked up the, like,
the phone is ringing, and he senses that

it's her on the other end, but, like,
he doesn't answer it and be like, hey,

just so you know, being killed, It's
not as if he tries to, like, run away,

really, he, stumbles around the apartment
and, Does the, horror chase thing.

Whereas like, he's like, Oh no,
this might also kill my child.

I could very easily pick up this phone and
be like, uh, be on the lookout for this.

Our child may also die.

Emily: watch out for the tv.

She comes through the tv, you
know, he could've, but I think

he was distracted and his, and

Ben: well, his ghost helps out with

Emily: that's right.

But he does because ghosts
surreal and so are demons.

Um.

Ben: psychic, so he's
got extra good ghost.

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: Which that's how it works when
you're psychic your ghost is good

You like you have a better ghost
when you're psychic in life, right?

Emily: high wisdom

Erica: the only ghosts that are seen in
the movie are people who were cursed.

So it could be that, like, being
cursed makes you extra ghosty.

Joe: Yeah.

Yeah.

Emily: this ghost, his ghost is
helpful as opposed to Tomoko, who

is like, Hey, little kid, don't you
want to watch this cool videotape?

Erica: Maybe getting cursed is just
sort of like, like an Uno reverse card

where like suddenly he stops sucking,
but like Tomoko starts sucking.

Ben: Yeah, so when Raiko goes to the
apartment to try to figure out why

she lived and Ryuji was killed She
figures out that the secret was because

she copied the videotape and made him
watch thus passing her curse on to

him thus she With the knowledge of how
to save Yoichi, she heads off to her

dad's place, implied to straight up
sacrifice her own father to save her son.

Erica: I mean, she even like
calls to ask her dad, like, Hey

dad, can you do something for me?

Jeremy: are you up for being murdered?

Save your grandson

Emily: well, I think the dad,
he can show it to somebody else.

Erica: Yeah.

He can make the choice of whether
he's, like, willing to die for his

grandson or show it to someone else.

Emily: Yeah,

Jeremy: out there in the country.

I'm sure he has a shitty
neighbor or two, you know, just

Ben: there you

go, and,

Emily: he's a nice guy too.

I don't want, I don't
want the grandpa to go.

Jeremy: he's got real

good grandpa

energy,

Erica: yeah,

he's

Ben: oh yeah,

and

Jeremy: out there.

Emily: yeah.

Ben: ring,

eh.

one of the most influential
horror movies of all time.

Joe: yeah.

Emily: And it, did we
talk about the director?

And the, this, other than, uh, the stars?

Ben: Well, we have Nanako Matsushima
as Reiko Asakawa, of course

the main man, Hiroyuki Sanada
got uh, Rikiya Otaka as Yoichi.

Yuko Takuchi as Tomoko yeah,

Emily: and director, Hideo Nakata,
and based on the book by Koji Suzuki.

Ben: yes, and of course, Rie Inou
as Sadako, the evil witch person.

Emily: Queen.

The Queen.

Ben: She did a good job
being reeeeal fucking creepy.

Emily: yes.

Joe: Mm-Hmm.

Ben: So yeah, that's Ring.

I mean it's, you know, it definitely
carries the weight of its I guess Legacy

now, it's hard to watch within that kind
of like, fresh slate, knowing nothing

about it, but it sure is a well told,
well executed, creepy as hell story.

Emily: Yeah, and Relatable in
a way as we've said with all of

our experience with Newgrounds.

But, do think that it is interesting
that the American version of the

movie makes it so it's just insanity.

Like, it's just this person's insane.

Which I think for me, you know,
worked a little bit better because

it was more mysterious, but
it's still kind of mysterious.

Like, they're.

In the in the American movie they
were less direct about how much

ESP and weird supernatural shit had
anything to do with the parents, it

was just like, They were disturbed.

Ben: No, you're right, this
is full on X Men rules.

Emily: yeah, and,

Erica: Well, I think that there's
sort of, just sort of, a difference

in, kind of, American and Japanese
sensibilities with that stuff.

Because with the Japanese stuff, they're
sort of like, okay, we have rules about

ghosts, and we understand what they are.

This is, you know, you can
add, like, little details here

and there, like videotapes.

But, like, we know how that works.

And then, that doesn't
need to be explained.

Emily: Yeah.

Erica: And they also, I feel like
there's a lot of Japanese stuff

where like, you just don't explain
things, like weird shit happens.

But uh, with the American one,
like, insanity is the explanation.

Emily: is,

Ben: movie also made liberal use of any
time the whole kind of investigation

kind of hit a wall and they couldn't
figure out how to get them where the

plot needed, just boom, psychic powers
tell them where they need to go or give

them the information they're missing.

Emily: Yeah.

Joe: yeah.

But, um, I feel like in the Japanese
version, there's a bit more of like, you

know, it feels like it's saying something
a little deeper and that there's a

little more going on in terms of like,
generational trauma sort of stuff.

And like, You can almost interpret
the ending kind of involving, like,

just because you figured out the
cause of that trauma or why it

exists, that, that doesn't mean it's
over and everything's fine, you have

to, like, there's work to do after
that and you can kind of take that.

From the ending here, whereas, like,
the American version, again, it's

all like, Everyone's just crazy!

That's kinda It's a little less Ha

Erica: Yeah, I mean,
comparing it to, like,

Ben: but it lets us demonize,
it lets us blame and demonize a

marginalized other, and that's
just how we like things in America.

Again,

Emily: that's, that's that's one
thing where, where I do prefer the

Japanese explanation is that, you
know, it's not demonizing any sort

of neurodivergence or anything like

that.

I mean, it's, there's, Yeah, it's just

Ben: look, I'll tell ya, on behalf of
people who can kill with their minds

this is a very offensive portrayal

of

Erica: heh.

Ben: bullet

havers.

Erica: yeah, going back to the
grudge, which has a similar thing,

where it's like, oh, in Japan, we
understand where ghost comes from.

Which is like, bad intentions
get kind of manifest.

I think that's, that's
like the bigger thing here.

Like, that's why it can't be insanity,
because it has to be intentional.

Emily: yes.

Ben: It kind of reminds me of how,
with vampires or zombies, the level of,

there's such an assumption of, you know
the rules, we barely have to explain it,

or if we do, we're only gonna explain,
like, why we're subverting the norm.

Erica: Yeah,

like, they get the same thing in like
Lady Snowblood, where her mother, like,

is so angry at the people that hurt their
family, and she's like, all right, I'm

gonna get pregnant and give birth to
vengeance, and my child will be vengeance.

And like, it basically gives birth to a
yokai, but you know, it's just a woman.

I think it's the same sort of thing, where
it's like, this woman is a demon, There's

sort of a thing, and I think yokai stuff,
where like people can be, or people or

creatures can become demons given time.

Emily: yes,

Erica: So I wonder how, like that
demon line, how literal it is,

Emily: Well,

there's,

Jeremy: That's

Erica: way.

Jeremy: interesting to me because I was
thinking about this in reference to like

The Grudge or House and these other things
where it's like, in a lot of Japanese

ghost stories, it seems to me at least,
I mean I could have this all wrong, it

seems like the ghost is more sort of
like a manifestation of evil and horrible

shit that happened there rather than
a particular You person haunting you.

And I guess in this case Sadako is sort
of not just a person, which is how they

kind of get around that to some extent.

It's like she is both like sort
of a demon, sort of, supernatural

beforehand, but also she's, it's also
probably the result of the fact that

her fucking dad threw her in a well

and

Ben: To me,

I kind of interpret it, yeah, I
mean, it's, yeah, it's like, even

if the original, Injustice and
the soul has been put to rest.

What now exists in this videotape
that's spreading and killing is

an echo and I mean an echo repeats
irregardless of what happens to

the original source of the noise.

Even if you, even if you
put down this original hurt,

that echo is still out there.

Erica: definitely.

Emily: and it's actually, it's, it's
incredibly, like, it predicts the spread

of information that we get now, like, how
things on the Internet are there forever.

And I think that that was sort of on the,

Ben: Are you saying
Sadako is the original Mr.

Beast?

Emily: sure.

But seriously, though, like, I think that,
like, once mass media was mass, this was

a conversation that people were having.

I mean, we watched this in Videodrome.

Which is a, is a different

Ben: Mass communication also refers
to two guys in Boston yelling at each

other from across a Dunkin Donuts.

Emily: yeah, and it is
just as complicated as, the

finding

flow.

No, no, don't.

That was funny.

Joe: Oh no!

Emily: then I picked up, We got it.

We're communicating massively,
but you're, you're in New York.

Ben: I'm sorry, I'm sorry,

Emily: it's okay.

Ben: you, I'm sorry, I, I Hey, do

Joe: ha

Emily: yeah, it was predictive,
but also going back to what Joe

said about the generational trauma.

the idea that just saying sorry and
being like, I acknowledge you is

not enough to solve the problem.

You know, you have to tell the story
and in some ways you have to, like,

telling that story is, is painful because
it's the truth and, the truth hurts.

Ben: you think

she filed that news report?

You think like she got to be on the
news and be like, Hey, I figured out

what's going on with that murder video.

Emily: I don't think so.

I mean, that's a whole different, I'm
sure that that's brought up in different,

like, versions of the, of, and sequels
of the movie where they're like, oh,

it's on TV and all this kind of shit.

And like, you see a whole
bunch of people see it.

I mean, that's also like, Videodrome and
Snow Crash and all these kind of things

where you have this meme that everybody
sees and then it just fucks them up.

Either by cursing them or just making,
turning them into making their head

explode like in Max Headroom or whatever.

Ben: If you want an example of that
in comic form memetic did a great job

with that made really great use of that
horror device, the idea of just like this

image that once you see it, that's it.

Emily: Yeah.

Erica: That was done in the second
book, where, like, the paper never

got published because the journalist
dies, like, Reiko or something.

Boy, Reiko, in the book, uh, dies
immediately, but then, like, they find

that document and it's important to
figure it out, and then you find out at

the end, someone's gonna use it to make
a movie, and that movie is Ringu 1998,

and so it's like, oh, but
that movie is gonna curse you,

because now you've seen it.

Emily: God.

I mean, some movies I do feel cursed by.

I did watch Old.

But,

that

Joe: You think that's bad?

I watched Mars Needs Moms the other day.

Ben: Oh no.

Emily: Did you make the choice?

Or were you

Joe: the choice, yeah.

Ha ha ha!

I was with a friend and
we were like, let's do it.

Let's

just

Jeremy: shit's haunted.

Erica: I will defend the cave scene
in Old, because that was insane.

That is the one

Emily: was creepy.

Ben: Except, all I could think was, oh,
they're doing bonitis from Futurama.

Emily: That's true, but that's charming in

Joe: yeah.

Ben: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a very well done effect.

I'll give the, I'll give it that for sure.

But yeah, no, again, Ring, do we
want to dive into kind of the themes

and how it like, what was this
movie about and how it handled?

the various issues we
like to talk about on the

So again, the one thing that this movie
definitely explores is, it is interesting.

Again, we're in the nineties.

We're now in that last decade,
and we're exploring, you know,

a single, employed mother,

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: and not always treated the mo
that status not always presented the

most sympathetically, it seemed like?

I don't know, I'm not sure, exactly.

Erica: I feel like she and her son had
a pretty loving relationship and it was

one of those things where like he sort
of understood how much she had to work.

Joe: Yeah.

Erica: Which I think was set up in
contrast to the other family that

created Sadako and, you know, that had
the wayward father who killed them all.

Emily: Yeah, yeah.

Well, and I think with Reiko,
she, especially like, Yokochi

knew, he knew what was going on.

He knew about ghosts.

He knew about his dad.

You know, there was
nothing that he was, really

Ben: Yeah, he's him and his dad
are having, like, fuckin full

on The Shining conversations.

Emily: yeah.

The only thing that that kid had
any issue with was, like, socially

accepted behavior, you know?

Ben: Also, his cousin died, so that

wasn't fun.

Joe: That doesn't help.

No,

but

Ben: understandable, though.

Oh.

Erica: It's also, it seems like his
cousin led him to the bedroom, so it

was one of those things where it's
like, oh, you shouldn't be here, but

like, the person whose bedroom it
is took him there, so like, I don't

even know that he did anything wrong.

Emily: Yeah, I don't
think he did either, and I

Ben: Oh yeah, no, he was, oh
yeah, absolutely, like, he

was being ghost manipulated.

Ghost

Joe: Yeah.

But I think another element here
when, when you're talking about,

feminism in a movie is also there.

There are a lot of, Women in
this movie that get screen time,

you see different perspectives.

You see them from, know, you, you get
sort of a full picture in a way that

you don't in a lot of movies that
sort of minimalize women, or there's

only like a couple of women with
speaking roles or things like that.

so I feel like that adds
to it if you consider this

like a feminist movie or not.

Emily: I think that it's not not
feminist, and I think there is

certainly feminist elements to it.

You know, the story itself, I think
there is certain significance to the fact

that we have a woman and her daughter,
and then, another, a mother who is the

protagonist trying to preserve her child,
and, you know, in the case of Sadako's

mom, she committed suicide, and so she,
or I should say she died by suicide.

And that, was, a little bit
further than, like, I don't know.

I don't know if, like, the movie
is trying to cast judgment on that.

Whereas Reiko is trying to do something
for her kid and this woman, but it's

also, I think that is not something
that is really meant to be read into

other than the fact that these people
were, Exploited and misunderstood

because of the supernatural element

Erica: I don't think we're
meant to judge her harshly for

throwing herself in a volcano.

I think it's more like, oh, hey,
look at this asshole who manipulated

her and then killed her child

Emily: yeah.

I

think it's more about that, just the
general trauma rather than her decision.

Ben: If anything, the
volcano's the bad guy.

Emily: the volcano was the dad.

Jeremy: I do

feel

like, there is something of a like cycles
of violence kind of discussion there,

like, um, the ways in which, you know,
we see this, the stuff that's playing out

for this family in the past and how it's
playing out in the present with them.

And, you know, this dad who is, uh, he's
certainly not evil in the way that Dr.

Dad from the past is, but he is
still like absent for the most part.

Right.

Joe: Yeah.

Jeremy: He's making an attempt to save
his kid to save his I guess wife still

is he, she does say that she's his wife.

I don't know if it was supposed to

Erica: only to gain access
to his apartment though.

Emily: Yeah,

Joe: Right.

Emily: where he died.

Yeah.

And he does help.

Postmortem.

So, you

Erica: I honestly feel like he does
more to help her than the child.

I think he's more invested
in her than their kid.

Like, he never even talks to the kid.

Like, they, he stands there
until the kid runs away and

that's their only interaction.

Jeremy: I feel like

there's a whole nother movie that explains

Ben: they were having psychic

Jeremy: here.

Emily: yeah.

I also think that there's another movie
going on with the dad and the kid.

Like there's, there's some fucking

Jeremy: I mean, it definitely feels like.

Ben: They made

Jeremy: They both have, they
both have these psychic issues.

And the dad, I don't know if it's that
he is, he sees himself reflected in

the kid, or he's ashamed of himself
for having given this, ability,

whatever, to the kid, um, that he
feels like he can't be around him.

Because he definitely like, somebody
said earlier that he's like the worst

ex husband, but I feel like there's
like a good five to six out of 10

ex husbands that just wouldn't have
picked up the phone in this movie.

She

Joe: Yeah.

Yeah.

Erica: uh,

Joe: hmm.

Erica: the sort of because they
immediately made the big spiral after

this based on the second book, I feel
like they have to be thinking about that.

And I will say that that story
really just, is basically

like, oh, Ryuji, he sucks.

He sucks a lot.

And like, he doesn't
care that his kid's dead.

He's actually kind of happy about it.

He's like, I shouldn't be having kids.

This is for the best.

Emily: Fuck.

Erica: since they made that other
movie right away, I assume that's

the version that they're going with.

Ben: Isn't that the one that
they decided like, just doesn't

count and is wiped out by Ring 2?

Erica: Yeah, no, it's totally wiped out.

Ben: Okay.

Erica: It's also like, the book's
a lot weirder, and the movie scales

it back in a way that's like, oh,
now it's just not interesting.

Ben: That's the worst of both worlds.

Erica: Yeah.

Joe: Yeah.

Emily: yeah.

Erica: No, it was the Doc Oberths.

Ben: Yeah, so this movie's
definitely I mean, it's all, like,

it's always interesting, you know.

We This is a pretty fairly
positive depiction of Divorced

spouses still working together
and atypical living situation, so.

Definitely tip of the hat
to the movie for that.

Emily: yeah,

Erica: Yeah, I know.

I think it does a good job of like,
making it feel like they had a

relationship, they're just not gonna talk
about it, but they have things to do.

And it's, it just feels respectful in
a way that so many movies would like,

they would have to like, break stuff up.

That just, you wouldn't be bringing up
if you were about to be ghost touched

to death in a few days, you know?

Like, no one cares about like,
who did the laundry when.

Emily: yeah,

Ben: It's good for that,
will they, won't they?

Especially if you have actors, good
actors with chemistry, which, guess what?

These two are good, and they
absolutely have chemistry.

Emily: Yeah,

It's subtle, but so is
everything else in the movie.

So,

Ben: Except when Reiko just starts,
being tired of bucket time, and

just starts screaming for a while.

Emily: Yeah, well, I'm sure
it smells like shit down

Ben: Also, that was like, she was
just doing nothing but lifting buckets

for like, at least like, six hours.

Joe: It's crazy she did
it as long as she did.

Ben: Honestly, Right?

Right?

Like, they should've
been, like, taking shifts.

Emily: yeah,

Erica: I can also see not wanting
to be in the corpse water.

If, like, if you know there's a corpse
in there, it's like, you know what?

I will keep lifting buckets.

Emily: Yeah, it's a loose,
loose situation, honestly.

Like, that whole situation was bad, and
then the fact that she, but she was,

when, once she was desperate, she went
down there and she's like, you know

what, fuck, I'm just gonna go all in.

you know, might as well be drinking the
corpse water, I'm just gonna go and like,

feel around in this opaque water and
she deserves a Medal of Honor for that,

because,

Erica: when she's in the corpse water
and finds the skeleton and is, like,

holding it like a baby, there's a bit
where she starts to, like, sink into it

some, and it's just her, like, going,
like, leading into the hug, but I thought

she was gonna, like, Put her head under
and I was so freaked out like even

though I had seen it I was like, oh no.

Oh, no, don't get your
mouth in the corpse water.

Ben: Nope.

Nope.

Joe: yeah,

Emily: I mean, she did, she did
faint a lot, but she was also

dealing with ghosts, so, you know,
she gets a pass for that, like,

Joe: It's a pretty stressful situation.

Yeah.

That's

Ben: Yeah.

Emily: she was not
necessarily a damsel, in this

situation.

Jeremy: a little bit.

Emily: Yeah, she, she was just, she was
too powerful for, she didn't understand

her own power especially like, suddenly
she got like, proximity ESP off of Ryuji,

cause he's like, whenever he was doing
ESP shit and she'd be like, Oh, fuck.

I'm seeing the shit happen.

Oh God.

Well, at least he doesn't
have to tell me about it.

Jeremy: was all like touch related.

Anytime she'd touch anything that
had something to do with with

Sadako, she'd be like, Oh, whoa,

Emily: Yeah.

I think that's, that was also Sadako.

I think that was, that Sadako
was projecting a little

bit.

Erica: it's a little bit of the curse

Emily: Yeah

Jeremy: I will say like the plus
over the American one, as we talked

about is that they don't there's
no like negative projection onto

mental disability in this movie.

Like she is either straight up
evil or more likely just like.

evil as a result of being murdered.

Like, she's, she's justifiably
angry about her untimely end.

Emily: And she's a, she is probably a
literal demon, there are like little

literal demons from hell involved.

Jeremy: yeah.

I don't think there's a whole lot to
say about any, any sort of like racial

or social justice stuff in here.

I mean, we do get some,
you know, country folk.

Emily: There,

Jeremy: it gets.

Joe: yeah.

Ben: yeah.

I guess

Emily: since, we did talk about the,
uh, the candy and Hocus Pocus, I

am obligated to mention some of the
figurines in the background of this film.

Erica: Oh

Emily: There were some, when she was
looking at the picture on top of, it might

have been a TV, I'm not sure, but she's
looking at a picture of her and her son.

And next to those photos, there
were some really weird little,

like, minstrel y figurines.

Yeah.

And I don't know what those are supposed
to be or what they're referring to,

but knowing what I do about, how long
it has taken, Japanese pop culture to

pick up how, blackface is bad you know.

Erica: Sure

Emily: Yeah, I will warn people that
that's in there, it's only in there for

like a second, and I'm not blaming the
movie, I don't think anybody in this movie

is racist or anything like that, as far as
I know, but, as long as we can talk about

Candy and Hocus Pocus, I can talk about

Ben: Yes.

Further, we don't know that
anybody's not, not racist, though.

I mean, we, we, who knows?

Like

Emily: yeah.

Ben: Everyone exists on a
spectrum of racial animus.

No, they don't.

Don't,

Joe: Alright, what's the next thing?

What's the

Erica: It was the

Jeremy: I feel like it
doesn't really deal with

any, we don't really get anything in the
LGBTQIA plus People in themes category.

Emily: Those girls do wrestle
a lot in that opening, though.

Holy shit, do they wrestle.

Erica: That's true.

Emily: They get in there.

Jeremy: aggressive tickling

Erica: Yeah, it's,

it is one of those things where
I think that is just more normal.

Ben: I think that's what, uh, TV Tropes
calls the Romantic 2 Girl Friendship.

Emily: Yeah, but it's also,
like, friendships, you know.

I just thought it was funny that
it was so, like, there was a lot

of that, especially because of the
voyeuristic cinematography there.

It's It did feel a little bit more
suggestive, but I think it was just

like, I mean, whatever you want out of
it I'm not gonna go as far as to say

that they bury their gays because these
are the two first people, or one of

these is, yeah, it's not quite that.

Ben: No, this is not an It Chapter 2

situation.

Joe: this is pretty, I would
say just like, neutral,

nothing negative, nothing
positive on that, it's just, it's

Erica: it never comes up.

Emily: Yeah.

Erica: You just don't get a chance.

Emily: Gals are pals, and
that's just part of life.

Ben: I mean, I think, if we're trying to
find things that are like, what things

are an analog for, I think there's more
credence to psychic powers being used as

a metaphor for neurodivergence going on.

Emily: Yeah, or generational trauma.

You know, it is an external
thing, it's not, you know, a

genetic thing so much it is, is

Erica: in this at least?

Ben: think it's amazing.

I took Ryuji and Yoichi's, psychic
powers to be a little more exploring

neurodivergence aspects while Sadako was
more, you know, again, that represent,

that embodiment of trauma and abuse.

Emily: Yeah that's a very good point.

Because, you know, I think about,
when I think about psychic powers I

just think of Sadako, but then, yeah.

The Ryuji thing was very subtle.

Compared to that, but that also, that
also read as a mutual understanding

and also especially with the
kid's sort of discomfort in social

situations and his sort of cognitive
dissonance about social protocol.

Ben: Yeah, absolutely.

Emily: yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Do we feel like this movie interacts in
any meaningful way with class at all?

Joe: Almost, I think?

Like, it feels like they almost,
like, there's elements that you

could kind of, Squint a bit, I think
and see, but I don't, it wasn't

that prevalent, I don't think.

Erica: I think the closest we have
is like the big city doctor coming

into these psychic farm people.

Ben: Yeah.

Yeah.

That, yeah.

But,

Emily: and you have the people, you
know, that these the contrast of

the multimedia journalism folks, and
then these people on this island.

Who are fishermen who have
a little bit more of a.

Metaphorical way of, of seeing.

Ben: I mean, I guess there's kind
of an inherent classism in the

curse and that it can only affect
people rich enough to own VCRs.

Erica: that's true.

This thing was written in 1991.

Emily: Yeah.

Erica: Like that.

That was not everybody.

Emily: Yeah, that's very true.

And also people with the ability
to copy tapes, like with two VCRs.

Again, AV Club kids, save your life from

Ben: again, necessary to have a
reporter protagonist not just have a

reason to do investigations, but to
have access to high end AV equipment.

Erica: Yeah, I think that's why literally
your main characters are a reporter and

a guy who has access to a university.

Emily: Yeah,

Joe: Yep.

Jeremy: Yeah, I will say I

appreciate, as compared to like, a lot
of protagonists of this sort in American

film, like she lives in a fairly small
apartment, like a reasonable, it's

reasonably nice, but it's feels lived
in and feels the right size for them.

Erica: I

would say in the 90s still we
were, we still had location

scouts that were finding real
apartments as opposed to whatever

the fuck they're doing these days.

Ben: yeah,

I mean, I don't know.

I'm certainly not going to speak to the
intricities of Japanese urban housing

policy because that is not something I
know anything about, but I definitely

recognize their apartment complex from
like a few dozen different anime, I think.

Emily: oh yeah, I mean it's a very
general like layout for, for Tokyo or for

Erica: I think depending on whether
she is in Tokyo or not will tell

us if she's rich because if she
is in Tokyo she's incredibly rich.

If she's not in Tokyo she's
living a very modest life.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: there you go.

Yeah I, I think it's pretty safe to
say, but would you, would everybody

recommend, People Check Out Ring?

Or Ringu?

Emily: Absolutely.

Erica: yeah,

Joe: Yes.

Ben: Yeah.

Erica: if you want to be aware
of the history of the past

20 years of horror films,

Emily: Yes.

it's

important

Ben: fucking

fucking right?

Oh my

Emily: yeah.

Also, it's called Ring
because of the cycle.

But it has nothing to do with Faulkner.

So, that's important because in
the American movie, they make this

visual reference of the top of
the lid of the well being closed.

And that's what you see before you
die, is the same thing that Sadako

saw before she was trapped in the
well, or Samara, or whatever it was.

This movie, the Ringu, is just
things going around, like a circle,

Jeremy: I mean, you do see

the, like, circle of the open well
at the beginning of the tape, like,

you see the sky through the well.

They don't ever really point that out,
but, like, That's how the tape starts,

is you seeing from her perspective.

Erica: but I think the reason why,
oh, I think the reason why the movie

and book are called Ringu, yeah,
the English word, is also to bring

in like the phone calls as well.

And like, there's just a few
things where in English that

works, but in Japanese it wouldn't.

Emily: Yes.

Ben: Good call.

Emily: For sure.

That's also, yeah, very, I didn't
even think of that, but that's

Ben: Yeah, everyone's making a big
ass deal about this goddamn eclipse.

I'm just gonna go inside a
fuckin well, they're gonna put

a lid on it, I'm like, boom!

Made

my

Emily: wear special glasses!

Ben: own eclipse!

Emily: Yeah, yeah

Jeremy: Speaking of making

Ben: And now I got my
own free well, ha ha ha!

Emily: it's good to have free will.

Jeremy: speaking of free will, uh, what
do you guys want to recommend from this?

Erica, did you have a
recommendation for people?

Erica: Based on the ring,

Jeremy: Based on anything, you
can go Ring, you can go, you can

go Wild, Offbeat if you want.

Erica: Oh man.

Gimme a second.

I forgot.

This is a thing.

Jeremy: Okay, Joe, what about you?

Joe: Well, one thing that popped
to mind with a, like a horror movie

that's like only a horror movie
for really a few minutes or so that

like has pace that's ramping up, the
audition definitely comes to mind.

Jeremy: That's coming up, we're

talking about that soon.

Ben: Yes.

Joe: people haven't seen something
like, Psycho, just in terms of like,

movies that have really iconic stuff
in it that you all know by heart,

but maybe you haven't seen it yet.

Like, definitely something like that.

And then this is like
completely outta left field.

'cause I watched it recently.

I finally watched the two Jakes the
other week and it's really good.

I didn't

Jeremy: to Chinatown for people who

Joe: Yeah.

Directed by Jack Nicholson.

It is one of three movies that
Jack Nicholson has directed and

it,

Jeremy: Harvey Keitel.

Joe: yeah, as the other Jake.

It's crazy.

It's a very good, like, like, it's
definitely better than I was anticipating.

I probably would have watched it sooner.

It's more of a sequel, like
it's more of a direct sequel to

Chinatown than I was anticipating.

And it's pretty good.

So yeah,

Jeremy: Yeah, definitely
worth checking out.

Not nearly as iconic as
Chinatown for some reason, but

Joe: yeah, but it's good.

It's a good movie.

Ben: I will

Erica: I figured I would stick to
ones that were part of the, uh, this

era of Japanese horror films that
were then given American adaptations.

I'm gonna go with Pulse in 2001,
not the 2006 one, which is not

very good in the American 2006 one.

But yeah, we have.

We have ghosts, we have the internet,
we have a weird, slow building

mystery, and it's just a weird,
weird movie about alienation.

Jeremy: yeah, I, I don't
remember a ton about Pulse.

I know I watched it.

I just remember it being
incredibly depressing.

Like, it's, it's like, moderately
scary, incredibly depressing.

Erica: Yeah, I think it's got a couple
more, like, ghost kills, or creepy

ghost kills, that you see than The
Ring does, like, it's, it basically,

by the end of the movie, like, almost
everyone's dead, like, in the world.

But yeah, It does a few more
scares, but it really ramps up

the, like, everyone's sad and
alienated from each other part of it.

Jeremy: Yeah, it's, it's much
more, I feel like, Into the like

internet side of things of like,
people being isolated and alone.

And I, if I remember correctly,
it sort of carries on this

tradition of static ghosts,

Erica: Yeah, yeah, it's amazing because
it's like, it comes out, 2001, so it's

like right on the heels of The Ring.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: fantastic.

What about you, Ben?

What have you got?

Ben: Yeah, so, I'm gonna move away
from the horror direction, but stay

in the Hiroyuki Sonata direction.

So I haven't seen it yet, it is still on
my to watch list, but I have heard nothing

but absolutely phenomenal things about
Shogun that he is the main star of, so

that has to be my main recommendation.

Unless I watch it and it's
bad, in which case, sorry, but

it is getting really great.

I hear nothing but great things, so I'm
gonna feel good about going with Shogun.

Jeremy: Sounds good.

Emily: Yeah, for sure.

Jeremy: What about you, Emily?

What have you got?

Emily: I've mentioned The Ring a bunch
of times, which is definitely worth

a watch, but I, Uzumaki, the comic.

By Junji Ito came out earlier that, um,
I think it was contemporary with the

book, Ringu, but Uzumaki is definitely
kind of the same genre of horror, a

little, I mean, definitely more over the
top in terms of monsters and cool shit

happening and weird, it's one of his,
like, most iconic works, but it's also, In

my humble opinion, one of his best ones.

So, highly recommend Uzumaki and
if you want to watch something that

makes you feel like you're watching
the movie from the ring there's

a lot of really weird movies.

Watch a Kenneth Onger movie
or maybe, uh, Brother's Quake.

Yeah, don't watch that.

I mean, you can if you want,

Jeremy: mean, it really has
that same feeling as like

watching a cursed bit of film.

Emily: yes, it is very cursed
don't go on Newgrounds, but you can

look up Neil Cicerega, he's fine.

I think I recommended
Spirit Phone recently, but

Erica: Yeah, he's who I'd go to for a VCR.

It's like, that dude certainly has one.

Emily: oh

yeah,

Erica: one.

Emily: and he knows all
about internet curses.

Erica: That's

Emily: Like, I think he is an internet
curse, like, I think that if there was

a curse coming out of the internet,
like, Neil Cicerega would, like,

climb backwards out of my computer.

And then I would just be so ecstatic
and then I'm like, oh no, I'm choking

on like a Pee Wee Herman doll.

anyway.

Sorry,

Jeremy: Yeah, I was gonna say

Ben: Yeah, we tend to get there
sooner or later in the episode.

Jeremy: Yeah, so, uh, as for me, I, um,
I, I flew back and forth to San Francisco

this weekend, so I watched four movies,
and I really hardcore hit my dad movie

stride in watching movies on the plane I
watched the, the truly horrible No Hard

Feelings I watched the beautiful but
kind of mediocre Iron Claw, uh, I watched

Top Gun Maverick, which is a pretty
dad of me, but the one that I like came

home and was ranting and raving about.

For anybody who hasn't seen it, is
1917, which is as dad as it gets,

Ben: Yeah, you're really, you're
really leaning into your dad

Jeremy: It is a movie about World War I.

But it is, is distracted by Sam Mendez.

And it's the craziest fucking thing
to watch, because like, it's, the

whole 2 hours and 20 minutes of this
movie is done in about, like, between

5 and 8 shots, I'm pretty sure.

Because there is some insane camera
work, some like, following across

this like, hellscape of World War I.

It's basically just about this guy
who like his commanding officer comes

to him and he's like, hey, I need you
to pick one friend and your job is

to go like, Get to go across no man's
land and get to where your brother's

battalion is before they walk right
into this ambush, because your brother's

battalion and this one other battalion
are about to walk into a German ambush.

And if somebody doesn't get there to
like warn them, everybody's going to die.

And so like, they've
got like a day to do it.

So it just like straight up follows
them pretty much real time throughout

the The whole thing, there's like
a break when, you know, somebody

gets knocked unconscious and then
it comes back later that day.

But it's like done in real time.

There's these incredible like
follow shots through this.

It has to have been like
intricately put together.

I mean, there's

Erica: I haven't seen it, but I've
seen stuff talking about how they

made it and yeah, it's, it's basically
like you have an insane, incredibly

intricate storyboard that everyone has
to, like, rehearse over and over again.

Jeremy: yeah, there's, there's like
a section that they showed when they

talked about it when it won an Oscar,
uh, where like, he is trying to get to,

like, the commander who's down this,
like, line that's getting ready to

run out, uh, and attack the Germans.

And like, He can't get through the
bunkers, so he goes over the top and

runs alongside the bunker as all these
guys are running by to attack, so there's

like thousands of extras in this shot,
as like the camera is just flying down

the battlefield following him, and
there's a literal, like, there's a war

going on in the background, and it's
just like, I'm not a huge war movie

guy, but, like, you can't take your
eyes off of it because it's just so,

like, incredibly well put together.

And it's, one of those movies that I
came away from just being like, I don't

know how the fuck they did any of this.

Like, it's, it's insane.

I don't know how you orchestrate
a scene that takes an hour.

Like, I don't know how you do that.

That involves, like a fuckin biplane
wrecking into a barn and then, the

fallout from that, it's, it's crazy.

Yeah, it's, it's really like, as
just a piece of cinema, it'll just

leave you going, like What the fuck?

Like, how?

How do you do it?

Yeah, that's my beginning
of my dad era of cinema now.

I'm sure I'll be watching
Dunkirk by the end of the week.

With that, I think that
wraps it up for us.

Erika, can you let people know
where they can find you online

and about what you're up to now?

Erica: Yeah.

Uh, well you can find me
on pretty much anything.

Blue Sky, Tumblr Instagram, Patreon at
Threadless, even at Erika fails on Blue

Sky is at Erika fails dot b Sky Social.

I, last year, had two books come out.

One is Danger and Other
Unknown Risks with Brian North.

The other is Parasocial with Alex McCampy.

And at the end, when does this come out?

Jeremy: This will be, good lord, uh, May.

Erica: Okay, well, I will have just
had a Harley Quinn 40 page special

come out since the end of April.

That comes out.

You

Ben: Congratulations on that.

That's

Joe: Awesome.

Jeremy: That's

Emily: just, apparently I wasn't following
you on Instagram, so I have repaired.

Erica: post a ton there?

Emily: But now I

know that it's there.

Jeremy: you.

Ben: And Joe, where can
people find you and your work?

Joe: Uh, you can find me on, Twitter and
BlueSky, uh, at Joe Corallo, J O E C O R

A L L O, or on Instagram at CoralloJoe.

And then coming up, my debut YA graphic
novel King Arthur and the Knights of

Justice over at Maverick, uh, will
be out by the time this episode airs,

because it should be out April 24th.

So, uh, you can go get it
right after listening to this.

So yeah, so excited about that.

And also my DC debut in it
with a story in DC pride.

Rachel Pollack tribute is out on June 4th.

Emily: Nice.

Erica: Awesome.

Ben: Amazing.

Joe: you.

Thank you.

Jeremy: Fantastic.

Emily, can you let people know, uh, what
you're up to, where they can find you?

Emily: Mega moth.net.

Also mega Moth on blue sky.

The Twitters the Tumblers mega
underscore moth on Instagram

and various other places.

I'm also on Patreon, mega Moth.

That's me.

Moth.

Jeremy: Awesome.

And, uh, Ben, what about you?

Ben: Uh, you can find me on websites
and socials at BenKahnComics, except

for Twitter where I'm BenTheKahn.

And, uh, yeah, make sure to check out,
CaptainLaserHawk first season's out on

Netflix, and the manga from Tokyopop
that I wrote is out in stores now.

Joe: Awesome.

Ben: Thank you.

Jeremy: Fantastic.

Ben: thank you.

Erica: Yeah.

Jeremy: as for me, you
can find me on my website.

It's just JeremyWhitley.

com.

You can find me at, uh, Twitter
and Instagram at JRome58 or Blue

Sky and Tumblr, Jeremy Whitley.

You can pre order right now Navigating
With You, the romance comic I

have coming out through Maverick
as well, uh, later this summer.

And, uh, you can, uh, come see
me at all the freaking dozen

of conventions I'm doing.

So, just after this comes out, I'll be
at MomoCon, I'll be at ALA in San Diego.

We'll be all sorts of places.

I'll be sure to let you know
about those as they get announced.

That's it for us today.

Thank you so much to Erica
and Joe for joining us.

Guys, this was a ball.

I hope you guys don't die in seven days.

That's all.

Ben: Yeah.

Joe: Thanks.

Same to everyone.

I'll extend that to everyone.

Ben: I hope you keep living
past those seven days,

Joe: Yum.

Jeremy: in seven days you
really start to live, you know?

Emily: Love seven days.

Jeremy: just really embrace it.

Emily: Yeah,

Jeremy: Thank you so much.

Thank you to all, as
always, to Ben and Emily.

Thank you to you all for listening.

And until next time, stay horrified.