Should You Stay With One Company Your Whole Career?

Hot Takes Episode 39 features Jim, Bill, Stefphon Walton, and Kevin Oakley for a conversation about building a long and successful career with one company. Stefphon spent 41 years with IBM, while Kevin spent 23 years with HP, giving them a unique perspective on company loyalty, career growth, and how the workplace has changed over the years.

They share how they got started, why they chose to stay with their companies, and how they continued to stay relevant as their industries changed. The conversation covers reinventing yourself, building strong professional relationships, proving your value, and developing the interpersonal skills that can help you succeed in any career.

The group also talks about the benefits and challenges of staying with one company, difficult moments at work, international opportunities, retirement, and the mental adjustment that comes with no longer receiving a regular paycheck. Stefphon and Kevin also reflect on work life balance, family, travel, and the importance of leaving a career on your own terms.

The episode closes with their hot takes on hard work, learning new things, cultivating relationships, helping others, and making time to experience life outside of work.

00:00 Welcome to Hot Takes
02:00 Two careers with one company
06:00 How their careers began
15:00 Is company loyalty still important?
18:00 Reinventing yourself as businesses change
22:00 Handling difficult moments at work
26:00 Staying valuable and relevant
30:00 Building professional relationships
38:00 The benefits of staying with one company
42:00 Deciding when it is time to retire
47:00 The psychological adjustment to retirement
51:00 Career regrets and lessons learned
53:00 Their hot takes on career success
56:00 Work life balance and travel
59:00 The value of company loyalty

Creators and Guests

Host

Bill LuMaye

Talk Host WPTF and Voice Over Talent

Host

Jim Baker

Author of "The Adventure Begins When The Plan Falls Apart" Converting a Crisis into Company Success, Jim is a husband and father of 4, Baker has spent the last 30 years in the business world as an entrepreneur, investor, and advisor. He had a successful exit in 2014 after owning and managing a CRO and functional services company, Ockham, specializing in Oncology. During that time prior to exit, Baker grew ASG and then Ockham both organically and through M&A. Over time Baker has experience in acquiring and selling companies, working with investment bankers, private equity, and mezzanine debt funding. In addition, has vast experience in business branding and managing and leading people. After the sale to Chiltern International, Baker started Sumus Development Group, an advisory business focused on operational excellence, exit strategy and marketing. In addition, Baker is an active investor in the business community.

Guest

Kevin Oakley

Retired from Hewlett-Packard

Guest

Stephfon Walton, MBA, PMP

 Recently retired from IBM

What is Hot Takes, Presented by Sumus?

Hot Takes with Jim Baker is where real-world business experience meets honest conversation with Host, Bill LuMaye.

Hosted by entrepreneur, advisor, investor, and CEO Jim Baker, this podcast explores the challenges leaders face every day—from raising capital and managing growth to hiring, firing, sales, culture, leadership, acquisitions, and long-term value creation.

Through the Hot Takes series, Jim sits down with business owners, executives, investors, and industry leaders to discuss timely issues shaping today’s business landscape. These candid conversations offer practical insights, hard-earned lessons, and perspectives you won’t find in a textbook.

The podcast also features the Wisdom Series, in which Jim and Bill interview accomplished guests whose decades of experience offer timeless lessons on business, leadership, success, failure, and life.

Whether you’re a CEO, entrepreneur, business owner, executive, or aspiring leader, Hot Takes with Jim Baker delivers actionable insights to help you build stronger organizations, create greater value, and lead with confidence.

Presented by Sumus Development Group, LLC. Helping organizations enhance value, strengthen leadership, and prepare for what’s next.

39 - Hot Takes
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Bill: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, and welcome to yet another Hot Takes, brought to you by Sunet.

And of course, our good friend Jim Baker is with us. And Jim, it's always good to see you. What do you think of my hair today?

Jim: How startled do you need to- Looks like you need to go to the barber shop ... suck your head in? It looks good. Oh, it did. It looks good. You doing all right?

Bill: Yeah, I'm doing good. Yeah.

I'm doing good. I know today you have a couple of guests, and I, And you met 'em before we work out.

Jim: Yeah, yeah.

Bill: And I'm feeling a little insecure right now- Yeah ... because they're all looking really, [00:01:00] really good.

Jim: Yeah.

Bill: What are we talking about today?

Jim: Well, maybe you should join us on, um- ... Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays.

Bill: Okay. I'll, I'll put that on my calendar. It

Jim: used to be five days a week. No kidding. We used to play basketball in between. And Stefan, I think, still plays a little bit, maybe once a year, and Kevin and I retired a few years ago. Um, Kevin still thinks he can shoot. I don't know. But, you know, I know I can't do anything, so I'll leave it at that.

Bill: Oh, that's great.

Jim: Well- Yeah, so what's cool about the guests today, unlike others that we've had in the past, is I call these... They're great friends, but they're also unique in the world today because they've spent all of their careers with basically one company, and that is obviously highly unusual these days.

You see, in my past company, we'd hire people, and they would be jumping every, you know, two to four years. Um, and you know, this day and age too, if you look at a typical LinkedIn profile, you know, there's a lot of careers, um, a lot of companies rather that they've worked with, um, over time. And these two, um, were wildly successful with [00:02:00] their company.

So I thought it'd be kind of cool to look at business and careers in a little different way and get their stories.

Bill: Oh, yeah. I'm excited to hear about it. I know when I went through the same thing, it was almost a goal that you wanted to find a company and, and live your working career with that company.

So, well, without further ado, how, how should we start? Do you want to introduce them?

Jim: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we got Stefan Walton- Mm ... Who recently retired from IBM. And then we have Kevin Oakley, who retired from Hewlett-Packard about a year and a half ago or so, and- Actually,

Kevin Oakley: 23.

Jim: 23? Wow. Yeah. So three years ago.

Three, yeah. And, took another job- Mm-hmm ... I think for a period of time. Um, but he doesn't work all the time. He does like to have his fun. Right. And Stefan's kind of like me, we travel a lot. Mm-hmm. And, um, his wife also retired from IBM as well. So, um, yeah, Stefan- Yeah ... why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and, you know- Yeah, yeah

how you, how you got where you were.

Stephfon Walton: First of all, Bill, Jim, thanks for having me, and appreciate spending some time outside of the gym with [00:03:00] Jim and and Kevin. And yeah, as Jim said, I've spent my full career at IBM. I grew up in a little small town in Southwest Louisiana, right next to the Texas border.

And when I say small town, really small town. One light, you know, maybe. It's grown a little bit nowadays. A little bit north of Lake Charles, Louisiana. Really close to, um again, the Texas border. Um spent my career there. I mean, growing up there. Went to college in Louisiana, Southern University.

Um, athletics and, and, and education were paramount to me growing up, as is most kids in those small towns. You either were smart, or you worked on a farm, or you played sports. And so I, I did a little bit of all of those.

Bill: Um,

Stephfon Walton: went and graduated in electrical engineering from Southern University and started my career in IBM in 1984.

So long, long, long, long, long time ago. Um, and [00:04:00] so yeah. That's, that's it in a nutshell, and we'll probably get a little bit- Sure ... more about what we- Yeah ... what about a little bit further on in the, in the cast.

Kevin Oakley: Yep. Thanks for having me, Jim. Stefan, good to see you. And so I... The way that I ended up where I was is, um, I grew up in rural North Carolina, actually on a tobacco farm.

I'm proud of that background 'cause I had to work hard growing up. But I had a friend that relocated to Atlanta, Georgia in 1988 for graduate school at Emory University, and I helped him move. We were best buddies. And when we were down there helping him move, I told him that I was gonna bring my stuff back with me because I w- at that point, I'd never lived anywhere outside of North Carolina, being a native.

And so January of '89, I moved down to Atlanta, and I signed up with temp agencies, okay? So I was never a sought-out student like like [00:05:00] Stefan was and probably like Jim was. Um, but I took a four-day assignment at IBM, and I remember on that Thursday which was supposed to be my last day, I remember the guy calling me into the office and telling me and giving me all these projects he had coming up, and his name was Ron Wishman from Chicago.

And, um, and he was telling me all this. I'm like, "Ron, t- today's my last day. I, I'm, I'm done after today." And he's like, "Oh, no, no, no. We wanna keep you, keep you on longer." And this is with IBM. And so I basically parlayed that four-day temp assignment into a career of tech sales that culminated for me, um, with getting an offer letter in West Yellowstone, Montana during Y2K.

So during Y2K, everybody's, like, [00:06:00] worried about planes falling out of the air and all that. So me and a buddy of mine just went to West Yellowstone, Montana and and did snowmobiling out in Yellowstone National Park, and I got my offer letter out there, and it came in via fax machine. So I started with HP 10 days later and lasted 23 years with them.

Bill: You know, I, a lot of people when I was growing up were looking for jobs where... And, and a lot of times- Mm-hmm ... fathers would introduce them to the job. It was a kind of a nepotism thing, and they'd stay there their whole life. If I could, was there a moment for either one of you when you walked through a door or something where you said, "Yeah, I'm not moving.

I like this place"? Or did time just go by?

Stephfon Walton: Yeah. Yeah, f-for me, um, coming in as a, as a young engineer into, to IBM, I had no, no clue.

Bill: Yeah.

Stephfon Walton: I mean, I knew just like you said, you know in our generation, you know, people [00:07:00] fact- whether it be a factory, whether it be any kind of industry, people found a job and they stood there and they, they knew their brothers were there, their parents were there, their sisters were there, their brothers were there, and they just...

that's where they were. For me, I was just trying to figure out how to, you know, survive, you know, Right ... starting out that young. And so, um, yeah, I mean, I, I started off just trying to figure out how to find my way and before you know it, I mean, there's a lot of time in between. Before you know it, you know, it's 41, 41 years later.

Unique in IBM in that it's, it was, it's a very large company, and if you're willing to reinvent yourself, if you're willing to continue to learn, there was opportunities for you to almost basically change careers inside the same company, which I did about four times. Actually reinvented myself and, and, and switched gears and, and r- and, and navigated and rotated and, and just moved around until you know, before I know it again, it's, it's 41 years, years [00:08:00] later.

So no, there wasn't any one singular moment where I said, "Hey, this is where I wanna be." I think as long as you continue to grow, as long as you continue to learn, um, as long as there's some opportunities there for you to do those things, and then you're able to balance your, your, your, your work life and your family you, you say, "Okay, this is a good place for me."

Kevin Oakley: Yeah, for me, um, so actually wh- where I grew up, IBM had a facility in Research Triangle Park. I grew up about 30, 40 minutes away from that in Person County. And there were a, a handful of people who had left the farm and gotten jobs at IBM, and they knew that if they were able to get a job there, that they felt like they had given themselves and their family security for life.

So when the [00:09:00] opportunity when I got the job offer from HP, I felt like that was it. You know, going back to my to what I saw growing up. You know, once you found a great company, you, you felt like it was a privilege to be there and not a right, and you wanted to stay there. And so when I got that that opportunity with HP, I felt like, "Okay, this, this is it for me."

I, I, I wanted to build my career. I wanted to... I felt like I had done the best that I was gonna be able to do. At that point, I was in my mid-30s. I'm like, "This is where I wanna be forever."

Jim: Kind of wanna go back to what Kevin talked about before. Sure. Because I was not sought out.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah.

Jim: No one was batting down the doors to recruit me coming out of college.

Um, so you and I are kinda like the lonesome losers looking for jobs, right? Right. This guy's a scholarship athlete from an academic standpoint, so he's got IBM and all these companies probably coming after [00:10:00] him. Um, so talk about that. So why did you pick IBM? Who else was courting you at that point in time?

Yeah. Because we were trying to court-

Stephfon Walton: Yeah ...

Jim: everybody who would-

Stephfon Walton: Yeah ...

Jim: potentially give us a job offer. Right. So.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah. My school, I'll, I'll tell you what, you know, the, the, the college that I went to, Southern University, um, you know, I had an opportunity to go to, to, you know, other schools. And I choose Southern University, which is a HBCU, um, Historically Black College University And, um, and it had a excellent engineering program.

I mean, yeah, I went there, you know, sports and all that kind of thing, but, you know, really my mother, who was an educator kinda steered me to, to go there and, um, and, and, and, and, and focus on academics as well. And that particular, um, school had an amazing track record for, for hiring engineers, and so all of the major companies came in there recruiting.

And so, um, this is, this is really, really [00:11:00] strange stories. B- it was this guy, and you guys will know him when I say his name worked for IBM for years, Bill Bell. I don't know if you know Bill Bell. He's... was the longtime, ended up being the longtime mayor of Durham.

Kevin Oakley: Mm-hmm.

Stephfon Walton: For, for, for years. But before he was the mayor of Durham, he was an IBMer.

And before, you know, as an IBMer, he was a, a recruiter, and so he came down to Louisiana from North Carolina recruiting. And at the time I was on a in a club called the Business and Industry Cluster, and I was the president of this. So that's one of the things I did. I tried to immerse myself in the school.

And so Bill came and, um, he saw me, and we, we got to know each other and, you know, over the years he-- we, we fostered a relationship. A- and so he, he made a big push to, to get me at IBM. But along the way, I interned at IBM a couple, two or three times. So I did have quite a few opportunities to go, um, HP all of the tech companies, even some oil companies that were paramount [00:12:00] to south, southwest part of the, um, the United States.

But I interned with IBM in Manassas, Virginia, interned with IBM in Lexington, Kentucky. And so once I got to know this was a major brand, you know, IBM. When you say IBM in the '80s, it was like the big thing. And I said, "Hey, you know, if these guys want me, I'm gonna take 'em up on it." And so, um, you know, I interviewed a lot.

I mean, HP Intel, um, Texas Instruments, all of these large companies did recruit me, but I chose IBM just because I had someone That actually showed some, some interest in me you know, a lot more than a personal interest in, in me. It's kinda like, you know, getting recruited by a, a blue-chip athlete getting recruited by, you know, NC State or somebody.

Although I, although although I am a Carolina, I am a Carolina guy. When I moved up here, I had to pick a team. I chose [00:13:00] Carolina, so, That was it ... yeah, so it, it, it made you feel good. Yeah. And that's how I, that's how I ended up getting to IBM, yeah. Yeah.

Jim: Kevin and I don't, don't know that feeling.

Kevin Oakley: No, we don't.

Certainly do not.

Stephfon Walton: Well, you know, you ended up NC State some kind of way, you know? They, they, they don't, they don't let chopped liver in there, do they? I

Kevin Oakley: hope not. Oh, me.

Bill: Well, what about you? You mentioned, Sam, picking up that, um, the reputation of the company-

Kevin Oakley: Mm-hmm ...

Bill: played a lot- Of course ... in both of your decisions.

Was that... I mean, I don't wanna put words in your mouth. Is that true for you, too?

Kevin Oakley: It, it is. It, it j- it just signified, um, if I can be so, um... If I can say this, it just, it made me feel like I had arrived because I had the opportunity to work for a national or really global-

Stephfon Walton: Mm-hmm ...

Kevin Oakley: brand. We both ended up working for global brands, and it made me [00:14:00] feel good about myself.

Not that I ever really lacked any self-confidence, but I, I knew that if I was gonna be hired by this organization, I also had to up my game. Y- you know, I had to be the best person and professional that I could be. So it, it did matter. Y- you know, having a brand like HP or IBM, it, it, it certainly did matter

Bill: I'm trying to imagine that today.

You know, there are a lot of big companies, and there are national global companies as well, but I'm, I'm just... What has changed? Because I don't know if people still feel the way... I, I mean, I can identify with how you felt about that. Mm-hmm. Do you think people feel that way today about, It, it just seems different today.

Kevin Oakley: I don't. You don't? I, I mean, generally speaking, I don't think they do. Um, what's funny about a place like like HP is there's still a ton of people there who when they [00:15:00] put their notices on LinkedIn, you know, they'll talk about celebrating their 25th, 30. Um, a, a, a VP that I reported up to, he's been with the company at least 40 years, like Stefan was with IBM.

But in my, in my family, um, it, it's... It just, it just doesn't seem to matter as much. It, it doesn't. And I don't know what some of the younger folks are, are really chasing, but the idea of a, a big national brand just seems to really be low on the list of priorities for them as to where they work.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah. I think, I think the name of the brand still matters. Mm. And I think the kids wanna be there initially but they don't have any burning desire to finish there, right? I mean, you know, um I do a lot of recruiting do a lot of professional hiring and globally. And, um, and I'll tell you this, um, if you go [00:16:00] internationally and, and, and, and I hire people in, say, um, Costa Rica or hi- hire people, they want to come to IBM because- It's on the, it's on their ticky list.

And now everybody else will see, okay, this has, guy had some experience at IBM or HP. They're, they're, they're a well sought-after commodity after that. Mm-hmm. So I think it's more for them, um, you know, an opportunity to, um, to grow in another way to get that experience and then take those experience and, you know, move to South Beach or something, you know.

Mm-hmm. As, as, you know, some of the athletes will say. And so yeah, it's not as important for them to stay there and, and build a career at one place. Um, I think they feel like they can grow their career and experiences and then take it somewhere else and contribute a little bit more. And it's all about, I think, being able to contribute [00:17:00] at a level that they feel is, is more paramount to them, right?

I mean, again, like I said before, I mean, I was able to contribute at the same company without having to move. Now they feel like, "Hey, I've done all I can do here. I wanna go take it and do something somewhere else."

Jim: True, but let's take IBM or HP for, for example. Mm-hmm. Big companies. Um, you talked about basically taking four different jobs- Mm-hmm

or reinventing yourself four different times- Mm-hmm ... within the company. That mindset today, why isn't, why aren't they looking at that as an alternative as well? Yeah. Yeah. Is it, is, has the company itself changed in reference to giving them the opportunity or not recognizing-

Stephfon Walton: Yeah. And I- ... the

Jim: longevity of somebody

Stephfon Walton: and when I say I changed careers all of it wasn't by my own volition. All right? I mean, you know, you could see some handwriting on the wall, like for instance, for myself. I started, you know, as he said, this was, this, this... [00:18:00] And I started in RTP research, right? It was a huge manufacturing hub. It was the largest facility in the IBM Corporation, totally.

And so they had factories going 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And so, um, that's where I started in that realm manufacturing test engineering. And, um, as you all know, you know, that went away.

Bill: Yeah.

Stephfon Walton: You know? Mm-hmm. Factories went away. We start offshoring all of our production, and so we s- you can see that coming.

And so now I say, "Oh, I may need to, you know, switch gears a little bit and, and move into maybe, you know, more operations or more, you know, um you know offshore support," right? And so then you have to change your s- change, change your career. But you had an opportunity to do that. And, you know, then we totally got out of, you know, design and manufacturing and we, we sublet everything.

We sold off a lot of stuff, and so you had to reinvent yourself again. [00:19:00] Now, kids today, um- Um, they, you know, they, they're a little bit different in that maybe they don't need, they don't have those outside forces forcing them to have to reinvent themselves. Then it's more of their own, you know- Mm ... volition.

They say, "Okay, well, I've done this long enough. I don't like it. I'm tired. I'm gonna go do something else." And in the companies they're in, it's not as easy as it sounds to go find another job in the same company doing something totally different because now they're not really looking for you to... I mean, if they want somebody to do, you know, finance, they'll go find somebody that's got some finance experience.

Mm-hmm. And so I think it's, it, you know, I think the, the way businesses are operating today is a little bit different than they were- Mm ... when we were when we started.

Bill: So the companies themselves have changed.

Stephfon Walton: Yes, they have.

Bill: And, um, [00:20:00] the reputation of companies, do you think overall... You looked at IBM, Hewlett-Packard, and- Mm

uh, and I look at a lot of companies today and I go, "You know, I would love to work for them," for the very same reasons you went into it. But at the same time, it seems as though corporations are now targets in a lot of way. And if for no other reason, the public propaganda some- I don't know how to phrase it- Yeah

kinda wears on kids and, and young people. Maybe they don't view the companies the way you both did at that time. Is that reasonable to believe that?

Kevin Oakley: I think so. I think so. I think I think some of the, the generation that's following all of us in this room, um first of all, I think a lot of them are ch- are chasing the next 30% raise they can get, or 20% raise they can get- Right

That they feel like and I think that becomes most important to them. But I also think that, [00:21:00] um large corporations, although, I mean, HP for example, was a very large corporation, but in a lot of ways it was like a Silicon Valley startup in terms of its culture that a lot of y- And, and today they have actually have a lot of younger people working for them.

Now, whether or not they end up staying, I, I don't... You know, it remains to be seen, but but yeah, I, I, I think a lot of the kids are more focused on, um, just you know, the next pay raise they can get, and then they'll circle back to a company like HP or IBM, you know, if they find that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

Do you

Bill: ever get to a point where you said- Got so mad at work, so disgusted about what was going on, you even thought for a moment that this is it. I, I, I can't work here anymore. That ever cross your mind? I mean, that's just part of [00:22:00] human life, right? There are gonna be times you're gonna be disappointed.

You're gonna be, in your case- Yeah ... you had to move- Yeah ... even though you didn't wanna move.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah.

Bill: You ever come a- ever think about that?

Stephfon Walton: Um, you know I mean, in, in my, in my career, um, there's been some times when, you know, things got tough obviously. Um, but never to the point where I felt I wanted to throw in the towel.

I mean, you know, I look at some of the, the instances where, um, the industry and the way business was going and some of the jobs that I had, um, required me to, to do some things like laying people off.

Jim: Mm.

Stephfon Walton: I mean, that's very difficult- Yes ... to do as a, as a manager and as a executive is to, is to tell somebody, you know, you, you no longer have a job.

And then if, so if you stay at a place long enough, that's gonna happen. I mean- Yeah ... you know, it's, it, it, and it, and it happened to me, you know, quite a few times. And in those instances you're like, "Yeah, I can't [00:23:00] do this anymore," right? I mean, this is not right or, you know, it's not pleasing, it's not, you know.

But then you think about it and, and you say, hey, you know, you, you try to make those pillows t- um, tall enough so that when people fall, they, they don't, you know, bump their heads.

Kevin Oakley: Mm-hmm.

Stephfon Walton: And so if you can do that and, and, and, and make it s- a soft landing for people and treat those people with some dignity and respect, you know, it kinda makes it, you know, more palatable to where you, you know, you can keep going.

So, um, but no, I've never, And again, IBM is a, is a good company. They, they focus on respect for the individual and they were, they were very, um, accommodating. Um, you know, and they were able to, you know, um, be elastic over the years as, as time changed, like leaves. And they were on the forefront of, of, of a lot of things and so again, I was lucky to be with a company that, that did, you know, kinda [00:24:00] transform and, and, and move with the times so it, so that those tough times were not as difficult as they probably could have been had I been somewhere else.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah, I, there were a lot of times when I was frustrated, and I don't know that I actually said earlier what my responsibility was, but I was a sales rep. So I was a sales rep with a quota, um, and had a lot of eyes on my number. I mean, I, I ma- my success or failure is easy, easy to, to measure.

Either you hit your number or you don't. Um, and there were times when I was frustrated, which doesn't have anything to do with whether or not I was hitting my number or not, but it was just when I was empowered, when I felt like I could go out and win my own deals based on what I thought needed to be done, it's a great feeling.

You know, I, I didn't mind having that pressure on me. Um, I really didn't. But, um- [00:25:00] Sometimes when you're negotiating and you're trying to win deals and things don't go your way, you're like, "W- you know, why am I doing this?" So I asked myself a few times that, but here's the thing, I never did anything about it.

I never updated my resume. I never applied outside of HP. I rarely even looked for jobs internally. Y- you know, so there were moments of frustration, but at the end of the day, it wasn't that bad because if it got bad enough, I would've done something about it, and I never did.

Jim: I think too, Companies have changed, no doubt about it.

But on the flip side, as an employee, you gotta stay relevant. Mm-hmm. You gotta stay valuable to the business, and I think s- those folks that tend to get caught up in layoffs, not all of them, but some of them, they're not valuable anymore. You know, they might be a middle manager, for example- Mm ... um, where you can cut the middle management piece out, and you can either go with the cheaper or lower level manager, or you just dump it all to the director.

Mm-hmm. Um, how did you both stay valuable and relevant in the [00:26:00] business? You're a little bit easier 'cause if you're hitting your quota, you're probably sticking, um, assuming you have something to sell. Mm-hmm. You know? If- Right ... HP product was really good for a while.

Stephfon Walton: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I think it's still good now, but sometimes it wasn't as good as something else, like Lenovo.

Um- Sure ... so but talk about maintaining your value in the business.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah. It's, I always challenged myself to make sure that that I s- did appear to be valuable internally. And so I looked to develop and nurture relationships within the company. Of course, as a quoted salesperson, I had to have relationships outside of the company.

But you know, I was one of those guys that, um, although it never happened, I think the company thought enough of me to where they could see me in different positions over the years. And so it [00:27:00] was always very important to me to nurture and develop the internal relationship as much as it was external with customers.

But you're right, Jim. I mean, my success or failure is easy to, to track. If you're hitting your number you're gonna be, you're gonna be okay internally. If you're not hitting your number then that's when people are gonna start asking questions. And in 23 years, I hit my number most of the time, maybe 90% of the time, but not 100% of the time.

So on those times when I didn't attain my quota, um, then that's when it was important to make sure that folks knew internally that, okay, Oakley may have had a bad year this year or an off year this year, but he knows how to run the business. You know, his customers trust him. We trust him internally.

He should be fine going forward. So I... It was important for me to make sure that I was well-aligned inside to make sure that they knew I could still continue to bring value. [00:28:00]

Stephfon Walton: Yeah, that's... I mean, he hit the nail right on the head. I mean, you know, me being in operations, support, engineering, obviously, um, what you know was very important.

I mean, you had to be able to be good at the job that you were doing, right? I mean, I tell kids this all the time. I mean, you can't go look for another job if you're not doing well at the job you're, you got. Mm. And so it starts there. You gotta, you gotta be relevant and you, you gotta be willing to be learn, you gotta be curious, and you gotta, you know, build a portfolio of, of knowledge and value, you know, based on the career that you're, you're, you're focusing on.

But then, you know, after- at, at that, after that, it's building relationships.

Kevin Oakley: Mm-hmm.

Stephfon Walton: Right? You gotta, you gotta be able to foster those relationships. I mean, it's, And, and you, and you can't build a relationship when you, when you're looking for a job, right? I mean, that's too late then. You have to have fostered those relationships well in advance to the point where you need to go look for a job.[00:29:00]

It's, it, you know, it's just like investing in, in anything, right? I mean, you have to invest in those relationship, cult- cultivate them and build them so that when it comes to the point when there, there's a need, people can go and, and look at your past, you know experiences and successes, and then layer that with the fact that you've been good to people or, you know, you've mentored some folks and you've y- y- you know, you know, you've built those relationships over time.

And it makes it a little bit easier for you to then navigate you know, the waters. So yeah.

Jim: Yeah. Probably in your day too, a little bit easier since you weren't virtual. Um, you probably were more virtual, right? 'Cause you had a territory and all that stuff. [00:30:00] what do you, how do you tell the kids today to navigate these relationships when they're- in their bedroom basically, going online all day long. It's so true. Yeah.

Stephfon Walton: Whether, whether it's virtual or whether it's in person building relationships don't change. I mean, you gotta be able to talk to somebody, and you know, you don't have to look at them all the time. I mean- Mm-hmm ... but you gotta be able to pick up the phone. You can't text them.

You c- you know? Right. You gotta, you gotta, you know, say, "Hey-

Jim: Interpersonal skills.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah, your interpersonal skills are very important. Yeah. Yeah, it's good to, it's good to be face to face with somebody when you, when you meet them, but you don't have to be that way. I mean, you know, this, this concept, especially for me, like and, and him, like, you work in a global [00:31:00] company.

You build relationships with people that you've never met.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Stephfon Walton: I mean, literally, I mean, you could be best friends with someone or best colleagues with someone, you know, in Montana, and you've never really met them. But you know, when you pick up the phone and talk to them, they'll, "Oh, that's Kevin. You know, I better, I better answer this, this phone call."

And so yeah, I mean, you talk to, you talk to the kids. Y- y- you can't sit there and, and, and text them and, and hope that they, you know, answer you. You have to actually talk to people, have some interpersonal skills. You gotta find some common ground inside and outside of the, the, the work you're doing.

You gotta show some value, and you've gotta be able to be willing to, you know, make sure that it's not all about you, right? Mm-hmm. You know, 'cause you can get into that rut as well. You know, I'm only building this relationship because it's good for me, and it's, that shines through automatically. Yeah. I mean, you can, you can pick that [00:32:00] up, you know like you smell of skunk in the next room.

And so you have to, you have to build relationships or- organically and, and, you know, it has, it has to mean something. And you, and you gotta, you gotta really focus on, on do- and doing that. So, yeah.

Kevin Oakley: Yep.

Bill: You know, I- I'm sorry, go ahead.

Kevin Oakley: No, I was gonna s- I just, I agree with everything Stefan just said.

It's important.

Bill: Well, you know, I talk about or I hear about company loyalty.

Kevin Oakley: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And and it has to be a two-way street, and I'm wondering if that's the key, where you, what you just spoke about, having those relationships within the company, 'cause the company is nothing but people- Yeah ... no matter how big it is, correct?

Jim: Yeah.

Bill: But there was a perception, I thought it was real, that companies really seemed to value their employees. You could stay for life. They were a big part of the community. And, um, um, I don't know if it's because of if things have changed that much, but a company's a company. It's only [00:33:00] people.

Stephfon Walton: It's only people.

Bill: So if you want a company to treat you as they've treated you, obviously you guys are happy with how you were treated. Is that the key to it, those relationships, or is there something more?

Kevin Oakley: The relationship sure does matter. It sh- it seems to me like it matters a, a great deal. But you, you've gotta do a good job.

You've got to, you, you've got to You wanna be a person that people look at and they, when they describe you to somebody else, they'll say, "Well, he, he knows the job. He understands it well, and he works hard, and he's a good guy to have around on the team." so I, I really believe that you have to go in and prove yourself, but once you prove yourself and you develop those internal relationships, um, I think you'll find people that as long as they're in those positions, that when it does come time when personnel decisions have to [00:34:00] be made, you know, you think you've got air cover is what we used to call it at HP.

And, and and it was always nice to have that. You had to earn it, but it was nice to have it.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah. I mean IBM's a good company, but just like any other place, they got some bad people also. Sure. I mean, you know, you, you've... A- a- and over my career, um, I can safely say maybe two maybe situations where I, I, I didn't see eye to eye with, you know, someone in the, in the way they were managing the business and the way they were managing the people.

They were just not good at it. I mean, and you can, you know, you know, some, some, some folks think they wanna be leaders, and they think they want to, but they don't have the intestinal fortitude or they don't have, um, in my opinion. Again, this is Stephon speaking, right? I mean, they, they may have thought them different, but, um, they just didn't have what it took to be an effective leader, and it showed.

And [00:35:00] those people can really affect your career. I mean, if you get someone in a position of power and, um, and they're, and they're not comfortable in that position, they can make things, you know, really difficult for you. And, and then n- then now you don't have any recourse, right? Because unless you figure out some kind of way to get yourself out of that, out from under that- Mm

um, they can, they can force you to make a decision that you would not have otherwise made.

Kevin Oakley: You just hope to outlast them, right? You just hope to, hope to outlast them. Yeah.

Stephfon Walton: Well, I

Jim: think one of the benefits, too, you had a plum assignment. Mm-hmm. Maybe it wasn't plum, but he had an assignment in Asia.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jim: You know? And you don't get that if you're hopping around different jobs- No ... because in most cases, they're not gonna hire, you know, somebody without any special skills to go over to Asia. Most companies will move somebody internally over- That's right ... for a period of time. So talk about that.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah, that's right. I mean, so, [00:36:00] um, again, this is part of the transformation of, of IBM. We were, um, moving our design and, and, and product development to other countries. And so they need someone to go over there and, and, and, and conduct that transition. Hire the people, build up the, the whole thing. And so again, I had those skills.

Um, and it, and, and I had my... s- I was in a position- To be able to, to, to do that. I mean, the opportunity came up, um, and I said... Talked to my family, and yeah, I mean, this is something I, I wanna do. And it's one of the few times in my career where, um, I had to make a decision that not necessarily was in agreement with my wife.

Ooh, pray for that. But you know, we sat down and talked about it, and, um, and you know, and IBM made it work my way. I could come back, you know as frequent as I want to. Um, and so yeah, again, you know, I had put myself in a position. And then the way the [00:37:00] business was flowing, it gave myself an opportunity to take advantage of that and, and go there and start that business, be entrepreneurial.

And again, that's another, you know opportunity that I had came along that, again allowed me to stay with this company. How many other places would you go to be able to go start your own... basically start your own business in another country? You know, that, that was a, a, a part of my growth as, as well.

Um, and, um, not just that particular international assignment. I mean, I, I, I end up being in a situation where I could manage all over the world. I mean, I had facilities in Europe, I had facilities in Asia, had South America, Central America, and so I got a chance to visit all those places and meet all those people.

And so, you know, for me, I, I mean, I hit the, I hit the jackpot. Wow. I mean, I can, I can actually say that I, I mean, I don't know how good I was. Mm-hmm. It's more of I was blessed and lucky, but it, it just [00:38:00] happened that, that way for me. So yeah.

Bill: That sounds like a heck of a perk. Yeah. You know, if some of you's listening- Yeah

why would you stay with a company your entire career?

Stephfon Walton: Yeah.

Bill: In fact, let me ask that. What are the pros and cons for people who are listening today?

Kevin Oakley: Staying with a company your entire career? Yeah, yeah. Well, for me it was a goal to find the company that I wanted to spend the bulk of my career with. But, um, a company like HP you know, if you, if you're talking about you know, the elements of, of working for a s- a company specifically like HP, it has great benefits package.

Y- you know, those things are, are very nice. You get to know people on a long-term basis. Um, you become synonymous with your role. Like, in, in my case, I was a, a public sector sales rep for the state of North Carolina. I, I was it. I was the only person that had that title. Nobody else could claim that title.[00:39:00]

So you become a, kind of a national known commodity because, you know, he's the guy in North Carolina, right? Y- and, um, but y- you're surrounded by very talented people. Y- you know, your, your benefits start to stack up over time if you're lucky enough to participate in the equity programs, things like that.

I always just found, like, it, it ... in, in time and over time you get pay raises, all things like that. You know, that stuff just seems to stack up if you stick around and stay with the same company. Um, at least that's was my approach on it. I was n- it, for me it was never about the money. I was never chasing money even though I was a, a commission sales rep.

Um, but I just knew if I stay here, this is a company that will take care of me over time, and it's a mutually beneficial relationship.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah. That, I mean, it's, that's, that's true. I mean, [00:40:00] I, I got recruited by some other companies to, to leave. Um, but if I look at it in aggregate, I mean, I was in- Research Triangle Park, North Carolina.

I mean, it's a, a great place to live and grow and, and build a family. I was at a great company already. Um, I had a opportunity to go some other places for some, some, some better leadership opportunities, but then I had, at that point in time, I had kids and a wife and a family, and that was important to me as well.

Um, and so I, I wanted to be in a position where, you know, I could grow in my career, but I als- I wanted to also be a very involved parent. I mean, I wanted to go to my, my boys' games. I mean, I wanted to, you know, be a participative parent, which I didn't quite always get as a, as a young person growing up. So that was important to me.

And so, um, I, um, I, I turned those opportunities down. You know, [00:41:00] and again, it, it... Some of them was substantially more, more, more money, but, you know, with that money came more responsibility, more commitment to your, to time. Mm-hmm. And then you had to weigh all of that against, you know, where you were already at.

I mean, you know, I didn't wanna go to New York City either, right? Little small town guy, I didn't wanna live in the city. I was like, "This was great for me. This is as big as I wanted to, to get." And so you know again, you got to weigh all of the pros and the, and the cons and what's important to you and then decide whether or not, you know staying was more palatable than, than, than chasing the next promotion, like you said-

Kevin Oakley: Mm-hmm

Stephfon Walton: or the next, you know, executive position. You know, so yeah, I decided to stay.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah.

Jim: So when you get ready to... During your career, is, do you set out when you're starting that, "Hey, I'm gonna retire when I hit a certain level of income [00:42:00] and/or age"? Or is the longevity within the company and the change and the ebb and flow of the business dictating when you're gonna retire?

Kevin Oakley: That's a good question, Jim. And for me, um- HP had always been very good about coming out with retirement packages. It just was part of their culture. You knew that you couldn't count on it. You could never take something like that for granted. But historically, they would come out with a retirement package every three to five years, and the, the parameters for the package changed.

It could be combination of years of service plus age. It could b- i- you know, it, it changed every time one came out. So a retirement package came out in January of '23 that I was... It was the first one that I was eligible for, and at that time I was 59 years old and, [00:43:00] um, and I thought to myself that this is the right time.

Y- you know, this is the right time. It wasn't necessarily a dollar number that I wanted to have in my bank account. It, it just... It was an intuition that says, "This is the correct time to go." Um, so you know, having, um, having savings obviously helps when you are that age and you are retiring. Um, but it was...

You know, I had been doing the same job for a long time, for a very long time. These packages were not guaranteed that they would ever come back. So I looked at it and said... I took a month to decide and said, "Okay, this is, this is the correct time for me." So it was a, it was a combination of everything that was laden from it.

And I tell you another big thing that I enjoyed having the privilege of was leaving on my [00:44:00] own terms.

Bill: Right.

Kevin Oakley: Because not a lot of people get a- the opportunity to do that, um, these days. But um... And I had no reason to think that I would, was in a, being threatened to not leave on my own terms, but having that, having that power, um, felt pretty good.

So you look at all of it, everything, add up everything together, and it's like, now's the right time.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah, he said something, he said that that's very, um, important to me, leaving on your own terms. And, um, you know, um, after a certain amount of time, you think you, you're on borrowed time maybe. Now for me my decision to retire wasn't because I was tired of contributing.

I still felt I could contribute. Um obviously, um, you know, I was lucky and blessed enough to have- Been financially, you know, in the investments and, and the money you make at a company like [00:45:00] IBM, I was able to not have that as a, you know, as a contributing factor of making you wanna continue to work. Um, but, um, the most important thing to me is, um, being able to decide on my own what I wanted to say yes to, right?

Um, if you're working y- you don't, you don't really own that. I mean, you know, the company still is in control of your good vast majority of your time. And so, um, leaving, you know, on your, you know, on, on your own mission or, you know, um, on your own, on, on your own course was very important. But also being able to decide those things that you wanted to do in the next chapter of your life and, and those things you wanna be able to say yes to.

Um, and so that's, that's, that was the most important thing to me. Um, still young enough to be able to, you know, if I wanted [00:46:00] to, you know, do something more from a corporate perspective, I could do that. If I wanted to spend time with more of my grandkids, if I wanted to travel more, all these things I can say yes or I can say, "Nope, I don't wanna do that," and I don't have to answer to anybody to do that.

So that, that's what kinda drove me. And then I felt like I, I tell my wife all, all the time, she s- she starts her career working when she started working, you know, when she graduated from college. I don't start my... I started my career back when I was 12 years old- ... working on a farm. Yeah. So I've been, I've been, I've been at it a, a much- That's true

much longer than, than s- than she has. Yeah. So you know you know, you get, you get, you get tired and then you wanna, you wanna just, you know- Take it easy and, and then you pick and choose the thing that you wanna say yes to.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah.

Jim: Any fear when you leave that, you know, three months later you're like, "Man, I, I don't have a paycheck coming in anymore"?

I know financially you're secure- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... but it's that psychological getting that [00:47:00] direct deposit, you know, hitting every couple weeks- Oh, man ... that you're not getting anymore.

Stephfon Walton: Um- Absolutely. That's a real thing.

Jim: Yeah. How did you overcome that? That's...

Stephfon Walton: I don't know if I have. That's a real, that's a real thing.

And and, and coming from humble beginnings, I mean, you spend your whole life... I mean, Bill, y- you guys, I mean, you spend your whole life making and saving.

Bill: Yeah.

Stephfon Walton: And it's just like, that's what you know, and that's the only thing y- y- you really know. I mean, you wanna build a nest egg, you wanna take care of your family, you wanna make money for your...

You send your kids to co- You know, it's always the next thing that you wanna, you wanna save for and you wanna, you wanna build this nest egg for. And then you, you get down to the end, it's like, "I, I don't know how to spend this." Right. I, I, I don't, you know... Money's, money's going out-

Jim: Yeah ...

Stephfon Walton: but it's nothing coming in.

And so that mental, you know, rollercoaster is, is, is very, very, very, very tough to, to deal with, especially if you're the one doing the accounting in your, in your house. You're like [00:48:00] I see a lot of minuses and not a whole lot of pluses." But then you have to think about it and you say, "Okay," you, you, you g- you get a little bit more disciplined and you get a little bit, you know, you think about it a little bit, a little bit more and, and you, you say, "Okay, you know, this is gonna work out."

And you build your portfolio and your, and your investments and stuff so that, you know, you're not as worried about it. But yeah, it's, it's, it's a real, it's a real thing.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah. It's a real thing.

Kevin Oakley: No, it's, it is real. It is real to go from decent income to to really none at all, and you... Yeah.

Stephfon Walton: It's just coming from a different place.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah.

Stephfon Walton: Right. You know? It's not- Right ... you don't, you don't see a de- Your passive

Jim: income is-

Kevin Oakley: Yeah ...

Stephfon Walton: you're

Jim: pulling out a fixed income- Yeah ... portion of your business. Yeah.

Kevin Oakley: That's

Stephfon Walton: right.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah. That's

Stephfon Walton: right.

Kevin Oakley: It does take some, Getting used to. It... Yeah, it really does. It takes some mental adjustment on that. It really, really does.

That's, that is a real thing.

Jim: Now, you had a little bit of a change of career. So you, you retired, but then you started- Mm-hmm ... you went to work someplace else for a little while from-

Kevin Oakley: Yeah ...

Jim: [00:49:00] How was that transition, you know? It it's- 'Cause culturally it's HP and now it's something different.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah.

Jim: And you're in a different world, so-

Kevin Oakley: Yeah

Jim: walk us through that.

Kevin Oakley: Well, it's, um... Actually, I had this lined up before I, um, had retired from HP. So, I, as a sales rep, as a commissioned sales rep, I had the opportunity to work with business partners because HP sold a lot of its product through, through partners. And so I had relationships with partners, customers.

Um, and so I talked to a couple of partners and I said, "Look, you know, I have the opportunity to take an early retirement package. Would you be interested in me if, um if I took that package to actually come to work for you?" And to my surprise a couple of them said, "Yeah, we'd love to have you."

So so I go from being a [00:50:00] manufacturer rep to being a working for a partner who now works for the person who replaced me. So it's, it's, it's been a, it's been a good transition. Y- you know, I, I, I knew the people before I left HP. I know them even better now because now they're my colleagues and, um, and for me it's, it's a small company, um, owned by, um owned by three partners out of Charlotte.

So it's, it's been an easy, it's been an easy transition. My responsibility is less now than when I was with HP, so there's less pressure. Um, and, um, I work pretty much autonomously. You know, I can kinda make my own schedule. So I don't have any complaints. I think it's probably probably the perfect transition for me as I do go into full-time retirement with, you know, no [00:51:00] schedule.

Right. Um, so it, that's worked out, that's worked out well.

Bill: Good deal.

Kevin Oakley: Yep.

Bill: Yeah. Any regrets looking back?

Stephfon Walton: None.

Bill: No, I don't sense it at all.

Kevin Oakley: Yeah. I don't, I don't. Yeah. The the only regret, I, I have one regret. I do. Um- The regret that I have is that I did not seek out different opportunities internally. I did not.

Y- you know, I had a good gig that I was doing, um, but I wish that I had sought out more opportunities internally i- or at least another one or two. Stefon said that he had four different roles. I, um, I o- I really, I only had one job in 23 years, and that was public sector sales rep in North Carolina.

I wish I had tried something different along the way, but that's a small regret. But it, but since you asked, that's the only [00:52:00] regret I have. So.

Jim: He does have something self-proclaimed that he did at HP. Want to share that with the audience? Yeah. You're number one

Stephfon Walton: claim to fame. Nope. Yeah, claim to fame. Yeah, we know this.

This is our inside joke. He's proud of it.

Kevin Oakley: I am proud of it. I am, um, proud to say that in my 23 years with HP, I had zero HR complaints on me.

Bill: That, that is... Congratulations.

Kevin Oakley: I think that's- That is a- My, quite the accomplishment. My m- my manager, when I had taken the retirement, she she says, "Oakley, I want you to write down your list of accomplishments."

And I'm like, "Well, that's gonna be a very short list," but at the top of the list was zero HR complaints. Some people would be surprised by that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I

Bill: think

Jim: it's that time, Bill.

Bill: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's at the end of our, our discussions, we ask for maybe some hot [00:53:00] takes. F- kind of condense this whole interview into, you know, a few thoughts from each of you as to what people should take away from our get together today.

Who wants to go first? Do you want five or just want a share five? Yeah.

Jim: Yeah, five's a, you know, a good target, but if it's less- Yeah ... so be it. If it's- I'll,

Stephfon Walton: I'll defer to the master here.

Kevin Oakley: Oh, my goodness. Um-

Jim: Piece of advice. Anything-

Kevin Oakley: Yeah ... I mean, I, it's a cliche, but, um, I s- I still think doing good work, working hard, proving yourself, I think all those things matter.

I think aligning yourself with good people around you matter. Um, and if you, y- you know, if it's... I still think that people wanna do good job. I think they wanna do well for themselves, and, um, and you can find all that in one company if that's what you want

Stephfon Walton: Um, yeah, work, work hard. Hard work, nothing is [00:54:00] a substitute for hard work.

Nothing. I mean, I mean, I don't care what it is. It could be IBM, it could be anything. Nothing is a s- a substitute for hard work. Um, be willing to reinvent yourself. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, don't be, don't shy away from it. Um, you know, take a chance. You know, learn something new every day. It n- doesn't have to be at work.

It could be, you know, a new game. You know, learn something different every day. Um, cult- we talked about this a lot cultivate, um, relationships. Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's all starts with the people. And again, don't wait until you need someone- Mm ... to cultivate a relationship. I mean, that, that, that's, that, that doesn't help anybody.

And then, um, you know, do something for somebody else.

Kevin Oakley: Mm-hmm.

Stephfon Walton: Help someone along the way. I mean, um if nothing else, it, it, it makes you feel good about, about yourself. But, um, [00:55:00] you know, at the end of the day, y- you know, someone'll, someone'll look back and say, "Hey, you know, this guy cared about me, and he wanted to see me succeed as much as he wanted to see himsu- hi- himself succeed."

Yeah. I think at the end of the day, that's gonna be what life's all about, right? Yep. What we left on this earth is to, you know, we're put on this earth is to help our fellow man and, and do something special for someone else.

Bill: Yep. And if I may, I will just say, the one thing I heard in this interview over and over again is you balance The quality of your life, your work, with your family.

Stephfon Walton: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And they seem to each all have an equal spot in your life. Am I wrong about that? That's what I picked up from you guys.

Stephfon Walton: Definitely. For me, it's, that's definitely true.

Kevin Oakley: 100% correct.

Stephfon Walton: 100%.

Bill: Any HR problems at home that-

Kevin Oakley: No. That's good. It's funny, my fiance actually is in [00:56:00] HR. Good for

Bill: you.

Jim: Well, they do- what they both didn't talk about too is to talk about that work-life balance and- Yeah

you know, um, they've gone to some pretty cool places and saw some, got some good travel. And then you've done Kilimanjaro- Mm-hmm ...

Kevin Oakley: Patagonia. Everest Base Camp. Nepal. Yeah.

Jim: Yeah. What's your,

Stephfon Walton: what's your, what's your favorite-

Jim: Now, yeah, what's your favorite trip?

Kevin Oakley: Place? My favorite trip? My favorite trip was probably Mount Everest Base Camp, 2009.

And I know we're probably running over, but, um, a quick story. We had a, we had a vice president, and I stay in touch with him today, and we were in an audience of probably 700, 800 people at a s- internal sales meeting, and he asked a question of the audience. He's in a podium in front of the room, and he says, "How many of you took a two-week vacation last year?"

Just out of the blue, random question. You look around, 700, 800 people, maybe, maybe a dozen arms go [00:57:00] up. And he looked at it, and I could tell that that bothered him, and he said, "I want all of you to take a two-week vacation next year." And so I was like, "Okay," I did. And, um, that first trip was actually to Patagonia, but a couple years after that, I went to Mount Everest Base Camp.

And those trips take, you know, two and a half, three weeks. So on his advice he actually changed my life you know, by offering that, that very cheap advice.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah. Hey, I mean, again, growing up where I grew up, I, I mean, I didn't even know some of these, some of the places I've been to even existed on the map.

I mean- Yeah. ... literally, I mean, y- I mean, I'm serious when I say that. I didn't, I didn't even... If it was, I don't think I left the state of Louisiana, you know, until I was 18. I mean, you know, I went to Texas. It was right next door. But I mean, other than that, I didn't, didn't ride a plane until I was getting ready to go to get a job, you know- Yeah[00:58:00]

Recruiting. So, um, I mean, I think about, I, I climbed the Great Wall.

Bill: Oh. Nice.

Stephfon Walton: That's, I mean, I- How's that? I hear it'd be

Bill: an experience.

Stephfon Walton: Wow ... you know, and I skied the Swiss Alps.

Bill: Nice.

Stephfon Walton: And you know, and, um- Yeah, so those are the two that, that, that, that really come to mind and, and, and that visit the South Pacific.

And so those things, again, and I, I didn't know, I didn't, I didn't know where Bali or Bora Bora or New Zealand, any of that stuff was growing up. All it was was something on the map. And, and it's funny 'cause I was a literary rally champion for the state of Louisiana in, in world geography. But, but, hey, I mean, I memorized everything.

Just didn't know how to get there. Just didn't know how to get there. So it worked out. Yeah.

Jim: See, get that corporate, um, build up of vacation over time and you can take trips. That's right. Yeah,

Bill: no doubt. Very

Jim: true. Yeah.

Bill: Well, gentlemen, I [00:59:00] tell you, it's it's been a pleasure.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah.

Bill: Yeah, it really has been. It

Stephfon Walton: definitely

Bill: has been wonderful.

I hope more, more, more folks, especially young ones coming up, really entertain the thought of, you know, it's not about, so much about loyalty, but the things that you can receive in value by being loyal and working with one company, and then taking advantage of it. You gave us some great advice. Yeah.

Stephfon Walton: Yeah,

Bill: yeah.

Great stuff. Thank you both.

Stephfon Walton: All right.

Bill: Appreciate it.

Stephfon Walton: Thank you. Thank you.