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FUTURE OF XYZ is a bi-weekly interview series that explores big questions about where we are as a world and where we’re going. Through candid conversations with international experts, visionary leaders and courageous changemakers- we provoke new thinking about what's coming down the pipeline on matters related to art & design, science & innovation, culture & creativity.
Future of XYZ is presented by iF Design, a respected member of the international design community and host of the prestigious iF DESIGN AWARD since 1953. The show is also a proud member of the SURROUND Podcast Network. For more information, visit ifdesign.com/XYZ.
00:00:04:03 - 00:00:33:05
Speaker 2
Hi and welcome to this, for the American special Thanksgiving edition of Future of XYZ. For everyone else in the world, maybe you're looking for this on Thursday like normal, but we're actually releasing on Tuesday. Today we're going to be talking about a Thanksgiving relevant topic: fine dining. And with us we have two acclaimed chefs and restaurateurs. Wylie Dufresne is in New York City but originally from Providence, Rhode Island.
00:00:33:07 - 00:00:42:19
Speaker 2
And Joann Makovitsky is a New Yorker, born and bred, who now lives in Connecticut. Both of you, thank you so much for being on Future of XYZ.
00:00:42:21 - 00:00:44:00
Speaker 1
Thank you, Lisa.
00:00:44:02 - 00:00:46:14
Speaker 3
Yeah, thanks for having me.
00:00:46:16 - 00:01:12:07
Speaker 2
Well, quick bios, before we dive into the topic. Joann is the managing partner of Community Table Restaurant and Bar since 2018. That's in Connecticut, near where I live. She's also been the owner operator of four other restaurants, including the Michelin starred, Brazilian sushi style restaurant 15 East, all of which were in New York City.
00:01:12:09 - 00:01:38:05
Speaker 2
She is an active member of Les Dames D’Escoffiers, which is an American philanthropic organization of women leaders in the food, beverage and hospitality industries. And I'm so thrilled she's also a very good friend of mine. So I'm very thrilled to have Joann talking about this topic. Wylie Dufresne went to the French Culinary Institute, is among the world's most innovative and respected chefs.
00:01:38:07 - 00:02:03:12
Speaker 2
He rose to international fame for Wd~50, which was on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and merged some pretty groundbreaking scientific tools alongside just great food, and held a michelin star for the entire time that they ran it from 2003 until about 2014, I believe. There's a cookbook. He's appeared as himself on Hulu's The Bear.
00:02:03:14 - 00:02:29:13
Speaker 2
He judges Bravo's Top Chef, Food Network's Beat Bobby Flay and other competitions, and actually played, was shown as himself also on an episode of The Simpsons, which is pretty cool, I have to say. You guys, thank you so much for joining. we always start these future episodes with the topic of the future of x, y, z.
00:02:29:17 - 00:02:41:11
Speaker 2
Today it's fine dining. So in the context of the conversation and your all's expertise, how do we define fine dining?
00:02:41:13 - 00:02:42:15
Speaker 3
Ladies first.
00:02:42:17 - 00:03:18:22
Speaker 1
Okay. Thank you. So I would define fine dining as an elevated experience in a restaurant, a vision of chef restaurateur where people can go and experience, fine ingredients prepared by expert cooks and chefs in a beautiful environment, that would transport them for an evening or a lunch.
00:03:18:24 - 00:03:53:23
Speaker 3
Well, I mean, I would certainly agree with that. I guess I might I don't know if this is helpful or not knowing me probably not. I might ask, and who's in whose eyes are we defining it? Because I think I think the definition has changed over the years and continues to evolve. but I do think it starts with your arrival at a given restaurant and how you're greeted in it, you know, and how you're, you're treated and greeted and a certain type of of hospitality and service and dining.
00:03:54:00 - 00:04:16:08
Speaker 3
and then that follows through, you know, your beverage program, should you choose to engage in that and, and, and be be feted in a certain way by the, by the hosts and then, you know, whisked away out the door, hopefully with, with a positive having had a positive experience. But I think it's tricky to define, in this time.
00:04:16:10 - 00:04:23:01
Speaker 3
And certainly in New York City where, where I am. But in this time it's, it's a moving target more so than ever.
00:04:23:03 - 00:05:02:11
Speaker 2
Well, I think that that's exactly what we want to get to, which is why I really was excited to talk about this, because traditionally, I mean, historically, fine dining was reserved for the upper classes. Right? And it was usually in a home before restaurants. You know, pubs weren't exactly fine dining, but traditionally now in the last, let's say, 100-150 years fine dining, I think of is equated to white tablecloths, carefully set silverware, a certain dress code probably, formal service as you guys both mentioned, meticulously prepared dishes, premium ingredients, and also usually a very much higher price point.
00:05:02:13 - 00:05:10:01
Speaker 2
Do you guys think that this is still the case or is fine dining loosening up or evolving a bit?
00:05:10:03 - 00:05:35:05
Speaker 1
I mean, I would definitely say that it's evolving. I don't think the white tablecloth is required and the silverware for me, fine dining experience is something that's definitely elevated than the everyday. Something that you want to have an experience, not a meal. And whatever that restaurateur and chef want to express, it's their creativity, it's their vision.
00:05:35:07 - 00:05:45:13
Speaker 1
And you want to walk into their world and see how they want to express themselves in the hospitality and food genre.
00:05:45:15 - 00:06:19:02
Speaker 3
And I think that it's I agree with all of that completely. I think some of it is, is also being shaped, by the people that put pen to paper. And those those people are deciding that perhaps some of the more traditional definitions of fine dining are not critical to an experience, an elevated experience. And so, we can discuss certain moments on the calendar perhaps.
00:06:19:02 - 00:06:42:00
Speaker 3
But I mean, I think, for instance, when, you know, Dave Chang was was able to get three stars for a restaurant that had no, from The New York Times, it had no tablecloths. It had really loud music, had nobody in uniforms and no real clear definition between the server and the customer. And and I don't mean any of this as a negative.
00:06:42:00 - 00:07:06:03
Speaker 3
This is all. In fact, I was one of the first and best customers to ever dine in, you know, Ssam Bar or something like that. But I think when we look at certain moments like that, that we see people deciding that some of the trappings of fine dining, that maybe some of us who are older, grew up understanding might be might be different.
00:07:06:03 - 00:07:28:16
Speaker 3
And I think that as those people continue to evaluate, you know, there's always a tricky relationship between those those that do and those that write about those that do. And, sometimes those that write get to decide how we do what we do. And so I think we are seeing a loosening up. Yes. That was my long answer to loosening up.
00:07:28:20 - 00:07:49:21
Speaker 2
I love that I, I'm curious and and I think our listeners and viewers will be curious about, I think restaurants are very sexy. and they always have been, you know, there's this allure of the chef, and I don't think a lot of people see the hard work that goes behind it or the incredibly hard work at most.
00:07:49:23 - 00:08:13:04
Speaker 2
But Joann, you knew from a super young age that you wanted to be in this industry. You started as a buyer at the storied grocer, New York City grocer Dean and DeLuca, and you later became the first female chef at Le Caravelle, which is an amazing upscale French restaurant. And you attended the Culinary Institute of America, one of the most prestigious academies for chefs.
00:08:13:06 - 00:08:18:05
Speaker 2
What is it about food or about fine dining that drew you to the profession?
00:08:18:07 - 00:08:40:00
Speaker 1
I just well, I just want to. Can I just go back and just change some of those facts for accuracy? I'm sorry. So when I started, I started cooking when I was 16, and I was a a very, very low commis at Le Caravelle peeling carrots and potatoes that I was honored to do. And then I went to Culinary Institute of America.
00:08:40:02 - 00:09:13:03
Speaker 1
I went back and cooked at Le Caravelle under Michael Romano, who I think was also one of the game changers at Union Square Cafe, Danny Meyer's first restaurant, who also switched at that time a little earlier than David Chang, switched the face of dining in New York Union Square Cafe. I then went to, work at Dean and DeLuca very happily, after, when I needed a break from the heat and the sharp knives of the kitchen.
00:09:13:05 - 00:09:18:24
Speaker 1
So I'm sorry, I just wanted to digress a little bit. So would you just remind me of where we were going with that?
00:09:18:24 - 00:09:22:06
Speaker 2
I was going to ask what drew you to the profession?
00:09:22:08 - 00:09:50:18
Speaker 1
You know the short answer is, I was always curious what went on behind the swinging doors. And I felt that there was such synergy and energy in a restaurant and things were happening that as a young person, was intriguing of how did all this happen so quickly? How did the food get to the table? How did everyone know what to do?
00:09:50:23 - 00:10:11:20
Speaker 1
So I was just so curious and wanted to be part of that process. I loved creating things. I loved hospitality, I loved cooking for my family and friends, and it was just very natural for me to slip into the industry. And however hard it's been, I loved every day of it.
00:10:11:22 - 00:10:17:14
Speaker 2
Thanks for that and thanks for clarifying the timeline and the background. I don't always get facts right, so I appreciate when guests.
00:10:17:14 - 00:10:23:07
Speaker 1
That’s okay, that would get some big, hard, notices up there.
00:10:23:09 - 00:10:45:09
Speaker 2
Fair. Wylie, a similar question and and again, correct if the bios wrong, but, you got your first hands on experience at your great grandfather’s diner, and you later went on to apprentice under one of the world's most renowned chefs, Jean-Georges Vongerichten. And I can never say his name, French American chef, eventually becoming the chef de cuisine at his eponymous restaurant in New York, Jean-Georges.
00:10:46:14 - 00:10:49:12
Speaker 2
What drew you to fine dining?
00:10:49:14 - 00:11:17:02
Speaker 3
Well, again, I, I did not rise to, the chef de cuisine at Jean-Georges. I was a sous chef there. but I was a chef de cuisine at another one of his restaurants in Las Vegas. But nonetheless, I have been working in restaurants since I was 11 years old, and, I got to, I mean, that was because my my dad was in the restaurant business initially.
00:11:17:04 - 00:11:56:07
Speaker 3
but later in life, it was because, you know, had I had my druthers, I would have loved to have been a professional athlete, perhaps a baseball player. But since I do not possess any sort of, natural, ability beyond the average American male, I that was not in the cards for me. But I did discover in my, you know, around the age of 20 that much of the much of the things I loved about about playing sports, were to be found in the kitchen, and the hierarchy was very similar between that there being, you know, a coach and a chef and then a captain and maybe a sous chef.
00:11:56:07 - 00:12:13:00
Speaker 3
And, you know, both, you know, role players and prep cooks and, you know, you practice during the day and you have a game at night or you, you know, you know, you do prep during the day service at night and it but but mostly there was this sort of redemptive quality to life in the kitchen that mimics sports.
00:12:13:00 - 00:12:27:19
Speaker 3
You know, in a game you strike out or you miss a layup or you, you, you drop the ball or you just make a mistake. Again, it's the same thing with with cooking, you know? Okay, I've overcooked the steak or I've, I've under salted this or I forgot this or you know, but we're going to do this all over again.
00:12:27:19 - 00:12:53:12
Speaker 3
It's a highly cooking is highly redemptive, you know. And and I loved the idea, the life lessons that I found that I loved from playing team sports, I immediately realized were present in in the kitchen, all of this group of people working towards a common goal and a common experience and, doing it happily and, and, and, you know, suffering without any, any displeasure and, and loving every minute of it.
00:12:53:12 - 00:13:10:09
Speaker 3
And, so I was immediately drawn to, to the brigade because it felt like I was on a team, because I was on a, I am on a team still to this day. And it's, you know, the best part of my job is being with that team every day.
00:13:10:11 - 00:13:34:09
Speaker 2
It's like a symphony for you both. I love watching it firsthand knowing a little bit behind the scenes. I want to come back to fine dining, and breaking down the kind of what we'll call the elements that we talked about before. What do you guys think in 2025, and looking ahead for, let's say, just even the next 1 or 2 years, what is the number one most important aspect?
00:13:34:09 - 00:13:47:13
Speaker 2
Is it the ingredients that are used, the atmosphere or ambiance, the service, innovation, like something else entirely? Wylie, you want to go first this time, just take a stab.
00:13:47:15 - 00:14:11:07
Speaker 3
What is the number one most important thing? I'm not sure that it's it I could distill it down to a single thing, because I think what makes restaurants special is a thousand little things being done at the same time without you noticing any of it happening. And I think that the more things that are happening at once without you knowing it, the more you're being looked after, the more things are right.
00:14:11:07 - 00:14:31:03
Speaker 3
From the lighting, the music, to the everything thing, the more things that are happening in a way that you never perceive, that you sort of seamlessly coast through this experience. You arrive and then before you know it, you've left and you go home and all you have are these beautiful memories. So I'm not sure that it's I think it's probably the opposite.
00:14:31:03 - 00:14:44:20
Speaker 3
I think dining at its finest is, is is is many, many, many, many things all happening at once in a way that, that you perceive very few of them.
00:14:44:22 - 00:14:48:02
Speaker 2
Joann, what do you think?
00:14:48:04 - 00:15:30:11
Speaker 1
If I mean, if I had I agree 100% with Wylie. And your your analogy with a symphony is one that I noted as well. If I, if I had to choose one thing of the future and it's, it's something that is clear now, but I think we'll continue I think it's the globalization. Just really creating a smaller world, us all coming together by different nationalities, elevating simpler cuisines or more complex cuisines, elevating, regional cuisines into elevated cuisines, which people have been doing.
00:15:30:11 - 00:15:54:08
Speaker 1
But I think that's something that will continue. I also think, you know, on a more micro level, definitely the sustainability, vegetables, alternate proteins, maybe that's across the board, not only in fine dining, but I think that will become a major part of what we're going to see in fine dining over the next 25 years.
00:15:54:10 - 00:16:12:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, I want to I want to touch on that in a, in a, in a minute. And we're going to do a rapid fire towards the end. And that will be one of one of the main topics. For now, I'm curious, both of you have had restaurants that had a michelin star. Already this is far from a small achievement.
00:16:12:05 - 00:16:44:12
Speaker 2
Equally, Wylie, you won the James Beard Award for best chef in New York, pretty much as soon as you sold wd~50. But, Joann, your restaurants also have had James Beard nominations multiple times as well. What role do external validations like accolades and awards and recognition play in making or assists, meaning a fine dining establishment, specifically?
00:16:44:14 - 00:17:07:03
Speaker 1
it has a lot of value monetarily. It also allows you to draw more talented, professionals to work with you, people who want to be surrounded by what they consider excellence, people who want to learn from that and grow, and that's so important in running a restaurant, is being able to create, to attract the right talent.
00:17:07:05 - 00:17:34:23
Speaker 1
And it just brings attention to your restaurant. So it has a huge monetary value. That doesn't always mean that it's going to make the restaurant more successful. So there's pitfalls too by getting those accolades. I don't know if you want to go into that, but it, I would definitely say it's overall very positive.
00:17:35:00 - 00:17:51:19
Speaker 3
Yeah I would agree with that. It you know, it puts eyes on you and so eyes on you know, hopefully means people coming, people talking about you being, you know, continuing to be part of the dialog and therefore a place that people want to go. But I think also internally it's it's fantastic because, you know, we can't do this on our own.
00:17:51:19 - 00:18:11:11
Speaker 3
It's no, it's, you know, no, no great creative endeavor ever in the history of the world is a work of one person. And it's, you know, as I like to say, there were four Beatles, if I recall. And so, you know what, what it does is it also is a great acknowledgment for the people that work really hard for us and allow us to do what we're doing.
00:18:11:11 - 00:18:34:11
Speaker 3
So, yeah, sure. Winning an award, you know, me winning an award or the restaurant winning an award, that's that's ultimately wonderful. But what I see it as is, is that that means that the people that I feel fortunate to surround myself with are also being acknowledged, and they may not see it that way. So because, you know, their name isn't on the award often or they're not mentioned often, unfortunately.
00:18:34:11 - 00:19:01:02
Speaker 3
But again, it's important to to realize this is, you know, restaurants, fine dining or hot dog stands. They are team efforts and the work of many. And that that when you get acknowledged it, it's it's always important for us to make sure that that that trickles down to the team and that they feel acknowledged because, you know, that's really what it boils down to is that without them, we wouldn't be able to do any of the things that we aspire towards.
00:19:01:08 - 00:19:19:11
Speaker 2
Well, I understand that since we have iF Design is my employer, but also the presenter of Future of XYZ, and we run a design award that is one of the largest independent design awards in the world. And I think a lot of the winners would say the same thing. It's about recognizing the team, about innovation and and bringing eyes on to a great project.
00:19:19:11 - 00:19:43:10
Speaker 2
So thanks for sharing that. I'm curious because both of you have right now new projects either launched as in, Wylie, your case, although I'm sure you have ones I don't know about that aren't. And, Joann, one that's, just starting to get underway. I think it's both of them reflect an interesting shift in what constitutes fine dining, especially given both of y'all's backgrounds.
00:19:43:12 - 00:20:09:21
Speaker 2
And I wonder if y'all agree, or if it's just a different way to perhaps attack the same challenge. Wylie, you came to prominence for this very modern scientific approach, you know, kind of molecular gastronomy type situation. yet you recently turned to two of America's favorite foods, donuts and coffee through Du's Donuts in Brooklyn, and then pizza.
00:20:09:21 - 00:20:23:11
Speaker 2
As the chef and co-owner of Stretch Pizza, which now has three locations in New York. Explain the connection with fine dining. and if it's an indication of where things are going.
00:20:23:13 - 00:20:48:12
Speaker 3
I don't know that I can can draw a line through donuts, pizza, and fine dining. I can draw a line through my approach to cooking, my approach to food, and how we continue to apply the approach that we we did that we used in at wd~50 that we we started really at wd~50, and we carry it through to this day as we try to make better pizza tomorrow than we did yesterday.
00:20:48:12 - 00:21:12:13
Speaker 3
But, we're we're intentionally doing it in a very, casual sort of not fine dining, vibe because, we are hoping that it's the kind of place it and people do come multiple times within a week, and you don't there are not many people, although I'm sure there are some that, you know, deal in fine dining or dine in fine dining multiple times in a week.
00:21:12:13 - 00:21:34:05
Speaker 3
But our our hope like it is equally satisfying to have and operate a restaurant that people might go to maybe 2 or 3 times a year, as as much as it is to operate one that people might go to 2 or 3 times a week. So our enthusiasm, it is parallel, but I don't think that in our approach to making great food is parallel.
00:21:34:07 - 00:21:46:09
Speaker 3
But but the trappings, the environment, the things that you find here, some of the things that define fine dining are not at, play at, at, at the Stretches.
00:21:46:09 - 00:22:19:08
Speaker 2
Fair, I appreciate that and Joann Community Table you've curated a restaurant that is as much a gathering place for the local and visiting community, including quite a number of very wealthy people and celebrities, as well as just general locals, as it is a restaurant that celebrates locally sourced ingredients and innovation. And now you're working on a new project, an adjacent project that feels more and I don't really know, but it feels more events based private dining, pop up, experiential, explorative.
00:22:19:10 - 00:22:21:24
Speaker 2
Why?
00:22:23:16 - 00:22:55:04
Speaker 1
I feel a for me, growth. What? How do I want to grow? How can I take what was built and the team that we have and a create something that's fun that everyone's going to enjoy, then we're going to really enjoy doing together. the community, getting to know the community really well and seeing how they respond to food and gathering and their thirst to be together.
00:22:55:06 - 00:23:18:02
Speaker 1
has driven me to create my, you know, this new, building that I'm building on an event space that will, you know, hopefully again, bring the world together. So it's global, I hope to attract chefs from around the world to come visit. Let it be a space where young chefs want to try out having their own restaurant for a week or two.
00:23:18:04 - 00:23:37:04
Speaker 1
Let them experiment. Let us be their guinea pigs and, you know, have fun with that. so it's I guess it's a little bit of a lab in a way. and it's just something, I think that's fun and creative, and I hope everyone will enjoy it, feel like it's a natural next step.
00:23:37:06 - 00:24:03:05
Speaker 2
And I love that. I think both of your answers, at least to me, begin pointing us in a little bit of a new direction. Not necessarily, as we've just said, towards the future of fine dining, perhaps, but I'm hearing more and more in your answers as as well, and what kind of I'm experiencing and loving, which is, again, less white tablecloth, less, you know, formality and more about experience in the dining experience.
00:24:03:05 - 00:24:24:14
Speaker 2
So like thinking about pop ups and personalization and intimacy slash privacy, education, even collaboration. What do you guys think? Like what are the trends in in dining generally that are like moving perhaps maybe not away from fine dining, but kind of redefining?
00:24:24:16 - 00:24:47:14
Speaker 3
I mean, you guys, Joann mentioned earlier globalization or the, the, you know, a myriad of, of of cultures and cuisines at present. I mean, New York, I think New York, a lot of cities. I but I could only feel comfortable speaking about New York. You know, there's, there's there's an ebb and flow to, to a city's dining, culture.
00:24:47:14 - 00:25:06:20
Speaker 3
And I think that, you know, there are times when New York can be an exciting city to dine in. There are times when other cities are more exciting. And I think right now New York is super exciting. It's it's, you know, I'd say pre-COVID Covid, we saw obviously a real dip and drop in fine dining specifically, but I think fine dining is back in New York.
00:25:06:20 - 00:25:50:05
Speaker 3
But fine dining is back in New York in a very different way than it was pre, you know, those times when it might have been more limited to, to more sort of specifically a European, continental, European, French mostly, some Japanese. But fine dining was pretty limited in terms of the upper echelon restaurants. And but now we see Korea, we see Italy, we see it continue to see Europe, we see Korea, we see all sorts of food, foods and cultures and chefs from all, you know, expressing all sorts of global interests in a way that make dining in the city of New York right now super, super, super exciting.
00:25:50:07 - 00:26:22:04
Speaker 1
and I agree, I love going into the city now. And I miss a lot of it. And I definitely miss the restaurants. yeah. So I again, I think the maybe the playfulness and again, it's just an experience. So fine dining I'm going to say is about creating an experience. That doesn't mean that it has to be hoity-toity, but I think it has to take you transform like, transcend you for the evening.
00:26:22:06 - 00:26:43:06
Speaker 1
So or whatever meal period is. So you sort of want to walk in off the street and have this experience. It's very different from the rest of your day and from the rest of your week and maybe some of the rest of your month. So whatever that looks like could be anything. It doesn't have to be white tablecloths or, Dom Perignon for sure.
00:26:43:08 - 00:27:04:12
Speaker 2
I love that. Okay, we're coming on time. So we're going to do a few rapid fire questions, which means, like the shortest possible answers you guys can give. Okay, so the first one will be three things. The first is what is the role of sustainability and ethics in fine dining today.
00:27:04:14 - 00:27:06:12
Speaker 3
Why do you want to. And you want a quick answer.
00:27:06:15 - 00:27:09:03
Speaker 2
Of course yes as fast as possible.
00:27:09:05 - 00:27:29:05
Speaker 3
Yes. no. I mean, I think I think chefs, it's it's a funny thing that we talk about sustainability a lot because chefs have always been interested in that. So we've always been interested in sustainability. We've always been interested in relationships with the people that grow, produce, raise our food. So sustainability is not going anywhere.
00:27:29:07 - 00:27:30:09
Speaker 2
Jo?
00:27:30:11 - 00:27:37:06
Speaker 1
yeah, very high and more and more aware every day. It's top of our mind.
00:27:37:08 - 00:27:51:08
Speaker 2
Okay. Next pop up, what is the role of technology in the future of fine dining, whether a back of house or a front of house, or in between?
00:27:51:10 - 00:28:13:19
Speaker 1
I always say, I mean, I always say technology is limited. It's the people. It's that's what's another great thing about our industry. It's really about it's all about people. we can take technology can help us in certain ways, but is now definitely not going to take the place of the things that truly matter.
00:28:13:21 - 00:28:29:17
Speaker 3
I mean, technology is how people are going to find us in the future. So I sort of I'm going to go the opposite way and say technology is going to be super vital, and our relationship with technology is going to be we're going to rely on it to get to reach our customers and to find more customers.
00:28:29:19 - 00:28:33:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. So the outbound versus the in inside experience.
00:28:33:24 - 00:28:34:21
Speaker 3
Yes.
00:28:34:23 - 00:28:44:03
Speaker 2
Okay. last one of the role of what is the role of storytelling in fine dining.
00:28:44:05 - 00:29:05:01
Speaker 3
I think storytelling I mean that's that's what cooking is. You know, when you cook you're you're telling stories. You're you're tapping into memories. storytelling is, is is in many ways what we do. It can be very personal. It can be very general. But cooking is kind of always and will always be about storytelling.
00:29:05:03 - 00:29:28:16
Speaker 1
Right. I mean, I agree, I and I always tell people that, you know, a chef by the food on the plate, it's the chef's personality that hits plate. And it can never you can't transfer that. So it's a very personal story that's being told by every chef, every restaurateur.
00:29:28:18 - 00:29:55:05
Speaker 2
I love that. Okay, one more rapid fire, a little different. Before we go to the final question, which is the same in every episode of Future of XYZ, and this one I'm putting you guys both on the spot so you get to fight over who goes first. Name one either top, most favorite idea, trend, person or place that's inspiring you the most, right now in the fine dining space.
00:29:55:07 - 00:29:56:14
Speaker 2
and why?
00:29:56:16 - 00:29:57:22
Speaker 3
Go ahead, Joann.
00:29:58:06 - 00:30:05:08
Speaker 1
I need to think of that. That's tough. you know, you more in it than I am. I'm just a country girl now.
00:30:08:01 - 00:30:11:21
Speaker 1
what are the the give me the the choices.
00:30:11:21 - 00:30:14:17
Speaker 2
Idea, trend person or place.
00:30:14:19 - 00:30:46:13
Speaker 1
Oh. Well, I just because I'm so insulated here where I live just inspires me every day. the farmers that show up at my door, I get to go drive to pick up our meat, the farmer that shows up and says, I have these cucumbers. Can you do anything with them or I get a phone call. I have a half a case of strawberries.
00:30:46:13 - 00:31:11:11
Speaker 1
Do you want them? I mean, these farmers are so inspirational and that's what drives, I think, our chefs and our customers. And I'm so proud and happy when I get to say these were dropped off by so-and-so this morning and now they're like, these are delicious. So I'm going to say cheers to the farmers. They inspire me every day.
00:31:11:13 - 00:31:13:24
Speaker 2
I love that. Wylie?
00:31:14:01 - 00:31:35:07
Speaker 3
I mean, I again, the city itself, I think New York and the people that live here are, are, are constantly inspiring. I think that, you know, we have an amazing city with an amazing mix of people that some that are from here, some that are from all over. And I and I just think that New York City itself is really an inspiring place to be.
00:31:35:07 - 00:31:49:09
Speaker 3
I feel lucky to have been here basically, you know, for 50 years at this point. And, I, you know, I'm constantly proud of my city and excited by my city and glad and grateful for for being here.
00:31:49:11 - 00:31:51:03
Speaker 2
I love both of those answers.
00:31:51:07 - 00:32:11:05
Speaker 1
Could I just add? So I think it's interesting that we both feel that way. And I'd like to say that maybe even a restaurant has its own terroir, I totally agree. Yours being Manhattan, mine being the countryside in Connecticut. And it's sort of what's at the essence of our restaurants.
00:32:11:07 - 00:32:12:00
Speaker 3
For sure.
00:32:12:02 - 00:32:30:22
Speaker 2
I love that. okay, last question. Same one for everyone, every episode. In conclusion, what's your greatest hope for the future of, in this case, fine dining in 25 years? Which brings us to 2050.
00:32:30:24 - 00:32:35:10
Speaker 3
I hope I'm still here for it.
00:32:35:12 - 00:32:39:23
Speaker 2
I have a good feeling pizza. Pizza is the world's greatest food.
00:32:40:00 - 00:32:41:07
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah.
00:32:41:09 - 00:33:14:24
Speaker 3
I mean, you know, I again, it's it's going to be really interesting to see where we go. I'm, I hope that I'm still around. I hope that I'm still able to contribute to it. I think, you know, I still have some unrealized ideas, and I hope that they can, that they can find their way. But I, you know, I get great inspiration from the fact that, you know, some of the people I worked for, like Jean-Georges and Danielle and, and that they're that they're still, you know, 75, you know, or however old they both are I don't know exactly, but they're close to that number and still, really making contribution relevant contributions.
00:33:14:24 - 00:33:46:14
Speaker 3
I mean, John George just I mean, Danielle just opened, you know, La Tete d’Or right across the street from us and this last year, and it's it's, you know, a new version of a steakhouse. It's happening in a city that is, you know, got what you might think of is are enough steakhouses. So I just I just hope that I'm able to find that same level of enthusiasm and sort of vibrancy that these, these, those that come before me have because it's it's inspiring to see that they're still at it and, and, and excited and new and not tired way.
00:33:46:16 - 00:34:12:20
Speaker 1
I love that. I mean, I hope that the public still finds great enjoyment in gathering together around a table and enjoying curated food, beautiful food that people have worked really hard on creating for them and still want that experience, you know, and that that and they put their cell phones away.
00:34:12:22 - 00:34:23:21
Speaker 2
I think that's a beautiful place to end. Wylie Dufresne, Joann Makovitsky thank you both so much for joining me on, this special Thanksgiving episode of Future of XYZ.
00:34:23:23 - 00:34:28:06
Speaker 3
Thank you. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Gobble gobble.
00:34:28:08 - 00:34:48:16
Speaker 2
Gobble gobble. To all the Americans out there and for everyone else in the world, thank you for listening and tuning in. visit New York City, I think is and Connecticut are two of the messages. and we'll see you again in two weeks. If you didn't already know that, you can watch on YouTube, check out Future of XYZ there, or subscribe wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
00:34:48:18 - 00:34:52:22
Speaker 2
we'll see you again. And thank you, thank you.