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The Catch Up Podcast brings you candid conversations with industry leaders, consultants, and change-makers from the Microsoft Dynamics and tech ecosystem. Hosted by Phillip Blackmore, Sales Director at Catch Resource Management, each episode dives into the real stories behind business transformation, career pivots, and scaling success. Expect thoughtful interviews, practical insights, and honest reflections. Brought to you by Catch Resource Management, a leading UK recruitment specialist for Microsoft Dynamics and ERP talent, this podcast is your inside track to the people shaping the future of enterprise technology.
Welcome to the Catch Up podcast today,
where I, Philip Blackmore, am joined by
Shazad Butt.
It's about the transformation journey. It's
all about people. It's knowing your
subject matter.
It's knowing the industry and then
putting the client first.
So for you then to make that step and
think, I'm going to go, I'm going to be
an independent.
Was that quite a step for you or were you
very much well prepared?
And there was one thing I realized. It
was actually how lonely all of a sudden I
felt very quickly.
You've got to try it out, mate. You've
got to give it a go. You've got to.
You cannot just let this itch be unscratched
for longer.
And if you are really good in what you do,
which obviously if you're thinking along
those lines, you've got curious mind.
And that's the step to success in my view.
I've known Shazad for well over 10 years.
From his early inception as an enterprise
architect right through to modern day as
founder, director of ERP Advisors.
Good afternoon, Shazad. How are you?
Afternoon, Phil. Very well. Thank you.
Yourself?
Very good. Very good indeed. Thank you.
I'm actually really excited about having
a chat with you today.
I've been thinking about it for the last
sort of few weeks and just kind of, I
guess, a personal relationship in terms
of how long we've known each other.
But there's actually sort of part of it
when I was thinking back to sort of, I
guess, how long I've known you and our
touch point in terms of whether I became
to kind of to meet you for the first time.
But prior to that, I don't really have, I
guess, much knowledge of, I guess, your
entry point into the technology space and
then thus the sort of Microsoft dynamic
space.
And I always think it's really
interesting for kind of our listeners to
kind of take people on a little bit of a
career journey in terms of, you know, how
you got into the market, the roles that
you perform through your career.
And sort of bring us up to, you know,
modern day as sort of founder, director,
practice owner.
But I think it's really interesting
sometimes to talk people through that
journey.
You know, someone that's there sat today
starting their career as an IT consultant
or in the technology space and thinking,
well, how do I get to where you've got to,
you know?
So if in the first instance, I think it'd
be really great to kind of, you know,
start off there, Shazad.
What was your first technology role?
Who were you with?
What was the role you were doing?
Just a little bit of an insight into that
would be, I think, a fascinating way to
start the conversation.
Yeah, no, thanks, Phil, for having me.
And I must say, I was quite excited
myself.
And it's quite an opportunity to share,
you know, your experiences and connect
further with a wider audience who doesn't
know me yet, right?
So going back, started as a BA, believe
it or not, I was a business analyst.
Yeah.
Mainly working on the ERP kind of
aggressive space, but nothing too
exciting.
I moved on to SAP, where one of my
clients, we were implementing a large,
quite a large, I'll say mid-size in
Europe, but quite a decent-sized UK
company.
And we were implementing SAP.
And that was kind of like my turning into
from a consultant with some kind of
normal average-scale ERPs into some large-scale
SAP.
And that program carried on for a short
while.
And we finished the design phase.
And that was the kind of entry to Dynamics
when the client decided that the project
is taking too long.
And I was on the client side, you know, I
was internal hire.
Sure.
I was part of IT.
We didn't call that transformation team,
but in fact, we call it like ERP team.
So that was kind of just the ERP-focused
team.
And we spent good, I think now looking
back, probably under a year.
We had finished the design phase.
And when we did a bit of POC, working
with another partner, quite a big name in
SAP land.
And it was myself and the IT director
then and the managing director of the
firm, kind of sitting and looking at what's
being presented, which is going to be the
future of that particular company for a
foreseeable future.
Sure.
And that's 20 years plus.
Yeah.
And the managing director, he was a
family-run business, very much, right?
And quite open and quite direct.
And he's looking at it and he's kind of
in a very healthy way challenging the
partner that I'm not sure, A, I'm getting
what I actually thought I'll be getting.
Obviously, the project is taking longer
and then the cost and the rest of it.
I'm finding no to very little flexibility,
you know, we have expanded.
Our growth journey is just enormous in
the last 10 years or so.
I feel like I've been pigeonholed into my
vision to say this is all you're going to
get and live with it because you wanted
that.
And that was eye-opening.
I look back, to be honest, Phil, and I'm
thinking, you know, I must be like, what,
24, I guess?
24, 25.
And, you know, you sit with these some
very senior and quite intelligent people
and you're like, it kind of makes sense
what this guy is saying.
But then you're kind of in the middle and
then you're working with a partner and
the partner has got pretty much every
single reason under the sun that why that
is it and why they are right.
And you're kind of in the middle as a,
you know, young consultant who's kind of
learning his ropes.
You know, it's something that's
definitely not feeling right.
And myself and the IT director back then,
we took it our own to say, let's look at
the market.
Let's look at what the ERP is out there.
And Microsoft had just acquired Navision
back then.
And that was Xaptar 3.0, moving on from 2.5.
So, yeah, I mean, it was kind of, I can
say easily, it was kind of like love at
first sight.
You look at the product, you see that,
you know, it's flexible.
It can evolve.
It can transform the business, working
with the business as opposed to just
being pigeonholing a business into a
specific ways of working.
I would say that was kind of like my
early Xaptar role.
And then moving on from there, I did some
work.
So, I worked for the same client.
We went live.
It was quite a successful delivery.
Moving on to another partner from
consulting role.
I must say, back then, Dynamics
consultants could do everything.
I think you probably know Phil Yenhoff as
well when we spoke last time.
We are finance consultants.
We can be technical specialists.
And we are supply chain.
And you kind of learn various things.
And as a young consultant, I think it's
quite invaluable to have that experience.
And I call myself quite actually
fortunate to have the opportunity moving
on to consulting firms.
And then working on some large global
projects.
And the rest is history, as you know,
here we are.
Yeah, absolutely.
And when you talk back, because it's
quite interesting.
And when you talk of the piece with the
organization, looking at SAP and then
going on to Microsoft Dynamics.
And I know SAP has always been described
as, I guess, it's not overly flexible in
terms of it's like, this is how SAP works.
So, this is how you're going to now work.
Or you have to adapt or customers have to
adapt a little bit to the system, not the
other way around.
Whereas, as you mentioned, with Microsoft
Dynamics, as it came along, extremely
flexible.
Is that, you know, in some cases seen as
a very positive thing.
But were there any examples on your
journey when you were working in that
early days of Microsoft Dynamics where it
was almost too flexible?
Like customers could kind of say, well, I
just want it to do that.
I want it to do that.
And then you get sort of, you go down
this rabbit hole of you're customizing
something within an inch of its life.
So, then actually it's almost a totally
different system.
It's just interesting to get your
thoughts on that.
Yeah, that's an interesting one.
And I look back and, you know, obviously
moving from SAP and, like I said, at 24,
25 years old, learning the flexibility of
the product and seeing how it can adapt
to the nature of the business.
And very quickly, you know, burning my
hands and learning, that's a bit too much.
You know, that is like, you know, you go
to the finance folks and say, right, how
many ways you analyze your P&L?
And they're like, well, 20 different ways.
I'm like, ooh, that's a bit too much.
Is three not a better way?
You can dimensionalize it three ways.
And to a certain extent, the constraints
are felt for better.
And then, you know, it's like kind of
whole, you do the 360 degree realizing
that it's not SAP.
It wasn't Dynamics.
It's all about people.
It's all about transformation journey.
It's all about change.
It's working with a client, putting the
client first.
So, actually, it was kind of around, I
would say, probably about 2010 or thereabouts
when I kind of was coming to the tail end
of my employment, if lack of a better
word.
Sure.
Before I got into this more independent
journey, literally, it was like one of
the moments were coming to me to see, you
know, I'm seeing the flashes of goodness.
You know, I'm seeing what good looks like.
But there's no consistency in a single
project by a single organization I work
with or around.
And I've been around pretty much quite a
big chunk of the world or different
continents delivering.
I look back and I thought, ooh, was SAP?
You know, was SAP the answer?
Was SAP the right solution?
Have I ever moved too fast?
And to be honest, Phil, that was the
realization that it actually wasn't, you
know, where I started, if I look back to
that particular partner in the situation,
it wasn't the product that was falling
short per se.
It was actually the way it was being
implemented.
It was the approach.
It was the way you're going about the
project by not listening to the client
and not working with them to define the
success.
Not waiting for the, you know, give me 24
months and have a long and I'll show you
what that looks like after, you know, X,
X thousand million pound spend.
It's working with them and playing back
to them before even you have a product to
show.
So it was actually, to a certain extent,
the system agnostic realization of the
transformation journey that I felt is
lacking.
And there are a number of reasons, you
know, I learned that along the way.
It wasn't like, like, fix like that.
Anybody do it.
It needed specialist skill set.
It needed very open, transparent team.
And it does carry a risk as a business
where I'm looking at it now that you
could actually potentially have the
client walking away from the journey
because you told them too much.
And they realize, actually, ERP, I
thought, is my solution.
Actually, it might well become at some
point my problem.
So why don't I just sort out the other
bits that needed to be sorted around it
and then come back at the right time?
I think that kind of like, I call it like
you mentioned SAP or the lack of
flexibility.
Yeah.
And I'm a bit too much flexible.
I, when I kind of moved away from kind of
a bit more fixed, do this, implement that
to becoming independent and advising the
client and working with them.
I used to give like a briefcase kind of
analogy.
To me, it was like, if you want a briefcase,
which quite often is what's considered to
be the right thing to do with the tools
in it and say, here we go, sir.
Twice a day with a glass of water, you
will be happy, healthy ever after.
And that is not me.
That is wrong.
Because let's define the briefcase.
Can we sit down on the table together and
figure out what briefcase you need?
What color you need?
What should be in it?
And also being very transparent that it's
not like one big result that you open the
briefcase and you get everything you want
in it.
Let's work on the journey together.
So you have options or optionality, if
you like, to opt in and out along the way.
Of course.
Make sure you put the vision right.
You make sure you lay the path and the
roadmap of two, three years and then work
towards it.
So, you know, just kind of replaying your
question.
I kind of came out of SAP, you know, not
so flexible, dynamic, so flexible, or the
other way around, or this is the right
tool or that's the right tool.
It's about the transformation journey.
It's all about people.
It's knowing your subject matter.
It's knowing the industry and then
putting client first.
I think that, to me, was the main lesson
learned.
So, yeah, if I go back 25 years and go
back to the same implementation and if ERP
advisors happen to be the partner, I'll
work with a client.
And there is a possibility that we finish
the job we started and the client will be
happy getting what they wanted.
Absolutely.
And then in terms of, see, we talk about
that journey, sort of early days in terms
of consultancy, working consultancy, sort
of what we call like a permanent job and
then becoming more independent.
From your perspective, Shazad, when you
were kind of working in, I guess, the
partner channel within the Microsoft
dynamic space, early career, is there
anything sort of on that early journey
when you kind of look back at your kind
of, and I know you've talked about it a
little bit there, but like kind of
learnings and experiences that like you
look at today and think there was some
great sort of takeaways, some positives
where I looked at.
And do you know what, when I remember
when I worked there or I learned this and
I thought that was a great piece of
advice from someone or not saying a
mentor, but just someone that you worked
with that was maybe, you know, further
down their career journey.
And you looked at that and you thought,
and that sort of stuck with you and it
stays with you.
And I guess equally, were there some
learnings on the other side of things
where you kind of thought, I'm seeing
things being done that I think if I had
the, I guess, autonomy to do it, how I
perceive it, I'd maybe change things a
little bit.
Well, I mean, it's interesting.
Phil, I was a consultant for good, I
think about 10 to 12 years working as an
employee.
And then I was independent for a couple
of years after that.
And then obviously we got into the ERP
advisors and then all of that journey.
I think there's a lot of, to me, I love
to share a lot of stories, but there's
one moment which sticks to my mind
because I must say that was a moment of
felt.
Think again, Shazant, what do we need to
do?
And that was actually, I do go back as
well, 2008 or 2009 because I had my first
child and just came out of kind of paternity
leave and sleepless nights or beautiful
nights, I call them.
And then I was just going back to work
and there was a global kind of a telecom
client that was quite messy for that
particular organization.
And they had just acquired another
subsidiary business in Ghana, in Accra.
So it's like, oh, you get back and you've
got some SAT background, you know
dynamics pretty well, you're the
architect, blah, blah, blah.
And we need to write a business case.
So, you know, it's, and you know a bit
about mergers and acquisitions.
So could you just fly out to Ghana and,
you know, just write a business case?
It's kind of a two horse race and you're
a more suited person.
It's really interesting actually when I
look back and I'm like, oh, I flew there
and it was hilarious actually.
So I'm the, you know, D365 specialist
architect who's going to do some business
case and figure out what that particular
telecom company should do in Accra,
given it's acquired by a big giant, a
global giant.
And SAP, I kind of like and brush up my
skills a little bit and, you know,
justify the pros and cons and be very
transparent, very honest.
And the reason I was sent there was
because it was there using Dynamics 365.
Well, Xaptop back then, right?
Yeah.
They're using Dynamics, right?
So you're one of the specialists who go
there.
And long in the short is I got there and
it took me like the first one hour.
I was just back from eternity of eternity
and all of that.
And I've just got there.
And I just realized, actually, I figured
out they were not using Dynamics or Xaptop.
They are in Dynamics Great Plains, which
is a completely different product.
And I was like, goodness me.
So I'm here to represent you.
And I want to write the business case.
And then they are on the third product.
So kind of obviously called back home to
the bosses.
What do you want me to do?
And the answer is it still is two-horse
race.
Figure out, you know, it's the business
case between the two.
I'm like, but they've got something else.
And that seems pretty much all right.
Now, I'm not a specialist in it.
Sure.
When you had to call a friend, I believe
tonight was a week.
And I still remember.
Spend Saturdays and they're learning a
little bit from the Great Plains
and calling my friend to help me with the
bonds of the product itself.
Well, in the end, on Monday, I was like,
yes, I've got actually the solution.
Actually, there's a Great Plains.
It's okay for the time being.
You don't need to migrate because they're
really struggling
with the serial number tracking of the
phones.
And Great Plains can give you that.
Fine.
Perfect.
Excited and dialed in a call on a Monday
morning to say, guys,
actually, there's a solution number three,
which seems to be the right fit.
And anyway, it was like, no, no, the two
options and the options.
And I'm like, I'm not so sure really,
guys.
I'm not so sure why that is a solution.
And that was kind of like, for me, those
were the moments, you know,
clarity with that.
I'm still to say, obviously, I must say,
I'll be lying to you if I say,
ah, that was a day I said ERP advice.
No, I just thought, you know what?
Yeah.
It was completely independent right now.
And if I write, it doesn't need a hundred
page.
I need no boilerplate.
All I need is three pages to explain the
pros and cons, define the problem
statement,
and tell the client, as you write the
solution.
So that's kind of where, you know, I look
back and, but again, you know, you kind
of like,
at times your hands are tied, you do what
you got to do.
And I just look back and I say, and tell
pretty much anyone and everyone who's
going through
this journey to say, you know, just work
on the honesty and transparency, you know,
within yourself, within your organization,
and then just let it manifest itself.
You know, you don't have to believe in
doing what you're told to do,
as long as you're reasonably in a healthy
way vocal about it and explain what you
believe is the right
thing to do.
You never know that the client and your
bosses in the organization listen to it
and help you
deliver that. And if that isn't happening,
at least you know it, you know.
You've got a choice, haven't you?
You either stay and you do as you're kind
of told to a certain extent, or you think
this maybe
isn't the right environment for me and I'll
go and make a change.
Exactly. And, you know, I mean, like I
said, I love to say that I've been
through every project
and we've done everything a hundred
percent right, but can I always say that
just aim for good,
you know, don't aim for perfection.
Good is pretty good, actually.
In our world, it's very good, yeah.
In my view, exactly. Good is perfect.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And
then you move from that sort of, I guess,
what we call a permanent roles, and then
you make that sort of independent step in
terms of you kind
of go out. So for you then to make that
step and think, I'm going to go, I'm
going to be an
independent, I'm going to provide those
advisory services, your learnings. Was
that quite a step for
you or were you very much well prepared
and in your mind of like, no, no, I know
this is what I kind
of need to do? Or was there a bit of a,
you know, family, mortgage, life, all the
rest of it? Did that
play a part in your decision making?
In my view, or at least up until now, you
know, if you believe in yourself, then
you believe in the outcome. So to me, if
I'm being honest with you, from proper
employment to being a very independent
consultant to running this consultancy
now, there was never actually the
defining or deciding factor was to say,
right, that is more secure, you know,
that's kind of leaves a bit more for my
kids.
Yeah.
very important things one must consider i
must say i was a bit naive and i believe
in
goodness in the world i i do believe in
it i believe you do good and the good
happens to you
what will make me wake up in the morning
and be happy enjoy and celebrate what i
do and i feel
like i've added value albeit in very
small community but i have given
something and that
makes me a happy person and that makes me
a happy father and and happy husband and
uh the the cash
flow will just follow and and just
believe in it and trust in that one there
is a risky thing i must
say for those independents out there or
employees out there thinking uh you know
you're gonna take
a leap of faith and you know go
independent route and there was one thing
i realized it wasn't to do
with goodness me i'm gonna pay my
mortgage which obviously we all worry all
the time and sure as well
it was actually how uh lonely all of a
sudden i felt very quickly to say you
know i knew what good
looks like and i i i'm gonna do it now
because i'm given the opportunity to go
and work on this very
large global program you know rollout
dynamics and kind of engineering
construction industry and then
you know it was so exciting and it was a
senior role i'm young you know it right
so it's like yeah i mean
it was still was the early good days when
i look back at some of the big early
projects within
dynamics i think of northgate vehicle leasing
as one i think of amec as another you
know these were
some really the product was growing it
was getting exciting the market was was
fun it was moving you
know it was the product was developing it
was developing and we i think this that
was kind of like
for me the the learning there was a few
fewer to be honest quite few and and it
was it was that you
know all the things i've been saying now
i'm still a human i need to eat i need to
drink i need to breathe
and to do all of all i need to do really
even if i work 24 7 it's just not gonna
cut it that was kind of like
where i felt that this very independent
route is only successful if you're
surrounded by this like-minded people
uh that you could influence and the the
way industry was and and i'm pretty sure
outside europe
the advisors might still be that the
independents are considered to be that
for you come and finish
and and leave and i was fortunate that i
was quite a senior strategic role but
albeit as an
independent and i could influence uh
building the team around me as well
sometimes you just take a leap of faith
and then the next step follows and to me
that was the entry to
say you've got a it's not a a dynamics
kind of team of specialist you know you
call all the the
profiles and certifications you kind of
list them that's given that's implicit it's
not something
uh i should be proud of but the team i've
built is a is a community it's like it's
a mindset
that that's growing now in in the
organization and that was and that was
fantastic and that was a
project that led to uh what i call erp
advisors now because yeah same values
mindset and to certain
extent if you are and i know you are
connected well uh with the dynamics
community or around it
quite few of them are working and
representing erp advisors and they are
and we they are the reason we
are who we are really so so yeah it's it's
a lot of learnings along the way and
there wasn't like one
day one project one week that you like
that was the definition of what you do
today do you think as well
because i see it a little bit now and it's
sometimes not difficult to have the
conversation but sometimes
i feel and it's not one of these things
of oh you know how it was different than
10 years ago to what it is now but
there is sometimes a bit of an element
where i feel that you've got to go out
and become that independent
to earn your stripes and to be at a level
where you're very comfortable and
competent and proficient
in your skill set and your capabilities
before going out and doing that and when
you look at shazad at the
market you know you you have a lot of
visibility of the market in terms of
someone that employs people in this space
and do you find when you look look at
that piece that you know when you look at
giving advice to
someone if someone came along to you and
they're sort of thinking about moving or
going on that
independent journey or or permanent that
i guess the question i'm asking is when
do you know that you're
right to do it and is that something that's
a personal feeling or is it something you
feel that like
skills experience in time will tell you
that or has it got to be i guess like
what you said that
you were very much like you knew that's
what you were going to do that's how you're
going to do it
you know you put good things out there it
comes back to you it's one of the things
i discussed phil with
um with some of the dependents we've
hired in the past and they come as as
friends and they ask you
pretty much the same thing to say hey i'm
considering that and and i'll tell you
what i always tell pretty
much anyone and everyone is that the
question you need to ask yourself is is
why and i think that will
tell you what if the why is driven by as
the name suggests independent that you
feel like you could
add value genuinely add value based on
your skill set your skill set could be
anything could be a project
manager a technical specialist an
accountant a management consultant you
know you think you can add value
uh by creating your own delivery machine
and bring it to the organization albeit
to to a partner or to
the employee you gotta try it out mate
you got to give it a go you got to you
cannot just let this itch
be unscratched for longer um and if you
are really good in what you do which
obviously if you're thinking
along those lines you've got curious mind
and that's a the first step to to success
in my view if you fail just
don't be afraid of it and don't think oh
it's gonna look how is that gonna look at
my cv or i don't
want to put my name on this particular
project because that was a failed project
i don't think
those things i actually i i don't mind
associate me with something that the
world will say is going
yeah and i'll be like let me see what i
could do let me try my best to rescue and
the worst case i
couldn't say i couldn't say but you've
given a best shot so i would say if you've
got the curious mind give it a go
if the why is because of that reason if
the why is because of some more freedom
of the hours of work
you could choose or um or days of work
you could choose i hate to break the bad
news to you it doesn't
work like that project demands are the
project demands if you're a good
consultant whilst you said that i
agreed with my on my contract it's
whatever you know eight two three o'clock
they're gonna do school
runs i'm sorry you will not know the job
at three you will call your partner you
know your husband your
wife say can you do the school run today
i'm really stuck up with this meeting and
if that sort of person
you are think again that is not a
compelling enough reason it may work
short short term but in the long
term i wouldn't i wouldn't believe it's
going to be sustainable for you to be
successful
if the reason is third which obviously is
we all look at that as well which is a
commercial side then
maybe narrow it down perhaps define a
period of time in your life to say you
know what that's my
that's my opportunity time to play around
with um with a bit of my own pnl um and
see how that goes
then that's kind of slightly different so
as with erp transformation there is no
one size fits all
just don't look at look my next door
neighbor did it and they did all right
you know uh yeah may not be
a thing for you and the last thing you
want is not doing something that you
thought you would have been
really good at you just don't want that
you know it's like they say that the the
shots you didn't take
or the ones you are gonna regret so give
that a go but be very careful in defining
the boundaries
around it and perhaps time span as well
uh and speak with the speak with the
people who've been
there done that and not necessarily
follow but learn uh what you could avoid
yeah i think it's viking you
know being prepared and and understanding
what you're going into i think that's a
great point because
sometimes there is you hear that i'm
doing this because i want to work like
less hours for more money
and it's like if you're going to go and
be a truly independent contractor it's
kind of the other
way you actually have the expectation is
that you know you are a specialist
delivering a service
and there's no real there's not a time
piece on that um and that sometimes is
often often missed and
and also a work with the organizations
where you know getting through the door
is you know
independent contractor as an employee or
whatnot but work with the organization
once you're through the door
you're respected the same way because the
last thing you want is you you don't feel
valued just because
you are compensated slightly differently
so so work with the organization you kind
of blend in
and the culture is such that that allows
that to happen then that would be the
right place for you
and then when i look back at shazade you've
worked on when i think about microsoft
dynamics projects
you've worked on some of the larger
largest sort of global programs i know
there's a lot of large
programs over there but when you kind of
think back and you kind of look at your
your extensive
experience that you do have across those
large scale dynamics projects are there
when you look at
sort of like they're common pitfalls that
you sometimes see that you think that now
in the role that you're in
now that you think your learnings over
those sort of that period that allows you
to kind of go in
that does help you ensure a sort of suits
call it smoother or more successful
deployment but when you
look back at that experience has that
experience that you had on those large
global projects really being
able to kind of shape your i guess vision
and awareness of potential pitfalls and
what and and it'd be
interesting to know and especially share
with the audience are there some common
themes and pitfalls that you often see in
these
these these large programs i guess don't
always have to be large programs but just
sort of fundamentally
these kind of programs and projects yeah
i think uh the way i look at it is phil
that it's like
the pitfalls bizarre enough are very
similar uh between large or oh i mean notwithstanding
the
the kind of global side of things you
know in in in the east the taxation is
different in some regulatory
compliance and and whatnot in the 1099 in
the us and there's kind of nuances you
need to be aware of and
and you need to be very well aware before
you get into that project or delivery for
that particular
client but when you look at the pitfalls
actually they are not million miles from
a very small project to
medium to to very large but the the
reason we talk about the pitfalls of the
large ones is because the the
the consequences are quite dire and the
the impact because of a poor config
delivery or or undefined
business process or audit issue or
compliance issues is quite big and
visible and a lot of people or in
some cases regions get impacted by that
whereas if the company was quite small
and they find a bit of a
compliance issue and they may or may not
even be getting audited on it and they
can write their internal
kind of course correct it and and move on
so the pitfalls i mean going to that i
mean like i said
the impact that kind of determines that
how bad it was but the the the common
mistake to me is and it's
an interesting one because in my young
days i have also used this kind of the
language of a cookie cutter
to say well yeah yeah let's define a
cookie cutter and then roll it out you
know from global to
and it's it's it's it's it's great i'm
not saying it's wrong but you know as i've
aged kind of
realize or any up your advice is we
realize that let's define the cookie
cutter with the client because
that is very important and the cookie
cutter isn't you're just a free package
solution to say there
you go that's the cookie cutter let's go
and roll it out and that's where the
challenges cannot come in
sorry the the birds out so you might be
hearing um i'll i'll shut the door in a
sec the the the
the challenge is is that the cookie
cutter that it takes to those global
organizations they quite often
they weren't very well defined to to hold
water for a larger audience when the user
community goes from
500 to 1000 to 10 000 to 20 000 then and
now you cannot just write a little course
correction or did
not in the form of some detective control
you actually have to prevent it from
happening
so i think to me the pitfalls are that
look at the don't use technology as their
solution user technology
as a platform as an enabler as a medium
to what the process and the business is
going to be fitting on it
and and then see if that's going to work
and if that doesn't then maybe you don't
need to change the
technology but actually make sure you
define that process compliance note
whatever it might be
with the business before it hits because
that's where the the projects get the bad
press and and
and rightly so because the technology
itself wasn't stopping you to work around
it but we just haven't
surfaced it because we didn't we didn't
know it well enough and to be honest i
mean i you know again i'll
say myself i was lucky to be part of that
amac kind of project at the outset when
the when the product you
said it absolutely right the product wasn't
100 ready for the company of this size
what it enabled me to
do leading the large team um was to
understand the business at the end
possible level and that was to me
a once in a lifetime opportunity and um
yeah and i did capitalize that a lot i
mean you may or may not
recall lots of visits to canada us yeah i
remember um um far east etc just to to to
learn why did i have
to go there to learn you know what is
socks compliance which of course is quite
a big thing
it wasn't like as well known when i had
to do my kind of mastering of um of socks
and and that was amazing
for me to learn all of those things to
see how i'm gonna use the same technology
i'm not gonna read the
the whole thing to work on it and learn
the business kind of pretty much various
verticals almost all key
aspects of the business around the
technology that was the opportunity i
think if anyone has that
avail it you know work on those projects
even if you don't have a very senior role
it doesn't matter
bring your curious mind in and learn what's
going around in the business
and uh and that to me is a key to avoid
those pitfalls it's unlikely gonna be a
uh a product
or a technology or a piece of code that's
gonna let you down it's how it's being
used that potentially
will and then obviously there's a lot of
buzzwords with the data and and all of
that of course all the
right things that i don't need to say
everybody yeah of course ping both
starting erp would read all
those things they all kind of valuable
lessons as well yeah no absolutely and
then i guess when i
look at where you are today with with erp
advisors and your business there it's a
it's a rapidly growing
organization in the microsoft dynamic
space what do you think in terms of you
and you're doing some
really there's some really positive
things that you're doing and i enjoy
working with you and always
have done but when you look at it what do
you think are your kind of core
differentiators unique value
propositions that really has helped
accelerate your growth as a business over
the last five
six seven years for me in terms of
knowing you as a person i think when i
always talk to people about
you and the business i always talk about
i guess the kind of the humanness of the
business as in like
we are all human beings and that there's
a real respect and an understanding for
people
um their lives that you know work is part
of life but there is out you know people
have lives outside
of work and those kind of things and that
there's a real understanding and
appreciation for that but
that's something that i talk about that i
kind of i guess i externally present to
people but yeah i'd
love to know from you shazad in terms of
your thinking from that perspective i
think this is it phil you
kind of said it in a way that the the
human or the people side of it to me is
is what differentiates us
from from i can go as far as saying
pretty much any other partner out there
it's the people that we have
who represent us it's a culture that we
have is the is a differentiator and i
think it was not long ago
we were just having like a leadership
meeting and uh and somebody said and it
was really interesting to hear
they were like somehow we've created a
culture where people don't want to let
their teammate down
or their team member in their team who
may report them down nobody cares about
you shazad or
or their line managers and that was the
most beautiful thing i must say i ever
heard because if you foster
and nurture that culture where you are uh
and it was actually came out of one
specific place where
you know a chap in the in in australia is
uh he's is working some some crazy hours
on that particular
day to match with the chap in the us's
kind of problem with nobody knowing is
like solving somebody
else's problem because uh it's got to be
done and um and he's the one who's
actually you know uh young
family and all that working some absolute
crazy hours that particular day obviously
i found that second and
a third hand and uh and we acknowledge
that and and all the rest of it but it's
that culture of and how
many of those instances happens every day
i promise you plenty with the president
all the way going from
far east singapore um australia to to us
texas and europe in between and and india
and and all
all of those instances happen as we speak
right now but nobody makes any big deal
they just do it
because that's the right thing to do and
because they want to do it want to do you
know what i mean
there's a difference like when we're
talking about the beginning people want
to do it because of that
reason you've just explained they want to
do it for their team they're not just
doing it because you're
saying or someone above them there okay
it's you need to work these hours what
what a great you know
environment to create and culture to
create i love it i genuinely do it's it's
it's it's obviously there's
obviously going to be company kpis we
always look at the employee satisfaction
and service and all the
usual stuff but we don't ever worry about
those things because technically nothing
is mandated on
people other than do the right thing to
do it right and they just do it they just
do it and and yeah i think
that to me is a big difference um how we
do it how we go about it is um you know
there's no secret
recipe you know i'll share like right now
tell you one thing we do and we kind of
like hire interview
and as part of the hiring process you
know is it's amusing when people say you
know show me the job
description and and it's very important
because it kind of narrows down what you're
after
but that match to the job description
does not mean you're matched to the
organization
so if we kind of going through having a
casual chat um in the first round of
interviews and the
and the person has uh mastered the the
hack out of the bullet points in the jd
some they knew themselves
very well some they had to google chat jbt
whatnot to master and you could tell in
the in the interview
that they kind of like absolutely
mastered that bit that doesn't mean that
you are still the the
the right the right person in that
particular place equally there's been
quite few instances where
even during the kind of interview the
person's like actually by the looks of it
the the skills
that you're after actually is not my
special speciality we still hire the
person because there's another
kind of job description if you like um
out there but we felt the person is right
and the person has to
fit in and there's another place a person
fits in and uh and and boy they've done
so well in that
different job than they initially applied
for and i think it's like right people
fitting in the right
everyone is people are great it's just
where they fit in the organization you
just need to be very
careful with that because that demotivates
them if they are undervalued undermined
of course uh and
they're not in the learning journey they're
not challenged enough or over challenged
whichever way
so it's kind of like finding a good
balance and then like i said before it's
a mindset it just lives and
breathes itself you don't need to worry
about it just runs itself yeah no
absolutely and i get if we look
a head to the future a lot of exciting
things happening with the product you
know there's a lot
of conversations around i guess
disruption within sort of the technology
transformation space with the
sort of new technologies and things out
there like that how can you i guess can
you vision do you have
much of a plan can you see where you'd
like to be in terms of over the next
three to five years is
there a bit of a clear idea of where you'd
like to go where you'd like to be and and
and i guess how maybe
you you may you may get there we have and
i will add to it that the vision when you
when you translate
your vision into reality it has to have
some flexibility and some evolution
component added to it
so vision wise yes we have where we are
today we had our vision three years back
where we needed to be
did we did we tweak did we make
adjustments oh heck yeah we we went to
certain regions where i did not
think we we needed to go but to be
effective in what we do and they get get
the best value in that
particular market in and understanding
the local needs we we had to expand in
certain regions so
so the vision will change the disruptors
you're saying i wouldn't call disruptors
i'll call them enablers and
and and that is just the way it is so
though we are fortunate because we kind
of were born out of the
uh the core principle as we kind of
touched before that you know don't don't
don't carry the briefcase
work with the companies that that
actually will will define the briefcase
with you and then help them
uh help delivering that work the
milestones with them don't hide behind
your 100 page project plan and some
very clever uh statement of works that
nobody could read and uh and everything
is written to protect
yourself from a layer energy on where you're
gonna take the client don't don't stress
too much if it goes
pear-shaped then you know what you're
gonna what you're gonna do you know you
need to protect yourself
don't don't be honest with them be
transparent with them if it goes pear-shaped
they will they will work
with you to fix it they will fix even
your problems if you've got that
partnership build so to me phil the
the vision hasn't changed the vision is
exactly the same as five years ago which
will be next five years
we want to be the partner of choice i'm
not saying we want to be the the best
dynamic specialist which i
am proud to say we are or you know best
compliance specialist or or the best kind
of socks experts in
the industry we we have all that but that
does not define us we want to be seen as
the true partners
it's a two-way stream and we don't want
it to be uh labeled by some beautiful
logos of you know the the
gold diamonds the we want it to be based
on the outcome and that outcome has no
definition other
than you call a cfo of a of a multi-billion
dollar farm and you could call any you
say what do you
think of your happy advisor they say
bloody good in what they do they
genuinely helped us to get through
that we had our moments at this point
that point we worked on that we worked
together we overcame that
and that's the outcome we are after touch
wood the table is made of glass uh we we
we have that to
date and we would not drop the ball on
that one the disruptors as we call them
is are the i mean
obviously we all know that i'll drop the
a ball here the art field intelligence
and uh yeah and all of that
that and we are absolutely on top of that
you know there's a whole innovation
stream it's headed by our
cto and it's got a a stream under him a
lot of work on going and we're testing
out some some use cases
in our own organization because let's
face it you know we are a global
consulting organization so
sure we are doing it if we are doing it
if we're having a challenge or a problem
that dynamics cannot
address or or some fancy project
management tool cannot address then
surely the companies out there will
have the same problem and if we are
overcoming that internally surely those
use cases could be rolled out
and uh and scaled to wider organization
so yes we're using those kind of disruptors
or um
enablers in very different way to where i
see the risk is because we we have grown
well
a organically and our team has grown with
the specific skill set around the
business the business process
the transformation journey complemented
by the technology and now you overlay
that with some
agentic ai we're letting agents to do
some clever stuff for you
we have the core we have the backbone to
go up the the risk we'll see um in the
industry will be where
some very clever things are done higher
up without knowing what problem you are
trying to solve and
the problems that humans couldn't resolve
your ai agent will also not be able to
resolve because you
haven't thought through the the back of
the backbone true business proposition
that why that that agent
exists in first place so we kind of we
want to capitalize on that um expertise
of of ours in
the industry and equally leveraging the
the technology shift in the world and the
paradigm that we are now
is kind of moving away and we want to be
in the forefront of that so the vision
would not change yep
the delivery of the vision is gonna adopt
over all the new platform that's coming
away i'll call the
the blessings you know they are blessing
yeah absolutely more more gadgets thrown
it is to say
do better your values do not change your
your ways of working will change but the
delivery will be more
optimal and we are absolutely on top of
that well and i think it's one of those
things with ai in terms of
it can complement what you do really well
if you use it the right way if you just
try to use it to create
shortcuts and to make life easier or cut
costs that's where i think you know their
problems can lie um
certainly at the minute um just that
thank you so much for for your time um
just before you go there's
one question that i do like to ask ask
everyone and it's if you're sat across a
coffee table and a friend of
yours is a cfo cio of a you know large
organization who are just sort of saying
to you hey she's out i'm
about to embark on a large-scale global d365
program of work is there any kind of
snippets of advice that
you'd kind of say just you know before
you do this there's a couple of things
that i'd just like to
highlight or piece of advice or guidance
or things that you'd suggest they might
do before they do
that apart from using erp advisors
obviously this is the you know phil
always say the best sale is the
ones you don't sell we sure we would
never say use erp advisors we'll do the
right thing and and let
them connect with us but yeah i mean if
they have chosen dynamic 365 obviously
conversation is slightly
different because they're a little bit
far ahead in the journey they know what
yeah i've selected a
product yeah yeah information is etc my
advice to them will be build an internal
team okay and partner
with a a truly trusted honest external
team that will help you own the the
project the delivery and they can
very simply in absolute clear language
explain to you how they're going to do it
don't embark on a
journey with the with the doesn't matter
it's a fixed price or tnm assuming that
that's their problem
and this is our problem if the partner is
kind of telling you and you know it up
front that they are
protecting themselves more than they need
to protect they need to demonstrate how
you can own this project
that does mean me scaling back actually
ramping down my team to give you the
knowledge the tools the
people that you need and that's your end
goal you know we'll work with you we can
achieve that in six
months 12 months 18 24 that is your true
partner and the ministry 65 i mean whole
day long it's a
fantastic product microsoft investment
you could see it's paying dividends now
doesn't matter it's a
construction industry engineering or
services or manufacturing whichever or
retailing whichever
way you go the product don't invest too
much energy is the product right because
yeah i'm not saying
because obviously we're a partner and and
all the rest the product is gonna be
right the product will
not fall short there's a there's a big
chance uh just make sure you get your
internal team and your
internal team would not be ready day one
so you don't need to over burden yourself
to say oh i need to
hire all the industry specialists blah
blah blah you may not need even one you
know you might just
keep your internal team that's coming
from it from finance a very small team
let partner help you
evolve this mindset and expand that team
and before you know if the capability is
shifted from
your left eye the external partner to the
right so so long-winded may have way of
me saying
invest your energy on team and people don't
stress too much about technology you'll
see the the goodness
of technology in a very short period of
time with dynamics 365 and with the the
ai now and all the
power platform the the toolkit is there
focusing on people and yeah yeah work
with us and we don't have no
uh no qualms about telling a client that
you know you're not ready yet and that
does mean yeah deferring
our revenue we're quite open about it we
don't talk to the companies till we have
a an agreed
statement of work as long as nda is there
we happy to advise you guide you and if
you think that some
other partner or company is is gonna be
your preferred one even then we can help
you point in the direction so
not just say erp advisors or companies or
organizations who are that open and
transparent work with them
thank you for that shazade i think it's
um it's a really interesting point
because i think it's vital
that um i guess organizations understand
at the end of the day it's their system
like they're the ones
that will be taking that on at a certain
point in time so they've got to put that
level of i guess
ownership in at the beginning with their
own people to work with you to work with
their partner sometimes
we often hear it our partner are doing
that our partner are doing that and we're
just they've almost
sometimes it feels like they've passed
the bat and say okay we'll see you in 12
or 24 months and
we'll have a great shiny new system um
and we're not going to have to do
anything and it's going to be
great and we're just going to keep
carrying on with our lives day in day out
and it's you know in 24
months time we're going to come in on
monday morning and we're going to have
all shiny new system but i
think there is a realization that there's
a lot more that the customer has to put
in with time effort
and energy and certainly putting their
best people on it where they can shazad
that was fab thank you
so much for that thank you for listening
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