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Rachael Schmitt always sensed that her childhood home in Wheeling's Fulton neighborhood was a little creepy. That suspicion was confirmed several times over - and she's sharing it all with us!
What happens when Wheeling’s history doesn’t die? Listen to Wheeling Haunts each Monday in October to find out!
Hosted by Alex Panas and Cassie Minder, Wheeling Haunts will take listeners on a journey into homes in Wheeling that have a lot of history…and a few ghost stories too!
Each week, Alex and Cassie will talk with local historians who will provide information about each home and the people who once lived there. They will also chat with current residents who will share bone-chilling stories that can quite be explained.
For more podcasts by Wheeling Heritage Media: https://weelunk.com/multimedia/podcasts/
Welcome to episode two of Wheeling Haunts. I'm Cassie.
And I'm Alex.
And each Monday in October, we're introducing to you a different Wheeling home that has a haunted history and some spooky stories to go with it. Our goal for this podcast is not only to provide you with some spooky season content, since we are in October, but also to share Wheeling's history in a fun and entertaining way. So Alex, who are we talking to this week?
We're talking to two interesting, fascinating people. The first is Rachel Schmidt. She is the lady behind the scenes of Logan Schmidt Illustrations. So if any of our listeners are familiar with Logan and his art, she is his life partner and does a lot of the behind-the-scenes admin stuff to help make their business successful. And she has some very spooky stories to tell, not just from the home that she grew up in. But she even sneaks in a couple of spooky stories from places that she's lived afterwards. So we're really excited to share that with our listeners, and we also spoke with Hal Gorby. He's a teaching associate professor at WVU, and he's providing some context on what the neighborhood looked like during the time it was in its heyday, after it was built. So we'll be looking at the Fulton neighborhood specifically, and he has a lot to share about that. So, great interviews. They're obviously pre-recorded, so what did, before we get into it and share with our listeners, what do you have to say about it, Cassie?
I just think it was so cool when talking to Rachel that she's like, "Yeah, here are these stories from my own house, but I also have some stories from other places I lived," because sometimes it's like spirits or ghosts, or whatever you believe, is attracted to people. So she seems like one of those people that wherever she goes, she may, if there is a haunted place, she may always encounter something because of just who she is and her personality, and spirits seem to be attracted to her. So I think that was so cool that she all of a sudden threw in there like, "Oh, hey, here's this other story about a place I lived," like you'd mentioned.
All right, so let's get into today's episode, starting with our interview with Rachel Schmidt.
We are here with Rachel Schmidt. She is going to tell us some spooky stories of her childhood home in Fulton. So welcome, Rachel.
Thank you so much for having me. Hello.
So let's just, let's get into it. Tell us about your house.
Okay, so the house that I grew up in, we moved in there in like 2002, and it was like, just kind of weird. Like, it has a weird feeling when you go in there. I was just like, "This is what houses are like," because I was like 13 or whatever, like, whatever. Whenever my friends would come over, they'd just be like, "Your house feels creepy, "It feels like people are, like, watching us all the time in there," and like, it's weird. And like, there were just lots of little things that would constantly happen like the whole time I lived there. Like, doors would be open that no one opened. Like, there'd be a lot of creaks and weird noises but it was like an older house, so, you know, it's normal.
When you first moved in, was there like anything in the house? Or was there like a fireplace or, like, maybe a built-in china cabinet or something that like really attracted you to that house or anything?
Um, there was a, there's still like a really cool fireplace in the living room. It's like, I think it's iron and it has, like, theater happy-sad faces on either side, and it's kind of creepy and awesome, and I love it. And there's just a lot of gorgeous woodwork in that house, and there's like some cool marble and like the cool marble subway tiles. Like, it's a gorgeous house. I really like it. It was just weird and creepy. It's bizarre.
So was there a certain place in the house that like you felt was most, or was it just the whole house in general?
Um, the basement was extra extra creepy.
It's always the basement.
Yeah, it's like a dungeon down there. And it just, there was just weird stuff all over the property that we found, and especially in my basement, and we're like, I don't know. It's just weird. But the whole house had kind of like a creepy feeling too, and like the windows? I don't know. It's weird.
Just weird vibes?
Just weird vibes all around.
Yeah. And did you know anything about the history of the home prior to moving in, or did you ever come across any history of the home? Or just its creepiness is solely in your experiences?
It's more just in my experiences. Like about a month after we moved in, the kid that lived there before we did, like, came back, like rode his bike and was like, "this was my old house." I mean, and he was just like, looking around the property and stuff. And I'm like, "Oh, okay?"
Totally normal. Totally normal behavior.
"Whatever." And, I don't know, like, what else was there? Someone in our neighborhood said that there was like a lot of like coal mining houses up there. But like, I don't know of a coal mine up there. Because it's like a hill.
Yeah.
So I don't know. It's kind of weird, but that's what everybody said. And there was like mine subsidence that like happened in our basement and stuff. So I don't know, it might have been like, possibly an old mine house. Maybe.
Interesting. So how long did you live in the house? You said you moved in when you were about 13?
Yeah, I was 13, and I moved out when I got married when I was 21. So like, a little less than 10 years?
Okay.
Yeah.
All right. And you said while you were there, you had three very spooky stories. So let's get into the first one. Tell us all about it.
Yeah. And they kind of escalate. So it's kind of cool. But anyway. So like, about within the year that we moved in, we got like our first digital camera as a family. We were like, my parents were super pumped about it, and like, we were allowed to, like, play with it and take pictures and stuff. So that was cool. And like one day, my mom, like went to run errands, so it was just me and my three little brothers. And we were like playing with the camera, and we like found out it had a voice recording option, and were like, "Oh, let's try this." So we recorded our voices, like we were just talking normally for like, a minute, and then we played it back, and it was all normal except like at the end, there was this like, really creepy moaning noise. It was like [moaning noise]. It was it was like, "oh, no, I don't like this. I don't like this" and it like made my eyes water and it was gross, and I really hated it.
Yeah.
And I was like, "let's delete this." Because like, my brother and I were all like, freaked out. We're just like, "Oh,"
Yeah.
"we don't like this." So that was super creepy. We told my mom. And my mom's very religious, and she's like, "I don't believe in that stuff. I don't want to hear about it. Like, no." So it was like, "Okay."
Yeah, so after that experience, it was just like, "All right, move on to the next thing." Like, did you kind of forget about it for a while? What was that like?
I just always kind of just felt like this house was weird. And like, maybe more things would happen. Maybe not. Hopefully, I was like, "It's kind of interesting," so it was kind of like, it'd be cool if more stuff happened, but like, as long as everybody's like, safe and Okay. Like, I don't know. But it was creepy. But yeah, I didn't. I was just like, “What's gonna happen now?"
Yeah. But onto the second experience.
Yeah.
What was that like?
So the second one was probably like two years later, I feel like I was like, a freshman or sophomore in high school. And my mom worked really late nights at TeleTech. So she worked usually until like six in the morning. But sometimes she would get off early. And, like, come home at like two or three. Anyway, so like, I waited, like really late to take my shower until like two in the morning. So I was like, in the shower, like washing my hair, and I hear like, these, like sleigh bells [bells in background] like Jingle Bells. I was like, "Oh, that's weird. Never heard that before. Okay." So just continue, and then I heard like, towels flapping, you know how it's like you flap at a towel before you fold it? I heard that. So I was like, "Oh, mom came in to say hi, she got off early, she's refolding my towels, whatever." So like I looked out and I'm like, "How was your day?" and there was nobody there. I was like, "Okay, that's weird." And then like, I'm rinsing out the conditioner in my hair, and all of a sudden, I feel like a push on my left shoulder. Like, I just like, went forward. And it was very weird and creepy. So I like rinsed off real quick and like got out of the bathroom. Because it was like, that was really scary. That was like, the creepiest probably.
Did you have any type of bells in your house that like it could have been ringing or?
No, no, we didn't have anything like that. At the time, it made me remember like, when we were really little my grandparents would, had sleigh bells at their house and they would shake them like Christmas night to be like, "Oh, Santa is here, get in bed."
Yeah.
So that made me think of that. But like, we didn't have anything like that in our house. It was just bizarre. But yeah.
Did you talk to anyone about that? You said the first, during your first story your mom was not really entertaining it.
Yeah. I didn't tell anyone in my family. I might have told my brothers because my brothers and I tell each other everything, but I think I mentioned it like months later to my friends because I was like, "It freaked me out so much, I didn't want to think about it or talk about it." So like I told them about it, and they're like, "That's weird. Your house is weird" and like, yeah. So that's about it.
How long was it between the second occurence and the third occurrence? And what was that?
That was when I was 17. It was in August. And I worked at, so it was like, maybe two years later, I worked at the glassworks as a hostess. And I would get done with work usually around like 10. So I drove home, went in, like to my mom and dad's room to be like, "Hey, I'm home. How are you?" And they're like, "Oh, your brother fell asleep. Can you take him to his room for me?" I was like, "Okay," so like, I picked him up, and I was like, shutting the door to their room behind me, and I like glanced over into my bedroom, and, like, in the window, I saw like the reflection of a little girl. And like, I could see her from behind, like her hair and her clothes, and she had like this little purple. Like you know, in the 90s, the Walmart like matching outfits that little kids would have?
Very familiar.
Yeah, yeah, it was like that, and was like a stripe purple tank top and like, purple bike shorts. And I was like, "I had that outfit when I was little," like, I was like, "Is that me in some weird way?" Like, I was like, mesmerized. I was like, "What is this," and I could see her face in the window. And she was like, staring out the window. She had like, same color brown hair me. Like the brown, blunt bangs that like I had. And I was like, "That's really freaky." And I don't know how long I like stared at that. It could have been like, five minutes, it could have been like five seconds. But like, I was holding my brother. And I was like, and then I blinked and then it was gone. And I was like, "I don't know." And then I like, took my brother to his room. And I just kind of hung out with my brothers in their room for a while because I was like, "That was creepy." I don't know, that was really weird. And I don't really know what any of this stuff in the house is. I don't know if it's like ghosts or energy or like, things from I feel like there could be energy from like, my own past that you can like project and see. I don't know if that's what it is. Or it could be like an actual spirit of a person who once lived like, I'm not sure.
Yeah, I think that's fun to think about. Because Have you had other experiences outside of the house? That were unexplained?
Yeah, like someone just taking care of you.
Yeah, most of them happened in that house. Before that, when we lived in my grandma's house, that was a very old house. Like it was like a log cabin. And me and my aunt both saw a bunch of stuff in that house. So yeah, that happened when I was really little. And then, when I was like, when we first got married, we lived at the Monastery. That was like our first apartment. And there was a sweater I could not find. And I was like, looking for like months after we moved in. And one night like I woke up and the sweater was like, tucked in around me. Like on me, like tucked in. I was like, "Logan, you found my sweater and you like, tucked it in all nice. That's weird." And he's like, "I didn't do that." Like I was like, "What?" So and that was like a monastery, like there were nuns that lived there. So I was like, "Was it a nun ghost?"
That was the only thing that ever happened there. And it was just like, "Oh, that's nice. Maybe they're happy that we like, are taking care of this apartment," because it was kind of gross when we moved and we like painted it and fix it up and made it nice, but I don't know.
Now, you mentioned after that first experience that your mom was like, "No, it's nothing." Did she like change your opinion on something going on in the house? Or?
No, um, she did tell us about weird stuff that happened to her. But she like, was very "No, it wasn't ghosts or anything." Like, she would be more likely to believe it's like angels or something.
Okay.
Like, I could understand that from her but, my brother, Sean, he's the one that's like 10 years younger than me. He's had a lot of experiences there. And he's still like, they still live there. So he still has stuff. Like he sent me a picture, when we first started talking about doing this podcast, because I told him about it. And he's like, "Oh, well, I have these scratches that I keep getting on my arm that I don't know where they're coming from." Like, "Oh, okay, so those things are still happening there."
Yeah.
And I don't know.
It's funny you brought that up because that was gonna be my next question. Because you felt someone actually or something actually touch you, which a lot of people don't experience that.
Yeah.
And has there ever been any instances where your family has had something show up? A bruise or something? And bruises are kind of hard because you're like, "Oh, I don't know where this bruise came from?"
Yeah, right.
But like scratches or something physical that they've seen? Or felt?
I feel like my little brothers sometimes they would just have like, weird rashes or marks that like, would show up for like a day and then go away. And it's like, "I've never seen that on you before. And I've never seen it since." Like, so just weird instances like that. That was just such a weird house. There was like, always something bizarre happening in it. And it was just creepy.
Yeah, I think it's interesting because that like, if you don't believe or if you're not thinking about it through the lens of like, "Is this a paranormal experience?" Like, it's really easy to write those things off. But when you like, line all these stories up back to back to back, it does seem like there's something going on in this house.
Yeah.
Or maybe it's just you, maybe you just have like a, spirits love you.
I don't know.
Did you believe in ghosts from an early age? Or did these experiences make you a believer?
Um, so like, when I was probably like, 10 to 12 when I saw all things at my grandma's house, and I was like, "I don't think those are ghosts. Those aren't ghosts. I'm not gonna, like, believe in this stuff." And then yeah, once we moved into this house, I was like, "okay, this could be something" and yeah, the more stuff that happened, I was like, "Okay, I think there's things that are happening in the world that we don't know how to explain. And like, how could we?" It's just interesting.
Yeah, so what's something you would want listeners to know? If they have like their own unexplained experience? Do you think they should be scared? Should they welcome it? Like, what? What are your takeaways from these experiences and how do you walk through life like kind of believing in these kind of out-there concepts for some people?
I don't think you should be scared. Like, I don't think it's really gonna, anything's really gonna hurt you. But my mom always was like, "Don't engage with these things. Because you don't know what it is." So like, I just, I never did engage with them. Like I thought about it, like, maybe not, I don't need anything weird happening because I'm inviting this energy. So like, I think, maybe you don't know what things are, so maybe don't engage with things that you don't understand all the way. If that makes sense.
Yeah.
But, like don't be scared of it. Just like, live your life. And, you know, we don't know what they are. Maybe they're just trying to live their lives, like whatever that is.
Yeah, they can be just as freaked out.
Yeah.
Like who's this lady in my shower?
Get out of here. Yeah, you know.
It's kind of like one of those things just respect the paranormal and keep going.
Yeah, yeah. Just respect for all things.
The Wheeling Symphony Orchestra Sound Bite Series presents "American Voices," October 29th at the Scottish Rite Cathedral. This performance includes partner performances with chorus, Bow Chase Elise and a catered dinner before the show. Tickets are available at wheelingsymphony.com
Calling all witches, wizards, and Muggles. Join the Wheeling Symphony Orchestra on October 21st for a Halloween at Hogwarts, featuring all of your favorite music from the Harry Potter films. Show up early for fun, family-friendly pre-concert activities, including our Diagon Alley, crafts, and much more. Costumes are welcome and encouraged. Tickets available now at wheelingsymphony.com.
The Wheeling Symphony Orchestra is a proud partner of Wheeling Heritage. Visit wheelingsymphony.com for information on all of their upcoming performances including their "American Story" season and Symphony on Ice. These performances are presented by Main Street Bank and EQT Foundation.
We are here with William Hal Gorby. He is a teaching assistant professor of history and the Director of Undergraduate Advising at West Virginia University. He teaches courses on West Virginian, Appalachian, and American immigration history. He also consulted on research and script editing for Emmy nominated PBS American experience documentary "The Mind Wars." So hi, Hal, welcome to our podcast.
Welcome. Thanks for being here.
Oh, it's my pleasure to be here. Very exciting.
Let's get into it. Will you tell us a little bit about your background and how West Virginia and Appalachian history became your focus area?
Well, obviously, I'm a faculty member here at West Virginia University. You know, I've always been sort of interested in working-class history, growing up in the Moundsville/Wheeling area, going to college a Wheeling Jesuit, mid 2000s. You know, I was very interested in sort of that industrial history of the region, which by that point it started to kind of slow down with the steel industry and everything else. And then just, you know, being aware of like the diverse immigrant history that Wheeling has. I was very interested in learning more about those different groups. So, whenever I was thinking of graduate school projects, that's where my mind naturally went. So, you know, I got very interested in that period of the late 19th, early 20th century, when Wheeling was at its sort of industrial heyday, and sort of looking at sort of what the city was like for working-class people has always been interesting to me.
So, did you have any early influences or academic influences while you were here in Wheeling that kind of led you?
Yeah, my dad worked at the Fostoria Glass and Moundsville. So I was interested in that sort of, you know, style of work and production. I got really interested in local history when I was at Wheeling Jesuit and just kind of, you know, doing projects in the East Wheeling/Downtown area. I had gone to Center Market for years. So, you know, the Coleman Fish scene and everything down there was always fun. So, you know, just always was intrigued by this sort of physical spaces and just trying to learn more about the actual people who built things and didn't work as opposed to maybe the sort of more famous people that we all know a lot more about.
Great.
[END PART 1]
[START PART 2]
Well, we're obviously here to talk about haunted places in Wheeling. So let's just lay it all out there. What's your take on ghosts and spirits? Do you believe? Are you skeptical? What's your take?
You know, professionally? I probably shouldn't say, but I mean, I do think there is something that sort of lingers in many of these places. You know, there are many places that have deep histories of both good, bad, ugly. So sometimes I do think that there are sort of the spirits or after effects of those people. And those experiences do stick around. I mean, I'm from Moundsville, we have the penitentiary, which is known for being pretty haunted as a space. So, you know, we have a lot of folklore traditions in the state and region too, which seemed to suggest that there's a wide sort of paranormal, cryptid, and, you know, just ghost culture somewhere just below the surface.
Do you think those beliefs influence the way you approach history in any way?
I do. Because I think those stories are very important for working-class people that are, you know, may be marginalized in society, that they don't get their voice. Their voices weren't always heard. So the way that they're able to pass down elements of their history is through folklore, through ghost traditions. Through that oral they were passing the stories and family customs from one generation to the next. You know, those are the folks we have to look at in their records. Sometimes that's the records we have, as opposed to somebody who has, you know, formal papers where we can write a lot of very detailed things about what they did. And we maybe don't get as clear of a picture unless we look a little more broadly at how people's, what the sort of beliefs they had, their short-lived experiences.
Yeah, I like that perspective.
Yeah.
So we know, the house in question was built in the late 1800s, early 1900s. What was Fulton like at that time?
Yeah, Fulton is an interesting sort of neighborhood east of Wheeling proper. I mean, in a way, it's, in some respects, kind of part of the center of Downtown Wheeling, in terms of that 19th century period. You know, really, until the mid 19th century, it wasn't even a place people lived. You don't really start seeing people living there until the era of the Civil War, and then it just sort of explodes after that point. If you think of the geography of Wheeling, if you're going from east to west, now, and maybe you don't notice it now driving, but imagine sort of going up National Road, climbing that high hill, it's very difficult to travel. And in particular, if you were trying to move livestock, cattle, or something to market, you know, you got to convince them to go up that steep hill and so what kind of oddly the industry that really kind of starts developing there in the 1840s--the first one that opens--is meatpacking and pork packing. So that whole area of Fulton, that's really what it was known for throughout most of the 19th century, even into the end of the 20th century. Louis Baya opened the first slaughterhouse and pork packing house in 1847. By 1890, there are at least a half a dozen, small to medium to large, operating in that area, you know, Weimers, the Shank and Sons are probably the biggest. George Hess, the Zoeckler family, there are many others. So it kind of had this gritty working-class feel to it. You know, so a lot of livestock, a lot of animal pens, obviously, all that goes with that. And of course, you know, it started also attracting related industries, particularly mining and later steel cast molding.
Yeah, let's turn to talk about the mining industry. So when we were talking to Rachel, she had heard from her neighbors that there was actually an entrance to a coal mine on the hill. Based on your knowledge, is there any evidence to suggest this was true? And what do we know about it?
Yes, there were a number of coal mines in that area, in the record, and if you look in the newspaper, they go by a couple of different names. At sometimes they call it the Fulton Coal Bank, to the idea of a bank, like you're literally cutting into the side of the hill to get into the coal, it's very close to the surface, and then you just kind of go further back in. You would have seen these sort of types of coal banks in the mid, late 19th century, sort of dotted around Wheeling, but there would have been one up on that hillside area. Initially, it was opened by someone named Walter Marshall, and it was also referred to as the Marshall Coal Bank. And it was in operation on and off, you know, really in the years after the Civil War. I find evidence of it as late as the 1890s. And then it kind of disappears out of the record there. You know, according to the description of it, it sounds like the opening and several other openings are literally just not that far away from National Road. And the times it comes up in the newspapers is often people complaining about debris from the mine is like going out into National Road. So you know, they obviously probably have wagons, where they're sort of loading coal that they're pulling out. So it's on a busy road. So you've got that issue as well. But yeah, I mean it's up in that area. And even in the history of Wheeling in the late 1870s, they describe how another mine is about to be opened, basically along National Road, near Berry Street. So that area, there was always a lot of that sort of activity. But by the turn of the 20th century, that mining activity had moved farther, farther east, like towards Elm Grove and Tridelphia.
So another thing we learned in our talk with Rachel was that she had an encounter where she heard sleigh bells. Does that ring any bells for you?
Sleigh bells, ringing bells? Yeah. Interesting. I mean, the only thing that would be interesting to me in that regard is that, you know, that area of National Road or close to it, you would have had all of this wagon traffic and other sort of horse drawn traffic, you know, in the turn of the 20th century and early 20th century period. So if there's maybe some sort of ghost hanging around from that period, maybe somebody that got killed by a wagon or a wagon getting loose and kind of coming back down the steep hill, I mean, there are stories reported in the late 19th century where there was wagon wrecks. There were, you know, when automobiles come into play, you know, Wheeling has...at the moment automobiles arrive, you still have heavy horse traffic in Wheeling, you've got streetcars and railroads often on some of these streets. So you just have a lot of these stories of people being maimed and killed, unfortunately, in that way, so maybe it's somebody that met their demise from, you know, sort of a wagon or something coming through whether it's Christmas or not? Who knows?
Yeah, who knows? It's fun to speculate. Just taking a quick step back. So thinking, what was Fulton like at the turn of the century? If you could describe the life of an average working person in that neighborhood? What was their life like?
It would have, there would have been abundant job opportunities in a very narrow space. If you're there or you'd been there, you can just imagine the fact of multiple slaughterhouses. And if you have a lot of slaughterhouses, you know, obviously, it's going to be loud. You know, it's not gonna smell too good.
No, I can't imagine.
They're right above the creek area there. And, you know, prior to sort of the water filtration system in Wheeling the creek would have been obviously used as a refuge.
Oh, wow.
It would not have been as pleasant. If you were further up the hill, you know, maybe it would have been a little bit better. The other thing to keep in mind is that on the other side of the hill, you know, just in North Wheeling, you would have had the top mill blast furnace. So a lot of people started kind of moving to Fulton to kind of be on the other side of the hill from that sort of sulfurous smell. But then, in the early years of the 20th century, there on the peninsula, what was known as the Wheeling Molding Foundry was opened, and it's this massive steel casting, mold casting complex that, you know, was the biggest employer by the time period probably when this house was built. Around that time, you know, that would have been the sort of big employer in that region producing large amounts of steel casting and other equipment that was used for things like the Pennsylvania Railroad tunnel under the Hudson River going into New York City, they had a contract for that. They also had a contract for material on the Panama Canal.
Wow.
So it would have been and you can kind of still see a little bit of that site when you drive past it. The old, what was known as blonde locks. But imagine having a big, almost steel mill there now in the valley. So now you've got smoke, the other, you know, issues that come with that. So it would have been a bustling community, but one that was very densely compacted but also kind of geographically unique, because people living on that sort of more of the hillside, people ride along National Road. There's that low lying plain area closer to the creek as well. So it is a very unique neighborhood, for sure.
Yeah, that's all very interesting things to think about when considering Rachel's stories and how some of the people that have lived in the house or the neighborhood might have stuck around and why.
Sure, sure.
So one thing we've been talking about in the office is how spooky stories like Rachel's can potentially provide a gateway for people to learn more about our area's history. As a historian, what's your take on that? And what would you like our listeners to take away from this episode?
Yeah, I do think those types of stories are a way to get people interested in places that, let's be honest, that are off the beaten path. You know, they're not the most common places that people think of. Their homes, where people actually have lived their lives and multi generations, so some of these homes have seen multi generations of the different ethnic groups in Wheeling's history. So maybe this house, maybe had somebody early on that was German, then maybe it was Polish, because there was a very distinct Polish community. And then who knows, you know, as time time goes on. You see that throughout Wheeling in many of these sort of old working-class, middle-class homes, so getting that sort of entry point into that sort of lived experience of Wheeling at that period of time, I think this is a great way to really do that in a sort of unique, and let's be honest, it's a fun way too because it's part history, and it's part, you know, sort of conjecture to a certain extent, based off of, you know, people's current lived experiences of, you know, encountering people and another worldly level, that's saying, but no, I think it's a very great way to sort of get into this history from below or history of, you know, sort of ordinary people's experiences.
Yeah, we love that. Like, obviously, ghost stories aren't something that we can quantify, or research or prove. I mean, depending on how you look at it. But I think it's interesting, because it allows us to look at these subjects and give them a certain level of respect.
Yeah, and I think some of them, you know, I think a lot of the stories dealing with this house in this neighborhood, they seem to be ones about death, or seeing people that have obviously died in some way. That speaks to that sort of cultural legacy of how dangerous some of these working-class neighborhoods were in Wheeling. So there are probably many ghosts, you know, in places like South Wheeling, Benwood, steel mills down there, you know, some of these other working-class neighborhoods. So, you know, it kind of maybe reflects the distinctions and differences between the different neighborhoods in Wheeling's history, too.
Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on the podcast, we appreciate your time, before we let you go, when you're not teaching, and when you're not coming on podcast, what are you working on, and how can our listeners learn more about your work if they want to learn more about Wheeling and Appalachian history?
Well, for those of you that are listening, they probably may remember my voice from another Wheeling Heritage media podcast. So you know, trying to find other ways to engage in those types of things. And you know, I do a lot of speaking events, I try to do a lot of that sort of public history work as much as I can. You know, you can check. I'm on social media, so if people want to check out any of my social media accounts, they're not obviously up to speed with the newest generation of people. But you know, obviously, I have a faculty webpage, so if you're interested in sort of reaching out to me to talk about Wheeling history, you know, state, regional history as well, happy to always chat.
Do you want to to tell us about your book too?
Oh, of course, well...
Gotta get that plug in while you have an audience.
Sure. And that's actually where I actually got a greater appreciation for the Fulton neighborhood was actually doing that research for my book, which is Wheeling's Polonia, it's history of sort of Wheeling's Polish immigrant population, which is mainly centered in the South Wheeling, working-class neighborhood, but that there were also little pockets in Center Wheeling. There was also this large pocket of Polish immigrants in the Fulton area, particularly along National Road and Bow Street. You know, people like the from the Pologa family, among many others, you know, that Fulton area kind of developed as a sort of little Polish satellite community in Wheeling. So, you know, that was really how I got into sort of looking at that working-class history of the city. So thanks for the plug.
Yeah, of course. Got to get it out there while we can. We'll be sure to link all that in the show notes. And we should have copies of Polonia in the Wheeling Artisan Center Shop. And this is perfect, because we are running out of time on our free zoom call. Is there anything else that you prepare that we didn't get a chance to chat about?
No, I think that's all I have.
Well, thank you so much. And I'm sure we'll be in touch.
Yeah, for our next podcast.
Sure. Maybe there will be a return of us sort of Henry small-box style podcast. Who knows? We can entice the listeners to...
Yes.
...stay on the edge of their seat.
Yeah, I don't know how we want to edit this in but yeah, thank you for all the work that you did on Henry and if anyone wants to learn about Wheeling's most notorious Brewer Henry Schmulbach, we have a whole other podcast series you can dive into after this.
Great. Okay, podcast voice off. Thank you so much, Hal.
No problem. It was great.
All right, Cassie, what did we think of these interviews?
I thought it was super interesting, especially when they brought up the coal mine. Just because we are an area with a ton of coal mines to have one in the area near Fulton's not surprising. But there's also a lot of stories behind coal mines, whether it's in West Virginia or like, wherever they are, that coal mines are haunted. So I think it's really interesting that we have a haunted story, a coal mine right close to it. Who knows what happened, the history that happened inside of that, that could be something lingering around Fulton? So I just thought that was really cool.
Yeah, and this is probably embarrassing to admit, but I'm not really familiar with like the coal mining industry in general. So the thought of there being an entrance to a mine in a neighborhood that's primarily residential seems very foreign. And maybe it's because it's not quite that way now, but I felt that that was interesting to think that, you know, the neighborhood really built out not just around the National Road, but all the industry in the area. And in particular slaughterhouses, too. I did not know that there were slaughterhouses in Fulton.
No, I agree completely on the slaughterhouses and how Hal kept bringing up like it probably wasn't the best place to live because it smelled bad. And you had all these slaughterhouses and processing factories and businesses. And I don't know, like, it kind of makes me question like why people built their house there if all these factors were around it, but maybe that was what was available price wise, that's where they could go.
Yeah, I would imagine that it was primarily working-class families that lived there, which is just an interesting, which is, you know, Hal mentioned this, that he was drawn to those stories in that particular area of Wheeling's history in his academic research, because we hear a lot about, you know, Victoria era Wheeling, and all of these, like fancy, rich people. But that was only a small subset of people. There were a ton of working-class people that really built the city and made it what it is. So it was cool to get a little glimpse of that, that we don't always talk about as much.
Yeah. What do you think about Rachel's mom not believing in spirits and ghosts? And these things have happened in the house that she lives in? And Rachel believes, but maybe she doesn't? What do you make of that?
I can see it happening. One because I think my mom would do the same thing. And two, now that I am of childbearing age, thinking "if I had a kid coming to me, saying that they saw ghosts or have this freaky encounter," I don't know how I would make sense of that to a child while trying to be the adult. So I could see it being a lot easier to brush it off than to having to come up with some like, elaborate explanation for something that doesn't have one.
I totally get that. And I don't know how I would react if like, one day I have a kid and they came up to me and was like, "Hey, I saw this. What was this?" I'm just like, "I don't know."
Yeah, like, do you just want to hide under the covers together? Because that's where I'm headed? So yeah, I definitely think that Rachel, this story is about her house that she grew up in. I think that, thinking back to the last episode, there isn't as strong of a connection to that we were able to identify with who was living in the house and the experiences she had. But I do think that Rachel herself is some sort of, she gives off some sort of energy, that spirit follows her. So I think she could be anywhere in the world and have some spooky experiences just by nature of who she is, which you mentioned beginning of the episode.
Definitely. And there are probably a lot of other people out there who have that energy that spirits are attracted to. And then later you'll find out in a different episode, one person says, Nope, don't come to me spirits. And it seems to work for her.
Yeah. All right, Cassie. So what do we think? How haunted is it?
This one's hard for me. I guess it's hard for me in any of them. Because if I don't experience it, it's hard. And I don't know Rachel on a personal level to judge but I mean, her stories are valid of things that happened in my house with growing up with the random noises you hear and the figures you see or a shadow that you see. But especially what stuck with me is the noises she would hear, the sleigh bells, very similar to experiences I had in my own house growing up. I never saw a figure in my house, but my dad and my sister did. So I don't know I think I'd have to write this one. A 6 maybe, just because we don't know the history behind it. But I can have those shared experiences with Rachel.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with a 6 too because I think it's less the house that's haunted. And I don't wanna say Rachel's haunted, but just going back to what I was saying, she has a presence. And I think that spirits follow her. So, I would say that the house is probably pretty free and clear. But again, maybe we'll just have to send some ghost hunters. Have a little sleep over there and see what comes up for them.
So listeners, what do you rate Rachel's house at?
Visit the link in our show notes to leave us a message. Tell us how spooky you think her house is. Or if you just have any questions or comments about any of the interviews from this week's episode, we'd love to hear it and possibly feature it on an upcoming episode of the podcast.
And that is our second show. Tune in next week for more chilling tales from Wheeling's past. Thanks for listening and remember to...
Stay spooky!
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