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Safety is the number one most important thing for any mentoring organization. Your kids absolutely must be safe if you are going to be a successful mentoring non-profit. Caroline Tidwell returns this week to discuss with Zach the importance of safety practices, some practical guidelines, and shares Forerunner Mentoring's safety guidelines and why those specific guidelines exist.
Show Notes
Safety is the number one most important thing for any mentoring organization. Your kids absolutely must be safe if you are going to be a successful mentoring non-profit. Caroline Tidwell returns this week to discuss with Zach the importance of safety practices, some practical guidelines, and shares Forerunner Mentoring's safety guidelines and why those specific guidelines exist.
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
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Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor. Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast.
Speaker 2:Whoop whoop.
Speaker 1:It's been a long time, but my name is Caroline Tidwell, and I'm here with Zachary Garza.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:The one and only.
Speaker 2:Today, we are talking about safety.
Speaker 1:It's important.
Speaker 2:Safety is one of the things that any nonprofit needs focus in on because it's one of the things that if not executed well, you know, if you don't take safety seriously, then it has the potential to kill your program.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's a big deal.
Speaker 2:So, Caroline, why don't you just share your title and what you do here at Mhmm. 4 Runner, and tell us why you're so passionate about safety.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's great. So I am the volunteer and safety coordinator here at 4 Runner, and my job is to, 1, onboard all the volunteers, and 2, to make sure that we have a safe program. So what that means is I help create and implement all of our policies and procedures and make sure that volunteers and staff are trained properly on how to interact with their kids.
Speaker 2:Yep. And it's so much more than just physical safety. Oh, yeah. It's emotional safety. It's I mean
Speaker 1:Spiritual safety.
Speaker 2:Spiritual safety. It's just let's talk about why safety matters and just what a huge deal it is a parent entrust their child to us.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's a big deal. So you just kinda said it, but a guardian or parent, they are giving you their most prized possession when they come into your program or into your mentoring relationship. That is that should be enough. They're giving you everything that they have, and so we want to be good stewards of that relationship.
Speaker 1:The Lord calls us to stewardship. And part of that is making sure that this child that you're interacting with is safe. And one thing that I think is really easy to say is, like, the child's safety matters, which is so important, But this is also your safety. Mhmm. Your safety matters too.
Speaker 1:So we're not saying, like, it's only the child. It's only the child. You your safety matters too, and we'll talk about kind of practically what that looks like. And then the last thing that I we talk about this a lot here at 4 Runner, just the concept of submission and being submitted to a policy or to a safety program. That submission, plus being humble enough to say, I was wrong or I made a mistake, that will be a successful mentoring relationship because you're able to learn from your mistakes or from when a mom says, hey.
Speaker 1:I didn't like when you guys went here, or I didn't like that you came home late or whatever. So that'll that'll make your relationship successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, safety matters because the kid matters. Yeah. Safety matters because you're you matter. Safety matters because submission plus humility equals the success of the kids, success of the program, and because the Lord calls you to stewardship.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And this is what I love about my relationship with you is you you know that I'm not the most detail oriented guy out there. And I'm gonna be honest, I'm pretty optimistic. There was a time in my life whenever I was like, safety is safety is safety is safety. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Like, I didn't really care about it a ton. Yeah. And that was my bad. And whenever we brought you on, you challenged me on that. And that made our program significantly better because now our program is safer.
Speaker 2:And I mean, that's just honoring to the kid, that's honoring to the Lord, that's honoring to mom. Because, like, at the end of the day, mentoring is pretty much putting 2 strangers together.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so we need to set the walls high in case someone wants to come and attack our city, attack our organization, our kids Mhmm. And safety can help do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And the enemy doesn't want there to be success when you are mentoring, like, in the way of the Lord. So he will do everything he can to destroy that.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So
Speaker 1:it's up to us as mentors or mentoring organizations to say, well, I'm not gonna let the safety of my kid or my mentors be the thing that he's able to attack. Yep. Because that not only will destroy you or a kid's life, it'll sink the ship of your organization
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So fast.
Speaker 2:Right. So, like and and hey, like, this is called you can mentor. So we want to talk to the mentor, but we also wanna talk to the mentoring organization. And so hey. If you mentor outside of the umbrella of a organization, that's okay.
Speaker 2:Like, there isn't anything wrong with that, but you need to make sure that you're setting boundaries and you need to make sure that you are creating the safest relationship possible. And I think a great way to do that is if you're mentoring outside of an organization, you've gotta involve the parent.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:So why don't you just talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So I'm sure we've said this on this podcast before, but the parent or guardian is maybe the most important person in your mentoring relationship, because they are gonna be the ones that they're giving you access to the child that you're mentoring.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a big thing to just sit on for a second is they are when you come to them and say, I'm gonna mentor your kid, and they give you access to their child. That is a big deal. Yep. They are saying, yes, come into my space, interact with my kid. And so you honor them by setting boundaries, even if the parent doesn't ask for them.
Speaker 1:And so go above and beyond. Text mom something that I say, whether you're in an organization or mentoring outside of 1, every time you hang out with your mentee, text them when you get there to their house to pick up the kid. Text them when you get to your destination. Mhmm. If it's Sonic, you say, mom, we made it to Sonic.
Speaker 1:Then text them when you're leaving Sonic, and then you walk them to their door. Or if mom's not there, you say, just dropped off so and so. See you next time.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because what that shows mom or guardian is like, this person cares that I know where my child is. Like, they want to know what you're doing, and you don't have to tell them, like, every single detail of, like, we ordered diet lemonade and lots of real estate.
Speaker 2:Enjoying my cheddar poppers.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You don't have to text that, but, like, let's just say, you notice that your car is on empty when you leave Sonic. It is honoring to mom, after you've already texted her, hey. We're coming home, to say, hey. I need to get gas really quick.
Speaker 1:We're stopping at the gas station. I'll text you when we leave, and are back on our way.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And that just that's 1 a paper trail for you to say this is exactly where we were. And 2, it's a way that honors mom. And 3, it builds trust with the kid. Even if the kid is like, why are you texting my mom so much? They're gonna look back and say, Zach cared so much about me that he made sure my mom knew where I was.
Speaker 2:And so if you guys are anything like the old me, there might be some people out there who who are saying that's over the top. That's too much. Yeah. Like, why are you like, no. Like, I'm just hanging out with a kid.
Speaker 2:But I've had moms come up to me and say, thank you so much for in teaching your mentors to do these things. I feel so safe with you. And then guess what? They tell their friends. We had a mom this past month who her sister lives in Minnesota.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Some somewhere far.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And they're moving to Dallas to be a part of our program. Yeah. But why is that? That's because that mom has seen the impact of what we're doing with her son.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. It's because she feels safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Trustworthy.
Speaker 2:And just like, if anyone out there has kids, put yourself in the position where there's a stranger, someone that you don't know spending time with your child. You would want to know everything that they do. Mhmm. And you would feel safer with them if they did communicate those to you.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So it's a big deal. Why don't you talk about, like, what it looks like whenever you do mentor through a nonprofit, and what are some of the things that the nonprofit should have in place as you begin to volunteer with them?
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's great. Well, one, we talked about this earlier, just the submission piece. And if you're mentoring through an through an organization, you are submitted to what they are doing. So it's really important to know what you're submitted to.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Because if you don't wanna be submitted to just anyone or anything. So in my opinion, I would say at the very minimum, an organization needs to be implementing background checks for their volunteers. And I know there's gonna be someone out there that's like, well, nothing comes up on background checks. I know.
Speaker 1:Exactly. That's why I say at minimum. But you never know what can come up and even so some well well, we do background checks on our volunteers and even something like a huge speeding ticket. That's not necessarily a red flag, but I still bring it up to our director of mentoring and say, hey. You need to have a conversation with them about this because they're gonna be transporting kids.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And so have they learned from that? What does that look like? What did that look like? What came of it? And anything that comes up just needs to be addressed.
Speaker 1:And then I would say too, any organization needs to be outsourcing their safety trainings. So at 4 Runner, we use Ministry Safe, which is the one that I highly, highly, highly recommend
Speaker 2:Yes. They're awesome.
Speaker 1:To everybody. And the reason I say third party is because I know of organizations that have done internal processing where they will create it them they'll create, like, a sexual abuse training themselves instead of outsourcing it. And that just gets really messy if something does happen within your organization because it's gonna look like you didn't care, or it's gonna look like you missed things on purpose Right. Or left things out or allowed for corners to be cut when they just shouldn't. And so for us using Ministry Safe, that gives us a standard that we need to follow.
Speaker 2:Well and for me, it's objective, 1. Right. And 2, it's just easy. Like, hey, it's $25. Like, that saves me time.
Speaker 2:I can trust them. Like, they have been doing this whole lot longer than I have. It's just I highly recommend 3rd party. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There's there's just a we could go on for hours about why it's important. But one thing that I would recommend to any mentor that's looking to get involved in something is just ask the question, how do you keep me accountable? You are submitting to them when you ask that question.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And
Speaker 1:you're also putting yourself in a situation that is leaning towards success when you are able to ask a question like, how do you keep me accountable? Or what rules are there for mentoring? Because if you if there are no rules, anything can happen. Anything goes. And that means every single mentoring relationship is just doing whatever they want.
Speaker 1:And to me, I think there is so much more success when it's when you say, hey, you need to come to our after school program once a month. Or, hey. You we will meet with you every other month and check on your mentoring relationship. And we talk to mom, you, and kid. And there's just accountability so that that keeps you kind of in line and that you're not trying to just, you're not trying to be all things to this kid.
Speaker 1:Right. You're staying in your lane.
Speaker 2:Well and here's one thing that you just said. As we have run a mentoring organization, we've learned that it's not enough to ask the mentor. Yeah. Because we've asked the mentor, hey, how's it going with the kid? Oh, it's great.
Speaker 2:I've been showing up every other week. I've spent a bunch of time with them. And then we go to the kid and we're like, hey, I heard that things are going awesome with your mentor. And he said, I haven't seen him in 6 months. And then that's interesting because he just said that he's been with you.
Speaker 2:Right? Yeah. And then we have to ask ourselves a couple of questions. Who's telling the truth? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And then we involve mom. Right? Hey, mom. What are you seeing? Oh, they're hanging out once a month.
Speaker 2:Well, your son said that he hasn't seen him in 6 months. Oh, he's just upset, you know, or oh, he's just having a bad day. Well, the mentor says it's twice a month. Oh, yeah. That's not true.
Speaker 2:So it's like get information from all 3 parties
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that you have the full story. That's something that we've learned. It's not enough just to talk to the mentor. It's not enough just to talk to kid. You've gotta talk to all 3 parties.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's huge.
Speaker 2:It's I mean, better to be safe than sorry. I that's a that's a common phrase, but here, it's like, better to be safe than sorry. Better to ask too many questions than not enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I think that's a huge thing of just make sure you'd cover all of your bases on who you're talking to. And if you have a handbook if you're an organization that has a handbook, good. Good. Because you are you're giving your mentors a set of rules, and that is so important.
Speaker 1:And if you're a mentor and you are given a handbook, and you said, I just signed it, but you didn't take the time to read it, I would highly suggest going back and actually reading the handbook because there's a reason that you're given that.
Speaker 2:Right. If you are a mentoring organization and you don't have a handbook, holler at us. You can have ours.
Speaker 1:Seriously.
Speaker 2:And you can just, you know, you can just steal it. It's fine. If you are a mentoring organization, you guys have to have insurance. Mhmm. You have to have policies and procedures.
Speaker 2:Gotta have trainings. You've gotta set aside time every month, every 2 months, every quarter, every year to teach your mentors best practices. You've gotta have red line reminders, which we'll cover here in a second. Mhmm. You've got to teach them the common sense things that you think that you shouldn't have to say, but that everyone needs to hear.
Speaker 2:Here's a story for us. We had a staff member that was transporting our kids from school and back in a 15 passenger van. It was our 1st year. This was a couple years ago. And I didn't think I had to teach someone to be safe in a van.
Speaker 2:Right? I was like, the it's common sense. Like, you're transporting children. Don't speed. Don't play games.
Speaker 2:Like, you know, just be as safe as you can. I didn't think that I had to tell him that, but I did. And one day, we're walking out of our after school program, and we see our staff member doing circles in the parking lot in one of our vans. And as we're watching this, the door flies open, and one of our kids falls out. Now think about that.
Speaker 2:A kid fell out of our moving vehicle in a parking lot while the van was still moving. Now, luckily, they were only going about 5 or 6 miles an hour. Luckily, he didn't get hurt. Luckily, he didn't get run over. Luckily, he didn't die.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. I didn't think I had to tell that staff member, hey, don't do donuts in the parking lot, you fool.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I guess we do. Mhmm. And it was at that moment that we're like, Caroline, we're gonna hire you to be our safety coordinator, and we gotta talk about everything. We can't can't assume anything. No.
Speaker 2:He could have gotten run over, and that would have been the end of us. Mhmm. All because I thought that I didn't have to say something. So learn from our mistakes. Let's talk about red line reminders.
Speaker 2:What what is that? Mhmm. And then what are ours? And then how often do you share them with our staff?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I actually stole this from Sky Ranch ShoutOut. They taught me everything I know. Love them. So a red line reminder is a rule, guideline, or protocol that if broken, will not be tolerated.
Speaker 1:And we teach our mentors this, but we require our part time staff members to sign it because they're interacting with our kids every single day. And if you are into routines at all, sometimes you just go on autopilot.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And so this is just a monthly wake up call to all staff members of, hey. If you're doing this, you're gonna get fired. And so staff members sign this too, and I think that's a big thing to note because if they break one of these, I can pull out their most recent red line reminder and say, well, you signed here that you weren't gonna be doing this.
Speaker 2:Every month?
Speaker 1:Every month. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Every month they sign it.
Speaker 1:Yep. And so I'm just gonna read through this, and then we'll talk more about we'll go in in-depth about some of these. But these are, like, our main rules that we will not tolerate if broken. Okay. At no point will a staff member be alone with a child.
Speaker 1:Staff members must always follow the rule of 3. That just means 3 people have to be together at all times. The staff member can't be 1 on 1 in a, say, in a closed off space. And then if a child needs your help in the bathroom, an additional staff member must be called.
Speaker 2:So for us, we hired an extra part time person, and their job is to be on call Yep. For situations like this.
Speaker 1:Yep. They're the 3rd wheel at all times.
Speaker 2:Which was a lot like me in high school. I'm sorry. I don't wanna talk about it.
Speaker 1:It's okay. Alright. Forerunner staff will not use physical punishment when disciplining a child. I don't care what your views are on spanking. We don't do it here.
Speaker 1:Forerunner will not tolerate the inappropriate use of force or restraint to discipline or correct a child. I will tell a story on this really quick. So if you are part of an organization of kids, you might, every once in a while, see a fight or have a kid try to run away. In those moments, you can separate the kids or you can hold back a child from literally throwing themselves into a busy street.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That has happened with us before, but that's why we say inappropriate use. So if a kid is just not doing what they you want them to do, we don't just pick them up and drag them around or restrain them.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's not cool. All doors to the 4 Runner mentoring buildings must be locked at all times.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna say something on that. Uh-huh. So I love convenience, and I hate unlocking doors.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But guess what? Even though I'm in charge, even though I'm the boss, I need to get over that. Mhmm. Because do you remember this? 1 Friday afternoon, there was a man who approached our building.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And he was asking us for money. And thank God, all the doors were locked.
Speaker 1:He was not asking kindly.
Speaker 2:He was not asking kindly. Mhmm. We don't know. Yeah. Just it wasn't good.
Speaker 2:No. I'll just say that much. And I had to go downstairs. And thank God I'm a big guy, but he threatened to fight me. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And we had to call 911, and 911 came. And the guy was lurking around our building, and we had to go and shut down. Mhmm. But just imagine if I didn't lock the door because I was lazy. What could have happened?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So if you need to buy new locks, if you need to install a camera system, like, do whatever you got to do. Buy a door with a push bar. Like, do whatever you got to do to lock the doors and to keep safety top of mind. If you don't have the money for this, go to a foundation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And
Speaker 2:just say, hey, look. I need $1,000. I need $2,000 for the safety of our kids, and I'm pretty sure that they're gonna give it to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think so too. That's a big one. At no point whatsoever will a staff member inappropriately touch, tickle, grope, hold, or fondle a child. Foreigner staff will not use foul or crass language.
Speaker 1:This includes, but is not limited to, cursing, racial slurs, name calling, sexual language that is not age appropriate or inappropriate joking.
Speaker 2:I'll say this for men specifically. Mhmm. Don't be the older dude who talks about, you know, girls or makes fun of a child using inappropriate stuff. Like, be a father, not a brother.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And, like, I would rather you be the godly guy than the funny guy.
Speaker 1:Amen. Every child's voice matters. If a child asks you to stop, foreigner expects the staff member to listen to the child. These situations include, but are not limited to, hugging, playing, joking with, etcetera. If a kid doesn't like you touching his hair and he keeps asking you to stop, stop touching his hair.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Just don't do it. They have personal space too. If you hear of or suspect the ongoing abuse of a child, you are legally responsible to report. Immediately contact your supervisor, and he or she will walk you through the process of reporting abuse.
Speaker 1:This is a requirement of both Forerunner and Texas law. You will not be penalized for reporting in good faith, which just means you can't be you can't get in trouble for reporting abuse if it turns out that nothing's happening, if you really do believe that it's going
Speaker 2:on. Yeah. So there as a teacher, I had to do this once. And the mom suspected it was me, and she came up to me and she I mean, she led into me. And it was hard.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. But I had to know that even if I was wrong, the safety of the child was the most important thing. Yeah. And if I have to endure her abuse and if I have to endure me making myself uncomfortable for the safety of that child, I'm gonna do it every time.
Speaker 1:Yep. Huge deal. And then the last one was already it was kind of the a restatement of the first one, but all children must be supervised at all times. There must never be a point at which a child is left alone. So if you need these, ask us, and we will send them to you.
Speaker 1:And just replace your name
Speaker 2:With ours.
Speaker 1:Or our name with yours.
Speaker 2:Yes. That's good. That's great stuff. The red line reminders. Big deal.
Speaker 2:Next up, we're just gonna go about some general rules to live by, and we've talked about a couple of these. But the first one thing is just over communicate with the guardian. Yep. You know, text when you leave, text when you get there. If there's a change of plan, text.
Speaker 2:Even with the older kids.
Speaker 1:Yes. Right? Even with them.
Speaker 2:Over communicate, honor mom. You gotta go with the rule of 3. We've talked about that some, but Caroline, can you just say that again because it's so important. Even if you're taking your kid on a mentoring event.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the rule of 3 just means there should always be a 3rd wheel. There should always be a witness. And this we said this at the at the top, but this is for your safety too.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So we all can think of someone that's been, you know, accused of sexual abuse or sexual harassment or something like that in the media or in your personal life. And this helps avoid that. And so just don't put your yourself in a situation that could get messy. Don't go sit in a room by yourself with the door closed with the kid and not tell anybody where you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because anyone can accuse you of something, and then if no one else is there besides you and the kid, you have nothing to go off of.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so that doesn't mean, like, you can't. It's hard because some some mentors, you might be thinking, well, can I never just hang out with me and this kid? And you can, but do it in a public place.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Go to the park. Go to sit at a bronze or sit somewhere, go somewhere where there will be other people around.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, like, if you're picking up your kid and if you're gonna go to the park that's a mile down the road, if you're gonna be in the car with just him for that short amount of time, One, like, you have to understand that that's that's that's kind of a gray area.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But we also want to to say that there is some value in getting that one on one time. Mhmm. But communicate with mom and just be like, hey. I mean, just tell her what's up. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just better to be safe than sorry.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And so now I would say, like, you probably don't need to be 1 on 1 with a kid who's 6. Like, because, like, it's not gonna be having deep conversations. But with a kid who's, like, 15 or 16, that's one thing? What do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I would I would still say in that situation, like, don't don't go, like, to your house
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:By yourself when, like, no one else is there. Or don't go to his house by yourself.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You want to be above reproach in every area. And so even with the older kids, like, you might be thinking, mom doesn't really care, or mom has, like, told me go do whatever you want with the kid. It is still honoring to her when you say, I'm going here with your son.
Speaker 2:Well, here's here's what I do. My third wheel is my 6 year old son. And this does a number of things. 1, it protects me. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:2, my kid is being mentored by my mentee. 3, it's just more fun. Like, my kid loves hanging out with the kids in our program Mhmm. Because they're like older brothers Yeah. And they're cool.
Speaker 2:They're so much cooler than I am. You know, I'm kinda cool. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. You are.
Speaker 2:Sometimes. I have a backwards hat Nice. Which makes me cool. But, yes.
Speaker 1:Was just
Speaker 2:a hat. I wear hats. I'm cool. But, yeah, just best practice rule 3, guys. Know that public spaces are great.
Speaker 2:Parks, going on walks, going to the grocery store, like, just public places. Yep. Don't go to secluded places. And then just ask mom and dad. Ask grandma.
Speaker 2:Ask aunt and uncle. Whoever the kid lives with. Mhmm. Hey, what are some things that your kid likes to do? What are some things I shouldn't do?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Do you is it okay if we go see a movie? Is it okay if we go play basketball? Is it okay you know, just asking permission is a huge deal. Don't don't just tell them what you're doing, but ask them and be specific with all of the details as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because you just never know. Like, some parents might be like, well, I don't let my kid eat sugar before dinner.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And then you're, like, walking home with milkshakes and candy, and that can just be that doesn't help you.
Speaker 2:That's dishonoring.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it might not seem like a big deal to you, but mom or dad might be thinking, well, they totally just broke my rule, and you don't want to be a rule breaker with the kid.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So and then on that too, please, it's the opposite of what the saying says, but always ask permission instead of forgiveness Mhmm.
Speaker 2:In
Speaker 1:this. And so over, over, over, over, over communicate.
Speaker 2:That's good, Caroline. Alright. Let's talk about some things to avoid. Alright. This might seem like common sense, but for some people it might not be common sense.
Speaker 2:And so we're we're just gonna keep on talking about these things because it's a big deal. And they're worth talking about it because our kids are worth it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:These are some things to avoid. First off, just the long embrace, you know, that that can just be kinda weird.
Speaker 1:It is. Especially if and we're just gonna get real real here, guys. If you are a 6 foot tall man, and you're mentoring a 6 year old kid, and you they run up to you and give you a full frontal hug, their head is probably crotch level.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And if you give a long embrace, that is weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that's not okay. No. So what do we do to combat that? We do the side hug.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:We do the high five. Mhmm. So I used to be a junior high teacher and not to, you know, not to toot my horn here, but, you know, the 7th grade and 8th grade girls, they thought that I was cute. And so they would try to come up to me and sometimes they would, you know, try to give me hugs, and that's inappropriate. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So what I learned to do is anytime someone called my name, I would turn around and I would put my hip out, and then I would give him a high five.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. The hip check.
Speaker 2:It was this weird, like, like, this weird, like, movement that I made, but I ensured that I never gave anyone a hug that was full frontal.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And, you know, most of the time, it was high five. Every once in a while, they would they would Snuck in there. Get in there fast, but it would be side hug. Yeah. And I I would cut that thing off ASAP.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. But just know with the tricks.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because they're children. Right? And so, like, the kids who are in our program, they're 6 and 7, and they want affection. And, like, that can be a healthy affection is can be a good thing. But you have to be the one to make it healthy because they don't know what is healthy and what is not.
Speaker 1:Right. Good.
Speaker 2:Massages, tickling, wrestling, groping, lengthy pats on the back, it's just not okay for us to do that, you know. And that's unfortunate, but that's just where we're at today. 1, you don't wanna make the kid feel uncomfortable. 2, you don't wanna put yourself in a weird spot. But 3, how does that look towards others?
Speaker 1:Right. If someone walks if someone walks past you and you're giving a kid a massage, I have some questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The next one. Just
Speaker 1:oh. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Just don't let kids climb all over you. Yeah. Like, it's okay to say no. Hey, man. No, thanks.
Speaker 2:Like, 1, because I'm old and my back hurts. But 2, just like you're not a jungle gym. Right? Tell them tell the audience how to redirect whenever a kid is super, super touchy with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Great way to redirect them is to just hold on to their shoulders and physically move them, kneel down, spin around if they're climbing on your back. Spin around, grab them on the shoulders, kneel down, get face to face with them, because that's what they're looking for. They're looking for you to give them attention. And you can just say, hey, I love being here with you.
Speaker 1:Let's go do x y z thing instead.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Because all they're looking for is for you to say, I'm so glad that we're here together.
Speaker 2:Right. Give them attention in a healthy way. Yeah. Go play basketball. You know, go on a walk.
Speaker 2:Sit down and have a conversation. Play soccer. Do whatever you need to do to give them what they need Mhmm. In a healthy way. If you are asking yourself, is this healthy or not?
Speaker 2:It's probably not. So air on the side of caution.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Don't let 4 runners sit on your lap. Don't give piggyback rides. Don't lay down with a child. Don't let kids climb on you. Don't tickle a child or let a child tickle you.
Speaker 2:I have a son who's 6 and he loves to wrestle and he I mean, he loves to to fight. He loves to tickle. He's very I mean, he's just very physical. Mhmm. And I'm having to teach him, hey, like, it's not okay to tickle adults.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. You know? And, like, his heart is pure. Like, he he just wants to be loved. He just wants attention.
Speaker 2:But it's my job as the adult to teach him and to not allow him to get into those habits that could be misconstrued. Yeah. Don't give any type of massage. I mean, that's that's a big one. Don't don't touch a child's private areas, their chest, their bottom, their genitals, or let a child touch your private areas.
Speaker 2:Don't initiate full frontal hugs or let other people full frontal hug you. Don't initiate kisses or let other people children kiss you. Don't name call. Do not share secrets. Caroline, can you share about that one?
Speaker 1:Yeah. A lot of kids will say, hey, can I tell you a secret? And oftentimes, it's, like, super silly. But every once in a while, they might be wanting to tell you something really serious. And so we just from the get go want to have the standard of no secret.
Speaker 1:So if a kid asks you, I wanna tell you something, but you can't tell anyone else. That is never a good sign. Do not say yes to that. You that is a secret. And so instead, you can say something along the lines of, thank you so much for wanting to tell to tell me something.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't share secrets, but I would still love for you to tell me what's going on. And the reason is because I wanna keep you safe. And so I won't you can say, like, I'm not gonna go tell every single person what you say, like, if they keep pressing it, but you can still say, like, it's my job to keep you safe so I don't commit to sharing secrets.
Speaker 2:So tell me why secrets are such a big deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So most most abusers, most physical sexual abusers, they will shame a child after being after they've molested them, and say, like, I'm gonna tell your mom blank if you tell her that I touched you. Or I'm gonna tell a big one is a big one that has gone on is, like, I'm gonna tell everybody that you're gay, which that's just something that abusers say to kids. And some kids may may either may not wanna tell people if they really are feeling that or they don't I'm trying to figure out how to say this. We don't share secrets because that puts you in a bad position, and abusers are the ones that force kids into keeping secrets from other people.
Speaker 1:And so you do not want to be adding to the secrets that are being kept if an abuser is already asking a kid to share a secret.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's just like those secrets can be ammo that abusers can use to to get a hold on them. Yeah. And it's a big deal. If if you don't know the tendencies of people who molest children, what are some of those things Yeah.
Speaker 2:Caroline?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, unfortunately, no abuser looks the same. Mhmm. So there's no, like they're always this age, and they always dress like this. Like, that's just not the case.
Speaker 1:But they usually are I would say most of them, they're always in ministry. Like, they're always hopping around ministry to ministry or trying to be around kids all the time. And then, typically, they have something that they do all the time. So the one that I can think of off the top of my head is and Ministry Safe goes over this, but Pete Newman from Cannekuk, he's a convicted abuser, and he had what he called a hot tub talk.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And it was a thing that when he came to Dallas or wherever to minister to CanCook Families, he would only stay at people's houses with hot tubs, and that's where he molested kids. And so they always find a way in with the parent first, and usually, they have a thing that they do all the time. Mhmm. And so, like, there this is a hard conversation because you as a mentor might be thinking, well, I always love playing basketball with my mentee. That does not I'm not saying that you are, like Right.
Speaker 1:Someone who molested molest kids. But it is important as a mentor to make sure that if you and your mentee have a thing that you guys do, like, you guys more people should know about it than just you 2.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So mom should know about it. The organization that you are mentoring under should know about it.
Speaker 2:Your wife.
Speaker 1:Your wife should know about your friends. Yeah. And like, you you don't wanna keep anything to yourself and to your mentee. It should be an open book.
Speaker 2:Yeah. When, like, this is what's so crazy about mentoring, specifically at risk kids Mhmm. Who have a higher likelihood of, experiencing abuse. Yeah. Is that what we tell our mentors to do is pretty close to textbook what abusers do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, we're taking the most vulnerable kids and we're 1 on 1. We're matching them up with a stranger, and we're saying, hey, go spend time with them and grow an intimate relationship.
Speaker 1:It's a risk.
Speaker 2:And so it's like now, there's 2 ways that I can go. Well, there's 3 ways that I can go about that. 1, I can say it's too risky. Not gonna do it. I'm shutting the doors today because I'm fearful that a kid's gonna get hurt on my watch.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. The second way is I can be like, I'm gonna mentor, but I'm not gonna take it seriously because it'll be fine. Right? Everything will work out. That's not wise.
Speaker 2:That's not being a good steward. That's not being faithful with what the Lord has entrusted you with. There's a third way, and this is what we encourage this is what I demand here because of you. And because I've surrounded myself with wise people who I can learn from, and I've had to learn what a safe environment looks like. The third way is this, make it as difficult as possible for anyone to hurt your children.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Train, spend the money, go, surround yourself with experts, hire someone who's on their job description is safety, and it's more than just a job they truly care about it. Mhmm. Have the policies, have the procedures, have the trainings, have the insurance. Do everything you gotta do to make your program as safe as possible. And if a mentor gets mad because it's too much, then so be it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Go find somewhere else.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because here the top concern is safety.
Speaker 1:Right. Right. So good.
Speaker 2:That's good stuff. If you aren't aware of how abusers act, I encourage you to train yourself on that. And Ministry Safe is is how we do it. We got about 5 or 6 more. Don't do inappropriate jokings.
Speaker 2:Don't make derogatory remarks about a child or their family. Yeah. Even if dad is a bad guy, even if the cousin is in prison, just whatever. Just honor. Culture of honor.
Speaker 2:Don't use language that intentionally scares or humiliates a child. Don't discuss your personal sex life with children.
Speaker 1:Even older kids.
Speaker 2:Even older kids. If you are going to teach a kid about sex, then you better have mom's permission. Yep. And you better do it in a super wise way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And if you it's a good thing to share your testimony.
Speaker 2:Yes. But Know how to do it the right way.
Speaker 1:It doesn't need to be super detailed.
Speaker 2:Right. I would say how I would do it, if I wanted to teach my kids about sex, which now it's becoming like, you need to have that talk early. Mhmm. Do it with another mentor or 2 or 3. Have a group conversation.
Speaker 2:Let mom know. Like, be smart. Mhmm. Don't force her don't force or pressure a child to say that they love you or love someone else. You know, oh, you just why don't you just give that person a hug?
Speaker 2:They really want you know, no. Like, don't force them to do something that they don't wanna do. Don't use sarcasm. It's a big one. I feel like I'm a pretty sarcastic guy, and I've had to learn how to not be that because kids don't get it.
Speaker 2:They don't understand it.
Speaker 1:Just developmentally, they can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like and it hurts them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? And so just, like, just be nice. Just be kind. Mhmm. Be the godly person, not the funny person.
Speaker 2:That's great. What are some of the last tips and perspectives that have helped you as you've kinda grown in this role, Caroline?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I would say one of the big ones is it has been hard, quite honestly, hard for me to accept that physical affection is good and needed. Mhmm. Because it's really easy to have a conversation like this and to be like, oh.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Nope. No. No. No.
Speaker 2:No. No.
Speaker 1:I gotta be stone cold Yeah. And, like, just say nice things and never show them any Right. Love.
Speaker 2:Right. Would you like a hug, Minty? Sign this waiver and then watch this 10 minute video course, and then I'll hug you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. That is not what we are saying. But what we are saying is, hey, this is a big deal, and there's a wise way to do this and an unhealthy way to do this. Because at the end of the day, we all need physical affection.
Speaker 1:And kids, they need to be hugged.
Speaker 2:Most definitely.
Speaker 1:They need to be given a high five. They need to be kneeled down next to and told, like, I'm so glad I'm here with you. Yes.
Speaker 2:Make eye contact.
Speaker 1:Yes. Because these are good things. And it's just this is just a new lens that we want to give you on how to, like, look at physical affection or safety in general because really what it comes down to is stewardship. And we all wanna be good stewards of what the Lord has given us, and this is just an added thing. So that's kind of a big one.
Speaker 1:And then respecting space is a huge thing. You might not love giving hugs. A kid might not like being hugged, and that's okay. And it is okay to have a conversation with a mentee and say like, do you do you like fist bumps or high fives better?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's great.
Speaker 1:That's not weird. Mhmm. It is weird if you're asking weird questions, but, like, you have an opportunity to help teach kids how to interact with other people physically, emotionally, and how to start having boundaries for themselves that maybe they don't know exist.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Because if you were not taught boundaries, you have a really hard time of creating them or you'll create them in a really unhealthy way. And so you as the adult in this relationship have an opportunity to say, hey. You know, it's okay to ask questions if you don't or to tell someone that you don't like that when they do something. And it's okay to tell someone someone else. Like, if you don't like it when I give you a hug, it's okay if you tell your mom that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And you are setting them up for so much success in their life because they're gonna remember, hey. My mentor told me that I don't have to like that.
Speaker 2:Right. Like, I know for me, you know, as a former teacher and a teacher who taught in 7th 8th grade Mhmm. To watch children try to navigate physical affection on their own Yeah. You know, like 1, it's just like the most awkward thing that I've ever seen. But 2, it's just like there's a right way to do things and there's a wrong way to do things.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And what an opportunity we have as mentors to teach that. Yeah. You know, what an opportunity we have to teach emotional safety. You know, like creating a safe place for a kid to share, for a kid to be himself, for a kid to question things, for a kid to ask questions, for a kid to to cry and to laugh.
Speaker 2:Spiritual safety. Right? Like, hey. Like, we're not gonna, you know, give them things that they're not, like, old enough to understand. Right.
Speaker 2:We're not gonna force them to do things. You know, it's just, like, creating a safe environment for your mentee to flourish in is of the utmost of importance. And we get a great opportunity to show them how to do that. So that one day, they can teach their kids.
Speaker 1:That's so good.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 1:because they're gonna look for it somewhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 1:At some point in their life, they're gonna look for it somewhere. And you have the opportunity to intervene now and Mhmm. Teach them.
Speaker 2:And to teach them the ways of Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's right.
Speaker 2:The way to everlasting. Alright. Caroline Tidwell, safety coordinator here at 4 Runner. We're grateful for you.
Speaker 1:Thanks. It's really fun.
Speaker 2:We think you're awesome.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Well, if y'all if you're an organization out there and have no idea Yeah. Where to start, please come ask us.
Speaker 2:Holler at us.
Speaker 1:Because we're an open book and we want to keep not just our kids safe, but your kids safe too.
Speaker 2:That's right. You guys, you can mentor.
Speaker 1:You can mentor. You can mentor safely.
Speaker 2:Safely. See you.