The Hidden System Behind How You Make Decisions and Take Action

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What if the reason some work feels easy for you—and hard for someone else—has nothing to do with personality or intelligence? In this episode, Christine Morrow explains how the Kolbe assessment measures the instinctive ways people solve problems, make decisions, and take action. She breaks down how Kolbe differs from personality tests and cognitive tests, and why understanding your natural mode of operation can change the way you work, hire, parent, and lead.

Christine also shares how Kolbe can be used in real life, from team training and hiring to understanding children, spouses, and workplace roles. Tyson reflects on his own Kolbe results and talks through how knowing your score can help you give yourself more grace, understand where you thrive, and recognize where you may need support from others.

Throughout the conversation, Christine makes the case that there is no such thing as a bad Kolbe score. Instead, the goal is to understand how you naturally operate so you can do more of what matters in a way that feels more natural, sustainable, and effective.

• 2:21 Why Kolbe focuses on how you naturally get things done
• 7:03 How life transitions can affect assessment results
• 23:51 What implementer really means and why people misunderstand it
• 35:01 The idea behind doing more, more naturally
• 52:50 Why there is no such thing as a bad Kolbe score
• 1:05:18 Why Kolbe scores are not inherited
• 1:08:58 How Kathy Kolbe used her strengths after a traumatic brain injury
  
  
  

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Tyson Mutrux

Tyson is the founder of Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers and the co-founder of Maximum Lawyer.

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Maximum Lawyer is the podcast for law firm owners who want to scale with intention and build a business that works for their life.

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Christine Morrow 00:00:00 All right, Christine, I want to start with talking about Colby and how that assessment compares to all of the other. I don't know how many there are out there because we were just talking about Wonderlic and there's disc and all these other things like what is Colby and how is it different?

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:17 What a great start. So the three parts of the mind are the thing that people need to understand. And this is not something we invented. The ancient philosophers Plato, Aristotle, they figured this out thousands of years ago, that the way that our minds function have these three different main domains, and that is how you think or the cognitive part of our mind, how you feel about things or the affect personality, if you will. And then this third part of the mind called the cognitive, which has to do with the instinctive will you have the way that you get things done. And so when you look at different assessments that are out there. They look at different parts of the mind. Even though they're not telling you that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:04 Some do though. So cognitive tests, you'll have all these different kinds of tests, like the bar or the Act or the SAT or, you know, a spelling test. All of these are doing is measuring knowledge and understanding about something, anything you can learn, anything you can get an education. It's all in that cognitive part of our mind. The second part of our mind that is more of our personality has to do with why you're doing things. What's motivating you? what kind of social style do you have? How are people interacting with you? And there's a lot of personality tests out there that measure this part of the mind. What you like, what you want. And some of them are desc, Myers-Briggs. So those kinds of Wonderlic, which you mentioned earlier, is a cognitive test, but none of them look at the instinctive ways that you actually get things done. They talk about different strengths you have. Maybe you're an extrovert or an introvert, but they don't actually get to the bottom of how you're going to get things done, and what your best way of approaching problem solving, making decisions and taking action are.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:12 And that's what Colby is looking at, is what do you naturally do really well and how do you approach it?

Christine Morrow 00:02:21 I love that this is a great description now, but I want to give people a little bit of context out how to how I came to meet you, because I've talked about you on the show before, but for those of those people that have not actually like heard those, I want to talk about that. So we we contacted Colby and we were like, hey, we want someone to come and do a training. You were the person that was that did the training. You did an amazing job. And thank you. I sent a text to Becca, like, like right afterwards. I think it's like we we've got to try to get Christine on the show because I thought it was really, really cool. It was great. Will you talk a little bit about what you did for us? Because I think it might be helpful for people that might be interested in doing the same thing.

Christine Morrow 00:02:59 So we. Absolutely.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:00 Absolutely. So at Colby, we actually have a whole system for how to work with people. Okay. And so if you're working with anybody, you have to work with people. We're not all solopreneurs. Right. Somebody is is working with us. And so we help with identifying each person's individual strengths and how they approach their work. we help with optimizing the way that they approach their work and how they work with others, so that you can maximize collaboration. We help with alignment, where we align a person's strengths with their actual job and their tasks and the way they do their work. And we help with expanding or hiring any anybody in your in your business. What we did for you was our first webinar series, which is called identify. And we went through and we we broke it down. What the three parts of the mind were, and all of the different instinctive ways that people approach problem solving. And and then we really looked at in depth at your team and who on your team does things in what way and how that might complement somebody.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:11 Or it might be like a clone to somebody. And then how can you leverage your differences and and manage conflict in a way that's helpful?

Christine Morrow 00:04:19 Yeah, it was really interesting. It was very it was entertaining, which was hard to do with the training. It was like it was it was you made it really engaging and entertaining. So I appreciate you doing that. It was it was really good. I did find it fascinating. Like, so you and I had a conversation afterwards. We had a one on which I appreciate you doing as well. It was awesome. We're like, we kind of like, talked about my scores. And, I want to talk about specifically how the the Urals approach to your first assessment. And then if you were to take a subsequent assessment as to the accuracy of those. We talked about that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:54 I sure will. So yeah, you presented me with a unique challenge during the training. Oh, by the way, I've taken it twice. I didn't know that going in.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:02 So that was that was really special. But it was.

Christine Morrow 00:05:05 A special way of putting it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:07 But it was also really good for the team to see. Sure. Because we've done a lot of research. So Colby just celebrated our 50th year in business.

Christine Morrow 00:05:17 Nice.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:17 Okay. Thank you. And one of the things that we do periodically, every 5 or 10 years is what we call a test retest reliability study. Okay, we take people who took the Colby index decades ago, and then we have them take it again blind and we compare is there a difference or not. And more than 90% of the time right now we're at over 25 years, I think almost 30 now that we've done our studies, more than 90% of the time. The results don't change outside of a small margin of error. And so you took the Colby index in 2020 and got the result five, three, six, six. And then you took it again in 2023. And you had a much longer Green Line. And what we found out from our conversation is that when you took it in 2023, you weren't really being free to be yourself.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:15 And that's the key to taking the Colby index. And that's the reason that the person's first result is almost always solid and never needs to be addressed again. They never need to take it again. And if they do, the results are going to be so similar. Because when you are free to be yourself and you don't have any preconceived ideas, and you take the the when you answer the questions in a way that you're free to be yourself, then we get the pure sense of how you naturally are going to get things done and be your very best self.

Christine Morrow 00:06:53 So you had mentioned, and I may use the wrong word, but sometimes what might lead to an error if someone is in like a transition phase. Yeah, you talk about that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:03 So sometimes about, you know, a little bit under 10% of the time, the first time a person takes a Colby index, their experience, some transition or change in their life. And when they go to answer the questions on the assessment, they aren't free to be themselves.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:21 And it's not because they're not trying to be. It's because too many things are pulling them in different directions. Sure. And so because they're being pulled in all these different directions, they can't accurately self-report what is actually true about themselves at that time. This usually happens in times of great change in a person's life, like a new job, or they lost a job or, just graduated from college or high school or something like that. A change in your family, a new child, a new relationship. An elderly parent needs extra care. All of these things really kind of pull the rug out from underneath you for a short period of time, and make it difficult to really get in the zone and figure out what your best way of getting things done is.

Christine Morrow 00:08:09 Yeah, I I'm very curious. You've been working. You've worked for Colby for 14 years. What drew you to Colby?

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:17 I was recruited.

Christine Morrow 00:08:19 Oh, okay. Let's talk about that. What's your score, by the way?

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:23 So my Colby result is six seven, seven two.

Christine Morrow 00:08:26 Okay. And that has a different lot. We're similar in some things, but not in others.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:30 But yeah.

Christine Morrow 00:08:31 That's true. Okay. Is that why you were recruited? Is because of your number or was it other reasons?

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:36 So isn't that a great question? I'm just going to tell you the story briefly. I was recruited for Colby for a sales manager position that had opened up and I was looking, but I hadn't really gone looking. Right. So. I had updated my LinkedIn and so a recruiter noticed, as they do, you know, and this was a long time ago, so things weren't as prolific as they are now. but I was contacted by this recruiter, said, I have a job that I think you would be a good fit for. And, so you have to take this assessment, though.

Christine Morrow 00:09:10 Okay. Pause for a second. You're told you had to take this assessment as a when you're applying to the job candidate, what went through your head whenever they asked you to do that?

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:21 It didn't faze me at all.

Christine Morrow 00:09:23 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:23 Okay. So I there's a fun story that tells you a little bit about my my way of getting things done. When I moved to Phoenix with my 15 year old son, I didn't have a job.

Christine Morrow 00:09:35 Wow. Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:36 But I knew that I could get one, okay, even if it was just a sales job somewhere. And so the first two weeks I was here, I applied 80 places. I had 12 interviews and ten offers.

Christine Morrow 00:09:48 Holy geez.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:49 Okay. None of them were great.

Christine Morrow 00:09:50 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:51 So I took the one that I thought had the best potential and was working there, not making great money, single mom in it and doing all of those things. and so after a year and I was working for a Google contractor, so it was actually a pretty good job with really great training.

Christine Morrow 00:10:06 Sure.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:08 so after about a year, though, I was like, this is not going to be a long term solution. And so that's when I had updated my my resume, if you will.

Christine Morrow 00:10:17 Okay. So unpause. You took you took the assessment.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:20 So I took the so when I went to work for that contractor though I had to take three assessments.

Christine Morrow 00:10:24 Oh okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:25 Okay. So it was like.

Christine Morrow 00:10:27 Not as good as they were. Do you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:28 Remember? I don't know the names of them.

Christine Morrow 00:10:29 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:30 There were HR assessments. I'm. Am I going to lie? Can I spell and can I use Excel basically.

Christine Morrow 00:10:36 That's that's I guess those are could be necessary for the job. I guess.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:42 You're right. Right. So now fast forward when it's when I took the Colby index and I got my result, I was able to see it, and I read it and was like, yeah, this is pretty. Pretty. Right on. Kind of cool. Yeah. But I didn't know who Colby was, and I didn't know that they were the ones recruiting me either yet.

Christine Morrow 00:10:57 Seems like a blind test.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:58 Yeah, it was.

Christine Morrow 00:10:59 Just her blind job recruiting. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:02 She didn't want me to go around her to them directly.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:05 Right?

Christine Morrow 00:11:05 Yeah. So interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:07 So she just gave me the assessment, and then, a couple days later, she called me and she said, hey, they are interested in meeting with you. And so I went in for an interview, and the interview was was great. except at the end, Amy Bruschi, who was doing the interviewing, she looked at me. She said, I have to be really honest with you. We already filled the position.

Christine Morrow 00:11:32 Oh, no.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:33 We just sent the offer letter this morning, and and he he has accepted. So this position is actually not open anymore, but we are still interested in talking to you about something else. I was like, okay, not quite sure what that means, but I'm a six, seven, seven two. And that means that I can not only improvise, I actually do really well in situations where I need to. And so that's what I did. And so did they. And they called me back and ended up creating a kind of a hybrid position for me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:07 And I've been there ever since.

Christine Morrow 00:12:09 That's incredible.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:10 Yeah.

Christine Morrow 00:12:11 Wow.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:11 And I've worked in a lot of different areas at Colby and worn a lot of different hats.

Christine Morrow 00:12:17 Well, you from talking to you like one on one, you ooze Colby like you. You eat, breathe, sleep. Colby. Which is really. You moved to be close to their office, which is interesting. what is it about Colby that you love so much? Oh.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:35 What I really, really.

Speaker 3 00:12:36 Love about it is it helps set people free.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:39 And it helps people improve their lives in ways that make a difference for the rest of their lives. And when you find this information out and you understand how to apply it, you can touch every aspect of your life in a way that reduces.

Speaker 3 00:12:59 Your stress.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:00 Improves the amount of joy and fulfillment that you have so that you can really be more, not just more productive, which is a great buzzword, but.

Speaker 3 00:13:09 Actually.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:10 Do the things that you care about and and move the needle and reach the goals and the dreams and the callings and the aspirations that you have.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:19 You know.

Christine Morrow 00:13:20 Yeah, it's interesting you said what you said about freeing you, because I will say it's allowed me to give myself more grace on certain things because and I think that people that take it, they will they might beat themselves up over certain things until they do understand themselves a little bit more. So I think that part's really important. Yeah. did you get any sort of release like that? I feel like I kind of got this, like, freeing feeling whenever you started to talk about it during the training. And then when we talked afterwards, so did you. I wonder if you had that similar experience.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:54 So it didn't really affect me that profoundly. it it helped me to put words to something that I've always known about myself, and that is that I'm that person that gets stuff done. And everybody in my life and my family and my personal life, if they need to get something done or they need to figure out how to approach something, they call me. And that's kind of what my M.O. will tell you about me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:22 What it did, though, is I had my son assessed, and that was profound. my son at that time was 17 and had just dropped out of high school, Well. And he was a smart kid, an elite athlete that had gotten injured. And I was always like this with him. We were butting heads. We were not on the same page. It was very, very traumatic for both of us. And then I found out his Colby result and his Colby result was four, three, five, eight. What that means is that he led with this hands on physical approach to everything. Everything was physical to him and and hands on. And if it didn't work that way, it was not working for him. And he was a three and follow through, just like you. And what that means is that the way that he dealt with organization and structure was to resist it and to find his own path. And because of that, school was not a really friendly place for him. The classroom was not healthy for him, and he was getting kicked out of class for chewing gum and for doodling.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:41 But those are the two kinds of movements that helped him to focus and concentrate. And I didn't understand that, and I didn't know how to parent him. And I felt like I had failed because he had dropped out of high school. And if I had only known what his Colby result was when he was younger and been able to set things up for him in a different way, then he wouldn't have had to go through that kind of experience. Now he's doing great. Now he's a very successful general contractor. He has a family. He's he's doing really, really well. But he had to find his way the hard way.

Christine Morrow 00:16:23 What a perfect job for him to it is. Okay. So I want to get into the different categories so people have an idea as to what we're talking about a little bit. But, because we're on the topic of children, I'd ask you a question. during our one on one about like, when's too early? We talked about like, is it is there a time where it's too early to take the assessment? so I'll just ask you that question.

Christine Morrow 00:16:48 I know the answer, but like what? What's the answer?

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:51 Yes. There is a time that it's too early.

Christine Morrow 00:16:53 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:54 the assessment requires you to be able to self-report to answer questions about your best way of getting things done. And with children, that's not as easy for them, because they're constantly conforming and adjusting and being told the right way in the wrong way, and which is a good thing. We have to teach them things. and so we have a, an assessment called the Colby Y index that is designed for about a fourth fifth grade reading level up to senior in high school. And we recommend that that children with that ability Can can take the Colby index. The questions are written in such a way that they will understand them in language that they they will get. And it has to do with, you know, classrooms and schools and all of that. And then they get a simpler result than what adults do to help them to navigate and make decisions. there's a parent guide that goes with that.

Christine Morrow 00:17:50 Oh, excellent.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:51 And the parent guide goes much more in depth to help not just parents, but any teacher or caregiver to be able to, put that kid into the best possible situations for success or to understand why they might struggle with something, even though cognitively they are more than smart enough to do something and they're trying really hard, they are motivated to do it with their affective part of their mind, but cognitively, it's just not the good fit for them.

Christine Morrow 00:18:24 So I've always wondered this. This is Colby y. Colby youth and Colby, a Colby adult, or is it something else?

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:33 No. I guess that makes sense. Colby A came first, and it used to be called the Colby Cognitive Index. Nobody knew what cognitive meant.

Christine Morrow 00:18:43 No.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:43 So it was simplified. And at Colby, we have the A, the B, the C, the Y. We're very, you know, basic as far as our, our naming convention because it sticks.

Christine Morrow 00:18:53 Yeah I like it. All right.

Christine Morrow 00:18:54 So let's talk about the categories for the Colby A what like what are the categories. What do they mean.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:59 So in the Colby index you have these four different instinctive behaviors that we talk about. Each one of them looks at a different way that we approach problem solving or making decisions. the first one looks at how do we deal with information. We all gather and share information, but we do this on a scale or a continuum that ranges from people who are naturally going to need a lot of information and are very specific to people on the other end of that scale who are more of a generalist, and they tend to simplify information. And then there's people in that middle in between those that bridge both of those areas and get enough information that they can explain something to other people, but they move on from there. You and I both fall in that middle zone category. a lot of people in your firm are in that seven are in that that very specific.

Christine Morrow 00:19:52 A lot of them. Yes.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:53 Category where they need a lot of information and they, they give out a lot of information.

Christine Morrow 00:19:59 Yeah. Okay. So the, the, the what are the four again or so fact.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:04 And then we call that one fact finder.

Christine Morrow 00:20:06 Yeah. And then on the other end of the fact is what simplify.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:10 So people who have a shorter red line or what a one, 2 or 3 in fact finder are people who naturally put things into a quick summary or bullet points. They can look at a lot of complex data and they just go, oh, this is the bottom line. And they do that instinctively. It's uncanny how quickly they can do that. It tends to make people with the longer red line uncomfortable because they're like, how could they possibly know that they didn't read all of the stuff. They don't know all the details. And and people who have that one, 2 or 3 just don't instinctively need that.

Christine Morrow 00:20:48 You brought a visual aid. Will you show that? Yes. So because when you're talking about the red line.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:54 So this is Tyson's result. I don't know where to show it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:58 Okay. So this is Tyson's result. He's a five in fact finder and I'm a six. So in that right in the middle between a one and a ten. And so there's, there's both ends of the spectrum on that.

Christine Morrow 00:21:10 Yeah. What was interesting is you talked about how, like in the extremes, those might mean certain things versus, and I don't know intelligently how to explain it the way you did, but how? Like in the extremes, it means like certain things versus when you're not in the extremes. We talk about that a little bit.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:29 I will and I did bring that chart.

Christine Morrow 00:21:31 Oh nice.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:32 I don't know if you want me to show it or not.

Christine Morrow 00:21:34 Oh, that'd be fine. Tell me. Yeah, absolutely.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:36 If this will work or not. Used to having slides and a computer?

Christine Morrow 00:21:41 No, not. And we can we can absolutely put it on the screen.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:44 Okay. So this is, this is it. And so there's 12 different Colby strengths. And so each one of these extremes in in fact finder you either specify or you explain or you simplify information.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:58 Yep. And so in follow through that's the blue one. The the it ranges from people who are very structured and always have a plan in place to people on the other end of that scale who are much more flexible and adaptable with how they deal with structure and patterns and plans. And then there's people in the middle who take the structure and they maintain it and they keep it moving forward in a way that is productive. So people like Tyson are in that one, 2 or 3 area in follow through, and they streamline through the processes. They make sure that they maybe take shortcuts.

Christine Morrow 00:22:37 No, I would never take a shortcut.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:39 You know, one, two, skip a few. Nine, ten.

Christine Morrow 00:22:42 All done.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:43 Exactly right. Exactly.

Christine Morrow 00:22:44 More like nine, 900. But that's. Yeah, that's.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:46 9900. I've heard that too. But I was, you know, trying to be nice. Yeah, yeah. You know, and and you don't thrive with a checklist, but you'll recognize when a checklist is necessary.

Christine Morrow 00:22:56 Which is funny because we operate on a lot of checklist in our firm, which is, I don't you're right. I don't like following checklist. You're absolutely right. That's that's that's 100% right. and then there's quick start. You have quick start as well. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:08 Quick start is the green one. And that's how we instinctively deal with risk and uncertainty. And we all have to deal with risk and uncertainty. We live in a world that's constantly changing, but we do this, that it ranges from people who are naturally, going to drive change. They are innovators. They are always looking for the next best challenge or the newest way to approach something. They have lots and lots of ideas all the time.

Christine Morrow 00:23:39 And then the last one is one I think it's maybe the most it was least understood by me. I understood it in a completely different way. We talk about that because it's like the physical environment.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:51 Implementer.

Christine Morrow 00:23:52 Because implementer is. And I and I guarantee from talking to other people, they thought about things the way I did.

Christine Morrow 00:23:57 When it comes to implementer, we thought about them as like, okay, this is like you're the one that implements things. And it's not that at all.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:04 No, no it isn't. And and we, we recognize that. It's just that we're so entrenched in our brand now that it's implementer. Right? We just spell it with an oar. We're not talking about the verb To implement, like implementing a software system or a plan or some kind of production. We're actually talking about how an individual uses implements and tools with their hands physically in the environment, the things they can touch, the things they can move, the things they can control tactically. And and so the instinct to do that has to do with how you deal with space, physical space and tangible items. And it ranges from people who naturally are very hands on and think in terms of literal concrete building materials. They think in three dimensions.

Christine Morrow 00:24:59 So for people that are, trying to connect the dots because I said something about why general contractor makes a lot of sense for your son, right? That's why.

Christine Morrow 00:25:08 Because he he is someone that's working with his hands a lot now and that that's why he makes a bunch of a lot of sense.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:14 Absolutely.

Christine Morrow 00:25:15 I had asked you about, like, does it work the same way with, like, softwares and things like that? Like, if you're building softwares, will you talk about that a little bit?

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:23 Yeah. So not exactly. Yeah. So the other side of that scale and implementer has to do with what is conceptual and what what is imagined and the things that are abstract and a lot of things that have to do with software and building code and things like that. Even though we use the word building, it's really much more conceptual and abstract. What we're doing, it's more like math than swinging a hammer. Right. And so it's it's just not quite the same thing. However, there is some three dimensional software design and CAD design and like video game design that can start to maybe draw on a different kind of strength in that implementer mode.

Christine Morrow 00:26:08 Yeah.

Christine Morrow 00:26:10 All right. So I want to I want to shift gears a little bit just a little bit. And I don't know if this is something I picked up from you or where I got it, but is it fair to say that if you're under intense, you know, stress or an intense situation, you sort of default to your your baseline scores? Is that a fair assessment?

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:31 That's an interesting way to put it.

Christine Morrow 00:26:33 Okay. So I'm so glad you put me straight here.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:35 So I'm not actually putting you straight though. So you're pretty much right when when you are put under pressure, your instincts kick in because they are what's first. You aren't going to think about what do I need to do here? You're not going to be figuring out, am I motivated to do this? Do I like this? Do I prefer this? No. You have to act right now. That's when your instincts will kick in. And. And these kinds of striving instincts will. You'll make a quick decision because a decision has to be made.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:04 Or you'll take an action because an action must be taken. rather than maybe. Freeze.

Christine Morrow 00:27:11 Got it. Okay. When it comes to the scores. Yes, you. If you know your score, you can sort of adjust your environment, I guess, a little bit. Or you can adapt to it as the things you should do and shouldn't do. if you if you know someone else's scores, you can sort of, adjust how you deal with that person. How? What's your advice to people where like, for example, attorneys, we're dealing with the court systems that may not give a care if you are five, three, six, six, you know, like they they may not care if you are. Let's say your fact finder is really low. You're a you're really high or you're really high fact finder, whatever where you don't really we're not going to give you more time. So what is your advice to like people in dealing in a rigid world when it comes to their scores?

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:59 Well, the world doesn't revolve around us, does it?

Christine Morrow 00:28:02 Not at all.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:02 No. And so just because you know what your, your your Colby result is your Mo, your best way of getting things done doesn't mean that anybody else cares. And so you have to become your own best advocate and you have to set yourself up for success. So I'll pick on you since you're the one here.

Christine Morrow 00:28:20 Absolutely.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:21 This is your podcast. So your three and follow through must have been a lot of fun in law school. Okay.

Christine Morrow 00:28:27 It was a ton of fun.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:28 Okay, not that three and Follow through has this wonderful strength to be able to streamline through things. Find the shortcuts. Like you were saying, 1 to 9, ten, 100, right? And then your professors probably didn't like that very much.

Christine Morrow 00:28:42 Well, you know, I will tell you, I will say this. I've been kind of like jokingly picking on myself too, but I will. I've actually thought of it as a superpower. Yeah, because I feel like I can simplify things very easily. So I'll see this jumbled mess of stuff, and I don't like to mess around with the whole jumbled mess.

Christine Morrow 00:28:58 I'm not going to read through the whole jumbled mess. I'm just going to look at the things that are important in the jumbled mess and pick them out. So I actually saw it as a superpower in law school because I could easily see this. I. I really struggle with seeing. Okay, I've got 35 pages of this one case to read. I'm going to get to the freaking heart of what the what it is. And so I, I would use like horn books to like, okay, to kind of figure like just to digest it down. So that's I did kind of go from, you know, the whole 99, 100 I and so I did take some shortcuts. But to me it was like, I'm just gonna I'm cutting out all the nonsense is what I'm doing. So that's the way I looked at it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:35 Well, a lot of that is your fact finder number, by the way. Yeah. Okay. Because it's how you were gathering and sharing information. It was all about, you know, I was the same way in college, so I totally get that because I'm also in that middle zone.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:49 And I was like, I do not need all that detail. You cut through it, you find the essential facts enough to understand it, enough to answer questions. What I was talking about with that three and follow through is all about turning everything in on time. making sure that you had all of your papers in the right order.

Christine Morrow 00:30:09 I didn't have problems with organization.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:10 Okay, well, see? That's fantastic. Yeah, there are a lot of people that one, 2 or 3 and follow through. My son, for example. they did their homework. They didn't always turn it in, okay? Because it was done. It was done in their mind. So they were on to the next thing and and the actual finishing the loop piece of it. Of of turning it in was the thing that might fall through the cracks.

Christine Morrow 00:30:33 That's my son to a T where he'll do his homework and put it in his backpack and never turn it in. We're like, dude, all he had to do was turn it in.

Christine Morrow 00:30:39 That's all you had to do. But we did talk about like, some projects I like at home and stuff. I would have like, like, not like a bunch of unfinished projects. And so that that is something that, at least with the firm, we talked about this too, where, like, we I've surrounded myself with a bunch of people that helped close the loop. They do a really good job, all kind of to get this thing started, and then they'll kind of take it to the finish line, which is that's something I without even knowing it. That's something I've had to do because I had to kind of figure that part out.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:09 Exactly. And I know that you've been working on that bathroom for a while.

Christine Morrow 00:31:13 It's done. No, we got, we got, we got we have that thing done. And it was funny. Funny you say that because we. Amy and I started it after we have a couple of friends that came over for the Super Bowl. They paid a contractor to start on theirs.

Christine Morrow 00:31:27 they started before us. We started after we got ours done before the contractor, and we did way more work. So I'm actually pretty happy with our progress. We got it all done. It's I wouldn't say it's way nicer. I think it's nicer, but it's we did way more work. We put it into heated floors. We put a heated towel racks, tiled everything. It was a lot of work, but I was pretty happy with that. But part of that's probably because of Amy is I can't remember what her score is, but it's probably.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:55 She's A44, 74447.

Christine Morrow 00:31:58 Your memory is fantastic.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:00 I did my.

Christine Morrow 00:32:00 Homework. Well, so then I guess that doesn't explain it that way, because she's a little follow through through to as well.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:06 But she drove urgency though.

Christine Morrow 00:32:08 Yes she did.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:10 Her seven and quickstart needed to get it done now.

Christine Morrow 00:32:13 And not having our bathroom that that was a real pain of the butts.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:17 And there's that. Yes. Right.

Christine Morrow 00:32:19 It really drove us to get that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:20 You want to know what's really interesting about that is she's a foreign implementer and you're a six.

Christine Morrow 00:32:26 Yes.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:26 And that strength is all about remodeling and restoring and doing it with high quality. You mentioned needing the right tools. Yes, yes. Using, you know, not just any floor, but a heated floor. Heated towel racks. Let's do this. This. Let's use the best thing we can do. That's 100% that that longer yellow line was really in play there.

Christine Morrow 00:32:50 Well, we're talking about the fact finding that part was the struggle. Like finding the right pieces forever. Like was we wanted everything to be just right so I can't I we, I spent so much time researching things. And I know I'm not a super high fact finder, but it was still like we did a ton of freaking research on it. It was. So that part was understanding. That part of me is kind of interesting too.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:12 Well. So this is where the other two parts of the mind come in. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:16 Okay. You really cared about it.

Christine Morrow 00:33:17 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:18 You were motivated. You wanted it to be the best it could be.

Christine Morrow 00:33:22 Absolutely.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:23 And that's why you you went against your natural way of doing things and did all that extra research.

Christine Morrow 00:33:29 All right. So I want to shift gears again and let's talk about the book. So you gave me this book. You were very nice to give me an autograph book by David Colby and Amy Bruschi, and which is freaking awesome. Very excited about this. Tell me about this book, because you said it's do more, more naturally. And this is in a segue to you in a, in a second. So that's why I'm asking you about this. tell me about the book.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:51 So do more and more. Naturally is a book that has been in its infancy for years, and we finally got it done. a year and a half ago. Two years ago. Because we are tired of hearing from people. If I'd only known this before, if I had only known this about myself, if I'd only known this about my child, I would have made completely different choices.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:15 I would have gotten a different major. I would have gotten pursued a different career. I wouldn't have had that divorce. I wouldn't have had this terrible thing happen. You know? I wouldn't have had that heart attack, all of these terrible things that people tell us. And it just broke our hearts. I was like, how do we tell people? And everywhere you go in our world, there are books and gurus who are telling you to get more done, to get more done. Do this and do that, and you have to eat this way, and you have to follow this regimen, and you have to do it this way and use this management system to get more done. More and more and more and more and, and all that does is burn people out. It sounds exhausting.

Christine Morrow 00:34:58 Sorry.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:58 Bless you.

Christine Morrow 00:35:01 Well, I mean, it is exhausting, especially with, like, social media and, like, you know, everyone comparing themselves to each other. You just said something that I've not thought about.

Christine Morrow 00:35:10 you're talking about, like, the divorce part of it. Oh, yeah. Is there a test for spouses by chance?

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:19 So we have a report. So everybody takes a Colby a index. There's not a separate test for for spouses to take. Okay, so the Colby index and and we have a report called Takes two.

Christine Morrow 00:35:33 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:33 It will take two peoples, Colby results who are in a committed romantic relationship and talk to you about how can you improve the way you communicate with each other. How can you deal with financial decisions together in a way that honors the other person, but also yourself?

Christine Morrow 00:35:52 See, I'm not sure I knew about this. That's really.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:54 Surprising.

Christine Morrow 00:35:55 It's really interesting. I didn't know that this is awesome. because I could see I think it'd be a massive advantage to couples. I think it probably could lead to less divorces. that is really interesting. So the. Let's take my scores with Amy scores. So you would you would just say, okay, side by side.

Christine Morrow 00:36:19 and you specifically said romantic. So this is made for couples, for couples. And so you would kind of give you like a, like how to kind of deal with each other, I guess, uncertain, like for big things. What a brilliant idea.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:33 Well, thanks. Yeah. you know, it's certainly Kathy and David came up with this years ago, and we've revamped it to be a lot more modern. Sure. but it's it's really helpful for couples to get that understanding that your, your, your spouse is not doing that to drive you crazy. Your spouse is doing that because that's how they get things done. And even though you've told him over and over you don't like it, that's their way they get things done. And so a lot of times we take things personally and they're not personal.

Christine Morrow 00:37:05 Tell me this. Can you use this to find the right mate?

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:10 Not at this time. No, it would be. It would be something. Maybe down the road someday, we'll we'll partner with some kind of matchmaking service, but we aren't there yet.

Christine Morrow 00:37:21 Interesting. Because that could be really fascinating for anyone looking for a spouse. I'm good. I don't need I don't need that. Okay, so I asked you about this book. Yes, I didn't know. I didn't care much. Well, honestly, I didn't want to ask you about the book. There really one I want to ask you about is you're an author yourself. That's why I only ask you this question. Because I want to talk about you. And you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:41 Let me finish telling you.

Christine Morrow 00:37:42 About you more. More naturally. Okay? Okay. Keep going.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:45 Because I only said.

Christine Morrow 00:37:45 Half of it. It's part of the job. Okay? No. Okay. So just know that it's coming.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:49 I'm ready.

Christine Morrow 00:37:50 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:51 I'm ready. So doing more is something that we're all told we need to do. Yep. Okay. And the biggest problem in the workplace today. I think there's like a 6,570% burnout rate. And this is published by Harvard.

Christine Morrow 00:38:06 Yeah. That's. Yeah.

Christine Morrow 00:38:06 Okay. Not surprised by that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:07 It's astounding.

Christine Morrow 00:38:08 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:09 And and that burnout is a real psychological condition that has physiological symptoms. Okay. All right. It's a problem. And at Colby, our specialty is helping people do things more naturally. How to set yourself up for success and do things in a way that fits you. So that you are not stressed out, and so that you're able to do your best work and find this sweet spot where you're in this zone, in the flow state, if you will, and things are clicking for you and everything is, is, is working and getting things done feels effortless. But that can be taken too far too. Because then you can have somebody who set themselves up and they have enough people doing all the work around them, that they just do what comes natural and they aren't productive anymore, and they're not reaching any goals and they're not doing anything fulfilling. They're just kicking back. That's not helpful either. The key is finding that sweet spot in the middle, where you're able to get more done of the things that matter to you, but do it in a way that is more natural for you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:14 And that's where this book comes in, is all about how to take your Colby result and leverage it to help you get more done. That actually matters.

Christine Morrow 00:39:24 So what I find interesting about what you just said is, I think we all try to design our worlds so that things do become sort of effortless and that we can kind of kick back and things will be on autopilot. But what you're saying is we probably shouldn't do that. There should be a little bit more friction, friction introduced into our lives.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:45 Well, is it fulfilling to be on autopilot?

Christine Morrow 00:39:47 No, I and I get it completely. But I think that that's what we are designing for, for being unfulfilled. That's that's what I find interesting about this, is that we are intentionally designing for, for something that will ultimately lead to our own fulfillment.

Tyson Mutrux 00:40:03 Some people are, but then there are people who think that if they're not working hard, they're not worth anything. Yeah, they attach their self-worth, to the things that they're doing rather than who they are.

Christine Morrow 00:40:14 I think I'm probably guilty of that where, like, I, I take pride in some of, like, in the pain, this little pride, call it. I kind of take pride in that and that, like, working hard. I think that that is like an essential part of, like, success and all that. do I take. Am I taking that too far? Is that should I should I back?

Tyson Mutrux 00:40:33 I don't know. Are you.

Christine Morrow 00:40:38 No comment, no comment. Oh. That's interesting. I'll have to rethink that because I, I think I probably do, I probably do. I'm not a big fan of, like, the whole hustle culture kind of a thing. But I'm also I'm not naive to think that, like there like there is hard work that's required. And too often I think these days you see people on social media talking about, oh, make, you know, six figures working three hours a day kind of a thing. And that's I think that's overblown.

Christine Morrow 00:41:08 And they make it seem like, oh, you can do this without any, any hard work at all. Yeah. That's where I kind of come from. It's like, no, that's nonsense. Like that's I agree selling like okay, if you believe that. What? I've got some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona. Is that, is that so? That's where that's where my kind of mindset is. But. All right, I'm itching to ask you about the other. Are you done talking about this? Okay. and so and we can come back to this, but I do want to ask you about your books, because you're an author. I am, which that was something that I learned at the very end of our meeting. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And I did. I did a little Google search, and I found your books and everything. So to tell people, Tell the people about your books. How did you. How did you get in first? Like, how did you get into becoming an author?

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:51 So I am very passionate about everything that I do.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:56 If if I do it, then I'm not going to do it in a halfway manner. And I'm been administering my my whole life. So I'm a person that has a very deep, love for God and for for Jesus Christ. And so I have dedicated a big part of my life to ministry. And I actually was in professional ministry, working for different churches for the first half of my career. All right. So that's a piece of who I am and what really makes me tick. Yeah. that actually connects to Colby, so we can talk about that.

Christine Morrow 00:42:32 Well, yeah, that's. I kind of figured we'd go with kind of full circle.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:34 Yeah, absolutely. And so, about 20 years ago, I really had in my spirit to write a book about church unity. I have worked for like four different denominations and. Interesting, I know, so I have seen the different sides of different. Belief systems and I saw. Basically at the core of them they were all the same.

Christine Morrow 00:43:01 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:02 And I saw what unified them.

Christine Morrow 00:43:03 Not where I thought you were headed with that. So. Okay. Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:05 So I saw what unified them and and the reasons behind the, the things that they did. And, and I also knew all of their differences very intimately because I worked there. And so what I realized is at the heart of it was really what was the same. And I wrote a book about that called One Spirit, One Church, and it was based on a prayer that Jesus prayed right before he died that we would all be one as he and the father were one.

Christine Morrow 00:43:33 Very interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:33 And so I'm very passionate about working to help people in the church, to treat each other with respect and love and dignity, no matter what their denominational background is.

Christine Morrow 00:43:45 Do you think you could take a book like that and kind of overlay it on any sort of organization, whether it be a business or none, to kind of apply the same principles?

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:56 Yes, absolutely. Because when it comes to unity, the key is to be on the same page with your values.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:06 And if you're part of an organization and you agree on the values, then you can overcome the other differences with that agreement. If there is a disagreement on values, that is something that I that you can't always overcome.

Christine Morrow 00:44:21 Okay. And you're using the word unity. Now I think you could also maybe use the word culture.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:28 Yes, indeed.

Christine Morrow 00:44:29 Like so you can talk about firm culture. Company culture. So it really comes down to those, those founding principles or those founding values.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:40 Yeah. Absolutely. And talk about law firms. You know the law firms on TV. All right. All right. And that's that's my experience with law firms because I've never worked for one.

Christine Morrow 00:44:49 There's a lot of them around here. They're advertising. Yeah. Billboards all over the place.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:52 Right. So, so so, you know, I might not be a lawyer, but I played one on TV kind of thing. Right. So.

Christine Morrow 00:44:57 Exactly.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:58 You see different firms represented with this really cutthroat kind of, you know, dog eat dog kind of culture where you have attorneys trying to make partner and do all these different things, you know? That kind of culture is really toxic.

Tyson Mutrux 00:45:12 And it exists. It exists in all kinds of different, not just law firms, but all kinds of different companies. Yeah. And then you'll have other people who or other companies and firms who have a culture of, you know, know we are a family and we help each other and we care about each other. And and finding that that sweet spot where we're still moving forward, we're producing, we're helping our clients aggressively, but we're doing so in a way that builds each other up that that that would be a unified kind of culture.

Christine Morrow 00:45:43 Okay. So what matters more? The particular values that the organization has, or the fact that everyone is on the same page when it comes to the values.

Tyson Mutrux 00:45:58 Matters for what?

Christine Morrow 00:45:59 Okay, for culture, for having like a a to have unity. I guess it would be the.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:04 That you would be all on the same page, but you could be on the same page for evil or on the same page for good.

Christine Morrow 00:46:10 Right? And so it's coming up with, I would assume, if you're coming up, if your values are based upon doing good, and then you the next challenge then would be okay getting all of the same people on the same page.

Christine Morrow 00:46:26 When you're recruiting people. Are you are you recruiting people that have the same values already? Or when you when you bring people in, are you trying to get them to shift to adopting those same values? Hopefully that question makes.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:42 Yes.

Christine Morrow 00:46:42 And okay. Say more.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:44 So you were always going to look for people who are going to be aligned values wise. This goes back to one of the questions you asked earlier. The reason that that when I started working for the Google contractor, that I had to take a test on whether or not I would lie. Okay. Because they had this value at that time of do no harm. Yeah, right. And so they didn't want anybody that would lie to a client or to a coworker. Right. Okay. And so if we have a culture that's don't lie, then you would want to try to find somebody who didn't lie. And so you would check. Did they lie on their resume?

Christine Morrow 00:47:18 Sure.

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:19 You know, you would check. You would ask them questions about how they handled situations where they were asked to lie by a superior.

Christine Morrow 00:47:27 Oh, interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:27 I was asked that question when I was hired, actually.

Christine Morrow 00:47:30 Interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:31 Okay.

Christine Morrow 00:47:32 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:32 And and so you would be you would be put on the spot to ask questions to get you know what, what, what are your values, what matters to you and and how have how has that shown in actions that you've actually taken in the past? Not what you say you believe, but what have you actually done?

Christine Morrow 00:47:53 Okay. so something I will say we I wouldn't say we've struggled with it, but something that I've, I've had a, I guess an issue with is that the let's use the lying example. Okay. I can ask you if you're going to lie, right.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:12 And I can.

Christine Morrow 00:48:12 Say.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:12 Oh, of course.

Christine Morrow 00:48:13 Not. So how do you design questions that can get to the actual heart of the what you're trying to figure out without telling them, without forecasting it?

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:22 We actually have published some of this.

Christine Morrow 00:48:25 Okay, I didn't know this. So it's funny.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:28 Surprise.

Christine Morrow 00:48:28 This is great. Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:30 We have a whole hiring system, remember.

Christine Morrow 00:48:31 Yes.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:32 So we we have some different interview questions that we've published. And so some of the questions I can't tell you verbatim what they are, but one of the ways that you would get to that. Pardon me for a second. One of the ways that you would get to that is you would say, so think about a scenario in your past when you've worked for somebody and there was an inspector coming or something was going to happen and your boss said, oh my gosh, this is going to happen. If if you tell them this, then we're going to be in big, big trouble, maybe with the government, maybe with with a client, maybe with somebody else. And so I need you to just tell them this. How have you handled a situation? Tell me about a situation like that. And how did you handle it?

Christine Morrow 00:49:24 Okay, let's use that example because we have questions like that similar. and Sometimes they'll say, well, that's never really come up before.

Christine Morrow 00:49:33 I don't. I don't I've never really had that situation come up. How do you deal with something like that?

Tyson Mutrux 00:49:38 What would you do if I asked you to do XYZ and I.

Christine Morrow 00:49:43 Well, to me, that's going to be an obvious answer. I wouldn't do it like that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:49:47 Oh, would it though? So you can say, hey, so you're interviewing for the sales manager position, and, we had this one client who we couldn't lose because it's like one of our, our benchmark clients, and, and we're going to fix something, but we're not going to fix it until, like, next month. All right. And they need it done today. I need you to go to that client and say, we are working really hard to get this done for you by tomorrow. Okay, that's a lie.

Christine Morrow 00:50:21 That is a lie. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:22 Okay. What are you going to say?

Christine Morrow 00:50:24 Interesting. So that's. And so they're having to make their have to make.

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:30 On.

Christine Morrow 00:50:30 The spot.

Christine Morrow 00:50:30 Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right, I like that. That's really good. Okay. so you had to make sure that essentially you have the backup question holstered in a situation where they couldn't answer the first question. So you have to have that backup question ready to go. okay. I like that. I'm going to steal that one. That's a really good. That's a really good one. Okay. you kind of blew my mind a little bit with that one because I, I didn't know that you all had had those, those questions. Are those for sale or.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:03 They are for.

Christine Morrow 00:51:04 Sale. Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:04 They are not free. They're not available online either.

Christine Morrow 00:51:06 So you can't go find them, which you. I, I want to get this a little bit too, because, Colby's done a very good job of protecting its, its, trademark and then also a lot of its IP, which I think is really smart. which is I think it's you probably have really good legal counsel is probably the reason why.

Christine Morrow 00:51:25 But,

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:27 David Colby's a lawyer.

Christine Morrow 00:51:28 Though I did not know that. I did not know that. But I think that's part of the reason why you can't find a lot of the stuff online. Right? Like which is. Which is good. You've protected your IP. We have. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:39 And it's it's an interesting thing to deal with with, like, ChatGPT and all that because now ChatGPT doesn't really understand Canadian either.

Christine Morrow 00:51:48 Interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:49 So we're working on that.

Christine Morrow 00:51:50 In a world where, like, everything can basically be found through ChatGPT. I think it's I, I actually love this, that you can't actually get this information because it's like you, you all have worked hard to build it, to create it, to refine it. And then you have like some AI steal. It would be just terrible.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:12 We want AI to understand it, but it it hasn't gotten the differences and the nuances between the three parts of the mind yet. And that's the issue. Because if if I told you that it was bad that you weren't organized and you didn't do things in this way because successful people do that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:31 And so therefore you can't be successful. Which, by the way, AI can do right now.

Christine Morrow 00:52:36 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:36 Because they don't understand the difference between a three and follow through and a seven and follow through.

Christine Morrow 00:52:41 Right.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:41 And so we haven't protected our IP to keep it away from people. We've protected it to keep it correct and pure.

Christine Morrow 00:52:50 Which I think is important. I think it's really, really good. Are there. Is there anything. Is there such thing as, like a bad score? Colby. Score.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:58 No. What a great question. So every single part of your Colby result is a superpower, a strength, something that is amazing about you, that you bring to every table you come to if you care. And so when you are able to operate that way, then anybody that you're collaborating with is going to benefit from you understanding your strengths. For example, we keep talking about your three in follow through.

Christine Morrow 00:53:28 Good. Pick it on me. Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:29 No, but this is what you said.

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:31 You look at it as a superpower because you're able to cut through bureaucracy, you know, and you're dealing with the law that is bureaucracy.

Christine Morrow 00:53:40 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:40 Okay. All of the different ins and outs and you're like, well, let's just let's just cut through that and get to the bottom line and find find the, the the place where we can really be able to be successful. And you help your law firm do that. And you're now helping other law firms to do that. So that has become a superpower for you.

Christine Morrow 00:53:58 Yeah, I have I have found that it can be a little bit like Carrie brought it up during our training session about how, like sometimes whenever I would explain things, I would like give it way too simple of instructions. And sometimes I need to give a lot more detail because I look at it. This makes sense. You know, just give me the bullet points. This all makes sense whenever some people need a lot more context than what I give. So I I've got to I do know.

Christine Morrow 00:54:23 I know that about myself now where, like I said, I've got to make sure I'm giving more context to things so that, like me understanding it is the superpower. Now, now I've got to know how other people are going to interpret it, and they've got to get a little bit more context, which is which is pretty important. Yeah. What's the wildest score you've ever seen? Like does anyone ever come up with, like, all ones or all nines? Not possible. Okay. Because I, I was like, how like how does all that work? The interplay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:54:49 I know 7771 I'm A6772 which is very similar to that. Yeah. I know A32 ten two.

Christine Morrow 00:54:59 Oh, wow.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:01 Dan Sullivan.

Christine Morrow 00:55:02 Oh, Dan Sullivan's a ten.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:04 And quick start.

Christine Morrow 00:55:05 Yeah, I'm not surprised by that. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:08 Yeah.

Christine Morrow 00:55:08 Wow. What is what is, David Colby?

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:12 David Colby is an 82738273.

Christine Morrow 00:55:17 So he's a he's a he's on the the quickstart. So he's a high fact finder.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:22 And fact.

Christine Morrow 00:55:22 Finder. And a quick start.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:23 And a 7:00 start.

Christine Morrow 00:55:25 Yeah. That's interesting. Don't those. And maybe maybe I'm way wrong about this, I thought. Usually if you're at a quick start, you're you're high and a quick start you're gonna be lower on a fact finder.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:36 No they're not. They're not related to each other.

Christine Morrow 00:55:38 Interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:38 Yeah. So fact finder is all about information. Quick starts, all about risk and uncertainty. And and like I'm a seven and quick start and a seven and follow through. People I've had people say that to me. How can you. That's not possible.

Christine Morrow 00:55:50 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:51 And the thing is, is that because I'm A67, seven two, I have lots of ideas. I come up with all these different ways that I could approach something or, oh, let's try this or let's try that. But immediately my seven and follow through creates a plan for how to make that happen. And my six, in fact finder gets enough information that I can do it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:56:11 So and that's why I have published three books.

Christine Morrow 00:56:14 Was did that completely make sense?

Tyson Mutrux 00:56:16 I had the idea, I got enough information, I implemented a plan and I published it.

Christine Morrow 00:56:22 What? To me, that means I would want like a marketer to be like the same where those numbers are the follow through and the ideas are both high or does that would that make sense, do you think?

Tyson Mutrux 00:56:33 Maybe it depends on the kind of marketing that person needs to do.

Christine Morrow 00:56:37 Yeah. Have you all tracked what most authors are? It makes me wonder if they're the.

Tyson Mutrux 00:56:41 No, we have not. And I think it's going to be all over the map because it's going to it's going to be. What are they writing about? Are they writing fiction or nonfiction? Are they? Is it more fantasy or is it more historical? It all of these different pieces that come into different authors? in the old days?

Christine Morrow 00:57:01 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:02 Okay. An author didn't actually have to do a lot of the work for the publishing piece, because a publisher did that for them.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:08 Sure. All they had to do was write it. That's not really true these days.

Christine Morrow 00:57:12 Right.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:12 And so it just depends on on what kind of book and what the what the context is. You know, for me, I wrote my books and I published through a firm and, I did a lot of the work myself because I could and so I did.

Christine Morrow 00:57:31 It makes me wonder, like, have you ever published anything? Like by profession, what the scores are like on average.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:37 So we have published some trends.

Christine Morrow 00:57:41 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:42 All right. And so in one of Kathy's books called Pure Instinct. she did a lot of that kind of research. we had been working with a lot of different tech firms, SAP, Honeywell, Intel, Alaska Airlines. And so we were able to really do some really good work with research, and we had enough of a sample size to really do some things. And so we published some things, and we just released a whole research document for our 50th anniversary that looks at trends by job title.

Christine Morrow 00:58:18 Interesting. Okay, author, check that out. Anything, any glaring trend that kind of surprised you?

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:26 Not that surprised me. Yeah, they might surprise others.

Christine Morrow 00:58:28 Yeah. What? What do you think might surprise me or some other people? You think I don't put you on the spot?

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:35 I don't know you well enough to know what would surprise you. Yeah, I guess, in in, in the, in with different kinds of lawyers, we do see some different trends. So it just depends on like what field of.

Christine Morrow 00:58:48 Law.

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:48 You might be going into. But most lawyers have a long red line. Most, most people who make it through law school have a longer fact finder. Same with medicine. But there's a lot of doctors who don't. There's a lot of lawyers who don't.

Christine Morrow 00:59:03 Yeah, I like how you like you talk like the long red line. Like you like you like things like that. I think it does make it easier to understand. Or like a short blue line.

Christine Morrow 00:59:13 Like. Like the green line. So it's red. Blue. Green. Yellow. Is that right? Okay. are there certain scores that might might make for better positions? I know you said there's no such thing as a good score.

Tyson Mutrux 00:59:25 Absolutely.

Christine Morrow 00:59:26 Okay. So, like, if we're looking at, so our case managers are like paralegals. Okay. So a lot of our case managers are actually paralegals. So is there a certain score that might make sense for that position itself?

Tyson Mutrux 00:59:41 Yes. And so our hiring profiles work in such a way that you're able to identify actually pretty specifically what you need for that role using what we call the Colby C index. Okay. The Colby C index looks at from a supervisor's point of view. What does success look like in this role? If I had the very best case manager in the world, what are they going to do the most in the least. And then we're able to create a profile to hire to that is EEOC compliant? Okay. All right.

Tyson Mutrux 01:00:17 And this profile will identify a range of numbers that is most likely to be successful in your firm for that role. And I want to make sure you got you got that. Because what might be most successful in your firm for that role might not be the same for one of the other lawyers down the street. Yeah, because it might be a different kind of law. Maybe that lawyer is a person that requires everybody to be super detailed. Or maybe that lawyer is somebody who requires less detail, I don't know.

Christine Morrow 01:00:51 Well, not even like different practice area. Like the way they operate their business could be completely different.

Tyson Mutrux 01:00:56 And there it.

Christine Morrow 01:00:57 Is. Yeah, it could be like, one could be, like, really automated. 1st May not be very automated. That's right. So it, you may run your injury practice completely different from our injury practice. So 1st May be very litigation heavy. 1st May not be so. I mean, it makes complete sense. So is that. Who fills that out is the the employer fills out the the the Colby.

Tyson Mutrux 01:01:17 See, we usually have the direct supervisor and anybody else who might be what we call an evaluator for that role. so for example, in your office, you know, you have Amy, and I think it's Kristen that does most of the HR piece of everything.

Christine Morrow 01:01:33 Right, exactly.

Tyson Mutrux 01:01:34 All right. So what you would do is you would have both Amy and Kristen fill out a callback for that role. You might even want to fill out the Colby seat for that role. But you would have Amy probably or Kristen be what we would call the direct supervisor. And then we would look at those C's and we would create that range of success for that particular role.

Christine Morrow 01:01:54 Excellent. All right. And then have we talked have we talked about Colby yet? No. What does Colby be?

Tyson Mutrux 01:01:59 So the Colby is all about role alignment. So in our session that we did for you, we did this exercise where I had everybody print their name, and then I had them take the pen or pencil and put it into their opposite hand, their non-dominant hand, and print their name again.

Tyson Mutrux 01:02:15 Do you remember.

Christine Morrow 01:02:16 That? Yeah I do. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 01:02:17 Okay. It's a really physical exercise that helps people to understand what it means to do something that isn't natural to you. And so what the Colby index does is it helps to identify areas in your job that might be like that. And you answer questions about your perception and experience on your day to day work and the task that you perform to be successful in your own eyes about your own job. And we're able to look at a person's Colby A and Colby B index and diagnose those areas where maybe it's like they have to do tasks that are writing with their non-dominant hand. Maybe it's a little bit. Maybe it's a lot.

Christine Morrow 01:02:58 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 01:02:59 And then we can say, okay, there's some some areas here that we can, we can help you with because just because somebody Colby B index doesn't match their job doesn't mean that they shouldn't be there.

Christine Morrow 01:03:13 Can you give me an example of what that might look like? Sure.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:16 So, you know, maybe we have somebody like you, Tyson, who is a five, three, six, six, and we put you in the role of paralegal case manager.

Christine Morrow 01:03:27 Oh, okay.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:29 Did you ever have to do that?

Christine Morrow 01:03:30 No.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:31 Never had to pay those dues.

Christine Morrow 01:03:32 Nope. Okay. I mean, I've I mean, I've done it. I know firms.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:35 That make make their attorneys pay the.

Christine Morrow 01:03:37 Dues, but I've not. I mean, I've done every job in that firm, but I've not done it as, like, a case. So especially not working for me. So. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:44 Right. Definitely not right. So. But if we if you if somebody was wooed by your amazing personality and hired you for that job and you were crazy enough to apply for it. Right. Okay. It would be a terrible fit.

Christine Morrow 01:03:57 It'd be. It'd be terrible. Terrible fit. Yes, yes.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:59 Because somebody like that has to methodically research and document things.

Christine Morrow 01:04:07 Yep, lots of fun.

Tyson Mutrux 01:04:09 Can do.

Christine Morrow 01:04:09 That. Yeah, lots of follow through with it, right?

Tyson Mutrux 01:04:11 Yeah. You can do that. But if you have to do that for a long period of time, it will be exhausting.

Tyson Mutrux 01:04:17 And you would burn out eventually completely. Okay. So knowing that up front that sets you don't you don't hire that person. You don't apply for that kind of job. Now, we see a lot of times in family businesses that this does happen.

Christine Morrow 01:04:34 Oh, okay. Say more about that.

Tyson Mutrux 01:04:36 Because in a family business, you've been raised to take over for a certain person or a certain role in a firm, whether it's a law firm or an accounting firm or a financial services firm or some kind of firm or a plumbing company, it doesn't matter. You've been groomed and trained your whole life. You are expected to do this whether it fits you or not. And so you have somebody and they are not the right fit, at least not to do it the same way dad did. At least not to do it the same way that Uncle John did. But it doesn't mean that you can't approach it in a unique way. If you still want to be the one who runs that company.

Christine Morrow 01:05:18 Are kids okay.

Christine Morrow 01:05:20 So I have a silly question. Maybe. I'm guessing that these scores are not hereditary, so you can't pass a score on, but are our kids more likely to have the scores of their parents are less likely than the scores of their parents?

Tyson Mutrux 01:05:36 Neither. So it is not genetic. It's not something you inherit.

Christine Morrow 01:05:40 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 01:05:40 And we did studies to prove that.

Christine Morrow 01:05:42 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 01:05:43 Just FYI. And the study we did was with identical twins.

Christine Morrow 01:05:47 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 01:05:48 because. Fun fact, Kathy's husband, Will, is an identical twin, and David Colby has identical twins. And our VP of technology has identical twins.

Christine Morrow 01:06:01 Gosh. Wow.

Tyson Mutrux 01:06:02 Okay. Small company. That's very three sets of twins. Yeah. and so there's this gathering every year in twins ville where they all these identical twins and fraternal twins come and have, like, this big convention.

Christine Morrow 01:06:16 I bet they've been so studied to, by the way.

Tyson Mutrux 01:06:18 So they are used to being studied. And so we did a study with identical twins that had identical twins.

Tyson Mutrux 01:06:25 Take Colby indexes. And sure enough. Well, I don't know the exact percentage, so I don't want to misspeak, but I won't. I'm going to guess that it was less than 20% had similar or same Mo's.

Christine Morrow 01:06:36 Amy's dad is a as an identical twin.

Tyson Mutrux 01:06:38 So there you go. So it's not something that's genetic or these these, you know, these identical twins have the same DNA. They did not have the same instinctive MOS.

Christine Morrow 01:06:48 Well, are there any trends when it comes to kids and their, their parents, like, like one way or the other? No. All right. Are you born with these scores or is it something that is developed early on?

Tyson Mutrux 01:07:02 You are born with them. You don't develop them. They are instincts. So you're born with instincts. All all the different kinds you have the the different instincts that people have. Fight or flight? All of those. Right? Yeah. Those. Those are not something that you control. They aren't the same as these. These are striving instincts or the kinds of, you know, instinctive behaviors, problem solving instincts.

Tyson Mutrux 01:07:26 And you can observe these with infants and toddlers. And that's why as soon as children are old enough to self-report, we can't assess them.

Christine Morrow 01:07:37 Well, and I know you're using the word instincts, but I didn't know if it was like it was like it like kind of like implementer where I was like, well, maybe this is maybe this is just what they call it. And so it's you're you're talking about literal instincts, literal instincts.

Tyson Mutrux 01:07:50 So I'll use me as an example. I'm a seven and follow through, which means that I am systematic and I always have a plan and and I can look back and in some of the papers that I have from when I was in kindergarten, 5 or 6 years old, and I had checklists and outlines. Nobody had ever taught me what an outline was.

Christine Morrow 01:08:11 Interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 01:08:12 Nobody had ever taught me any of those things. I think that way. And I always have.

Christine Morrow 01:08:20 Okay. I know that you we talked about how if you take the test like the score, like the error rates very low.

Christine Morrow 01:08:27 And we talked about transitions. Okay. Is there anything like, could there be a serious change in a person's life that could alter their scores permanently?

Tyson Mutrux 01:08:39 We don't think so. We have seen that when there is a serious change in somebody's life, understanding their M.O. is the key to helping them. So let's talk about Kathy Colby. her first book, Cognitive Connection, was written right after she had a traumatic brain injury.

Christine Morrow 01:08:58 Oh, interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 01:08:59 Okay. So she had developed the Colby theory, and she had started writing the book and started working on it. She was appearing on CNN. She was she was working with the heavy hitters. She was traveling internationally, speaking at. She was one of the first females to ever speak at MDT. I mean, I and that's quite a story all by itself that I'm not going to tell. But she, she was she was a real go getter. And this is in the 70s and 80s. So and she was hit by a drunk driver and she had a very traumatic injury.

Tyson Mutrux 01:09:32 Her pelvis was broken and she was in the hospital, and she had to relearn to speak and to walk.

Christine Morrow 01:09:39 Wow.

Tyson Mutrux 01:09:40 And, and and she, you know, she had like, a genius IQ. All right. But she wasn't able to function. But she knew what her instincts were. And she used her instinctive strengths to overcome that and to do everything that she's done. There's a whole documentary about it you should try. You should check it out. It's called The Last Part of the mind. It's on YouTube, and it's fascinating to see how she overcame that and wrote several of the books and and ran for another 25, 30 years.

Christine Morrow 01:10:19 Wow. Okay. That's it. What was the name of that YouTube, the video again?

Tyson Mutrux 01:10:24 It's it's a documentary. It's called The Last Part of the mind.

Christine Morrow 01:10:27 The last part of the mind. Okay. Does. And I'm guessing I know the answer to this, but I want to ask you, does Colby score have anything to do with intellect? No, no.

Christine Morrow 01:10:40 is there any, any sort of, any consistencies or trends when it comes to intellect and the Colby score? No. Well, okay. Very good. All right. Let's start to wrap things up. Sure. We're getting close to time, but I want to make sure people, if they want to reach out to you or if they're interested in Colby, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Tyson Mutrux 01:11:02 They can just go to Colby Comm and contact us. Super easy.

Christine Morrow 01:11:05 Okay. What about if they want to talk to you specifically? What's the best way they can?

Tyson Mutrux 01:11:09 They can ask for that on the contact us or whatever they can call us.

Christine Morrow 01:11:12 There you.

Tyson Mutrux 01:11:12 Go. 60202. I don't know the number. 846028409770.

Christine Morrow 01:11:21 Or just go to the website or.

Tyson Mutrux 01:11:22 Just go.

Christine Morrow 01:11:23 To the website. We can put both of those in the show. That's very cool. I do wonder, like because Colby's been doing this for a while. is there anything on the horizon when it comes to Colby? That is something new that you could talk about?

Tyson Mutrux 01:11:36 Not that I can talk about.

Christine Morrow 01:11:37 Okay, but there are things coming.

Tyson Mutrux 01:11:39 Oh, absolutely. We are innovators. We are entrepreneurial. We are working hard to, really spread our our the knowledge of co nation all over the world. We have some pretty lofty goals. We want to get to 10 million people this decade. And and so we're really trying very hard to help people to learn more about Colby and to find out about themselves, because we believe that it can change your life. We believe that it can improve your life. And, you know, the world needs that desperately.

Christine Morrow 01:12:15 Last question I have for you. What's the most misunderstood thing about Colby that you wish people knew.

Tyson Mutrux 01:12:21 That it's they think it's a personality test and that it will change. You know, that it has to do with the things that you like or the circumstances that you took it. You answered the questions in, and it's just not like that at all.

Christine Morrow 01:12:35 Christine, thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed it. Every time I've encountered you, it's been great.

Christine Morrow 01:12:41 So I really appreciate it.

Tyson Mutrux 01:12:42 Well thank you. It was a pleasure to be here, and I and I look forward to getting to talk to you again in the future.

Christine Morrow 01:12:47 Absolutely.

Tyson Mutrux 01:12:48 All right.

Christine Morrow 01:12:50 Very cool.