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Life creates many in-between moments.
Whether those in-betweens create grief, sorrow, heartache, or pain, also know that joy, refinement, hope, and transformation are just around the corner.
Dinine Sig wants to accompany you in all of these in-between times–because she herself has seen many. The Space In-
Between is your opportunity to connect, refresh, and renew yourself. Dinine hosts conversations that will carry you through all of life’s significant moments–all of which will help you feel empowered, encouraged, and understood.
Remember, there is magic found in the in-betweens.
The Space In-Between Season 3 Episode 6 Transcript
[00:00:00] Dinine Sig: Hi, friends. I'm Dinine. I'm the host of this show, The Space in Between. I'm a mom, I'm an attorney, I'm an author, and I'm also a widow. We're gonna get into some really important stuff today, and I'm really grateful that you're here and you're gonna be sitting with us on The Space in Between. All right, so welcome friends.
Today we are in Broad Ripple at The Engine Room. Shout out Anthony, shout out Ryan. I'm so happy to be here. And, um, I'm excited about my guest today. Gretchen Schott is a leadership expert and executive coach with more than 30 years of experience helping leaders build confidence, trust, and impact. She's the founder of Leading Well, the chief learning officer at Threefold-
[00:00:54] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm
[00:00:55] Dinine Sig: and host of the Made for Impact podcast, and I think you're adding another- I am ... podcast, which we might get to.
[00:01:01] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:02] Dinine Sig: Gretchen is also a mom to three kids. She's passionate about creating joy at work, leading with love, and helping others grow. Outside of her work, Gretchen serves at her church in the marriage enrichment ministry, as well as volunteers in local theaters and productions, fueling her passion for the performing arts.
[00:01:22] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:23] Dinine Sig: Welcome, Gretchen.
[00:01:24] Gretchen Schott: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:26] Dinine Sig: I'm so glad you're here.
[00:01:27] Gretchen Schott: Me too.
[00:01:28] Dinine Sig: So your journey, uh, it blends professional success with deeply personal experiences.
[00:01:34] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:35] Dinine Sig: And when I think of that, I wonder what has shaped the way... how those personal experiences have shaped the way- The, the road that led you into this passion for leadership.
[00:01:50] Gretchen Schott: Mm.
[00:01:51] Dinine Sig: I know there's some later experiences that you wrote about, but is there anything that you think about that led you into that road where you really wanted to work with leaders for leaders?
[00:02:03] Gretchen Schott: Yeah. I think, you know, as a, as a young woman, I, I have, I have a very big personality. I have a lot of enthusiasm, and, um, I was always kind of put into those roles where it was, like, I just, I just started leading, and I was, I was always kind of put in charge, and, um, and I liked that.
And then I, you know, I went to school and I studied communications, and with communications there's this whole study on leadership, and learning about how to communicate with people well and how to lead them well just kind of, like, ignited a fire inside of me. And it was like thinking back to my younger...
I was like, "Oh, this is, this is why I was put in a leadership role. This is why I was given that opportunity." And, um, I just, I, I just love, I love leadership. Okay. I just, I love people that lead well. So it's something you were born to do. Yeah. I do. I just love it. That,
[00:02:48] Dinine Sig: that's really interesting. Um, you think most people start maybe at a, at a level where they're concerned about themselves as more of a, not a follower, but a member of a group.
[00:02:59] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:02:59] Dinine Sig: And then they might have developed that later, so that's an interesting way that you describe that. Thank you. Um, in the chapter that you wrote, Enjoy at Work- Mm-hmm ... obviously it starts, um, with a pretty significant story. You share about the devastating loss of your father to suicide.
[00:03:16] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:03:17] Dinine Sig: How did that experience and the way you were, quote, I'm using air quotes, "loved well"-
[00:03:24] Gretchen Schott: Mm
[00:03:24] Dinine Sig: um, and I don't mean to attack it. Yeah. I'm saying you were loved well, um, afterwards. How did that change your perspective on leadership and joy?
[00:03:35] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:03:35] Dinine Sig: So any part of that that you want to address, I wanna give you the floor.
[00:03:39] Gretchen Schott: Thank you. Yes. The, uh, um- I, I was so... Thank you for calling out that story too, 'cause I was nervous to even write about that.
When I was asked to be a part of the, the book, I wasn't gonna be writing about that. I had a whole 'nother thought around leader- leadership engagement. And then when my dad passed, I, um... It was just devastating. It's, it's the greatest sorrow and loss of my whole life. Um, my dad was that dad that was always so encouraging.
It's, um... He would've been the one who would've been the first person to call me when we wrote the book and be like, "Oh my gosh, you published," right? Um, and, uh, w- when he, when he passed, um, and so violently, he, um, he, he shot himself in front of his wife, which was just, um- I'm so
[00:04:26] Dinine Sig: sorry ...
[00:04:26] Gretchen Schott: so sad. And so, um, so not the man that I grew up with.
He just became really mentally unwell. And to spend time and space and try and really understand, like, why and for, for what purpose was this, um, I, I had always said I, I didn't wanna remember him by his death but by the life that he led before that, and it was really important for me to think about the good things and not just about how he chose to take his life.
And when I thought about the good things, it was always about, um, the leadership roles that he had, the, the role, the jobs that he had, the encouragement he had for us. Um, and for me specifically, um, he was always telling me, "You know, as a woman, you have so much to offer, and you're so smart, and you have to lean into this, into that."
And he really was the one that was, like, dropping stories of leadership into my life. And so having an opportunity to really process my grief by being able to write about it was just a beautiful gift. Um, but during that time, it was right after the holiday. It happened on January 2nd. And so, um, I had so many people reach out to us.
Um, I had people sending me, you know, "Can we bring you dinner?" Um, bringing us flowers, bringing us, um, prayers and praying for us. And, um, I think there was probably, like, eight people that actually, um, paid to have, like, a, a service just said for my dad. And so all those ways in which we just didn't realize that we just needed that kind of support, that's what I mean by we were loved so well.
Um, uh, I think the best things were, like, texts from friends that were like, "I'm thinking of you. Just, you're strong enough. This is terrible." You can do this. "It's okay to be mad. It's okay to be sad," right? And just to kinda... And not the, "What can I do?" And, you know, "What do you need?" Like, the what do y- I, I don't know what I n- I didn't know what I needed, right?
But what I needed is I just needed to be loved, and I was loved very well by friends and family and my coworkers. And really just holding space like this, like h- having someone sit here with me right now, and I continue to be loved well in that way. When people who knew my dad tell me a story or they see something that reminded me of my dad, like, that's just gold.
I, I will always be grateful for people that can tell me stories about my dad.
[00:06:37] Dinine Sig: I, I do Understand that, um, having lost my brother and my husband, neither by violent methods-
[00:06:45] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:06:45] Dinine Sig: so maybe a little difference there.
[00:06:47] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:06:48] Dinine Sig: But, um, love it when someone, still to this day, my brother's been dead 13 years, when someone reaches out and they're like, "Hey, I thought of this the other day."
Mm-hmm. "Me and John one time were riding bikes and-" Yes. Um, I just love it. It's, it's something so, I don't wanna say calming, soothing to the soul.
[00:07:07] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm. Um- It bring, it brings, like, peace into us- Yeah ... that somebody remembers them and, especially those things, like, we weren't a part of, right? Right. Like, they, they see a side of your brother that you're like, "Oh, that's right, he was like that."
[00:07:17] Dinine Sig: Yeah.
[00:07:17] Gretchen Schott: You know?
[00:07:18] Dinine Sig: And it's nice to be reminded of it.
[00:07:19] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:07:20] Dinine Sig: And, um, one thing I found really interesting about your dad and my brother was Dale Carnegie.
[00:07:27] Gretchen Schott: Oh, yeah.
[00:07:27] Dinine Sig: So my mom used to use the Dale Carnegie tape. She was a real estate agent. Oh. But my brother really adapted it in his own way-
[00:07:34] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:07:35] Dinine Sig: and just decided, sort of I think before manifesting became a word-
[00:07:40] Gretchen Schott: Mm
[00:07:40] Dinine Sig: that I'm going to have this. Yes. I'm going to have this. Yes. And he would get those things. Mm-hmm. And, um, he would amaze all of us, his friends and family- Yes ... 'cause John decided John's gonna get it.
[00:07:52] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:53] Dinine Sig: So your dad sort of inspiring you with the Dale Carnegie tapes- ... I think is, like, I don't know your dad, I didn't know him.
Mm-hmm. But I can kind of picture his spirit. Mm-hmm. And I think that's probably something that also led you into this leadership-
[00:08:08] Gretchen Schott: Oh, for
[00:08:08] Dinine Sig: sure ... sort of loving leadership and loving, inspiring leader. So- Mm-hmm ... I just wanted to add that. I- I
[00:08:13] Gretchen Schott: love that. Yeah. That's fun.
[00:08:14] Dinine Sig: Just something I picked up from- Mm-hmm ... um, the chapter.
So in your chapter Joy at Work, you write that, "Joy isn't something to be found. It is something to be created."
[00:08:28] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:28] Dinine Sig: How do you create joy for yourself when life feels heavy?
[00:08:31] Gretchen Schott: Mm.
[00:08:32] Dinine Sig: Maybe outside of work.
[00:08:33] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:08:34] Dinine Sig: Um- Or in work.
[00:08:36] Gretchen Schott: Yeah. I, I think both. I, I, I think that there's so many people that feel like they're sad and they're mad and they're upset because they don't have joy.
Mm, but they aren't doing anything to actually cultivate that within themselves, right? We can't expect others to feel joyful if we aren't ourselves joyful. Um, and I, I think it starts with knowing yourself and loving yourself. Um, that's how, that's how we cultivate the joy. If we don't know ourselves, we can't know other people.
If we don't love ourselves, we can't really love other people. And in that gap of not loving ourself and not knowing ourself, we're not gonna suddenly find joy there either. So I, uh, my, like, first things are do some self-care, right? Like, get comfortable with who you are. Maybe that's going for a walk. Maybe that's taking a bath with some bubbles.
You know, maybe it's a silent retreat, whatever that might be. But-
[00:09:28] Dinine Sig: So that leads me into my next question, which I think you're already answering also. So because the show is called The Space In Between-
[00:09:35] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:09:36] Dinine Sig: I imagine you found yourself at times with a life situation or a ... You mentioned at one point when they were trying to transition you out of your job.
[00:09:44] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:09:44] Dinine Sig: Um, or anything else. I don't, it, I don't wanna define it for you, but, um, maybe even your volunteer work, where you were- Trying to lean on something to get through this space in between. So you were happy at your job.
[00:10:00] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:01] Dinine Sig: And then they were bought. The company was bought.
[00:10:03] Gretchen Schott: Yep.
[00:10:03] Dinine Sig: I imagine that was an in-between space because at one point you have a title, you're connected to that title with the work, and they're like, "Hey, we don't need you to do that anymore."
We don't
[00:10:12] Gretchen Schott: want that anymore.
[00:10:12] Dinine Sig: So, but you're still at that job- Mm-hmm ... even though it's being phased out. It's kind of like, I imagine, I've never been divorced, but, um, a husband or wife coming home and saying, "I don't wanna be married."
[00:10:23] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:24] Dinine Sig: So you're still married, but you- You're there ... you know you're not about to be, and it's going to be a really bad, unwanted change for the person that receives that news.
Most likely they weren't thinking. Same thing with a job. So when you think about you were sort of starting to go there, I think. You're like, when you're trying to muster up the joy- Yeah ... you're in that space in between.
[00:10:45] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:45] Dinine Sig: Do you think bubble baths and scent? 'Cause sometimes that works for me. Mm-hmm.
Sometimes it doesn't. Is there anything else that you've ever turned to that was different or novel to get you through when you're trying to maintain positivity? And I don't know how easy it is to maintain joy when they're about to take the job that you love.
[00:11:04] Gretchen Schott: Yeah. Well, I think it, it has to start from a practice of gratitude.
It's... We, we have to be grateful. We have to be, um, humble enough to recognize when our pride and our ego is getting in the way, and sometimes the reason our joy is sapped is because of pride and our own egos. Um, I think especially a lot more so maybe at work. Um, that was mine. Now you've taken it away.
What do you mean you're changing my title? What do you mean you're taking my team? What are... All those types of things. And, and I don't know if it's necessarily unique or, um, special, but I think focusing on what, what are we grateful for, right? If I'm, I'm grateful that I have a job. I'm grateful that I get to...
I have a job that I love so much, that I can actually be upset that it's being taken away from me, right? Right. 'Cause I know now what I w- I know what that looks like, so now I have a place to start from, right? Yeah. Um, or I, um, I'm grateful that I've worked for a company that is so profitable and wonderful that another company loves it so much they want it to be part of theirs, and how lucky that I get to be a part of this.
I don't love the decisions that are being made right now, but I can be grateful for the fact that I've had a small part of this journey, and now I get to rediscover something else in myself. Or being grateful for the people that you work with. Like, sometimes we, we sometimes have to dig a little bit into that gratitude to fig- figure out what it is that we wanna be grateful for, what we wanna recognize as being grateful for.
Um, but I- That's- ... I think in not recognizing it, then we are actually leading to a life very unsatisfied and full of pride
[00:12:28] Dinine Sig: I, um, I agree, and I think that that could apply to a wealth of situations- Mm-hmm ... that a person might find themselves in. Um, I went through a pretty painful trauma about two and a half years ago, and I had to dig.
You used the word dig. There were days I had to dig.
[00:12:46] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:47] Dinine Sig: And I remember one day just starting with a cardinal outside.
[00:12:51] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:51] Dinine Sig: Um, it was winter, so there was a cardinal, and then switching to my dog that I love every day- Yeah ... the same way I love my kids, but I didn't Sort of list it. Like- Yeah ... I love this dog.
My kids are both at school, but this dog is here with me.
[00:13:08] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:09] Dinine Sig: And I'm lucky. I have the ability to take care of a dog, and I have a dog that loves me, and-
[00:13:14] Gretchen Schott: Yeah ...
[00:13:15] Dinine Sig: I have a cardinal outside. When I lived in New York City, I never saw a cardinal. Yeah. I had to go out to Long Island or upstate. But in my house here in Indy, I have a cardinal outside, and it comes every day.
So it was this digging- Mm-hmm ... that I sort of related to in what you were just saying now. So I just wanted to say- Yeah ... I think that could apply. Um, thank you for that.
[00:13:36] Gretchen Schott: I think, I think we also diminish how important some of those small things are. Like, someone listening to this might be like, "Oh, yeah, right.
Like, if I go take a bubble bath, that's gonna make me feel better," or, "Right, I'm gonna go look outside, and that's gonna make me feel better." But we need to not judge that. If, if that is all you have to be happy and grateful for in that moment, that's enough, 'cause without hope and without any kind of focus on I want to have joy, I want to be hopeful, then, then the world's already lost-
[00:14:02] Dinine Sig: I-
in my opinion. And I, I would say this to my sister repeatedly about my dad, 'cause he went through a loneliness bout as a senior- Mm-hmm ... about two years ago.
[00:14:12] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:14:12] Dinine Sig: And I kept saying to her, "Without hope, he has nothing." Nothing. He has, in the end, this intense hope to get back with my mom.
[00:14:20] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:21] Dinine Sig: That's still not there, but, um, but they have a solid friendship.
They've been divorced for decades, but- Yeah ... there's always been this love, I think, and this desire to get back with her. And I just kept saying to my sister, "Why kill it?" Like, this is what gives him hope. Yeah. And now his wife had died and... So anyway, I'm with you. You said words right out of my brain- ... which were, without hope, the world is lost.
Yes,
[00:14:43] Gretchen Schott: yes.
[00:14:44] Dinine Sig: And one of my favorite poems is Langston Hughes.
[00:14:46] Gretchen Schott: Mm.
[00:14:47] Dinine Sig: And, um, you know, "If dreams die, life is a frozen barren field of snow."
[00:14:52] Gretchen Schott: Yes.
[00:14:53] Dinine Sig: There's nothing that... So anyway, okay. So we're, we're on the same page- I love it ... with that. Yeah. Um, thank you. So you've had a, and you make a powerful distinction between leadership on influence or as influence and management as authority.
[00:15:11] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:12] Dinine Sig: This struck me.
[00:15:14] Gretchen Schott: Mm.
[00:15:14] Dinine Sig: Um, you mention that when you read an article from Joseph Rost detailing this view, it, quote, "Blew your mind." It
[00:15:23] Gretchen Schott: did.
[00:15:23] Dinine Sig: And it startled me to read it, 'cause I was like, "What does she mean?" I took a minute. But can you share what really stands out to you at that time and now concerning this way of thinking?
[00:15:38] Gretchen Schott: Yeah,
[00:15:38] Dinine Sig: I- When you think about that, 'cause it did blow your mind, and mine a little bit.
[00:15:41] Gretchen Schott: I love that, 'cause, and anyone who hasn't read Joseph Rost's work, you need to read it because it's, it, it was like, what? And I think for me, it stemmed from the i- Like, I firmly believe that everyone is a leader. Everyone is a leader.
You can lead in your home. You can lead in your community. You can lead at work But what does, what does that really look like? And so when I, I think about in years before now, when I would talk about training and workshops and leadership and it was really about management and about the different roles a manager has with h- which is related to h- the authority that they have.
They are, they have a team they are responsible for and, and the tactical and maybe strategic things they're trying to do there. You can be a manager And not be a leader. You can be a manager 'cause you have a figurehead, a title, but leadership, leadership is about that influence that you have, and you don't have to have the title to have influence and to have people follow you, and to have people motivated and inspired by you.
I think people who are managers aspire to be leaders, but you don't have to be a manager to be a leader, and I think that there's been many, many, many, many, many, many years of research that's talked about management and leadership, and we just, we keep them locked up as the same, and they're not. And I think it's, um, especially in, I think in our culture today where there are so many people that don't want to necessarily be responsible for other people.
They are entrepreneurial, and they wanna be these solopreneurs, and so are they, are they not a leader because they don't have a team and so they're not managing people? Um, I just, it... For me, it was like, I, I need to focus more not on how good of a manager I am and all the authority that I would carry, but what is my influence?
Like, like how am I influencing people? What is the influence I have? What's my span of control? Um, what am I taking ownership of? That, to me, is, is the heart of, of what we're talking about when we talk about influence and leadership.
[00:17:38] Dinine Sig: Influence. Yeah. When you talk about influence.
[00:17:40] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:17:40] Dinine Sig: I think also of people, um, just out in the world where for some apparent reason we wanna hear what they think of something.
[00:17:49] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:50] Dinine Sig: That's influence.
[00:17:51] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:17:51] Dinine Sig: They may not be the lead- They may be an actor. They may be a ballplayer. They may be, um, s- you know, someone who works in animal rescue. Yeah. But we wanna hear what they think about something because there's something about their personal style that we find inspiring.
[00:18:06] Gretchen Schott: Right.
[00:18:06] Dinine Sig: And I think that's what you're talking about a little bit, the influence someone has-
[00:18:10] Gretchen Schott: Yeah ...
[00:18:11] Dinine Sig: to influence their team or the people around them.
[00:18:13] Gretchen Schott: Well, a- and I, I, you know, I, I donate, um, a lot of my time. I work at church, and when I talk with, like, stay-at-home moms who would never believe that they are a leader, like, "Ugh, I'm not a leader," um, yes.
Yes, you are a leader. You are leading your home. I, I have one girlfriend. I'm like, "You are the CEO of your family."
[00:18:31] Dinine Sig: Absolutely.
[00:18:32] Gretchen Schott: Right? You're the chief everything officer there. Yeah. And that, that is leadership. That is leading. Um, and so we just... I think we get too hung up on the whole management piece, and we are, we are really leading.
[00:18:44] Dinine Sig: I think, um, before my husband got really sick and died, um, I, I had a babysitter that helped me, and my girlfriend also did. Mm-hmm. So one day we were meeting at Central Park. Our kids were with our babysitters.
[00:18:57] Gretchen Schott: Yep.
[00:18:58] Dinine Sig: When my kids saw me, they were much younger, they literally ran, "Mommy's here. Mommy's..."
Screaming. Her son kind of sauntered over. And I remember later on that night she called me.
[00:19:09] Gretchen Schott: Mm.
[00:19:09] Dinine Sig: And she had way more materialistic resources than I did, um, a- an apartment on Central Park West, which was why- Okay ... we were meeting up there. And she was like, "It's so mind-blowing. I don't-
[00:19:22] Gretchen Schott: Mm ...
[00:19:22] Dinine Sig: I can't even handle that your kids see you and they act like a rock star just showed up."
[00:19:27] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:19:28] Dinine Sig: And I was, like, so thrilled, not to upset her-
[00:19:31] Gretchen Schott: Right ...
[00:19:31] Dinine Sig: but I was like, "I hope I always..." And I don't now. They're older. But I'm like, "I hope my kids always look at me like that." Mm,
[00:19:38] Gretchen Schott: I'm sure they do.
[00:19:38] Dinine Sig: Um, not in the sa- You know, they- Yeah ... they were literally running to me, and, um, I remember telling, as my husband was getting sicker, telling certain people that were involved with my kids, whether it was coaches, teachers, um, admissions for the next school, I was like, "If they haven't told me about it, it hasn't happened yet."
Right. And they're... So even if something happens today at school, it ha- it isn't real for them until they tell me.
[00:20:06] Gretchen Schott: It don't, mm-hmm.
[00:20:06] Dinine Sig: And I no longer carry that influence. It's just, I think, part of-
[00:20:10] Gretchen Schott: Them
[00:20:11] Dinine Sig: growing up ... I guess, them getting older. Yeah. I no, I no longer have that influence. I do think bigger things-
[00:20:16] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm
[00:20:16] Dinine Sig: they still wanna run it by me or have me-
[00:20:19] Gretchen Schott: Discuss it.
[00:20:19] Dinine Sig: Yeah. Yeah. But, but that's when I think of influence in that way, as moms. Mm. And I'm so glad that you reminded some of those women-
[00:20:27] Gretchen Schott: Yeah ...
[00:20:27] Dinine Sig: that, hey, you have this. You
[00:20:29] Gretchen Schott: do,
[00:20:29] Dinine Sig: for sure. So I like that. Um- So you've been in workplaces that filled you with joy and others that drained you.
[00:20:39] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:40] Dinine Sig: I know you have some exercises that could help someone move forward, and we'll get into those in just a moment. Mm. So I know you ha- And I've read them- Mm ... and I'm excited about them. But what signs should someone look for before they get to those exercises to know they have to do them?
[00:20:58] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:59] Dinine Sig: That it might be time to move on.
And could this be, and I already think I know the answer, could this be applied to other areas of someone's life?
[00:21:08] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:09] Dinine Sig: So we're not talking yet about the fantastic exercises- ... that you've listed. We're talking about-
[00:21:15] Gretchen Schott: Like the triggers,
[00:21:15] Dinine Sig: the signs ... the self-assessment maybe- Yeah ... or a trigger or whatever you call...
'Cause maybe your exercises are a self-assessment. But where does one get to that place where they're like, "I, I need to look around." Yeah. "What are the s-..." I have a few signs that I know of-
[00:21:29] Gretchen Schott: Yeah ...
[00:21:30] Dinine Sig: for either work, friendship, or love.
[00:21:32] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:32] Dinine Sig: But what do you think are some telltale signs we could give to listeners right now who might be like, "Okay, I don't know, like- Mm-hmm
maybe I'm, I thought I was kinda happy at work, but-" But
[00:21:43] Gretchen Schott: maybe I'm not.
[00:21:44] Dinine Sig: Yeah. Yeah. Or something, where they're just maybe zoning out and they're not really seeing that they're not okay.
[00:21:48] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:21:48] Dinine Sig: Do you have any tell-
[00:21:50] Gretchen Schott: I think there's a couple things I would, I would say to pay attention to. And I can speak to, you know, and, and I write about it in the book, an experience I had when the company that I was working for got bought.
W- I realized I was not my best self anymore. Like, when, when people around me were getting accolades and getting recognized, and I started to feel resentful and ugly about it, and that, that I couldn't be excited and encouraging, that for me was a fir- It's like, whoa. Like- That's not me. I, I am a person that is always encouraging.
Positivity is actually one of my top five strengths, so when I'm not feeling like I can be in a space with you and appreciate and be excited for you, that- that's one place. It's like, okay, so if you're feeling that way at work, like things are happening to other people and you're in this place of lack or, or absence of like a when's it gonna happen for me, th- that right there is like, that, that causes you to pause and say, "Why do I feel that way?"
Right? Um, I think the same thing in relationships. If you're in a relationship with somebody, you have a friend with somebody, and every time you're with them you feel less energy than you did when you first sat down with them, that's a good sign that maybe you're not getting out of that relationship anymore what you need, or maybe that relationship has changed and you've grown and that person maybe hasn't grown with you.
And so, you don't necessarily have to continue to give them the same level of engagement, the same level of energy, because it's not serving you anymore. That doesn't mean just cut 'em off and like, "You're out of my life," but it might not be serving you in the same way. Your job might not be serving you in the same way.
The company might not be serving you in the same way. Those are all okay things. But just be honest about it.
[00:23:27] Dinine Sig: I definitely, I definitely think you hit something there for me again.
[00:23:30] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:23:30] Dinine Sig: Which is interesting- ... 'cause I didn't have this written down. But, um, you just said something before about when you're no longer able to be joyful for someone- Mm-hmm
and have resentment. When my husband first got sick, it didn't hit me, but about two years in, and he was sick for about nine years- Mm ... it was very long.
[00:23:49] Gretchen Schott: Long
[00:23:49] Dinine Sig: time. And drawn out. Yeah. And it wasn't a cancer, it was a neurological disease. Oh. And there isn't a lot of support. I think when you first get a cancer diagnosis, everybody wants to jump in and help.
[00:24:01] Gretchen Schott: There was- And give resources.
[00:24:02] Dinine Sig: There was none of that. Yeah. It was like, "Sorry, he's just gonna die." Like, they d- they didn't co- I know it sounds so... I'm sure my husband's even laughing if he's listening. But really, that's what we were told, like- Yeah ... by the doctors, in essence. Mm. They didn't say it. They have a very, um, scholarly, erudite way of telling you- Of
[00:24:18] Gretchen Schott: course
[00:24:18] Dinine Sig: "He's just gonna die." Yes. "There is nothing better than the way he is today." But I started getting in- Insanely resentful-
[00:24:27] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:24:27] Dinine Sig: of just walking in New York City, seeing a man and a woman walk together with two kids.
[00:24:32] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:24:33] Dinine Sig: And I was like, "Why does she get a healthy husband?" Yeah. It didn't even matter, like all of- But you didn't
[00:24:36] Gretchen Schott: know them or
[00:24:37] Dinine Sig: anything, yeah
like all of my requirements for what I would want in a man-
[00:24:40] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:24:41] Dinine Sig: he would fit maybe none of them. For sure. And I'd still be like, "Why does she- How come? Right. Why does she get that? And I noticed that I was just getting so resentful.
[00:24:49] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:24:49] Dinine Sig: I was resentful of my friends. They would be like-
[00:24:51] Gretchen Schott: Yes ... "
[00:24:51] Dinine Sig: Oh, uh, my friend McCaslin, you know, Blake is getting our Christmas stuff down from the attic today."
And I'd be like-
[00:24:57] Gretchen Schott: Great. ...
[00:24:57] Dinine Sig: that, yeah, that makes me angry. Like, I'll be lucky if I get, like, a little tree, but you know, 'cause I was taking care- Are they
[00:25:02] Gretchen Schott: sending them to my house next? Because I don't- Yeah. Yes.
[00:25:04] Dinine Sig: Well, she was in Oklahoma, so she wouldn't. So, no. But at the same time it was like, I was just jealous of that normalcy.
Mm-hmm. Your husband, over Thanksgiving weekend, is gonna get everything ready for Christmas. He's gonna help you do that physical, that physicality. Yeah. Whereas I was doing, at that point, everything physically for all three of them. Yeah. My two kids and my husband. So much. So that resentment, I think, is a key, guys, if you're listening, not just what Gretchen s- not ju- no, more of what Gretchen said.
Yeah. Not just at work, but, like, in what I'm talking about in personal, um, times where I would never look at a couple and ever have- Any comparison ... resentment. Yeah. But then it, it became, um, if you're at work and you're feeling that, it leads us into our next section of Gretchen's chapter, which we will be including some of these resources in the show notes.
One of the exercises that Gretchen shares is called the highlight reel.
[00:25:56] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:57] Dinine Sig: Um, I remember at one point hearing a psychiatrist talk after my brother died, and he said, "There's a file cabinet in your mind." Mm.
[00:26:06] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:07] Dinine Sig: And you don't... And I remember sharing this with my mom, and he was like, "You don't have to go into that file cabinet and pull out the day," it wasn't about my brother, but somebody else.
Yeah. "The day that person died."
[00:26:19] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:26:19] Dinine Sig: You don't have to pull out the six months after it where you felt like garbage. Mm-hmm. You can go into that file cabinet and pull out the day that you first rode a bike.
[00:26:28] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:26:28] Dinine Sig: Or the day that someone you loved first kissed you. You can go in that file cabinet and pull out anything.
[00:26:35] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:26:35] Dinine Sig: And I really think this sort of goes in line with what you're saying. So you talk about the highlight reel- Mm-hmm ... which is a different, right, file cabinet in your mind. Yeah. Um, can you walk us through how that works and why it's such a powerful way to reconnect with what lights us up?
[00:26:53] Gretchen Schott: Yeah. I, um, the highlight...
I, I love the file cab- that's a great metaphor. Highlight reel for me came from, I love movies, I love TV, I love the theater, and so I was thinking of- How can I help my coaching clients kind of reflect on their life and tell, h-how do you tell your story? And so let's tell a story through the reel of your life.
Um, and I would also say with this exercise, it goes back to that knowing yourself and loving yourself. So getting int- getting an opportunity to really do some deep work on what we know about ourselves, but then also seeking support, seeking connection with other people to affirm that what you see and know about yourself.
Because I think that sometimes when we're doing this kind of deep work and we're not able to see ourselves really clearly, we have to start with some kind of point of view. Um, but connecting with people who love us and support us to kind of share that back is actually what helps us get that into our brains as that's who we are, that's who, that's who I want to be.
Um, and what I have found out when I've done this exercise with clients, and they've gone and asked people about like, um, ha-having them like talk through like these are my three to five things that I felt the most proud about, the most, um, encouraged by them, the time I felt the most supported, the most whatever.
And then they share that, then they get new stories and like, "Oh, I didn't see myself that way, but you see me that way. You've given me words now." I rem-- for me personally, I remember doing something like this with a colleague. I was doing my own highlight reel. And, um, she said to me, "One of the things that I love about you is that you're direct."
And I was like, "Really?" Direct was never a word I would have ever used to describe myself. I would never have claimed that word. But when she said that, that like i- I felt like it was like someone hitting like a gong. It was like gong, like inside me. And I, I realized that I am direct, and I, I am lovingly direct.
I used to think about that as like a, a negative kinda thing, but she was talking to me about it as, "That's what I love about you because you're direct. I know exactly what I'm gonna get from you, and you're gonna, you're gonna say it. I might not like it, but you're gonna be right, and I love that about you."
[00:28:58] Dinine Sig: It's just something she really appreciated in you.
[00:29:00] Gretchen Schott: And now- Yeah ... and now I, I claim that, and, and that is now something that I do use to describe myself. And so, you know, having this opportunity to kinda go through your life and what you're proud of and have other people affirm it just kind of grounds us in finding that joy within ourse-
[00:29:16] Dinine Sig: inside ourselves.
Yeah. So. I really appreciate that. Thank you.
So you also talk about cleaning the windshield- Yeah ... which I think is a great euphemism- ... for how I envision this going on. Yes. How does that help leaders or anyone clear away the mental clutter and make better decisions?
[00:29:37] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:29:37] Dinine Sig: So, like, if you can-
[00:29:39] Gretchen Schott: Talk about that one a little bit? Yeah,
[00:29:40] Dinine Sig: a little
[00:29:40] Gretchen Schott: bit. So I have so many leaders that I work with and that I coach that get overwhelmed about all the priorities and all the things, and I, for, for me, I'm one of those people who always has the windshield that's probably needs to get replaced, right?
So it's just a little smudgy.
[00:29:53] Dinine Sig: Yeah. Mine
[00:29:53] Gretchen Schott: too. Um, and I, I, I love-
[00:29:55] Dinine Sig: And it is so much better the day that you- Get a new ... take the thing on the outside, what do they call that, a squeegee at a gas station? Yes. Or you finally maybe get- Replace it ... your- Yes ... your, uh, your window washer thing, but you'll hit it, like, 10 times in a row so it really does.
[00:30:09] Gretchen Schott: Yes.
[00:30:09] Dinine Sig: I know what you're saying, that sort of ah.
[00:30:11] Gretchen Schott: Ah. It's like, oh, I can see things clearly now. Yeah. Right? And so it's that same kind of metaphor where we have... We, we, we're in this stuck of overwhelm. We're in this place of anxiety, and so let's... It's really about let's get clear and focused on what's within our control and what, what do we need to be spending our time and our energy on.
So I just have someone write down, like, what are all the things, like the projects that are most taxing to you, right? Like, just put them in different columns, and then with that-
[00:30:35] Dinine Sig: The most taxing?
[00:30:36] Gretchen Schott: The most taxing. Okay. Like, the y- you're feeling the most stress around. Um, it might be the thing, like, you don't even know how to do, but it's on your plate, or it might be the thing that you're...
on your plate and you hate doing it, and it's just taking lots of time 'cause you hate it. W- oh, whatever those things are. The thing that's keeping you up or the thing that's making you feel ugh, right? You're writing that down. And then who do you have to, um, report to? Like, what, how many people, what different departments are you, um, connected to as a result of that?
Who, who are you trying to influence? Who are your stakeholders here? And then go through that list and say, "Okay, so out of all these things, what about these projects actually brings me joy? What, what is work that I love to do that gets me excited? If I'm doing this all day long, like, I could do this project.
If it was only this thing, then I would do this all day long." And then-
[00:31:20] Dinine Sig: Okay ...
[00:31:21] Gretchen Schott: which one of those things are you just like, "I absolutely hate doing this. This is sucking my soul"? And then looking at that list of the things that suck your soul, and ask yourself, like, "Is this something that I really need to do, or is this something that I can delegate?
Is this something that I can pass off to someone else? Um, am I creating a sense of perfection that isn't needed here?" Like, am I trying to perfect the present on something that's, uh, just fine and good is good enough? Um, and then setting up goals and priorities around what are you gonna tackle today with regards to moving those things that suck your soul, either just dial in what needs to be done or what can be given away.
And with the things that bring you joy, like how can I do more of that? How can I, how can I spend more of my time doing that? And when doing that, you c- you feel clearer, because you have a new sense of purpose.
[00:32:09] Dinine Sig: And I think that can relate to moms, too.
[00:32:11] Gretchen Schott: Oh my gosh,
[00:32:12] Dinine Sig: yeah. Or people who maybe don't have kids, but they have a parent they're taking care of- Mm-hmm
or obligations. I think there's many ways. I remember, uh, again, y- a c- few years into my husband's illness, I would just wake up instantly with a sense of dread.
[00:32:28] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:28] Dinine Sig: Because I knew every day was going to be worse than the day before, but it was never gonna end until a really bad day, which was he dies.
[00:32:36] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:32:36] Dinine Sig: There was no treatment, no cure, no medicines, no nothing. Mm. So s- I remember starting to sort of lose my mental priority and my focus. Yeah. And I would wake up and just be like, "This sucks. Oh my God." But then I started telling myself, "Just come up with something else to say-
[00:32:53] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:32:53] Dinine Sig: to try to declutter a little bit."
Because when you're just overwhelmed with everybody needs-
[00:32:59] Gretchen Schott: Everything ...
[00:32:59] Dinine Sig: this, this one needs their jersey, my husband needs me to go, the doctors were asking me to give them this paperwork- Yep ... um, somebody wants that, my in-laws are calling and wanting me to do certain things for them. Mm-hmm. So it was like I would just start a mantra- Mm
which is a little different than what you're saying, but it was enough for me to kind of- Force my brain to not be so overwhelmed with the smudgy windshield. Yeah. Like, I would just start saying, "All is well."
[00:33:26] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm. "
[00:33:26] Dinine Sig: All is well."
[00:33:27] Gretchen Schott: Right. "
[00:33:28] Dinine Sig: You're okay. You are..." And I would... And it would help me. It was my version of cleaning- Sure
I think. Oh, yeah. I don't know, but I think because I remember when I finally harnessed that, I started having... I'm using my hands- ... they're only about an inch apart, my fingers. But I started having a teeny bit more control.
[00:33:46] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:33:47] Dinine Sig: And after moving to Indianapolis and having a really, you know, sort of unsuspect- unexpected sort of yucky thing happen-
[00:33:57] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm
[00:33:57] Dinine Sig: to me, I found myself once again saying repeatedly, "You're okay."
[00:34:03] Gretchen Schott: Yeah. "
[00:34:03] Dinine Sig: You're safe. You're gonna figure this out." And it goes back to something, I think we're five questions away from it now, but loving yourself-
[00:34:11] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:34:12] Dinine Sig: to be able to do these exercises, clear the windshield-
[00:34:17] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:34:17] Dinine Sig: and-
[00:34:19] Gretchen Schott: The highlight ...
[00:34:19] Dinine Sig: the highlight reel-
[00:34:20] Gretchen Schott: Yeah
[00:34:20] Dinine Sig: or file cabinet.
[00:34:21] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:22] Dinine Sig: Um, you've gotta find something in you that you love, and I nev- I always thought I l- I don't know if this ever happened to you, if you have one moment. I always thought I did love myself.
[00:34:33] Gretchen Schott: Mm.
[00:34:33] Dinine Sig: I was brought up by a mom and dad who loved me. I had a dad that told me how amazing I was every day- Mm-hmm
that he could. He's still with us. Um, but I didn't really understand what loving myself meant-
[00:34:46] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:34:47] Dinine Sig: until after this time in Indianapolis.
[00:34:50] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:50] Dinine Sig: Because that's when I was really forced to go, "I just love myself too much-
[00:34:56] Gretchen Schott: To do
[00:34:57] Dinine Sig: that ... to allow this-
[00:34:58] Gretchen Schott: Yeah ...
[00:34:58] Dinine Sig: thing to be important anymore." Mm-hmm. But it took me, like, in thinking I had lost some love, or lost some something that wasn't even there.
[00:35:09] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:35:09] Dinine Sig: It took me real... And I, I just, I don't know, to me it's very propound- profound. I don't know if this is hitting you the same way, but it was a time where I now know when I tell you, or someone out there, "You really need to love yourself," I now know what that-
[00:35:24] Gretchen Schott: Means ...
[00:35:25] Dinine Sig: looks like and means. Mm-hmm. Do you feel-
[00:35:26] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
Well, I, I think we continue to rediscover how to love ourselves too, 'cause I would say I don't, I, I don't know that I've always actually loved myself really well. I've been m- more focused probably on loving other people, and lost sense of myself in that. But I, I think- Yeah ... you know, what you were talking about too with, with your husband and, and the, the state that you were in, at some point it's like we, we have to get to a point where it's like, "I don't, I don't want to be overwhelmed.
I don't want to feel overwhelmed." And what we have to then say is what we do want, right? Like, suffering is The worst, but torment is suffering without purpose.
[00:36:06] Dinine Sig: Right.
[00:36:06] Gretchen Schott: Right? Yes. And we are t- and, and when we are feeling overwhelming, anxious, we are literally tormenting ourself because we have no point to that.
There's no reason for that suffering. It's just- There's no
[00:36:16] Dinine Sig: helpfulness
[00:36:17] Gretchen Schott: that
[00:36:17] Dinine Sig: comes of it ... nothing.
[00:36:18] Gretchen Schott: Right. But when we decide I don't want to feel overwhelmed anymore, I want to be in control, or I don't want to feel about
[00:36:26] Dinine Sig: this- I, I wanted to be in control-
[00:36:28] Gretchen Schott: Yes ...
[00:36:28] Dinine Sig: of the narrative that I was playing in my head that was someone else's narrative.
[00:36:33] Gretchen Schott: Yep.
[00:36:33] Dinine Sig: And I think it took me... I always thought I loved myself. I never looked down on... But it took that to really go, "This is what self-love is."
[00:36:42] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:43] Dinine Sig: I love myself so much that nobody will ever write that narrative again.
[00:36:47] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:36:48] Dinine Sig: Um, even though it only happened once in my life, it will never happen again. Right.
So I love myself so much that my peace is worth more-
[00:36:56] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:36:57] Dinine Sig: than what somebody else might bring to the table occasionally. I love my... So this is, these are things that I don't wanna go on and on about this, but these are ways, anyway, that I think your book, your chapter in your book, pulls in some of these things that I haven't really titled or mentioned.
Mm. But I think other people at home- Mm ... who maybe aren't in a leadership position or are going through something, they can tap into this.
[00:37:22] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:37:23] Dinine Sig: I was challenging myself to come up with three to five highlight files or highlight reels. Yeah. I was like, "Was it passing the bar? Was it getting my driver's license?
Was it..." Um, I don't think it was having... I don't think for women having kids we're like, oh, we give ourselves-
[00:37:38] Gretchen Schott: Everyone thinks they need to say that. Right. But it's like, i- a- and what else?
[00:37:41] Dinine Sig: And what... Exactly. Right? Like- I like that. Okay. Yeah.
[00:37:44] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:37:44] Dinine Sig: So anyway, I challenge myself, and I'm gonna continue to challenge myself.
Mm. So thank you.
[00:37:48] Gretchen Schott: I love that.
[00:37:49] Dinine Sig: So some people hear leading with love and think it's too soft for the workplace. Mm. How do you respond to that?
[00:37:56] Gretchen Schott: Ugh. I feel like I've been responding to that, like, my whole career. Sorry. No, I do. Okay. I love it. No, I love the question. Um- Y- I, I think it's people don't wanna talk about love because love isn't necessarily, um, always newsworthy.
It's much more interesting to hear about the challenge and the conflict. Um, but we all, i- if you think about anyone that you have worked for that inspired you, that made you feel good about yourself, um, that encouraged you, they were leading you with love, right? Yeah. And, and it's, it is- Even
[00:38:29] Dinine Sig: teachers, like back in- Yes
elementary school, right?
[00:38:31] Gretchen Schott: Like- Coaches. Yes. Yes. They... It is all leading with love.
[00:38:35] Dinine Sig: And it could be tough love.
[00:38:37] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:37] Dinine Sig: Or it could be humorous. Some leaders lead with hum- humor.
[00:38:41] Gretchen Schott: Yep.
[00:38:41] Dinine Sig: And they get you to fall in line anyway. Like they have- Yes ... that knack.
[00:38:44] Gretchen Schott: Yes.
[00:38:45] Dinine Sig: So I, I like what you're saying.
[00:38:46] Gretchen Schott: I think, yeah, 'cause I think when we talk about love, it feels squishy.
We don't wanna say that we love the people that we work with. We don't l- although everyone wants to color with- I, every- my work people are like my family. Well, you know. Then you
[00:38:56] Dinine Sig: should love them.
[00:38:56] Gretchen Schott: Then you should love them. Right. Or
[00:38:57] Dinine Sig: they should love you at least, right? Yes. Or love what you're doing.
[00:39:00] Gretchen Schott: Exactly.
[00:39:01] Dinine Sig: Um, one thing I really wanna touch on is, um, you shared that one of the hardest words of the year.
[00:39:07] Gretchen Schott: Mm.
[00:39:07] Dinine Sig: I had such a hard time this year. I don't think I picked one. Oh, yeah? That I settled on one, but, um, that you have chosen was humility. Mm-hmm. Humility. And I have actually had this conversation with one of our joint friends that, and I'll talk to you about it later off- Yeah
off air. Um, but, um, in the chapter in your book, you talked about turning to the litany of humility- Mm ... which I had never heard before. Um, I think we all suffer with pride, especially women that have had some success, and men.
[00:39:38] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:38] Dinine Sig: Um, and then you turn to the litany of humility, and this is what struck me From the desire to be esteemed, deliver me.
From the desire to be loved, deliver me." End quote. While doing my research, I found this line incredibly powerful and sharp, and I kept going back to it. Um, I believe that we all wanna be loved, and we all wanna be held up and looked up to.
[00:40:05] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:40:06] Dinine Sig: But I get that it could be damaging to our self-development.
[00:40:09] Gretchen Schott: Yes.
[00:40:09] Dinine Sig: Hence what I just said before about I love myself so much now that some guy coming along and saying he loves me, it better be backed up by A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H. Do you know what I mean? Like- Oh, yeah ... um, but that was me learning to love myself. So, um, what, I sort of digressed for a second, but it could be damaging to our self-development, um, to seek it in others.
Mm-hmm. So I'm still trying to process this because- Yeah ... you dropped a bomb on me in that chapter. How do you process it now?
[00:40:41] Gretchen Schott: Oh my gosh. I, I tell you the, when s- when I said, oh, humility's my main word for the year, a woman at, at my church gave me that prayer, and I'd never heard of it, and she gave it to me.
I was like I read, I was like, "Oh my gosh, is she trying to tell me that I'm, like, so full of myself?" Because all of these things are, like, things that I, I definitely want, right? And then I went through this whole process of, like, how does confidence and humility work together? 'Cause can I be confident and humble at the same time?
And the answer is yes, but what I realized about myself was that I was focused so much on my confidence and demonstrating my confidence, it actually was, um, it was my pride and not showing up as humility, trying to be overly focused on I've got my stuff together, and I know what I'm doing, and I'm an expert at this and that.
And I was so focused on demonstrating my confidence that I lost the humility in that. And so now, when I am feeling like am I getting a little too big for my britches, or even when I feel like I need kind of like a boost of confidence, I go back to that prayer, and I read through it, and I recognize that all of those things are what I desire, but they are desires for this world, not for another world, right?
And so for me to get to that other world, I really need to be focused less on myself and how I'm serving others, and how is the, the words and the messages and the content that I put out in the world, how is that serving some other greater purpose and not myself? And when I'm, when I'm wedded to serving other people and not wedded to how it makes me look, sound, build my brand, anything like that, that is really the sweet spot.
That's, that's the juice. And
[00:42:18] Dinine Sig: that's difficult, right? Yeah. Because we, we all want to build our brand. We all wanna be seen as relevant or important in some way. Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing- Mm-hmm ... we'd just be doing something- And
[00:42:28] Gretchen Schott: there's tons of messages you should be focused on that, right? Right, right.
Like, what are you doing for your brand? Right, right. What are you doing for yourself? So-
[00:42:32] Dinine Sig: No, I, I really appreciate that. I'm gonna struggle with this for a while. I just want you to know. Um, just trying to sort of process through, like, how do I really say that and mean it- Mm-hmm ... and want it?
[00:42:43] Gretchen Schott: And want
[00:42:44] Dinine Sig: it.
Because, um, it is so, it's deep.
[00:42:47] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:42:47] Dinine Sig: It's deep. But thank you for giving me something to really ponder about. Um-
[00:42:52] Gretchen Schott: Yes. I'm glad it stuck with you.
[00:42:53] Dinine Sig: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um, so what is bringing you light right now? What brings the light? Mm-hmm. 'Cause my show's about bringing light to dark moments.
[00:43:04] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:43:04] Dinine Sig: So anything, you can name a TV show to a book- ... to a friend, to an animal, to a job. Like, what is bringing you... Where do you find the light right now? Mm-hmm. Where does Gretchen Schott find her light?
[00:43:17] Gretchen Schott: Um, I think there, I, I, there's so many things I could say. Um- I think what I would, what I would probably pour into right now is the thing that's bringing me probably the most light is my family.
My family's gone through a lot of transition this year. Um, just yesterday I moved my son up to college for the second year, and, um, my daughter graduated college this year. Congratulations. And I still have... Yes. And I, um, my youngest son is, um, in his junior year of high school, and he's starting to learn how to drive.
And, um, all- Which
[00:43:50] Dinine Sig: one did the-
[00:43:51] Gretchen Schott: The show choir is the s- the junior in high school. In high school, okay. Yes, yes, yes.
[00:43:55] Dinine Sig: Okay, thank you. Tell him I got the note. Thank you.
[00:43:56] Gretchen Schott: Oh, I'm so glad. Okay. Yes. Um, seeing all of them kind of, uh, wrestling with adulting, if you will, like maturing, um, is bringing me joy. Although it's-
[00:44:11] Dinine Sig: It is bringing you joy?
Like, it's not a double-edge that-
[00:44:14] Gretchen Schott: I was just... It's double. I mean, it's hard because I want to jump in, and I wanna solve, and I wanna serve. But the, but the fact that they're in these places and they're wrestling with these things also lets me know that my husband and I have grounded them in good values and in, in who they are.
And if they weren't wrestling with this stuff, then we probably have done a lot of things wrong. Ah, okay. So seeing them, seeing them struggle a little bit, as hard as it is, actually bringing me some joy, 'cause it's reinforcing, like, why we wanted to have-
[00:44:45] Dinine Sig: Kids ...
[00:44:45] Gretchen Schott: a family. Yeah.
[00:44:46] Dinine Sig: Okay. I like that. Thank you. Um, so this is kind of a quick, off the top of your head way to sort of finish out the show.
[00:44:54] Gretchen Schott: Okay.
[00:44:54] Dinine Sig: If you could send a short text to every leader in the world today-
[00:44:58] Gretchen Schott: Mm-hmm ...
[00:44:58] Dinine Sig: similar to the you period, love me period, love period, me period, well period- Mm-hmm ... which you said you wanted us to do from reading the chapter. Yes. Send a text to someone that says, "You love me well," with periods after each of those words.
Um, what would you send to the leaders of the world, whether it's political- Hmm ... church, business. That's a fun- And somehow, some way, you got the power that with one text- ... they would all get a text from Gretchen Schott.
[00:45:29] Gretchen Schott: Hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:45:30] Dinine Sig: Would it be some... I mean, I don't think you'd be telling them you love me well, because- No
they don't know you.
[00:45:34] Gretchen Schott: Mm-mm.
[00:45:35] Dinine Sig: But could you think... And if you can't, it's okay, but I'm just wondering, if you could send one, what would it be?
[00:45:41] Gretchen Schott: I'd probably send, "You are enough."
[00:45:45] Dinine Sig: Okay
[00:45:46] Gretchen Schott: You're enough
[00:45:47] Dinine Sig: So if all the listeners could receive a text- Mm-hmm ... from Gretchen-
[00:45:51] Gretchen Schott: Yes ...
[00:45:52] Dinine Sig: um, and I think I would co-sign that text too.
You are enough.
[00:45:56] Gretchen Schott: You are enough.
[00:45:57] Dinine Sig: Um, that's a great place for us to end this discussion.
[00:46:01] Gretchen Schott: Yeah.
[00:46:02] Dinine Sig: The book is called Joy at Work. I mentioned your other podcast, but you're starting a new one.
[00:46:07] Gretchen Schott: I am.
[00:46:08] Dinine Sig: What's it called?
[00:46:08] Gretchen Schott: It's gonna be called Leading Well.
[00:46:10] Dinine Sig: Leading Well.
[00:46:11] Gretchen Schott: Yeah, and it's gonna be based off of some of the things I talk about in the book, as well as kind of my own philosophies on leadership and- Okay, so-
[00:46:17] Dinine Sig: and
[00:46:17] Gretchen Schott: how we lead well ...
[00:46:18] Dinine Sig: we'll be listening for that too. Um, and so if... We're gonna have all these, um, links in our show notes. Great. We'll get them from Gretchen. If any of you have any questions, you go to Dinineesseg.com. Send me an email- Yeah ... and I can connect you if you can't... I think we're gonna have enough on the show notes where people could connect with you directly.
[00:46:38] Gretchen Schott: Definitely.
[00:46:39] Dinine Sig: But, um, but anyway, let me know at Dinineesseg.com. It's Dininee@Dinineesseg.com if you have anything else you'd like to say. Also, you enjoyed the show today, leave a rating and review, share it with a friend. I would love that. I would be really grateful. And I just hope that, um, you guys find your own light today, and have a great day, guys.
Thanks for listening. Thank you, Gretchen. Thanks for having me.
[00:47:05] Gretchen Schott: Hi friends. If you enjoy what you're listening to, please follow, rate, and share The Space In Between