Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
AIC_Ep28
===
[00:00:00]
Liz Herl: Hey there,
Tim Caldwell: Ola, how are you?
Liz Herl: Welcome back to Den Chaos Podcast. Yeah,
Tim Caldwell: thanks.
Liz Herl: So, we're gonna kind of get right into it today, yet again. Ready? Go. No present. Time. Like no time. Like the
Tim Caldwell: present?
Liz Herl: Yeah, something like that. Mm-hmm.
The Silent Struggle of Overextension
---
Liz Herl: I'm wanting to talk about something I think we all struggle with individuals, people, families, relationships, [00:01:00] and sometimes I think it's a silent struggle, but.
Because we don't talk about it that much, and it's the overextension of ourselves. Mm-hmm. Something I talk about quite frequently. Mm-hmm. In my practice and the absence of our personal boundaries and how can we start protecting our most valuable resource, which actually is ourselves
Tim Caldwell: and time.
Liz Herl: Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. There's, there's so much
Tim Caldwell: of that, right?
Liz Herl: It's the constantly feeling overwhelmed. Of stretching yourself thin or running on fumes, and if that's what happens to you occasionally. Well, this is the episode for you.
Tim Caldwell: It's very topical. We live in a day where it seems like everything is hyper connected and we're oversaturated with everything around us.
And then when it comes to our personal life and our business life or work life, there always seems to be this growing demand for more me and less me. For me. Correct. And that takes away from you.
Understanding Overextension and Boundaries
---
Liz Herl: So the little [00:02:00] overview I'm going to give is, we're gonna cover what overextension for self is, what our lack of boundaries like our internal silent burnout, mental and physical impacts.
Why we struggle with saying no and reclaiming our access, like protecting ourself, our energy, our time, and practical tools and mindsets, and just kind of do an overall view of that. Yeah. So getting right into it, what is over extension of self?
This happens when we give more than we have emotionally, physically, mentally, financially, or energetically. It's the relentless, yes. Yes, yes, yes. When we need to be saying no, it's picking up the slack for others. So, so it's like staying late or coming in when we're really sick and we should be staying home.
It's the constant go all the time.
Tim Caldwell: It's, yes, it is. It's, maybe it's not just your attendance, but maybe it's the uh, simple fact that there's this expectation that you're going to perform. Do more with [00:03:00] less. I need you to step up for the team.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: And, And quite obviously, it's not much of a team effort when it feels like you're carrying more and more load and the compensation just doesn't, it just doesn't pay you enough.
Liz Herl: Right. It doesn't balance out. Right. So one of the most important things I wanna talk about, that this doesn't just come from work, it shows up in our families, our friendships, relationships, our course, our caregiving, and then our community obligations, you name it, it pretty much goes and coincides there.
Tim Caldwell: Right? Right. Can you co-chair this? Can you help the kids make cookies for this? Can you give little Sarah or the kids a ride to whatever function? Every time we say yes, all it does is jam us into a tighter and tighter spot. And it's harder and harder to balance. Now, I'm not, not just to carry out that function, but all of these functions that lead up to it.
I can't just go out and buy cookies. I have to make cookies. Mm-hmm. I have to, because you wanna give it your own signature. You wanna make sure that it, [00:04:00] there's your own personal input and that it, it's a good reflection on you. But as a result. It. It's a lot of pressure.
And you's a pressure. Pay the price. It's only 24 hours in a day for apple sakes.
Liz Herl: Right. Well, and I think this is really important. When I was reviewing this and I wrote this, I'm like, it sometimes doesn't even feel like a choice. It's just automatic. You have to do it. And that's where we have that automatic feedback in our brain where we've constantly put this pressure on ourselves.
We automatically respond in that fashion. So this is altering that mindset a little bit of no is actually an option. And why is it an option? Yeah. So why do we get burnout? Like, or why do we not carry out our, that's a very common thing today. Sorry, I'm bouncing around, but boundaries is a popular word.
But I was sharing with you when I was writing this up. I like the idea that boundaries are not walls. But there are doors with locks and your hand has all the keys. Like are you giving your keys [00:05:00] away to the doors that you've locked?
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely.
Liz Herl: And how often do we do that with good intentions, with, you know, the idea that this would be alleviating in some fashion, and why do we do that?
Tim Caldwell: Well, think it's good that we establish what are boundaries, what are standards?
Workplace Dynamics and Boundaries
---
Tim Caldwell: What are expectations and let's use the employee employer dynamic first. Mm-hmm. You hire into a job, you both have spoken and unspoken expectations of the work and the work and what the duties that you'll carry out.
Mm-hmm. It would be expected that you do a good job. That would be a standard. However. If doing a good job requires that your boundaries are always sacrificed or somebody's impeding on them, it, then becomes an issue. So I expect you to work 40 hours a week. That would be the expectation of hiring and a full-time employee.
Understandable. I would expect you to do good work. [00:06:00] Understandable. However let's play out the scenario that you're one of three. One person never comes in. The other person sometimes comes in, and when these things happen, it always seems to fall to you to pick up the slack. So they call you on your days off and they say, we need you to come in.
I need you to do some simple work. as we expound on the expectations, boundaries, and the standards of what goes on with work is of the, of the team that you've put together. One is completely unreliable, one is sometimes reliable, and everything falls to you as being the most reliable. So they call you on your days off to come in.
Mm-hmm. Come. They call you on days that they don't show up. They call you. Well, that has then encroached on your boundaries. Sure, you want to go do a good job, you want to be a good employee, you wanna do all these things. But the boundaries have now need to be discussed, reestablished, and make sure that they're held firm.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Boundaries such as. I am not [00:07:00] available after this hour.
Liz Herl: Yeah. We're getting ready. Yeah, we're getting ready and we'll cover
Tim Caldwell: that. Mm-hmm. I understand that you contact me. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. But that is not my problem. I will see you at 8:00 AM
Liz Herl: very hard for people to do.
It's very hard for people to do and so when we don't have clear boundaries, we invite everyone to have full access to all of us at all times, which is un emotionally and. Obtainable, really. And it leads us to burnout, resentment, and even physical illness. Like we, we run ourselves ragged, physically and mentally.
So the tricky part is like, how do you, when you've spent most of your life over extending yourself, you might not even recognize what boundaries even look like. Like what you're describing there ideally sounds pretty reasonable. Mm-hmm. Like, hey, I'm just, I appreciate the phone call, but I'm not available.
It's. Almost painful for people to do that. It's to be able to put that boundary in place. Like what this kind of, and we'll get into that where [00:08:00] this all comes from. Like I don't want them to feel like I'm not a team player like you're saying or whatever. So what could that look like in inserting that could be much?
To what you're saying, first off, not answering work texts or calls, anything after. Sure. 6:00 PM Sure. You know, which seems like I'm, I'm sure if someone's listening to this, like, are you kidding me? Everyone calls me and texts me at all these hours. Yeah, I'm sure they do. And depending on your job demands, that might be a requirement, however, is it?
Or is it your expectations or demand?
Tim Caldwell: Right, right. It always rains from on top, right? So leadership looks to management. Management says, alright, well call somebody. Get somebody in here. Right? Well, they call the person who they usually lean on. If you don't, if you can't develop, if you haven't developed an established a set of boundaries, they'll tread all over you.
Mm-hmm. And it takes some strength. Sure. As an example, I know people who work full-time jobs and have part-time jobs mm-hmm. And their full-time jobs, the people will expect them to [00:09:00] stay later. And you have to, you have to establish, I am not available when that clock rings at five o'clock. Mm-hmm. I'm going to my second job.
Right. And if there's, there could be retaliation there be, there could be some type of, reproach to that, that will impact you at work? Well, you better get that straightened out because those things, if you're not firmly established and you don't, apply yourself. Uh. You'll be bad at both jobs or you'll lose one job and impact the other.
And it's just not fair. It's not fair.
Role-Playing Boundaries in Personal Life
---
Liz Herl: So I wanna give the listeners a little kind of role play scenario. So I'm gonna, and I winging this at you, so I'm gonna see how this goes, right? Okay? Mm-hmm. So, gonna be. Again, we're kind of utilizing workplace environments. I think it's important to bring up the family and social dynamic.
So I'm gonna be a buddy calling you up and I'm like, Hey, so I've got some things coming up this weekend and I need your help to come over and help me put up this back fence. I've kind of put it off and I really need your help and I know you're great at this.
Tim Caldwell: Okay.
Liz Herl: What's your response to Ripple rapport playing? Like, what would you say to that? [00:10:00]
Tim Caldwell: Okay. I've already made plans. No. You know what? Here, I'll, I'll play the typical Yeah, sure, man. Yeah. When do you need me? Sure. I'll be right over.
Liz Herl: Right. And I'm wanting you to play the person that is inserting the boundary.
Tim Caldwell: So this is me. When do you need this work done?
Liz Herl: Yeah. I was thinking about Saturday, about 7:00 AM. Okay, let me look at my
Tim Caldwell: schedule and I'll get back to you.
Liz Herl: Oh, you know, I always count on you. You're like the one number one person. I knew exactly who I was gonna call today and I appreciate you so much. It really would mean a lot if you could come over, make this happen,
Tim Caldwell: dude.
I appreciate that. But you know what that's a kind of a laborious day. I. Let me look at what I can do, and maybe I can give you a couple hours, but no promises.
Liz Herl: All right. Well, I just need you to know that this really means a lot to me. I hope you can get back with me as soon as possible. Sure, sure. So like, that's the end.
Okay. So I purposely wanted to do that dynamic because that's kind of the pressure. I'm put, I'm putting in the pressure cooker. Right? Right. Gosh, I'm letting them down and they always rely on me, and that feels really good to my ears. Yeah. And my ego, and like, oh my gosh, I'm their man. Okay. First off, you could be a lot of people's man or a woman in any case.
Mm-hmm. I need something from somebody. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:11:00] So how do I kind of go about maybe, you know, addressing that language up so I can kind of Yeah. Establish what I'm trying to obtain?
The Importance of Saying No
---
Liz Herl: So, one of the statements here of like putting in clear boundaries is saying to someone, I'm not available this weekend, and then no explanation.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Okay. That's a hard one, right? So it is a hard one, but you know what, there's no buts to this. The explanation would be, they call, they need something right away. It seems to be urgent. If it doesn't seem urgent to you, it's just, I'm just unavailable, but I, well, dude, I really need, I really need, right.
That's why I, I did what I did there. I understand that I, you were still Sure, sure.
Liz Herl: You were falling into the explanation role. Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's what I was trying to establish.
Tim Caldwell: So in that, well then, Liz, if you wanna do an explanation, ask me how I'd handle that because it would go, you know what, dude, I just can't be there this weekend.
Mm-hmm. And then when they go, well, dude, I really need you. I understand you should have given me more heads up. Maybe we could have done this, but I'm not available.
Liz Herl: Right. And you're, you're being able to review that kind of feedback right [00:12:00] now. Yeah. But in general, I'm just as susceptible. I'm not trying to put you in the hot seat.
Oh, no, no. I get it. I get it. I'm susceptible to this as well. When I'm unable to do something, I feel like I do need to give an explanation. Even when I'm scheduling or whatever, I'm like, mm-hmm. Oh, I'm sorry I'm not available because I have, you know, that's, that's right. Like I have my, my child's parent teacher conference.
Like, they don't need to know that. That's like no one's business. Yeah. But I do that. We all tend to do that, so. Well, it's not, that's hard. It's not just,
Tim Caldwell: it's not just the explanation. Yeah. Any type of explanation as to what's going on, is it, they ask why not? Yeah. What are you doing? That's so important.
Right? They'll ask you a question like that. Yeah, absolutely. Very intrusive. And I'm all like, none of your business, but no, no. Are you
Liz Herl: kidding? That's very rude.
Tim Caldwell: I know that would be rude. Mm-hmm. However, it's none of their business. Sorry guys. I have, I've already made plans.
Liz Herl: Right? And that's it.
Well, what are your plans? Can you break 'em? It. No, I have plans. Yeah, I have plans and, but this is really hard. I wanna be really clear that it sounds rigid, what we're talking about when we're [00:13:00] talking about assertive boundaries, such as in this nature. But you are not being rude. I think delivery is everything.
You were being very kind and going into, Hey, you know, I'm not sure my week, what I have to look him up my weekend looks like. Things like that. We are very kind. Yeah. But at the end of the day, if I, if I stick to my guns and say, Hey, this is not gonna work out for me. I've got other things going on. Yeah.
And I'm really sorry, but that's just, I hope, Hey, did you call anybody else? You know? Yeah. Did you call anybody else? Yeah. See if there's somebody else available. And this is the, the other part of boundaries. And I think this is a very therapeutic approach, so I just wanna be clear, but letting whomever know that you don't have the mental capacity to take on their stuff that day Yeah.
Is really important. Yeah. And I know that sounds like, you know, I'm at like max capacity. Like I cannot take one more thing on. And this is why it's important we put boundaries in place 'cause we're delivering that to the right people. Sure. Like who's our priority in our [00:14:00] life. Sure. And making sure that we're not shortcoming our partners when we when we're putting all of our work into work.
Now, when I say that, sometimes there's deadlines that have to be met, and if it's like, Hey, I need this, I need this. I understand that. Mm-hmm. However, we agreed upon, like, this was what I was gonna complete and I have to go do that right now. Right. And no apology. Right. Which sounds like, again, rigid and hard.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, well it's, it seems completely within reason to, to assume that I've made plans. These are, maybe these are important plans. Maybe they're very important to somebody that you be there for that. And if you obligate yourself, you are taking away from the a hundred percent obligation you gave to them, no matter, even if you got the job done, now I'm stressed.
Now I'm rushed. No, you made plans. Stick to your plans if nothing else for your own mental health. Mm-hmm. You don't want to put them in a jam. But you know what simple fact is? You didn't cause the jam.
Liz Herl: Right. And it's all of [00:15:00] these things that we're talking about. It's almost, I want people to understand excruciating to put in these boundaries.
'cause you feel, especially if you have a people pleaser, significant part of you
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: That is in high action. Yeah. It's uncomfortably just to be in that state. Yeah. It's just very uncomfortable, I should say to respond to people because I, I'm usually making everybody comfortable. Yeah. Not uncomfortable.
Yeah. And now how am I, I know this will immediately make them uncomfortable, and I share this with individuals that. When we start enacting in these boundaries, it's very dysregulating. For others around us, because I'm so used to being my, you know, good time friend, and now you're suddenly like.
Closing me off and that's where are you not my friend anymore. Yeah, yeah. Like then there's that question, Hey, actually I'm doing some really new stuff and that is, I gotta take some time for me. Yeah. And I know this sounds weird, I'm not trying to be selfish, whatever. And that sounds like an explanation, but I, I wanna under give an understanding, explanation and [00:16:00] clarification or two different things.
Yes. So I wanna clarify this change, but then I'm done. I'm not gonna continue to clarify Mike, because then I'm, I'm overexplaining what's transpiring?
Tim Caldwell: You know what's important about that too is the simple fact that you're doing both people a service, both you're informing, instructing, perhaps the person who continues to ask.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: That look, if we had known in the future, if we had known. If you had planned this and you knew you were gonna be, that's one thing. If it's an emergency, that's another thing. However, it's not my emergency. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But if you feel like you need to stay in that position, be the go-to guy, please contact me on another time, but in this case I'm not.
Right. And you have to be rigid about it. But the ramifications of standing your ground is that all of a sudden nobody's calling. Okay. And then you find out that something went on and, oh, we were gonna invite you, but we didn't assume you weren't gonna come. I [00:17:00] go, well, that's not very fair.
Mm-hmm. I would've loved to come.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: But every time you come, you say, no. Think about it. Every time you come, you want me to come save things? You need my truck. You need me to lift heavy objects. You know what, I'd love to go out and be with you guys. Mm-hmm. Because my social interaction with you doesn't necessarily require labor.
It doesn't require a dedication where I have to give up my time. So
Liz Herl: you perfectly phrase that and frame that up, I should say, to go into why is it so hard to say no? Mm-hmm. Which is what we're kind of, looking at.
Fear of Rejection and People Pleasing
---
Liz Herl: And that is the fear of rejection or abandonment, which you're speaking to right now.
Suddenly you're abandoned from social interactions or workplace environment because you've made some pretty, I would say, firm boundaries around yourself, and you're considered maybe not as, you know, easy, easy flowing, easy to get along with whatever, which is not the case. But it might be that, that fear of, if I [00:18:00] say this, then I won't be included.
Yeah. If I do this, then I won't be. Yeah. So the fear and rejection of that in and abandonment actually goes right into a people pleasing part of us is definitely rooted in our childhood experiences. Yeah, sure. That's just 100% agreed.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: We learn how acceptance works when we're children. How we're
given accolades or validation or encouragement reward. And if I learn, if I do for others, I get a lot in return. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna do as much as I possibly can. And I'm gonna make that not only a thought, but I'm gonna make it a belief system. And it's now core part of me.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And I don't realize how damaging that is. But
Tim Caldwell: you know what, it doesn't require that reward system is not only sustainable, it's something you can keep up if. Time isn't as important as you get older and you become business owners and apparent to young people, your time is a premium.
I'm responsible to transport. Mm-hmm. To care for, to [00:19:00] make, to ensure safety of all of these people. And now you're asking me to do this at work. Mm-hmm. And this at work and this after work and this before work. All of these things take time now when you're foot loose and fancy free as a younger person.
Okay, great. I don't, I'm not got, I ain't got nothing to do. I'm gonna sit around and play video games. I'll help you do a task, however. Those same change with time. And this is, this is a thing. Maybe this is a maybe. Yes. Maybe, yeah. Maybe they change, maybe you could be a 40-year-old something playing video games.
Maybe they my point behind that is the, the reward or the compensation, it may be just to you. Mm-hmm. It may be maybe they're trading, Hey, if you'll help me with this, I'll help you with that. Mm-hmm. Maybe they're trading, maybe they're bartering. Do, do this. I'll buy you pizza and golf. Right.
Deal. Right,
Liz Herl: And I think that's negotiable when you're looking at it that way. But if it's a constant state of need on you, that is completely different. And also the belief of our worth has always been tied to how useful we are to others. And the reason why I say always there, 'cause you [00:20:00] know, I feel about absolutes, but it is, within our behavior and how we receive information and rejection, that I am as good as I provide and this is a significant thing for men. Mm-hmm. I'm only as, I don't know, important as much as I provide financially. You know,
Tim Caldwell: my worth is being evaluated by what I'm providing.
Liz Herl: Correct.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. And
Liz Herl: that is the true for that is the same case for women as well, by the way.
'cause I can speak to that personally. Sure. And. That is very untrue. We should be able to be able to do nothing and want people to enjoy the presence of our personality mm-hmm. And our company. Mm-hmm. Without any obligatory effort of, you know, bringing something to something or, or picking, moving something, doing, you know, some sort of offering, if you will.
Sure. And just, just you being you. But we, we know that, oh, well when I do this for others. This is how people receive me. So that feels really good. I'll continue doing [00:21:00] that. So that belief kind of really, again, grows from there. Now guilt. Guilt is our friendly friend that we have to deal with all the time.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: We feel bad that we're taking care of ourselves for one, like. That sounds really selfish. It's like, yeah. And then when people call you selfish, like, you know, I haven't heard from you in a while and I don't even know what you've been up to. Well, I've just been really trying to take care of myself.
You know, how selfish I, I've really needed you and I've been by myself and Yeah. It's like, I'm so sorry. Like, then you were immediately filled. That guilt. Yeah. You know,
Tim Caldwell: again, a hyper connective world and yet that phone works both directions. People, I've said this before. People have heard me say it, it seems a bit cold, but you, you're gonna stay connected with the people who want to be connected with you.
Mm-hmm. There's gotta be an exchange. And that exchange has to be your company, your laughter, your wisdom, your whatever. Sure. But you, you can't just keep giving and it's a bottomless Pohto. At some [00:22:00] point you need to fill up too, and if they're not giving you something back to fill up on. Love, affection, support.
I'm not sure why you're doing it, but you're gonna run out,
Liz Herl: right? It's, yeah. This is the challenge of why I do what we do, like the, the individual to reflect in self, why do I do what I do?
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Understanding that healthy people will respect your boundaries and unhealthy people will resent your boundaries.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. That's a, that's a good one.
Liz Herl: Yeah. They're gonna be like, Hey, you know, I need, I need. And you can tell the differences clearly. If you're paying attention, you can talk about, yeah, that's a good one.
Tim Caldwell: I would even say this about, let's say in the world of leadership, I would respect a leader who would say, I know this isn't fair of me to ask you, 'cause I've asked you in the past, but I can't get other people to cooperate.
Mm-hmm. Do you think? Mm-hmm. Now that's a very generous thing to ask. And you know, in a very kind way. But I would. Bet you that a really good leader, he had [00:23:00] to really stretch himself to ask you. Mm. Right. He should have taken into, I ask you all the time. Mm-hmm. I don't want to ask you. Mm-hmm.
But I'm gonna ask you. Mm-hmm. And that's, that in itself makes you aware that, you know what, maybe you do have a leader that, an employer, a boss, that really does care and he really, really hates to do that. But your responsibility is, I've said this before, you're no good to anybody broke.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: If you're gonna try to provide a service or care for others, you're no good to others if you are broke.
Liz Herl: Right. Well, it's understanding you're not mean, you're not selfish, you're not inconsiderate. That's You're human and you need time and space to breathe within your own humanity. Absolutely.
Mental and Physical Health Costs
---
Liz Herl: And doing this is a lot easier said than done because now we're gonna talk about the cost of mental and physical health.
Mm-hmm. And. That the lack of boundaries don't just drain our time, but they tip away at our health as well. That's right. Yeah, they do. And that's something we talk about all the time. That's why we do the physical and mental health components, [00:24:00] is because chronic anxiety, burnout, irritability, emotional exhaustion, all is a mental drain on us.
I've shared with you, I've been in experiences before where I'm conversing with someone and there's a lot of energy required for me to keep up the conversation. Yes. And it's a mental exhaustion. Like, oh my goodness, I have to really keep deriving a lot of information back from this person to keep up the conversation it's exhausting. It's outside. That's all I can say. It's exhaust. They literally
Tim Caldwell: suck your energy.
Liz Herl: I call 'em energy vampire. Yeah. Yeah. I call,
Tim Caldwell: I call those people ask assholes.
Liz Herl: Oh, that's not very nice. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: They're the, they ask and ask and ask and ask, and they don't listen.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Well, so anyways, that's an example of.
one mentally exhaustion, but the physical is, yeah. I tell you, stress kills people all the time. Yes. And so you wonder why you're not sleeping or having constant headaches, or you have really terrible gut issues. Mm-hmm. Which is like, I would say 90% of America
Tim Caldwell: 70% of people have. These statistics came, about [00:25:00] back when I was in med school over 20 years ago.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm. And immune dysfunction all Yeah. I mean, it just, it's chronic. It's
Tim Caldwell: right all, it's everything, all it's a syndrome. Right. You, you can't have one without the other.
Liz Herl: And we, when we become disconnected in our bodies and those needs, we lose track of what we feel like because we're too busy being there for everybody else.
We don't even consider how lousy we feel for self. Right.
Everyday Scenarios and Stress
---
Tim Caldwell: Let's play out your average working guy scenario. A man or woman. They have a nine to five, let's say. It's not particularly strenuous physically, however, it requires attention. It requires some hustle. Let's say you're car salesman.
As a car salesman you have to meet and greet, you have to work with all types of people. Maybe you're paid on commission. Mm-hmm. All of these stresses stack up, right? So maybe you're a car salesman at kind of a low grade place. Well, now you gotta hustle a little bit, right? You gotta kind of shiny the apple even more.
And that might lead to you compromising a little bit what you would think in your moral and ethics. Maybe you're [00:26:00] stretching some, these little things kind of peck away at you, but now you're having to kind of squeeze people into these cars. I was gonna say shoes. 'cause this is how they do it with shoes, is take 'em for a test drive, get in that, and take it for a test drive.
Mm-hmm. And then they're making promises that aren't completely transparent. And the satisfaction from you doing your job is not what it used to be. Or it kind of takes its toll because you're having to be a little dishonest or. Something in that realm. But again, if you don't sell a car, I don't make any money.
You do your job, you're doing pretty good, but people are asking you to do things on the side. Hey. A couple guys are missing. Can you put in extra hours? Sure. Well, that's less time in sleep. Less time in eating, less time in self-care.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
---
Tim Caldwell: We're having a company event. Can you come to it?
Oh, sure. Less time in eating. Less time in self-care, less time in health. All of those things over the period of time. In [00:27:00] 24 hours, now you're sleeping five. You are working ahead of work. You're working after work, your functions are all, all going on.
The Impact of Stress on Health
---
Tim Caldwell: Now, how does this play out in the human body? As stress goes up cortisol levels rise.
Now we have. Anxiety. We have levels of anxiety when the cor cortisols uh, a hormone produced in our body to indicate stress as the hormone goes up and that stress indicator is more predominant and hormones aren't acting correctly. So, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, all of these functional, endocrine processes are not hampered or altered
Liz Herl: or impaired.
Tim Caldwell: Or impaired. And as a result, now I'm more irritable. Mm-hmm. Maybe I'm more sensitive to cry. Maybe I am more sensitive to pressure and everything becomes almost emotional.
Recognizing the Signs of Burnout
---
Liz Herl: Now I have these raging headaches and I, I got, got hurts all the time.
Tim Caldwell: Ly stress, the physical stress. You're [00:28:00] not sleeping enough to recover. The level of stress that you put on is gonna scratch it. I feel like I ran a marathon every time my head hits the pillow, I sleep, I go, I just crash out. I don't sleep, I don't wake up rested and revived and looking forward to my work.
It's stress, stress, stress. Well, that can lead to high blood pressure. It can lead to insomnia. It can lead to heart attack, it can lead to stroke. It can lead to gut problems. Ulcers, all yeah, headaches. All it's, there's a myriad of different things. Again, typically it's a syndrome. Once that takes over, if you have one, you have the other, right?
Mm-hmm. At some point you become very unhealthy.
The Importance of Setting Boundaries
---
Tim Caldwell: So how do you reverse that? I guess that's where it would be a shame if it got to a point of the physicality where you have a heart attack and everybody realizes it often does. Wow, you're under a lot of stress. Let's dial back on that.
It would be a shame if it had to go to that. But if you had the foresight and the awareness to say, I can't keep doing this, and this is where you put your foot down and this is where [00:29:00] people will or will not understand that.
Liz Herl: Right. And that's kind of, that's the full circle of what we're talking about.
Yeah, that's right. Making the decision, what we're ta, what we're saying of that. Saying, I'm putting your foot down. I'm not gonna do this anymore. Is a lot easier said than done when it's been grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. And then it's like, well, either I do this or I die of a heart attack or a stroke, or have a.
Medicine cabinet of 4 8500 different types of pills to keep me going. Mm-hmm. Which is not healthy at all. So it's important to know that, how important? Well, it's important to know how looking at our mental and physical health is key in what we're our everyday life. Expectations are, you may start to notice, you can't even remember the last time you felt rested.
Or joyful. Or excited. Yeah. Or when your time was actually yours. I mean, these are all identifying factors and I'm sure that Yeah, if you're listening, that you can definitely relate to.
Protecting Your Personal Space
---
Liz Herl: So, being able to, now what do I do to address all that even further [00:30:00] is protecting your access. Now this is very near and dear to me because I think we are incredibly over access in our society.
Mm-hmm. Both within our workplace, which I wanna get away from that so much as more of day-to-day life relationships. Yeah. The personal mm-hmm. And family things of that nature. There is this, I believe. The idea that I have the right to have all the information from someone else that's an underlining current that I think that is kind of being fed through maybe social media or belief systems or what have you, that I should have full access to whenever I, I need it.
Which is a, a. Of a heavy level of dependency.
Tim Caldwell: So how do we, that's the questioning. That's the where are you? Why not? Mm-hmm. Yes. What happened? Yeah. Why didn't she answer my call? Why I text you. Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Like, you know, you left me unread. I love that one. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, who the heck cares? Anyways, but I think this is really great.
I saw this. And you are not a public park. You're not open [00:31:00] 24 7, right? So you're not there for everyone to utilize all your faculties at any given moment, at any given day, and respond in their timeline, not yours.
Tim Caldwell: In mine, in mine, in business, it has, it's been part of my character is that as much as I want to help people especially.
Like with training and getting in good shape, I want you to come in and do things. I realize you can't do, some people can't afford it, but you know what? I can get you started. Mm-hmm. And then we're gonna figure out a way, but I don't have this giant floating religious symbol over my head that everything's a charity.
Mm-hmm. don't roll your eyes at me and ask disgusted when I say, okay, I need to start collecting some money. 'cause people disappear. Mm-hmm. And that's unfortunate. Yeah, but the simple fact is, is if I just clarify is that we're gonna do this for a while. We're gonna try to get things started, but I don't bear the burden of carrying your load the entire time when everybody else is paying their fair share, or do you understand my example?
Liz Herl: So just [00:32:00] understanding that well. They have access to you, but you're not letting that Yes. Be taken advantage of. Yes.
Managing Emotional Labor
---
Liz Herl: So, how do we protect our access of ourselves is, again, yet again around in the same area of boundaries, but not everyone gets your emotional labor is one of my very favorite one.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Is I, I think that we shouldn't. Definitely have an outlook of empathy and understanding, but it should have a limit in at some point we're enabling behavior. Sure. Or now the expectation is I know exactly who to call when I'm searching for maybe emotional validation around something and it's like I just don't have it to give.
Yeah. Like, I cannot hear this one more time. Mm-hmm. You know, and how do I do that now? Inserting that understanding, like not everyone gets my emotional labor. Like I, I have to give that away because they've come accustomed to it. Now yet again, that'll be challenging for people to not receive. Once you put that in [00:33:00] play as well as not every situation deserves your energy.
Yeah. It's five alarm fire all the time. Mm-hmm. When something doesn't go right, I got, let me read you this text. Let me just tell you what happened. And I was like, okay, well it's not maybe that big a deal, but it's not a big deal to you. It's a big deal to them, but they wanna make it a big deal to you.
Yeah. Right, right. And so that's when you're like, this really doesn't have, I'm not gonna give a lot of my energy away with this. And just being able to understand that. We can do that, that we can limit that type of understanding around, I don't have to give you this, I'm not required to give you this energy access to me, whatever it is.
Yeah.
Learning to Say No
---
Liz Herl: And again, all of this sounds, a lot of people are uncomfortable with what we're talking about because it sounds really rigid versus understanding healthy boundaries. Yeah. Or limiting your access. Well,
Tim Caldwell: you know, the, if I may, I'm just, I wanna expand on that just a little bit, not just the emotional, but I will say this, that it's tongue in cheek [00:34:00] thing.
The reason cowboys are so popular with girls is 'cause they all have pickups. I can help you move all the time. Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Okay.
Tim Caldwell: That's a very crash way of looking at things. But for instance, I'm gonna use my son Max as a mechanic. If I have mechanic work to do. I don't want to call him Max to do my mechanic work because he does mechanic work all the time.
Mm-hmm. Can you call on me? Absolutely. Can you call on me to do something other than what I specialize in all the time? Mm-hmm. I love to do chiropractic. I've always loved to do chiropractic. I love to help people. And I will do chiropractic at the drop of a hat anywhere. I love that.
But I will say there are some people who constantly want me to fix them. Mm-hmm. And I want to. And you just have to say, set up an appointment and we'll, I know you experienced this. Oh, absolutely. This is, this is I very much appreciate it. Happy to help. Let's, let's put it on the clock. Let's make sure that everything's lined out Right.
Right.
Liz Herl: And that's really, that's challenging for people to do because they feel like, oh, they're looking for that emotional connection piece. [00:35:00] And it's like, I'm making it more business transactional. Yeah. When it kind of should be business transactional. Yeah. 'cause that's, you're just trying to uphold some understanding for self there.
Tim Caldwell: But like you said. In the personal realm everyone has those people who they're dependent on others quite a bit. For their emotional support Okay, that's great. But there is a point where you, you're gonna have to say at some point. You know what, this is a lot.
Mm-hmm. Maybe we could set up a time and talk about this stuff. But tonight, I don't really have time for this i'm sorry. I don't mean to make that sound and let go, but it's, tough. No, setting up those barriers is tough. It's tough to hear.
It's tough to say.
Liz Herl: Yeah. This is all gonna be very challenging for people to do. It's understanding why you do what you would hopefully do to, have that protective. Space for yourself.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And not every invitation requires a yes is really great because yeah, there's so many times we are kind of lumped into those kind of situations.
Hey, we're all gonna get together here. We'll see you there. Or I can't make [00:36:00] it. Or, why can't you make it? What's going on? We were all planning on it. Yeah. Okay, well, I'll make it happen. And then you're just like, I don't wanna do this. Yeah. And it's like being able to kind of put that understanding. I know it's disappointing, but I'm just not gonna be able to make it.
Tim Caldwell: Or even the uh, Hey, let's go drink beer and hang out in a bar. No, thanks guys. I'm gonna pass. Oh, come on man. Why don't you, I just don't want to, and it's, it's okay. Mm-hmm. It is. Okay. Yeah. Now again, 'cause it come back on you socially, like, well we stopped calling you 'cause you don't wanna do those things.
I don't wanna do those things. Mm-hmm. But I'd love to go. Hunting, fishing, back boat, camping, all of these other things,
Liz Herl: and I'm a big believer. And you'll find your people. Mm-hmm. When you say you get less included, maybe you do, but the people that understand what you're trying to do will definitely maintain that level of inclusivity.
That's inclusivity. That's Because your time is sacred. And it isn't selfish. It's essential for you to be present and grounded and aligned in the spaces that do matter, especially for self. And you wanna represent yourself the best way you can. And if you're overwhelmed and [00:37:00] high strong and overextended, you know, you're not doing well.
And it's like, but I'm just running on flames or, well, yeah. Fumes. Yeah. Or fumes. Mm-hmm. Or flames, whichever. Mm-hmm. And think of it this way, when you say no to something misaligned, you're saying yes to your yourself, your creativity, your peace, your connection, all those things. That's right. That's right.
Like you're like, Hey, I'm not saying I'm, I'm not saying I'm saying no to you, but I'm saying yes to me. And,
Tim Caldwell: and you know what Yes. Can be Yes. Without the whole Angelina. Mm-hmm. And no could be No, not right now. I'd love to do it later. Mm-hmm. But not right now.
Liz Herl: Right.
Tim Caldwell: Well, why not? I just don't want you right now.
There's
Liz Herl: that explanation. Yeah,
Tim Caldwell: there's that explanation.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. So what are the tools and mind shifts that we need to do in order to enact all the things that we're talking about That sound really, really hard. 'cause I keep saying it's very, very hard and it will be. Mm-hmm. Before you, I use this a lot.
I know I say this I refer to this sometimes, but I use this in practice a lot. Before you say Yes, pause. [00:38:00] And ask yourself do I wanna do this? Yeah. Like, do I even wanna do this? Yeah, yeah. Do I have the energy or the bandwidth for this? Yeah. Like, do I really have that in it at my leisure and.
Honestly, what would it cost me to say yes? Yeah. Like, does it cost me time? Does it cost me not being able to attend something else that I really wanted to attend? I mean, there's a hundred different things. Mm-hmm. So you're asking yourself this versus the initial, especially when people are like, come on, I need to know.
I need to know. Are you gonna do this? Are you gonna do this? And you're like, fine. Yes, I'll do it. And then later you're like, man, I wish I could have
Tim Caldwell: paused for a second. Yeah. This is a great message for young people. It's all ages, but young people I remember dealing with young people and they always want to go, you know, I'm gonna join the uh, bowling league.
This is a perfect example. I'm gonna join the bowling league. Oh, okay. So you're gonna give up. Your practice at the Oh, yeah. I never thought about that. Well, you're gonna have to, right? You can't give, you can't take on without giving up. So the young people who want to, I'm gonna [00:39:00] bowl, I'm gonna go bowling.
We go, okay, so you're gonna be bowling. I want you to know we need to arrange transportation three times a week. We need to have. Fees. We need to know this. Oh, by the way, all your tournaments will be on Saturdays. See, this is the pause. Mm-hmm. And this is if somebody was there to just point out, okay, joining the Bowling league is now, let's say dedicated 30 hours a month.
Mm-hmm. Do you have that? Do you want to give that up? Do you wanna do that? Do you want to do that? Maybe it looks fun. I'm gonna bowl with my buddies. Okay. I'm just saying, you don't get to go bowl your buddies without practice. Mm-hmm. They're gonna expect you practice. Do you have any shoes?
No. Are you gonna rent shoes? Well, there's a price. Are they gonna buy shoes? Sure.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Yeah. I'm breaking it all down.
Tim Caldwell: I'm breaking it all down. Yeah. And, And as we get done I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you what was your answer? Yeah. What do you think? Why don't you think about it?
Liz Herl: Oh no. Generally I'm giving a scenario where people are in a state of demand.
Oh, excuse me. No one's asking you to pitch pause on this. Yeah. Normally people, we live in a state of demand in our society. [00:40:00] Oh, that's, you're right, you're right. It is now or never baby. And you better be able to be ready with a response. Or you can say, you know what? You can either wait for me to think about this or move on.
Yeah. You know, those are some other hardcore, but in being that I don't wanna sound so rigid, so when creating a no script 'cause. I know that the statement no, or the response no is a little rigid and hard and I know that sometimes people are like, I can't do that. Fair enough. I totally understand. As forward as I'm being with it, I myself am not that blunt, if you will.
I am pretty blunt, but given the circumstances, I do try and soften it and that's what I wanna talk about. Softening the no a little bit with, I'm not available for that. Mm-hmm. Or that doesn't work for me right now. Or I, I'd love to support, but I don't have the capacity for that or don't have the time or whatever.
I already have plans
Tim Caldwell: in place.
Liz Herl: Right. See, you can come up with different languages in your response. It isn't just that blunt. No. And just. Understand that in this [00:41:00] script response that I'm kind of talking about, you're probably going to get more resistance than, than the No, because the no is so blunt when you get, I'm not available for that right now.
Like, I really understand, but this really means a lot and I really, really need your help, or whatever it is. You have to be able to say, I understand that too. Yeah, but I'm really not available. Yeah, but
Tim Caldwell: so you've
Liz Herl: gotta, you double down. Yes. In
Tim Caldwell: in, in that statement you made about finding your own people, that happens.
When you're in a group that happens less and less, right. People understand that, yeah, I can rely on him, but I need to plan, and they'll approach you that way. If it is a real emergency, they'll tell them. I did check with some other people. I'm kind of a touch spot. Do you have they, their approach may be way different.
But it's still not your obligation to two in the morning come out and pick you up because your drunk ass is doing something you're not supposed to do. That's not gonna happen. I'm sorry. Call an Uber.
Liz Herl: Yeah,
Tim Caldwell: I hope everything. Okay. Hope everything works out. These, these are, obviously, examples, but I mentioned to you once before when we were kind of talking about this [00:42:00] beforehand, you get really good at this as you get older.
And when you've had people under your charge or young people, I hope people develop the skill to do that more tactfully, but also be solid about it too. Mm-hmm. Is I, I'm gonna tell you no right now and here's why. And you can do that. You're not obligated to give an answer.
But like I said, the more tactfully you can do that, it still opens the door that please ask me again in the future. But in this case, no. Mm-hmm. Now, not to undo everything we've just said. I'm just saying it's you'll get better at it. It will be difficult in the beginning, but you will get better at it.
Liz Herl: I think that in fairness to what your responses are, because again, I just said you don't owe anyone an explanation. Mm-hmm. Which I still believe to be true. However, clarification doesn't hurt. Mm-hmm. When I hear you say that, I hear you saying, I'm gonna tell you no and let me clarify as to what's going on.
And that's it. You're, you're not entertaining a further, it's almost a statement where they're, it is than an encounter, an [00:43:00] open discussion. You're
Tim Caldwell: reestablishing those boundaries.
Liz Herl: Right. And that is really important. I've shared with you earlier when we are doing pre-show notes that my daughter's often said to me, my 17-year-old mom, I wish I didn't care.
Like you don't care. And, and in the way I handle certain circumstances, and it sounds pretty hard of me, which I don't really think I'm hard, I have established really clear set boundaries of self that is. Can give the appearance of being very rigid to many others. But I understand that my intent is always with compassion and consideration.
Mm-hmm. And that's what I try and move in. I understand. Not everyone else will see it that way. That's right. And that's when I explained to her, 'cause what you just stated, I said, you know, give yourself some time. Yeah. And you'll understand why I, you know, maybe respond the way I do. And I seem so direct sometimes and I don't flower it up with a lot of, oh, I'm gonna do my best and I'm gonna figure this out because I see my 17-year-old bend [00:44:00] over backwards forward.
Social engagements and stressing her herself out to the max. And I'm like, SIS, you don't need to do all this. Yeah. But I know she's in a stage of life of learning those experiences. And so she does have to learn that to kind of make that happen. But yes, so in time, ideally this does help, but in any time in your life, all of these skill sets that we're talking about are important to establish now.
Sure.
Energy Mapping and Self-Awareness
---
Liz Herl: Another one is called energy mapping. And I know that sounds kind of.
Tim Caldwell: F fufu? Well, I
Liz Herl: guess, but it's, I'm a big believer in energy, to be honest. You can walk into a room and notice if it's gonna be a relaxed one or a stiff one for sure.
Tim Caldwell: Well, more of the skill of reading the room,
Liz Herl: correct?
Yeah. When people say read the room, not everyone can do that, by the way, so be cautious with that statement. But track when when we're thinking about energy mapping. Track your time and energy throughout the week. So what I mean by that is like highlights, you know, your pros and cons of throughout the week and what drained you the most, who drained you the most.
Mm-hmm. And those [00:45:00] repetitive interactions, what transpired, and then you set your boundaries. Against those biggest drains. Now that'll be really hard. 'cause some people are like, well, that's my mom, you know? Yeah. And it's like, I get it. How do you, especially in family dynamics, that's a much harder challenge around in, in.
Stating these boundaries because we feel so obligated and we have a lot of emotional connection in that process, but still necessary to review somatic cues. This is a big one. I think we all experience this. I know we do. And that is notice how your body reacts when you're violating one of your boundaries.
Yeah. That you're aware of. Like what happens when you say yes to something and suddenly you feel like you're. Chest tighten,
Tim Caldwell: automatic remorse.
Liz Herl: Yes. Or your jaw is like, yo, this is fun. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like this is the signup list
Tim Caldwell: for the girls, whatever. Right? Yes. Exactly. Boost booster club.
Right,
Liz Herl: right. Yeah. It is so important, this is why I align this all the time, but your body will tell you before your mind does. Yeah. And [00:46:00] it's so important that we pay attention. And of course I always follow up with this is all. Really hard. What I'm talking about inserting boundaries, understanding limiting access to yourself.
Sometimes unlearning people pleasing skills and guilt cycles and trauma patterns, all to formulate healthy boundaries. Mm-hmm. Needs guidance through. Mm-hmm. I would say finding your local. Therapists to kind of work through these processes. Absolutely, yeah, because it's a lot, this is undoing a lot of things.
So that's the next step in kind of looking at your,
The Role of Mentors and Older Adults
---
Tim Caldwell: and, you know, I'm always, I'm very much in favor, find yourself a mentor. Mm-hmm. Find some, find some older adults. Run questions. Pass them in scenarios. Older folks, not only do they need. The comradery and the companionship, they're just dying to pass on some wisdom.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Well, it's a great place to find those types of answers. What should I do when people ask me this and what should I do in business and what should I do in this
Liz Herl: True enough? And I think there, you'll find depending on the age. You'll find that [00:47:00] rigid response, right? You'll find that, well, this is how you're gonna do this.
And it's like, okay, well I can't do it just like that. Like it's, that's where you kind of pull back like, well Grandpa, I can't really do it like that. And he's like, yeah, you can. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: And, there in that supports my position on, as you get older. It gets easier because not only have you done it, but you'll find that generational gap we didn't have time to mess around with this stuff.
That's another thing. I have eight hours of this. I have four hours of this. I gotta milk the cows. I gotta feed the chickens. I gotta, so their level of organization was ding, ding, ding. Mine is on a personal level. I was raised in a military home. I was in the military.
Love the military. I love that type of discipline and things happen. Ding, ding, ding. Mm-hmm. And it's nice because it. It really, I feel like a well-trained dog, right? I'm not going crazy and running around and what am I gonna do?
Liz Herl: Sure. I
Tim Caldwell: feel like I have things under control. Some people I don't understand that
Liz Herl: Sure.
Dare say with all of our upbringings, there's pros and cons. Sure. [00:48:00] Because that could give the appearance of being too rigid yet again. Sure. Because that black and white view is always. Everyone's view. Yeah.
Final Thoughts on Protecting Access to Yourself
---
Liz Herl: Now, my final thoughts are this, protecting access to yourself isn't a one time decision. It's a daily practice and you were guaranteed to mess up and go back into the same cycles and same responses that you've done before, you'll say yes when you mean to say no, you'll feel the guilt.
And all of that is really understandable, especially when you're trying to start something very new. But with time. Mm-hmm. If you are repetitive with this understanding mm-hmm. And a healthy understanding at that, you'll start to feel something even stronger than guilt. And I believe that's like the freedom of self.
Mm-hmm. Like this feels a lot lighter. Mm-hmm. This feels less heavy. It does. And you'll reclaim your time to yourself without guilt. You'll find your peace, you'll feel your body, you'll have a sense of awareness of self. And from that place you'll have. Much more time to give to the right people at the right [00:49:00] time in.
It can be right now whenever, but I think it's important in the right way, that you give
Tim Caldwell: your time to people. Sure. You'll be able to offer up a more enthusiastic you, a more energetic you, a more voluntary, voluntary portion of you. I have made the analogy in the past, this comes from one of my commanders on one of my ships, is that Caldwell, at some point in your life, you're gonna be a float.
And this is all, this is all very much a make believe scenario, but you'll be a float at sea and all of the people in your raft you are responsible for. You need to try to save as many as you can. There will be people onboard trying to help. There will be people hanging on the sides, dragging you down, and there will actually be people in your raft poking holes.
Liz Herl: Sure, sure enough. Make, make
Tim Caldwell: the assessment. Who's doing what? Do the very best you can, and. You can't allow some things to happen in your life. Don't let people poke holes in your life.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: And this is part of being strong about just it's okay to say no.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: If [00:50:00] you wanna volunteer an explanation, fine.
But don't get roped into the thing where I have to explain myself all the time. Just say I'm not available.
Liz Herl: And it, and again, it's hard. So what I would ask our listeners is to ask yourself who gets access to you and why. Mm-hmm. They have so much access to you, and as I started this episode, I said that, you know, boundaries are not walls.
They are doors. And you hold the keys to the locks of these doors and maybe it's time you change the locks on those doors.
Tim Caldwell: Excellent point,
Liz Herl: Liz. And so that's kind of. My great topic ideas in a nutshell.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, great topic. I'm glad we talk about stuff like this and that's my industry, as yours overlaps, you get to speak to people on their mental, spiritual health.
I hope mine folds over because I think they're all intertwined. However, we at some point need to be able to say. There's only so many hours in a day. Mm-hmm. And we have to take care of ourselves and a hundred percent my kids need me. Mm-hmm. I can't be broken. My [00:51:00] elderly parents need me. I can't be broken.
I enjoy my job, but my job isn't my life. I realize I'm important, but I need to be able to say no too. Mm-hmm. Just stand up for what you believe is important and do your very best to be as honest as you can in this scenario and let it go.
Liz Herl: Very good. Very good.
Conclusion and Call to Action
---
Liz Herl: Well, I would ask our listeners always to go into our social medias like and subscribe.
That always helps us out, very much so.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And hop on over to genuine effort llc.com to look at Dr. Caldwell's Jim, opportunity and options there to look at your physical health.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Appreciate that, Liz. Thank you. It's always great to be here.
Liz Herl: Alright, well thanks everyone. Take care of yourselves.
Peace guys. Remember peace
Tim Caldwell: guys. Take care of yourself. Bye-bye. [00:52:00]