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Laces Out Loud is an NWSL and women’s soccer podcast about the game on the field and the forces shaping it off the field. The show blends match analysis, supporter passion, and bigger-picture conversations about player welfare, league growth, media coverage, business, technology, and soccer culture. We are here for the goals, the tactics, and the chaos - but also for the questions that determine whether the women’s game can grow with the ambition, care, and investment it deserves.
It really struck me as as special and descriptive of everything we are trying to support in women's soccer. Welcome back listeners to another episode of Laces Out Loud. I am of course, Pammatha, and I am joined by Guruschabad.
Gurushabd:What's up everybody?
Pamitha:We have just finished week 20 of the NWSL season, it is still living up to the hype. And other than a bunch of great soccer this weekend, what have you been up to, Gudershaben?
Gurushabd:You know, I was driving around Bellingham, and I had to wait for a T Rex statue being pushed down the street before I could turn.
Pamitha:Why?
Gurushabd:Yeah, just giant T Rex on wheels, you know, four guys pushing it down the street. Very Bellingham, not surprising to see here. Pretty quirky town.
Pamitha:Interesting. Is is that is that a is that a phrase people are familiar with? Like, oh, that's just so Bellingham.
Gurushabd:It's one Matt and I use a lot, I'm not sure if other people do, as transplants here, there's a lot of things that we find odd here Okay. That's very Bellingham.
Pamitha:Other examples other than, like, a dinosaur statue being pushed down the street? Also, love that it was pushed as opposed to like towed.
Gurushabd:Just on wheels, let's go.
Pamitha:Oh my gosh.
Gurushabd:You know, people here, I think they can be a little overly friendly, and when you're crossing the street, there might be just one car coming. They will stop for you to cross the street, not at a crosswalk. And we're like, If you just move along, there's no other cars around. It was just you. You can go, and then we'll cross.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:But So we might kind of able Bellingham a lot.
Pamitha:I don't know if there's a clean transition away from Dino pushing it on a road in week 20.
Gurushabd:Never is.
Pamitha:How about we will we will uncover the secrets of week 20 as we dig into the standing, standing, standing. The top eight has remains the same, although we have seen a little bit of movement. Who has who has fallen and who has risen?
Gurushabd:Some movement, but you can't kick Seattle out of that eight.
Pamitha:Heck yeah.
Gurushabd:North North Carolina took Utah's spot at number three, pushed them down. Washington spot.
Pamitha:And we'll get to it, but Washington, with a landmark victory against Portland, dropped the Thorns down to the sixth spot. So our our top eight for the NWSL at the moment, despite the loss, Gotham FC remains in the number one spot. Washington comes in at two. North Carolina making a hard charge at three. Utah with a dropped a game to Boston, they're at four.
Pamitha:San Diego dropped a game to Seattle at five. Portland at six. Kansas City, big win against Bay coming in at seven. And Seattle holding up the rear, certainly, I mean, tied in points with Angel City and Denver. Was that correct?
Gurushabd:No. No. We are Two points. 34 points, so we're ahead by two to Angel City.
Pamitha:There you go. Sorry about that. So there's no tiebreakers involved yet at the eighth spot.
Gurushabd:Yeah. But Angel City is right on our heels.
Pamitha:Yeah. Think we you talked about the we talked about the top 12 being in play. Houston and Orlando still lagging, even though Orlando had a victory, but Angel City and Denver. Man, Denver. Well, we're gonna get to them too.
Pamitha:At ten, they're a strong 10. Our apologies go out to Orlando, Houston, racing Boston Bay, and Chicago, who still has a team as of this recording. But you know what we do know? Ashley Sanchez is amazing. I wish Allie were here to be gloating because she has been on the Ashley Sanchez train forever, as was I, we still own Spirit Gear with Ashley Sanchez stuff, that's gonna clearly be going up in value.
Pamitha:Don't worry, they will not make its way on eBay, we're gonna hold on to that stuff forever. Ashley Sanchez
Gurushabd:Yeah.
Pamitha:Now officially, most goals scored in the NWSL by an American. And I gotta tell you, I think she's got the Yeah. Overall record in her sights. Hat trick. Insane.
Pamitha:Hat trick against Chicago, just absolutely imposing her will on the league. Remarkable. And I'm gonna say this, she's only now getting the recognition that she she deserves, which long overdue. But Yeah. In past seasons, equally dominant performances by other players seem to have been celebrated more.
Pamitha:I don't know why. Mhmm. Mhmm. So here, we're gonna give Ashley Sanchez all the love we possibly can.
Gurushabd:Yeah. And I think we have to go into her history to really show just what she's fought for to get here. Like, this isn't just Made. Like, her emotional strength to get to here, she was benched in the World Cup that no one wants to remember. She was on the roster, didn't play.
Pamitha:Was told that she was not going to play.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Beforehand. It's like, we needed to switch something up.
Pamitha:Yeah. All I know is the person who told her that doesn't have a job anymore. She's doing great.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Yeah. She's doing great.
Pamitha:Then No sour grapes. Sorry, go ahead.
Gurushabd:Traded from the spirit, which she probably didn't want.
Pamitha:No. And none of us wanted. That was a surprise, and I think at the time we thought, well, we have Kroy, and then we lost Kroy, and it's like, oh, man. Like, I I It was at a different time in spirit ownership and management, but boy, I wish A Trinity Rodman, Ashley Sanchez Oh. I mean, we wouldn't be talking about Gotham anymore.
Gurushabd:Oh well. I think, yeah.
Pamitha:Can't cry over Skilled Sanchez.
Gurushabd:But yeah, people start to see someone's success, they're like, okay, yeah, of course. But no, she's gone through a lot to get here.
Pamitha:Yeah, absolutely. And I also, this game was away at Chicago, I said this in an earlier podcast. I think it's remarkable what North Carolina has done. Obviously, have been a part of this league forever. They are a standard bear, winningest franchise in the NWSL.
Pamitha:That said, as you've seen other teams, either play games in larger stadiums, build newer stadiums, come onto the scene, they have been a constant. Their fan engagement is amazing. The product they put down in the field is amazing. I, you know, I know they have a first year coach, and they we talked about them bringing in international talent last week. Watch North Carolina, like, they may be priming themselves for another dynastic run.
Pamitha:Much to the chagrin of those of us here in Washington, but I you gotta give them credit where credit is due. It's it's really remarkable. And if anyone has an opportunity to go to Cary, North Carolina, this tiny, tiny town in North Carolina, and watch a North Carolina Courage game, do it. You will not be disappointed. They know how to bring it.
Pamitha:It's fantastic. And six nothing against Chicago, the league's on notice.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. Someday we'll get to a few more games, hit all the stadiums. I know that's one of our goals.
Pamitha:Yeah. We'll get there. We're slowly getting there. So, you know, speaking of goals, we have plenty, and North Carolina scored plenty, but if I told you going into this week that Chicago and Gotham would score the same number of goals, what would you have told me?
Gurushabd:No. No way. Yeah. Gotham not scoring?
Pamitha:Yep, that's exactly Gotham where we find didn't just not score, they got pushed around by a Denver Summit team hanging three goals, three impressive goals on Anne Katrien Berger, the Burginator, and Gotham FC. The lead leaders, Gotham FC. I I think you had shared a stat about Anne Katrien Berger?
Gurushabd:Oh, yeah. Once that game ended, I googled when was the last time she gave up three goals, and the internet had nothing for me. They're like, that doesn't happen. So no one scores three goals on AKB, the Bergenator.
Pamitha:It's more likely that she scores three goals than gives up three goals.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Yeah. It's insane. Right when I thought Gotham was about to, like, have a push, Sam Kerr was gonna have chances, they maybe had a little blip, and then Denver just came at them for minutes on end. Like, no, they couldn't get any rhythm going.
Pamitha:No, they really couldn't. I was jokingly wondering whether someone was gonna blame the altitude, because, you know
Gurushabd:And the heat. They were blaming the heat on the announcers.
Pamitha:That may be part of the blame for this match, but what's the excuse for Denver sweeping the season series? Mhmm. You know? Yeah. Yeah.
Pamitha:It's Yeah. Look, this is not necessarily like a warning sign for Gotham. I don't I think they have a get well match against racing coming up, but like, this says more about Denver than Gotham, I think. Right?
Gurushabd:Yeah. Yeah. Denver is showing us who they are and who they're going to be. And I know Tobin Heath has said, you know, they're gonna win the championship pretty soon. She's just waiting for it.
Pamitha:She is she on record as saying that the Summit is gonna win the championship soon?
Gurushabd:Not not this season, but, like, soon. With the coach they have, the way they're going, their infrastructure, she's like, Denver Summit, they're gonna be a top team soon.
Pamitha:Yeah, I I mean, it's very hard for me to find reason to disagree with Tobin Heath on anything. One of the most brilliant soccer minds of our generation, I don't think she gets enough credit for that. So I will graciously accept her interpretation and be interested to see if that happens. I also say, I'm not surprised. The investment that the city has made into the team, the commitment that ownership has made to the fans and players, it's precisely the kind of thing you want to see in sports organizations that are are healthy and are likely to succeed.
Pamitha:So good on them. Glad that there's glad that they are going to continue to provide a challenging competition for the Washington spirit and others in the league, because nobody wants pushovers. Nobody wants teams that just don't belong.
Gurushabd:Yeah. And I remember talking to our casual FC fans that they're, like, Angel City as expansion team. They seem to be going for vibes, and maybe BayFC was trying to go for more, like, talent. Denver is getting both right at the same time.
Pamitha:That is such a Which great
Gurushabd:I find impressive.
Pamitha:That is such a great point. And, you know, actually, I think there may be a third category. So there's vibes, totally get that. Acquisition of talent, totally get that, because you want to generate, like, buzz and interest and get people, like, showing up on the pitch. I think Denver is focused on winning.
Pamitha:I think that's their that's their focus. They're like, if we win, the vibes will come. If we develop a winning culture, the players will come. Right? So they're not just gonna go out we may have talked about this on the podcast, we've definitely talked about it off the podcast, that Denver's roster construction felt like, oh, are they leaving things on the floor?
Pamitha:Right? Like, they bring in Lindsey heaps, but they're not going after other players that we thought would be, you know, certain certainties. They didn't. They clearly knew what they were doing.
Gurushabd:Yeah. And they might be getting an Emma Sears soon.
Pamitha:And they might be getting an Emma Sears soon. I you know, we'll we'll briefly touch on Angel City taking racing out two nothing, in a heartbreaking fashion again. Watching Emma Sears' face in that match, she's done. She's done. I think it like, the only reason she's even lacing up the play is because she's a professional, and she's handling herself like a professional.
Pamitha:But, boy, if like, she she's she's doesn't wanna be there anymore.
Gurushabd:Yeah. No.
Pamitha:Yeah. Well, I think Gotham, And they have that get well game against racing coming up, so we'll see how that goes. Thank you. Yeah. Don't mean to
Gurushabd:be for drop to them.
Pamitha:If they do, we got something to talk about. I got I got something to talk about. What would you say if I told you history was made in Portland, Oregon and had nothing to do with the team from Portland? I don't know about you, but I'd say woo hoo.
Gurushabd:I'd like to know what that is.
Pamitha:Oh, man. So, the Washington spirit have a long and storied history of losing to Portland, and the Portland Thorns in Portland. This Washington went in, we walked away with a two one victory, we'll get into the victory in a second, but it was the first time the team had ever won in Portland. That's remarkable. Wow.
Pamitha:That's absolutely remarkable. And the game winning goal struck by Melissa Betty, the Algerian national player in her very first start. And it was I don't know if you saw it, it was gorgeous. It was great great build up. Paige Mateer, Trinity Rodman crossed into the box, and she buried it low corner past the diving goalie, like, just beautiful.
Gurushabd:It's a beautiful team setup and finish. Yeah.
Pamitha:Yes. And and I will tell you, if you watch the first half of that game, there was zero indication that Washington had that quality in them. We looked totally outmatched, in in up to and including the first minute of the second half, when Portland nearly scored, a their second goal, and it went off the post. But instead
Gurushabd:Oh, yeah.
Pamitha:Oh, it was it was it it was just like, oh, great, we're we're clearly gonna lose this match. So that's how it felt watching this game. No substitutions at half either, which I think a lot of us expected there would be at least one or two substitutions at half. So, once again, we don't know what Adrian Gonzalez knows, and we we trust the process because the results speak for themselves. But for a very soft penalty given up in the first half, Washington dominated Portland, and and and I think that we we will lose sight of that based on the way the game actually came, like, played out.
Pamitha:But that second half, it it wasn't so much of a back and forth. It was Portland holding on for dear life. They had a couple of opportunities here and there, but Washington had consistent pressure, consistent movement, playing the ball well, keeping possession well. The equalizing goal scored on our own penalty was a absolute penalty against Sofia Cantore. Tara Rudd stepped up, former striker as she is, buried it, no question.
Pamitha:And then Bethy with the game winner. It's remarkable. The the sense of spirit fans was this is the game that decides the shield race. If we lost, if because if Washington lost, even if Gotham even with Gotham losing, right, With Washington if Washington had lost, we'd still be five points down.
Gurushabd:Right? Right.
Pamitha:The fact that we were able
Gurushabd:Two to points, one game.
Pamitha:Absolutely. And so now, we've got now everything still to play for, and the pressure's on Gotham, Right? So that was huge for Washington, very historic. Jed Bartlett on line two, Parmitha, there's no such thing as very historic, it's just historic. West Wing fans will get that reference.
Pamitha:My apologies to Sam Seaborne. Historic win, historic goal, snapping the Portland Thorns 13 game win streak. I do not wanna celebrate too soon because Portland is still a very good team, But I did say, last week, if there was a team I could see that I didn't trust dropping out of that top eight, I said I didn't trust Portland, and I can't really explain why. I still can't explain why, but I don't really trust Portland. So Denver, do your thing, Angel City, do your thing, Portland, prove me wrong.
Gurushabd:I know Portland, they've got Chicago next, so
Pamitha:Well, it's a win.
Gurushabd:They should be picking up some more points.
Pamitha:Yeah, so just like Gotham, watch this space. If they, if the get well game against Chicago doesn't go well for Portland, we'll see what And
Gurushabd:Portland, what a great town with great morals. And I just have to point out, there was a hate group that came to the stadium. And Portland Thorns, the, you know, stadium security, it sounds like they calmly went up to them and said, you know, you can cover up your shirts or you can leave. And the group chose to just leave quietly and leave. And there's been some other instances in the WNBA and times where someone reacts very, reactionary and, Departurely.
Gurushabd:You know, they're blood Yeah, seeing that group there, which to me is understandable. It gets me riled up. But, yeah, Portland, they didn't allow them to stay. They didn't give them any attention. They're just like, cover up or leave.
Gurushabd:And it wasn't up to the fans. The stadium just took care of it. It's against their code of, you know, conduct.
Pamitha:Yeah. There's no room for hate in this or really anything in civil society. And to your point, the fact that this was matter of fact, like, okay, you're out, you're very calm, like, these are the choices, you have to leave if you aren't gonna comply.
Gurushabd:Mhmm.
Pamitha:That is that to me also represents a greater victory than if there was more uproar and uprising. There was something at
Gurushabd:a Mhmm.
Pamitha:There was something similar at a spirit game last season, and it was not handled as well. And there was a lot of angry anger and shouting and a lot of performance. That's not what that's not what we need. Right? This is like this is clinical.
Pamitha:This is a clinical removal of a cancer. That's what this was. Mhmm. Absolutely agree with you. Good on Portland.
Gurushabd:Just squash it Squash it before it becomes a spectacle.
Pamitha:Yeah. Absolutely.
Gurushabd:That's what they want. That's what they're there for. So if we don't give them that, hopefully they'll go away soon.
Pamitha:Yeah. Absolutely. Drop a comment if you also hate hate and love love. Yes. Speaking of love, I got to give a lot of flowers, as the kids say, to Jen Hildreth, who is the play by play announcer for your Seattle reign when they were taking on San Diego.
Pamitha:I've not heard this, sound bite of, an announcer during kickoff, and I thought this was so remarkable that I want to steal it, and I want to incorporate it into the stuff that we do. When they at the time of kickoff, Jen Hildreth goes, let's love the game from Loom And Field. And I thought, wow, what a what a beautiful way to start a match. Right? Like, it really struck me as as special and descriptive of everything we are trying to support in women's soccer.
Pamitha:Right?
Gurushabd:Yeah. It's a great line.
Pamitha:It had the added Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
Gurushabd:Yeah. No. She yeah. It's beautiful. She came up with a little gem.
Pamitha:Yeah. And, you know, it for you, it had also the benefit of preceding a Seattle rain victory against San Diego, Seattle taking it one nothing.
Gurushabd:Oh. That one felt so good.
Pamitha:Right? Like, yeah, I go
Gurushabd:I was upset. I had to choose between going outside in our beautiful summer day to the lake and going swimming or watching the game, and I chose the lake and the sunshine hoping I could watch the game later. I can't find where to watch a replay of that game. So I just got the highlights. You know, once we get our fall dreary rainy P and W weather, I'll be more inclined to stay in and watch more games.
Gurushabd:But I did miss that one.
Pamitha:That's okay. You know who else missed that one? Mimi Van Zanten. Yes.
Gurushabd:Burn.
Pamitha:Burn. Sorry, not sorry for a very obvious red card, Mercedes. Really early in that match, though. Right? And and from the highlights that you saw
Gurushabd:Early on.
Pamitha:Yeah, really early on. From the highlights that you saw, and I and I I watched some of the game, I'm interested in your take on this, right? Like, it felt like with more than seventy minutes of time left, with Seattle up a player, that they would have controlled the game a little bit more than they did, the goal they scored? Wow. Mwah.
Pamitha:Chef's kiss, beautiful header. Right? Like, that was that's a goal you should be proud of. I would have expected more. What do you think?
Gurushabd:Yeah. I was surprised San Diego had a lot of chances. They were still playing really well. They just didn't finish. On top of that, Seattle has continued to attack though.
Gurushabd:Last season, we had so much just defensive play and then playing out of that. And this season, we're really attacking the ball. We're taking more shots. And Laura Harvey has really had us change our game, which I like. It's more exciting.
Gurushabd:We're getting more chances, hence more goals. Yeah. But, yeah, San Diego, they did well a player down.
Pamitha:I also wanna, nod to the, Maddie Maddie squared connection, the Delian to Mercado goal. I forgot how the announcers described it. It might have been Maddie to Maddie or Eminem, but there's just so many opportunities. I hope some some marketing wizard somewhere in Seattle should be taking advantage of this.
Gurushabd:Oh, they should be. I've seen a few things, yeah, Maddie to Maddie on Instagram, on reels with that goal.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:But I could do more with that.
Pamitha:And I I know that someone had said something that the the Waver, a team that people really enjoy watching, like, play, like, a like, a good brand of soccer, and so I feel like they're you know, we you we had may not have spoken about this, but I think I'd seen an article somewhere about Loud Milla being one of the underperforming players this season, just based on what expected value is. Mhmm. And, you know, San Diego, like, clearly still in the top eight, but do they inspire the same degree of confidence that maybe some of the other teams do? I think there was an expectation coming into this season that they would be better than they are. I don't necessarily think that's paid out, but I don't know, we'll see.
Pamitha:Like, games left, right?
Gurushabd:Yeah. I was expecting more from San Diego. At the beginning of the season, their roster and kinda how they were playing, I was like, Oh, they're a Shields contender.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:They've, yeah, dropped to the, you know, fifth place. They're kinda not showing up to what we thought they would, and I thought Loud Milla would have a lot more goals by now. That was my prediction.
Pamitha:Yeah. Well, as you know, every prediction I've made has gone great, so don't feel you should feel bad that your predictions are going poorly. Yikes. Okay. Horrible.
Pamitha:Let's not look at racing's record. But great. Yeah. I I I agree with you, and we'll see. I think I think there's still a lot of soccer to play.
Pamitha:I don't have the San Diego's rest of the way in front of me, but tough to go down a player early on and still come away with something. The fact that I think they only end up losing one nothing, if there's any such thing as a moral victory, let this be a moral victory. Oh,
Gurushabd:I have the schedule up.
Pamitha:Oh, go
Gurushabd:ahead. On Saturday. Saturday, we have a San Diego Wave North Carolina Courage matchup.
Pamitha:Oh, wow. Okay. Is that in San Diego or in North Carolina?
Gurushabd:That's in San Diego, it looks like.
Pamitha:Okay. Okay. Alright. So North Carolina on a back to back road trip, going east to west, it's gonna be tough. That's gonna be a good one to watch, everybody.
Pamitha:Gonna tell us a lot about both teams.
Gurushabd:Oh, I got the tingles. It's from Eagle, North Carolina.
Pamitha:That's great. I love it. Well, there's a couple of other games that we sort of were tracking this past week. Boston two, Utah one, surprising to see Utah drop. Boston has sort of snuck up on some of the better teams, maybe playing playing up to their competition, maybe the opponents playing down to their competition.
Pamitha:Do you have any takeaways from that game?
Gurushabd:I was surprised, just Utah was a step off, pretty much the whole game.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:And they were at home. So yeah, I was just wondering what was happening there. Was just like the whole game, they were like, a step behind us. Like, just get up to speed here.
Pamitha:Yeah. Sometimes things are indicative of something larger. I don't know if this is one of those, I think Utah's over performed expectations, but I think that they are deservedly in the fourth spot, right? So we'll see what happens, we'll see what continues to happen there. Kansas City, they broke Bay FC's heart two to one.
Pamitha:Cory Bethune making some history, setting the tying the single season assist record to 10. Cory Bethune, she's just everywhere all at once. It's pretty remarkable. Any any
Gurushabd:She's so good.
Pamitha:Yeah, she is so good. We've obviously got a lot of KCNs to talk about, but anything else from the game that you I took
Gurushabd:mean, Bay just losing at the last you know, the end of the game. It was crushing. I felt so bad for them. Yeah. Because they actually played well.
Pamitha:They did.
Gurushabd:Like, they plays well. They have good players. They just don't win right now.
Pamitha:Yeah. So Yeah.
Gurushabd:They'll they're young. They'll get it together. But, yeah, that Cory Bethune pass, like, picking her out was amazing. Oh, and what? We had an Olympic o goal off the quarter kick.
Gurushabd:Like, what an amazing goal.
Pamitha:That's why we tune in Goal of the week.
Gurushabd:Goal of the week.
Pamitha:Oh, I I like pass I pass it through. Can I please have Sandy McKeever for save of the week?
Gurushabd:Yeah. Yeah. That you're talking about the one where she got the close one, and then quickly got to the other side of the goal for She her second
Pamitha:flew through the air with the greatest of ease at Saint Emmacuse.
Gurushabd:And then how did she get there?
Pamitha:Yeah, no. She's she's been our stonewall. Angel City two Racing Zero, what can we say about racing that we haven't already said this episode and past episodes? Feel really bad for racing. Really bad for racing.
Gurushabd:At Angel City, they looked good.
Pamitha:You know, can I say, I don't know, like, I thought racing looked like the better team for almost the entire match? And then Oh, yeah. And then they had two goals that they gave up, on transitions, right? And I thought I thought both goals could have been stopped. I think they were great shots, great angles, but I feel like it was poor defensive positioning and a little poor positioning by the goalie, or like a lack of concentration.
Pamitha:Mhmm. Because like, they good I don't wanna take anything away from Angel City in that regard, but I don't feel like they were blowing the doors off. Right? That's just me.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Yeah. Know. Yeah. I know we disagree on that one.
Gurushabd:We chatted about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No.
Gurushabd:We can disagree just because Shor's her release is so quick.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:It's kind of hard to see the shot coming versus her taking another step.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Yeah. And just her placement, the pace on the ball, they were
Pamitha:Yeah, in quality they're absolutely right. You're right. You're right. I'm sorry. You're right.
Gurushabd:But but yeah, I mean, but no, if the goalie, yeah, was in a different spot.
Pamitha:I just feel
Gurushabd:like But it's hard to know she was gonna take those shots. It was not apparent that she was gonna release those.
Pamitha:Yeah. And you know who you know who also didn't realize that she was gonna release those shots? The Louisville defense. Right? That's that's the sort of the thing, right?
Pamitha:Like but anyway, again, don't wanna take anything away from Angel City in that regard, I thought they deservedly won, but and then finally, Orlando Houston, Orlando three, Houston Uno. I guess that's what you expect, you expect an Orlando team that's gonna fight tooth and nail to to to get in, and I don't really have much to say about Houston or this match.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Not too much about them yet, you know?
Pamitha:Well
Gurushabd:Sorry, guys.
Pamitha:Oh, we're heading into week 21. It's gonna be really exciting, as all of these games have been. I would love to see a little bit more consistency in officiating still. I think you had you had some thoughts about the officiating this past week.
Gurushabd:Yeah. There were a few calls that ended up being cards or penalties that were not called during play. One of them was the Mimi Van Zatten red card, which I thought was a pretty obvious foul. And then I'm trying to remember if the penalty for spirit was called during play, or if it was after. One of those PKs was not called during play.
Pamitha:It was after. Yeah. Yeah. It was after to the
Gurushabd:point where people Pretty weren't apparent.
Pamitha:Yeah, and it was a p it was a people weren't even sure which file they were reviewing. That's how much after, so Yeah. I agree.
Gurushabd:And I was just like, is this something where they're just missing these files? Or are they kinda continuing play and waiting for VAR to, you know, kinda alert them in their headset?
Pamitha:Yeah. I really hope this isn't, like, one of those situations that we see with off size where they let people go until they throw the flag up. We've talked about this before, proreferees.com. They have a series called Inside Video Review that goes through the past week's VAR decisions, and actually lets you listen into the conversations happening between the VAR officials and the on field officials. So as of this recording, the NWSL week twenty video is not out.
Pamitha:But if you're listening to this on Wednesday, I would encourage you we would encourage you, go check out proreferees.com, and take a listen. It's it's yeah. It's it's a pretty cool series. I'm glad that they do that.
Gurushabd:Yeah, it's good to hear what they're talking about, because sometimes I still don't agree with the conclusion they come to.
Pamitha:Yes.
Gurushabd:But there was the other one we were talking about, did Spirit have a handball in the box? Yes. Which didn't get reviewed, missed, and kind of, are handball rules fuzzy now? You know, if the hand is away from your body, is it always a handball if met or not? I thought that was the rule.
Gurushabd:Yeah. But who knows?
Pamitha:Yeah, if anyone wonders if I'm just like a diehard homer, I thought as soon as that happened, I thought, oh handball, oh no, that's a PK. And even the slow mo review, I was confused because it clearly hit the the shot clearly hit Tara Rudd in the arm, in the hand. Now, the only thing I could say is it's not like she stuck the arm out to stop it, her arm was where it was when the ball was but it's not like it was close into her body, it was still like, sort of like, at her sides. I think the determination was that it was still in a natural position. I don't know, I think I think it was a handball, I'm glad it wasn't called, especially since the PK awarded in the first half felt so soft on the yellow card to Monique and Goc.
Pamitha:So karma adjusting, I suppose.
Gurushabd:Yeah. But, boo. Yeah. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on that one.
Pamitha:Yes. And
Gurushabd:what they think is a handball and what isn't. So let us know.
Pamitha:Anything else happening? No other big news, right? Nothing for former national team coaches and head coaches and randos with
Gurushabd:There's more surprising news coming out, right? More firings.
Pamitha:More? Well, don't know if this was a firing.
Gurushabd:Or ah, right, that's true. Suspected, but we don't know.
Pamitha:Yeah. So for those of you who have not heard, Vladko Anunowski has been relieved of his duties as sporting director for the Kansas City Current. His title might be longer than that, but that's what we're paraphrasing it to. Yeah. I gotta tell you, I didn't see this coming either.
Pamitha:I don't understand what's going on. I really don't understand what's going on after you see the reaction from the Kansas City current players.
Gurushabd:Mhmm.
Pamitha:And I really don't understand what's going on after two years of the league and pop culture in general propping Kansas City up as a model franchise. This seems very strangely timed. I'm I I don't know if it was mutual. Did I I Was the reporting that it was mutual?
Gurushabd:Yeah, that was the reporting. But, you know, that's political, you know, just who knows what actually happened? Maybe one day we'll find out. Like, did he just want a different role? Does he wanna go back to coaching?
Gurushabd:Or did they just let him go Yeah. Towards the end of the season, which would be crazy. Because Casey Current loves him, as he said, the players. I thought the organization did. So it'll be interesting if we see him take up one of these open coaching positions in another city.
Pamitha:Here's here's the four line press release from the Kansas City Current. The Kansas City Current announced today, 09/07/2026, that it has mutually parted ways with sporting director Vladko Anunowski. Both parties determined that Anunowski's requested transition from coaching into the sporting director role at the end of last season was not the right fit. Andinowski joined the KC Current's technical staff as head coach for the 2024 season and then sought the move to sporting director in November 2025. The Kansas City Current wishes Andinowski well in his future endeavors.
Pamitha:I think that is a that is a damning press release. I think the the attempt to absolve the team of any culpability with the way this is worded is so obvious. The not the the right fit and saying that he requested the transition and sought the move, it's it reads very negative, which in some ways, maybe why the players are rushing to his defense.
Gurushabd:Right? Yeah. Yeah. That yeah. I I but it's There are also some very nice things, and, like, how could we lose him?
Pamitha:This is such a head start.
Gurushabd:Know how they picked, you know, Chris Armas as their coach, a lot of people are pretty upset with that Vlatko was left out of that conversation, and some guy just told the Longs to pick this guy. Like, fans aren't really happy.
Pamitha:Yeah. So I I this is why I'm very intrigued about what this means for the league and the sport. Right? They have they the league and the sport have embraced Kansas City as its favored child. That is Mhmm.
Pamitha:You can't argue that. Just saying like they've embraced Gotham, right? Don't read this as sour grapes about Washington, right? Like I like, you know, I get it. I understand why the the league and the team have done what they've done.
Pamitha:But now, it's on them when things go sideways too. Right? So I don't none of this makes sense to me that in terms of timing. The only thing I can think of, Guruschabad, is that like, maybe the team wants to make a personnel move, and as sporting director, he was opposed to it. And that before the next shoe drops the next couple of weeks, they had to get rid of him first.
Pamitha:But I
Gurushabd:don't know. Yeah.
Pamitha:Because like, what's what is the reason to get rid of us? Like same thing with Orlando. Yeah, they'll make least with Orlando, you could say, maybe performance, right? Like, short term like, short term versus long term, like, that's a bad decision?
Gurushabd:Yeah. This yeah, Orlando getting rid of Seb still baffles me.
Pamitha:Yes.
Gurushabd:But, yeah, I don't know, maybe there was a, yeah, power struggle, and Vladko was like, no, I wanna go in a different direction, and they were
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Didn't trust him with that. That's kind of how this is reading.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:That it wasn't his choice.
Pamitha:The records speak for themselves. Like, he clearly is a good coach. Right? Is he the best coach of all time? I don't know.
Pamitha:I don't know about that. But, like, one would imagine if he wants to coach again, he'll get a job somewhere.
Gurushabd:Definitely. Definitely. So, people are saying, maybe we'll see him in Orlando.
Pamitha:Well, as I said last week would
Gurushabd:be hilarious.
Pamitha:It would be hilarious, but it would be, think to me, again, very disappointing, right? I said this last week, and I maintain this, right? If if the NWSL truly wants to be the, like, culture setting league that it has the potential to be, give female coaches a chance to step into these roles, give female sporting directors a chance to step into these roles, right? Like, or even non traditional candidates, right? Like, don't just recycle people that have been there, done that, and have a have a a just an okay record, right?
Pamitha:Like, let's give some more people an opportunity. I'm just sorry. That that's not that's not actually the point, like, think Laco will get a coaching job somewhere, but like, if if I were running a team, which I'm not, but like, if I were, I would wanna bring in someone new.
Gurushabd:Yeah, they're there. Like, the female coaches are there, just hire Yeah,
Pamitha:absolutely.
Gurushabd:It's not a handout, it's not charity, they have the talent. Just hire one.
Pamitha:Becky Sauerbrunn, on hold, like, Portland Portland giving her the technical adviser role instead of a head instead of a coaching role, like, she's doing the right thing the way she's presenting it. The rest of us could say what we should be, give her a coaching job, come on. Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah.
Pamitha:It's Becky Sauerbrunn. If Tobin Heath wants to coach my team, Tobin Heath is gonna coach the team. Right? Like, how do you not bring these, like, brilliant minds in women's soccer and put them in positions where they're able to shape the future of the sport and the success of your club. Alright.
Pamitha:I'm okay. I'll find I'll
Gurushabd:True. Snaps.
Pamitha:This is thank you. This has been Pammet That Tells Billionaires How to Spend Their Money. And now, this. Gurusova, you've also been tracking, other goings on in women's soccer. There's another international tournament happening.
Gurushabd:Yeah. So the U20 Women's World Cup is happening right now in Poland, And since it's not during an international break, some NWSL teams decided to keep their players at home. I should have come up with a list of who those are. I do know, is it Adamis for Seattle is at the World Cup? We let her go play, and it just got us thinking.
Gurushabd:I wonder where players would prefer to go for their career. Would they prefer to go play in this u twenty World Cup, or stay at their club team and make a splash here? And I don't know.
Pamitha:Yeah. I don't know either. I I I've never been talented enough at any sport to be have the context of playing for my country. I would think that's where I would go. Right?
Pamitha:Like, you you can play for many different clubs in your career. You can only play for your country once. Right?
Gurushabd:Yeah. I mean, potentially, but the coach for the u twenty World Cup team made it sound like those players will just always have a spot there on the team. Like, they would have wanted to bring them on. So I think these players are maybe rising up no matter where they're playing right now. Like, they have the talent, and they're gonna be successful and be called up.
Gurushabd:-That's kind of what I'm thinking.
Pamitha:Yeah. That's a good that's a really good point. And yeah, so like from a talent development standpoint, I think you're probably right, like it's six and one half a dozen the other, right?
Gurushabd:But then the thought of playing in a World Cup, exciting. Like, maybe you would feel left out, like, Oh, I'm just out here playing clubs still.
Pamitha:Do you know if these were the player if the choice to not play was made by the players, and then, like, blessed by the league, or the league came out the policy and said, We're not gonna allow
Gurushabd:this Teams gotta choose. A team's front office could say, Yes, we can release our player, or No, we need them, we're keeping them for our team.
Pamitha:It's interesting.
Gurushabd:So players did not get a say.
Pamitha:Yeah, and I don't know if this is like a one to one comparison, but in, like, other professional sports, there's always this tension between the investments made by owners in the players that play for their teams and allowing them to go play for their national teams, from a standpoint of, like, injury and expo like, exposure to injury risk from playing in a different environment under different rules and different conditions. I I don't think that's a one to one here, and I also you know, I know that age is a factor. But I'd be curious to see if there's something, that we could sort of, like, read between the lines of where owners who have decided for their teams to not allow their players to participate, if there's, like, a corresponding investment that's made that's been made in the player. Right?
Gurushabd:Mhmm.
Pamitha:Like, I can imagine the Washington spirit maybe not wanting Trinity Rodman to go play overseas in an 20 tournament, knowing how integral their that she would be to their, like, future plans. So I don't know. I'd be I'd be interested to see what that that actually looks like.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Yeah. Because, yeah, with their contracts, they're not allowed to play certain sports, do certain activities.
Pamitha:Yeah, that's true. There's already restrictions.
Gurushabd:Yeah. I could see this being, you know, concerned.
Pamitha:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We are recording this the day after Labor Day in The United States.
Pamitha:And I thought it would be interesting to just share with our listeners the importance of labor unions, what they mean in this country, and what they mean to sports. All over social media, especially if you follow NWSL accounts, you should be seeing a lot of different athletes, fans, professionals who work in the field talking about just how valuable and important labor unions are unions are. So I encourage you to go and, like, find out information on your own. Obviously, make up your own mind and choices, but, speaking for Gurus Shabad, myself, and Ali, staunchly pro union. If you get a if you can get that bug, get that union bug.
Pamitha:If you know, you know. So here's here's our sort of perspective. It's hard to understate how important labor unions are in America, because the labor unions are what give workers the collective power to negotiate with employers over wages, benefits, safety, scheduling, and just generally other conditions of their employment. An individual worker may have very little leverage if any, and could likely fear, like, reasonably fear retaliation from their employer if they raise concerns alone. A union allows all employees to establish shared priorities, negotiate enforceable agreements, and seek representation when workplace rules are violated.
Pamitha:And this role extends beyond union members. There's research, like, government research that, demonstrates unions are associated with wage premiums that are about 15% higher, over standard include and also include improved benefits, better working conditions, narrower gaps in, the race in racial and gender wage gaps, and increasing wage gains that spill over into nonunion workplaces as well. And so in this sense, unions are not merely vehicles for securing better compensation, but they help balance bargaining power, and they strengthen the middle class, and they ensure that workers have a meaningful voice in decisions that affect their lives and livelihoods, and then by extension, all of us. In sports, labor unions are usually called player associations, and they're especially important because athletes work in industries that are governed by powerful leagues and team owners. We've talked about that a lot here.
Pamitha:These athletes also face short careers, significant injury risks relative to their counterparts and other types of employment, frequent relocation, and, rules established by leagues and owners that can restrict where and under what terms they do work. We just got done talking about the restrictions on playing in the under twenty tournament. So through collective bargaining, players negotiate league wide standards for salaries, free agency, pensions, health care, maternity leave, travel, workplace safety, disciplinary procedures, and use of their names and likenesses for financial gains for the league and teams. The history of Major League Baseball provides a particularly influential example, and for those of you listening who know, you're gonna know the name Curt Flood. Curt Flood's challenge to Major League Baseball's reserve clause set the groundwork for the advent of free agency in baseball, and it fundamentally changed the dynamic of control, in the sport.
Pamitha:It gave players control over their careers. It, allowed for the first time ever players to determine for themselves where they wanted to play, and they were not just held hostage by the team that selected them. More recently, the unionization of minor league baseball players produced the very first collective bargaining agreement that doubled salaries at every level, improved health benefits, housing, travel, grievance procedures, and it demonstrates that athletes unions do more than just increase pay, they help make professional sports safer, fairer, and more sustainable for the players whose actual labor creates the product that we all consume. And to that effect, unions have been particularly consequential for women athletes, who often enter professional systems with lower compensation, fewer resources, inadequate workplace protections, and policies that fail to account for pregnancy or parenthood and family building. In 2020, the WNBA Players Association secured full salary during maternity leave, childcare assistance, improved housing for players with children, nursing accommodations, and family planning benefits, issues that might otherwise have been treated as individual concerns rather than fundamental working conditions.
Pamitha:The NWSL Players Association just and we talked about this in their twenty twenty four to twenty thirty collective bargaining agreement established free agency for every player, guaranteed contracts, player consent before trades, workload protections, revenue sharing, mental health provision provisions, and support for childcare and family building. It also made n the NWSL the first major American professionally to eliminate its draft. This is all to say, by bargaining collectively, women athletes are not only improving their own working conditions, they are helping redefine what professionalism, equity, and respect should look like throughout the sports industry. That's why labor matters. Alright.
Pamitha:That's my I'll get off my soapbox.
Gurushabd:Hey. Yeah. Once you said baseball, I almost fell asleep, but I hung in there. That Yeah. That made me think of so many women's teams that have, you know, a few player There's been instances where a few players have banded together and not much happened, or they were just left off their team's roster, like in Spain, versus the US women's team coming together, holding strong.
Gurushabd:You gotta fight as a group.
Pamitha:Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, we we celebrate Labor Day in The United States, but labor labor rights are an international issue as well. Right? Don't don't forget that when we're watching our when we're watching players who come from other countries, who play here, and we think when they go home, they're treated the same.
Pamitha:They may not be. Right?
Gurushabd:Thanks for giving us a recap into labor laws and the importance of working class banding together.
Pamitha:That's why I'm here.
Gurushabd:And what that holiday is all about. I'm sorry, listeners, that we, you know, mentioned baseball again, but I think we can all hang in there. But, yeah, I'm excited for this weekend's games, and playoffs will be here before we know it.
Pamitha:That's true. Yeah. That's true.
Gurushabd:Oh. Moving.
Pamitha:Well, thanks for thanks for, jumping in again. This has been a lot of fun. Thanks everybody for listening. Guruschabad, where can they find us on socials?
Gurushabd:Everyone come to our Instagram page at Laces Out Loud and leave comments, answer my questions that are on there, because I do wanna hear from you and have that soccer discussion.
Pamitha:Yes. Please, please engage. And, of course, if you want to reach us by email, you can reach us at lacesoutloudpodgmail dot com. That's lacesoutloudpodgmail dot com. Alright.
Pamitha:Take us out.
Gurushabd:Okay. Everyone be kind, be good to each other, and from the fans for the game. We'll see you next time on Laces Out Loud.