ASCEND by Ducks Unlimited

Learn how women navigate outdoor “icks,” confidence pressure, and community expectations without losing the joy of hunting.

Hosted by Julia Stallings, this episode features DU Ascend host Erin Crider and Arkansas hunter and storyteller Maggie Williams—two voices known for empowering new women hunters and redefining what outdoor culture looks like. Together, the three break down the unspoken norms, awkward moments, and judgment women face in the field—from makeup debates to photo etiquette, gear struggles, and safety concerns. More importantly, they offer a welcoming, honest perspective on how women can support each other, grow in confidence, and reshape conservation culture through intention and encouragement.

In this episode, you’ll learn:
  • Why certain hunting “icks” show up online and in the field
  • How women can reduce gatekeeping and improve outdoor community culture
  • Safety considerations for solo female hunters on public land
  • Real experiences of learning new skills, making mistakes, and building confidence
  • The importance of good gear, youth access, and mentorship
  • How intention, encouragement, and example shape the next generation
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The Ascend Podcast by Ducks Unlimited is Sponsored by:

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Springfield Armory.
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Creators and Guests

Host
Erin Crider
Erin Crider is the founder and owner of Uncharted Outdoorswomen, a woman‑owned, woman‑guided outfitter creating safe, welcoming spaces for women to learn hunting, fishing, and fieldcraft. Based in Colorado, Erin guides fly fishing and waterfowl and leads clinics designed to break down barriers for adult beginners. An adult‑onset hunter who moved to Colorado from Missouri, she turned her own search for mentors into a mission to mentor others; she’s now recognized as one of the very few female waterfowl guides in the West and an outspoken advocate for inclusion and conservation. Her work and story have been profiled by regional outlets and across Uncharted’s education blog.
Host
Julia Stallings
Julia Stallings is a Tennessee‑born shotgun athlete, creator, and coach known for making clay‑target sports approachable and fun. A USA Shooting trap athlete who has represented Team USA internationally, she captured two collegiate national titles—Women’s American Trap and Women’s International Trap—at the 2019 ACUI Collegiate Clay Target Championships while at Lindenwood University. She also hosts the “Guns and Gear” segment for Ducks Unlimited Television. Today, Julia blends coaching with high‑energy trick‑shot content and brand ambassadorship to help more women and new shooters enter the sport. She has partnered with Remington Ammunition and regularly shares practical, safety‑minded tips for the range and the field.

What is ASCEND by Ducks Unlimited?

Ascend is a multimedia platform that spotlights the millions of outdoorswomen across our country who go hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, biking, running, and perform important conservation work every day.

Our web series and podcast feature guests who share their experiences with a focus on entertainment, education, and authenticity. Our viewers and listeners will get to know them and learn all about their passion for the outdoors. Whether you've been in outdoor communities all your life or are just getting started, Ascend is the place for you to follow your story!

Brought to you by Ducks Unlimited.

Julia:

I have a great topic to talk about today, and I feel like so many women and people in general can just totally relate to this topic, and it's just gonna be great. So stay tuned.

VO:

Welcome to the Ascend podcast, a podcast by and for women in the outdoors. Every episode delivers real stories, practical how to's, and a welcoming community to help you start, sharpen, or rediscover your passion for the outdoors. Authentic women, real stories, outdoor adventures, Ascend. Presented by Ducks Unlimited, the leader in wetlands conservation. Your next adventure starts here, the Ascend podcast.

Julia:

Joining me today is gonna be Erin Crider, and she is a DU Ascend host, so familiar face, along with the legendary Maggie Williams.

Maggie:

Thank you for that introduction. Legendary is generous, Julia. I wanna interrupt you there. That's generous. Thank you.

Julia:

No. No. I mean, legendary from the South right there. Legendary. Everyone knows who you are.

Julia:

But today, we're gonna be talking about the icks of the outdoors. And so, guys, before we just jump into this amazing topic, Maggie, tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and everything else.

Maggie:

Well, thank you for that introduction, Julia, and I'm so excited to be here. What an honor it is to chat with you ladies today. But I am 24 years old. I'm originally from Northeast Arkansas, and I grew up duck hunting in the Delta with my dad. I went on my first duck hunt at 10 years old and got the bug, fell in love, and throughout the years, I dipped my toes in a few different things.

Maggie:

I was a West Arkansas teen USA in 2019, and I took that opportunity to advocate for women in the outdoors. And once that experience was over, I knew that I wanted this to look like my life. So I dedicated my life to spending all my time duck hunting and trying to get women more involved.

Julia:

Amazing. Amazing. I mean, that's just a wonderful story of how you just got into it and just fell in love. Like you said, you got the bug. Like, it happens to us. I feel like it happens to us all. Erin, do you have the bug?

Erin:

I've got the bug.

Julia:

I feel like you're the definition, girlfriend.

Erin:

I am.

Julia:

Man. Man. Well, I'm just gonna tee this up and just start the topic. Maggie, since you are our guest, what is your number one ick in the outdoors right now? And don't say pink.

Maggie:

Okay. Okay. I'll be honest with you. I I feel like I'm pretty tolerant. I don't really get the with very many things, and I also I I don't wanna be a hater, but I say all that to preface this.

Maggie:

I think there's never an appropriate time to put a duck in your mouth unless you're at the dinner table. Oh my gosh.

Julia:

I didn't even think of that one. That is so true. I think it's much.

Maggie:

It's not very tasteful. It's a little disrespectful. I I just don't love

Julia:

to see that. Yeah. You're so right about that. Erin, have you seen that out West?

Erin:

Yeah. I have seen that. That's not good. It's it's almost as bad as telling brand new female hunters that they have to take a bite out of the heart and then like put it on their face. Is that a thing?

Erin:

You don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. Yeah. Ew.

Julia:

You don't have you don't have to you don't

Erin:

have to be that. Eat the heart. Take it home. Cook it up first while you're processing your elk, know?

Julia:

I mean, don't you wanna season it first? Just don't I mean, I don't know. I don't eat really hard. That's not what I'd usually go for, but eat his own. Right.

Julia:

It's just it's That's icky, for sure. Ew. Yeah. So ducks in your mouth and then eating elk hearts. Okay.

Julia:

Okay. Raw. Ugh. Well, I mean, okay. So there's a big topic right now going on, like, the ick of wearing makeup in the outdoors.

Julia:

If you're an outdoors industry person, like, it's kind of frowned upon, right, to wear makeup. Is that true, Maggie? Do you think that's true?

Maggie:

I have actually I don't I don't don't catch me lying. I don't think I've ever been duck hunting with makeup on. If I have, then I think I was probably hunting in the afternoon, and I had went somewhere that morning, but I don't I don't wake up early and put makeup on, but I do think there is an ick. That's a very real a very real phenomenon going on the Internet. I do I do think it's frowned upon to wear makeup hunting.

Maggie:

So I I don't really care if anyone chooses to or chooses not to. I've got lots of friends that love to wear makeup to hunt, but I get up early. I hunt a lot of public, and I just simply would rather sleep than put on my makeup.

Julia:

I mean, that's so true. I mean, I'll be I'll be the first one to say I definitely probably put some mascara on and, like, every now and then some concealer because I'm gonna scare away the ducks with my recce and eyes, especially if I gotta wake up, like, at 03:00 in the morning. But other than that, I don't wanna look like a, you know, pageant queen. Like, I am not capable. I promise that.

Julia:

It takes me way longer than just a couple of mascara and, like, concealer. But, I mean, I just feel like you get the comment section. And maybe that's just me of what I've seen on my page, but a lot of, like, women, when they're out

Erin:

there and they look pretty or they, I mean, just maybe have a little makeup on, you get railed in the comments. But, I mean, Erin, say something, man. I mean, so when we take girls I own an all all female guide service. And when we take girls out hunting, I feel like we empower them to put on makeup if they want to, don't wear makeup if you don't want to. I feel like day one, I do wear makeup.

Erin:

Because it is I wanna show off some of that feminine energy. Right? Like, this is a safe space for whatever you wanna do. But don't be late is like the thing. Right?

Erin:

Like, you could put on makeup, but don't be late. If I am pulling away in the truck and you're still putting on mascara, like I wouldn't recommend that after you learned how to hunt through me, and then you go hire a guide with your family, like don't be late. But wear the makeup if you feel like wearing the makeup. I feel like I don't it just depends on what's happening. Like, I'm always wearing makeup with sunscreen.

Erin:

And I feel like that's half the reason I'm wearing makeup is to keep the sun and the high UV off of my face since I'm a mile closer to the sun here in Colorado.

Julia:

I mean Does

Erin:

that make sense? I love

Maggie:

that perspective, Erin. That's very valuable to hear. I did not know that you owned an all female guide service. That's incredible. Oh, thanks.

Maggie:

It's a lot of work. I understand.

Julia:

She does amazing at it.

Erin:

She's being modest. It's it's a yeah. It's a definitely a work in progress, but it's all about empowering the gals. Right? Like, they're just trying this.

Erin:

Right? I'm an adult onset hunter. It wasn't that long ago before I picked up my first shotgun, and we want these girls to feel confident so they keep coming back and they get addicted and they get the bug.

Maggie:

Absolutely. Erin, look good, feel good. Mean, do whatever you have to do to make you feel your best, but I grew up hunting with my dad, and I just honestly, since I've been doing it since I was so young, I didn't really wear makeup every day to high school. It just wasn't a part of my everyday life, but lots of my friends do wear makeup every day, and but I just I grew up also hunting the flooded timber. And so we would ride a boat in.

Maggie:

There's a lot of wind involved, and so I felt like if I ever wore mascara, like, thought just never entered my head because I would always have tears just rolling down my eyes from the wind burning my face, you know?

Erin:

Interesting. I've never hunted flooded flooded timber, so that's like a whole new new world. I would I would assume it'd be really humid.

Maggie:

Calmly. Yeah. It is humid.

Erin:

I'm from Springfield, Missouri originally, so not far from where you grew up.

Maggie:

Oh, well, like three and a half hours, four hours. Yeah.

Erin:

But what's weird is I also feel like men deal with this a little bit. Right? Because what we're really getting at is, again, back to the of women wearing makeup and then other women maybe not liking that, or being kinda outward and kinda tearing her down a little bit, like, oh, she looks really good, or I don't know. I don't wear makeup and like she shouldn't either. And I feel like men deal with the same thing, but in a different way.

Julia:

So true. So true. I I feel like I'm just gonna say it. Women can be catty sometimes. Like, they can get jealous, especially if you're breaking home a lot of ducks and getting a lot of attention and you wear makeup.

Julia:

Heaven forbid. Heaven forbid. They're in the comment section right there with the boys. But boys do it too. Boys have totally different, like, little things that, you know, I don't know, that, I mean, everyone gets jealous of.

Julia:

What would you think is the number one thing? Is it like the fit I don't think it's photography. I feel like guys, like, for some reason, I've seen some really guys that take a lot of time on the photography section of, like, making sure they pose right and do all that right, but it's not makeup. What do you think?

Maggie:

I think the competition this is so biased, I have to say. Like, this is a very niche Northeast Arkansas experience. Growing up, I think all of the guys' competition, it wasn't necessarily makeup. It was the boats. Who has the fastest boat?

Maggie:

Who has the fastest motor? That type of deal was definitely the competition, and if one guy had a hopped up two stroke, you know that he's gonna be smack talking the guy with the four stroke, and you know the guy that had the mud motor is daddy's money. That whole combination, I think, was the boys' little kinda catty back and forth environment.

Julia:

Oh, man. Oh, man.

Erin:

It's the gear here. Yeah. Like, we're in the backcountry. Right? So some brands of gear are really geared towards not really changing for three or four days because there's no shower in sight.

Erin:

There's no walls in sight. Right? But it is a competition about the gear. And you see men hating on each other for having like really expensive gear versus like Montana blue jeans. Like just getting it done with grandpa.

Erin:

And so they deal with it too. It just looks different.

Julia:

Yeah. I'm glad I'm glad we're not the only ones having the pressure.

Erin:

Like They want the big bulls. They want the big fish, you know? And here, if you see a beautiful woman with makeup and ducks, you're like like ducks after ducks, you're like, okay, she is obviously a gorgeous human being, but she's actually getting it done too. Yes. Points that match.

Julia:

I'm just saying. Okay. Speaking of fish, Erin, I have to bring this up since you brought up fish, and we just had this discussion. Okay. Is there an ick now with the, you know, social media world and posing, right, with the picture of a fish or, you know, a nice deer with your elbows.

Julia:

Like, I call it, like, elbow posing, but, like, completely out. Oh, we are. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Julia:

Demonstrate me, Erin. 100%.

Maggie:

That's I I do have that little, but not the fish doesn't bother me. I'm not a huge fisherman. I'm a hobby fisherman at best. Like, invite me to your backyard, and we'll have a great time with my little spinning gear, but I'm not a professional fisherman by any means. But fishing doesn't really bother me as much because I stay in my own lane, and, like, I think the only thing I don't like long arming is just to be expected, but I do not love the wide angle fish lens.

Maggie:

Like, with with a really nice buck, it's like, man, why did you make this beautiful one fifty look like it's a 230 inch deer? You know what I mean? Like, let's just appreciate it for what it is.

Julia:

Oh, 100%. That or hog oh my goodness. I've seen it done so much with hogs, especially, like, in Texas, and you're just like, you look really, really small. That hog look is really big,

Erin:

Which I mean, it's still a conservation success story. Right?

Julia:

So great.

Erin:

They got they and like men with shooting doe deers, they never really post about it, but like, that is

Julia:

a conservation success story in many cases. Yeah. Yeah. And all you see is just the I always I just I mean, I'm dogging on it. Like, just the elbows.

Julia:

That's all I'm seeing.

Maggie:

That's Julia's major ick.

Julia:

Yeah. It is a 100% my major I'm like, man, your elbows must be hurting. Like, I'm just wondering if you're double jointed at this point, ow.

Erin:

Yeah. Like, I so I've been running Colorado Women on the Fly for seven or eight years, like, of my girlfriends I'm 38, so I'm millennial, if you couldn't tell by my knot part in the middle. So when I'm showing girls how to take a good fish photo, their first that that this is what they do. And I'm like, okay. Alright.

Erin:

Let's bring that in, you know. And then I show them that you like, we have a lot of trout here and they're gorgeous. Like, their spots, colors, all the things that go into creating a rainbow trout and brown trout. And so what I try and do is I tap on my phone in portrait mode, and I kind of blur them out, and I just get that fish so they can see like how beautiful. Because they they're gonna I hope that they post my photo.

Erin:

I spent a lot of money on a camera. Yeah. So getting that rolling and then they post like the journey to catching that fish, that is like better than like, look how look how big this is. Look at this thing.

Julia:

Oh, man. Aaron's teaching everyone how to be like a social media master, guys. Just take notes.

Erin:

I mean, like, feel like I got into fishing. I don't know about y'all. I got into fishing specifically in Colorado because I'm like a bass angler. Like, my grandma's from Georgia. She showed me how to bass fish and I'm just a bass fishing addict even on the fly.

Erin:

Like, I competitively fish to fundraise nonprofits. Right? And you catch every fish, every species in the state in a weekend. It's so much fun. Some bass bass addict.

Erin:

But those trout, what did it for me was I saw a picture of a woman holding a beautiful fish. And I was like, oh my gosh. She's doing it. I she's do I can do that. I've only seen men do that.

Erin:

I think I'm gonna go do that. And here I am, you know? We need the beautiful photos. Yeah. It's the intent behind the photo.

Julia:

The intent? I feel like that's a that's a strong topic right there is, like, do you have the right intent? Because, I mean, there's a lot of cringe. There's totally a lot of cringe. I don't know, Maggie.

Julia:

Do you see it a lot in Arkansas? I feel like that's, like, one of the places. Right? You're, like, one of the places.

Maggie:

With with the fish necessarily, not really. But, like I said, I'm not really in the fish world. But I do I do love that she said intent is so important. Like, just your heart posture, what you're doing this for. I mean, I I've enjoyed fly fishing.

Maggie:

I'm very, very, very amateur and novice, but, no matter what you're doing, it's what is your heart posture? Are you doing this to have fun, or are you doing this to take a picture with a fish? You know, trout are very fragile. So you've gotta be careful with the trout whenever you release them, and, you know, enjoying God's creation, it's just so important to respect whatever your pursuit is. So I I love that you said your intentions.

Julia:

I agree. I totally agree on that.

Erin:

The other ick that I have is, like, when I can tell women are posing for a man in the photo. Oh. Like, I get girls in the blind, or at a lot of our, like, big game camps, they're there to impress a man. And I'm like, girlfriend, you this is a safe space. You don't have to belong.

Erin:

You don't have to have like that cutesy like side, you know, I don't it's always like this and like, I I don't know. And that that's for me. I'm like, what is your intent here? Because Cinderella got the prince. So like, you don't need those fake eyelashes if you don't want them.

Julia:

Fair enough.

Erin:

He's if he loves you, he's going to love you, you know. Fish, no fish. Strap of ducks, no strap of ducks. Doe deer, bull elk, like

Julia:

You know, one thing I love about women is when they show, like, the behind the scenes, like, when you especially when you start hunting with your, you know, significant other like, for me, I was, like, my boyfriend at the time. You know? I showed the behind the scenes of me learning the stuff I did not know. Like, I learned from my dad, but, like, all the other stuff. Right?

Julia:

And there's just moments where you're just like, oh my goodness. This is hilarious. Like, looking back at it, I'm like, I was such a newbie. Oh my gosh. Like, I remember my first time ever turkey hunting.

Julia:

Never turkey hunted ever, like, growing up. My dad wasn't a big turkey hunter. And we were walking down, like, the road, and he goes, do you see any signs of turkeys? And I'm over here like, no. I I just saw the deer crossing sign.

Julia:

I didn't see a turkey sign. Like, I'm thinking like, was thinking like, I didn't know. I was like, I when I mean I was so green, I was so green. And like, I didn't know. I was like, what do you mean a turkey sign?

Julia:

Like, I just saw the deer crossing sign. Is there a turkey one? Like, do we do we look for that? Do we look for like a turkey thing where we go that direction? I have no idea we were looking at footprints in the ground.

Julia:

So, of course, I was on Instagram, like, yeah, me hunting with my boyfriend for the first time, turkey hunting, loving this. And he got it like totally on camera and I'm over here. Well, I'm definitely new. New to this game. A student of nature.

Erin:

Because there's no ego. Right? Like, nature doesn't know I needed

Julia:

the whole tag on my on my

Erin:

thing because I was like,

Julia:

you know, like student driver? I needed one of those. Like, student hunter reporting for duty. I don't know. Maggie, what was, like, a good time where you just remember, like, when you were just learning something where it was just a fun it's like one of those memories where you're just like, oh my gosh.

Julia:

This makes everything fun. This is memorable. You know, you're learning, but this is the moment.

Maggie:

Very similarly to you, I got into turkey hunting as a young adult. I was a senior in high school, the first time I was able to successfully harvest a wild turkey. Now, I was hunting a little bit before that and very unsuccessfully at that, but there was a time when I was in high school, I think I might have been a sophomore or a freshman. What's important here is I I had to be a sophomore because I was the only one with a car. So I had several boys in my agriculture class, I think it was agriculture science, and we were all talking about how we loved duck hunting, but it was a spring and we wanted to go hunting.

Maggie:

So one of the boys said, hey. You know, my my grandpa owns a Christmas tree farm, and he saw a turkey up there a couple years ago. A couple years ago, he saw a turkey. So he's like, let's all go turkey hunting. And we are duck hunting kids.

Maggie:

But I'm like, hey, y'all I'll pick y'all up. I'll just go house to house to house, and we'll all just go turkey hunting together. So we load up my truck, and we get there in the dark, and we truly I don't know, Erin, are you a turkey hunter as well? Oh, yeah. You'll laugh at this.

Maggie:

We set up in the dark, kind of in a semi circle. We're not hidden at all. We're all just like on the front of a tree, you know, on the edge of a wide open pasture, and, we all get our pot calls and our box calls out, and like the little duck hunters we are, we all start calling in unison, and we put out a decoy spread. There is probably eight turkey decoys out in front of us, and we're just yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, unanimously. Like, we're all doing it together.

Maggie:

Obviously, no turkeys were harmed in that endeavor, but, we would all go to Hardee's afterwards and talk to the old men and, like, y'all y'all catch anything? And we're like, no. We didn't we didn't catch any turkeys today. We actually didn't see any either, but we did that for a little while. Just truly the blind leading the blind.

Maggie:

Just learning, having fun, and just being total goofballs together.

Julia:

But that's what makes the memories. That's what makes, like, the best learning experience. Like, you have something to grow off of, I feel like. What what are your thoughts, Erin? What was your memorable moment where you're just like, this is it?

Erin:

Well, I like the story because there's no ego. Right? Like, we're all learning and I also wanna throw a turkey spread as a little waterfowl gal. So my favorite experience from like this year is I took these two gals out. I normally take out, like, put up small game hunts and they're brand new hunters, like, usually they show up and they're holding their shotgun, they're like, okay, I'm here.

Erin:

And I was like, okay, well, let's let's let me show you how to do this. And these two gals, I was like, I think these girls are pretty fit. Let me like, they were military girls. I was like, do you guys wanna go to like a gnarly place and like get into some upland, like some grouse in the mountains and they were all for it. They're like, absolutely, we torture we torture ourselves all summer climbing these 14,000 foot mountains and I'm like, that's not for me.

Erin:

So they they're probably gonna out hike me. Right? And my favorite experience was taking them onto public land, which Colorado was 48% public land and I have to have a National Forest Permit as an organization to take them there, right? So I also have the permission. So like, the thing everything is like aligning.

Erin:

Right? And I take them down there and we find it is like 500 feet straight down into this hole where if I ever kill an elk down there, like I'm in trouble. No one's coming to save me if I kill something that big down there because it's just so steep. These girls, we run into the the the sign, like the scat and some feathers in on our way out, and we've we've done like a three mile loop. On our way out, we bust a couple grouse.

Erin:

And I'm like, okay, one girl's got 22, one girl's got a shotgun. And so the first girl she's like, okay, I'm gonna walk up to it. She's gonna take the shot. The girl with the shotgun is gonna try and get her back up as she flushes. Right?

Erin:

And so they didn't get their bird because they were both like, oh my gosh, this is such a new experience. And then they apologized afterwards and I was like, oh, no, girl. There's no apologies here. Like, this is a learning experience. But they went back there together the following weekend and got their grouse together.

Erin:

Didn't know each other, publicly in spot. I really am hoping that that makes a huge impact for them, and there is no ego involved. Right? Like, they don't need a limit of grouse. They got one, and they found their community.

Erin:

They found each other. That's

Julia:

so awesome. I feel like that's so hard sometimes to find that group, to find, like, your niche people, especially sometimes even when you move. Like, for me, it's been tough. Like, I have a community in Memphis, but now I'm like, where's my pals at here? You know?

Julia:

You're, like, kinda searching. So that's amazing that, you know, they're building that. Maggie, do you have a, like, community at home, like, that you just grow up where, like, those are your buds to hunt with?

Maggie:

I'll be honest. I grew up with a bunch of men, done with men, all my dad's friends. There is a joke around my little duck hunting community.

Julia:

I'm not gonna name it. I don't wanna I don't

Maggie:

wanna hot spot it, but there is a joke where they call me the people's princess, because I felt like everyone's grandpa knew me, was my friend, and looked out for me. Like, that was a neighborhood understanding, like, watch out for Maggie. If her boat is not running, like, someone needs to give her a tow back down the river, it was just understood to look out for the girl because I was really the only one out there. So, I was just the neighborhood's kid.

Erin:

It sounded like they cared about keeping you in the sport.

Julia:

I

Maggie:

did. I was very, very lucky. I had so many people invest in me at a young age that I will truly never take that for granted, and it also motivates me to get other young people involved.

Julia:

Oh, that's amazing. I love that.

Erin:

Gentlemen is what we call We

Julia:

need we need them. We need them all the time. Do you think there's a pressure out there right now, especially, like, in the world today? Like, there's, like, this pressure to be good out there, so, like, sometimes it's really hard to, like, find that community?

Maggie:

Personally, I wanna say no. I I just haven't had that experience because I take a lot of novices out. So I always tell everyone, in order to be good, first you have to begin. So, like, I just took a novice young lady duck hunting in Nebraska the other day, and she was asking me all kinds of questions, and, like, we just get out there, and she said said, I hey, is your gun a 20 gauge or a 12 gauge? Because we need to stop for ammo.

Maggie:

And she's like, I don't know. Will you look at my gun? And I was like, absolutely. And she's like, oh, please don't laugh at me. And I'm like, girlfriend, why would I laugh at you?

Maggie:

I'm here to help you. And she is a hard worker. We we got out there. She helped pick up. She helped put out decoys, didn't complain, was just so enthusiastic and so eager.

Maggie:

And I see more newcomers, especially women, that have good attitudes, that are just happy. So I don't feel like there is necessarily a pressure to be good at it before you join a community, but I also intentionally welcome newcomers and let them know this is a safe space. Ask any questions. No questions are dumb questions. And in order to be good at something, at first, have to start.

Julia:

That's amazing. Erin, I feel like you deal with this too.

Erin:

Yeah. Like, as women, like you just described, Maggie, we're redesigning what the outdoors looks like and what conservation looks like, and that's why this podcast with Ducks Unlimited even exist. Right? Like, we don't want to be pulled into the pressures of, oh, like you just did a reel, I went back and looked at your social media and I saw a reel and you're like, these guys have got like bad attitudes. Like, I'll take anyone to to show them how to use a duck call.

Erin:

And these guys, like, they're world renowned duck callers and they're out there not having a great day because they didn't get a limit. And women are redesigning what conservation is supposed to look like. Right? It's about the mascara running down because you hiked five mountain miles and didn't even see a deer. Right?

Erin:

But if you still are beautiful because it's, I don't know, like, not crazy mileage, that's cool too. But like, we don't need to post because we did harvest something, and I feel like that's where the ego comes in. Like, had five or six tags this year. Zero were filled because it snowed for the first time yesterday. So all the animals are really high.

Erin:

And I took some beautiful photos, so I'm gonna post, know, that journey, and I think that's what we're trying like, we're subconsciously trying to redesign what it looks like. The waterfowlers here in Colorado, which is not like the world's most amazing waterfowl state, we have 1% water, is how much our state holds. And yesterday was big storm, so I went and checked out my lease and they weren't flying like how I had expected, you know, you hear a little pressure like birds are moving. I didn't see much compared to like the day before. So I'm I'm looking around at the other outfitters and I'm messaging some guys that I know and they're like, yeah, we didn't really like get much of anything.

Erin:

Some of the guys posted their two ducks or their two geese. And then other people are like, here's my limit. And I'm like, what? How did it not smell over there? Like they they they also feel this pressure.

Erin:

So we as women aren't alone, I feel like, but we're redesigning like, girl, I'm showing up at 05:30 and there's gonna be three amazing women in my blind on Saturday. We're gonna have a great time, you know? That's what it's about. I love the way

Maggie:

you say we are designing what we are redesigning what conservation looks like because that is so true. There's actually a song by the High Women and it's called Redesigning Women, and I love that. I'll have to send you the song afterwards, but it's really, really neat. It's really sweet. But I think redesigning is so true because women, we are the fastest growing demographic in the outdoors, and I feel like there is this pressure to be tough and to be rough and to fit in and be masculine, but women offer a gentleness and that soft perspective that is so necessary in conservation.

Maggie:

It's a beautiful contrast, and it's just such a fresh perspective that is so valuable.

Erin:

I think that's

Julia:

so true. Like, don't try to be something that you're not. Amplify who you are and what you're about.

Erin:

Oh, I love that. Oh. And there's very few women that come to my blind and they're like, okay, how many ducks can we get today? Like, they're they're like, hi. What's your name?

Erin:

Is it weird if I ask you for your Instagram? Because I kinda wanna hang out later because I think we both live in like x y z town and it's like twenty minutes from each other. I'm like, yes. That's what we want. Yeah.

Erin:

Because we want them to go back out and hunt together. Yeah. Right? Like we want to grow the community, so that more women are more caring and uplifting and not like we were saying, like we need to support each other and not become what I feel like the system has created without us. Is this like this domination of whose fish is bigger, who's got more ducks, whose bull elk is bigger, like, who's got bigger antlers, like, that doesn't that doesn't bode well for conservation.

Julia:

No. It doesn't. We gotta make that movement, guys. We're doing it. We're on the right track.

Erin:

Yeah. Men feel like they're they're not man enough when they don't post something big, you know, back to the we're women. We're like, selfie.

Julia:

I feel like we had a great time today. Yeah. I feel like we post everything. The good, the bad, the ugly, you know, you name it, we post it. We're like, yeah.

Julia:

Let's go for it. Heck yeah.

Maggie:

Think, whenever I was younger, it was definitely easy to be caught up in the duck culture of my duck hunting community, and it was always just a kill pick contest. And as I have gotten older, and as I have grown a little bit of a audience, and have a little bit of influence, I've been trying to be so mindful of, hey, duck hunting is not all about kill pictures. And I'm doing more and more just to post, like Erin said, the journey, little moments that don't even have ducks in it, because I don't wanna set that example for the next generation that, hey, we're out here. We're Neanderthals. It's all about killing, killing, killing because that's not what we do it for.

Maggie:

So I'm absolutely trying to shift away from glorifying just ducks on a strap and more so glorifying, hey, we're enjoying God's creation. We're building a community. We're being ethical. We're giving back to conservation. We're buying our duck stamps, and we're just being respectful of God's creation and enjoying ourselves regardless if we are blessed with the limit or if we are blessed with a beautiful sunrise, that's it.

Julia:

You are so right.

Erin:

Like, the more confidence we can give these brand new hunters to buy that hunting license and that duck stamp every year, like, when grandpa or let's not use grandpa, we love grandpa. Uncle Joe. When uncle Joe is like, oh, you can't do a, b, and c here and she's like, no, can. I can hunt whichever way I want as long as it's in the legal limits and I'm not gonna take, you know, a 60 yard shot. So I don't get my ducks because you have a full choke and you're taking long shots and I'm gonna do my thing.

Erin:

You know, that's what we need because she's gonna continue to show up for conservation where Joe let's just hope I don't know. Let's hope Joe's not using lead at this point.

Julia:

We hope Joe's are using the right kind of ammo. Maggie, I feel like you do such a great job, and I gotta brag on you for a second. If no one's ever seen your page,

Erin:

they need to go to

Julia:

it because I think you do a really good job of portraying a well rounded community. Right? When you look at it, you're, like, showing the background and everything. Like, not just the hunting, but what takes place before and what takes place after. And, you know, like, I just wanna brag on you.

Julia:

Like, that was the first thing when I saw your page, especially working with mutual friends, I was like, oh, she's cool. She's really cool. She's got some cool pictures back there. You gotta go check it out.

Erin:

So Thank

Maggie:

you, Julia. That means a lot to me, and I really enjoyed learning about journalism in college. I love to write. I'm a writer. I love photography.

Maggie:

And so since God has just given me this blessing of an audience, I wanna share, you know, the nitty gritty of it all, because there's truly so much more to duck hunting than what meets the eye, and there's just there's truly so much in the process that I'm so lucky to document, so why not share it with you guys? So thank you for that, Julia. That's super, super kind of you to say.

Julia:

Oh, no. Absolutely. Absolutely. You need to be bragged on because, like, everyone needs to do that. I feel like we're missing a piece if we're not doing that, not sharing that moment so we can't take that gratitude.

Julia:

You know? Like, we need to show that and promote it. And you do a really good job with your photography. I love your dog pictures. I'm just gonna say it.

Maggie:

Thank you. Thank you. I have a great subject. He's my best friend in the world. He's actually listening to us over there, but, thank you.

Julia:

Oh, he's so good. Okay. Well, let's hear from our sponsors and just take a break. Well, welcome back. Okay.

Julia:

Let's jump into the ick on gear. I know that's kind of, like, a little sensitive topic, but you know what? We should just talk about it. Like, rip off the Band Aid.

Maggie:

You know? Throw it out there.

Julia:

Right? Let's do it. The biggest thing that I think I found and, you know, I've heard from a lot of my following is, like, why is it so hard to find women's clothes that actually fit? I mean, maybe it's me. Maybe it's a couple of people that I've, like, that have reached out to me and said that, but, like, is this something that y'all struggle with?

Maggie:

I have a hot take. This might not fit with with with the podcast.

Erin:

Throw it in there, girlie.

Maggie:

I don't think it's hard to find women's gear. I think it's hard to find cheap women's gear, but that fits. But quality women's gear exists and it has for the last four or five years. But I'm tall. I'm tall, so I wear unisex gear.

Maggie:

I wear men's gear. I'm super blessed to honestly whenever I was a little kid, I'd get so upset, like, I have to wear little boys' coats, but, like, now I wear a men's small. It fits great, but I know that women have a lot of different shapes and sizes, and we all have different bodies, but I think all of the big names in the outdoors, Shingear, Hueyue, Sitka, I'm missing some. First Light, all of the the big names, they are investing in their women's gear. So I think it's out there.

Julia:

It's just expensive. So we got a pink tax.

Maggie:

I I don't think it's just necessarily the women's, though. I think it's just all top of the line gear.

Julia:

It's true. I feel like everything is going up right now. I mean, I feel like as a whole, that's a thing. Like, even I went by Emma the other day, I, like, wanted to cry.

Erin:

I was like, oh my goodness.

Maggie:

Shoot. You

Julia:

know, don't there's no warning shots, guys. No ducks goat. No warning shots. It's all it's all accounted for. But yeah.

Julia:

No. I think you're right, Maggie. Like, I feel like women, we do have a lot of different shapes and sizes compared to men. You can't really tell here. I have my

Maggie:

How tall are you, Julia?

Julia:

I'm five three on a good day.

Erin:

I love that. Cool. You got an inch and a half on me, girl.

Julia:

My hair, sometimes it gets that humidity and I go to the doctor and they're like, oh, yeah. You're five three today. I'm like, yeah. Heck yeah. That's funny.

Julia:

Every bone in my body, I'm like, straight, super dull, telling myself be light as a feather so they don't put my, you know, weight on my license. That's funny. That's funny. Suck it in. Yep.

Julia:

But, no, I feel like we do have you know? Like, there's so many different shapes and sizes. And, like, for me, at least for the short people, and, Erin, you can speak to this. Sorry, Maggie. You're tall.

Julia:

But it's kinda hard for pants. I don't know about you, but it's the pants that get me. The tops, amazing. I never had a problem finding a top. I've always found, like, issues with pants and waiters.

Julia:

That's been the biggest thing for me is, like, finding the right waiters for my thighs. And I know that sounds bad, but it's so true.

Erin:

I mean, we are all kinds of different shapes and sizes. Right? And it is so disheartening to see these women, like Go ahead, Erin. Go ahead, Erin. Hunting camo companies go out of business this year.

Erin:

I really wish because and I'd have a bunch of people reaching out that are like, hey, would you test this? Or like, we're trying to start this women's company and I'm like, can y'all all just like get together? All these failed companies, the successful ones, the ones that are trying to make it, and can we collaborate with the data that we have? Like I see it's it's very similar to women's organizations. They come and they go.

Erin:

And I'm like, what what happened? What happened? And we are in lots of different shapes and sizes dealing with a lots of different issues, but if we came together and we didn't have like this competitive, which is definitely generated from our insecurities, If we didn't have this competitive nature about some of us, we would probably have a more collaborative experience because when hunting started, you know, women weren't really involved when it when it like modern day hunting here. And so women's gear for women wasn't really something that was really thought of. But now that let's see.

Erin:

I've been hunting for seven or eight years now. I went from wearing little boys to like, yeah, I'm gonna buy the Sitka gear because and I'm gonna put up the money for it because I won't have to buy it again. There's room in the gear to expand during different phases of my cycle because we do bloat and, you know, the pregnant gals, you need something for them. There's nothing wrong with them. They want to go out there and shoot some things.

Erin:

So it was just a system not created for us specifically, but they're out there. Like the thought leaders are there. We just need them to like work together to figure it out. But we get we do have to pay the dollar amount if we want really good gear, right? Or create a community that's like, oof, I outgrew this and I am way bigger than I was in 2019 and I ain't going back to hundred and twelve pounds because that didn't fit me.

Erin:

One forty feels really good because I'm strong and really capable and I can get up these mountains. I'm selling all this gear that's an extra small in a, you know, Facebook group or on Facebook marketplace, so those gals can jump in and get in on good gear and continue to buy those hunting licenses.

Julia:

So what you're saying is we need, like, an amazing resale store for women for hunting.

Erin:

I think they're like,

Julia:

this is their next, you know, job adventure.

Erin:

Yeah. But honestly, I'm wearing Fjallraven pants, like, year round.

Julia:

Oh, nice.

Erin:

They're not even hunting, but they they expand, and I've I changed sizes. Right? Like, I'll put 10 miles in, eight, ten mountain miles in on a day. That's a great

Julia:

way to lose weight. So if my I need I need to start the hunting season a little bit bigger and I want my pants

Erin:

to still fit by the end of it, especially for like my archery elk guides, they're they fluctuate in weight. It's crazy because they're putting it mean, they're running half marathons almost every morning. So Okay.

Julia:

Do you think it's an itch Yeah. If the, like, women's clothing comes in, like, pink or teal blue? Have you seen that?

Maggie:

Julia, I will say this was really prevalent in, like, whenever I was probably I was young. I was, like, preteen. I may have been, like, 13, 14. So, like, twenty twelve, twenty eleven, I saw a lot of the brands take a little boy's coat and stamp a purple logo on it or a pink logo and be like, this is our women's

Julia:

one. And

Maggie:

it existed for a few years. I don't know if it still does. But I also, I will say, I invested in my gear now. So I don't it was a lot of low end gear. So I'm not the most reputable source to say if it still exists or not, because I just I do invest in unisex gear that works and fits all different types of bodies, whether you're a male or a female.

Maggie:

But I felt like that was really, really prevalent, but it's gotten better. Am I crazy for saying it's gotten better?

Julia:

So that was, like, my little switcheroo I had, like, on my little notes because, like, I feel like the brands have heard heard the women, have heard it, and was like, you know, maybe we should not do that. Like, maybe that's not a good idea. We thought it was, and then we regrouped. And, like, I feel like brands have gotten so much better of, like, not just throwing pink on a women's label or purple or teal blue, like, Tiffany blue. And they're like, yeah.

Julia:

This is a woman. They're gonna love it. You know? Like, I feel like they've gotten a lot better.

Erin:

I really don't. I try not to wear a lot of a lot of pink out in the backcountry because I don't want men to know that I'm a woman out there. So I do avoid pink. But for fishing, I do wear a lot of teal hats, and I'll buy teal colors, but that's kind of where my knowledge is on that. Like, if I I know that if I want something to last, I'm going to have to invest in it, and it's going to have to move around in sizes.

Julia:

Erin, let's just talk about that for a second. When you talk about, like, not wanting to wear pink in the outdoors just for was that a safety reason?

Erin:

Absolutely. It's a safety reason. Don't want them to know I'm a girl over here, you know.

Julia:

Talk more for like The world.

Erin:

It's just not a safe space. Like, I've had some not so great experiences with men encountering them, and I feel like like I've definitely had shotguns pointed at me because on public land for water and like that wasn't cool. Right? He knew I was woman. That would never happen to a man.

Erin:

Right? Like, he wouldn't just like try and really intimidate so easily, you know, to to take her spot on Thanksgiving Day, like, on. And in the backcountry, I don't want them to I definitely I'm at miles and miles away from any type of cell phone service. I don't want them to know that I'm a girl out there.

Maggie:

Erin, I totally agree. I have to piggyback on this because I am the exact same way. It's not as much as a problem for me duck hunting because it's obviously a social sport, but I do a lot turkey hunting independently in the backcountry. I do a little bit of door knocking, but I also do a lot of public hunting. And if I am ever by myself in the woods, I obviously carry a pistol in my pants, but I also have my hair pulled back.

Maggie:

I like the I don't know what these face masks are called, but I like the ones that cover your head and that you can only see your eyes. I will tuck my little ponytail back there, and I don't want to look like a girl. I wear compression undergarments. I don't I'm I'm five nine. I want to look like a tall, skinny high school boy.

Maggie:

Well, well, for you

Erin:

to that blind like, I'm not racing him. I can't do

Julia:

I'm almost 40. I can't race a young kid. Right? Like, that's a good move.

Maggie:

Yeah. It's just it's just smart to just, you know, don't don't put yourself in a compromising position because you look vulnerable as a female by yourself in the back country with no cell phone service. So just use that masculine energy. Yeah. To keep

Julia:

yourself smart. Really good tips, especially for everyone who's watching right now. Like, I feel like that, you know, that's a great topic to talk about if, like, be safe out there.

Erin:

You don't know who they are out What

Julia:

do you think for the youth hunters out there? Do you think we have, like, pretty like, a good amount of brands that do youth clothing as well? I know, like, women's, it's gotten better, but has youth gotten better?

Maggie:

Can I can I brag on a company for a second?

Julia:

Yeah. Like, let's hear it.

Maggie:

Go for it. Just like Ducks Unlimited, Shingear is actually headquartered out of Memphis, Tennessee. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Shingear. It's spelled c h e n e. That's French for oak.

Maggie:

But anyway, just a little fun fact. They have got a youth program, which is really exciting. So they it's a waiter trade in program. You buy the first pair of waiters, and as this kid grows I don't have a child, so I don't I don't wanna tell any lies on the podcast, but you can trade in the waiters as the child grows until they are no longer a youth hunter. So that's super sustainable.

Maggie:

I love that they're investing in our youth, but they come in, like, a variety of body sizes, so you can get, like, a size nine foot, which I do, and an extra small body, and it goes the same way for the youth. They have all different types of widths to fit the shoes. They're super inclusive. It's good for boys, for girls. And it's I love that it's unisex.

Maggie:

They don't say we make we don't make gear for boys or girls. We just make good gear for everyone.

Erin:

I love that.

Julia:

Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong. Don't they have a place where you can actually go in and get fitted in Memphis?

Maggie:

There's actually a store in Memphis you can get fitted. It's on Noncona Boulevard, and there's also one in Stuttgart.

Julia:

Okay. That's what I thought.

Erin:

It sounds like they have a woman on their team.

Maggie:

Right? Because we've Yeah.

Erin:

We've already alluded to, like, women don't wanna pay full price for gear when they are just getting into it. And I don't really see a lot of men hosting garage sales or selling kids gear, but I see a ton of moms that are like, oh my gosh, you're having a baby? Is it a boy? I have like three crates of clothes that don't fit anymore that could give you. So that like the fact that they can bring in the potentially, we don't we need to check, but potentially bring in waiters and then upsize with that child

Maggie:

You can't.

Erin:

That's a woman's idea. It's gotta be.

Maggie:

I'm just not sure what the limit is. For sure. I'm not sure if you can bring in five pairs as the kid grows, or if you can bring in three. I I need to look into how many pairs, but I know that throughout the child's adolescence, can trade them in until they are no longer a youth hunter. Do know that.

Julia:

That's amazing. Genius. Honestly, that's amazing for brands to start doing that and, like, just helps that generational, you know, growth. We need that. Especially for our youth, I feel like there's a gap.

Julia:

You know? We need to close it.

Maggie:

Let let me I'm gonna fact check this really

Erin:

quick, y'all.

Maggie:

That way I could see. Okay. Under the under the youth waiter trade in program, we offer four sizes of zipper less waiters, size six, seven, boot size four, eight, nine, boot size five, ten, eleven, boot size six, and twelve, fourteen, boot size seven. As children grow, they pay a $125 to exchange waders that are in good condition and improved by shin gear, and they receive a larger size. Children who outgrow the U sizes can receive a full size pair of waders and be eligible to exchange for a larger one size additional time while they're still in the program.

Erin:

Yeah. Genius.

Maggie:

I love that. Children graduate once they turn 15.

Julia:

That's awesome. That's great. Yeah. And that's perfect timing because usually by your 15, you you have your good group, you're going together, you know. Yeah.

Julia:

You have a job by the

Erin:

you have

Julia:

a car. You're getting a car. You're having a job. You can pay for another set of weight. I wasn't getting any taller.

Maggie:

I I will say that is I love that because, truly, whenever I was a youth hunter, I wasn't very comfortable, and I was able to enjoy the outdoors because my dad made it so welcoming for me. But I think, what if I had gear that fit me that wasn't cheap to hand me downs? What if I had waders that fit my body that were quality, that were obviously like the uninsulated waders they offer today? They're super comfy. It it a different level of quality is available to the youth than it was, you know, ten years ago.

Maggie:

That helps keep more young hunters interested and involved, so I love that.

Julia:

No. Absolutely. I mean, I've never wanted to tell people, like, my first experience duck hunting, I absolutely hated it. I've never said that out loud. Yes.

Julia:

And it's because it's fun fact. It's because, like, I I died. I was like, oh my gosh. This is cold. This is miserable.

Julia:

This is not welcoming. Why would I ever wanna come out here? And I remember my first day, like, my dad, like, got me actual stuff that fit me and kept me warm. And I was like, this is the funnest thing ever. Like, we have to go.

Julia:

This is so much fun. And he's like, wow. Your mood's changed. And I was like, yeah. I'm not freezing.

Julia:

I'm not uncomfortable. I, like, have things that fit. I'm not, you know, waddling and falling in the water. Yeah. Of course, I'm having a blast, but it's a big deal.

Maggie:

Changes everything.

Julia:

It's a big deal. Having stuff like, the right stuff that fits you, you're gonna enjoy it a lot faster.

Maggie:

100%.

Julia:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you think so I know you said Sheena was out there. Is there another brand that's just taken off that you think deserves a little recognition?

Maggie:

What are you thinking, Erin?

Erin:

I don't know if it's like taking off, but I've I've owned the DSG heated vest for, gosh, since the year it came out a couple years ago, because I froze on my first duck hunt too. It was a really good year and I froze. It was really cold. And we're in the river. Right?

Erin:

And so our public land, you have to hike in about a mile to go duck hunting on on like the Eastern part of Colorado, so kind of towards Nebraska. And I'm not racing in a 17 year old boy, you know, a mile in. But like, once I get there, I am pretty sweaty. Right? And that's like cause for disaster, you're gonna freeze.

Erin:

But once I'm, you know, get all the decoys out moving around, I put my jacket on that I've carried in, and then I sit down and I turn that heat on. And if I can keep my core warm, and I also have like little electric hand warmers, not the shaking one because I think that they're bad for the environment, I just have like the same electric one that I've had for a really long time and I put it in my waiters. That's kind of been like my go to and I feel like the most women in my blind, once we see them, like, once I see them at like a shotgun class or maybe a pheasant hunt, something beginner and then waterfowl being intermediate out here, then that's when they're like investing in the heated gear, in the comfort of the clothing, in the insulated boots, you know, so any type of heated gear, but DSG is partially women owned and they're trying to make it. Yeah. Right?

Erin:

So I'm here to support that.

Maggie:

Very cool.

Julia:

Don't you have heated socks?

Erin:

Oh, girl. Yeah. Got all the heated things.

Maggie:

Send me a link.

Erin:

I saw a heated jacket. One of my girlfriends yesterday in the blind, she had heated leggings because they go skiing.

Julia:

Oh. Yeah. Can we drop the link for those?

Erin:

So I

Julia:

feel like you need to share that link if that sounds promising.

Erin:

If anyone listening has suggestions, like, drop them in the comments below. We wanna hear from you. I know

Julia:

we need it. We definitely need those. Okay. So last thing I wanna talk about is, is there anything that we can do to kinda shift the energy and support each other? I know we kinda, you know, went over it just a little bit, but what do y'all think?

Julia:

Do you think we can, like, shift this energy and kinda, like, promote something better? Can we do we have that capability, and, like, where is it at?

Maggie:

I think the biggest shift starts with remembering why we fell in love with the outdoors. We did not elect to become outdoorswomen to cast judgment upon other outdoors, men or women. We did it because we were passionate, and we fell in love with God's creation. We were super blessed to be a part of something bigger than ourselves. So, yes, it's super easy to get the and be like, oh, they're not doing it.

Maggie:

Right? Well, teach them the right way. Simply teach them the right way. If you see someone that does something that's a little disrespectful, don't cast a hateful comment and be like, you're an idiot. Like, you're obviously a newbie.

Maggie:

Why would you put that duck in your mouth? Send her a message. Hey, girlfriend. Let me explain to you. This really isn't super hygienic.

Maggie:

It's also kinda disrespectful. I know that you didn't know, but, like, hey, this is why we do it this way. No judgment, just looking out for you. And by being caring, by truly putting that ego aside and wanting to put yourself on a pedestal, get down on someone's level. Like, in the words of Jesus, wash their feet.

Maggie:

Like, truly, look out for other hunters and just get hands on, help, give advice. And I think just having that true heart posture of wanting to make a difference, you will make a difference.

Julia:

I could not agree more. I think that's, like, right, you know, on the nail right there. Like, honestly, lift them up. Lift others up. Help them up.

Julia:

Show them hey. Show them what's right. Show them what's wrong. Don't put them down. Bring them up.

Julia:

I love that. Mhmm.

Erin:

Erin. And I think Maggie being an influencer that is continuing to put out just positive content, supporting all of the things and never hating, we need more of that because systems weren't built for us. Right? We our insecurities are picked at and that makes us envious of each other and that's not good. And if one woman says something negative about another woman, it makes us all look bad.

Erin:

Mhmm. Right? So we have to stay positive and we have to be supportive and I understand that some women may not have that lens yet, right, of the support because the system wasn't designed for women to be able to be collaborative and unite and be powerful and have this feminine energy to get out there in nature. But it but we still have to keep positive about that and not see it as criticism when you receive the message from Maggie that says don't put this in your mouth because it's gross and like that's probably a dude thing. You don't have to do that to fit in.

Erin:

You already fit in. You bought your hunting license. You're supporting waterfowl conservation. You're supporting conservation of that animal. So don't see it as criticism if you aren't seeing it through the same lens as we are, because I feel like messages that I have put out to women to like warn them about something, they immediately feel like, oh, super defensive.

Erin:

Mhmm. Like, oh, I didn't I didn't, you know, and I'm like, oh, no. I didn't mean that. Like, I'm just I have some background in this. I'm trying to share that background with you.

Maggie:

I think, Erin, in a way to kinda keep women from being defensive, like, instead of having to, like, put ourselves in a position to have to constantly message people and be like, hey. This is not good. You shouldn't do this. Lead by example. And that is Yes.

Maggie:

The loudest way you can make a difference in the outdoors. Like, a, there's plenty of people that tell me, I don't see Maggie Williams putting ducks in her mouth, so I don't put ducks in my mouth. High five. Like, that's awesome. Like, truly, by being the difference you wanna see, people will follow suit.

Maggie:

So, like, even if it is hard to sometimes message people, and if it it's uncomfortable. Like, you don't have to, you know, you you don't have to also give your 2¢ in the DMs if you you just you know, it's it's more so about being positive and not leaving hateful commentary. But Yeah. Be be an example. Be the shining light they need to see, and people will follow suit.

Julia:

So true. So true. I love that. Oh, I love it. It's great.

Maggie:

So I guess my question is, when are we all going duck hunting?

Julia:

Oh, just say when. Just say when. Air, we're dragging you.

Erin:

Are they down there yet?

Maggie:

I'm in Kansas right now. We gotta we gotta push a bird to Kansas, so call me girls.

Erin:

Yeah. We yesterday, I mean, we have our duck season is closed right now because we're in the split, but I saw hundreds of ducks, which is abnormal in the foothills zone, so like right outside of Denver versus like, normally I see that amount of ducks when I travel up to Wyoming, when they aren't making their way down here. I go up there to like see what's going on, you know? But we got a good push, so I'm excited. But I've never hunted the swamp.

Erin:

I'm like, you must your waders must not leak.

Maggie:

No, I don't. I I do invest in good gear, so I don't have to deal with leaky waders. But what size are you? What size boot are you?

Erin:

I think I'm like a seven or eight.

Maggie:

I can find something to fit you, girl. I I got some Hey. Nerd waiters. Don't leak. I'll let you borrow them.

Maggie:

But seriously, we we need to get together and go duck hunting this season. That's my goal.

Erin:

Do you get wood ducks in there in the swamp?

Maggie:

Oh, this this is a little taboo. Can I can I go on it

Julia:

to me

Maggie:

really quick, Julia? Do we have time

Julia:

for that? Yeah. Let's do it. Like, this is No. I think we need

Erin:

a sin program is for yes. This is for tangents about all the things.

Maggie:

Okay. Yes. Wood ducks are plentiful in Arkansas. I grew up hunting Arkansas public. So it is actually rude.

Maggie:

It is it is poor etiquette to shoot wood ducks in the public timber, hence public. If you are on private ground, you get get them wood ducks, girl. Like, have at it. Have so much fun. But people historically hunt the flooded timber in Arkansas because it is world class or it was, once upon a time, world class mallard hunting.

Maggie:

They worked the woods. That is truly the point of the sport is to go shoot your mallards in the timber. So you really can't and also, there's just so many people packed in. There's not enough habitat. There's plenty of hunters.

Maggie:

So you're you're really limited for space. You're you're not you don't have the luxury of being alone. So you might have hunters 600 yards away, 400 yards away. So if the people that are all several 100 yards away from you, if they shoot every wood duck on the fly, nobody in the entire block of woods will ever finish Mallards. So I was taught that as a kid is poor etiquette to do on public land in Arkansas.

Maggie:

But I'm not telling anyone what to do. That's just the way I

Erin:

was That's great because that is exactly what we're talking about.

Maggie:

No. I think Yeah. Right?

Erin:

You just broke down an educational barrier that if I ever came down there, and I'm after a wood duck, my clients shoot them, and I cannot ever run into them when I'm hunting for myself. And I'm like, oh, I would have not known that. Right? But you would have, and you just shared the info, and that's what it takes.

Maggie:

My dad said their duck camp back in the eighties and nineties, they had a rule. If you wanted to kill one wood duck that year, you were allowed to kill one. And there's, like, 18 guys in camp. One per person for the entire sixty days, and you have to mount it. You can't shoot a wood duck for fun.

Maggie:

It has to be because you wanna mount it. So true.

Julia:

I've heard that. I've heard that. Being from Memphis, that's kind of a false suit.

Erin:

Yeah. I have an episode coming up with one of my girlfriends that I hunt with quite a bit, and we talk about, like, now that you found your hunting buddy, talking about the etiquette of hunting together, and the weird thing that I have is if teal, and they always do, land in the spread first, Don't you dare shoot them if you're hunting with me. Okay. Right? Because I I'm like, we see they're here all the time.

Erin:

Right? Especially the green wings. But I want to shoot those bigger ducks when I'm traveling seven hours. Right? And I have got on a landowner's private property by knocking on the door.

Erin:

Like, I don't wanna shoot teal Mhmm. That day. Not that day. So, like, yeah, hunting etiquette. I've got one coming up on that.

Maggie:

I think we could do an entire additional podcast on hunting etiquette.

Julia:

I feel like you need, like, one person from every area to do hunting etiquette because I feel like it's gonna be you're gonna get so much.

Maggie:

That would be cool. That would be good.

Julia:

That'd be really good. That'd be good.

Erin:

I bet I wonder if that exists. I mean, from women.

Julia:

Add it to the list.

Maggie:

Add it to the list.

Julia:

Let's do it. Might as well. Right? That's why we're here. Yeah.

Julia:

We're breaking down barriers. Let's go.

Erin:

I'm happy to bring Western etiquette because some of it annoys me.

Maggie:

I love to hunt out West, but I would love to learn more western etiquette because as an Arkansas girl, I only know arky standards. So

Erin:

Mhmm. Like, the one that really gets me is, you know, don't share your public land spot. And here I am, I'm like, oh, girls, you guys want to go to this like amazing spot? And it's not like my honey hole, right? But I'm like, do you want to go to this awesome spot you can continue to go to and harvest animals?

Erin:

Let's go. And then people are like, oh, I can't believe that you do that. And I'm like, why not? We gotta vote for it. We gotta buy the the licenses to support it.

Erin:

It's 48% of Colorado. Like, the West has tons of public land that we need to protect because that's where the animals live. Right? We can't just develop it and clear cut it and do all those things. But people get on to me and then I'm like, you mean, you're telling me it would be the worst day if you showed up to the trailhead and there was another woman there?

Erin:

I would be like, do we know each other? Do you wanna hunt together? Like, do you wanna go together? Let's go. You know, like, I have knowledge, you got knowledge?

Erin:

Let's go. I'll just show you. Just go with me. You know, you got the same tag? I don't care.

Erin:

Whatever.

Julia:

Facebook

Erin:

Another friend, right reason why I don't I don't fill my I didn't fill my tag I didn't fill my turkey tag this year because I let another girl shoot, you know? Like, that's that was her first turkey. Like, that's so cool. I can go back in at that anytime. It's like twenty minutes from my house, you know?

Maggie:

I love that, Erin. God forbid,

Erin:

there's can you imagine you pull up and there's like another woman, like, way back there? I would be so stoked. I would be like a high school or middle school boy.

Julia:

I'd be like, oh my god. A girl.

Erin:

A girl. Is that a girl? It's a girl. Hi. Hi.

Maggie:

You know? Honestly, I would be so stoked. I would be so stoked to run into another girl. I've read into other girls duck hunting just because, obviously, duck hunting people run-in packs. But to be turkey hunting in the woods by myself and to see another girl, I would I would hate to weird her out.

Maggie:

She would think I was a crazy person because I'd be so excited to see her. I'd like, oh my gosh.

Julia:

Or you would

Maggie:

have to take your mask off.

Julia:

You'd have to take your mask off because otherwise, she thought think you're a boy. I'm a girl. I'm a girl. I'm

Erin:

a girl. Love seeing women row boats in like hard parts of the Colorado River, and I'm

Julia:

just like, oh my gosh.

Erin:

And they're like, okay. Yeah. I'm just moving, you know.

Maggie:

Are you a drift boat girly, Erin?

Erin:

I I do row slowly

Julia:

Calm me.

Erin:

In Wyoming.

Maggie:

I will row row row your boat. I love to hunt under drift boats. You should call me. Heck yeah.

Julia:

I will go.

Erin:

Heck yeah. I love doing a cast and blast in Wyoming. That's like, that is my love language. And usually the birds get stuck up there, and there's nobody. God forbid there would be a woman in another boat on the river.

Erin:

Call me.

Maggie:

We need to we need to do this. We need to have a a trio. We we should record a podcast in person. We should all do, like, meet up, do another stationary podcast. It'd be really fun.

Erin:

The amount of shenanigans Yes. These boys would have to edit out of things.

Maggie:

I believe in us. I have faith in us.

Julia:

It would be fabulous. I like it a lot. I like this idea. I

Erin:

love the energy.

Julia:

Oh, yeah. It's good. It's good stuff. Okay. So for the last little bit, I always do rapid fire questions, and I would love to do rapid fire questions with you, Maggie, if you're okay with it.

Maggie:

Love it.

Julia:

Okay. I do it every every episode.

Maggie:

And Okay.

Julia:

This one's gonna be a little bit different. I'll have, like, two choices you can choose from.

Maggie:

Okay.

Julia:

Okay. Pink camo. Ick or iconic? Ick. Okay.

Julia:

Influencers who won't touch an animal. Real or fake vibes? Fake vibes. Okay. Borrowed gear with no clue how it works.

Julia:

Ick or forgiven? Forgiven. You gotta learn somehow. Bingo. Overedited kill photos.

Julia:

Ick or flex?

Maggie:

Depends on how it's edited. Like, if this girl's had a baby and she wants to tuck in her belly, no judgment. Don't edit the animal. But, like, I'm not gonna make fun of nobody that wants to, you know, give her their double chin.

Julia:

Love it. Love it. Okay. Lifted dirty trucks. Rugged or nasty?

Maggie:

Lifted dirty trucks. As long as it's not squatted,

Julia:

it's cold. Okay. Filming every single moment. Content queen or girl relax?

Maggie:

Girl relax. Hang up and hang out sometimes.

Julia:

K. Using your boyfriend's harvest as your own post. Real or faker?

Maggie:

That's a ick. That's

Julia:

a Okay. Then she only hunts for attention comments. Engagement mastermind or maybe some truth? Engagement mastermind. Yeah.

Julia:

Yeah. I I agree with that one because it's like, it's probably not what she's doing. Like like you said, we're probably out there doing what we wanna do. And just because somebody else takes it wrong, that's their problem, not ours.

Maggie:

I have a hot take. There are a lot easier ways to get attention on the Internet than go hunting. Hunting is a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of effort. If you go to all of that trouble and you are buying your duck stamps, you are giving back to conservation, and you are doing it for attention, I hope you fall in love with it for the right reasons.

Julia:

Hey, you're just donating to the cause at that point. I'm like, well, that sucks. This is a very expensive hobby.

Maggie:

So It's it's a very expensive hobby, but I'm like, we're glad to have you. Like, you'll find the way. You'll find your way.

Julia:

Yeah. You eventually come around. We hope. You have all the right stuff. More the merrier.

Maggie:

More the merrier. If you go duck hunting enough, you'll fall in love with it.

Julia:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ladies, I just wanna say thank you so much for joining today's episode. The laughs were really real, and I'm glad we kind of exposed some x there and got to the truth.

Julia:

If you wanna stay informed and entertained and not be, you know, a red flag on the outdoor channel, go watch this episode. Before we leave, tell everybody where they can find you, Maggie and Erin.

Maggie:

Go ahead, Erin.

Erin:

I am on Facebook and Instagram. I just started TikTok for my business. So but if you just Google Erin Kreider or on Instagram, I'm erin.broke.trail because I'm not staying on the trail or staying in line, so that's how to find me. Oh, and my sorry. My business is named Uncharted Outdoorsman.

Maggie:

Booking. I'm booking. I'm calling to book.

Julia:

I'm doing a good You just tell me the dates.

Maggie:

Deal. And you guys can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube. I am at the Maggie Williams. I'm the host of the Maggie Williams podcast. You can find it anywhere that you listen to podcasts and at the maggiewilliams.com.

Maggie:

My new book will be out by the time you guys listen to this. You can find Molly Goes Hunting, which is a book made by women for young women encouraging little girls to get involved in duck hunting.

Julia:

Oh my goodness. Thanks guys so much. Thank you again for watching Ascend podcast. Be sure to like, subscribe, and share, and follow us on all the social medias to stay tuned. I'm your host, Julia Stallings, and I'm encouraging you to follow wherever your story might take you.

Julia:

Thanks, guys.

VO:

Thank you for listening to the Ascend podcast. New every week, the conservation driven podcast one week and our adventure video series the next. Watch the Ascend adventure episodes on the Ducks Unlimited YouTube channel, and be sure to like, share, and subscribe. Opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited. Until next time, follow your outdoor story wherever it leads you. Ascend.