Beek on being

From getting their license to leaving the home for college, the dynamics between teenagers and parents shift. Independence, anxiety, expectations, new rules and roles emerge. Licensed Clinical Social Worker Jami Young and Director of College Advising Amy Shapiro are here to help you navigate this big life transition. This is Beek on being LAUNCHED.

Creators and Guests

SC
Producer
Steven Chen
Songwriter/Composer, Producer, and residenet Recording/Mixing/Mastering Engineer at Penthouse Studios Miami. Credits include: The Emmys, Tyler Perry, French Montana, Love & Hip Hop ...

What is Beek on being?

A podcast on shared humanity; discussing personal and professional perspectives. From serious to silly to sublime, coming from kindness and curiosity, it is all about connections.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Hi, I hope you are well. This podcast is a place for people to share personal and professional perspectives, talk openly and ask questions. From serious to silly to sublime, it's all about communication and connection. Always coming from a place of kindness and curiosity, we talk about shared humanity, discuss ideas, and highlight people creating a better world. We've got to keep learning, keep growing, keep being.

Melissa Shere Beek:

I'm Melissa Beek, and this is Beek on being. Today's episode is Beek on being LAUNCHED. Between getting a driver's license and leaving home for college, the dynamics for teenagers and parents shift. Independence, anxiety, new rules, and new roles. It can be exciting and exhausting.

Melissa Shere Beek:

In studio today to help you navigate through this life's big transition are licensed clinical social worker, Jami Young, and director of College Advising International College Counselors, Amy Shapiro. Welcome.

Amy Shapiro:

Hi. Happy to be here.

Melissa Shere Beek:

I'm thrilled that you both are here. This is Thank a great idea from Jamie. So please introduce yourselves and tell me a little bit about you.

Amy Shapiro:

You want go first? You're the the one who's done this

Jami Young:

yours. Okay. True. Okay. Then I can So I'm Jamie.

Jami Young:

As you said, I'm an LCSW. So that stands for licensed clinical social worker. And I have been in LCSW for, like, twenty five years now. A long time. And I have a private practice here in Miami for the last ten, fifteen years.

Melissa Shere Beek:

And how did you get into

Jami Young:

Well, originally from New York. So went to grad school there. I was working and practicing there. Then moved here to Miami, and it took a few years to kinda get it going, get it started. And like life happened and everything.

Jami Young:

But back in New York, I when I was working full time, I was lucky enough to be able to start working with people individually. I was actually working at a psych hospital at the time. And so I knew a lot of psychiatrists and and outpatient stuff. So I was able to start doing it actually really early on in my career, which was very lucky.

Melissa Shere Beek:

That's fabulous.

Amy Shapiro:

Hi. Well, my my road was not as straight. I I first started off as a publicist in a big publishing house. I was at Simon and Schuster and I was at Penguin Books.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. I can I can hear you?

Jami Young:

Yeah. Both ears. Yeah. Go ahead.

Amy Shapiro:

I just went on. Can hear both. Okay.

Jami Young:

I got it. It just went on. Great.

Amy Shapiro:

So I started off as a publicist, but I always knew I wanted to work with kids. And I didn't really know exactly how to make that happen. Mhmm. I went back to school. I was living in New York.

Amy Shapiro:

I'm from New York. And got a master's in counseling and guidance. And then, lo and behold, moved to Miami. I was working in a school in New York, moved to Miami, and worked at Gulliver Prep as a guidance and college counselor. Because at Gulliver, at the time, and now it's a little bit different, you were both.

Amy Shapiro:

And they trained me in college guidance and sent me to Harvard Institute. It was wonderful. I got a great education while working there. And then when I wanted to go part time a little bit later on, I moved to Coral Reef High School, big mega magnet, totally opposite from the Oliver, and I loved that too. And then on my third child, maternity leave, people started calling me and saying, just take my child.

Amy Shapiro:

Take my child. Just one more. So I started just kinda doing hourly college guidance. And then that turned into my own business, which later on was acquired by ICC, which is where I am now. And I I'm happy to be there.

Amy Shapiro:

I have a great team to work with and to bounce ideas off of.

Melissa Shere Beek:

That's awesome. I'm so honored to have you both here.

Jami Young:

Thank you.

Melissa Shere Beek:

We said a little bit before that, Jamie, you're the catalyst for this episode. Yes. You called me and you said, I have a great idea. And I think it's spectacular. So it's a big transition time for both students, parents.

Melissa Shere Beek:

What are some of the major aspects?

Jami Young:

Do you want me to go first?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Jami Young:

Okay. So there's definitely a few. So as I as we were talking just before we we started, there's aspects kind of in the the mid years of high school. Mhmm. Like, kind of a little bit sophomore year, but then, right, junior year, like, leading up to it.

Jami Young:

And then there's all the aspects, like, right before, and then there's the aspects of after. Whereas so professionally, I tend to see more of the ones they're at school, Whether that's the kids themselves or the families, right, and the change in the dynamics. More kind of like time sensitive is, you know, kind of like right before, like maybe, you know

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right before they leave.

Jami Young:

Right before they leave. Like anytime from like spring break to right by time, right around the time they leave because that's when it sort of starts to become real.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Sure.

Jami Young:

Right? Like maybe it's after graduation, whatever. Right. You know? So so there's definitely different aspects.

Jami Young:

And also for a fair amount of kids and families, there's a lot of anxiety in those years beforehand leading up to. So it depends kinda where in that timeline.

Melissa Shere Beek:

You get everybody. Got it. And what are you experiencing personally and professionally?

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. Good question. I was gonna say full disclosure. I am a parent to a senior in high school right now. I also have a ninth grader and a little one.

Amy Shapiro:

But

Jami Young:

it's And you're been surviving.

Amy Shapiro:

And I'm surviving. No. I I'm with you all who are in this situation. So professionally, you know, I I've always been able to kind of sympathize and understand. And like I, you know, said, my background in guidance really makes me kind of a different type of college counselor because I think a lot of people come at college counseling with statistics and numbers.

Amy Shapiro:

And it's so much more than that. So much more about fit. But I forgot the question because I'm talking about myself.

Melissa Shere Beek:

What you're experiencing personally and professionally at this launching time.

Amy Shapiro:

It's you know, there's days where I think, oh my gosh, how is she gonna survive, my daughter, in the real world? And then there's days where I think, oh my gosh, she's so ready. Yeah. And she was ready last year. I think there's lots of I'm sure everyone is her.

Amy Shapiro:

Maybe not everyone has heard this, but soiling the nest, if you've ever heard this thing. No. It's very interesting. A lot of times, senior year, kids kinda act out and are not very nice to their parents.

Melissa Shere Beek:

There's pushback.

Amy Shapiro:

Because right. Exactly. And it just makes it easier to leave. Because when you, you know, quote unquote, like, when a birdie soils their their nest and they have to get out and everyone's so happy they're gone, I am you know, I see I've always seen that with my students where parents will call me and be like, what do I do? They're so snappy.

Amy Shapiro:

I I'm trying to help. I don't know how to do that because they want me involved, but they don't. Right. You know, a little bits and pieces I've seen at home as well. Nothing, you know, nothing really crazy.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Anything different with your with your clients?

Amy Shapiro:

No. I it's funny. It's like, I've always watched it and then having it in my own home. And it's little things like, what do you want for breakfast? Why do you always ask

Melissa Shere Beek:

me what I want for breakfast? Well, because, you know and that's

Amy Shapiro:

it it's great. And my daughter

Melissa Shere Beek:

Standard question.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. She catches herself. That's what's so funny. She catches herself because she's a great kid.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Do you think that they do that though because they know it's a safe place for them to vent? That they know you're gonna love them unconditionally, and so they sort of let out that steam or that anxiety because they know they can sort of drop that on you and you're not going to turn on them as they say, make maybe an acquaintance or a friend would be like, what's with the attitude?

Amy Shapiro:

100%. Yeah. Okay. I actually it's funny you said that. The other day, I had a student just so nasty over Zoom.

Amy Shapiro:

Like she snapped at me about something And it flew out of my I said, I'm not your mom.

Melissa Shere Beek:

You can't

Amy Shapiro:

speak to me

Melissa Shere Beek:

that way. Right. This is a professional interaction, not a personal one.

Amy Shapiro:

You know, I know her well enough to be able to say that. Yeah. We've had each other even

Melissa Shere Beek:

before comfortable with you.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. And she just burst into laughter. You know, we were backing up. And I said I said, I don't even wanna know. You know, it just it's normal.

Amy Shapiro:

It's natural. And I think we have to laugh at ourselves and step back.

Melissa Shere Beek:

I think humor is like the key

Jami Young:

to survive. Yes.

Amy Shapiro:

So it's hard.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So Jamie, you're not at that point just yet, but you you've had some changes that your children are independent now. They're driving.

Jami Young:

Mhmm.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So there's that beginning of transition where they've got more independence.

Jami Young:

Mhmm.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Do you set new rules, new boundaries, new roles?

Jami Young:

Yeah, for sure. And and, you know, as as as we say at home, like, we're figuring this out too.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Okay.

Jami Young:

You know? So kinda realizing, like, oh, okay, that didn't work so

Amy Shapiro:

hard. Right.

Jami Young:

Right? Like like that, you know, or like that was too much or that was, you know, not enough.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

But but, yeah, definitely. Like, this is the age, the age of 16, when there's when there's definitely a lot of change, driving is definitely a big one. Yeah. It's like ninth grade, they're like, still little. There's like not much happening.

Jami Young:

And then all of sudden, tenth grade, right, Like, for the most part, if that's the year they turn 16. Right. Because then, like, junior year is like all about SATs. They

Melissa Shere Beek:

say Right.

Jami Young:

All of that kind

Melissa Shere Beek:

The pace of it, I

Jami Young:

think,

Melissa Shere Beek:

So picks it's

Jami Young:

a yeah. So it's a it's a big jump from beginning of the year to the end of the year in terms of like what transpires, you know? And then along with driving comes like lots of other subjects. Then you're like really talking about like the phones, drinking, money. Right?

Jami Young:

Like opening checking accounts. Do they have a credit card? Like all of those Right. Kinds of things. Like with that freedom obviously comes a

Melissa Shere Beek:

whole A lot more responsibility.

Jami Young:

Lot more responsibility that like all of a sudden they're like, what?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Like why can't you do

Jami Young:

that Like for what is all of it? I thought I was just gonna get to drive around. Right? Right. And then you start thinking about the tasks, you know, the things that they're gonna need a couple years from now to be able to do on their own.

Jami Young:

Right. Meaning literally on their own, like, without us home there to do it if needed. And, you know, and and then are they gonna start working? Like, what are they doing with their time? Because it's not just play dates anymore.

Jami Young:

Right. You know?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Amy, what are you experiencing with that? Because you already had one go through or maybe both Your Okay.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. So my oldest, the driving piece, yes. She same thing. We went through that. So everything Jamie said is a 100% what I would say.

Amy Shapiro:

I have a ninth grader as well who has his permit. So, you know, we're we're dealing with that.

Melissa Shere Beek:

You're gonna start this process all over again.

Amy Shapiro:

And what's funny, there's certain things well, you know, we all have very different types of kids. I mean, like, you know, they're never exactly the same. And I'm sure twins are the same. Right? Like, totally different.

Amy Shapiro:

Right.

Jami Young:

Two different people.

Melissa Shere Beek:

And Yeah. Right.

Amy Shapiro:

So there's certain things I've learned, but then other things are completely different. I will say, in terms of the independence, there's things that I feel lucky to have picked up on from what parents have told me what they're going through.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Oh, that's great.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. Like one thing I had a a student who was the younger sibling of of somebody who already graduated. And I was talking to the mom about something else. And she said, hold on. I have to get on the phone and call the pharmacy because my daughter's prescription needs to be sent to her.

Amy Shapiro:

I said, what? And I realized she was talking about the older child. So she was dealing with her daughter's prescription

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Amy Shapiro:

In another state. And I said, you know, I'll just make up a name. I said, isn't Annie like, isn't she getting her own prescription? She said, well, I had to step in because of insurance. Like,

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Amy Shapiro:

It's so important. And and I do believe that this mom had to step in because there was all this stuff going on. But it's so important for these kids. If you have a reoccurring prescription Yeah. They need to know how to get to that prescript you know, how do what do I do?

Amy Shapiro:

What number do I call if Right. The insurance is saying it they won't take it. You know, these are things I really need think about. Because we think about, like, teaching your kid to do the laundry

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Amy Shapiro:

And making sure they have enough money in their checking account

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Amy Shapiro:

And, you know, paying their bills. But like, insurance is a big one.

Melissa Shere Beek:

It's also practical advice because like you said, they're living independently. They have to take care of all of these things for themselves.

Jami Young:

But so let me say something about that. So, yes, you're absolutely right. Those are the kinds of things that we don't think about. However, and this is gonna come up in a lot with the questions you asked me. There is so much that they have to deal with, like once they go away.

Jami Young:

Like forget about even the age thing, once I turn 18 and then like, because that's even a whole complicated. But like like you said, like, the insurance like, why did the mom have to step in? Because as we know as adults, how complicated some of this is now. You can't get people on the phone. Right.

Jami Young:

Right?

Melissa Shere Beek:

You spend the whole day calling.

Jami Young:

Right. You spend the whole day and and you get nowhere. And then only to find out that it's out of stock.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right? Right.

Jami Young:

And so then or the next pharmacy tells you that they have it in stock, but they don't really because Right. By the time you get through, it's the next day. Right?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

So it is so complicated

Melissa Shere Beek:

that And to think in advance of all those

Amy Shapiro:

things. Yeah.

Jami Young:

And so it's not like when we were on school where it's like you called one phone number to one pharmacy and like, and it was there.

Melissa Shere Beek:

It was

Jami Young:

no big deal. And so it was a skill you could teach them

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

And expect them to do on their own. When now, it's so complex. And maybe one month is okay, but then the next three months are a mess.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. So what does support look like from a distance then? Instead of like, you know, you're you're home they're home, you're able to provide daily support. But now that they've left or they're going to college, like, what does support from a distance look like?

Jami Young:

I think it really, really varies.

Amy Shapiro:

Yes. That's exactly what was gonna say.

Jami Young:

I think that for the most part, like, there's healthy expectations.

Amy Shapiro:

Mhmm.

Jami Young:

But that is really important to keep in mind, like, what are you actually expecting? Like, let's use the

Melissa Shere Beek:

example. Right?

Jami Young:

Mhmm. Like like, perfectly reasonable to say Right. Like, okay, you're you now need to be, like, in charge of of your prescription every Right? Totally valid. Except what happens when there's complications.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Right? So and we're we as like the parents, like, we're gonna make the mistakes of like when to step in. Right? And so then we're gonna get yelled at. Right?

Jami Young:

Don't step in yet. Right. And then and then if it goes on for too long, right?

Melissa Shere Beek:

When do you back out?

Jami Young:

Right. And so, another one that's a really big one that that this is a common thing that I hear on the other side once kids have gone to school is the housing.

Amy Shapiro:

Mhmm.

Jami Young:

Right? It's so complicated Yeah. Because there's such a shortage of housing. Right. So half of these kids are not in the dorm.

Jami Young:

They're in apartments. They're in apartments off campus. They're dealing with leases and stuff. Yeah. Like, that's

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Big stuff. That's big stuff.

Jami Young:

That is like, we're all of a sudden expecting like 18 year olds to like navigate this they're in school.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Yeah. Right? So these are like skills that like can't really teach.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. Until they happen.

Jami Young:

You can't really Until they happen and having them navigate that boundary of like, when do I step in? Yeah. When do I not step in? And and and again Right. Validating for all of us like, this is the first time we're doing this.

Jami Young:

Right. And and

Melissa Shere Beek:

So it's teaching moment for everyone. Absolutely. And there's a learning curve.

Amy Shapiro:

And there's some of this stuff that can be I don't wanna say avoided, but you can help prepare. Perfect example. And actually, this is not a client. It's it's a friend. But her daughter got into, like, her dream school, but for spring semester.

Amy Shapiro:

And they were deciding. They called like, what do

Jami Young:

you what

Amy Shapiro:

do you think I should do? What do you think? And I said, well, you know, because they were worried most about, you know, the freshman experience. And I said, but that's one thing and it's very different from, you know, in the nineties and early two thousands when people started spring semester. It wasn't as common.

Amy Shapiro:

I think it's much more common now. So get out of your head about what it was like for us.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Amy Shapiro:

Number one. But number two, you know, this college happens to have spring rush. Does that mean that this student is gonna have a harder time? Or maybe it'll be easier for her to walk in and not knowing I don't know. Right.

Amy Shapiro:

But like, you know, think about, right, the housing thing. Are they gonna guarantee her housing for a second semester? Is that do they have spring scholar? Like, all these things.

Jami Young:

Right. All these factors.

Amy Shapiro:

Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So So what kind of expectations do you have for them? Or or what are your clients saying their parents have expectations for their children?

Amy Shapiro:

What do you mean?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Well, like we talked about Jamie saying it's a learning curve. And that we're learning as we're going for all these things. But prior to them experiencing those things, housing because they're not on campus yet, what expectations do your parent parents say that they have for their children going? Are they thinking about just practical skills? Or are they talking about all of the other things about housing?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Are they aware of that? Maybe they don't know until their child gets there? Like Yeah. I think What are their expectations?

Amy Shapiro:

I think their expectations are sometimes we don't talk enough about what it could look like, so they're not even aware of what they should be. Okay. I mean, that was a perp like the sorority stuff. Like, the the parents hadn't even thought about sorority.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. What I'm saying. They don't they don't even know enough to ask.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. Right. And I think, you know, that's something I don't know how to avoid that without saying, like, come to me and I'll tell you all the things that

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Right.

Amy Shapiro:

Could come up.

Jami Young:

Well, in a way, but it's also saying that it's like the focus, and this is gonna open up a can of worms, but like, especially in those, you know, couple of years beforehand, is so focused on the grades, the scores. What are the schools that we're applying to? The things like the housing, the Greek life.

Melissa Shere Beek:

It's not even thought of.

Jami Young:

It's not even thought of until if it's even thought of at all until the last minute.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Which is not great.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Yeah. You know? And and and that's if it's even thought of at all.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. So you talked a little bit about both of you before about the anxieties and the fears. Can you can you expand a little bit more about, like, what the children are expressing, either personally or professionally, and also what the parents are expressing about their anxieties and fears? And are they just talking to you all or are they talking to each other?

Amy Shapiro:

I I think I mean, I don't know. Maybe Jamie can talk more clinically about this. But I think my students compared to twenty years ago are so much more anxious. I mean, I know we have Yeah. You know, the anxious generation and that whole thing.

Melissa Shere Beek:

You think the rules have changed for them, though?

Amy Shapiro:

Yes. And I also have

Melissa Shere Beek:

to What are they tell anxious about?

Amy Shapiro:

The college process

Jami Young:

Mhmm.

Amy Shapiro:

I'm telling you is so much more complicated

Jami Young:

Oh, yes.

Amy Shapiro:

Than it was when even when Meaning I started doing

Jami Young:

they're anxious while they're working with you on work. Yeah. Right. As opposed to, like, they're anxious about socializing in college. Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Amy Shapiro:

Exactly. It's more I mean, the rules change every single year. You know, who's test optional? Who's who what who's really test optional? Who's you know, all these things.

Amy Shapiro:

I don't know any other profession. I mean, I really don't that the rules change every single year. If not multiple times during the year where I'll think one I mean, Michigan, perfect example not to pick on them. But, you know, they added early decision. What did that mean when they did it?

Amy Shapiro:

We didn't really know. We assumed it was gonna be like every other school that it would make it'd be easier to get in Right. If you were applying early decision. However, months into the process, we heard, oh, we really did that to weed out our in state kids who didn't really wanna come here. Well, why hide?

Amy Shapiro:

Right. Because, you know, if, you know, a normal counselor is gonna see early decision and assume

Melissa Shere Beek:

It's binding and committed.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. Is giving the the message that, you know, it should it should be easier, quote unquote, to get in.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Because you're making this sort of commitment upfront. Exactly. Right. So guarantees that you're going to be a student.

Amy Shapiro:

Exactly. And maybe maybe in the end I mean, the season is not over. But maybe in the end, those kids that applied early decision will get in in greater numbers than the kids who did Right. Non binding options. But it wasn't as clear cut as that.

Amy Shapiro:

And it's it's very difficult for families to navigate that when even the professionals don't

Jami Young:

Mhmm.

Amy Shapiro:

Have all the

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Amy Shapiro:

You know?

Jami Young:

We don't have crystal balls.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So the kids are expressing more anxiety prior? Yes. Just about the whole formality of getting in, taking tests, everything that goes with that. Are the parents experiencing that stress along with them? Or they're more concerned about their social game later when they go to school and how they're going to make friends and adjust in a dorm and get to classes on time and

Amy Shapiro:

I think the parents are dealing with it at the same time

Melissa Shere Beek:

as Same time. Okay.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. And it's tough. And I always say, I think a lot of my parents need Jamie more than me. Because, you know, there's only so much I can do with a masters in counseling. I think sometimes they need like a real MSW.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So how do you help parents navigate that? Like, when you see that this is really too much for both parents and children to handle and maybe their communication skills aren't so great. Like how do you help the parents and the children navigate those deep fears or anxieties?

Amy Shapiro:

You know, I try exactly as I said, I try to step in and say, crystal ball.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Amy Shapiro:

Let's talk this through. I try to break things up into smaller pieces. Right. So sometimes

Melissa Shere Beek:

More palatable.

Amy Shapiro:

Exactly. Sometimes and parents I know because I'm one of them. We wanna do something, but there's not really so much you can do when it's not you applying to college. But things like checking your child's email. I know that sounds crazy, but these kids, they don't check their email because they're not used to it.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. So a lot of times, you know, a college will send a reminder, your transcript is missing or something. If a parent ever says to me, you know, what can I do? I need something to do. I say, just go into their email.

Amy Shapiro:

And the kids are very happy to, like, give that to them. That's a tangible item.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. And Jamie, what are your student what are your clients, you know, both patients and students, you see it more after the fact once they go to college or do you are they expressing this sort of stress and anxiety to you?

Jami Young:

Well, in general, would say, yes. I see it more like after. Mhmm. You know, like like so more often than not, I will get the calls either from the kid themselves or the parent once they're at school and having a hard time.

Amy Shapiro:

Got

Jami Young:

it. But I have a few high schoolers that I work with. And and every now and then, there's a short term thing, like I said, like, maybe in, you know, the four or five months before a high school senior leaves.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Sort of an acute situation.

Jami Young:

The high schoolers now, what I hear is, like, the stress of the SAT, you know. And

Melissa Shere Beek:

that heard that from my sisters.

Jami Young:

It's their own AP course in itself. Right. So that's what I hear is just like the pressure of the work and having to do it. Right. That's where that stress is.

Jami Young:

At least that's what I hear. It's not necessarily projected forward

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Again, yet, you know.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. Well, they're at the first step, so Right.

Jami Young:

Right. Exactly. So that's like where that focus and then just the relief, like, all the work that like comes with all of the applications.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. You know? And balancing that with everything else between school and work and after school activities Right. And life.

Jami Young:

Right. Right. Exactly. Got it. So whereas, again, later on, once they're at school, then

Melissa Shere Beek:

More social situation.

Jami Young:

Yes. Yeah. Pretty much.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Okay.

Jami Young:

But yeah. Yeah. As far as the kids go, you know.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So what do you advise, Amy, about students finding a college or university that's a good fit for them?

Amy Shapiro:

Such a good question. Well, think about everything from weather, you know. Do I especially for my Florida kids. It's so funny.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Somebody should've told me that way earlier.

Jami Young:

You

Amy Shapiro:

know? It's so funny. So as, you know, born and bred New Yorker, that never occurred to me. I never thought about weather as a determining factor. It was more like, oh, yeah.

Amy Shapiro:

It's nice to be in, you know, warm weather, but it wasn't a reason whether or not to go to college. I can't tell you how many kids from Florida I've had go up north and come back.

Jami Young:

Because it's a very hard adjustment.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. So I think being realistic with what your tolerance is. Agree. The other thing is culturally, you know, it's Miami is a melting pot of cultures. You know, we have, you know, incredible Latin American population that is not the same in other places, even in big cities.

Amy Shapiro:

So it's hard to it's sometimes hard culturally and socially for for kids to find their people. You know? That's Right.

Jami Young:

And even just adjust to the change. Yeah. Like, things that they don't think of like that. Right. Know, you you get there and then, like, it is a change.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Your expectations in real life are different from what it looked like on the paper.

Amy Shapiro:

Mhmm. My kids from the Northeast, my students, have a much easier time adjusting to

Melissa Shere Beek:

Florida?

Amy Shapiro:

Yes. And also just Southern life. Yeah. You know, the kids who like, whether it's Emory or Duke or Mhmm. You know, Tulane or anyone Elon, something, they have a much easier time adjusting than my students from here who go up to Boston and other places up north.

Amy Shapiro:

I mean, especially Upstate New York. It's it's really interesting.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yep. How do you address like, how should parents how do you help parents watch the level of involvement? Like, how much should they be involved in the process of the SATs or in filling out applications or any of those things?

Jami Young:

So I would say that's an easy question.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. It's an easy question. You know, like how much should they

Melissa Shere Beek:

get involved?

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. I mean, I'm rethinking what I said about the checking of email, you know. I don't wanna encourage people to always check their kid's email, but it's something you can remind your kid. So that's one But no. I think parents they how much?

Amy Shapiro:

I think it ebbs and flows. I I always say, if a student cannot fill out, physically fill out their own applications, then maybe they are not ready to go to college right now.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Amy Shapiro:

Like a good amount.

Jami Young:

That's a good right. I mean, that's

Amy Shapiro:

And I'm not saying, you know and I have had actually, two years ago, I had a student exactly like that who just wasn't ready. He just wasn't ready. And and it kinda came out in working together. And he ended up getting into schools and then deferring a year, and it worked out, I mean, perfectly. Like, he just needed another year to, like, cook because

Melissa Shere Beek:

To cook.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. He couldn't he couldn't come, you know, get things get things on his own. And why send us a kid like that out into the real world?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Who's not ready.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. But, yeah. I I think, like Jamie was saying before about it depends on the escalation, you know, how something that, you know, you need parent involvement with. And I think it changes with every kid.

Jami Young:

Right. And every year. Yes.

Melissa Shere Beek:

True. True. Because each kid's totally different.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. And I think the hardest part, is what and I feel like I'm talking a lot, so I'm sorry.

Melissa Shere Beek:

No. I love hearing all of it. Keep I

Amy Shapiro:

think the hardest part of this process, and I speak personally as well, is that we all worry what other people think, you know, is going to to be, like, especially supposed to look like. Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. But it's so different for every single kid and every single person.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. Yeah. And we all know intellectually that, like, you know, we're adults. Things work out.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Amy Shapiro:

The student doesn't get into the school they thought they were always gonna go to and

Jami Young:

Or the picking the major. That's that's another subject that comes up Yeah. Where, like, the stress is. Again, like, the high schoolers, like, aren't really thinking about that.

Melissa Shere Beek:

And how many 18 year olds really know what they wanna do for the rest of their lives?

Jami Young:

Did you change your major?

Amy Shapiro:

I yes. I was I

Melissa Shere Beek:

changed my major.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. Yeah.

Jami Young:

You started out as a publicist. Right? Working as a publicist? Yeah. Like like Right.

Jami Young:

I went to school for communications also. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, one of the things that I end up saying, which is probably a little to Amy more like your life, is I'm like, you don't, like, you don't have to do your major. Like, what if

Melissa Shere Beek:

you graduate or you graduate?

Jami Young:

I have juniors and seniors in college that I work with that are now freaking out wanting to do like, change their major for, like, the third time Right. And are facing another three years of school. Right. Because they're like, but I don't wanna do that. And it's like, do you wanna finish or do you, you know,

Melissa Shere Beek:

And life like experience as a teacher in and So of it's like you can meander because things change your path.

Jami Young:

Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

You didn't know that they existed before. Sure of it.

Jami Young:

Yeah. Is now so, like, rigid Yeah. And stressful that it's very hard for them to see, so that then it becomes super overwhelming. Sure. So that then something like a gap year that might have helped or they didn't even necessarily need three years earlier, now all of a sudden, it's happening junior year Right.

Jami Young:

In college. And again, this is where. Right. This is

Amy Shapiro:

where you come Right.

Jami Young:

But these are the things that are happening.

Amy Shapiro:

Where do you think that comes from, though? Because I think sometimes there's this thing I have parents say to me all the time, I don't want my child being an x y z major because they're never gonna get a job. I I don't wanna support them when they're

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right there. The stress of the parent.

Amy Shapiro:

But do you think it's the parent? Or do you think it's parent?

Melissa Shere Beek:

I think it's a mix of peers, society, and parents. I mean, I I always said to my kids because family members would say, Well, what if they need to do this because, you know, they need to get a job, they have to have security and stuff like that. And I would say, Well, one, it's not their passion. And two, they may be going to school and working in a field that we don't even know exists at this time because, you know, with technology and things changed so quickly since my kids were in school. I said, we we have no idea what they're gonna become or what they're gonna do because the jobs for maybe what they're learning or what they will learn don't even exist at this point right So it was really hard to navigate an unknown at that point too and sort of pigeonhole yourself because I personally always said, Try everything.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Do everything. And see what you like and where it takes you before you make any sort of decision. And you could still change your mind. Nothing's written in stone. So I kind of went with that attitude.

Melissa Shere Beek:

I followed their lead. But I feel that they get a lot of pressure from their friends. They get a lot of pressure from parents or other family members. And they get a lot of pressure from what they're hearing back from universities and colleges. Can you commit to this?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Can you do this? So I feel like they're they sort of they're channeled in a direction that maybe not right for them.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. I couldn't agree more. And I you're

Jami Young:

And too soon to pick. Too soon to choose.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Too young to know. Yeah. Don't have enough life experience yet.

Amy Shapiro:

Abs absolutely. And that whole idea of, you know, we're preparing for jobs that we don't even know about. That's the whole reason that liberal arts colleges are so Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

That's why they exist.

Amy Shapiro:

And it is so frustrating how many times I hear, well, I'll let my child look at this, this, and this as long as it's not a liberal arts education. Like, it's a dirty word. And it's, you know, it's that is a very tough part of my job. Because as a parent, I wanna say exactly what you said. But on the other hand, you know, I'm happy to meet anyone where they are.

Amy Shapiro:

And if that's their philosophy, like, then let's do it.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Is there a huge dichotomy between parents and children when they come to you with their expectations? Like, does the child secretly say the dirty word liberal arts? No. And the parents No.

Jami Young:

They don't know.

Amy Shapiro:

They're terrified.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Are they really?

Amy Shapiro:

Yes. Don't

Melissa Shere Beek:

know if you I

Jami Young:

would say that's specifically, that doesn't come up.

Melissa Shere Beek:

But your your your students are saying that they're terrified to go to liberal arts?

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. Because, well, I think there's also other connotations now with,

Melissa Shere Beek:

you There's know lots of

Amy Shapiro:

other stuff going on. Oh, god. Exactly. Kind of equate it Oh, it.

Jami Young:

And whatever they hear in their high schools

Melissa Shere Beek:

too. Exactly.

Jami Young:

Like, for me, that's a little bit more academic than unless that was in particular an issue

Melissa Shere Beek:

for

Jami Young:

one kid, I would say that's more the academic realm than than what I would necessarily hear.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Okay. We're And talking about kids of different ages. So Jamie, you have twins. Mhmm. And you have three at different ages.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So when you talk about, you know, parents who have children of different ages, you're sort of easing them out of the nest one by one. Mhmm. When it's time for you, you're gonna have both leave at the same time. Yay. So is that a yay?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Or is it is I it

Jami Young:

have no idea.

Melissa Shere Beek:

You have no but how does it look from a different position? Like, because now you're middle. Yeah. Drastic for But at least you're easing into it. Your middle child now is sort of gonna be like the older child and Yeah.

Melissa Shere Beek:

And the and the younger one sort of has a different dynamic now.

Jami Young:

Mhmm.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So what are the expectations of that? For yourself, like, is your identity as a parent going to change when both your girls are out of the house? But you still have you're still in the process. You're starting back to square one again.

Jami Young:

And I'm fine

Melissa Shere Beek:

with And you're going through you're okay with it.

Jami Young:

Well, I don't think my let's put it this way. Whatever my situation is as opposed to someone else, like, everyone's, quote, identity is apparent is going to change.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Change. Yeah.

Jami Young:

I'm gonna say as it should. Right. Because it is a big change. And in order to, like, make that transition, and this something I talk about in my practice a lot. Like like, the big, quote, milestones, right, or legit, like, should be acknowledged.

Jami Young:

Like, they're they're supposed to be

Melissa Shere Beek:

bumping This is what you've been raising them to do to Right.

Jami Young:

But even like in in our lives too. Yeah. So so so, yes. For me, it is assuming both are not home, like both go, like, yeah, who knows? Like, that definitely, like, be more more drastic than if there was another one at home.

Jami Young:

That being said, in in talking about sort of what it looks like now and in like the couple of years before, I mean, my case, like my two are very close and have done pretty much everything together their whole lives. Like that is starting to change.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Jami Young:

Right? And I'm gonna go with, that's good for them. That's important. But especially if they go to separate schools, like, I don't want that to then be drastic.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

So this is when those things are starting to shift.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Pursuing different Right.

Jami Young:

So so even there, the dynamics start to change as far as like, you know, going in separate directions, different likes, different thing, you know

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

To set the stage for that. So it just happens maybe a little bit earlier and a little bit different.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Okay. And how are the dynamics changing in your house?

Amy Shapiro:

They've actually started chain they started changing even a year ago. Mhmm. And I was really shocked because I am one of three as well. And I am the oldest. I I wonder if this is how it was in my own home.

Amy Shapiro:

But as a kid, I don't maybe you don't internalize these things. I'm telling you, I mean, both my son and my younger daughter, I at least once a week, there will be some comment about this, you know, it's the last, like, this that we're having. And I it's really and, like, my youngest has started every night before she goes to bed. She goes over to my oldest room and said, you know, like, because they share a bathroom. Right.

Amy Shapiro:

You know, and like, it's good night. I wanna make sure you're going to bed soon. Like, I it's so

Jami Young:

Like, very aware of the upcoming

Amy Shapiro:

And she knows. And she and like, they've sometimes it's funny. Like, they'll joke, like, yeah, you know, when when Sarah leaves, they'll you know, Heather's gonna take over Sarah's closet and the whole thing. And and it's it's funny. And then there's a point of like

Melissa Shere Beek:

Oh, it's But I would never Oh, she will.

Jami Young:

Oh, I know.

Amy Shapiro:

It already happens.

Melissa Shere Beek:

I'm one of three also and the oldest, and my sisters, like, came in with garbage bags and just took everything off of my shelves and took everything in my closet. And my mother said, what are you doing? And they both said, well, she's gone. We're taking her stuff. And I love them and adore them.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. But then they would show up at the airport wearing my things, had my things. And eventually, the room wasn't mine anymore. They took over my room. That's really funny.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So wait. She your youngest might say that now, but it might very intriguing Right. When the where there's no policing of that room anymore.

Jami Young:

Right. Right. Oh, yeah. And then the middle one I mean, your middle one, I guess, is your son. But the middle one then becomes the quote, oldest.

Jami Young:

Oh, yeah. Oh, comes. Total change. Or if there's I mean, in your case, there's two more, but if you have two kids, then once one leaves,

Amy Shapiro:

They're the only.

Jami Young:

One right. Then they're the only and that's a total change. It's a change for the kid, it's a change for the parents. Yeah. Know, change all around.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. Definitely. I only have two and they're very close in age. But when the eldest one left, I feel like the the younger one probably thought that she was being smothered a lot more. And she's like, can I go visit her?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Can I go? And I like, yeah yeah yeah, you can. Yeah. But I I realized looking back as a parent, I was probably literally sitting on top of her, like, you know, still adjusting to the the first one that so so have you discussed practical skills? Like, we talked a little bit earlier about finances or doing laundry, like basic sort of things.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Have you discussed that with your daughter? Definitely.

Amy Shapiro:

You know, my husband probably more so than me because he grew up in a household where like there was always a discussion of, you know, your bank account is this and you have to budget them, whatever. Not to you know, just a different way of life for me. I just didn't have that.

Jami Young:

Right.

Amy Shapiro:

So he's always been much more like that. And the prescription thing, it's funny. I I have been anytime there's something that needs to be picked up at the pharmacy, I'm always like, you need to go get it because you need to get used to this. Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

That's Yeah.

Amy Shapiro:

You know, even just saying like your birth date and all these things like

Jami Young:

Mhmm.

Amy Shapiro:

Things that I think we as adults take for granted sometimes. Right. And even calling someone on the phone. Right. Because these kids don't call on the phone as much like

Jami Young:

customer service. Yeah. They don't know what, like Yeah.

Melissa Shere Beek:

A residence hall Right. Phone

Amy Shapiro:

Right. Well, I don't even know if they have those anymore.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Oh, I know. I'm dating myself. Used to be a pay phone at the end of the hall. So So we talk about like their mental and physical well-being.

Jami Young:

Mhmm.

Melissa Shere Beek:

And you're both in the professions. Have you talked to them about using college, know, campus resources for when they're feeling stressed out or when about safety on campus? Like, are those kind of discussions talked about as well?

Jami Young:

Yes. I would say the safety part for me, no. Okay. That's not

Melissa Shere Beek:

You're not there yet.

Amy Shapiro:

Right.

Jami Young:

Yeah. Right. Right. Whereas maybe for Amy and the applying, you know. Right.

Jami Young:

As far as for, like, most schools, like, pretty much every school will like will have a counseling center. Right. But they are short term only. Right. They are not long term.

Jami Young:

Right. So so for example, for some of the high schoolers that I do work with, it's I try my best to set it up as much as possible, but I make it clear to them Mhmm. You know, that there's always an option of having a therapist wherever they are.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Right? Like, let's say they're going to a major city. Let's say they're going to whatever. Like, you know, Atlanta, even Gainesville now, you know, Boston, whatever. Right.

Jami Young:

You know, if they want help in setting that up before they go, great. You know, I can help with that. And if they don't, then what I do is I do my best to like show them like how to get Help. Referrals. Right.

Jami Young:

Like, most of the big schools will have links on their website. Like, you have to work to get to it.

Amy Shapiro:

Right.

Jami Young:

It's not it's not the counseling

Melissa Shere Beek:

No. Have find it.

Jami Young:

It's like, right. It's a link to like outside resources. Right. That will have a lot of Right. Local therapists, local resources.

Jami Young:

So I do that with my seniors. Uh-huh. Again, if if they want it, and maybe sometimes a little bit even if they don't.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Just so

Jami Young:

that they know

Melissa Shere Beek:

Well, they need to be aware of it because what if something happens on campus and they need help immediately and, you know and and even if they're seeing a therapist in town as opposed to on Zoom or far away and they they just need a resource or help then. They need to know how to navigate that. Yeah. And safety.

Amy Shapiro:

And some schools are are better than others in terms of what they have as mental health resources.

Melissa Shere Beek:

I agree with that.

Amy Shapiro:

It's really interesting. And for so for me, I'm not usually the one to go into that direction, but I I do help. I I have a lot of students who have learning differences. Mhmm. That's kind of like my thing.

Amy Shapiro:

I I love working with students who, you know, have dyslexia and all sorts of different things like that. So I help them make sure that they not only will have their services set up when they get into college, but like who to go to if they need to get retested or Right. Who to advocate, you know. And and also knowing every college knowing what the accommodation is really gonna look like at the college. Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Different at the high school level.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. And some of these kids, you know, they go to big public high schools where you really have to advocate. You need a parent. You there's a lot of paperwork. There's a lot of, you know, smaller programs, especially in Miami where like, yeah, they do the paperwork, but you don't, you know, you don't really have to advocate for yourself.

Amy Shapiro:

It's just kinda done.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So how do you teach them to be self sufficient like that? It's just just the planning in advance for everything that you're aware of

Jami Young:

it? On air.

Amy Shapiro:

On Oh,

Melissa Shere Beek:

So what are some of the other challenges you think that you know that they're facing or that you've heard of that they're facing once they get to college?

Amy Shapiro:

Oh, I have a sad one.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Oh, no. Okay.

Amy Shapiro:

I have heard and I don't know what it is this year, but I four students who did not get into either a sorority or fraternity. And actually, that's why it was on my mind to say this to the parent who was deciding about it. Right. I don't know what is going on. I think that fraternity life is just more popular than it was or it's becoming because of the show that Alabama

Jami Young:

Oh. Whatever.

Amy Shapiro:

And these this is not No.

Jami Young:

But I'm gonna say something about that. You're onto something.

Amy Shapiro:

It's it's like this, like I I don't know. So it's harder and harder to get into that type of house. I mean, I can speak personally at Tulane when I went there. Everyone got in a house. There was no maybe you didn't get into your first choice, but you were so happy because you got in your second and the second was great.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. Now, I mean, I

Melissa Shere Beek:

But everybody was accepted.

Amy Shapiro:

Everyone was accepted. And it was like part I mean, I was rushed here. Like, was Yeah. Of course, everyone got in somewhere. If that is not happening now.

Amy Shapiro:

And it's not just Tulane. I mean, I had a student at BU who didn't get, you know like, these are schools that you also wouldn't associate with, like, everyone's in a sorority

Jami Young:

or fraternity.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Right. So what were you saying?

Jami Young:

So I was gonna say the biggest issue that that I see, like, because obviously they're coming to me with certain struggles, is the isolation. Okay? So and that could be for any

Melissa Shere Beek:

A multitude.

Jami Young:

Right. A multitude of reasons. But if if that's a huge problem and a huge struggle, then you also add the sheer number kids in schools, right, just in general. Right? That is probably why Greek life is becoming such, like, it always was like a big thing, but maybe it wasn't like, you know, there was always something to kinda balance it

Melissa Shere Beek:

out. Right.

Jami Young:

It was like there was enough to go around

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Whatever. Because if without it, they seem to not have anything. Right?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Why? There's no other way for socialization like either art groups or architecture groups or

Jami Young:

friends, again, from when we went. But remember there's this now

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Jami Young:

Being the phone.

Melissa Shere Beek:

That's the worst.

Jami Young:

Right? So, like, there's it's it's not the same. And and if you're in a sorority, then it is provided Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

To you.

Melissa Shere Beek:

That's true.

Amy Shapiro:

That's As

Jami Young:

opposed to having to

Melissa Shere Beek:

Search it out with clubs or different things. Figure it

Jami Young:

out on your own. And then find other people that you like

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

That are not over there. So That's so interesting. Right. It's hard. And then, of course, you have the kids who, like, get in spring semester who maybe whatever.

Jami Young:

Right? Either spring, you know, or or the kids who spent the first year, you know, like, off campus. Like, it's all over the place. Yeah. So all of that

Melissa Shere Beek:

what goes are your students telling you? Are there things in campus to help them if they aren't in sorority? Or are they just you're dealing with them personally to navigate the isolation or the loneliness?

Jami Young:

Yeah. I would say more the isolation and the loneliness because by the time it's sort of at that point

Melissa Shere Beek:

Mhmm.

Jami Young:

They're obviously having difficulty doing it. Yeah.

Melissa Shere Beek:

It's a level of difficulty that

Jami Young:

needs Like, be what's there. Yeah. You know? And obviously, that's harder because, like, I'm not, like, there at the school, so

Melissa Shere Beek:

I don't So fully

Jami Young:

but, yeah, that is definitely what I see wanted,

Melissa Shere Beek:

like Okay.

Jami Young:

The biggest thing. Like and it's not just not fitting in.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. No. It's loneliness.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa Shere Beek:

It's total loneliness.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. The phone is such a good point because the one of the parents actually said to me, oh, it's because her Instagram wasn't good enough. That's why she didn't get in. Mean Oh, no. Really?

Amy Shapiro:

Right. But I think, you know, there's something to be said for yeah. That's apparently what happens. They that's part of the process is looking at someone's social media.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Is it really? Yes.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. We didn't have any of that. No.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Oh, no. Thank god.

Jami Young:

Alright.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Thank God. Oh, wow. That's heartbreaking to learn that though.

Jami Young:

Yeah. So that's what so again, saying these are the things they now have to deal with. It's a lot. You know? So it's like right.

Jami Young:

When you're talking about the expectations and how do you prepare them, how do you prepare a kid for that?

Melissa Shere Beek:

You can't.

Jami Young:

You can't. All the Exactly. Yeah. There's Exactly.

Amy Shapiro:

There's people who who actually you can pay to help you. Oh. Do you I mean, it's really but it's a whole business.

Jami Young:

It's Right. And to a certain extent, it depends what school you're at, like, what the culture of the school is. Right. You know, and then these are some of the things people find out after they're there.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah.

Jami Young:

Right? Like Mhmm. Not necessarily beforehand, you know. And then sometimes, there's like, just like flat out bad luck, you know?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Oh, that sucks.

Jami Young:

Yeah. It's hard. It's all right. That's it's so it's all these things to have to navigate that weren't there, what, even ten, fifteen years ago.

Amy Shapiro:

Oh, yeah. This was not

Melissa Shere Beek:

an issue. So I always felt that the most important thing to make these kind of transitions, or especially this transition easier, was communication. Like, just that open door policy that I said. It doesn't matter what time, day, night, whatever. And thank God you all have, like, the cell phones to connect with them.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Mhmm. But are your children or are your students expressing that they they are willing to be that open with their parents? Because I think sometimes they sort

Jami Young:

of Definitely not. Okay.

Melissa Shere Beek:

How do

Amy Shapiro:

you say because I feel like my students, especially, tell me almost too much sometimes. Right. It's like Okay. I don't need okay. And I like, okay.

Amy Shapiro:

I'm used I've heard, I think, almost everything just because I've been a guidance counselor.

Jami Young:

Because I'm talking about once they're there.

Amy Shapiro:

Oh, once they're Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. Like an open communication. Them that. Yeah.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. So maybe then once they get there, there's more of a yeah. I'm not really seeing

Melissa Shere Beek:

They just don't touch base as much or they're not telling their parents all of the nuances of things that are going on or

Jami Young:

Well, it's harder because on one hand, we're telling them we want you to be independent, figure it out for yourself. Right. But when do the problems, like, tend look. So what I would say is is other than like open communication, that's all fine and good. But I'm talking about once they're there

Amy Shapiro:

Mhmm.

Jami Young:

Right, that all, like, all the college kids that I work with, all the parents, like, they would if they were listening, they would all, like, be nodding. It was like, you have to say something when there's a problem, because by the time they figure it out, which doesn't mean that the kid has said something, it means there's a big enough problem that That you need

Melissa Shere Beek:

to get involved. Right.

Jami Young:

It's not that it's too late, but it's very late.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. So how do you encourage them to see something at the moment?

Jami Young:

So so what happens is when they're struggling

Amy Shapiro:

Mhmm.

Jami Young:

Okay, they're not ultimately, not going to class. The work is not getting done.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Okay. Because they equate it, like, whatever they're struggling with, whether they're anxious, depressed, loneliness, any don't get into the whatever the things are, what the way it usually ends up going. Right? They're not Right. Calling home saying, like, I'm having a lot of anxiety, mom.

Jami Young:

Like, that's

Melissa Shere Beek:

They're not doing Right?

Jami Young:

And what is the mom gonna do? She'd be like, well, figure it out. Right? So in that whatever problems there are, they can be addressed. Like, would say that to, like, both the parents and the kids.

Jami Young:

Right? Like, I have some parents that are, like, honestly, like, pretty great, at least late in my office. What are they like at home? I don't know.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Right? But they're like, okay, we will figure it out. Right. You have to withdraw, like, okay, you failed every class, we will figure it out. And then, of course, there's other parents that Right.

Jami Young:

Like, totally go bananas.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Right? And it's like, you have your kid asking for help here. Yeah. Clearly who needs help, and like, what are we focusing on right

Melissa Shere Beek:

now? Right.

Jami Young:

Right? So so that's really then, like, the problems that I see in that, like, whatever the problems are, they can be figured out.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Like

Melissa Shere Beek:

As long as you communicate them to at the beginning point of this, not after

Jami Young:

the fact. Not even no. Even after the fact. But for the parents to, like, be, I'm gonna say, relatively calm and address whatever the problems are right then and there, which like I said, usually at this point, is dealing with whatever the grades are. Because if they're not passing, like, that's how all this ends up coming out a lot of times.

Jami Young:

Right. Right?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Once we've passed the point.

Jami Young:

That right. That it can be addressed. Maybe it means withdrawing. Maybe it means a medical. Maybe it means this.

Jami Young:

Maybe it means that. Right?

Melissa Shere Beek:

So you tell the pay the parents that you need to just stop worrying about what already happened and focus on this point forward on what we need to focus like, how we can heal and cure to fix this.

Jami Young:

Yeah. And if the grades are okay, but really, like, the anxiety is through the roof, like, for know?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Address the mental health.

Jami Young:

Right. Like, okay. How do we address this right now and how do we address this going forward? Like Right. What what do we need to do?

Amy Shapiro:

And I think the rules also, it's it's similar to high school where and I don't know if you anyone has ever said this exactly the way I say it, but, like, to my own kids, I'll say, you need an adult besides me that you can speak to and you can tell if something's So going whether that's someone in school, whether

Melissa Shere Beek:

person. That's

Amy Shapiro:

Right. Somebody. I don't care who it is as long as it's someone that we know is safe or whatever. And I think, you know, maybe, hopefully, in college, they would carry that with them.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. But at least you've expressed to all of them, your your your kids and your students, like, what the expectations are. Realistic expectations. Okay.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. So I think a lot of it starts earlier. So that's

Melissa Shere Beek:

So what are you all feeling as you're as you're getting to this press I mean, I may know you still have a little time, but what are you feeling? And you too, Jamie, because you're seeing the beginning of this, James. So what are you both feeling as you get ready for this this launch?

Amy Shapiro:

Ugh. Well, I'm in this weird situation where all of my students, every single one of my seniors is not only set, but committed to college. Yay. So exciting. Except my own daughter because she is waiting for the regulars to come out.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. And she has some great options. Like, we're not in a bad place or she's not in a bad place. I'm not supposed to say we.

Jami Young:

Because it's

Melissa Shere Beek:

her. But you're experiencing it too. But I

Amy Shapiro:

am experiencing it as well. But I it's it's very hard. Yeah. And, you know, it's a lot of, like, hurry up and wait. Yeah.

Amy Shapiro:

So that's what I'm

Melissa Shere Beek:

You can't check that box yet. Yeah. Because you're just like.

Amy Shapiro:

I know. And it's sort of exciting. I'm not gonna lie. It's kind of exciting.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Well, it sounds like everything's gonna be good wherever she goes. If she's it's a it just you just kinda wanna know where we are going right now or where you where she is going right now.

Amy Shapiro:

But again, it goes back to that whole piece of like, maybe in the back of my head, the reason I'm worried or I have any anxiety is because I do worry what people think of where my child is going Right. Because of my profession. And also just as a mom, like Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

And what are you experiencing?

Jami Young:

That it's a lot of unknowns.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Jami Young:

Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

A

Jami Young:

lot of unknowns.

Melissa Shere Beek:

You just sort of have to go with the flow.

Jami Young:

Yeah. Well and it's, you know, a fair amount of time between now and then, whenever then is.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

You know? And I also don't know what's gonna change.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Jami Young:

You know?

Melissa Shere Beek:

There's so much that can happen. Right. Yeah. So Anything you wish you learned earlier, both of you? Like now, especially when you hear from your clients and your clients and now you're going through it and you're seeing it, Jamie, like what are you both Is there anything you said, Oh God, I wish I knew that earlier.

Melissa Shere Beek:

You said something earlier, but I think it was about the sororities and things like that. But there was something else you said, oh, I didn't realize this then, but oh, the weather in the school.

Jami Young:

Yeah. Yeah. So that right. That definitely. Is there anything I wish No.

Jami Young:

I mean, like I said, I I I think there's there's pieces that I'm aware of that as it gets closer Right. I'll be talking to them about. Mhmm. I I mean, because like next up on our list is like all of the SAT stuff. Like, that's right.

Jami Young:

Let me get through that first.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say.

Jami Young:

You know? I'm so sorry. So, yeah. But but like I said, there's there's there's there's pieces that that maybe I have some knowledge

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

You know, about that I can address.

Amy Shapiro:

You know, it's funny because people always say, like, you know, parents step in too much. I think I wish I had stepped in more when certain things with my daughter because I had in my head that, you know, let the school handle it. This will there are, like, two instances that I do really wish I had stepped in. Uh-huh. But then when everything is said and done, I don't think it's gonna matter in

Melissa Shere Beek:

terms so

Amy Shapiro:

I have to just I guess that's, you know, what I have to just remind myself.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Do you all make special time or you carve out special time now just to have moments together or experiences together before she leaves for college?

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. Definitely. I mean, I have this you know, I'll put my my fifth grader to bed and then, like, I know I'm gonna walk out and then walk around so my fifth grader doesn't know that I'm going to my older daughter. You know, maybe she'll hear this and then know.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. I was just gonna say,

Jami Young:

don't listen to the podcast.

Amy Shapiro:

Don't listen. But, no. I definitely carve out time, and and we take it whenever we can. And I think I have to say, you know, it's not just that it's my daughter, but I really she she is very in tune with all of this you know, in a really positive way. And she calms me down.

Amy Shapiro:

Like, the other night, I I was getting stressed about something. I don't even remember what it was. She was like, mom, you know, this is gonna work out. You wanna be fine. I love that.

Amy Shapiro:

And I was like, oh, no. I know. I know you're I know. I know. You know?

Jami Young:

I'm okay.

Amy Shapiro:

It's, you know, it's interesting. And I'm not the only mom to say that. One of my colleagues said the same thing. She was like, yeah.

Jami Young:

Well, I think sometimes it's also hard when you do this as a prophet, you know, like, it's sometimes hard to separate. Sometimes having more knowledge isn't, you know, it's not that it's a bad thing, but sometimes it's just like another thing to deal with. I would say, like, in our house, you know, it's not that it's getting discussed so much, but it's sort of the overall changes that come with if they're sports. Right? There's one more or two more seasons together, or as juniors, this is what you know.

Jami Young:

So there's stuff like that. One of my girls happened to be talking about her 20 birthday the other day. And I actually had this thought and I said it out loud. Was like, oh my god, you won't be together.

Amy Shapiro:

Oh, yeah. They'll be in college. Well, could be together.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. Might have that, like, weekend together to

Jami Young:

Well, that's what they said. They was like, oh, we can always, like, like, go and with

Melissa Shere Beek:

one another.

Jami Young:

But the point being They have a plan. Right. But the point being

Melissa Shere Beek:

I'm not worried about those two.

Jami Young:

They would, in theory, be in different

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. Places. And could be in different cities. Yeah.

Jami Young:

Right. Right. And that was like that was weird. Like, that was because that because that wasn't even just like, oh, when you're in college. That was like

Amy Shapiro:

When you're

Jami Young:

that was like later later in college.

Melissa Shere Beek:

What's gonna be weird is you're gonna blink and they're gonna be 21 and you're gonna remember this conversation and say that was yesterday. So yeah. That's what happens. It just goes warp

Amy Shapiro:

speed. Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Okay. So what's what's the big takeaway for for students and Yeah.

Jami Young:

Yeah. Hold on.

Amy Shapiro:

Right. I think just keep centering yourself. And I know that sounds

Melissa Shere Beek:

cheesy, but I think that's brilliant.

Jami Young:

Because Agreed.

Amy Shapiro:

It is about fit and it is about, like, what what's the say where you are, where you go is not always who you be, you know,

Melissa Shere Beek:

like Okay. My husband always said it's not where you start, it's where you end.

Amy Shapiro:

Exactly. Thanks. That's what I was looking for.

Jami Young:

Yeah. And I would say it's like, it's a lot of change Yeah. For everyone.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jami Young:

Right? Just because it seems like it's not a lot of change for the younger one. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, doesn't mean that, you know, and to give each other and yourselves grace, you said, center yourself, you know?

Jami Young:

Yeah. And literally do the best that you can.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

You know?

Melissa Shere Beek:

I agree with that.

Jami Young:

Like, if you're gonna do the best that you can, we're all gonna screw up.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

But

Melissa Shere Beek:

We're all gonna be okay.

Jami Young:

But then that'll help address it.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. Learning.

Jami Young:

Like, when when when you need to.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Mhmm. Do you have even think about expectations? This might not apply to you as much as you, Amy, but like when she comes home for visiting or like

Amy Shapiro:

how Yeah. It

Jami Young:

a good one.

Amy Shapiro:

We have so one of her best friends just came back for spring break and, like, is renting a Airbnb with, like, all his friends. And my daughter came home the other night and she's like, I don't know what's going on. Like I'm I'm I literally thought to myself, wow. My daughter could potentially come to Miami for spring break and not be living with us.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. Yeah. Go to the city. What Might bring 10 people and not at your house, but somewhere else.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. Right. Expectations, I think I would expect that she would be safe. Hopefully, that would be the number one thing. Always.

Amy Shapiro:

And smart. But no, I'm not gonna have a curfew. And you can quote me on that. I really believe

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. That goes out the window. No way you can implement that or even ask that. So No. And what about your

Jami Young:

Well, as far no. I as far I have no idea.

Melissa Shere Beek:

But your client like, what are your Well clients say?

Jami Young:

So actually, you had a very good point. Like, I've definitely heard about that again from, like, both sides, both from the kids.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah. That's what I wanna know.

Jami Young:

If they come back and they wanna check-in, but also from the parents.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

So then, like, on the parents side, like, when there's okay. So you're saying you won't have a curfew, but you have two kids at home. Right?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Jami Young:

Now, if they're not in school, okay. But if they were in school, like Christmas break, like spring break is one week. Okay. So it's not the

Melissa Shere Beek:

biggest deal.

Jami Young:

But Some of the kids are off for like eight weeks for Christmas. Yeah. It's like crazy. And everybody goes back to work and back to school. So are you Yeah.

Jami Young:

Like so that has Good point. That has come up. Things like the curfew and then like

Melissa Shere Beek:

And what are they saying?

Jami Young:

So, yeah. There's a fair amount of them that are doing curfews.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Oh, they are doing curfews. Yeah. Well,

Jami Young:

because, like, you have to get up and go to work, and I say, and there's other kids in the house. Right. Yeah. So, again, it it depends on, like, what the nature of, like, let's say the house is, the kid is, what time they usually come to know, like Yeah. Are they the ones to, like, turn on the lights and, like, start

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

Cooking stir fry at three Right. Right? Right. Because not every kid is is necessarily like that. Right.

Jami Young:

So so again, it it depends, but, you know, that doesn't make it wrong. Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

It's what works for that household.

Jami Young:

Right. And again, figuring that out, like

Melissa Shere Beek:

It also a learning curve.

Jami Young:

A 100%.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Jami Young:

Right. And for both, because the the parent is gonna be like, oh my god, you have a curfew. It's gonna be like 12:00. And the kid is gonna be like We don't

Amy Shapiro:

go out.

Melissa Shere Beek:

We don't leave the house until So

Jami Young:

this and the parents will be like, well, it can't be 3AM.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So then what like, so Where's the balance?

Jami Young:

Yeah. It's it's hard.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So your girls were talking about turning 21 and where they're gonna be. Do do your girls and your children express, like, their thoughts of what it's gonna be like when they're in college? Like, what are they expecting?

Jami Young:

Fun. Fun. Yeah. A little bit of, like, what they would like and some of their friends too, like what they, you know, think they would like.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. And your girls have older cousins, so they can kind of like see some of the things that go on. Do your do your children do you have like, nieces and nephews or cousins for them that they can say, oh, well, this happened with so and so. And that's what I'm expecting.

Amy Shapiro:

Totally. We have one I have a niece who's one year older than But my this is her freshman year.

Melissa Shere Beek:

So Okay.

Amy Shapiro:

You know?

Melissa Shere Beek:

So she your daughter's waiting for notes for that.

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah. Got it. Exactly. Got

Melissa Shere Beek:

it. Okay. And what are you guys personally looking forward to?

Amy Shapiro:

I love having older kids. Like, I I don't I don't even wanna say I'm looking forward to this because I feel like I'm in it. I was not the mom who was like, look at the baby. They're so cute in this stroller. Like, yes, they're great.

Amy Shapiro:

But like, I don't know. I was not a mommy and me, like, fanatic, like, just not my thing. So I guess I'm just looking forward. I feel like the older they get, the more I get their personalities. I feel closer to them.

Amy Shapiro:

I feel more confident as a parent, I think. Yeah.

Jami Young:

I don't

Amy Shapiro:

know if that makes sense. But I'm looking forward to all of it. I'm excited. I I don't know if I'm gonna be I'll be nostalgic when Sarah leaves, but I don't think I don't know that I'm gonna be sad. No.

Jami Young:

I'm curious. I think that's kinda the best word. Yeah. That's a good word. Like I said, I have no idea.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

So I'm kinda curious how it

Melissa Shere Beek:

goes. Right.

Jami Young:

Like, I mean, I definitely get people asking me, like, do you think they'll go separate? Do think they'll go together? And really, my answer is like, it's definitely not up to me.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right. My choice. Right.

Jami Young:

Right. But it's also, it's not even that it's not fully their choice. Like if they Right. Who knows where they're gonna Right. Quote end up, you know?

Jami Young:

So so that's what I mean. Like, am I gonna have one far away and one close? Am I gonna have two far? Like, I have no idea. Yeah.

Jami Young:

You know? Like, whatever it is, it's gonna be pretty different.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Yeah.

Jami Young:

So that's what I mean when I say, like, I'm I'm curious, but also still have like the next few years, like now where they're beginning to kinda separate a little bit.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Right.

Jami Young:

You know, and and do some different things. Right.

Melissa Shere Beek:

I think each stage brings a new dynamic and dimension, like growing up in life. And I I think it's there's it's always good because I think the connection gets deeper as they get older as well. Mhmm. Because they have a little more life experience and knowledge and you can relate on certain things. Yay.

Melissa Shere Beek:

That's all good. Did we leave anything out? Did we forget anything? Don't think

Amy Shapiro:

so. I don't think so.

Melissa Shere Beek:

I think we covered a lot. Okay. So before I let you girls go, I do a thing at the end of my podcast, quickie questions. Okay? I know you've experienced before, but okay.

Jami Young:

Sure.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Do you have a motto that you live by?

Jami Young:

I wish my husband were here because he could probably answer for me.

Amy Shapiro:

Mine is so mine is, like, so cheesy, though. It's like mine's like clear eyes, full heart. I just Oh, I like that. That's a great one. I know.

Amy Shapiro:

It's like Friday Night Lights.

Jami Young:

It is. That's what I was gonna say.

Amy Shapiro:

It is Friday Night Lights. And it I That show just resonates with me because there's a guidance counselor in there that I Did she say that? She doesn't, but her husband does. Oh. Yeah.

Amy Shapiro:

Coach Taylor. But Tammy Taylor

Melissa Shere Beek:

She's really big.

Amy Shapiro:

She's really into this. Tammy Taylor What's the I like? Like, the best guidance counselor in the history of guidance counselors, who is also a fake person, but whatever. She she she, like, I I feel like every problem, anything you approach and whenever I'm scared about something or, like, I'm not sure about something, I have to just if I'm looking at this with clear eyes and a full heart, how am I gonna react? And I think that's beautiful.

Jami Young:

You gave me mine. So it's this I I I would say, personally, I do abide by this, but I don't really say it in my personal life. But professionally, this is a 100%. And it's you won't go wrong when you do you.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Oh, I that too.

Amy Shapiro:

Love that.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Alright. So you both have spectacular ones. Okay. That's good. Do you have a favorite word or phrase that you use?

Jami Young:

I don't know if I can say it on here.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Well, I've I've I I use the f word

Amy Shapiro:

Yeah.

Melissa Shere Beek:

As an adverb, a verb, a noun, and an adjective. It pretty much covers everything for me. So I've dropped many f bombs here. It's okay. So that's yours too?

Jami Young:

It would be out there, Amy?

Amy Shapiro:

I mean, I don't know if it's really a phrase or anything, but, like, going back to the what I was saying I think sometimes going back to the truth and what that is. Yeah. So I'll say to a kid, like, okay, tell me the truth. Yeah. Because I'm hearing a lot of other things, but go go to the core.

Amy Shapiro:

Go to

Melissa Shere Beek:

the Right. Get to the meat

Jami Young:

of it.

Amy Shapiro:

Got it.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Okay. What's your greatest strength?

Jami Young:

I don't know. Are we talking personally or professionally?

Melissa Shere Beek:

Either one or both. I'm gonna say I think you both would have to be great listeners for what you do

Jami Young:

for professionally. Right. Okay. But to me, it means something a little bit different than, you know, like, oh, I'm a good listener. Like Right.

Jami Young:

Does that, you know, like I mean, I more like active listening Mhmm. And I will either say back or reflect back. And like, you know, a lot of people that I work with will hear me say. I'm I'm like, well, this is what I'm hearing you say. Like, you're not saying these words, but this is what I'm hearing you say.

Jami Young:

Right. Or I'll say something like, alright. You're saying that, but I'm picking up like something else, and I'm gonna Got tell you what it

Melissa Shere Beek:

it. Okay. So that's your that's a good strength.

Amy Shapiro:

I think it's so so along those lines, mine would intuition. But it's more than that. Like, there's times when I don't know. It's like a sixth sense. I just know things.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Mhmm. You pick up energies. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.

Melissa Shere Beek:

I hear you. Okay. Do you have a secret party trick or talent?

Amy Shapiro:

Mine's like nineties rap.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Okay. Off camera after this, I'm gonna have you break it down for me.

Amy Shapiro:

Salt and Peppa.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Oh, love them. And Spinderella.

Jami Young:

I couldn't Not that I can think of off the top of my head.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Okay. You'll you'll tell me later. Yeah. Okay.

Jami Young:

Yeah. Well,

Melissa Shere Beek:

thank you guys for being here. Thank you. This was wonderful. And thank you for the idea, Jami. This was great.

Melissa Shere Beek:

No. Thank you for having me. Yeah. No. Both of you.

Melissa Shere Beek:

This was spectacular. Yeah. Thanks. I hope our listeners learned so much. I think they will.

Amy Shapiro:

Yes. Yay.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Thank you. It was educational and fun.

Jami Young:

Yep. Yes.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Okay. Good. To our listeners, thank you so much. So grateful you are here. Keep listening.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Keep learning. Keep laughing. Keep up with Beek on being. Follow Beek on being on Instagram for the latest. To share thoughts, ideas, suggestions, or nominate a guest, DM us.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Want exclusive content, behind the scenes stories, and listener links? Subscribe. Listen to Beek on being wherever you get your podcasts. All episodes are automatically transcribed. A big shout out and a huge thank you to Steven Chen at Penthouse Studios.

Melissa Shere Beek:

Beek on Being was recorded at Penthouse Studios and is a proud member of the Penthouse Podcast Network.