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Join us on Silvercore Podcast Episode 123 as we dive into the critical issue of Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) with wildlife health expert Cait Nelson. Discover the latest findings on CWD's arrival in British Columbia, understand its impact on deer, elk, and moose populations, and learn essential safety tips for hunters.
Cait shares her insights on prevention, surveillance, and how we can all contribute to the fight against this invisible enemy. Whether you're a seasoned hunter, wildlife enthusiast, or concerned citizen, this episode offers valuable knowledge on safeguarding our wildlife heritage.
Tune in to stay informed and proactive in the battle against CWD.
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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore podcast.
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If you'd like to learn more
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Silvercore club and community,
visit our website at silvercore.
ca.
Today's guest is a wildlife health
biologist who for the last 17 years
has been working with the BC provincial
government wildlife health program.
She's involved with priority disease
surveillance programs such as bovine
tuberculosis and chronic wasting disease,
which is the subject of today's talk.
Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Kate Nelson.
Cait Nelson: Hi, Travis.
Thanks for having
Travis Bader: me.
You know, we've talked a lot
in the past, back and forth.
I'm really happy to have
you on the podcast here.
It's a unfortunate, the circumstances,
which is precipitating the chat
that we're seeing CWD chronic
wasting disease in British Columbia.
Um, you know, it was what, depending
on when this podcast releases,
it's going to be a little bit of
a span is about a week ago or so
that we started seeing all of the.
Announcements coming through back country
hunters and anglers and the BC Wildlife
Federation and in the newspapers that
chronic wasting disease has now been
spotted and confirmed in British Columbia.
Cait Nelson: Yeah, that's right.
We, uh, the Canadian Food Inspection
Agency, which is the, the ref,
um, the reference laboratory
confirmed, um, the first two cases.
Uh, and they came, um, from deer
samples from our Kootenai region.
So that was the first time
CWU was detected in, in BC.
So yeah, we're about a week in now.
Travis Bader: I couldn't believe
the amount of, uh, questions
that I've been getting.
We put up a poll on social media saying
that I'm going to be having a talk.
And do you have questions?
Holy crow.
The number of people that have
been inundating us with a lot of
club members and people through
social media and, uh, friends are
saying like, can we find out this?
Can we find out that?
And a lot of them are the same.
I can only imagine.
What's it like in your office right now?
Are you getting inundated?
Cait Nelson: Yeah.
Yeah.
Short answer is yes.
Um, it's, it's been very busy.
Uh, but it's also really great to see,
um, the interest and tend to see all
of these groups and individuals and,
you know, communities that are reaching
out to say, how can we help, how can
we support, and, um, so that's been.
really a wonderful thing to be going
through, you know, if it has been super
intense and of course it's, it's, it's,
um, Really, uh, too bad, you know, nobody
wanted this event to happen, but we have
been anticipating it and preparing for it.
And so it, um, you know, it's, it's,
it's a sad day for sure that we've now
detected this disease in BC, but, um,
I'm sort of energized, I guess, by, By
the incredible community and support,
um, that we're receiving already.
Um, you know, just with people
reaching out and lots of questions.
And I hope that, you know, really
appreciate the invitation today, um,
to have a chat with you because, uh,
you know, this is a platform where
we can reach a lot of people and hope
to address some of those questions
because it's hard for, for us to.
You know, actually connect with all
of those people, you know, directly.
Um, and we know there's a
lot of questions out there.
So, so hopefully by doing this,
we can, we can help share the
information more effectively.
Yeah, and
Travis Bader: we were talking
off air as well here about, uh,
the release of this episode.
So I've got some planned episodes that
are looking at releasing and I'm, uh,
looking at bumping that timeline up
based on the fact that there's so much
new information that's coming to light.
So what we talk about here is
going to be fairly timely from
when we're talking about it, but.
People who are interested in
this and they want to learn more.
They should be checking out what the,
uh, I'm sure the provincial government's
got a website that they can re
referring to, to see all the updates.
Yeah,
Cait Nelson: no, absolutely.
Yeah.
We're really in the, the
early stages of this.
Um, again, we had, you know, put a
lot of work into preparing for this.
Um, running through scenarios, what kind
of resources we're going to need and what
kind of expertise we're going to need.
Um, so thankfully we had a lot of
that in place so that we could hit the
ground running, but this really is, um,
you know, uh, information gathering.
We want to make sure that we
understand what's going on
on the landscape right now.
And we're pulling those, those
key facts together so that we can.
You know, make informed decisions
and science based decisions moving
forward, but yeah, we're we're really
in in the thick of it right now.
And as more information is coming in
daily, and it will, it will provide a
clearer picture of what's, um, what's
unfolding, you know, on the landscape
and so, yeah, yeah, it was sort of, um,
this is sort of a snapshot, but every
day there's new information coming in and
that's gonna, um, Give us a more complete
picture of the scope and scale of this.
Right.
Travis Bader: So what I'll do just
to keep this a bit more evergreen
in front of people's minds is we can
communicate afterwards as things progress.
If there's big announcements that come
out, I'll throw it up in the show notes.
So I'll put it into the, on the website
and the YouTube and in the description.
So people at least have
links where they can.
Click and check out what the
new information on this is.
Yeah.
So
Cait Nelson: we do have a, we do have a
BCCWD website and that's going to be a
good resource, um, for people to check
out or we're going to be posting, um, new
information and, and some communication
stuff, uh, all of our test results as
they come in, we'll go up on our website.
So, so yeah, we'll make sure
everybody has that link.
Travis Bader: Perfect.
Um, well, let's start at the beginning.
What is, what do we know?
What do we know about
chronic wasting disease?
Where did it start?
What does it do?
Um, how does it spread?
Cait Nelson: Okay.
So, so chronic wasting disease is a
infectious disease that affects species
in the deer family, um, or cervids.
And so that includes deer,
elk, moose, and caribou.
Um, it's fatal in all cases.
When an animal becomes infected,
they will die from the disease.
And we still don't have
any vaccines available.
So this is a fatal disease.
Um, it's caused by an abnormal
misshapen protein called a prion.
And so, uh, you know, normal proteins
in our bodies, they, they all have, you
know, different functions and they're,
um, designed to sort of, Complete
that function and they'll, they'll
break down into their component parts
and kind of get recycled in the body.
But these, these disease causing
prions, um, for whatever reason, they
don't break down, they accumulate in
the tissue and they can be present in
all tissues of the animal, but they
really tend to concentrate and, and,
um, increasingly concentrate in the
central nervous system in the brain.
And so what ends up happening is.
a neurological disease.
And so there's, there's damage to the
brain tissue that, um, that ultimately
leads to the demise of that animal.
And so, um, one of the tricky, well,
there's several tricky things about
this disease, but one of them is
that, um, most animals that are.
that test positive for the disease,
as we've seen in other places.
Um, they don't actually
show, uh, outward symptoms.
Those symptoms aren't
really always obvious.
So a lot of animals that test positive are
healthy looking, hunter harvested animals.
So I talk to hunters often that, you
know, they'll say they're so surprised
that their animals tested positive.
This is like B.
C.
hunters that have harvested animals in
Alberta or, you know, elsewhere where
they've had this disease for a while.
Um, or hunters in B.
C.
who I talk to and they say, No, I didn't
submit my My head for testing this
year because the animal I harvested
was really healthy, looked really good.
And so that's tricky because there's
no way to, um, often there's no way
to tell just visually if an animal
is infected with this disease.
And so it's, um, that's why
testing animals is so important.
Um, but it also makes managing
the disease on the landscape a
challenge because there's no,
um, you don't see sick animals.
It's very rare to see sick animals
on the landscape, even in places like
Alberta, where there's a really high
proportion of the animals are infected.
Now, you just don't really see sick
animals on the landscape, so there's no
signal for us that something's wrong.
Um, so anyway, that's
a challenging aspect.
Another challenging aspect of this
disease is, um, these disease causing
Uh, prions or proteins, um, in an
infected animal, they'll actually shed
the, the animal will shed these, these
prions through their saliva or other
bodily fluids into the environment.
They can also be shed.
Uh, through carcasses that are
decomposing in the environment.
And so that environmental contamination
aspect of this disease makes it super
challenging to, um, to, to control
because not only do we have direct
transmission between animals through
nose to nose contact, um, But there's
contamination of the environment and,
and, um, these animals that are shedding
again, they, they're infected with the
disease, but they don't really often
show that those outward symptoms.
So, so they can still be
shedding the disease, even though
they don't appear to be sick.
And so once these, these prions get
into the environment, Um, they'll
remain there active and infectious
and could potentially expose other
animals indirectly through, you know,
an animal, um, you know, consuming
some vegetation or, you know, these
prions can be in the soil on plants
and in water and things like that.
And, um, they are very, these
prions are very, um, indestructible
really, um, they're resistant to
heat, like burning and cooking.
Doesn't, um, doesn't sort of deactivate
the pre, the protein, um, disinfectants,
like, you know, other cleaning methods
won't, um, won't, you know, kind of
neutralize them in the environment.
And so it's, there's not really any
way to clean up those environments
once they've been contaminated.
And so then that becomes a site where
other animals can pick it up from.
Yeah.
So
Travis Bader: this is kind of
like, if I'm not mistaken, like I
remember 96, 97 and everyone was
mad cow disease is a big thing.
And that's, I'm probably gonna
pronounce this wrong, but bovine
Cait Nelson: spongiform encephalopathy.
Yeah.
Is that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bovine spongiform encephalopathy.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: Encephalopathy.
I knew I'd almost get it.
Oh, you were very close.
Yeah.
And I, I remember I,
uh, I was 19 years old.
I flew over to the UK and
this was all on the mind.
Everyone's talking about
this mad cow disease.
And I'm like, I'm not
going to eat any meat.
And the first meal that I had
was at a friend's grandmother's
house where I was staying was a.
Roast beef dinner.
I'm like, well, I
Cait Nelson: can't, I can't,
I can't say no to eat this.
Someone's grandma's made you that meal.
Yeah.
Totally.
Travis Bader: And you know that
she put a lot of effort and it
cost a bit and all the rest.
And so I ate it gladly.
And I thought, I guess I'm not giving
blood for the next few years because
that's what the rules were around that.
This, that, that'd be a prion sort
of, uh, infection within bovine.
Is it pretty similar?
To what we're seeing here in the service.
Yeah.
Cait Nelson: Yeah.
And so, so BSC or mad cow disease is
another another type of prion disease.
Um, they're part of this family of
diseases called, um, transmissible
spongiform encephalopathies.
So.
They're, you know,
transmissible between animals.
The spongiform actually, uh, describes
what the, the brain tissue looks like
because when the prions accumulate in
the brain, um, it causes cell death and
you actually get holes in the brain.
And so that's where the spongiform, like
it actually has a sponge like appearance.
And then encephalopathy just means it.
you know, a disease of the brain.
And so, um, this group of diseases,
prion diseases, include mad cow disease.
There's also a prion disease in
sheep and goats called scrapie.
People might have heard of that.
Um, there are some human forms.
Krutzfeldt Jakob disease is a prion
disease that, uh, occurs in humans.
And, and there's a number of other ones.
Um, so they're all caused by these
abnormal proteins called prions, part
of this group of, of diseases, TSCs.
But, um, but different, uh, prion
diseases are, are quite, um, they're
quite different from each other.
And so, um, for, you know, mad cow
disease, for example, is very different.
Like you actually have to consume the
meat of the cattle to become infected.
Those, those animals don't.
don't shed the prion into the environment.
Um, so they all have differences.
They, they tend to have these very, um,
strong, what we call species barriers.
So they don't cross between
species groups very readily.
And so that's, you know, that's how we
know that with chronic wasting disease,
um, In a natural environment, we don't
believe it will transfer to other, to
other species like cattle or, you know,
other livestock or domestic animals.
There's no evidence of that happening, so
they're, they're, you know, they're unique
in that way to that, um, species group.
Um, coming back to the human
health concern touched on with BSE.
Um, there's no direct evidence
that chronic wasting disease
can be transmitted to humans.
As far as we know, there hasn't been
a, a documented case of CWD in, in
a human, but there's still a lot we
don't know about these prion diseases.
And so.
I mean, we refer to the public health
folks for recommendations on this
and, you know, coming from the World
Health Organization and all the way
down to, you know, Health Canada
and our local public health folks.
Um, their position is that we can't, the
risk of transmission to people might be
low, but we can't rule it out completely.
So they recommend a precautionary
approach and advise that any
animal CWD should not be eaten.
And so, you know, there, there definitely
are some human health concerns.
Um, that's the information we have so far
is, is to, you know, be cautious about
this because we just don't know for sure.
Travis Bader: So that would be
called zoonotic if it transmits
from a, an animal to a human, right?
Like mad cow was able to make that
jump from an animal to a human.
It's a zoonotic transmission.
Um, have you seen that research in
the university, Calgary, a couple
of really bright cookies started
putting human, um, um, I don't know,
human, something within mice, human
proteins, even something in mice.
And they're saying, hold on a second,
we're seeing in this lab base, not an
actual from animal to human, but it's
affecting these human, um, proteins and
you're going to correct me if I'm wrong,
but it's, it's, um, It's not presenting
in the way that it would in the cervid,
it's presenting very differently.
And a couple of years later,
have you, have you been
Cait Nelson: following that?
Uh, you know, a little bit, I'm not
super familiar with it, but I do, you
know, I, I am familiar with some of
those studies that have looked at, you
know, pushing that species barrier in a
research setting, whether it be with, um,
you know, humanized mice or cervidized
mice, they can put like, you know, that.
cervid kind of component in a, in
a research animal, like a rodent.
Um, there's also been some studies
looking at, um, transmission of
prion disease to non human primates.
And that's where some of the uncertainty
has come from these, you know, we
haven't seen it in a natural setting
or haven't, you know, documented
this in a natural setting, but in
some of these research settings, um,
the results, the findings of these
studies have been sort of inconsistent.
And there, you know, there's a few
studies that where there was evidence
that, um, you know, primates that
consumed CWD infected deer meat
actually developed the disease.
Um, but you know, other studies,
similar studies had different results
in the end, so sort of inconsistent.
Um, and so all, you know, all just kind of
cumulatively leading to some uncertainty
around it and, and why, um, public health
advises us to just take a precautionary
approach until we, we can understand this.
More, more completely.
Travis Bader: Right.
I know a couple of friends over
in Alberta, they went and they
harvested their, uh, a white tail
deer, butchered it, packed it in the
freezer, heads off getting inspected.
And then they get a note back
sometime later saying, It's
got chronic wasting disease.
We recommend that you take it to the
landfill, dump it all in the landfill.
So they're pretty upset because now
they're out the money for the hunt.
They're out their meat.
They're out the tag because their tag
doesn't get, uh, reimbursed off of the,
uh, the whole thing, from my understanding
and, um, Um, and I see that as one of
the questions that we're getting a lot
of, um, number one was like, what is it?
And we've talked a little bit about
that and how do we identify it?
That was one.
And I think you've kind of answered
that one in so far as you maybe,
maybe if it's really progressed
down the way, but a lot of times.
You don't.
Yeah.
Cait Nelson: Especially, especially
in hunter harvested animals, hunters
are not going to be targeting
those sick looking animals, right?
And so, yeah, yeah.
Just visually you're right.
You're correct.
There's, there's no way to tell.
Um, and so we, you know,
recommend and, and encourage
hunters to get animals tested.
Um, you know, one to
have that peace of mind.
For the, you know, for them and,
and their family that's going to be
consuming the meat, but for, for our
perspective, that information from that
animal and understanding, um, you know,
providing that information to feed
into our surveillance program so that
we have a, a, a better understanding
of health of populations in BC.
Um, every, every negative.
Test that comes back is super valuable,
especially, you know, right now in
this, in this scenario that we are
in, um, we've had two positive cases,
but we are looking at hundreds of
negative cases, and that is just as
valuable to look at on the landscape
where we've tested all these animals in
this area, and, you know, we have good
confidence The disease is not there and
that's so important to us right now.
It allows us to focus in and,
and, you know, target our
approaches and our resources where
we really need to be looking.
So, um, anyway, I'm kind of going off
course here, but, uh, but yeah, I've had
lots of conversations with BC residents.
that have harvested animals in, in
Alberta, for example, and late, you
know, brought the meat back and found
out that those animals are positive.
And, um, what generally happens in BC is
they're notified by the Alberta program.
And then the Alberta program has
notified us so we can follow up,
um, around the disposal, right?
Cause now we, we know that there's CWD.
Um, um, CWD confirmed material
in somebody's freezer in BC.
And, um, the advice is that they don't
eat it, but it's up to them if they
want to eat it or not, but we always
reach out and say, if you do want to,
if you don't want to eat this, please
consider transferring it over to us
so we can dispose of this safely.
Cause we don't want people just, you
know, burning it in their backyard.
Cause then that's just going to get
into the soil or, or throwing it
in the bush or something like that.
Um, We actually will request that
the hunter turns that meat over to us
so we can have it incinerated at our
agriculture lab because incineration is,
as far as we know, the only effective
way to denature these, um, these.
And so then we know it's disposed of
safely and there's no risk of it coming
into the, um, our environment and BC.
But, um, but those are hard conversations,
you know, with, with all of the struggles
right now with, you know, just access
to food and, and the cost of food and
everything, um, to, to have to make those
decisions around wasting meat like that.
It's, it's really, it's,
it's heartbreaking.
And, um, Um, you know, more and
more hunters in other places
like Alberta and Saskatchewan.
I mean, they've been dealing
with this for a while.
Um, but you know, we've only
just really had a taste of it.
We've been really lucky in BC that we
haven't had those kinds of impacts yet.
So, you know, why we've been trying to
stay ahead of this and be proactive and
try and catch us as quickly as possible so
that we don't repeat, um, some of those.
Unfortunate situations that have
played out in other places where the
disease has just taken hold and is
in a large number of populations now.
Travis Bader: Where did we first start
seeing CWD and what happened to the
Cait Nelson: landscape?
Yeah, so we don't know for
sure where it originated.
And so, um.
We, the first documented cases of
chronic wasting disease were, uh, out
of Colorado, Wyoming in the 1960s.
Um, mainly centered around a,
like a research or ca a research
facility in a cap captive animals.
And, um, at that time
in the sixties, they.
They didn't know what CWD was.
It wasn't, it wasn't a thing yet.
Um, but later, several years later, I
think it was almost a decade later, they,
they just, they were like, okay, this
is a prion disease that's occurring in
cervids and, and, you know, defined it
as chronic wasting disease at that time.
Um, but you know, the, in those first, uh,
years or even the first couple of decades,
it, um, they really didn't understand
the disease and how it was transmitted.
How it could affect, you know,
um, contaminate the environment.
So they didn't really have the
tools to manage it or contain it.
And so it moved around through, um,
captive populations, through the farming
industry and through wildlife populations.
It, you know, crossed over
the fence in both directions.
And it was spread around
quite a bit in the States.
And then, you know, came
into Canada in the 19.
Um, 1990s into Saskatchewan through,
um, uh, cap game farmed elk.
And, uh, so yeah, it moved
around a lot before we really,
anybody really understood the
disease and how it was spread.
And then, you know, um, so some of
those earlier hit places, I think
have seen some of the most significant
impacts because again, just didn't
have the tools or the understanding
of how to manage this disease.
Um, we now have the benefit of
several years now, uh, you know,
lessons learned, uh, watching these
places that are managing CWD and, and
what's worked and what hasn't worked.
And uh, we have more tools in the,
in the toolbox now for sure, and
better understanding of just the
disease dynamics and how it's spread.
Travis Bader: Well, what, um, When
we, so I guess how long do we have
an idea of how long those prions
are going to be in the environment?
Let's say an animal was killed by a wolf
and it's down and it's decomposing, or
maybe it's transmissible through its
saliva or feces or urine or whatever.
Is it kind of there indefinitely,
or is it got a bit of a shelf life?
Cait Nelson: We don't actually know,
again, as one of these things that we
don't fully understand about the disease.
Um, you know, I'm, I'm.
Um, relative to other diseases that
really hasn't been around very long.
So we haven't, um, really seen an
endpoint yet, uh, you know, for
some of these things, we're still
watching and learning and seeing
how it, how it impacts populations.
So, so there has been some studies done.
I think, um, looking at the prions
that cause scrapie, I think is one,
one study that found that the prions
can exist in the environment for.
Over 15 years, but that was just
sort of the length of that study.
It's probably more.
It's probably longer So we don't really
know but several years for sure There's
been some other work that has showed how
these prions interact with the environment
and soil different soils and so different
soil types will actually bind to prions
and we'll, we'll make them more, they
sort of keep them at the surface so
they're more available to other animals.
Whereas other soil types might, you
know, with rain and they wash, they
wash through and they're not as, um,
sort of available at the surface.
So anyway, all, all of these things,
there's, there's different, um, different
factors, uh, different variables on
the landscape that will impact this.
But as you know, as far as we know,
the prions will remain active, we
could say, or infectious and with
the potential to expose other animals
for several years, even if in the
absence of those sick animals that
originally deposited them there.
Travis Bader: Well, that's an interesting
question about the environment.
Are there certain environments that
just become pre on cesspools that the
hunter going in there knows that if
I'm rolling the dice, I'm the odds
aren't in my favor and other ones
where if they want to roll those dice,
the odds might be in their favor.
Cait Nelson: Yeah.
Again, it's.
Um, not something that we fully
understand sort of on the landscape,
but there's definitely been some
evidence of what we call CWD hotspots
where, um, animals will visit a site.
Um, if there's, if there's like an
attractant, um, if there's some sort
of a food source and multiple animals
are coming to that site and they sort
of are congregating together, um, You
know, it makes sense that, you know,
they're sort of coming back to that site.
They're all eating there.
Every, you know, everyone's
drooling and urinating on that spot.
So those are areas where you tend
to see higher rates of that disease
transmission and higher rates
of environmental contamination.
So, so it's just sort of this,
um, circular thing that continues
driving that, um, disease.
So, uh, yeah, there's definitely some
evidence of that, um, you know, how
much that's playing a role overall
in the, um, in the, on the landscape.
We don't fully understand, but, but
some of those areas, things like, um,
urban deer populations in some other
places, like we've seen the situation
in Northwest Montana and the Libby
area, um, you know, pretty high rates
of, of disease in, in that white
tail population in the city limits.
And so there's some, some reasons,
you know, that that could be, um,
just the ecology of urban deer.
They're kind of using the same areas.
The higher, you know, highly
concentrated, not as many, um, pressures
from predators or hunters, right?
And so you, you can see kind of
more disease, um, transmission
in, in those types of situations.
Travis Bader: Are we finding any sort of
like genetic outliers or markers within
some of these cervids that are just
not getting the CWD or maybe genetic
outliers who are more predisposition
Cait Nelson: to get it?
Yeah, great question.
I, a short answer is I don't think so.
Um, again, that's not my area of
expertise, but my understanding
is, you know, there's, there's
been a fair bit of work looking at
caribou and if caribou might have
hope, you know, everyone's hopeful.
Because of the conservation
concerns around caribou, that
they might have some resistance,
and there's no evidence of that.
Um, and so, uh, I think, I think
the, um, The thinking is that these
animals don't build any kind of
immunity because it's a protein.
The body, just like, you know, we
all have proteins in our bodies.
Well, you know, the body doesn't
recognize it as something foreign or
something that's not supposed to be there.
Like, you know, a bacteria or a virus,
the body will know there's something
foreign and you get an immune response.
With these proteins,
there's no immune response.
The body doesn't recognize it as
anything that shouldn't be there.
And so animals don't build immunity.
Over time.
Um, to this.
So, uh, there's, there's some work and
again, not my area of expertise, but,
but there's a bodily body of research
is looking at different strains of CWD
that are present, um, both in North
America, and it's done some work in,
in Europe, in the, in the CWD outbreak
around Scandinavia, um, that there's
different strains of the disease
that may impact, you Animals are
different species in a different way.
Some, you know, some lead to a
faster progression of, of disease
and, and things like that.
But, um, but in all cases, the animal
becomes infected and will die ultimately.
Just with some different, um, kind
of characteristics along the way.
Some of the
Travis Bader: questions that
I had were going to be around
identifying animals that have CWD and
characteristics that you see in them.
And, but I mean, your initial statement
about, you can't really, um, I,
I would guess at some point you'd
be able to identify if it's, uh,
gone far enough down the spectrum.
Um, what, what would be some of
the observations that somebody
would have of that animal?
If they say, oh, for
sure, that one's got CWD.
And, um, are there any like
sort of pathological features
observed in the affected animals?
Cait Nelson: Sure.
Yeah.
And we definitely would, you know,
want people looking out for those.
Right.
Um, again, it's, it, it, from what we've
seen in other places, it's pretty rare
to see stick animals on the landscape.
Um, one likely reason for that is that.
animals start to show that vulnerability
and, and predators would recognize that,
um, you know, before people wouldn't.
So I think that that's, what's happened in
some places is that predators are sort of
taking out those vulnerable sick animals
before we see any evidence of disease.
Um, but yeah, things to look
for in those later stages.
So again, this neurological disease, um,
There's the classic, if you, you know,
you'll see images or videos online of like
severely thin animals that are, um, have
poor coordination, trembling, drooling,
you know, ears down, um, really lethargic.
You see images like that online and, and
that, that is, um, Late stage, right?
And, and different like studies
have been able to track that and
observe that late stage in like a
research setting in a captive setting.
They see these animals progress to that.
So certainly, if we see any animals on the
landscape with those types of symptoms,
that's something our wildlife health.
Program would, would really like to, um,
hear about and, and those are animals
that we're going to want to follow up
on just in case, you know, so, so those,
um, very thin and neurological symptoms.
Definitely.
Um, even before that happens, though, um,
when there's changes to the brain, uh,
before you see really obvious symptoms
showing there might be some subtle
things like, uh, animals just sort of.
to be like, not, uh, not afraid of
people approaching or, or, you know,
other, you know, dogs approaching
just sort of, um, not very alert.
Um, not moving out of the
way as, as normal behavior
would, would show generally.
Um, that's another reason why roadkill
samples are a super important sample for
us because obviously lots of animals get.
Uh, hit on the road.
And so that's a really good
source of samples, but those
animals that, um, are starting to
have some of those neurological
impacts will be more susceptible
to getting hit by a vehicle too.
Right.
And so they're almost like a, uh, uh,
a higher, um, uh, what's the word?
Like higher value sample for us because
they may be more prone to, um, to being
hit by a car if they're, if they're sick.
Um, so yeah, so those are some sort
of more subtle, uh, observations if,
if people, um, observe something like
that, you know, and with all of these
things that I'm describing, there's other
things out there that could cause these,
it's not necessarily chronic wasting
disease, but, um, we definitely would
like to hear about it so that we can
follow up and, and, um, you know, just
keep track of what's going on because,
uh, there's, you know, the, um, Hunting
community and, and trapping community
and just locals that are on the land,
like you're our ears and eyes out there.
Um, and so if you're observing anything
abnormal, um, we'd sure like to
hear about it and we can follow up.
Travis Bader: So I, okay.
I was going to ask a different question,
but just an easy follow up on that one
would be, um, what's Like how, how would
somebody, who would they report that to?
Yeah.
How would they let people know?
And the other question that people, and
this was going to be further down the
line was, should somebody try and take
that animal out of the ecosystem, but
knowing now that it's going to be in the,
in the ground and every, everywhere else.
Like there's that whole
ethical thing as well.
Cait Nelson: Right.
Yeah.
Well, again, I think those are the
type of decisions that, you know, if
it's reported to us or reported to our
conservation officer service or our
local wildlife biologists, um, we can
then, you know, sort of, uh, get the.
the facts of the situation and,
and determine if, if it's, if maybe
we, we can rule out chronic wasting
disease if there's something else
that appears to be going on and
then it's not, um, as higher risk.
But, uh, uh, you know, I think, I think, I
don't think we can really encourage people
to, um, You know, remove these animals,
but definitely let's, you know, reach out
and we can, we can, uh, get the facts,
um, and follow up and then determine if
this is something, an animal that we want
to go in and collect a sample from, and
then we'll know, but yeah, without the
samples, without, you know, photographs
and videos are really valuable to us.
And those can always be, um, emailed
to us, uh, our wildlife health program.
Um, You know, again, going to the
website, all of our contact information
is there, and so we can be reached that
way through email or phone, um, and our
conservation officers, too, are that
with the RAP line, um, their call center
can direct calls to us as well, so.
So how was,
Travis Bader: how was testing done?
Uh, does, do you see false positives
or false negatives at times?
And, um, are there going to
be home testing kits that are
provided for hunters so they can
Cait Nelson: kind of field test?
That's the dream, Travis.
That would be great.
But, um, but no, we, um, so let's,
yeah, I'll explain testing a little bit.
And again, the, you know, how
important testing is right now.
It's so important.
Um, It has been, uh, a real priority
for us in the last few years as
the risk level, um, increased, uh,
because it's super important to catch
this disease as early as possible.
So all the samples, um, That
we've had that we've had turned
into our testing program.
Um, they're, they're mainly coming
from hunters, which is amazing.
And it really just highlights
the important partnership there.
Um, we need to test a lot of animals
to have accurate information about
what's going on on the landscape.
And so, uh, Our approach has been to let's
try and access these animals that are
already being removed from the landscape.
So through hunter harvested animals
and roadkill, uh, but still about,
you know, 80 percent of our samples
come from hunter harvested animals.
So without hunters, we wouldn't have
this program, you know, we wouldn't
have been able to detect these cases.
And hopefully we've We, because we've
really ramped up, um, testing in
the, in the Kootenay region in the
last few years, um, our goal is to
catch it as early as possible, right?
So that we can, um, uh, try and
contain it and, and slow the spread.
And hopefully that's, that's what
we've been able to achieve here.
But, um, yeah, those, those
samples are really key.
Also working a lot with the trapping
community, picking up roadkill
that they're using for bait and
getting samples that way as well.
Um, So once those, uh, samples are
submitted to us, um, what, what we need
to test for CWD are tissues at the back
of the throat and the base of the skull.
So we're testing all species in the deer
family, deer, elk, moose, and caribou.
Um, the majority of.
of samples that we receive are from deer,
but we're really interested in all those
species, because they can all, um, uh,
they're all susceptible to the disease.
So on deer, we collect a
specific lymph node at the back
of the throat and the tonsils.
So all we really need, um, you
know, at the beginning, you know,
earlier, um, earlier years of this
program, we always said, you know,
submit your head for testing.
And that's still great.
If hunters want to turn in a
head, we don't want the antlers.
You can cut the antlers
off the top of the head.
We don't need the, the, the brain
and the top part of the head at all.
Um, we're really just targeting those
tissues at the back of the throat.
So hunters can turn in a head.
Um, they can also turn in the low
jaw if they want to do a European
mountain and retain that top.
portion of the head.
Um, removing the low jaw just by
cutting around the arch at the back
of that low jawbone, all the tissues
we need are protected in there.
And so we've had a lot of
hunters just turning those in.
And that's a great sample for us.
Um, we're also providing training
for hunters if they're interested
in, um, collecting their own tissues
off their own animal, and then
they can just literally submit the
tonsils and lymph nodes in a Ziploc
bag to one of our freezer locations.
And, um, and so through our
training program, they can also
access, um, YouTube videos.
There's, there's lots of resources online
on, on how to collect your own samples.
And so we really encourage that too.
That's great.
Any way that we can make it easy for
hunters to turn in those samples, um,
you know, we're trying to support that.
On the elk, moose, and caribou, we do
collect slightly different tissues.
So we're still, um, collecting the
lymph node at the back of the throat,
but we need a portion of the brainstem
that's right at the base of the skull.
And so for that reason, um,
we do need the head intact.
Um, if you're going to be submitting
the head, cause we need that
portion of the brainstem and
it's, it's really just a section.
Um, it's called the OBEX and
it's right at the, at the
opening, the back of the skull.
If you remove that first vertebrae.
It's right at the back of the skull
there so hunters can turn in the
head of elk and moose that you've
harvested YouTube video or reach out.
It's pretty easy to, to get that sample.
If you want to collect your own samples
and then just submit those to one of
our freezer locations, and then you
can retain the, the skull and the head,
the, you know, the, the head intact, if
you wanted to do something with that.
Um, what we use, uh, is, uh, as
a grapefruit spoon, you know, the
small little narrow grapefruit
spoons that we all had in our in our
cutlery drawers when we were kids.
They're really hard to find now.
So if anyone ever is in a thrift store
and sees these little grapefruit spoons,
that would be a great gift to our
program, but they work really well, um,
for removing that Obex, that brainstem
sample from the back of the skull.
Um, and, uh, anyway, so yeah,
so that's another option
for, for submitting samples.
So yeah, we're just, we're
trying to create as many.
Uh, you know, remove as many barriers
as possible if hunters want to keep,
um, portions for a trophy or, um, you
know, if, if it's a larger head, they
don't want to have to carry it out
of the bush or something like that.
You just, you know, it doesn't, you
know, it's just a knife and a, and a
Ziploc bag and you can collect your own,
own samples and submit them that way.
And then you get the peace
of mind on that CWD result.
And we get the information
to inform what we're doing.
Travis Bader: Right.
So, and I guess the freezer locations
and training videos and all that
kind of stuff will be on the CWD
website or will there be other links?
Yeah.
Cait Nelson: Yeah.
We've got all of our freezer
locations up on the website.
Um, we have some descriptions
of, uh, you know, sampling, um,
instructions on the website as well,
and then YouTube too is a, is a good
source for, for different videos.
Travis Bader: So is there any promising
research that's being looked at right
now that can give people some hope?
I mean, obviously we don't have
anything definitive, but are there
areas that people are looking at that
say, huh, there might be a light at
the end of this tunnel right now?
Cait Nelson: Yeah.
Well, you know, I touched on
this a little bit earlier where.
We are very fortunate in BC that, um,
we've had some time, um, and, and the
benefit of learning from these other
places that have been managing, uh,
CWD in their wildlife populations for,
you know, two or three decades now.
And, um, And especially in, in more
research or recent situations where,
uh, some places in the States, um, have
detected the disease in the last 10 years.
And, and, You know, it's all hinging
on detecting it early, catching
the disease as early as possible,
which really seems to, um, increase
chances of, of successful management.
Um, but we've got some good evidence
now out of the States where if you
catch it early and you, you can apply
some management, you know, there's
some examples now where they've been
able to keep disease prevalence really
low, like below five or in Illinois,
like below 3 percent after 20 years.
of the disease being in
those deer populations.
So, you know, if, if I think
that is a success, right?
If, if you have the disease on your
landscape for, for, you know, after
20 years and you go out, there's only
a 3 percent chance that the animal
you harvest is going to be infected.
Like that, that would be pretty great.
Right.
And, and so the big recommendations
that are coming out of these.
These management agencies and
the CWD experts is, um, hunting
is our most important tool.
Um, for managing CWD and, and it's
these, these examples where they've
had success has mainly focused
through, you know, managing the
disease through harvest management.
So you understand the disease and
again, that's what we're trying to
accomplish right now is really pull all
the information together, get the, the,
you know, the local knowledge and the
experts, um, get all that information
so we can really understand the, the.
What's happening on on the landscape
and what animals are affected and where
and when you have that information you
can focus your, um, you know, management
targeting animals that are most likely to
be infected on a much like smaller scale.
I was talking about the importance
of surveillance right now and all
those negative results and how that's
allowing us to focus in and really.
you know, target our, our efforts
where it's needed rather than trying
to apply a strategy over a huge area.
If you're not going to have
as much success, right?
And so, um, yeah, just zeroing in on
the, um, animals that are most likely
to be infected, harvest management,
definitely the most important,
um, tool and we've seen success.
We're also really focused in, even
in these early days before we have a
complete picture, we know that there's
a risk of moving carcasses around.
We don't want, we don't want to
allow the disease to spread around
now that we know that it's present
in these areas in the Kootenays.
We don't want it to spread to
other areas and there's a risk
with moving carcasses around.
So we're focusing in, you know,
we're outside of the hunting
season now, focusing in on.
Road killed samples and how they're
going to be disposed of and where
they're being transported and making
sure that that's held on really safely.
Um, so that, you know, other actions
like that, reducing the potential for
that spread, um, we'll be talking about
how we're going to, um, approach the,
this next hunting season and looking at
harvest management as most important tool.
Um, you know, some places in, in
other, you know, other places have
applied some, you know, really.
removal of animals, you know, if, if
they can't achieve their targets through
harvest management, the supplement with
some targeted removals, um, following a
hunting season sort of thing to, to, you
know, focus in on those animals that they
believe to be infected or higher risk
populations or clusters of cases, those
types of things, but much more success.
Zeroing in on those small scales, then
some of the management that was applied
20 years ago, uh, or, you know, 20,
30 years ago, like, you know, it lay
in the prairies, for example, where,
um, there were these large scale culls
and they just, um, it was effective
in slowing the disease, you know, but
it was not, it was very controversial.
It was not supported by
the hunting community.
Um, and so they were not supported
and, and those programs were, um,
Were halted and unfortunately what's
resulted is continued spread and,
um, uh, of the disease and, and, and
increasing infection rates, right?
So we've learned from that and we've
learned about the importance of, of really
understanding the situation so you can
target your approaches and, um, working,
you know, really closely with the hunting
communities as, as a partner in this.
Because that, you know, hunting
is, is the most important tool.
And, and that's, that's the, that's
the advice that's coming out of these,
these places in the States that have
learned, um, you know, we've, we've got
a couple of decades now, lessons learned,
and we hope to apply that in BC now.
Travis Bader: Well, what are some of
the biggest challenges or obstacles
that researchers and policymakers
are encountering when it comes to
effectively, uh, Working through
this issue and what sort of, uh, ways
can the public help overcome this?
Yeah.
Cait Nelson: Yeah.
So, um, I mean, there's lots of little
challenges and, and we, again, learning
from other places, we've, we've had, um.
from these other management agencies
saying, you know, this, these
are the challenges that we faced.
And so, you know, we could be proactive
here in BC to, to try and identify
those and mitigate those ahead of time.
And so that's what we've been trying
to do is listening to our partners
in other places and our colleagues
and, and, um, and try and set us up.
you know, for success in BC.
So we've been putting a ton of,
um, effort into that planning.
And, uh, and fortunately, um, I
mean, we've been doing surveillance
for CWD and BC since for 20 years
since the early two thousands.
And, um, And, and back in, in
the, in the early 2000s, my, my,
um, boss at that time was Dr.
Helen Swansha, the Provincial
Wildlife Vet, um, in her wisdom, she
set up, uh, advisory, an advisory
committee and some working groups.
Uh, local working groups in the areas.
None of this is like 2006.
She identified, you know, the
Kootenai region and the peace region
because we're bordering with Alberta.
And at that time, those were
where the closest cases were.
We need to set up some advisory teams that
include, you know, our agency partners.
Experts, the, you know, hunting
communities and the, the, the
stakeholder groups, you know, First
Nations and get all of those minds
together at a table so that we can be
collaborative in this and, um, and,
and develop this program together.
And so I think that's really a
strength of our program and, and, and
it's going to set us up for success.
It's not going to be easy.
There's, you know, there's, there's,
there's very, very few examples out there
where, where things have gone perfectly.
But, um, I think having had these,
uh, these working groups established
and, and this, this collaborative
team, um, we've been working together
for, you know, 20 years now and have
some, a really, um, strong foundation
in partnership and communication.
And they've, um, provided input on
our surveillance and response plan.
Which we update all the time because
there's all this new information, so we
have continually updated that and the
plans available on our website as well
if anyone wants to have a look at it, it
details, um, you know, the, the steps that
we propose and then this initial response
phase, it's, it's, it's on our website.
But having all of those, that
input and that partnership at the,
at the table, I think is really
going to help us along in, in this.
Um, and there, there'll definitely going
to be some bumps in the road, but, um,
but if we can work together and, um,
and through everybody's networks of,
you know, communication and education
and, um, connection with the hunting
community and the trapping community
and accessing those samples and
everyone just kind of doing their part.
And we said in the beginning, um, I said
in the beginning, how amazing just in
week one, it's been, it's been pretty
intense, but what's been really, um,
you know, honestly, heartwarming is,
is all these groups that have reached
out and just said, how can we help?
What do you need me to do?
We have those, those, uh, all of those
relationships, um, established and, and
everybody is familiar with, with the plan
and we can just hit the ground running.
So, um, so that's what we're trying to
Travis Bader: do.
So how can we help?
We can submit samples for testing.
We can get grapefruit spoons, send
those ones on in, we can share this
with other people so they can point
them to the links, to the website where
people can, can find this information.
And, um, join in, join in, in the
conversation and be, be involved
as we're all stakeholders.
I mean, it's not us and the animals.
Yeah.
It's this is us.
Absolutely.
Cait Nelson: It's all about us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All that input is really valuable.
We always welcome, you know,
hearing from, from, um, from folks.
Um, insight, they've
got, you know, questions.
It just helps us to understand
what the concerns are and, and what
the values are on the landscape.
And that, that really, um, you
know, guides our, our work.
So
Travis Bader: did you want
to, uh, try some rapid fire?
Like you've been very Thorough in
all of your answers here, and you've
actually answered a number of the
questions that people have come up with.
Okay.
And we can always just refer them back.
Okay.
I wanna try rapid fire bunch
of questions from the public.
Sure.
Let's do it.
Okay.
Answer the public.
So Jason Subic says, uh, and
I'll condense it, essentially.
Um, he's in Ontario and they can bait
their whitetail deer over there and
wants to know thoughts on baiting deer.
Mm-Hmm.
and how that relates with chronic wasting
Cait Nelson: disease.
Right.
Oh man, rapid fire this?
Okay.
Well, we
Travis Bader: don't, we
don't have to rapid fire.
Cait Nelson: Yeah.
Okay.
Well, let me do my best.
Some will be, some won't.
Right.
Okay.
So, so yeah, we've identified, um,
baiting as, and, and consistent with
other places, uh, in North America that
have implemented, uh, You know, bans
on baiting because we know that these
baiting bringing animals and we talked
about this a little bit already, it
has the potential of increasing disease
transmission and these CWD hotspots.
So, so it's something that is definitely
on our list of risks and something that
we would try to, to reduce those risks.
Okay.
Travis Bader: Um, here's one,
which is, uh, it was condensed.
It was very emotional.
It's a well known, uh, butcher who's,
uh, deals with bovine all the time.
And he wants to know why there's a
different approach and response to,
uh, Mad Cow BSE than there is to CWD.
He says in the UK, at least previously,
they're testing every single beef that,
that went through, um, And we don't
have that same level of stringency.
Is there, is that, would
that be a political thing
that we're not touching here?
Would that be a scientific thing
that might have an answer behind it?
I
Cait Nelson: mean, I, I can, I can
try and respond a little bit and
again, not super familiar with,
with the response to, to BSE.
Um, it's, you know, just in general, it's,
it's a different environment to be working
in when you're working with captive
animals versus free ranging animals.
It's, it's, you know, there's,
it's apples and oranges, right?
Um, yes, we want to be testing as many
animals as possible because that provides
us with really important information
so that we can base our decisions and
our actions on science and, and that,
that, uh, that data, but, um, but, you
know, it's, it's not always practical
to, uh, Access every single animal.
But, you know, we have targeted some
of our efforts, like with our mandatory
testing under the hunting license
in specific management units in the
Kootenays that was done because we
identified those as higher risk areas.
And we really, it was so critical that
we got this information from those units.
And sure enough, that that.
Hunting license condition
and the mandatory testing.
It did exactly what we needed it to do.
It increased our sample numbers and that's
where we got our first two positive cases.
So, you know, if, if we didn't have
that, um, that level of information from
those units, we might've missed these.
And so, you know, that's,
that's been really important.
And so we have taken some action to,
to, uh, you know, make it mandatory
for testing, but for now it's really
been focused in on specific areas.
Travis Bader: Uh,
turnaround time on testing.
So when he submits a sample for
testing, process the animal, it's in
the freezer, it's stored somewhere.
Uh, what, what does that
turnaround time kind of
Cait Nelson: look like?
Yeah, the turnaround on testing
has been, um, a real challenge.
Uh, I can say that.
You know, across Canada, um,
there's really a limited, uh,
capacity in labs that are able to
do the diagnostic test for CWD.
And as it become, as it's continues to
spread, programs are expanding the, um,
pressure on these few lab facilities
that do the testing has just increased.
And so what that has meant for
BC, we've always sent our, um,
Samples to a lab in Saskatchewan,
and they've been great to us.
But over time, those turnaround
time on results have just been
getting longer and longer because
of the demand on those facilities.
And, um, and, yeah, they're just
there hasn't been their resources
to, um, To increase that capacity,
uh, you know, in, in the same
rate that programs are expanding.
Right.
And so that has been an issue.
And I think the last couple of
years were, were our, our worst
years for turnaround on results.
And I know that's very frustrating
for hunters and it's frustrating
for us too, because we want that
information so that we can, um, you
know, inform our risk and everything.
Right.
Uh, so, so we're.
We're trying really hard to, um, to
streamline that process as much as
we can with, with, you know, the,
the resources that we have available.
Um, in the, you know, coming years,
uh, we hope that we're going to be able
to increase efficiency and testing.
We're going to be setting up
a, uh, testing, uh, facility,
uh, at our BC agriculture lab.
Um, just coming up now, I
think we're going to submit
our first samples next week.
And so we're hoping that
that's going to help.
This is the first time we've
had access to a lab in BC.
We're hoping that that's going to help,
um, CWD detection, I think, um, you
know, there's even more support for.
Forgetting that system, you know, as
streamlined as possible so that we
can get, have access to that, that
the results as soon as possible.
Travis Bader: Within the management
plan of CWD, has there been any
conversation or consideration to re
issuance of a tag if a hunter canceled
their tag and had a positive result?
Yeah,
Cait Nelson: that's a
really good question.
And of course, it's come up.
Um, you know, it's something
that we will, you know, consider.
I'm sure, uh, there hasn't been a lot
of discussion on that front so far.
Um, but we know from
examples from other places.
They've been able to do this.
I know, you know, in Alberta issued a,
uh, replacement tag for a while, um,
until the number of cases just became,
uh, sort of, um, Overwhelming to them.
And, and, and in that situation,
it wasn't feasible to issue
replacement tags anymore.
So every situation is different and, um,
and we're going to have to evaluate that
for in the BC context to see what's going
to make sense for, for, for us here.
Travis Bader: So I butcher my own meat.
I'm very fortunate.
My wife's a red seal chef and
part of her training was to have
butchery training and all the rest.
So.
I've got a lot of help
there, which is really good.
Or maybe she's got help for me, but,
um, but a lot of people don't, if
you have a CWD animal and you've
taken it to the butcher, and now we
know about these prions and how they
can transmit, um, what happens now?
Or do we now have a full butcher,
uh, supply full of animals that could
have been clean, but are now being.
Put out with these
Cait Nelson: prions.
Yeah, I think, um, uh, butchers have
some pretty strict protocols, um, within
their, you know, practices that, you
know, decontaminating between, you know,
animals and, and making sure that animals
are, um, processed, uh, individually.
Again, I'm not, um, super familiar
with that process, but that is my
understanding that, um, that, you know,
hunters have to follow some pretty.
Or rather sorry, meat cutters
have to follow some pretty strict
standards on that, on that front.
So yeah, I, you know, obviously if a, if
a CW positive animal is submitted to a,
to a butcher, you know, there, there would
be some, some follow up and making sure
that, you know, all the All the Ts were
crossed, but, um, I trust that, you know,
that, that system, um, you know, their,
their practices are, are dialed and,
uh, and, and that's sort of their, that
that's, that's their, that's their realm.
That's their.
Travis Bader: Right.
Fair enough.
So here we have an interesting question
because, you know, a lot of these
prions are going to be found in the
spine or brain is typical knowledge.
Now we're learning about
in the, uh, in the.
Well, when you say the lymph nodes, yes.
So I, now we don't have confirmed
cases of a transmission from
the animal to the human.
It's recommended that the human, if
they have a positive result, that they
dispose of it and they do it properly,
preferably through incineration,
through, through the province and.
Are they able to minimize the spread of
prions through proper butchery techniques
that can avoid cutting into the spine,
into the brain and then into these areas.
So if they wanted to make that
educated decision themselves, they're
rolling those discs, those dice
in a, maybe a more favorable way.
Cait Nelson: Yeah.
Well, what we can say to that
is, um, we know that these.
preons can be present in any part
of the body, but they, they do tend
to concentrate in certain tissues.
We call high risk tissues.
And that includes, you know,
the central nervous system, the
spinal cord, the brain, um, yeah,
these lymph nodes and organs.
They do those.
Those types of tissues in the
body do tend to have a higher
concentration of prion material.
And so the advice is that if possible,
limit handling of that, limit cutting
through, you know, the spinal cord
and, and, um, contaminating your tools,
um, as much as, as much as possible,
just to limit the handling of that and
then, um, proper cleanup afterwards.
Right.
So, um, decontaminating surfaces, making
sure tools are cleaned, uh, as much as
we've talked about how these prions are
indestructible, there's actually some
paper that was published, uh, recently
in the last few years that, uh, indicated
that a 40 percent bleach solution,
uh, on metal surfaces will help to,
um, sort of, deactivate those prions.
And so, uh, so that applies to, you
know, knives and, and, you know, a
stainless steel, you know, bench,
if you've got something like that.
Um, so getting a good bleach
wash of those is recommended.
Um, does it, you know, it, it's not.
Doesn't seem to be as effective on
other surfaces like concrete or wood
or, you know, those types of things,
but you know, that's, that's how we
clean up our, our, um, spaces when we're
sampling is, is a good bleach solution.
So, you know, just general,
um, general hygiene as well.
If you can wear gloves when you're
handling this material, wash your
hands, all that kind of stuff.
Which is, you know, just kind
of applies to everything.
But, uh, yeah,
Travis Bader: 40 percent bleach.
So I like that.
I've always used quat, which is what
they use in the restaurant industries,
but this is probably a cheaper, easier,
Cait Nelson: better.
Yeah.
And, you know, it, I don't think it's, um,
will, uh, get rid of all of the prions.
Like there's still potential,
but it does seem to help.
Travis Bader: So here's my question.
Is there anything that
we haven't talked about?
Wow, I
Cait Nelson: think we've, uh,
We've covered a lot of bases.
I'm trying to think of
what we talked about.
We've had a good, good
long conversation here.
Yeah, no, I just, I just really
appreciate, um, you know, I know I've
already said it, but I just want to
reiterate the, um, how much We value our
partnerships out there, especially with
the hunting community, um, and, and our
stakeholder groups, um, they really are
the advocates for wildlife out there.
And it's, um, it's been really rewarding
in my career to work with those groups and
see the passion and, and dedication and.
everyone showing up to volunteer and,
and, and just help out wherever they can.
Um, so I just, I just, I guess
I just want to say thank you for
that and, and for that support.
And just to say, you know, you
really are, um, you really do
have an important role in this.
Um, we hope, we hope to, to move through
this CWD situation and, you know, in,
in lockstep with, with those groups.
I know everybody is wanting the same
thing and we just, uh, um, really
appreciate having that support.
Um.
So, so yeah, just to,
just to shout out there.
Travis Bader: Well, Kate, I'm
sure I could speak for anyone
who's watching or listening.
We really appreciate you taking
the time to give this information
in a very thorough fashion.
And we're going to have links on the
website, links on the description
so people can see where they can
find more information as it evolves.
But thank you very much for
being on the Silvercore Podcast.
Cait Nelson: Thank you so much, Travis.