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Luminous Voices invites you to a brilliant space where words illuminate the soul. Each episode delves into the heart of a remarkable individual, uncovering the singular, essential message they want to share with the world and with you.
From renowned theologians to everyday saints, these luminaries offer a beacon of hope, a spark of inspiration, and a glimpse of the divine. Join us on this journey as we explore the depths of the human spirit and the power of light filled words.
Tune in to Luminous Voices and hear a more light filled world.
James Browning: Hi, my name is
James, and this is luminous voices.
Each episode.
We hear from someone who is
speaking light into the world.
Today.
Let's talk about reading
the Bible together.
Michael McDonald: Yeah.
Well, I'm Michael McDonald,
uh, not the singer.
Um, not from the Doobie Brothers.
Uh, and I, yeah, I'm in Portland, Oregon.
I work at a non profit animation
studio called Bible Project where
we make, uh, explainer videos and
podcasts and, and other things to
help people experience the Bible as
a unified story that leads to Jesus.
James Browning: Michael.
And the Bible project are
an innovative nonprofit.
They creates free and amazing sources for
churches and the church and my own church.
We recently launched an
initiative called 1 million more.
With the goal of engaging a
million people in reading the Bible
together, not just on their own.
Michael and the Bible project team
have made an incredible impact
and build a thriving ecosystem.
Of tools and resources that are
free and easy to use for churches.
And I'm personally thankful for their
willingness to form a relationship
with us to further the idea that the
Bible was meant to be read together.
Michael McDonald: Uh, we
started about 10 years ago.
And we are just super passionate
that we got an amazing team of
people, storytellers, artists, uh,
theologians, scholars, um, tech people
that help contribute to the project.
And we do this all for free because
we've had incredibly generous patrons
from around the world that, uh,
crowdfund the project so that we
can keep giving this stuff away.
And so everything's available.
on the YouTube machine and,
YouVersion and everywhere else, uh,
our own app and website, et cetera.
But then also, uh, when it comes to
things like the 1 million more, um,
Bible reading groups that are out there,
we get to provide stuff, uh, for free
when anybody like yourself comes forward
and it's like, Hey, we'd love to, to
use your stuff to help us in this way.
And so it's a gift to
get to, to do this work.
James Browning: Anyone can
use the Bible project videos,
app and studies on their own.
But they were really designed
to be used in community.
So what makes reading the Bible
together different than just reading
on my own in my own quiet time.
Michael McDonald: If there is one
thing to get, I think that it's that
reading the Bible together, like revives
its original communal orientation.
Like something we've
mostly lost in today's.
Individualistic focused
world that we're in.
And the Bible wasn't written for solo
reading, uh, but for groups of people,
passed down through, uh, storytelling
and, and public readings and, kind of
what we were talking about earlier.
Back in the day, uh, believers
mostly encountered the Bible
by listening together, and by
talking and debating its meanings.
Like, that was what it meant to
do this, reading letters out loud.
And, uh, when we read the
Bible in community, we get,
I think, some big benefits.
Like, we Uh, one, you're not alone in the
tough parts, like how many of us, myself
included, gave up in my Bible reading
in Leviticus, because I'm like, this is
just ridiculous, I'm not reading this.
You're not alone during those.
You can talk through confusing
sections, you can share insights,
you avoid misinterpretations that
come from often going it alone.
Like, I bring my own context and baggage.
into reading anything that I read
or watching anything that I watch.
And so, I grew up without a dad.
My dad left when I was three.
My stepdad was pretty gnarly and abusive.
So my idea of father has baggage
for when I read those scriptures.
And to be able to read those in
community and hear other people's,
either struggles or blessings or
encouragement helps me, in that space.
James Browning: Michael believes that
the Bible helps each one of us, each
individual to be better, to be more
like Jesus, because we are in community.
But even more than that, Even larger
and bigger than ourselves, the
Bible can make not only me better.
But also my communities.
Michael McDonald: Uh, I think the Bible.
If you're like me, it can be
challenging, uh, both in understanding
it, but also like in applying it
and in applying the learnings.
Um, so having others around you like
helps you keep going, helps you go deeper.
Uh, and I think throughout history,
the Bible's helped Communities
define who they are, those cultural
parts of us are very defining.
And I think reading the stories
of the Bible, together can
also do that to us today.
Like, I think, I think of like my own
reading groups that that, you guys
call them book clubs and I love that.
Um, it shapes shared values
and a sense of purpose.
When you're doing this together, , so I
think like in our very individualistic
times, creating spaces to read the Bible
as a community can kind of bring back
this powerful collective experience.
And again, whether that's a Bible
study, whether that's a book club,
whether that's church, whether
that's gathering with friends.
I think it makes the Bible feel
fresh and relevant, just like
it originally was meant to be.
James Browning: Beyond the novelty of
a new perspective and the freshness
of a new voice speaking into your
time in the word, reading together.
Also brings a place to wrestle
with the challenges of the Bible.
And the support to endure
the practice of obedience.
Michael McDonald: Yeah, I mean, kind
of like I was saying, like, I think in
community, if it's a safe community,
I guess, but in community, hopefully
you can safely, wrestle with questions.
You can wrestle with doubts.
You can, wrestle with complex
passages together, like you're
not, so, you're obviously not
struggling alone through that.
Each person brings their own unique
background and life experience to
the table, which deepens everybody's
understanding of the Bible.
Transformation isn't
easy, at least in my mind.
And it takes time.
You can ask my wife about that.
But having a community around you,
um, gives the encouragement to
support, the accountability, to
keep going and face those parts.
I think, uh, reading and applying
like the things that you learn in the
Bible as a group means that the whole
community can start to embody its values.
As well, uh, as opposed to just
me thinking about I've got to
embody this, idea of generosity.
It's just different when you
bring a group of people together
and go, what does generosity look
like for us in our community?
Practically, we've got a, um, a group that
we would, spend time with and read with
and allow it to shape the way we think.
And that birthed some ideas around
generosity for our neighborhood.
Uh, and if it was just me, I don't
know if that would have been the
thing that I would have thought of.
Amazing neighbor who noticed another
neighbor's roof was like falling apart
and brought that idea to the community
of like, what would it look like to go
and help, put a new roof on this home
because we know there don't have the
funds or the time or money to do it.
And so I think it starts to
shape you as a, as a community.
James Browning: Studies show
that Christians who are in strong
communities like small groups.
Are better at giving.
They have a greater impact at their
church and among their friends.
And they're even better at evangelizing.
Why.
Because they aren't doing it alone.
But what does it mean to
be shaped as a community?
What does it mean to be willing,
to adopt a defining culture without
giving up our individual identity?
If we were meant to put the
Bible into practice as a defined
community, what does that look like?
Michael McDonald: Together you
become this living, uh, example.
of, what the Bible is teaching,
and showing the impact of faith
in what we're reading to others.
I think that's what Paul meant when
he said, you're a colony of heaven.
Like, there's something like a colony was
these like outposts that meant were meant
to represent Rome in these, places that
they would put up stack, like everything
felt like Rome in that little tiny town.
And I think Paul was basically saying,
like, when you get together as a
community and you allow the teachings
of Jesus and the letters and the
gospels and all the things that they
would have been reading, all those
stories to shape us as a community,
you will be like a colony of heaven.
You're going to show what.
Heaven looks like to people here on
Earth, and that's going to draw people
into most likely wanting to be a part of
that because it's pretty beautiful when
you start looking at all of those things
that you'd be set apart in that place.
And so I think getting together to
engage with it today restores that
kind of original intent, which,
which we got to see in this ragtag
group of people coming together.
that were totally not similar necessarily
and from different economical groups and
races and all the things coming together
and allowing something like the Bible
to shape them as a community is what the
intent, I think, was from the beginning.
James Browning: If this is true.
If we are called to be a colony
of heaven, divine, diaspora.
Then I have to make community work.
There is no such thing as a colony of one.
That's not a diaspora that's exile.
And while making community work as hard.
Biblical community also makes it easy
to see deeper and more luminous truths.
Michael McDonald: It's more trustworthy
if I just trust everything that one
person is saying, it can easily go off.
But if you've got a full community
of people sharing something
similar, it's more trustworthy.
I go, Oh, that's interesting.
Like, there's a lot of different
types of folks in that circle that
are all kind of saying the same thing.
There must be something to it.
and I think that's helpful.
James Browning: This idea of living and
being, and doing together is central
to the core of the Bible project.
Michael McDonald: To be honest, the
whole project was started in community.
So it's from the infancy, this whole
thing has not just been like Tim
wants to teach a bunch of people.
It was John and Tim, two friends from
Bible college that, uh, came together
after, doing their own thing for a while
and said, Hey, what would it look like
to read the Bible together and learn?
So I want John's like, Hey, I, in open,
um, And just the truth, the reality
is, when the project started, John,
myself, probably many other people, were
probably living in a little bit of like
a post Bible Christianity, meaning we
were in, we're Jesus people, we're at
church, I was even a pastor, but do I
really need to read the Bible anymore?
Uh, and when I do, I feel like I'm
leaving with more questions than answers.
It's not doing what I hope it would
do, which would give me the right kind
of steps to take and that self help,
whatever, all the things I was approaching
the Bible as a self help guide, a
moralistic rule book, an answer book,
all the ways we approach these things.
And I think when John talked to
Tim and realized like, Whoa, Tim is
not approaching the Bible this way.
But he is approaching it in this like.
epic narrative that is ancient Jewish
meditation literature that is shaping
and you have to keep going back and
looking at it and meditating on it.
You got to read it in large swaths,
not these individual verses to get
a little verse for the day, but
these like, what, what's the context
really understanding all of that.
It starts to actually shape and it turns
into wisdom versus just information.
And I think that was the project
was started in community with the
idea of reading it together in
community and then sharing that
knowledge with a larger community.
And so I don't, I don't know if you
could separate the concept of this
communal literature from our content.
It's always been with the idea
that this would be used and shared
and read, hopefully in a way,
um, that was the original intent.
Like reading the Bible on its
terms would include that it
would be a communal, uh, space.
James Browning: Reading
the Bible on its own terms.
And honestly, those terms are spelled
out pretty clearly and Ephesians.
There is one body and one spirit.
Just as you were called to the one hope.
That belongs here.
Call one, Lord one, faith,
one baptism, one, God, and
father of all who is overall.
And through all and in all.
That's a lot of oneness, a lot of unity.
And honestly, sometimes it just
feels easier or maybe faster.
If that one body and spirit.
We're only mine.
Michael McDonald: I'd try to remember
the quote, but if you want to
go somewhere fast, do it alone.
If you want to go somewhere far, do it
with others, uh, and I think a lot of
the stuff that we're trying to do that
we're passionate about in any of the
projects we're working on, most of the
things that I'm wanting to invest in
in my life now are things for the long
haul, their, their marathon, my marriage.
I want to be married for, for
the rest of my life, to the
same person, uh, who I love.
That is a marathon, not a sprint.
I can't do that alone.
I actually need her.
It takes two to do that one.
Um, but like many of these things, whether
it was the work I was doing overseas,
starting schools or, or, building
refugee camps or whatever that is, like
you just, you just can't do that alone.
It's actually impossible.
You actually need others to do the
big things that you're talking about.
Um, and I want to be a
part of doing those things.
Uh, and.
I think for me, it's, yeah, it's not the,
the kind of pithy, together is better.
It's just that most of the things that
we're looking at doing take other people
and, and actually it's a lot more.
Fun to do it with others.
It can be challenging for sure.
I hate when, uh, I've got an idea and
somebody else, throws a wrench in it,
if, if I didn't have that other person,
I could maybe just go and do the thing,
but I can tell you in almost all those
scenarios, it's better because of that
person that was able to poke holes in
the idea or, it's one of the reasons
Bob and I, our wives would be like,
can you guys just do this, like travel
together instead of doing it alone?
Um, Because we would bring different
points of wisdom into the conversation.
We, um, and we debrief after and we'd
kind of go, Hey, was that a good idea?
What do we think about this?
What do we think about that?
And so the same thing that I'm talking
about with, with this Bible reading,
it's like when you've got others,
you can go, I'm hearing it this way.
I don't know if it's off based off
of like the bad pizza I had last
night or because I, I'm not feeling
well, or I'm bringing in my own kids.
Context into it, my own family
baggage and everything else.
You, you get to lean on one
another for understanding it.
I can't remember.
It was a friend of mine that said, like a
point of view is just a view from a point.
So.
So I've got a point of view about
something, but it's just a view
from my vantage point to this thing.
And then somebody else has a point
of view and it's, it's a view
from a point from their space.
And the scriptures, there's a reason why
we keep, whenever we go back to reading,
even sometimes the same verses or the
same passages or the same stories that
they hit different almost every time.
And we've got like Christianese
language that talks about this being
like the words living and so it's
ever changing and everything else.
But I also think like.
Our context is constantly changing.
My, my life is constantly changing.
And so when I approach a psalm, Today,
it's going to hit me different than
it did a year ago, because I was going
through something different a year ago.
And that's what's so amazing
about, uh, the Bible and, and these
scriptures is that like they meet us
at different points in different ways.
So that when you do that in a group,
all of a sudden you've got like 10
different ways to, to see a text
and how it's hitting in these.
And then you've got the spirit
of God that just throws a
whole other thing into the mix.
That's just crazy.
You put all of that together.
I mean, I think there's, again, I don't
want to christianize it, but there's
like, we're two or more gathered,
I'm like, there's, there is something
about being with others and approaching
a situation and the Spirit of God,
and all of a sudden, things unlock.
And, and I don't have the best memory.
One of the crazy things with the
Bible, and if you've, If you've
been a part of Bible Project for
any length of time, you know this.
It's all hyperlinked.
I mean, from Genesis to Revelation, there
are just, there are constant callbacks.
It's always a callback.
Jesus is always calling back.
I mean, you can just almost
bring everything back to Genesis,
but there's a lot of callbacks.
It's a huge collection of scrolls.
So I can't remember
everything all the time.
But when you got 10 people in a room,
you're gonna have somebody be like, Hey,
that reminds me of that story with David.
And then you're like,
Oh man, that's crazy.
Yeah.
And then you open up that.
And it's like, yeah, that
reminds me of the story of.
Moses and then what's going on with this
and all of a sudden this, this crazy
collection of scrolls that is the Bible
we know it is now is all connected.
And again, I don't think you'd be
able to do that just with yourself.
And there's so, I just, yeah, the, the
whole idea of the communal aspect for my
own life and for, for others is, it's it.
It's just it.
James Browning: Many
people look to resources,
commentaries, podcasts, sermons.
And even videos like the Bible project.
To make the Bible easier.
I know I do.
But being a part of the community
often comes with messy, hard work.
So does reading the Bible
together, make it easier or harder
than just reading on my own.
Michael McDonald: Well, I don't know
if I would use easier or harder.
I just think I would say it's,
it would be more authentic
to the way that it was written.
I think it is a more authentic way
to approach it than, the way that
you would if you were on your own.
So whether it's easier, harder, I think
for some, some days it's way easier
because I've got other people that
are speaking in and give me wisdom.
When I get to sit down with Tim and
go, Tim, I don't understand this.
Like that's way easier.
But.
It's harder in the conviction side of
things, because now I'm hearing these
different things that I'm like, oh
boy, that actually is transformative.
Like, transformation isn't easy, even
though it's really good, it's not easy.
And I think there's something that
happens when you read the Bible in
community and have a deeper understanding
of what Jesus is calling us to that
makes it hard, because we're now.
accountable to that
wisdom and that knowledge.
And the reality is, is that God's
wisdom on our life is going to be
hard because it's going to probably
change us and change is not easy.
And that's why I think in Proverbs
it says, Iron sharpens iron.
It's not pillows sharpening pillows.
It's not soft.
It's like sparks.
It's, it's hard.
It's like a stonemason,
like carving away stone.
That is not an easy process.
It's really good and it creates
a beautiful thing at the
end, but the process is hard.
So I don't know if I'd
answer it easy or hard.
I think in some ways it might be easier.
Some ways it might be harder,
but I think at the end of all
of that, it is the intent.
I believe that God had for us in
how we should actually approach,
uh, diving into these narratives and
collection of stories and books and
letters, that we find on our shelf.
James Browning: The 1 million more
Bible campaign is meant to help people.
Re-examine the Bible, not in a new way.
But in a very old way.
The first way.
Which was together.
Christ lived and died and rose again.
So that all things could be
United in Christ, things in
heaven and things on earth.
And the Bible was meant to help
create that unity in Christ.
And be read in that unity.
And just like Michael said, No big
thing can be accomplished alone.
That's why we're so thankful for
Michael and for the men and women
at Bible projects who are so open
and generous, not only with their
work, but with their community.
Michael McDonald: No, thank man.
I'm just so grateful for you guys.
I love, I love what you're doing and
your heart for this and for all those,
uh, churches and individuals that
are taking the deep dive of joining a
book club to read the Bible together.
I mean, Kudos.
That is, it's hard.
Like you said, it's, it's gonna, I
think it's gonna be a lot of fun, but
it's also really hard and the real
work is, uh, not just necessarily
showing up, but it's, it's going
to be, yeah, reading it together.
And so I just commend you all
for doing it and grateful to be
along in the journey with you.
James Browning: And I want to thank
you for listening to luminous voices.
You can learn more about the 1 million
more Bible campaign@onemillionmore.bible.
And dive into the many amazing
things that the Bible projects
has created@bibleproject.com.
Download their app or watch
their videos on YouTube.