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Veterans know how to lead. The lessons we learned in the military form the foundation for bigger successes in business, entrepreneurship and community.
Host John S Berry, CEO of Berry Law, served as an active-duty Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army, finishing his military career with two deployments and retiring as a Battalion Commander in the National Guard. Today, his veteran led team at Berry Law, helps their clients fight some of the most important battles of their lives. Leading successful teams in the courtroom, the boardroom, and beyond, veteran leadership drives the firm’s rapid growth and business excellence.
Whether building teams, synchronizing operations, or refining tactics, we share our experiences, good and bad, to help you survive, thrive and dominate.
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[00:00:02.01] - Chris Carlson
Bad leadership, I think, is the flip side, where it's clear that it's their agenda, their ego, and they stop listening to others. That's something that's most apparent on a movie set. There are so many people around, and if the director isn't open to the full team, that movie is in the process of failing like a dumpster fire, but nobody will tell him because they've alienated the people they're working with.
[00:00:30.00] - John S. Berry
Welcome to Veteran Led. I'm your host, John Berry. Today's guest is Chris Carlson, a program coordinator for Syracuse University's Daniello Institute for Veterans and Military Families. Chris is also an actor with more than 40 movie credits. Welcome to the show, Chris.
[00:00:46.10] - Chris Carlson
Hey, thanks, John. Happy to be here.
[00:00:48.14] - John S. Berry
I want to get to your involvement with the Daniello Institute. But first, let's talk about your recent movie, Abroad.
[00:00:56.07] - Chris Carlson
You bet.
[00:00:57.00] - John S. Berry
For those of you that don't know Chris, he is on stage quite a bit as a public speaker, but he's also an actor. He helps Veterans in business, and he's also a lawyer.
[00:01:07.16] - Chris Carlson
That's right.
[00:01:08.09] - John S. Berry
Chris, I think the skill that most of us have underdeveloped, and those are those acting skills and the voiceover skills. Let's talk about Abroad, and we'll go from there. So, the movie Abroad recently came out around Halloween this year. What's it about?
[00:01:23.18] - Chris Carlson
Yeah, the movie Abroad is streaming on Amazon. Very proud of that film. Won a couple of awards. It's an independent, cross-cultural, psychological thriller. I have the good luck to play a good guy and a bad guy. I don't want to give it away too much. But that film was about my 40th film, and I've been doing this a long time, enough time to do that many films. It has been out a little bit. There was another short film that came out around Halloween, and that was something called Sweet Revenge.
[00:02:07.02] - John S. Berry
And that was the Jason Voorheys, Friday the 13th, yes.
[00:02:09.22] - Chris Carlson
Yes, sir. And that one was a lot of fun and is more recent But it's a vignette. It's a short film. It's sponsored by Angry Orchard. It's got a lot of wrinkles, but it was a blast, and I enjoyed doing it.
[00:02:26.10] - John S. Berry
Outstanding. And so, Chris, one of the things that you do, obviously, you've got a great voice, but you also coordinate programs for Veterans through IVMF. Tell us a little bit about what you do.
[00:02:39.22] - Chris Carlson
I work with military Veterans such as yourself who are looking to scale a business. Sometimes they're looking to start a new one or acquire a new one. My focus has always been on making sure that when the Veteran business owners get to together that they do so in a way that is the best story possible. Let's put it that way. In other words, you get value from it. You're like, Wow, this was amazing. I was able to meet who I needed to meet. We got some stuff done. I was able to learn some information. I started this job years ago with Bunker Labs with the understanding that those types of interactions are so valuable, especially for Veterans. So I'm kind of an experienced guy, John.
[00:03:31.09] - John S. Berry
You talked about story. That's something that's pretty important to you and has been important throughout your career. Take us through the history of that, of how that got started and how you've... Narrative transportation, story, and all those things have played a big role in your career as an actor, public speaker, lawyer, and program coordinator?
[00:03:49.15] - Chris Carlson
Well, I could go all the way back. First job I got out of college was at a theater. I got the job because I applied for it, which was odd because I wasn't an actor. I had no training, but I managed to get one of the few paid apprenticeships at one of the larger theaters in the country. From then on out, I was in the professional acting world in as much as I got paid to do acting. But after one year of acting, John, guess what I found out? It's not a very stable livelihood. One year after working professionally, after my first job, I went to law school because a professional degree, as you well know, is something that you can take with you. And so that held, for me the power of more control, of having a greater impact. And for me, and then I'll check in to make sure that I'm being clear in telling you what you are looking for. When we're rehearsing a play, it's fascinating. It's interesting, it's engaging. It's as close to pre-trial as I think you would ever get outside of an actual trial. But then when you run the show, it's work.
[00:05:24.13] - Chris Carlson
In fact, I was doing 15 shows a week, and it's a lot of work, and it's not as engaging, and I missed the engagement. So, I went back to law school, found out that not a lot of people got the training that I saw was very valuable. They told us how to write. They told us how to think. And then in the last couple of weeks of legal writing, they said, Oh, yeah, get up and argue and use natural gestures. Be persuasive. I mean, all kinds of unhelpful things. And from then on out, I bounced between the arts and the right brain subject matter, knowledge experts like yourself. And then Veterans.
[00:06:10.14] - John S. Berry
Right. Absolutely. What I like about what you do is You seem to everything seems to be tied together, but you still have a law firm, isn't that correct?
[00:06:18.23] - Chris Carlson
Yeah. Well, I still practice law. It's a colleague of mine early on. It's immigration law, specifically humanitarian relief, asylum, adjustment. It's pizza money in as much as every once in a while, I get some money. I did try to scale my practice at one point, but that would have required me getting into some visa work and some other things that I didn't find as engaging or wasn't able to act on as much at that point in my life. So I still do practice law, a very small law office. I have a real mean guy for a boss myself, but I do enjoy the work. And in fact, it's exploded now. And it is connected because the connections between law and acting and program coordination at IVMF, they are connected for me. That's my biggest perk, my biggest benefit.
[00:07:27.00] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I've noticed there are people that love to get into the black line of the law. They love to get into the deep research and argue about what the law means. But then there's a whole other group of lawyers, the trial lawyers that really want to get into the narrative, telling the client's story. Sometimes I find it the most fascinating because so often we get so caught up in, what does the statute say? What's the precedent? And what do we have to prove in this case? What does the other side have to prove? And what are our experts going to say? What are the other experts going to say? But what it really comes down to sometimes is simply being able to tell the client's story.
[00:08:12.04] - Chris Carlson
Yeah. Well, I would argue, and when people ask what I do, it's usually I'm faced with a crossroads. Do they really want to know or do they want the short answer? If they really want to know, I tell them that I tell stories for a living to skeptical audiences to achieve a specific result. Then I go through and I say, Yeah, I do that in immigration in court. I do that with military Veterans. I do that in front of the camera and the stage and so on and so forth. I would go so far as to say John, that everything that you just said, including the Black Letter of the Law, is narrative. I'll never, ever forget one of my first trials. It was just an appearance in front of an immigration judge. So a baby lawyer I'm getting all my... I make my argument, and we've got it. We've got this case. So I communicated clearly. I actually am convinced I persuaded her. That's the law. This is the point. And she says, Okay, denied. And I sat there, and this is what hit me. I was clear on my argument. I was persuasive on my argument, but the one thing I needed was the only thing that mattered, and that is to get the judge to act, to do something.
[00:09:28.02] - Chris Carlson
Now, if that's a jury, you have to to get them to vote, to get them to acquit. My point is stories are the only thing that we are responsible for. The law is a narrative, and there's a story. You dig down and it came from this policy. And your story of the client is the story of how those two things intersect. So I would say it's absolutely the same thing. A little bit extreme that way, but yeah.
[00:09:57.22] - John S. Berry
When I was a young lawyer, I read a book called The Best Story Wins. And that was the whole thing. And I think, yeah, if you get too involved in abstract legal concepts, you're not going to connect with the jury. And we always do that. But what I didn't know was, like you said, You probably won't connect with the judge either, because we all learn the same. We don't just take a bunch of facts and then we make a decision. There's a story and there's an emotion behind it. And we figure out who we're going to align with based on that narrative. And so it's I guess I'll ask you this, Chris, how do you develop those storytelling skills?
[00:10:34.12] - Chris Carlson
That's what it's all about, is getting better and being good and making an impact through the narratives, through the stories. I think the short answer is that I see many opportunities to practice. Right now, we're telling a story. You and I are telling a story. Seeing those practices as exercises in truth. That's something that when you were talking about lawyers and law and who wins, there's a heavy bias that it's like, Oh, you're a lawyer. You're going to manipulate the truth. And whoever has a better lawyer wins, or, Oh, no, I'm not going to act because acting isn't real. Well, at the end of the day, it is all about the truth. If you see a good performance, how do you describe that? Wow, I believe that guy. If you see something that's bad, you don't. The first thing is to really see the interactions that you have as stories, and then to identify the different pieces. It's just like any complex system, or you have to understand how it works. People throw around like, Oh, you're going to be a storyteller story. Well, There's a lot to it. I think that the more you become a student and a practitioner and are prepared to fail and surround yourselves with people who are really good at it and learn from them, I'm stopping and saying, Um, because I gave you a lawyer answer there in that it depends on a whole bunch of other crap.
[00:12:22.23] - Chris Carlson
But at the end of the day, we're always telling stories, and I think that if we're more aware of them, I think that we could become better at them.
[00:12:31.05] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I think that's great advice, because when we tell the story, we usually think of things that are important to us that are seldom important to the audience.
[00:12:40.06] - Chris Carlson
That's right. There you go. That's probably... Way to go, John. That's a better answer than what I had. To become a better storyteller, just put yourself in the place of the audience. What do I care about? Just do that. The next time that you're thinking about anything, a presentation, an argument, so what? When I worked with entrepreneurs, I boiled down pitch decks and everything, and actually I've applied it to everything. What is it? Whatever you're dealing with, what is the idea? What is the thing? How is it different? Why does it matter? We're doing it all the time. If you go into Whole Foods and there's a new fruit, ugly fruit, star fruit, you're like, What the heck is this? It's a fruit. Okay. But wait a minute. How is this different from any other fruit? Oh, it's got this, this, and this. Why does it matter? Oh, wow, it's got this. If you can do that through storytelling, you are going to succeed more than anything else.
[00:13:40.14] - John S. Berry
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's about influence and as a leader. To tell the story, you're getting people to do things. In the military, we would talk about leadership is the art and science of influencing and directing others to accomplish a mission. But I've always believed leaders get results. To me, leadership is the art and science of getting results. If you don't do it right, you may get some short term, but not long-term results. Now, I bring this up because it's something important you're going to be doing, and you do very well. I'll tell you something, in a few weeks, we'll be in New York City at my capstone for my second year of CEO Circle, but the new group is coming in, and you're the guy that brings them in and then gets all these Veteran business owners who are usually very confident but guarded, and then start to say, Okay, we're going to have these groups. We're going to go deep on some stuff. And you're able to use story and other skills to get them to buy in in a way where they are going to show up, be present, and contribute.
[00:14:43.10] - John S. Berry
How do you prepare for that?
[00:14:47.10] - Chris Carlson
Great set up, John, and you're right. It is an amazing event. Let's see, how do I prepare and make that happen? I would say two primary contributing factors, two big elements. Number one is Todd Connor. Todd Connor is a master facilitator. He knows stories on a human level. He's a true master, and to watch him work is really a lesson in mastery. He leads the cohort through a series of exercises that let them know right away, I am around people who want me to succeed. I can trust them, and I'm not afraid to be vulnerable or to fail around these people. Once that narrative starts to take hold, anything is possible, in my opinion. How do we prepare for that? We make sure that that message is explicitly communicated. We say that, but more importantly, implicitly communicated by showing each CEO that you're a hero, that you guys are amazing, and sharing with each other your skills and your challenges and your achievements. What we try to do is essentially set the stage. If it was a movie or a play, But also just be consistent with the kinds of things that are necessary for that connection to happen, that psychological safety, that sense of support and accountability, and also being and pushed and urged on.
[00:16:32.01] - Chris Carlson
So there's no one answer, but I think at the end, it is making sure that everyone feels empowered to tell their own story and to listen to others.
[00:16:43.10] - John S. Berry
Yeah, that is exactly what we all want to be able to create in our own organizations. And so I think it's great to see the Daniello Institute modeling that at the CEO Circle and saying, This is how you do it. Because the takeaway sometimes isn't just what you see in front of you. It's taking the lesson from how they're doing it. So when you see someone on stage, they're giving a great presentation, it's not just... Don't get caught up in the story. Also, pay attention to what got you. What was the hook that got you and that got you to start to feel it? And I would ask you this, Chris, When you're acting, and you know, sometimes things fall flat, sometimes you know you've really landed it. This is the emotion I'm trying to convey, that my team is hearing me, or my team is not hearing me, or the audience is not is not engaged, how do you set your gages so you know when you're communicating effectively from the stage or in a small group, but when you're trying to influence others and trying to tell a story, how do you know whether it's landing or it's not?
[00:17:45.15] - Chris Carlson
The shortest answer is that you connect with the audience as you're telling the story and then afterwards. In the theater, we would do a performance, we would have previews, and we would talk to them. Did you get this or how would you rate it? But as you're describing it, whether you're working with a group or at an event like the Capstone for your cohort, Todd will stand up there, I'll stand up there, and he'll read the room. We're using all these fuzzy terms, but we're using them because it's fundamentally an emotional dynamic. If I'm telling you a certain piece of information, it's not the information alone, but it's how it's landing with you, how it's resonating. You look out, and if there are people looking at you and nobody's looking at their phone, or there's some nods every once in a while, there is a connection. People are so challenged for attention, John, that when they give it to you, it is a tremendous achievement. If you have a majority of the people's attention, that's successful. Then going up afterwards and saying, How did that go with some trusted people? Who won't just say, Oh, it was great.
[00:19:02.13] - Chris Carlson
I think it was great, and then not say why, because nobody's going to come up to you when you say, How did it go? It was awful. It was really bad. I was really disengaged. I looked at you, but I hated it every minute. People don't say that. You have to go from that observed metric of, are people with me? You'll hear Todd even say that like, All right, I think we should take a break here. I mean, he'll sense that and he'll act on it. I think it's this something that we touched on earlier. It's really putting that audience first, how you get a sense of them, and even giving them an opportunity, either through the surveys. You've been very good about your survey, John, so thank you. I appreciate that. But seriously, in the moment, it's probably the best. It's getting a sense of whether they're there.
[00:19:52.03] - John S. Berry
It seems to me there's two points to it. I heard Dan Sullivan, an Army Veteran, used to say, If you've got the right audience, that message is always I think that's part of it. But I think the other part is I actually hired this woman to be one of my public speaking coaches because I saw her do a presentation and I did not like the material, but I could see the talent. She was so meticulous about everything. Because I wasn't engaged in the story, I was able to step back and just look at the mechanics of it, and I was like, Wow, this is a professional. Her story was about an accident The hero was the financial advisor. She works with financial advisors. But the real hero was the personal injury lawyer who got all the money that they can give to the financial advisor who won the case. But they don't bring that up. I was disengaged. I was like, Come on. The real hero is not the financial advisor. They just took the money and they made it last. The person who mattered was the person who took care of the family by winning the case.
[00:20:53.05] - John S. Berry
But that person got no prop, so I was instantly turned off. But that being said, I was there. I learned that And really good presentations, I'm sucked in. The narrative transportation happens. Emotionally, I'm there. And when they're not good presentations, then I usually am like, okay, or not. I'm not engaged. I'm like, okay, is this a good... And I start grading it and saying, were they doing well? Because I think there's so much you can learn from picking up. So I go to conferences, there may be... You guys have amazing speakers, the former Bunker Labs, IVMF, CEO Circle, amazing speakers, right from Jamie Dimon to Stanley McChristol to JJ Peterson, all these great presentations. But as a lawyer, I'm sure you've been to some conferences where the presenters were less than engaging. And I'm watching them going, I should never do that. This was good. And so I find that you could learn a lot, even from bad speakers or from speakers who you maybe disagree with for whatever reason, just different interests. But I found that my grandfather, who was a lumberman out in Iowa, several lumber yards would say, There's never a lumberman so bad.
[00:22:06.05] - John S. Berry
You can't learn something from him. Would you say the same about actors?
[00:22:10.09] - Chris Carlson
Absolutely. I think that what you just shared, John, I think pretty much encapsulates it. Your speaking coach engaged you. You liked her. So in the first milliseconds of seeing a human face, we make two decisions very quickly. Do I like this person? And are they competent? Can they do something? Are they for or against me? And can they help or harm me? Can they act on that? Those are very, very quick impressions, but we calibrate them throughout. For the instance you described, you immediately liked her, but you listened to her message and I'm like, I disagree, but I like this person, and she does seem to be quite competent. This particular thing I'm not selling. I'm not buying what she's selling. If I'm watching an actor and I just think it's awful, and I'm so bored, I try to figure out, what is it that they're doing? Sometimes I can put my finger on it, sometimes I can't. But you absolutely, going back to what I was trying to say earlier, if you approach it as, I'm bored, they're awful, Why? That's what I heard you say, John, or they're really good. They're amazing. What makes them amazing?
[00:23:23.05] - Chris Carlson
It's hindered by the fact that a lot of those impressions happen instinctively. That system one and two. System one operates without our conscious awareness. We make these quick judgments. What we're reacting to is if someone's being authentic and genuine and real and they are like us, we are going to react to that very positively. If they're being fake or if there's some dissonance, we're not going to like them. So that first requirement is to be as genuine and true and real in as authentic as possible. The people you listed, JJ Peterson, Jamie Dimon, Stanley McChristol, all of them, absolutely, they were in their skin. The second part is the competency, and man, those guys hit it out of the park, and they share that with you, and you're like, Wow, I like this person, and they can really help me. I always try to ask myself that, and sometimes I don't know the answer. Sometimes there's something in it that I'm like, For some reason, I'm just not buying it. Conversely, there's also sometimes where I was like, I just love this person, and I don't know why.
[00:24:34.02] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I was just at an event in Kansas City. I guess it was three weeks ago. And Rob Riggle, I guess today is the Marine Corps birthday. I know this will air later, but former Marine, and then becomes an actor. Saturday Night Live for one season, then they cut a bunch of the people that gets cut. But then he shows up in a lot of movies like The Hangover and Step Brothers, and some of these in these comedies where he's just hilarious. And this is a guy that he's likable, he's engaging, he's funny. And somehow you look at, go back, I know he had a book that recently came out. I have not yet read it. I don't remember the title. But he said, look, the story is he was going to be, I think, a pilot in the Marine Corps, and he realized that he didn't want to be a pilot. So what am I going to do? What's the deal I'm going to make myself? I'm going to be on Saturday Night Live. I'm to be an actor. And then it took a long time. And to have that, I think that determination, a lot of times people see acting as, Oh, well, you're going to show up, you're going to get your break.
[00:25:40.04] - John S. Berry
But it doesn't work that way, does it?
[00:25:41.22] - Chris Carlson
Well, you make your own luck, and Sometimes it comes along, sometimes it doesn't in the way that you think. But the real key, and I think that this does translate to leadership in many cases and to the law and others, is that you have to focus on the process independent of the outcome. If you are proud, and that's the one thing that I still say to my clients is that I can't guarantee that we're going to succeed on the petition or the application because I don't know I'm not the fact finder. But what I do guarantee is that we will tell your story. I have more control over that. If we commit to that process of making sure that that's successful, the rest will come or it won't come because they might be looking for somebody that's not as tall as me, that doesn't have the same color as the eyes of me, or it could be in law or it could be the raising capital for your business. All you can do is create your luck and do what you can to focus on the story of the person that you're in front of, that audience.
[00:26:54.16] - Chris Carlson
How can you help them succeed? One thing that I think is very important when it comes to getting breaks and keeping at this, is that you've got to put yourself in the role of the mentor and not the hero. The audience is always the hero. Nancy Dworat, I think, said this, or actually, maybe it was Joseph Campbell. But if you do that, I think you're going to be in a better place because you can always help people. If you look at it as helping people, you're going to succeed, as opposed to if you're casting yourself as the hero, you're only going to succeed when you get that reward, the magic sword, you lose that motion, and you consider yourself a failure unless you said, No, we did everything we could.
[00:27:43.20] - John S. Berry
Unless you're Arnold Schwarzenegger and you saved the world from the Terminator, killed the Predator, and they're always the hero. But speaking of leadership, let's go to the After-action Review. Chris, let's talk about your best example of great leadership and your best example of Bad leadership. You don't have to name names.
[00:28:03.06] - Chris Carlson
So best example of great leadership. Was that the first one?
[00:28:07.05] - John S. Berry
Correct.
[00:28:07.19] - Chris Carlson
Best example of great leadership. I just saw a clip. This is off the top of my head. I just saw a clip of a former world leader. And the advice that I was hearing demonstrated such a deep humbleness as a human being. And I think that it's that authenticity. I'll never forget Lequilence, Velvet Revolution. He was a poet, and they said, You should be president. He says, I don't want to be president. I thought, That's the hallmark of a true leader. They don't necessarily want to lead, but they're more dedicated to the cause itself. So that's what I got from that interview. And then all of a sudden, I thought of Lequilenza. Bad leadership, I think, is the flip side, where it's clear that it's their agenda, their ego, and they stop listening to others. That's something that's most apparent on a movie set. There are so many people around. And if the director isn't open to the full team, that movie is in the process of failing like a dumpster fire, but nobody will tell him or her because they've alienated the people they're working with. Those are my answers, John.
[00:29:25.09] - John S. Berry
Outstanding. Chris Carlson, where can the audience learn more about you and your movies, your role at IVMF, and everything? Because at your law firm, there's a lot of pieces here. So where can we learn more about Chris Carlson?
[00:29:39.12] - Chris Carlson
Yeah, it's a complicated narrative. I need to work on making it simpler. So Sweet Revenge, you could Google that. You could search it up on YouTube. That's a fun short that is the comeback of Jason Voorhees, and I play a small role in that. Abroad is on, I think, Amazon streaming, and that one's fun as well. I help other people tell their stories through my business, Narrative Pros, and that's narrativepros. Com. As opposed to the P-R-O-S-E. Anyway, too clever. I was too clever when I named that. But IVMF continues to be my home, the Institute for Veteran and Military Families by Dan Danielos. A gracious sponsorship continues to be the home for CEO circle and attracting wonderful people like yourself. I think that that ivmf. Org is probably the best way you could find my bio there. I think that's it. The rest of it is Easter eggs. I think there's a reel somewhere, chriscarlson. Info, IMDb on there. We could go on and on, right, John? Now, I'll be on this wonderful podcast.
[00:30:55.22] - John S. Berry
Great. But I do want to get to the narrative pros. I think this is so It's important for veterans or anyone who has a business, the story matters not only to your prospective clients, but to the people who might want to join your team. It's something that you have to refine. I thought we had a great story. My dad's a Vietnam veteran started the firm, a well-known lawyer. It seems like this is easy, but then you start to put it together in a way that's digestible, and you still want to do the Joseph Campbell, Hero of the Thousand Faces. You want to take them on the hero's journey. You want to show them you're helping them, but you also want to tell your story. So it sounds easy, but the truth is, when you want to resonate with your prospective clients, you want them to know it's about them, not you. But they have to know enough about you to know whether you're qualified so they can decide whether they like you, whether they trust you to be competent. So it's very tough. So what you do is very important. And if there's one thing I could do, I wish I would have learned that earlier and just paint someone that, write it for me or coach me through it because doing it on your own, you can't read the label from inside the jar.
[00:32:04.08] - John S. Berry
You have all these things that you know about your organization that may or may not be relevant, that may or may not be relevant to your ideal client. I think crafting that narrative is so important. You can do it on your own. You could do it with a team, with a group. But working with a professional who cares about communication, storytelling, and does it, and studies it day in, day out, is the difference between having a story that is amateur and one that is professional?
[00:32:29.07] - Chris Carlson
Well, Yeah, John, and I appreciate that. I would equate it to anybody can represent themselves and have a fool for a client. But we do what we do because we have a tactical set of skills. And acting and storytelling is just simply another technical set of skills. The reason it's so difficult to acknowledge is because we tell stories all the time. And so we think, well, oh, gosh, yeah, I'll just be myself. I'll just tell a story. I'll use natural gestures. But what happens is doing it on command when you're super stressed and the stakes are high and you're feeling nervous, that's really tricky. And that's what we can help you with. We meaning fellow artists and playwrights and graphic designers, there is a science to it. And I love helping people like yourself. And I work with a lot of really smart people, doctors and lawyers and scientists. And There's nothing that makes me happier than that sense of justice, that those stories that could really change the world are freed from, you call it amateur, but their own limitations. I think it's the same thing with a good case or a good leader.
[00:33:54.04] - John S. Berry
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we seek to help Veterans build an even bigger, better future after military service. Unfortunately for some of our Veterans, the roadblock to a better future is that they are not receiving all of the benefits that they earned. If you need help appealing a VA disability decision, contact Berry Law.