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More to the Story with Dr. Andy Miller III is a podcast exploring theology in the orthodox Wesleyan tradition. Hear engaging interviews and musings from Dr. Miller each week.
Transcript
Welcome to the more of this story. Podcast. I am so glad that you all come along. This is a great episode coming up because I have my friend who's gonna share a bit of her testimony and her vision, and how God's using her around the world. And I know you're gonna be excited to hear it first. This podcast is brought to you by Wesley Biblical Seminary, where we are developing trusted leaders for faithful churches. We've just added a course of study for the global Methodist Church. And this has been exciting for us because we have 250 new students
Andy Miller III: at our seminary as we're serving them, helping them to be equipped to serve the congregations that God's called them to in the global Methodist church on top of the work that we've already done and already doing
Andy Miller III: through a bachelors of pastoral ministry, various M. A's. And Mdiv. Doctor of Ministry programs. We would love for you to find out more about Wesley Biblical seminars. You can find that out@wbs.edu. Also, I'm thankful to my friend Keith Waters and W. Po development. They are a group that come alongside organizations, churches, schools develop mission planning studies, strategic plans, facilitate capital campaigns, and they've done that successfully
Andy Miller III: for more than 250 organizations around the country, and I highly recommend them to you and Keith and and his team do a wonderful job, so you can find out more about them. In my show notes.
Andy Miller III: Also, if you're interested in things coming from this, podcast I have an email list where about a couple of times a month. I send something out, and it's
Andy Miller III: And what I have is a free resource for folks. If you sign up for that email list called 5 Steps to deeper teaching and preaching. It's a Pdf document and a 45 min teaching with me that I'd love to send you if you sign up for my email list.
Andy Miller III: and if you are in a phase in your church or your small group where you're looking to start a new study of some kind. I have 2 resources on my website. One is a study of the little book of Jude. There's 6 video sessions with discussion guides that are available. And I also have a book that's just come out on the book of Jude. It's called Contender. Both things could be done together. You can find out about that at my website
Andy Miller III: and then and that's Andy Miller. The third.com is Andy Miller. iii.com. And then. Now, just at the beginning of September, there is a new study coming out on heaven. It's a Biblical journey to worlds beyond what we can understand, and I'm so excited about this one. There's 5 sessions on heaven, one little session on hell. I think it's important to be able to talk about that as well. So that's coming out. And that's a resource that you
Andy Miller III: can use for your church to think more biblically about the important doctrine of Heaven.
Andy Miller III: Alright! I am so glad to welcome into podcast Joy Griffin, who is a co-founder of the International Leadership Institute, and we're going to find out more about that. But first I just have to welcome in my friend Joy. I'm so glad to have you here, Joy
Joy Griffin: Andy. Thank you. I'm so honored to be with you
Andy Miller III: so Joy and I serve on the Frances Asbury Society Board together. She's also the Vice President of Indian Springs, holiest camp meeting where I preached this summer we run in very similar circles, and I'm so glad that that we get we're in so many circles together. Joy. It means a lot to me, too, Andy, and cause I just wanna I wanna jump in and say for your listeners and watchers, what a privilege it was we actually got to be together this summer in July, at Indian Springs Holiness Camp meeting, as Annie just said, and
Joy Griffin: I just want you all to know. Thank you for praying. Andy did a beautiful job. Jesus use him mightily, and every sermon that he preached and and God came, and there was much, much response. And so I
Joy Griffin: I I'm honored to be with you, and I appreciate all your doing for the Gospel, and how you're using your calling in many different ways. There wbs as well as in places like at a camp meeting where so many people are hungry and met the Lord, and healing and saving and sanctifying power. So thank you. Thank you. Oh, I love, I love being there. I feel it's definitely a family of mine to be in it.
Andy Miller III: Indian Springs. I did do that heaven series there, and I preached a sermon on hell
Andy Miller III: in the middle of it's awesome at 30'clock, and outdoors in the middle of Georgia heat, so I felt like people identified with that that very appropriate well, it's good joy before we get into. I just. You have an amazing story of how you know, experiencing, healing, and coming to Jesus. In the first place, I'd love to walk through that with you before we kind of talk about some of the work that God's called you and your husband Wes to do.
Joy Griffin: Hey? I'm I'm glad to tell you, cause I'm so grateful for what God has done, and I I became a Christian. I grew up in first. I'll back up. Grew up in Methodist church very rural part of Georgia on a dairy farm, and so it was a small Methodist church, but but I became a Christian when I was 12, and I'm very grateful for that I knew that I asked Jesus in my heart.
But then, as I became a teenager and and grew a little older, I really wanted to have my devotions, and was was trying to grow. But as I really read my Bible, I began to see that my life was not like Jesus, not all the way, not loving him with all my heart, not having a piece that pass. It's all understanding, not forgiving people the way that Jesus did when he was hanging on the cross.
And so I really really began to struggle and have questions, but unfortunately
Joy Griffin: I did not have anyone a pastor close by, or or a spiritual mentor to help me, because, unfortunately, again, I grew up fairly close to the city of Atlanta. I mean, it's rural, but I mean, I'm an hour and a half. The closest seminary, I should say, was actually a very liberal seminary. I did not know anything about an Asbury at the time, or Wbs
Joy Griffin: and and so I realized now that what was happening is, we had student pastors that were going to school there, and and were not even really learning much about salvation, much less entire sanctification. So I struggled during that time. But then, then, after even college, I thought, well, maybe the way you figure all this out is to learn more about the Bible. So I just was naive, but didn't know any different. And so
Joy Griffin: I applied to that seminary. It was actually just horrific, as far as what was being taught there even in those days, I mean, like I had an atheist, Professor Andy. I mean that I know that it just blows everyone's mind. But it was the truth, and he was very unashamed atheist.
So so that was not helpful spiritually, but I was only there a couple of weeks, because at night I was playing on a women's softball team, and that year, for some reason we had just
Joy Griffin: gotten all the way to the championship. So yes, but not not officially. I really played basketball in high school. So but just more recreational softball. Anyway, it was a real critical play. It was at the end of the game. It really was to try to save the game and to win the game, and I dove for a line drive intentionally, just trying to get to the ball.
Andy Miller III: Good news is I have to throw this in. I caught the ball and we won, but it was just like a little ice cream cone hanging out there. But so that's the good news we won. But
Joy Griffin: when I hit the ground on the front of my body, for some weird reason that no doctor anywhere can understand why it ripped away everything from the bone in my back, and I was instantly paralyzed. So yes, horrific, horrible and position! Were you playing? At that moment I was center. I was in center field. The line drive was coming right over second, and I ran, and you know was able to get there. But
Joy Griffin: so so I was taken to medical doctors and specialists all over literally all the United States. After month and month and months passed, but but there was nothing anyone could do physically, you were literally paralyzed in this time.
Andy Miller III: So yeah, when you're there like, do you remember like, could you do any? Could you move your your arms or anything my hands could move. I could talk, but nothing from like chest down, nothing at all. So my mama made what in the South we call a palette, just a a quilt, a blanket on the floor, and someone had to feed me with a straw, and then I couldn't go to the bathroom couldn't move. I'm just sit up or move, and so they had to put a bedpan under me.
Joy Griffin: Embarrassing depressing. It was just it was horrible. But there was nothing, nothing changed from that moment. They are on the ground with the softball for a year and a half 18
Joy Griffin: absolutely. So another thing, just because this makes the miracle even bigger is that I never had a period during that time, because everything on the inside, everything was in wrong places, and so so so. It was a very sad time physically it it it hurt, you know. There was much pain all the time. There was constant pain. Nothing that the doctor said
Joy Griffin: could do. But Andy here was the worst part. The worst part was my heart, because I remember laying there and thinking, I'll never be able to stand up and walk somewhere to find somebody that can help me spiritually with this hunger that was in my soul.
Andy Miller III: Wow.
Andy Miller III: yeah. So you came to that school at that time, and searching hung yes, all of a sudden. Now, not only is like the opportunity to be a mother
Joy Griffin: future all of that. And then and then spiritually, to the opportunity. Questions answered or
Joy Griffin: yes, and here's the good part. Get the Lord sent to my little country church. It was move time, you know. Whoever the little student pastor was, you know, graduated and went back to wherever state that they were from. And so for the first time, instead of a student, we've got this really old for me. He was like a grandpa age.
Joy Griffin: Older retired pastor, who retired, you know, close. I don't know 8, 10 miles from where I lived, and he was willing to supply that little church, but guess what
Andy Miller III: he was gloriously sanctified, totally filled with the Spirit of God. He had. He was an old Asbury man, and he was willing to come and serve that church. So he's who came and helped me understand what holiness is, and who the Holy Spirit is, and about entire sanctification, and and how that hunger could be filled in my soul.
Andy Miller III: His name was Howell Hearn. But just all of you. Actually, you went to school with some of his grandkids. Probably you know, also people who attend Indian springs to family really well known there. So actually, I wanna have, I think, John, I'm hoping to get him on my, podcast at some point that's awesome. Yes, I asked him. He kinda said, no, but I'm gonna push him some more. Okay, so keep go. So so here you are, you you interact
Andy Miller III: who the church members are. And then they came to me
Joy Griffin: and and and Andy, when they came through the door of our little farmhouse. I wouldn't know what to call it at the time, but now I know it was like the Shakana glory I mean. They were dressed in regular farm clothes, like my parents and other neighbors were, but they were different there. There was an aura. It was just Jesus. And so
Joy Griffin: he began that day, he said, I know that you're hungry, and Jesus can feel you because Jesus said, Blessed are those that those that hung thirst after. I, Jesus still be filled, and if you search for me with all your heart she'll find me. And it took me a long time, though, Andy, I was a real sort of a skeptic, or I wanted you to prove it to me, and I wanted it to be true. But day after day that precious man came faithfully and expounded God's Word, and explain
what the experience of entire sanctification means is how to experience that. And the glorious part is that after a few weeks.
Andy Miller III: I did experience that, even though I couldn't move physically. But but my heart was bouncing off the walls when I really surrendered everything to Jesus, and he really filled me with the fruit of the spirit. Wow! So you were at this point still paralyzed. Absolutely. Yep.
Andy Miller III: wow! And you know, of course that was that was sad. But I remember just thinking, you know, if I lay here for 100 years, it's okay, because my heart is taken care of it was just so blur. Obviously, you're walking, you walk around the world. You try your heel at some point. When does that come into the story.
Joy Griffin: Yes, actually, just 2 weeks later, from that day that day happened to be July sixteenth. It was just a glory day for me 2 weeks later. There are. It was camp meeting time and and in the county where I live there actually are still 3 little, very small compared to an ending spring. Small little Methodist camp meetings and we always went, I mean, but obviously I could go nowhere physically, but
Joy Griffin: but but the newspaper had come out, and my parents held it, you know, upside down. Kind of for me to to see the photos, and there was a photo of the evangelist. He was an older man, another like a grandfather aged to me, and I need to say his name, because a lot of your listeners will know this family also. His name was Tom Barrett, and I didn't know him at the time that he was from South Georgia, so I didn't know who he was.
Joy Griffin: but he was coming. But the other guy, another photo was the guy that was gonna be the youth director for the week, and I actually knew him. He was a friend, you know, that I had known before, and I knew that he was not filled with Holy Spirit. I knew that he was in ministry, but without the power of the Holy Ghost. And so I said to my parents, Please, will you take me? I've got to go and tell my friend and his wife
what Jesus has done in my heart, they will believe me, and and I know that then then he will begin to understand what holiness is so.
Joy Griffin: That is how, for the first time in 18 months, the only time in 18 months, except for going to a doctor appointment somewhere. My parents picked me up and laid me in the backseat of the car and drove me to the little. It's not many miles away, little Camp meeting, and I laid me on the little cement porch where the preachers usually sleep, and then I was sharing with my friend what got it done in my heart.
Joy Griffin: and just as I was out he was so excited his eyes were big, saying.
Joy Griffin: Have I not seen this before? II know it's real for you please help me. Just as that happened, a car pulled up like just a few yards away, and it was the older man. It was Tom Barrett who was just pulling into town to be preaching that week, so
Joy Griffin: I don't know if you want to keep. I'll just try to just make it too long. But he he! They shook hands. Oh, meet you! We'll pray for each other those kind of nice things that you say. And then Brother Tom looked down and saw me, and then I couldn't move. So first his first words were, Well, you're not laying there for the fun of it, are you? And first I thought, are you crazy? Of course not. But later I thought
Joy Griffin: he did not see them bring me. You know he did. He didn't know. So actually, my friend responded quickly about the accident, what had happened.
Joy Griffin: But then he was different from everyone else. Other people that might have come to our house, you know, to see me would say, I'm so sorry this happened to you. Too bad, so sad! I wish they could do something to help you, but they can't. You know that kind of thing? And Andy also, every once in a while, when people would leave, they'd say, We'll come back and we'll be praying for you, and I am not saying they didn't pray, but nobody prayed out loud.
Joy Griffin: and I understand why? Because it looks hopeless, you know, kind of afraid to. But instead, Brother Tom's response, instead of saying, I'm so sorry it happened to you, he said very sweetly, so gently, just. Oh, my! Such a humble man, he said, well, have you ever asked God to heal you?
Joy Griffin: Wow, yeah. And then that was a new thought for me to be real honest, I mean. I was so excited my brain was on my heart at the moment. But then, here's what he said, and this has helped me in praying for other people.
Joy Griffin: he said, honey, I do not understand healing. And so when he said that, Andy, I knew he was honest. I thought he's real, because none of us know. And he said he said, I don't understand why some people are healed and some are not.
Joy Griffin: he said, and I don't understand why we go to church and pray for somebody, and maybe they die next week.
Joy Griffin: he said, but everywhere I can find in the word. When they brought people to Jesus. He healed them, and I know he's the same. The bottle says yesterday, today and forever. And he said over the book of James is calling the elders and pray, and I'm just willing to ask for you so precious, so humble, and I was just so so grateful.
Joy Griffin: so in that moment did he pray for you, or did you wait till? Yeah. Yeah. He he actually I knew that what he was saying about the Word of God when he said, saying yesterday day forever, remember, my heart is different now. Before I was sanctified the word was kinda you know, maybe a little grey, but now it is black and white, and I'm I believe it, you know. And I really I did say these words. I'm I'm confessing to you. I don't think that I was
Joy Griffin: in agreement with him. I was in so much pain. It wasn't like I didn't know how to expect to to be able to sit here and talk to you, or use my hands, and stand up and down and run and jump. But
Joy Griffin: but he just began to pray, and he was talking to Jesus like I am you. You're like
Joy Griffin: it was so simple there was nothing formal, and I can't tell you the words, he said, but somewhere in the prayer he he quoted, Matthew, 1819, about. If 2 of you agree on earth touching anything, it will be done of my father that's in heaven.
Joy Griffin: and then I don't know what else he said. I know he kept praying, but when he said those words, Andy suddenly it was just a numb feeling. I can't even describe it just numb, like I didn't hurt anymore. But it was so foreign to me to not be in such pain that II almost thought maybe I'm dreaming. You know this is, I'm sleeping. But the next thing I heard he said was, did anything happen?
Joy Griffin: And I said, I don't know. Then he said, Well, can you move anything? And and other people have said to me later, like I've never known anybody that was healed. What did you do? Did you maybe wiggle your toes, or I don't know why I didn't do that. I was just so stupid. I was so excited, and I literally just jumped up, and I did Jumping Jacks and I ran into, and I did it back. It was like nothing
Joy Griffin: happened. Jesus healed me like all the way instantly in that moment.
Joy Griffin: Wow! Joy! I love it! I mean you did Jumping Jack.
Joy Griffin: and and then and I have to throw this in for the girls. Everybody I mean. It just makes the miracle even bigger. Is that just a few hours after he prayed, after I was healed, I started my period again, and we go. But now God has given us 2 precious babies that medically aren't supposed to be here. I mean, I'm just so thankful, and the next morning I have to say this, and II gotta stop. I know. So excited. The next morning I ran a couple of miles. I hurried because I wanted to get to church to tell people got it heal me. But the next week
Joy Griffin: I ran the whole way in a 10 K. Race, I mean, that's 6. It was like nothing had ever happened. So God used it, and the doctors were blown away. Many people came to the Lord because of it, because they say, Well, sometimes, you know, on television, I'm not sure if it's real or not. But they knew me, and and then I could run and jump. So I just it's sort of like the met the lame man. I'm so so grateful.
Joy Griffin: Oh, I love it, joy! So at this point, then you have this experience, and you kind of, since God's leading you somewhere else. And so what happened next should have thrown this in one of the things that that reverend hearn shared with me. I mean it was the Word of God, I mean every day just so precious explaining about what sins
Joy Griffin: are, you know, outward actions of sin, but also what Si n singular carnality original within our heart, and that that that the Bible says that doesn't go away unless God washes it or purifies cleanses, sanctifies our heart.
Joy Griffin: But while I was laying there, and and he would come day after day
Joy Griffin: he was so precious, and he actually brought some testimonies on tape
Joy Griffin: of of people that you know. And I know that are your mentors also, like Dr. Dennis. Kinlo.
Joy Griffin: yeah, John Oswald. Many people who who actually your great, your grandfather, was one of the testimonies from an Indian Springs. Can't many.
Joy Griffin: Tom? And it was. It was human beings today that
Joy Griffin: had had a hunger like I did in their hearts, and God had filled them. So I knew as soon as I was sanctified. I thought if I ever could move again physically.
Joy Griffin: I know I'm supposed to go to Asbury just to grow and to learn, but I never dreamed that could happen, but now that I was healed I was able to go, and so I'm so thankful to be able to sit under godly folks to
Joy Griffin: to help, just help me grow and grow more and more as well as missions professors, because when I was a little girl I had felt really called to the mission field to go tell people about Jesus that had never heard, and and so I'm so thankful to be able to had that opportunity and continue to know brothers and sisters like you, Andy, and and
Joy Griffin: many of my friends have taught and are teaching at Wbs after it was founded. And yeah, I'm just so grateful for our our relationship and our community.
Andy Miller III: Yeah, yeah. And and so I mean through through. I'm sure we could talk about other things in your time as for a seminary, but you know, as as you work through that period, God then directed your life and some other unique ways, I mean. So you have this leading towards missions. What did after you finish the seminary? I mean this really great guy who's a
Joy Griffin: excellent fisherman. Well, you know, the way I met that guy was that you know my parents. Really, you know, we we were just farmers, but but had they had spent everything on doctors? And II just didn't have a vehicle, you know, and that's not totally unusual at Asbury, but but I had not met my husband or now yet, because we we're in different classes. But A friend said, Well, hey! When there was a break time, you know.
Joy Griffin: Oh, different people saying, Hey, is anybody going to California? To Texas? To wherever? And a friend of mine said she had been in a class with a guy from Georgia, and he might know somebody. So I actually met Wes that way and said, you know, do you know anybody that's going home for the break? And he said, I'm going. I'll give you a ride. And so it's been a great trip, even though we that first ride we just became great prayer partners and buddies, and shared each other's testimonies. And
Joy Griffin: but on that first ride we both actually thought, this is the kind of person I want to marry someday, you know, but you didn't want to mess it up. We were just buds. But then then Jesus redirected our lot. We did. I did feel call to Wes, and we got married, and that was glorious. And just after we were married and had our 2 children. Hen and Caleb had just been born when the Iron Curtain came down
Joy Griffin: and the sub former Soviet Union crumbled, and so the Lord directed us. We just we went as missionaries to the little country of Estonia, because in the Wesleyan world some of the big, our mentors said that they knew that there were some believers there that had survived occupation, and maybe that could help be a beach head to get back into all of Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, with church plantings planting. So
Joy Griffin: we went. What their big desire was was a seminary, and we had just gotten out of seminary. We were just kids, but but they had had nothing since the 1940 S. When World War 2 happened and everything had been destroyed. And so the Lord miraculously. It's a whole nother day of stories. Helped us to begin a seminary, and so it's called the Baltic Methodist Theological Seminary, and we had half.
Joy Griffin: I look very Russian, Andy, cause I'm darker, Skinny, you're you look more Estonian, because you're more blonde, lighter. My husband was, too, actually and
Joy Griffin: but we had half and half. And today, literally today, that's how society is because of occupation. The way that the Communists forced Russians to come into all those little republic's to work. So we had to use translation equipment that. But they can't understand each other. I mean, it's totally different languages. And it was through that that actually helped to begin to birth.
Joy Griffin: What we're doing today, that is, we thought if you could train somebody in their own mother tongue, they can get to their people faster. So sort of common sense, almost. But after the Government gave accreditation to that seminary, we were able to then come back and begin the ministry called International Leadership Institute. So we do. Training for Christian leaders.
Joy Griffin: Not always, but almost always Third world and closed access places that don't have the opportunity, and then they, in their language, their mother tongue, go and and multiply what they've learned in their tribe or city or village. So that's how it has spread.
Joy Griffin: Gotcha. So you guys came back, and then you started that work. It's all over the world now. Yes, sir, we're just in awe. But you know, I believe it's because people are hungry. That's why it's a it's it's just the Lord's moving. I. The the leadership material is not rocket science. It's really just the word of God. But people are really hungry, and we praise him for what he's doing.
Andy Miller III: So then that's a little different, maybe, than a a seminary. But it's tell me, like, what what is it that you're covering in those legal pieces? Yeah. So you go into a place. And this is you're giving them resources that they can use right. And they are folks that every once in a while somebody might not be a believer. It does get saved. But the the audience or the the participants
Joy Griffin: are those that are already believers are actually leaders of some sort. Maybe they're pastoring. Maybe they're leading the youth or the women or the men's ministry. That could be business people that are active and so we teach just bottom line 8 core values. Now, there's a lot of bones, and there's a lot of meat on these bones. But but the 8 core values are intimacy with the Lord.
Joy Griffin: then having a passion for the harvest.
Joy Griffin: being a visionary leader, and under each of these there are a lot of sessions like, for example, visionary leadership is getting God's will for your life, then how to how to set goals for that, and then how to mobilize others, to help you with that vision, and then how to overcome obstacles cause the devil's gonna always throw those fiery darts. But anyway, that's visionary leadership being culturally relevant and evangelism.
Joy Griffin: I am so thankful for what I learned from Jt. Siemens and other missions professors about about being relevant to those that you're getting to go into another culture multiplication. Another
Joy Griffin: thing that I learned from out cabbage and many other props, and that is discipleship and coaching and mentoring having our family priority and 2 more stewardship of our time, our our resources, and our spiritual gifts. And then the last kind of goes back to intimacy is integrity and living a holy life. So those are the 8 core values and that are just we try to flesh out in a conference.
Andy Miller III: And how long does that take to do that. It's it's an intensive week.
Joy Griffin: Okay, that we try. You know, that's that's the goal. And and it's and it's because we do have a lot of practical time, prayer time in between. You know many sessions there. So people come from wherever in their country to a central location and and then then take back the material to their folks in their own mother time.
Andy Miller III: Gotcha.
Andy Miller III: So this is you've continued to serve, you know, for a while, and maybe until recently in the United Methodist Church. You're probably like ordained through United Methodist Church. But even to have a significant influence with people outside of the United States who are part of the same United Methodist Church. So
Andy Miller III: maybe, could you tell us a little bit from your perspective, like what's happened? What's been happening, IE. Even though you, you might assume that my audience knows about that. They might not like what's being picture what's happening at this church, and maybe some of your friends and the people you've served.
Joy Griffin: Yes, I'm very happy to share because, you know, as a little girl, I mean, I didn't know when, when all the the the United
Joy Griffin: Brethren Church and and the Methodist denominations went together in in 1,968, and and of course, even when, remember, when I was in seminary, you know that that seminary that I went to, whether you have the atheist professor was a United Methodist seminary, and is so. People's apportionments are going to pay that professor. Of course, even at the time I don't think my brain really comprehended as much as but then, unfortunately,
Joy Griffin: The United Methodist Church, especially in the United States, not as much in other countries, not in the Philippines, as much in the African countries, or even Russia, but in in the Us. Has has kind of gone along with the culture of the United States, and has become very progressive and liberal. And so the the of course, every 4 years the big world gathering happens of of delegates from all over the world in the United Methodist world
Joy Griffin: there is a discipline, like all different denominations, have some kind of a Constitution, or by laws, you know. So the discipline of the united methods churches, the word that's that you might hear thrown out a lot, and that really a lot of it quotes the Word of God saying, this is what we believe about about creation, about God, about sin, about Jesus, about salvation, about human sexuality. Many.
Joy Griffin: That marriage is between one man and one woman only, biblically. That's what's supposed to happen. That's what the discipline says. But what has been happening for a lot of years is disobedience to that discipline, but also no accountability. And so I mean very little. I mean literally so. So. The hierarchy is that a bishop is is then underneath. The Bishop has district superintendents, and then they are local pastors. So what, unfortunately has happened is again disobedience, and so that that the big presenting issue
Joy Griffin: that the world kinda looks out of the news media grabs onto is human sexuality saying that? That that you do not want someone to be ordained, and or to be a bishop, or to be married. A same-sex kind of marriage? That is, yes, that is an issue. But the real bottom line of of the whole division between the United Methodist Church and those that are being called traditionalist or conservative, is the authority of the Word of God.
Andy Miller III: the supremacy of the Word and the lordship of Jesus. And of course, again, the media wants to say, Oh, it's about 6, but it isn't. It's about everything we believe about the the word, the Ver, the creation, virgin birth, resurrection, death. Yeah. Jesus. Anyway, I'm sorry. Ask me a question. So your friends in globally outside the United States have had a role to play in this right? And
Joy Griffin: I'm getting on a plane next trial a week from today? And going to meet with them. Actually, about this very thing. Yeah, the Africans actually have more votes. After the year 2,016. For the first time in history the African Church is growing, and our Church in United States is declining.
Joy Griffin: And so, for the first time in history in 2,016, Africa had more votes, and U.S.A. Had less votes, and Africans are culturally very traditional, as the word people are using are conservative. They believe the Bible.
Joy Griffin: Yeah. And so there's big dissension is very contentious, because, of course, the the unfortunately, the United Methodist in the U.S.A. Would love for the Africans to go away to be totally separate, so it could just be the United States instead of the rest of the world. But Jesus, said, Wesley said, The world is my parents. But Jesus said that he came for the whole world to seek and save the lost, and God love the whole world. So much
Joy Griffin: so. The Africans have been very as well as Filipinos and Russians, and I'm saying just those. There are other
Joy Griffin: countries also, but those have the most delegates that come together every 4 years. So so they're they're now, unfortunately. But actually, it's it's a good thing. Now, the new Global Methodist church has been launched and has been formed, and the huge majority of Conservatives all over the world are joining the global Methodist, which is why you have a lot more students, she said, at Wbs this year that are coming in, and we praise God for that because it's a new day. It's a new beginning. There. There are people that are choosing to congregations that are choosing to stay United
Joy Griffin: Methodist. But the sad reality, if if any of your listeners here are United Methodist, and this happens to be new for them. They need to be informed and try to educate themselves and and seek out you and others, me anybody to help them to understand, because the church is just going more and more progressive. It's it's it's just a very sad reality today.
Andy Miller III: right in in in aisle International Leadership Institute. Ili. Sorry you've had a I mean, it's not necessarily, is it connected to the United Methodist Church or method. But it just happens to be. You've also been in these rooms, I mean, I've just noticed, Joy, that as I've seen various committees formed, you or Wes are on there.
Joy Griffin: And so so I need to take. This is just Jesus, because it's just a miracle. We both are Methodist background. But the Ministry I international is in or denominational. It's not denominational because overseas there aren't a lot of United Methodist certain Methodist period there are. But just. There's all denominations, but
Joy Griffin: because of our relationship and our ministry that had already been begun in in places where there are United Methodist in the Congo, in Sierra Leone, places that have a lot of United Methodist delegates to the big Worldwide Conference. Yes, we we've been we're honored to be a part of that. I think that there were some people that thought, well, you know, maybe you know a lot more Methodist than
Joy Griffin: any of us do. But it's just because most other folks in the States, and and I'm usually there. So it's good.
Andy Miller III: Yes, yeah. So what I mean, who would have thought that the desire that in the calling it got put in your life as a girl, you know, making its way through understanding these new I mean, you had forgive me for being so blunt with this. But you had your experience with
Andy Miller III: Liberal Methodism and and understood and like. And I've been in those environments where it's like, we're often like you. And it's not just Methodism. It's just a theological education as a whole. You know, there are times where you really want. Wonder if people are Christian, you know we we, for instance. And I'm I'm not saying that because of I'm saying that, based upon the words that they say, you know, like Jesus did not rise from the dead. I don't believe that it's like, okay, well, let's
Andy Miller III: let's talk interestingly. You know, as we've started at at Wbs this
Andy Miller III: track for global Methodist church pastors. It's amazing. Most of the course of study courses have been offered at those type of institutions that don't affirm the inerrancy of Scripture, or the authority of Scripture. I mean, people don't like the ordinary. So what ends up happening is
Andy Miller III: at just the very first class people have been writing us letters coming to us, saying.
Andy Miller III: I've never said prayer at the beginning of a right class.
Andy Miller III: Know that I could. I didn't know. I help me help me know how to even understand what's going. And the I'm amazed at the hunger that people have
Andy Miller III: right. We're coming into the course study classes. So it's really you're familiar with it. I mean, this is kind of like part of your world. So I'm amazed how God put you in this place, but I am so thankful for you and other profs there that have the opportunity to to help fill that hunger. I mean to explain to them. They don't know, you know. I let this part out
Joy Griffin: quite a while a few minutes ago, just because of time. But but when I took my back, this is backing up when I'm a teenager, and I took my Bible open to the little, remember the student pastors in my little church that said, Look.
Joy Griffin: life is not like Jesus, you know. Here's what Jesus says, so can you help me? And this is what they said. I mean, this is all they knew. They patted me on the back and said, Oh, joy! You are the best little girl we know.
Joy Griffin: This is just an emotional moment, and you will feel different tomorrow. So I so so now I understand why they said that. But you know, at the time I'm thinking they're supposed to be spiritual authority. And Andy, when I started to that seminary
Joy Griffin: I had never heard profanity like I heard from the pulpit the pulpit of the chapel of that Seminary unbull, just unbelievable to
Joy Griffin: me, but also fellow students who would say, Well, Joy, we're when I was saying I'm hungry for something more, and they said, Well, we are just like you. We stand in our pulpits on Sunday, and we preach about peace. But we just believe, because we're taught that you just have to wait until you die to get peace.
Joy Griffin: Yeah, that's why the people coming to you, Andy, are hungry now that's what they've been taught. They they're they don't know different, but they're thrilled that they can be be filled up with the world. So I didn't mean to add all that. It's just a sad reality. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Andy Miller III: And you're in this place where you have a different seat. And you understand the global church
Andy Miller III: better than most in in light. And like, I'm thinking, like the big P. Where where are things going? What do you think will happen with these Methodist churches in Africa, the Philippines in Russia, former Communist states. Well, II believe that they are going to, and are already in some ways leading the way for us in the United States. And of course we'll be we'll be connected.
Joy Griffin: I could do this again is sort of a technical thing but for your listeners. If if you're interested for it, it it it all has to do with. Remember that discipline that I told you about, and so, unfortunately for anybody outside the United States churches outside. At this point
Joy Griffin: they they have not been given the opportunity, through the discipline to be able to disaffiliate until 2,024 next year will be that next 4 year worldwide gathering.
Joy Griffin: and so not all actually but some are waiting until then, purely because they don't. They don't have the option to to disaffiliate yet until then, but actually just in the news. And I'm looking forward to this because I'm going to be in Kenya a week from tonight or tomorrow.
Joy Griffin: Just this week the news came out that that their annual conference met, and there were 71 delegates or people churches represented, and I could say it wrong, but I think it was 65 literally walked out and said, we're disaffiliating now.
Joy Griffin: It means they won't have any money. They have no connection with outside, you know that they won't receive any kind of compensation at all. But they they're saying we cannot go against God's word and God's Word. Yes, yes.
Joy Griffin: and so that's gonna be very interesting to to see. And the Bishop was standing right there, and I know I actually know who he is. But it'll it'll be interesting. So that's happening like, for example, even last year, Bulgaria. The entire annual conference. Bulgaria just disaffiliated themselves. They just said, we cannot disobey God's word. So we are now just gonna form a new, you know. Entity. A new Methodist work. So that's that's happening in many countries around the globe.
Joy Griffin: Wow! Oh, interesting! I'm so proud, little Estonia. Little Estonia is a small country, but Estonia voted to disaffiliate at their annual conference just a few short weeks ago, and that was against what the Bishop, of course, really wanted them to do, because that was an institutionalist kind of person, but but that bishop was actually very gracious to them.
Joy Griffin: And in our country, in the Us. Some bishops have been gracious. Unfortunately, I'm living in a in a in a a conference in North Georgia, where the Bishop has has not been they. They first put put on a pause and said, You're not allowed to vote at all. And then there was a a lawsuit, a civil lawsuit, and and the judge
Joy Griffin: who was not Methodist or not. I don't even know if he's Christian. But the judge said, you can't do that. That's against the the rules. You've got to let the rules. So that is happening now. So in some. And and it's also at a at a heavy cost. But people are willing to pay the price physically, like literally money financial cost, to to try to be able to to get out and and to keep the property. This one other thing I didn't say is
Joy Griffin: in the United Methodist Church. There is a trust clause. I don't know why or when from forever ago. But but that means the conference owns the building, the land, everything in it, the hymnals, the piano, everything. It's not long owned by the church people. So so the new global Methodist church allows for people to own their own property building all those things. So that's just
Joy Griffin: another difference.
Andy Miller III: Yeah, that's really helpful. It's good to hear from a different perspective. Enjoy you kind of bring bring it from your seat. Well, there's so much more we could say, but what's what's your hope in you? You, you and I are in come from similar positions like we're we have some connections to Francis Asbury side Indian Springs, Wbs. Asbury institutions. What's your hope for?
Joy Griffin: this next moment of and I mean this in the not a negative way. Most of the time the words used negatively, tribe
Joy Griffin: Andy, can you try again? It's like suddenly, here we are at the end, and it's frozen. Oh, great! I couldn't hear the rest of your question, and I hope that you can hear me.
Andy Miller III: Can you hear me now? Can you hear me?
Andy Miller III: Okay, let me try to switch
Andy Miller III: again here
Andy Miller III: if you could. Okay.
Andy Miller III: alright. So I'm talking to the guy who helps us, Jeff. I'll get this going here and 2 1.
Andy Miller III: Well, I will, joy. I always ask. There's so much more we could talk about. And I'm interested to hear your product, and probably need to have you on again. But I always asked a question about being there being more to the story of somebody more than you normally get to share. If you're ever on any other podcast like, we talk about Methodist things. We talk about your testimony. We hear a little about you. But is there something. There's like a hobby that you have, or something that would give us an idea of
Andy Miller III: more, the more to the story for joy. Griffin.
joy : Oh,
joy : Oh, yeah, there's lots trying to think
joy : you know II love I love. I like to run. I love nature.
joy : I love creation. It's it's astonishing to me, and and I always kind of think in my brain. I wonder if I appreciate it more because I couldn't experience it for a while in my life. I don't know but it but it's glorious to me, and it brings me closer to the Lord. So, hiking, camping, outdoorsy things. Swimming. Yeah, II just I love, and of course I'll enjoy town with our children and
Andy Miller III: And France. I'm bigger relationship.
joy : Oh, they're so precious! Hannah and Caleb, they're such blessings. Hannah is an artist like a real artist, and it's the the gift is from God. It's not from her daddy or me. There's no inheritance. She's doing well. And then our son Caleb is actually at the University of Tennessee. He went to Asbury the school, but he is at the University of Tennessee, and he does video editing for their athletic department and producing so they're both
joy : doing well. There were the greatest little missionaries growing up. I home schooled them as they grew up. So they did get to see a lot of the world and and appreciate knowing who Jesus is. But then, having a a a love for those that don't yet so I'm so grateful for them.
Andy Miller III: That's great. Well, Joy, thank you so much for coming on. It means a lot to me for you to take some time with us, and thankful for the work God's lead you need to do through International Leadership Institute, but also in these like really kind of distinct places where we get to share.
joy : I'm so thankful the Lord lets us be fa together. Indian Springs. Just Jesus. So thank you. Thank you for you. I'm so grateful that for the time together, thank you.