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Conversations about the media economy, and how to think clearly when things get messy.
This is Puzzle, Problem, Mess, conversations about the media economy and how to think clearly when things get messy. The creator economy once sat a bit off to the side of the media industry. But in 2026, it has emerged as an active hunting ground for media companies, agencies, and investors looking for quicker paths to growth, new audiences, and new forms of monetization. In just the past few months, we've seen activity across almost every part of the creator economy. Agencies buying creator infrastructure, investors taking stakes in creator platforms, media buyers acquiring creator led communities, and of note, the recent news that CAA is working with TPG backed integrated media company on a 250,000,000 US dollar creator economy holding company.
Dan Fahy:For established media companies, the creator economy is now a key source of operating model speed. It's faster access to audiences, a testing ground for IP, access to personalities with direct relationships, and a test bed for new commercial models. So in this episode, I speak with Chris Erwin, founder and CEO of Rockwater, a US based M and A and strategy advisory firm focused on the creator economy, social media, audio and agency markets. Chris and I discuss the state of the creator market from a media perspective, who's buying, why they're buying, what a good creator economy acquisition actually looks like, and how legacy media companies buying creator economy assets may in fact be buying their way into a new operating model. Here's Chris.
Dan Fahy:Chris, welcome to the podcast.
Chris Erwin:Well, great to be here, Dan.
Dan Fahy:You're covering the credit economy from a number of angles on the buy side and sell side, and you have been for a number of years. I'm interested in your headlines or characterizations of the state of deal making in the creator economy.
Chris Erwin:Yeah. So we wrote about this when we did our 2026 predictions report, where we believe that we are really entering the sophomore year of the creator economy growth cycle. I think what we saw was a lot of excitement into 'twenty one, a lot of capital and buyers entering the mix, then a pullback from 'twenty two to 'twenty four, and then a resurgence in 'twenty five. And it feels like now in 'twenty six, the industry is maturing and industrializing. So we're having more capital and more different buyer groups start to enter the mix.
Chris Erwin:We're seeing them have a better, more sophisticated understanding of what KPIs they want and what is their buy box that will inform how deals are going to get done and what they want to lead into. Yeah, we see capital coming from both traditional entertainment publishers and studios, but also digital agencies, SaaS businesses, and even AI companies. But we see that there's really starting to be some activity that's concentrating in three main zones. It's obviously a lot more, but we see a lot in one, talent representation, two, digital ad agencies, and three, social publishers. And what's been exciting to see, particularly as an advisor is, I think previously there was a lot of companies that were tire kicking, trying to figure out their thesis in the space.
Chris Erwin:And now we're actually seeing the companies that have developed a thesis, want to do deals and are getting all the way to the bid stage or actually consummating transactions versus just, hey, we're trying to figure out what we want to do. So I think, to be clear, there are so many companies that are still figuring out their thesis as well.
Dan Fahy:This uptick in activity has also illustrated that the story of legacy media moving into the creator economy is not a uniform one. Different media companies are entering from different starting points, and they're trying to solve different problems. A publisher looking for audience scale and ad monetization is not thinking in quite the same way as a studio trying to build new IP around creator talent or an agency trying to reposition itself around creator led brand marketing. Here's Chris on who's buying and what each type of buyer is looking for. How are you seeing traditional media companies lean into this space?
Dan Fahy:And is there a consistency to their activity and the problems they're trying to solve?
Chris Erwin:Yeah, I was thinking about this before this chat, and I would say that there's three main buyer archetypes coming from traditional media. So I'd say there's publishers like People Inc. And Future PLC. What they're really buying is audience access and ad capabilities. I think another bucket of traditional entertainment is large studios like Fox.
Chris Erwin:And they're solving problems of how do you work with modern talent and how do you also incubate IP with different unit economics. And then third is ad agencies. I think of WPP or Puzzle Assist. They're really thinking about creator marketing infrastructure. How do you have modern agency and service capabilities to service, call it the modern brand marker versus just selling a bunch of linear TV spots?
Dan Fahy:For media companies buying into the creator economy, there seldom seems to be just one way in. It's less like acquiring a new channel, and it's more like assembling a new operating structure that might include talent relationships, direct to consumer capabilities, creator led IP development, vertical storytelling, audio incubation, live experiences or brand partnerships and distribution. And for me, Fox is an excellent case study for this multi front approach, if you like. Across Fox Corporation, Fox Advertising, and Fox Entertainment, the companies made a series of connected creator and creator adjacent moves, buying Red Seat Ventures, investing in The Lighthouse, backing Holy Water, acquiring Meet Cute, creating Fox Creator Studios, and taking an equity stake in Chain, the experiential food business cofounded by BJ Novak. The Chain deal is interesting because although it's not strictly a creator acquisition, it shows how Fox is trying to connect content, talent, fan experience, brand sponsorship, and IP extension.
Dan Fahy:Through Studio Ramsey Global, the partnership envisages food collaborations across live events, digital storytelling, sponsorship, Fox IP integrations, and potentially vertical video through Holy Water. There's a lot more to Fox's activities than just opportunistic deal making. I'll link to these deals in the show notes, but let's get back to Chris. I guess with those archetypes, there's no one purchase that's going to make an inroad, a material inroad for them. It seems like there are a number of purchases that are required.
Chris Erwin:Yeah, I think that they have a thesis. They are doing deals. They're testing it out, but they're going to learn as they go. So I think of a deal that we advised on. So we advised them the sale of FeedFeed, a social food publisher and Creator Network that sold to People Inc.
Chris Erwin:Last year. So People Inc. With their legacy print magazine print publisher have been around for over one hundred years. And they have a massive portfolio of lifestyle, food, and entertainment brands. But how do you reach the modern consumer?
Chris Erwin:It's not just print magazines, not just call it Web 2.0, but on social video and social media platforms. And how do you access these modern networks of creators, which is an incredible way to license UGC content to populate those platforms. And then what are the new capabilities and services that you can offer your brand marketer clients? And so in Buying FeedFee, they're able to get team capabilities, client relationships, and access to a creator network to solve all those problems. Another example was Future PLC buying Shieloife, Gen Z publisher in The UK that also came with a sister influencer marketing agency as well.
Chris Erwin:That's I would say that's the publisher bucket. Let's continue down to the other two. Think about Fox. I mean, this is a company that's been on a they've been on quite a deal spree, I think, over the last eighteen months. I gave them a ton of credit because essentially Fox sold their studio business at the peak.
Chris Erwin:They are flushed with cash and they realize that they want to evolve their business and they're doing it really quickly and they're taking a lot of bets. So how do you work with modern talent? Red Seat Ventures. So they work with traditional talent personalities and modern creators to build direct to consumer social media businesses and monetize them. Thinking about incubating IP, they launched the Fox Creator Network, working with both YouTubers and traditional talent personalities to build new IP.
Chris Erwin:And they also bought, call it, an audio drama and audio IP business in EQ. But then they invested in a volley water, a micro drama platform, another incredible place to incubate IP, where a lot more the modern consumers spend time. So it's fun to watch them because they're doing deals and they're doing smart ones and they're doing them quickly. And then that third bucket is agencies. So traditional media, like look at Puzzle, they bought what I think like four or five different digital ad agencies in the last two years.
Chris Erwin:Captivate, Influential, BR Media Group and more. And so they are really investing in creator marketing infrastructure to service their marketer clients. So they have access to these massive, probably now millions of creators. They have tons of data about what campaigns work versus not. And they're buying teams and systems to service their brand marketer clients at scale.
Chris Erwin:So those are the three buyer archetypes and some of the deals that they're doing to modernize their business.
Dan Fahy:What I find really interesting about Fox is not just the number of moves, but the spread of Fox's deals and the way they seem to fortify one another. And Fox is a very clear example of a wider pattern emerging across creator economy m and a in media, which is that some media companies are doing more than buying businesses in the traditional sense, revenues, cash flows, formats, and IP. More than that, they're breathing new life into their operating model. And in many cases, they're buying speed, speed to talent, speed to culture, speed to audience, to new formats, and to new commercial models. Back to Chris on what he thinks is really being acquired in these deals and where the risk sits when legacy buyers try to integrate create a native businesses.
Dan Fahy:You've written, I think, quite recently around that what's being bought in many of these cases when you boil it down is authenticity and access to authenticity. You've written that the sort of buyer target cultural fit is where the integration risk is.
Chris Erwin:Yeah. So just to frame what these companies are actually buying, right? In a more mature in more mature industries, can say they're buying cash flows, they're buying revenue. But really in this evolving landscape, they're buying things that are different, right? That's part of the deal, but they're buying time.
Chris Erwin:So they're accelerating their entrance into this new market. So they're buying real capabilities, high quality teams that understand this market. They're buying client relationships and really ways to move faster. Because otherwise, it's try and build these capabilities organically. And you're doing that with a team that just has different muscles and different pedigree that doesn't come from this space.
Chris Erwin:That's just going to take a lot of time. Could say like three to five years. But if you buy it right, you can get a deal done in six months and you are in market faster than your peers figuring it out. So I'd say that's the real product of what's being bought here. And maybe what you're referencing is the devil's in the details.
Chris Erwin:I think protecting the editorial coverage. I think that's true for any media business. It's not just digital. It's not just social. But we just wrote about, I think it's the overlap that just bought some of Mark Goldberg's YouTube channels.
Chris Erwin:And I think that's key. What's cool about that one? That's a creator business buying another creative business. So that's where you actually talk about timeline between the buyer and the seller. I think they can really align quickly on how do you grow this business?
Chris Erwin:What's the right way to service it? How do you bring new growth ideas to the table and move really quickly? They're gonna be able to do that faster than call like a traditional media business buying a social business for the first time. But to your point, I think that those businesses, those YouTube channels between buyer and seller, it's a lot of fan reaction content, community content. And that's preserving that sensibility is really key.
Chris Erwin:And I think right now, we all just have to watch and observe over the next six twelve months if they can maintain that editorial sensibility. I think they can grow those businesses really well. But if they start to play with that, that's where there could be challenges.
Dan Fahy:All of this brings us to the buyer's approach. If media companies are buying time, access, capability, and a kind of cultural fluency, then the way they go about buying really matters. Move too slowly and the market runs away from you. Move too hastily and you might overpay for something shiny but it's not durable. And after the deal closes, if you impose too much of your company's process, you might snuff out the flame of the very thing you acquired.
Dan Fahy:But if you're too hands off, the business fundamentals may start to slide. I asked Chris what good acquirers do differently and what kind of buyer behavior tends to lead to better outcomes. Just turning to the buy side a bit here, you're profiling terrifically all the activity going on and you're really building a profile of different types of buyers and what buyers do with the companies they acquire. Is there anything you can say around what sort of buyer behavior or buyer posture is likely to lead to good outcomes versus buyer posture or buyer activity that probably doesn't get the best value out of their acquisitions?
Chris Erwin:Yeah. So here's the important things to keep in mind for a buyer when looking at these types of deals and these types of assets is one, you're still buying a business. So focus on fundamentals. If you're trying to come up with these like really esoteric KPIs, it's just you got to look at revenue profit margins defensibility, right? Those things still matter.
Chris Erwin:They're part of the conversation. I think two is having a real thesis in the space. So if you don't have a point of view of what your goal is and what you're trying to solve for, and you can lay out a clear vision to a seller, then it's gonna be one, it's gonna be hard to align and hard to get bought in on the sales call it on the acquisition process and stand out from the other buyers. And if you do the deal and you don't have an aligned vision, it's not gonna be a good place to be. And then I think on I think lastly is being flexible and open minded that these deals, I started my career in Wall Street, very traditional formal processes, two step M and A auctions, buyer never talks to seller direct without the banker present.
Chris Erwin:Deal making in the modern creator space is a lot more informal. It's faster buyers and sellers talk more. But all that being said, I think you still I think the space needs to add a bit more rigor, which is what we bring to the next. So yeah, I think like lastly for buyers like what's going to win fortune favors the bull. If you're just going to be tired kicking do and doing diligence research for many years, like get it.
Chris Erwin:You want to be informed and then you want to have a calculated approach. But there's companies that are doing deals right now. Like Fox, like the publishers we talked about, like People Link, they're making bets. They're being capital smart, but they're being forward thinking. And so there's a point where it's like, gotta stop tire kicking, start making moves.
Dan Fahy:Finally, I ask Chris the question I often ask guests on this podcast. In a media market this messy, what advice would he give to people trying to build a career inside it? Great, Chris. You've traversed big media early on in your career at Big Frame, which was acquired by Awesomeness and DreamWorks. And then some years later, Awesomeness went on to find a home at Paramount Global.
Dan Fahy:What would your advice be for people making their careers in media today?
Chris Erwin:Yeah, I think I think it's find a leadership team that you believe in. I think some of the best things that have happened to me early in my career is finding leadership and mentors that I believe could build a great business, that cared about the team, that cared about me, that cared about my learning. And that has transformed my potential. And I wouldn't be here today were it not for that. I think a second thing is, it's very easy to tell people follow your heart, go and do what you love.
Chris Erwin:I think part of that is true, where if you can go and find a media brand that you really align with or a business that you like, try and get involved. But I would actually recommend that people really focus on how do you up level your skills of what you're good at. Don't try and go from bad to good. If you're good at something, even if it's not your first passion, how can you become great at it? Because I think there's incredible fulfillment and incredible power in going from good to great.
Chris Erwin:And that creates a lot of opportunities, and it may surprise you. That's my recommendation.
Dan Fahy:Chris Erwin, thank you very much for your time and insight on the call this morning.
Chris Erwin:Welcome, Dan. This was a fun one.
Dan Fahy:That was Chris Erwin. Thanks for listening. I'm Dan Fay. Original music by Lee Roseveer, Mystery Mammal, and SoCal. And if you like this episode, please do share this with a friend or colleague.