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Racquet Fuel provides insights into the best practices and innovations of racquets industry business leaders.
Co-hosts Kim Bastable, Director of Professional Tennis Management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, Senior Director Racquet Sports Development at the USTA National Campus, help racquets leaders in your ability to grow the game and to improve the experiences you offer to both your staff and players by talking to industry leaders, including USTA executives, authors and innovators. If you are on a career path in racquet sports or already a racquets business leader and you want to stay up to date on ideas and innovations in racquets industry business and leadership, this podcast is for you.
Presented by the Athlete+ Podcast Network at the University of Florida Institute for Coaching Excellence.
Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger Racquet's leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former all American tennis player and now the director of professional rackets management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, the USTA senior director of racket sports development. Today on Racquet Fuel, a follow-up with Tim Elmore, author of 35 books, sought after speaker, and founder of the nonprofit Growing Leaders. Tim has some inspirational ideas about how we can learn from and get the best from Gen Z. Here are Kim and Simon.
Kim Bastable:Welcome to Racquet Fuel. I'm Kim Bastable, and Simon and I could not be happier. We have a return from Tim Elmore, an author we respect so highly because of his studies around the generations. He has a new book out. It's just a a fab something that we just we live every day, as we said.
Kim Bastable:It's the future begins with z, nine strategies to lead generation z's as they disrupt the workplace. And I think that's the reality we know, Simon. We can't avoid this. We we have these guys. They're young guys and girls.
Kim Bastable:They're young. We need them. We need to figure it out.
Tim Elmore:Yeah. Yeah. No doubt.
Simon Gale:Yeah. And I love that we're we're circling back on this again. The first episode got a lot of great feedback, and I'm excited because this is so real. And we in our industry, the tennis industry, we live it every day, but I know it's across all organizations. So I think there's a lot of practical application in your book that is very helpful versus just theory, and I'm excited to talk about that today.
Tim Elmore:I am too. I am too.
Kim Bastable:Thanks, Tim, for being here. I mean, Tim is just he's such a renowned leader and worked with John Maxwell for years. Multiple books, so I think it's, what, 35. And I really like his habitudes, which was the first way I found out about you, which was, one of your early publications, I believe, wasn't it, Tim?
Tim Elmore:Yeah. I was probably halfway through to 40 books there, but it was the conversation starter with the next generation that so many coaches or teachers or employers for that matter just needed because we had to have some conversations that were hard to have, and we needed a new way to say it. And so I thought an image, a metaphor, that's what we need to do. So that's what led to those those habitudes. Yeah.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. Habitudes is a great one. So, yeah, for our listeners, there's the look up Tim Elmore. You'll find a multitude of resources. So we we are very thankful.
Kim Bastable:So let's get down to this. We know this is not going to be our shortest episode purposefully. We we love we loved him, and we wanna pick his brain. But what we need to do is let's get the baseline again. Let's go back.
Kim Bastable:Like, who is Gen Z? How old are they? How would you describe them? And maybe, you know, for timeliness, why is this book special? What what are we gonna learn here differently?
Tim Elmore:Yeah. Good good question. So for those that aren't studying the generations like like I am, generation z represents the population of people that are pretty much grown up in the twenty first century, not the twentieth century. So the millennials, remember, we studied them for years, and now they're assistant coaches. They're or they're head coaches now.
Tim Elmore:But the Gen Z would be those young adults, really 20, 20 all the way down to to young people still in school that really have grown up in a different world. So let me start with some basics. Number one, you're absolutely right. They represent the future. We must remind ourselves all the time whether we're frustrated or fascinated with them, they represent the future.
Tim Elmore:Here's here's the way I just said it yesterday to a bunch of employers. I say, we don't know much about the future, but we know one thing. Gen z's gonna be there. So we've got to get this right. And then number two, every coach knows this, but we forget it.
Tim Elmore:You've got to begin with belief, not irritation, not frustration, not, you know, furious, but curious. So if if you can begin with belief, you're always gonna do better with inner chain. By the way, that's true with your family. That's true with your with your court. So so, anyway, onto the real big question you just asked, Kim.
Tim Elmore:You just asked. The big difference for Gen Z, they come in with two big audacious realities, a high sense of agency and a high sense of anxiety. Now let me explain. This agency is kind of an educational term. When a teacher says a student has a high sense of agency, that means they have a high sense of self sufficiency, empowerment.
Tim Elmore:They they have a phone in their hand, and they think they know, you know, and oftentimes they do know. Kids are asking Google, Siri, and Alexa questions they used to ask mom and dad. So high sense of agency to the point that it might look like cockiness on a court or or, you know, I don't know, pride or arrogance or whatever. But at the same time, this oxymoron is they have a high sense of anxiety. So the first point says, I don't need your help.
Tim Elmore:The second point says, I desperately need your help. I'm anxious. We have more reports about anxiety disorders and panic attacks and depression. There was just a story yesterday about an NFL player for the Dallas Cowboys that committed suicide, and he it just scored a touch on. He was the happiest he could be, and yet here was this something going on inside of him.
Tim Elmore:I don't think it was his surroundings. I think it was something percolating inside of him. So coaches are gonna have to remember, I'm gonna expect a little bit of spirit of arrogance, maybe, but I'm also gonna sense they need my arm around the shoulder right now, and they're gonna need some help maybe on some non tennis or whatever skill sets that we used to not need. So I'll stop there for now.
Simon Gale:Well, my daughter's 25, 26, so I I live this daily, Tim. It's fascinating to me. I go back to your books all the time to some I I need I need a reset. I I I fully appreciate this. When I look at, say, the campus and most of our tennis industry, we've got early twenties, even teenagers who who get started in coaching all the way up to, and I told you a little earlier, I've got a pro who's in his early seventies.
Simon Gale:So we truly represent all generations. But in your expert opinion, what are the skills that stand out that a member of Gen Z might not bring to the workplace that really frustrates the boomers or the older generation that may be managing or working alongside?
Tim Elmore:I'm laughing because this is an hour long question that you're gonna give me two or three minutes. Well, you know what? Something I mentioned in the book that might be a handle for listeners right now, I have spotted in generation z what I call the Peter Pan paradox. The Peter Pan paradox. Now I've been talking about the Peter Pan syndrome for years and years and years, but here's the paradox.
Tim Elmore:If anybody knows anything about the story of Peter Pan, that Disney movie and the stage play in the book, Peter Pan, if you remember, was this winsome character that could fly through the air, you know, we don't know how he did that, Flies into London, sprinkles pixie dust everywhere, and magical things happen. The other side of the coin was Peter Pan wanted to live in Neverland, a place where boys never have to grow up. When I say the the age of authority is going down, what I mean is they're coming out in knowing some things that I, as an older generation person, don't know. They've got intuition on AI and smart technology. They seem to know where tomorrow's customer's going, and they just have an eye on the future.
Tim Elmore:They have a foresight on the future I do not have. Maybe I had it forty years ago. I don't have it now. They do. So in one sense, they have authority without a title or a badge or a position.
Tim Elmore:But coupled with that, you've got this age of maturity going up where I have I think I've told you before, I've lost count of the number of coaches that have said to me 26 is the new 18, what we once expected at 18. Let's go. You're you're a man now. Let's exercise initiative and responsibility. It's now happening later.
Tim Elmore:It's not not happening maybe, but it's just happening later in life. And when I do focus groups with Gen Zers, they go, yeah. That's true. They realize it. It's just happening later.
Tim Elmore:So you can imagine what this might feel like to an older staff person that would go, what what's up with this? So there's a difference. But let me tell a story that might be encouraging. I met Colin Webb years ago when he was in high school. Colin was a very smart student.
Tim Elmore:In fact, so smart that he got an invitation to go to MIT after his high school graduation, so he's doing okay. When he graduates from MIT, you can imagine he has a number of job offers. Well, Colin decided to move to Detroit, Michigan to work for one of the big three, General Motors. So he takes his job at GM, and very quickly, he's put in the smart car division. Very quickly, he notices some improvements that GM can make.
Tim Elmore:So does this not sound like g like Gen Z? Oh, we can improve this here. So he starts making a list of all the things they can do better. We can do professional development better. We can do this system over here better.
Tim Elmore:He takes his ideas to his supervisor and it's very off putting to the supervisor. He's saying, I I hired you to just do the work. I don't need your your ideas right now. Well, Colin said, yes, sir, but he wasn't done yet. So in the audacity of a 20, he emails the CEO of General Motors, Mary Barra and he says, Mary, I've got some great ideas.
Tim Elmore:I thought you might like them. She gets back to him. She replies and says these are really good ideas. Let me take them to my executive team. So she takes him to her exec team.
Tim Elmore:They look them over and they go, you're right. These are really good ideas. But as they make their way down the organizational chart down to the middle manager again, they die on the vine. Once again, Colin is told, you need to just keep your head down, keep your nose to the grindstone, just do your work. Well, you might as well have told Colin to to leave.
Tim Elmore:So within the year, Colin quits. And I want you guys to know he's not a quitter. I respect this young man. He's not a quitter, but he quits because they don't have a place for him in his mind. So get this.
Tim Elmore:He's still in his twenties. He has started three companies. In fact, he just sold one of them for a lot of money. He's doing better than I am right now financially. But I'm thinking to myself as I think about this story, they did not have to lose him, but they had to make a way for him to both do his work, but to be be who he is.
Tim Elmore:Again, Colin is Peter Pan. He's got vision on some things that we don't have vision on. So I would say to any staff person, any coach, particularly anybody over 40 years old, we're gonna have to listen more than we've ever used to listen, but we may have to coach more than we ever used to coach. So getting back, Simon, to your question, they may not bring in interpersonal skills like maybe we used to see twenty five years ago. You know, people skills, able to look me in the eye and shake my hand and listen well and not be staring at the phone.
Tim Elmore:I know these sound like stereotypes, but I just with with I was just with the air force. And they said their airmen who are supposed to be repairing airplanes are looking at their phones and scrolling through social media. I'm going, what are you doing? So maybe maybe that that's where I leave you here. We're gonna have to listen more than we used to listen.
Tim Elmore:We're gonna have to coach more than we used to coach on some of those fundamental people skills.
Simon Gale:So I've heard you say a couple of times, earlier you said they represent the future. Right? That's a given. But you also said that they bring a vision, and they come armed with a lot of knowledge because of the resources at their fingertips with that spirit of arrogance, as you put it. So vision and and this this library of knowledge, even though they're not worldly from a life skills point of view and haven't lived a lot of life yet, but they bring something to the table.
Simon Gale:Is that what you would put in the top couple of things they bring to the table as well?
Tim Elmore:I think so. Yeah. So what I advise employers to do when and coaches will need to figure out where this fits into their worldview and where and and their life life team. I I think we need to give them a seat at the table knowing they don't bring a lot of job experience, but they might bring a lot of foresight. In other words, I think all new generations that enter the workplace kinda bring a little bit of, oh, this is the future of work.
Tim Elmore:So in one of my chapters in the book, I talk about what does Gen Z see in the future of employment? Well, let me give you two or three that were very, very interesting. They see a four day work week coming. Now we talk about six day work weeks and so forth and so on, but four day work week, I ask them. They're saying, I don't say that means less work.
Tim Elmore:I just wanna squeeze it into a short amount of time so I have more time for myself. There's that work life balance thing they they're requesting. So that would be one. Here's another one. For young employees, they would like pay at the end of the day.
Tim Elmore:But the reason for that is not they're greedy. They could be greedy, but it's more I'm not making ends meet very well. I'm barely paying the bills for my apartment right now, and I might need my paycheck at the end of the eight hours or whatever it was. They see more women in leadership, and I think that's gonna be true. More women are in college graduating right now than men, and that doesn't always translate to leadership.
Tim Elmore:But let's face it, they're gonna be highly educated women and maybe more guys going, man, I'm gonna learn a skill or a trade trade skill, you know, plumber, electrician. So I'm just saying, wow. That might be an ego check for a husband one day in the family. But I'm fascinated by what they see. Some things are not gonna happen, but many things represent the next ten years.
Simon Gale:Given that, how do you and I pick up on a couple of things there. How does the general manager, leader, director of Racquet Sports in our industry help bridge that gap? I'm hearing things about work week and daily pay and think about what's the practical application? What would be a couple of examples of how you integrate these things, especially in an industry that's very traditional and has not changed a lot in the last couple of decades or so, you say, Kim? I mean, we haven't evolved much.
Simon Gale:No. And I think we're we're we're behind on some other industries. So what are your thoughts on that?
Tim Elmore:Alright. Good question, by the way. I believe the best leaders today pay attention to being timely and timeless. I may have said that before. I don't remember, but here's what I mean by that.
Tim Elmore:We all understand the timeless stuff. Right? Every coach could tell I can tell you the timeless virtues and skill sets are gonna need discipline, initiative, punctuality, blah blah blah blah blah. We all get that. Don't lose those.
Tim Elmore:Those are always gonna be evergreen. But the timely thing is maybe where maybe perhaps a coach or a general manager needs to work. And the way I become the way I become timely is maybe I find one of those members of Gen z that I really respect. They're sharp at 25 or 23, and I meet with them one zero one, and I say, hey, listen. Let's do reverse mentoring here.
Tim Elmore:Let me pour into you some of the stuff I've learned over thirty five years, but would you let me know what do you see coming that I might not see? If they feel safe, they may open up and give you a lens on the future that you could really use. And then, of course, you eat the fish and spit out the bones. Maybe some of those things are knucklehead ideas, but maybe a lot of them are exactly what you're gonna need to stay ahead of the curve. So I would say that, Simon, maybe I get one of those members and say, Could I meet with you regularly?
Tim Elmore:And could you pour into me, not just vice versa?
Simon Gale:Which I don't think is a practice we don't live now, like effective leaders, but I feel like in general, and I hate talking in general, I can't talk on behalf of all leaders, but the idea that I don't want to listen to your ideas because you have a spirit of arrogance.
Tim Elmore:Yeah.
Simon Gale:I'm gonna wait till I respect you before I start to listen, but we need to think differently and and engage that, and and we might learn a few things that will surprise us by the sounds of things.
Tim Elmore:No. You're right. And this is just me. I'm just one guy, but I'm telling you, I've had to get past the apparent arrogance. It's not always arrogance.
Tim Elmore:I guess I think if I would have grown up with one of these smartphones the way they are today, I might have thought pretty highly of myself. I think I already know. But you know what it is? It's a difference between someone that says, let's say, I understand skydiving because I watched 17 YouTube videos on skydiving versus the guy that says, I've been skydiving seven. I'm well listen to the guy that's been skydiving.
Tim Elmore:So that's what we have to get through is maybe they just watched a YouTube video, but that's still not nothing. So you're right, Simon. If I can get past the apparent disrespect, and it may not be disrespect, the apparent cockiness, and it may not be cockiness, and still kinda get through those filters and still see the value. Now I've got I wish GM would have listened to Colin. Maybe they'd still have him to this day, and maybe he would help that division do better instead of creating his own workplace out there.
Tim Elmore:So but I need to add one more thing. This is this is another apparent contradiction, but the latest data I just heard, now fasten your seat belts, four out of five Gen Zers are bringing their parent with them to the job interview. That's almost shocking, if not shocking.
Simon Gale:Has that gone up since the last couple of years? It feels like it's higher than it was.
Tim Elmore:Yeah. It used to be about 25, about one out of four were bringing in mom and dad. And by the way, I don't think they're bringing mom and dad. I think mom and dad are joining them. They're in the car in the parking lot waiting for junior to get done, or especially mama is coming into the room where the hiring manager she's gonna help negotiate the compensation for junior.
Tim Elmore:And I'm going, oh my gosh. Do you realize you're you're emasculating that young man or that young woman from being the adult they need to be? But you see what I'm saying here, don't you? That's mom's fault. I don't think that's always the the 20 fault.
Tim Elmore:I I feel like we're we're changing our report card on what it means to be a good parent.
Kim Bastable:Wow. There's a lot that we've covered there. I mean, I think I'm back on the what you said maybe ten minutes ago, which is 26 is the new 18. I mean, that just summarizes that if you are dealing with someone who's 18, we understand that they're still learning and that they're developing. They need to be taught how to be in the workplace.
Kim Bastable:There's a lot of yeah. I think it what we would have a little a little conflict with would be maybe arrogance if they're 18.
Tim Elmore:Yes.
Kim Bastable:But now you're saying they're 26, so we believe they should bring something to the table. They're bringing arrogance, and yet you're saying they're bringing the maturity
Tim Elmore:Yeah.
Kim Bastable:Of maybe the development of of 18. That that just to me puts it in a little bit numeric terms. But in general, I would just wanna the whole idea that they brought up been brought up since 2000, they've had smartphones in their world. They lived through COVID. They lived through I guess they probably weren't even old enough to to deal with nine eleven.
Kim Bastable:That's probably not an issue for them. But there were I don't know. How did those things formulate these Yeah. Yeah. Delays?
Kim Bastable:Because, I mean, my parents lived through World War one. I mean, there's been hard things.
Tim Elmore:Yeah. No doubt. I think the difference today and I I'm I'm catching, Kim, the question you're asking. I think the difference is that while every generation needs grit, let's be honest. Today, we live in a world of speed and convenience.
Tim Elmore:Thank you, technology. Things are a little easier and a little quicker, so that's gonna diminish my my grit muscle. Right? Number two, I don't think we really understand what COVID did. That quarantine period, in some states, it was less than others, but in many, it was two to three years of delayed social maturation.
Tim Elmore:They weren't out mixing it up with others and learning conflict resolution and learning how to negotiate. They were behind a screen, and that's virtual. That word means a lot. It's not real. It's virtual.
Tim Elmore:So I'm not defending them. I'm explaining. I'm not excusing them. Yeah.
Kim Bastable:Is fair, which I I value that. I think we need to understand.
Tim Elmore:I do too. By the way, I don't know what it does to you, Kim. It increases my empathy. I still want to get to grit, but I need to start with empathy in order to get to grit. So I think all of these are factors, but here's another factor we don't think about enough in my opinion, cancel culture.
Tim Elmore:Now I wanna be very fair. Some things in our society need to be canceled. I mean, Harvey Weinstein needed to be canceled. Let's be honest. But there's many ways that cancel culture has taught and conditioned Gen Z to say, if we're facing hardship, remove the hardship.
Tim Elmore:Cancel it. And you and I both know the best way to get strong is not to cancel hardship. It's to learn to face hardship. Can I get an amen from the choir on that?
Kim Bastable:Yes. Yes. Yes.
Tim Elmore:So so if I'm conditioned as a 20 year old, let's say, to just cancel, cancel on social media, cancel, I'm removing the very thing that would make me stronger. Now is it fun? No. It's not fun. But most of the time, achievement isn't fun.
Tim Elmore:It's hard. Let So me tell you a quick story. I have a friend who's a hiring manager at a at a workplace, and she interviewed a young man. And in the interview, she asked this young man we'll we'll call him Owen for the sake of the story. She asked Owen, tell me a time when you faced a a hardship that you were very proud of yourself for how you handled it.
Tim Elmore:Well, Owen thought for a minute, and he told a story, and she was very pleased with his answer. So a week later, her boss, the HR chief, called Owen and said, we'd like to hire you and you would work for this lady that you interviewed with. His response was shocking. He said, are you kidding me? There's no way I'd go I'd work for that woman.
Tim Elmore:She triggered my PTSD when she asked me to recount that story. There's no way I'd work for her. I don't wanna be triggered by that job. And he said it wasn't a psychologically safe place to work. Now let's unpack that for just a minute.
Tim Elmore:First of all, telling a story. If that triggers PTSD, we need to have another conversation. I'm so sorry. We need to have another conversation. In fact, in just a minute, let's let's put a pin in that.
Tim Elmore:I wanna talk about PTSD in just a minute. But for him to say that triggered my PTSD, I know I would not work for her, that says to me, you're probably right. You probably shouldn't work for me. I don't know that you'd make it well in this workplace where you might be triggered every day by some hardship. So let's talk for a minute about PTSD.
Tim Elmore:We all know that term, don't we? It became popular over the last several years, post traumatic stress disorder. But did you know that people who face trauma mostly end up with PTG, not end up with PTSD? PTG stands for post traumatic growth. So they might experience a little bit of PTSD, but when they're guided by someone, a coach, a mentor, a parent, to see how growth came from that trauma, we become better.
Tim Elmore:That's what growth is all about. It's about facing those conflicts. So just to let you know the number, four out of five people that face trauma end up with PTG, eighty percent. So let's go backward for just a minute. I know I'm waxing eloquent now, but this is so important.
Tim Elmore:We have unwittingly created a victim mindset in the next generation. Not everybody, but in many of them, many of the fifty nine million. I'm not saying they're not victims. Eighty two percent of Gen Zers think they've been through a trauma. Now maybe most of them are right, but the victim mindset is what I'm combating here.
Tim Elmore:If you've gone through victimhood, let's get stronger. Let me show you compassion, and let's move on. But to retain that mindset, you're gonna be your worst enemy. You're always gonna be looking outside for answers, not inside, and you're gonna have an external locus of control, meaning someone needs to help me, versus an internal locus of control. I've got the answer inside if I can just find it.
Kim Bastable:I feel like that's then why that explains to me why the World War two example of my our parents came out of that, at least my parents, with an attitude of, you know, it made up the world got better, stronger. We all got together. We banded together. We found out what we could do in the face of adversity, and it was a good feeling versus what you're what you're explaining. Okay.
Kim Bastable:Simon, go ahead, and you had a question.
Simon Gale:So do you tie that into my my question's around the reputation. I hate to say they have, but the reputation that we hear around job hopping, for example.
Tim Elmore:Yeah.
Simon Gale:And is some of that attributed to that trend where it gets tough, somebody didn't talk to me the way I wanted to, I'm anxious about that, this is not what I wanted, and so I go and find something new versus the resiliency of dealing with that bit of adversity and coming out the other side a better employee and a better worker for the future.
Tim Elmore:Yeah. Yeah. I think two things are happening at least. One, you're right. The job hopping might be that I'm hopping around because I get bored, or I don't have the grit perhaps that I need to stay at a place that isn't fun every day.
Tim Elmore:But another reality that I think, again, explains them, if not excused them, is this. I believe in all of my research by the way, I should be quick to say this. My research is quantitative, so I interviewed more than 2,000 members of this cohort, but then it was qualitative. I did focus group after focus group after focus group with Gen Zers from California to to Georgia, and and I really saw patterns. So here's one of the patterns I saw.
Tim Elmore:There was a great fear of them taking a job that they end up hating. They're so afraid of getting a job they don't like. And then they said, one one even said it this way, I'll get some golden handcuffs on where now I got rent to pay and bills to pay, and I can't get out of this job because I need to stay around for the money. And they watched so many of their parents' generation in a job that stressed them out or maybe, dare I say, ruined the family. Dad left the family.
Tim Elmore:Now we have to have two Christmases. You know, that sort of thing. And by the way, not every time, but that did happen enough that they go, you guys live to work. I work to live. Gen Zers would often look at older generations and say, you your job was everything to you, and you didn't really have a life, dad or mom, and I want a life.
Tim Elmore:So some of this work life balance plea, which all of us agree with, we do need work life balance. I think their push on it is especially strong because so many of our can I say our generation?
Kim Bastable:Yeah.
Tim Elmore:Work became everything. You know? And they're going, gosh, is there some answer in the middle? And I think there is. So let me stop there and let you volley back.
Simon Gale:Well, let's stay on the job path a little bit, but focus a bit more on you've hired a Gen Zer, and you you know, we all know how important that first thirty, sixty, 90 of onboarding is
Tim Elmore:Yeah.
Simon Gale:With a new employee. Yeah. With within the onboarding process, what are one or two keys to keeping them in a position, and and how important is onboarding or different for them is it than than maybe some other generations before? What would be some tips you you would say we need to employ to keep them?
Tim Elmore:Good. Good. Good. Good question. Okay.
Tim Elmore:First and foremost, it's motivating to me as an employer that generation z members on average make up their mind on if they're gonna stay on day one. Now that's not fair. Week one, month one, three months, and, like you said, maybe is better, but very often, they make a quick judgment. This place isn't for me, or I don't feel like I belong. So the obvious first step, if I can just cut to the chase, is make sure that first day or first week is unforgettable.
Tim Elmore:Do pay special attention. Do make sure they feel welcome. They are saying I want to belong, not fit in. Now let me explain. Fitting in is essentially, well, I'm a round peg.
Tim Elmore:There's a square hole. I'm gonna try to fit into this hole here, and I really think I have to change who I am to fit in. Belonging is I can be truly who I am, but I need to be who I am on behalf of larger picture. So we need to push coaches for belonging. Let them be who they are.
Tim Elmore:They might have a nose ring. They might have purple hair. You deal with that later. Make sure they feel like they belong before you make any external changes. And then along the way, they can see, wow.
Tim Elmore:I could bring my full self to this team of workers and and not have to change who I am. But I do need to see the bigger picture. It's not about me. It's about us. So let me tell you some other ideas.
Tim Elmore:I stood in front of our team last year and said, we are inclusive and exclusive here on this team. Well, that made everybody curious. And then I said this, inclusivity means if you join this team, I want you to feel like you belong. You are included. You're gonna have a voice at the table from day one, but I want you to know we're exclusive in this point.
Tim Elmore:We're not for everybody. We have standards here. We are different, admittedly different. And I began to lay out how we have a mission that is unlike so many others. And I would I said to them that day, if that doesn't fit you, come talk to me.
Tim Elmore:I'll help you find another job. I'll show you the door. And I know the hair on the back of the neck stood up on many people's necks, but don't be afraid to say we're inclusive and exclusive. Here's another thing I say. Everyone is more important than their job, but no one is more important than the mission.
Tim Elmore:You see how that's a balance? Everybody's more important than their job. We had a day a few years ago where one of the gals on our team was living with a boyfriend, and he became abusive. And we began to see the signals that it was an abusive relationship. Our whole team stopped down for a day, stopped doing our work, our sales work, and we went and helped her move out of her apartment.
Tim Elmore:Now you might say we didn't get any work done that day. Oh, yes. We did. Our team bonded. Man, we bonded in ways that I had not seen us bond before.
Tim Elmore:And she was loyal to a fault from that point on because we became her family. So everybody's more important than their job. No one's more important than mission. Yeah. Everybody has a voice.
Tim Elmore:Not everybody has a vote. That's key. So please weigh in on the issues, but just know our leadership team's gonna have to make the decision. We're not gonna take a vote. We're not a democracy here where all 50 people get to vote.
Tim Elmore:I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I think Gen Z is gonna need to mature to realize there's both sides to this issue.
Simon Gale:One of the big things I take away, and thank you for sharing that story, I saw how emotional it made you, clearly just that emotion shows probably what it did for your team as well from from a connection point of view. But one of the things that stood out you just said was they make up their mind on day one. Yeah. Yeah. So what would be one exercise or thing that you would say you have to do something like this on day one to get them to leave saying, and it can't be, I'm gonna give you tomorrow off and I'm gonna pay you today either.
Tim Elmore:That's right.
Simon Gale:Use your paycheck, and you're gonna have tomorrow off, and we're only gonna work four days this week. But what would be something you would recommend to say, do this to help them feel like they're included or there's a sense of belonging? Something
Tim Elmore:practical. Let me give two case studies, two stories. They're not the racket industry. They're not tennis or anything, but they're jobs that maybe we could repurpose these ideas. So John Deere, you know, who makes tractors and and farm equipment, really around the world is so good at this.
Tim Elmore:When a new team member comes on board, mostly a young team member, but not exclusive, they make sure that they feel like so special on that first day. First of all, on the sign in the in the in the lobby is welcome, Melanie. You know, we're so glad you're here. We're not complete unless you're on the you know, that sort of thing. They're assigned a I forget what they call it, a Sherpa guide or whatever to be connected to them.
Tim Elmore:Here's your place where you work. Here's your computer. When Melanie goes to that computer, there's a note from the CEO. So glad you're here, Melanie. We've been waiting for you.
Tim Elmore:You know, that sort of thing. And then that Sherpa guide who's been assigned to Melanie is a team member that introduces her to other team members, takes her to lunch on that first day. And all of this may sound very syrupy to some listeners right now, but they keep their people. So somehow find a way to make that first day unforgettable. But here's another case study.
Tim Elmore:Orange Leaf Frozen Yogurt is a company, a chain of frozen yogurt stores, and they were noticing their Gen Zers were coming and going, coming and going, coming and going. Turnover rate was really high, about a year. And by the way, before I go on to the story, let me just tell you. The four generations that are mostly at work today, boomers, the average baby boomers stays about eight years and some change. The average Gen Xer stays about six years and some change.
Tim Elmore:The average millennial stays two to three, almost three years, but the average Gen Zir, two years and two months. So just know you may have to recognize they may be hopping around. The corporate ladder has become the corporate lily pad. Okay? We're we're hopping around, baby.
Tim Elmore:But what I might do is what Orange Leaf Frozen Yogurt did. Recognizing that this first job may be short, they decided to make the first job the best first job that a Gen Zer could have. Now think about that. So when that young person comes in, Melanie or Josh, let's say, they go, boy, we wanna make this the best launching pad for you for your career. Maybe you'll be with us a long time.
Tim Elmore:Maybe you won't. But what would you really like to grow in at this first job? And if it's bookkeeping, the boss might say, hey. You need to meet Hal. He's our bookkeeper.
Tim Elmore:He'll train you how to be a good bookkeeper. If you wanna learn marketing, oh, you need to meet Susan. She heads up our marketing. We'll we'll teach you marketing. And you know what they found?
Tim Elmore:Those Gen Zers fell so in love with this place, they stayed, but you won them at the heart level. It was the bridge you built, not the badge you wear that made them stay around because you're adding value. You're approaching the role not as a manager, but as a mentor. So I will I'll stop there, but there are things we can do relationally that really win them over, and I think that's the key to Gen Z.
Kim Bastable:That's good good advice. I think that takes us right into just the general made the comment about the four day workweek and that they may be their expectations. I think that's gonna challenge our industry. Not that we aren't working on it, but Yeah. But that's a challenge.
Kim Bastable:But what are the other motivational tools? Are they in this for higher price? Are they in this or, sorry, higher pay? Are they Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Bastable:Are they in this for more autonomy? Are they in this for career development? Are what would you say is are they motivating, you know, the tools we need to motivate?
Tim Elmore:Yeah. Well, it's both and. As I talk to these Gen Zers, loads and loads of them, they do want money for sure. There's no doubt about it. They're savvy enough to know, I better make some money.
Tim Elmore:In fact, remember that mom or dad that might join them at the job interview? They're gonna make sure that junior makes that money they deserve, blah blah blah. But I would say this, give them both meaning and money. Show how this role they're about to take plays a very meaningful role and purpose in the big picture mission of the team or the association or whatever. They need to connect the dots between that seemingly trivial role they're about to take plays into the big picture mission.
Tim Elmore:They wanna change the world. They wanna make a difference, not just a dollar. So I don't know how that looks, but think about stories you could tell that remind them this is very meaningful work we're doing here. Here's how we change the city that we're in or change the world. I don't know.
Tim Elmore:But that's that's really huge. Help them connect the dots. Here's another one. 72 percent of high school students today wanna be an entrepreneur. It's in their blood.
Tim Elmore:I wanna be an entrepreneur. I wanna start something, not just join something. So could there be a place on that established team that you lead where it feels like an entrepreneurial zone? Like, maybe there's a group of people within the team, maybe they're Gen Zers that are given a problem to solve, and you need a really innovative solution. And that zone over there feels like a start up.
Tim Elmore:And then you set aside budget for the untold fruits of their labor. You know? If you come up with a great idea, we're gonna put some money in this. And so they get both the security of an established organization where the paycheck is pretty secure, but it feels like a new sharp start up over there.
Kim Bastable:I love that. I I'm kind of my my mind went back to you, Simon. I'm gonna put you on the spot now. I think of two things here I'm gonna quiz you on. One, what do you think when the mom walks into an interview?
Kim Bastable:Have you ever had that happen?
Simon Gale:Yeah. You know my sense of humor well enough, Kim. I have not had the pleasure of that experience yet, but I would say if there was two candidates and one walked in with mom or dad and even if they were sitting outside the office with a glass on the window listening to every word, the one who came with no parents and could answer a question or two on their own is probably the favorite for the job. Yeah. Yeah.
Simon Gale:I get it. I get it. My daughter just applied for a new job, went through the process, and I was a big part of the conversations, but she's also in the other side of the country. Yeah. I'm attached to the process, but not physically part of it.
Kim Bastable:So, Tim, let me go back to that. They really think that's I mean, I is that the mom who's showing up? Surely, that 26 year old's not asking mom to come. I I don't know. I find that one fascinating.
Tim Elmore:Well, it is. And here's why Simon's reservation is so valid. The data on that four out of five continues, meaning mom or dad are often remaining helping with them. Sometimes the parent comes in and helps them get their work done. So with this it's this elongated problematic thing.
Tim Elmore:Even though you love what a great mom. Oh my gosh. You must care for your son or daughter. This problem is gonna be elastic. And
Kim Bastable:Yeah.
Tim Elmore:I don't I think it's short term parenting. I know we're not doing a parenting podcast right now, but parents, listen to me. The further out you can see into the future, the better the decision you make today for your child. If you look out and go, how do I wanna get them ready? Well, you're not you're not joining them there.
Tim Elmore:You're saying, listen. I'm gonna give you the tools. I'm gonna pray for you, whatever, and you go, and I'll celebrate with you when you get home. But I'm telling you, we're just making short term decisions. Another thing I would say is, and you've heard me say this before, I'm sure, we've gotta make sure we're preparing the child for the path, not the path for the child.
Tim Elmore:You follow what that says?
Kim Bastable:That's a good one.
Tim Elmore:Yes. Yeah. So, listeners, just make sure that whatever you're doing, you we do need to equip them for sure, but then we need to turn them loose and say, let's see if you got it. I believe you do.
Kim Bastable:Okay. Then the next one, Simon, I kinda like this idea of giving them an entrepreneurial opportunity. I think that's largely what you can offer them ownership of a program, ownership of you're gonna run ladies leagues, or you're going to start up a new program, or where do you see do you see that as something that could be incorporated into finding a way to retain these employees?
Simon Gale:Look, I'm not gonna brag because I think a lot of people are doing it, but we we have something called future leaders group at the campus, and it's a lot of this generation and a little older who are interested in where they're going and becoming leaders. And so we'll give them projects, something just an exercise within an hour and a half classroom setting and so on, but then we practically will apply some of these things too and say, that's a great idea. Let's put that to the head pro. But you're also gonna understand the profit and loss statement attached to it. It's it's not just an idea that costs a thousand dollars and we'd lose that thousand.
Simon Gale:How are we gonna generate revenue from it? Here are the real expenses. Factor in all these things so you understand the decisions you make must also generate revenue because we're in business here. It's not Peter Pan fantasy land, to use Tim's quote, but I think those practical applications are something we try and do, but they're not afraid sometimes to come with these ideas.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. I think that's a great potentially, that's not been done a lot, and we have different sized organizations totally from two and three people to, you know, hundreds as in the campus. But that's a great suggestion as a way to continue to motivate.
Simon Gale:100%.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. Okay. I I really wanna go back to this, like, question of are a a a tend to be a six day work week kinda place. Yeah. We know that's not optimal.
Kim Bastable:There's been lots of conversation that that it's just even if you're working five and a half days, you're working six days. And I hear of a lot of people who say, I I only worked five and a half days, and I think Yeah. That's the same. So so can we expect Gen Z to come to the Racquet's industry or maybe we should say stay in the Racquet's industry? Maybe they come for that first year or two, but can they stay?
Kim Bastable:Do we need a big change? Like, is this going to be, like, mandated upon us by this generation rather than just kind of we'll get to it in a few years? What what are your thoughts?
Tim Elmore:Wow. Well, that's a good question that's left to be answered. We don't know how fast. Is it gonna be a revolution or an evolution? We don't know.
Tim Elmore:But I do think change is coming. The book that we're actually talking about is my new book, The Future Begins with z, nine strategies to lead generation z as they disrupt the workplace. So I do believe it's coming. I just have been doing this for too many years to see it's not gonna change much. I think it's they're gonna push it upon us.
Tim Elmore:But let me give you a couple of ideas since we are wrapping up here on how do we deal with this. I would say first and foremost, don't think control. Think connect. In other words, if you're a leader and something goes awry or something frustrates you, isn't it true we often just seek to seize control of the whole thing? Just just put my arm.
Tim Elmore:Get out of my way. Let me just take control. I think control's a myth, especially in these days. But if I seek connection, that proverbial arm around the shoulder instead of the wagging of my finger at them, I don't get control, but I get deep influence. So, again, build a bridge, not a badge.
Tim Elmore:A bridge, not a badge. You know, that sort of thing. Don't think what. Think why. I think a lot of times we're used to just telling them what we want them to do.
Tim Elmore:I think Gen Z demands, why? Why do this? So take the few minutes it's gonna require to share why. They may have a better idea, but now they'll know. But I think if I explain why, I get ownership a little bit better from them.
Tim Elmore:I I win them at the heart level, not just the hands level. Don't think, here's another one, don't think commodity, think currency. Two of my Gen Z in the focus group said about their bosses, I feel like I'm being treated as a commodity. And what that means in essence is you bought me for a cheap price, you used me up, and you spit me out. Currency.
Tim Elmore:Oh my gosh. We all love currency. We invest in it, and we expect it to grow. Right? If you invest your money.
Tim Elmore:What if we saw them as this young man, this young woman, they're currency. I'm gonna invest, invest, invest. I'm gonna pour into them. And I know we all believe that, but I don't think we do it all the time. But if they feel like currency, not a commodity, be to be chewed up and spit out here's a good here's a good analogy.
Tim Elmore:Maybe this is good analogy. In the book, I tell the story of a woman up in New Hampshire that was walked into a thrift shop, a secondhand store. She wanted to find an old picture frame to restore. I guess she loved antiques. And she saw an old picture frame, and she thought, I don't know if I can use this, but it's just $4.
Tim Elmore:I'll buy it. She she buys this old picture frame. She takes it home and shows it to her friends and family, and most of them say, yeah. The picture frame's nice enough, but the painting inside that picture frame, I think it might be a famous painter that did that. She takes it to an evaluator and finds out it was an NC Wyeth painting from a hundred years ago, and she later sold that painting at an auction for a $191,000.
Tim Elmore:So think about what just happened. $4 painting turned out to be worth a $191,000. Now I don't know if this sounds cheesy, but I think a lot of times we don't spend a lot on those Gen Z They might be very, very valuable if we realize it's what's inside that frame we bought that might be worth so much money if we get it evaluated and we begin to to expect a lot out of it. So I'll stop there, but I think the future belongs to z and begins with z. And we we need to begin with belief.
Tim Elmore:And if we do, who knows what they might pull off as they change the future.
Kim Bastable:That's exceptional. Great parting thoughts and great wisdom, and I really love the the connect and the currency. I think it's just coming alongside. It looks like, you know, at some level, that's what we would do with an 18 year old. So, again, I go back.
Kim Bastable:I feel like that's the visual. Like, we're still needed to coach and train and
Tim Elmore:Yeah.
Kim Bastable:And have patience with. That's right. And not expect and demand too much. So any quick thoughts, Simon?
Simon Gale:There's so many I could list off, but I will say the inclusive, creating a sense of belonging and exclusive statement and and that our standards and expectations might not be for everyone, but that's who we are and no one's bigger than the mission. I I think they were really good takeaways for a leader. And just the practical applications of some of your your ideas, I think, are very helpful for people who listen to this. So really appreciate your insight. We could do a half day on this, but time is upon us.
Simon Gale:So thanks so much for being part of the part of the podcast, Tim.
Tim Elmore:It's my pleasure. My honor to be with you both.
Kim Bastable:We we really love it. We really appreciate your research. We know we'll look back on it frequently. So that's what we have for you today on Racquet Fuel. We'll speak to you next time.
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