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The GGJ Podcast brings the spirit of Global Game Jam to your headphones, with people from around the world sharing how they found their way into game development. Each week, Susan Gold talks with developers, studio founders, and festival organizers about the twists, risks, and side doors that shaped their paths and communities. You will hear honest stories about creativity, collaboration, failure, and the messy, beautiful reality of making games.
GGJPodcastThorstenWiedemann
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Intro
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[00:00:00] Susan Gold: This is the GGJ Podcast, a show about the games industry, the people who make them, and the communities that grow up around them. I'm Susan Gold, a game education Trailblazer and one of the founders of the Global Game Jam. Each week we sit down with a new guest. highlighting their own path and journey.
[00:00:24] This is a space for honest conversation from makers about creativity, collaboration. Failure and the messy, the beautiful reality of making games. So whether you're a young dev or seasoned an educator, a student, or someone who just loves games and the people behind them, welcome to the GGJ Podcast. Take a breath, settle in, and let's hear directly from the makers themselves.
[00:00:48] Shirley McPhaul: This episode is made possible in partnership with the Global Game Jam, the world's largest game creation event, bringing together creators from around the globe. A big thank you as well to the Global Game Jam's. Headline sponsors, Epic Games, [00:01:00] Games for Change, and XSolla for helping make this creative community a reality.
[00:01:05] To learn more and to get involved in the upcoming jams, visit global game jam.org.
[00:01:11]
Introducing Thorsten S. Wiedemann
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[00:01:18] Susan Gold: Thorsten S Wiedemann is the founder and artistic director of A MAZE the International Arthouse Games and Playful Media Festival that has helped redefine how the world sees independent games. Under of the the A MAZE label, he has spent nearly two decades producing and curating festivals,and workshops that treat games as a medium of artistic expression and cultural critique, not just a commercial product.
[00:01:43] So from its root in Berlin's bar scene, the events, that. Came to become A MAZE in Berlin, as well as popups in places like South Africa, Serbia, and Kenya and beyond.
[00:01:56] He's built a global community all [00:02:00] around experimental, subversive, and deeply personal games. Many of our audience also knew Thorsten from the Global Game Jam. He was in the 2018 keynoteAnd his call was to get yourself out of your comfort zone, stay weird, bring your whole self into the games that you make, and that spirit of play risk and care runs through everything he does as a curator, as a community builder, and in the indie and Art House scene.
[00:02:30] Thorsten welcome to the GGJ Podcast. It is a joy to have you here, and we're gonna dive into your journey, A MAZE and the communities you've helped bring together.
[00:02:40] Thorsten Wiedemann: Thank you so much, Susan. Thank you for having me. It is really an honor to be on your podcast. uh, I really like to dive a little deeper into my story and also have a wonderful conversation, so I'm really happy to be here.
[00:02:52] Susan Gold: Thank you so much, Thorsten. so where are you joining us from today? And tell me what do you do to spend your time and what does a normal [00:03:00] day look like for you?
[00:03:01] Thorsten Wiedemann: Yeah. At the moment I am, I'm in Berlin. I live in Berlin, since 99. And, I'm in my shop gallery. The shop gallery is something new that A MAZE created. it's a permanent space in Berlin. And also I have my office here. So I'm working from here. And today my day was more like drinking coffee, walking my dog, not doing so much, a little bit of calls, being a little bit nervous because of the podcast, so because I'm not doing it so often. Um, but yeah, so it was a relaxed day. Yeah.
What is A MAZE?
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[00:03:30] Susan Gold: I, I know that feeling A maze for people who have not had the opportunity to attend it's something out of this world. Why don't you explain what this festival is and, give me, a brief explanation, but we'll get into some more of your thinking and why it came about.
[00:03:50] Thorsten Wiedemann: Yeah, I think it's, you can see it in two parts because A MAZE is uh, basically it's a festival for games and playful media, but we advocate for independent games, [00:04:00] arthouse games and everything what is beyond, artists exploring game engines, theaters exploring VR spaces and all this kind of immersive experiences. you know, it's not just an event. it's not just a festival. It's really a label.And the festival is something we do annually in Berlin. So, we have an award, we have a conference, we have talks. It's about four days festival. You have a lot of parties networking. It's a wonderful event. And, next year we're gonna celebrate 15 years. You definitely should come.
[00:04:28]
The Accidental Path to Games
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[00:04:28] Susan Gold: Before you found a maze, you were doing things like talk shows and reporting at big events. What made you shift from covering games to building something like A MAZE and then creating a space for them?
[00:04:42] Thorsten Wiedemann: Mm. It was a really long process. let's start when I moved to Berlin because, um, I just tried a lot of stuff out, all the internships and was going into music, was going into film, was going into acting and all this kind of stuff.
[00:04:57] And, um. I didn't, know what should I do? [00:05:00] So then I was just working in bars constantly, just bars, bars, bars, nightlife. So it was good. I, I really enjoyed it a lot, but it's not fulfilling, and then, I was exploring doing talk shows
[00:05:10] And, I invited artists, uh, from Berlin, um, which I met in the bars where was working. And, yeah, I just asked some questions like you do now, so just in, in front of an audience, and it was pretty cool. I really enjoyed it just like by doing something myself
[00:05:25] So that was then the moment, back in 2005 I invited one guy, who was doing a magazines called, Game Face. And, I invited him to be on this talk show and talking about games and playfulness. and then he was calling me and said, Hey, do you want to go to San Francisco?
[00:05:42] go to the GDC. This was 2007. So we wanna do an online TV thing. And, uh, you can do whatever you want. Just be in front of your camera and, and ask people questions. I had no idea about video games, really. I was playing video games, but I had no idea of the whole industry. [00:06:00] And, there, I also met, my editor, Michel Lieber.
[00:06:02] Through Michel Lieber, we were traveling the world. We are asking game developers and product managers and event makers and musicians in this kind of game industry. a lot of questions and was great. So we've been to ChinaJoy, we also been to GDC, we've been then in Berlin and uh, also in Leipzig, So we were active in, in running around and interviewing people. and, when we've been to ChinaJoy in 2007, we were talking and wow, super cool. But somehow what is missing is the artistic part, you know, so we just talking about products not talking to the real developers, not to the artists.
[00:06:40] And I just remember when I was in,at GDC for the first time, I had already an idea, you know, 'cause there was the IGF award and thenmostly solo devs standing beside their games. and just like all this kind of independent video game part I was not aware of.
[00:06:56] and that was fantastic just to discover. And, then [00:07:00] Michel Lieber, and I, when founding A MAZE. Back in 2008 and, so we had a plan to celebrate the conversions of game art and other medium. That was the tagline, was the, the birth of A MAZE. After all this searching.
The First A MAZE Events & Discovering a Passion for Games
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[00:07:17] Susan Gold: So for youngsters, what was this scene like in 2008? What were you. Trying to do that didn't exist that you could figure out how to do at a bar.
[00:07:31] Thorsten Wiedemann: So I had already some idea of organizing events and this bar was very close by, was the Kimba. And I was just asking the owner if I can do something regularly, and we started with the A MAZE Jump and Run. parties and, uh, we always displayed one game and we had a DJ. It was basically, it was it.
[00:07:49] And, I was not so much in the industry, right? So, uh, 2008,I was more with Transmediale and ARS Electronica, this was more like my crowd, but I was not [00:08:00] awarethat there is, game developers in Berlin. I was just like, there's something missing and we wanna bring it to Berlin. I was aware of the German game days. but I was not connected To nothing.
[00:08:10] I knew some companies, but of course, there was also in that days the mobile games, right? Mobile games was, or Facebook games, was Facebook games. A lot of people did Facebook games. and, uh, it was free to play was a big thing. And, definitely not in my interest.
[00:08:26] And, then, we just started there were transmediale people, uh, media artists, um, some game developers, some students. But we started small, with, uh, 50 people something in the evening. And we had a good time. And this we did, uh, a few times.
[00:08:41]
[00:08:41] Susan Gold: Well, hey, I think that one, it was about having this kind of conversation with other people and that evolution and seeing that a niche wasn't being addressed. I think it's very intuitive and it may not have where your [00:09:00] first direction took you, but I have to tell you, you've done such an amazing job at creating something that has brought so many people together.
[00:09:11] When was the first actual big outdoor event?
[00:09:16] Thorsten Wiedemann: the bigger event where we really were calling us as a festival, 2010. And Club Transmediale were helping us a lot to just like to create this festival because different locations then bigger exhibition talks, workshops and all this kind of stuff was new to us.
[00:09:31] but then, where we were really jumping on the indie game thing was A MAZE Indie Connect back in 2012.And, Everything was evolving, you know, because I was new to this world that I'm very, very grateful that, uh, Marlita back in the days were helping me out. also bringing in contact. These are interesting people you should invite. because I was not aware that there is a community out there and who should we pick? Rami was for the first time [00:10:00] at A MAZE 2012. Söderström, was basically the keynote speaker. That was the year before he was bringing out Hotline Miami.
[00:10:07] Susan Gold: And it was really exciting times. so, and I always try to mix it a little bit with media art so that they also been listening to something out of the box. something. new to the game developers was a wonderful, um, tryout, the 2012 event.I think that's the one that I actually attended. and I played so many fun games and I had that interaction and that tactality Uh, it was really a beautiful experience for me in that celebration of games, and the people that were involved, I really felt had that passion as well. How did your passion grow for games?
[00:10:44] Thorsten Wiedemann: Um, by actually doing the event. So, Uh, since 2012, we have the award, so that means that we have submissions coming in and, I, I play the submissions of course, so I know what people are building over the. the years,
[00:10:58] But, but also, I was always [00:11:00] working with people together, asking questions and listening because I think, uh. Top down, I couldn't do it, or I just had no knowledge about it. So, I was always in conversation with different people asking questions.
[00:11:13] Is this good? Is this what we do? Is this the right direction? And all this build a passion in me not just making the event, but also the passion towards games and also to the people in the community.
Building Something from Nothing
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[00:11:25] Susan Gold: I love that. In the early days, what were your biggest struggles? And how did you know that you were gonna make a maze survive? What kept you going?
[00:11:34] Thorsten Wiedemann: basically I was always struggling, so, as a bar tender. you have your tips, , sometimes I was modeling or did some kind of, other work and, uh and I never had a real job. and basically with A MAZE I was building out a vision, having something I can believe in and, there was always struggles, getting funding, especially because nobody knew about A MAZE what is the goal of a maze? What is the vision? And just also to [00:12:00] articulate that, you know? 'cause I also had to learn how to articulate that to different people, I also always been working with cultural institutions, but then game industries, a completely different talk. they have completely different expectations. Sponsors have different expectations. and I'm very happy that everything was grassroots. So nobody was expecting anything. So it was just building up, building up, changing locations, changing style. And I think I always had wonderful people around me, the team,
[00:12:30] it's just wonderful to work with them and, um, explore, it's something there's no end, you know? You can't make a perfect event. I also don't wanna make a perfect event. I wanna make more positive chaos. I wanna create something where people also find themself
[00:12:43] And it's not like, it's built. So there's the walls, and it'll always be like that. There's always change. I love change.
[00:12:50] Susan Gold: Does it still feel like an experiment or more than just an experiment in Berlin? When did it become a part of the industry? Do you [00:13:00] think that it really took its route? Because now I think that people, focus on trying to get into a maze, and so it becomes a, a real like goal.
[00:13:13] Thorsten Wiedemann: Yeah. I think A MAZE. For me, it's still a baby, right? something I want to, see growing, but for other people from outside, maybe it is, this institution is this big brand,
[00:13:23] And, it's not about me, It's not just about my craziness and my work. it's a lot about the people who basically are A MAZE and A MAZE is more than just a person or a team.
[00:13:35] It's, it's something much bigger.
[00:13:37] And, um, the question of when the industry basically realize that A MAZE is a value to them, especially in Berlin. Uh, Medienboard Berlin-Brandenbur is our funder from the beginning on, it's a funding institution for film and games and xr projects, but also for, visibility of what is happening in the city. [00:14:00] And, um, yeah,they trust us from the beginning on basically since 2011, we are working together. the budget is getting higher and higher because our team and the festival and I have more stuff to fill, and suddenly there's another module, then suddenly there's another thing, what we wanna add. And then of course, then we also need a little bit more money. but yeah, so I think the industry loves us because we are definitely different to all the other events out there.
The Arthouse Games
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[00:14:28] Susan Gold: That is for sure. Now, we mentioned art house games. When did you really embrace that label? What does that mean to you?
[00:14:38] Thorsten Wiedemann: Um, when I started with A MAZE, I was working with the Berlinale Festival, a festival in Berlin. And, the competition. I think there's always select between 20 to 25 movies and, basically these are not blockbuster, these are really, art house movies.
[00:14:54] And, for me, even when I had already this idea of Art House in back in 2008, [00:15:00] I think I really embraced it, uh, in 2016 or 17 where we said, Hey, we have to concentrate now on arthouse games because we wanna have something, what is, challenging the perception of the player. So it can be political, it can be also well artistically, new, unique or brings. Two different art forms together in a digital playful manner. And, this is something what, is very easy to, to communicate now because now people understand. okay, yeah, there are art house film. So art house games, is similar. you have social critical things in there.
[00:15:43] You have political statements in there, or, um, very much artistic expression you have as well. Boring gameplay maybe. It's just emotion and I want to just explore, and this is something what is definitely, creates a new target audience for games as [00:16:00] well. not everybody wants to be entertained. A lot of people want to be intellectual challenge.
The 2018 Global Game Jam Keynote
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[00:16:06] Susan Gold: Well in that takes me to your 2018 Global Game Jam keynote. that keynote, was really a talk about putting your love, your anger, your doubts, your politics all into your work, and you literally got people moving together what were you trying to say in that performance beneath the humor and the aerobics?
[00:16:30] Thorsten Wiedemann: I mean, first of all, I was, a little bit shocked that I was invited. Joe was writing me, Hey, we wanna do a keynote. And I was like, what? Why? So why should I, uh, do a keynote? I have nothing to say. I have nothing to add, to game jammers who actually want to. Listen to game developers or artists or people who are actually picking the scene or did something great, made a wonderful game and everybody's looking up to, or whatever. So, I was like, [00:17:00] I'm just doing an event, of course I bring people together, but it was for me, like, whoa. super excited. because I also realized I can't talk about the A MAZE Festival. This is super boring. I definitely can't talk about making games because I did Game Jam, yes. And I know how this works, but, I was more thinking of let's really bring the people together, just get everybody on the same mindset. that was basically then the idea of making this aerobic thing. So I was putting Open call. I'm looking for a choreographer. Then, I wrote to Nomi, can you make the camera and do some animations in the background? And then I when I got the choreographer, I booked for two days in the dance studio. I rented some cameras and microphones and then we went there and, shoot. And of course, in between I was writing a script. Um, and, some people were reading it, if this is okay as well. So what I wanna say.
[00:17:57] Susan Gold: one of the things that you had said [00:18:00] in our keynote was a little more than just get out of your comfort zone. You're like, no master, no slave. Don't finish your game. All those things are provocative for a game jam. How do those ideas connect to your broader philosophy about games and community on resisting mainstream pressure?
[00:18:18] Thorsten Wiedemann: Yeah, A MAZE is always and been, and I am always punk. You know, it's always like, beep the mainstream, And of course stay underground and, punk of the digital age and, all these kind of Things are, for me, a liberation, so something you, you always can say what you want, of course, there's always in the context it has to be okay and fine. but don't be afraid to have an opinion. And this is something, uh, what I also wanted to, to give out, to, to the game developers and regarding getting out of the comfort zone. It's, um, yeah, try out something, don't be stuck in what you do already when you are a coder. Maybe go and be, uh, a game designer for this game jam. If you are a musician, maybe [00:19:00] do the art, and, um,
[00:19:01] Susan Gold: I'm so thankful you got out of your comfort zone. Uh.
[00:19:06] Thorsten Wiedemann: that's true.
[00:19:08] Susan Gold: It really,
[00:19:08] Thorsten Wiedemann: Yeah. Also the custom. Oh my God. Yeah.
[00:19:11] Susan Gold: was fabulous. I really, um, I feel that it worked very well with your personality. Uh, it, not only that, but it also said a lot about the A MAZE Festival without saying anything about the A MAZE Festival, you know what I mean?
[00:19:27] Thorsten Wiedemann: yeah, yeah. It's true. It's true. it has this kind of, it, um, wildness a little bit. But, I think it also, points out, you know, it definitely, gives people, yeah, space, you know, space I think is very important that people really feel comfortable, in what they're doing. And I think the Global Game Jam is definitely, is something where they can experiment and be with their peers. And also, I mean, don't finish your game. Don't crunch, you know, enjoy this experience. It's very important. even when there is award or something.it's not a competition. [00:20:00] It's a, it's a social. Experience
[00:20:02] you meet maybe new friends. Maybe you meet somebody with whom you're gonna, create a new studio. Or maybe there's a game idea where people wanna work together further, so there's no rush, I would say. So enjoy the time. Yeah.
Crisis and Personal Growth
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[00:20:16] Susan Gold: I love that.
[00:20:17] Now, how about you? At this time in your life, where are you, how are you dealing with life? The expectations of a major event and also trying to grow that event. How are you doing personally?
[00:20:31] Thorsten Wiedemann: Um, for me, it's really something I, I identify myself a lot with A MAZE, so, um. And, personally, I grew a lot over the years. it was complete chaos. before I started A MAZE, during A MAZE, I was also chaos. But I just had this feeling that I'm building something great, something what I really can be proud of, uh, in the end. And. There was sometimes no sleep. There was sometimes just [00:21:00] party, there was sometimes failing. But, all in all, I'm very happy. I'm happy where I am right now.
[00:21:06] Susan Gold: That's good. Looking back at two or three defining moments in the history of A MAZE in Berlin, what do you think really changed its direction and its identity and your growth?
[00:21:17] Thorsten Wiedemann: Um, 2012, we had this festival the, HPC, I think, A MAZE really defined, in this kind of raw area where we had this huge beer garden where we had the gallery, where we had the club and everything was in one place. that basically defined how we wanna operate, and how we wanna have this festival feeling. So you connect games with music and also reach out to other people. also having a raw exhibition experience.
[00:21:49] So everything was Yeah, with palettes. Uh, with scaffolding. We just used what we could find. It was really raw and punk. and then of course,the team, [00:22:00] it's evolved, over the years we also had to change locations and, I'm very, uh, grateful as well that, um, Lorenzo P went in, he was doing the program from 2014 to 2019 for the A MAZE Festival.
[00:22:13] He brought a lot of change inlike the code of conduct, safe space, things what maybe I was always running, running, running, and I, I always had people around me who also hold me back and said, okay, hey, we have be a little bit more careful. We have to take care of that and this and that.
[00:22:29] And that was, very good. So I think also, um, in 2016 or something, we've been the first festival with the code of conduct at, at least in Europe. And then, 2019 was a killer year, because then I wanted to have a big event, more people.
[00:22:47] but financially a disaster. So it was almost the end of A MAZE. And the community basically, help me with the Kickstarter campaign to get, 50 K. and, that was actually, saving A MAZE. [00:23:00] So, of course, you can always balance it out and whatever, ask people to wait.
[00:23:04] but somehow there's still minus and still carrying it because it was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was completely, failed from the financial perspective. I was expecting more people. I was expecting this funding, I was expecting more sponsors, blah, blah, blah, blah. Completely chaos because I was believing in something but was not real.
[00:23:24] Susan Gold: but somehow I figured it out, you know? when the Kickstarter campaign would have failed then, would be definitely very complicated to, to rescue A MAZE Um, but, uh, defined in a artistic direction, I would actually mention what happened in 2024.
[00:23:41] Thorsten Wiedemann: A MAZE Sheffield. Um, my, my breach of code of conduct completely
[00:23:45] changed everything, How I see the team, how I see myself, how everything changed. not the artistic direction so much, but personally I changed, and I needed to change.
[00:23:54] Susan Gold: I always look at it as personal growth and you were very apologetic. And [00:24:00] additionally, I feel that people heard you when you said, I'm sorry. And I think that's very important and I think you've grown a lot from that experience and that you took on the responsibility. That's a lot.
[00:24:17] Thorsten Wiedemann: Yeah, but it was really a process when I've heard that I was in Bishkek at a Game Con, and then the team was calling me and said, Hey, we need to have a meeting.
[00:24:26] And then, they told me, yeah, we are aware of something. What happened at, A MAZE Sheffield. I was like, oh my God. I was aware of something because I, I, I was, uh, um. A little bit of a mess, that day, you know, and then, at the end I was shouting and, being really rude and unprofessional. so of course I came up, but then the process, because then I was feeling like a victim, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then the team, they want to kick me out, and all this kind of stuff. It was really a nightmare in my mind.
[00:24:56] It was how should I be and how should I [00:25:00] work with people again? And oh, it was horrible. so when we wrote the statement and together everything became a little bit more relaxed, but the month before, it was a complete disaster. You know, it was changing from this to that, it was everywhere.
[00:25:14] It was complete emotional rollercoaster. uh, I'm happy that I always had people around me, who actually asked me how I am. and, um, I treated some people a little bit unfair, but, uh, uh, in the end, I also apologized there, because it was kind of blah. So, um.
[00:25:31] But, when it was then the question is Torsten at the festival or not, then I was like, I'm working here since 15 years, you know, but I mean, this is not an excuse, you did something wrong and this is just something that you need to get into your mind, and also accept that.
[00:25:48] And I think it was just fantastic. So how the team and also, the people from WINGS supported us. Yeah.
[00:25:55] Susan Gold: You also told me that you stopped. Substance [00:26:00] abuse I mean, having an occasional beer is in substance abuse, but you were having a little bit more of a problem and you kind of came to terms with that. Is that true?
[00:26:09] Thorsten Wiedemann: I mean since I'm 15 or when I stopped doing sports, then I was on a wild ride. So, I enjoy that. But of course, it changes your personality a lot and especially in a professional environment is definitely not what, uh, what you should be intoxicated and, the decision is definitely, I did as well, or I still do therapy and not drinking.
[00:26:30] and sometimes I, I cheers, but I'm not gonna do binge drinking or something like that,So this is over now because I think I have a responsibility towards, the team towards my family, because I have a kid as well. definitely it was like, okay, Thorsten, I think you have to be careful now.
[00:26:47] It's time to change!
A MAZE South Africa
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[00:26:50] Susan Gold: It is. Okay. I don't wanna grow up and look at how old I am. Let's take a moment and among your accomplishments was something [00:27:00] that no one else had done, which was A MAZE in South Africa. How did A MAZE first connect with South Africa and what led you there and what sparked that kind of relationship?
[00:27:12] Thorsten Wiedemann: It was a interesting, very interesting adventure. So, um, we did a festival, I, I mentioned it with the Club Transmediale in 2010 and there was a DJ from South Africa at Club Transmediale was walking around. Oh yeah. Saw the exhibition. Oh yeah. This is A MAZE Interacted was called A MAZE Interact. and, then he was, uh, going to one of our team members and said, um. Yeah, do we have video material? Because I have a production company, in Johannesburg and, we work with TV channels together.
[00:27:41] Maybe this is something we, we can show, And, she was coming to me and then I was like, oh yeah, of course. let's send everything down there. And then they basically made, two little episodes out of, this video what we had, recorded. and then because the moderator of this show was Pippa [00:28:00] Tschabalala, she basically was then my contact so as well, because she was asking me some questions and then I was like.
[00:28:07] is there a games developer community in South Africa, blah, blah, blah, all these kind of questions. Is there maybe a university? And then she said, yeah, um, you definitely should get in contact with Witz Water Rent University, and talk to them. And of course, I can also open some doors and that was back in 2011.
[00:28:25] And then I, I just remembered that I have a friend, a musician who moved to South Africa to Johannesburg and then I was calling him, Hey, I think I want to go to Johannesburg. Can I visit you and stay maybe a month at your place? Um, because I wanna sort something out or maybe I wanna do a festival. And then, I was going down there. he was super welcoming and helped me to connect with the music scene, And I was connecting the Witwatersrand University and as well with Good Institute, so I had a pitch deck. Went to Good Institute [00:29:00] and they had this program, New Imaginaries and New Imaginaries were three, lighthouse projects.
[00:29:06] And one became A MAZE Interact. So I got money to basically, do the first festival with the Good Institute about video games. and uh, now they are really, really pushing hard, on video games around the world and also XR and everything.
[00:29:22] Um, and, um, 2012 was the first A MAZE festival in Johannesburg. And then we did it until 2017. And, um, it was then becoming a little bit smaller because there's another event. It's a digital art festival. it's called, Fak'ugesi. A wonderful thing. But, um, somehow I was feeling like I have to protect my brand A MAZE and, I don't want to get sucked into, an umbrella event.
[00:29:49] So I, I pulled the plug and said, okay, I'm gonna go, to Cape Town maybe. and A MAZE Cape Town sounds also cool because I know the people from Free Lives, they're very good [00:30:00] friends and also the community there, it's quite big and vibrant and it's really diverse and cool. and then I just said, okay, I don't want to go all this risk. And I was talking then to, um, Free Lives
[00:30:11] and told them, okay, I think I can't do that. So do it yourself. Do it yourself. Create your own festival. Create your own identity. And since 2018, they have Playtopia It's a wonderful festival, wonderful, great selection of games. The community is really, really cool. And, yeah, so I made this kind of introduction of doing a festival. Now they have their own festival. I'm happy I go there and visit the festival. Sometimes we also work together. between 2018 and 19 we created, a train jam.
[00:30:47] We copied the idea, what goes from Chicago to San Francisco, but we go from Johannesburg to Cape Town. It's a 30 hour train ride. And, we did it twice.
[00:30:57] so 50 developers we had on the train. [00:31:00] And, uh, they also got a ticket at Playtopia. They did hyper talks, presented their games and it was really cool thing. So we, we are still connected. Also this year we had hyper talks and the small, um, game selection at Playtopia.
[00:31:14] Susan Gold: If you look at your journey so far, which of those accomplishments are the things that make you feel most true to who you are? Or have you always felt that everything has been very true?
[00:31:25] Thorsten Wiedemann: to be honest, I was always running and I just wanted to become better in what I'm doing and exploring more possibilities and finding new ways to communicate, what A MAZE is, and also finding collaborations. But of course, the biggest accomplishment I would say is, That A MAZE is still existing and that I also realized that A MAZE can exist without me. This is also something, it's a great accomplishment for myself, a personal accomplishment that you don't have to take yourself too serious. Yeah. Just you, I
[00:31:55] can also actually can step back a little bit, you know?
[00:31:58] Of course. I mean, I wanna be the front [00:32:00] runner. and I want to be the artistic director. I love it a lot being on stage and Wow. Yeah. but I'm also 53 and, I'm just thinking right now, how can we changethings that I can be more like in the background, put another artistic director there, or, or artist director team and, uh, evolve the festival.
[00:32:19] And also that the festival basically can survive.
[00:32:22] So at the moment, it's needed that I'm there, but, maybe in five years, there's a structure there.
[00:32:28] What actually, defines a new A MAZE
The Future of A MAZE
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[00:32:32] Susan Gold:
[00:32:32] When I left the Global Game Jam, it was very hard for me, because I too identified myself as Global Game Jam. You know, I also had that feeling of this is my child, and.
[00:32:46] I do like that I'm stepping back, but it is hard. It is really hard so that when you see A MAZE in 10 years, I sure that it's not the same A MAZE and that it'll [00:33:00] always be growing and sometimes you just need fresh, young blood.
[00:33:04] Thorsten Wiedemann: I mean for me it's most important that, that A MAZE is not, uh, becoming a sellout, that A MAZE basically stays of the same, it can definitely change in structure. Also, the games will change. Everything will change because, technology is being fast. I don't know if people are gonna play, games on the, on, on a PC in five years,
[00:33:20] But, um, this is something what, will come and, let's see, but definitely A MAZE, should stay always positive chaos, punk, having a kind of a political. agenda and also being a front runner as a festival and try to form a better industry. I mean, it always sounds kind of a better, you know, better world kind of thing, but I think A MAZE had some influence into the industry and, this is something what we definitely wanna, work on more.
[00:33:48] Susan Gold: Well, I know that you have, are you doing anything right now to mentor anyone within your team to take over some of your responsibilities?
[00:33:58] Thorsten Wiedemann: Um, I mean, this is a [00:34:00] process. there's nobody I, I can mention right now. but of course, there's a core team also. Uh, the structure changed a little bit so that, there is a, we call it flock. six people, surrounding me, so. I always address what I wanna change or what I wanna do, you know?
[00:34:14] And then we have this kind of, board meeting thing, and then they also check that there's a code of conduct in place and all this kind of stuff. And also because I was always like going, going, doing, doing, and because, A MAZE is not, uh, a company where five, six people work constantly with me.
[00:34:29] I'm always sitting aloneAnd,sometimes the A MAZE Berlin team doesn't know where I am, what I'm doing, what A MAZE is doing, So, um, we, we are gonna sort this out better, but, at the moment I wa like to be artistic director. So it's definitely something I, I like to work on. maybe there is a chance in the future that there is somebody on my side, running with me and maybe this person will take over.
[00:34:52] But we are talking about maybe five years or something. It's not
[00:34:54] Susan Gold: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:55] Thorsten Wiedemann: like immediately. So I still have fun, you know, I still have fun.
What A MAZE Wants to See Next
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[00:35:01] Susan Gold: So interestingly, I wanna ask, because you get so many diverse different projects in front of you and fall under the category of game or playful, What do you wanna see more of? What are you looking for? What are the types of things that are going to excite you or excite the people that come to A MAZE?
[00:35:24] Thorsten Wiedemann: there is not something I wanna see. It is more like, Um, what can I see and how can I reach out to people? I think the curation process has to becomemore defined in what we want. And um, I also had a wonderful conversation with our, program manager Zuraida Buter
[00:35:42] about the program and the curation and of course, there's always something we can add to the festival to show what is happening in the world and what is actually the community like.
[00:35:52] uh, it's an international community. And I mean, they're also,minorities. we don't have, on the plate. indigenous [00:36:00] games, you know, all this kind of wonderful game developers we can't reach because we are not in this world,
[00:36:06] But this is something,what definitely has to change to, um, to really be a, a festival where the world comes together. Yeah. So it's not a, it is not a particular thing, you know, it's, it's more like, uh, I like to bring people together and, that they actually can learn from each other because for example, African narratives, this is something I want to have more, and that's also why, uh, Good Institute and A MAZE is doing now an Artisan residence project. called Playful Obscura, where we invite, two game developers from African continent to make a residency for three weeks in Ghana.
[00:36:41] And, they create basically art house games. but we don't want to push them into that because, in Africa you'll become a game developer to make money. not everybody has the privilege to be just an artist
[00:36:53] it's really a career, they're building or a chance to be seen or making money. we don't wanna force that too much, but definitely What we [00:37:00] wanna see at our festivals, more is African, narratives.
[00:37:03] It's, is very, very important. And I'm sure we are missing out a lot of other stuff as well.
[00:37:08] Susan Gold: Well, the whole global south, I think is one of the things that,
[00:37:12] I mean South America as well as the Pacific Islands, I think there are a lot of creators and stories available
[00:37:22] Thorsten Wiedemann: Yeah.
[00:37:23] Susan Gold: that make for interesting and compelling games.
[00:37:26] Thorsten Wiedemann: You, do. With the Global Game Jam is something really incredible. how many, locations you have now?
[00:37:32] Susan Gold: well, we've been in over 115 countries,
[00:37:35] Thorsten Wiedemann: Whoa.
[00:37:37] Susan Gold: uh, to know that there are creators making games, thinking about play, thinking about how we interact with each other. is a testament to the evolution of society. But at the same time, there's changing cultural politics, there's shifting funding models, there's AI, [00:38:00] there's very little space for experimental in art house, and so really feel so fortunate to know that there is someone tending to it. Being that person that makes sure there's a space for it in our community. That's really important.
Where to find Thorsten
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[00:38:21] Susan Gold: As we wrap up our conversation today, there's so much more, but I love the fact that you are constantly pushing and trying new things. What upcoming A MAZE events or projects should people know about right now and where can they follow you and find out more about the festival online?
[00:38:42] Thorsten Wiedemann: we are on all social, platforms. but of course, am A MAZE, uh, the A MAZE website, we have a-maze.net or the festival website is, uh, amaze-berlin.de. And, um, yeah,
[00:38:58] We are celebrating 15 [00:39:00] years of a maze, Berlin. This is super exciting. we have our shop gallery now. It's just opened so much stuff is going on. also what I definitely wanna do in the future, and maybe somebody wants to help me, to create a kind of an arthouse game archive.
[00:39:15] So really all these wonderful games, what we had as well at the festival so that, uh, everybody sees us on the website and having some kind of more insights also in the teams who did the games and maybe it's can also become in the future distribution platform. Who knows? You know, so.
[00:39:34] Susan Gold: after, uh, I'll, I'll send you a connection to someone. I have someone that could help you with that.
[00:39:39] Thorsten Wiedemann: Okay. Cool. Thank you.
[00:39:41] Susan Gold: Yeah. All right. I wanna thank you very much, Thorsten. You have been such a kind guest and sharing so much of the story, a little bit of your own personal. Growth and of course the growth of something that I think is now a staple in the games community.[00:40:00]
[00:40:00] We all love attending the A MAZE Festival. I think that there are opportunities for our listeners to participate, to attend, to find out more about what happens because it's not just the festival. It is a whole new approach at looking at games, and I love the fact that you are thinking about the future and the fact that we are in this creator space and we get to share these things with one another.
[00:40:32] I thank you for all of the effort that you have put forward in making A MAZE possible and all of the sweat and tears and time that you've done to create such a amazing experience for people. Thank you so much. Thorsten.
[00:40:48] Thorsten Wiedemann: Thank you, Susan.
Outro
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[00:40:49] Thorsten Wiedemann: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:40:50]
[00:40:50] Shirley McPhaul: Want to get involved with the G GJ podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Please send your ideas, suggestions, and questions to ggjpod@globalgamejam.org [00:41:00] and tell us who you think we should be talking to next. What stories or issues matter most to you about the future of games, and help us highlight the people and practices that make a sustainable, creative life and games possible.
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[00:41:37] Catch us on substack and on YouTube and anywhere else you find podcasts. This has been the GGJ Podcast. Thanks for listening and keep making games.