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You know your business needs to change, but you’re caught in the emotional and relational dynamics that are holding you back. Welcome to Noble Metal, the podcast that helps you forge a new kind of leadership. Host Phillip Weiss, a seasoned executive coach and organizational consultant, reveals how to become a more resilient, deliberate, and less-anxious leader.
Through powerful insights based on Bowen Theory and systems thinking, you’ll learn to navigate complex workplace relationships, manage challenging strategic issues, and lead your team to sustainable change. Get the clarity and tools you need to forge a new path for your business.
Ep11
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Only Adult In Room
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[00:00:00]
Phillip Weiss: Hello and welcome to Noble Metal, where we explore leadership at work and in life through the lens of Bowen Family Systems theory. So are there times when you feel truly like you are the only adult in the room? Like no one else really gets it. So maybe it's at the office where you're staying until eight o'clock, because you believe that if you don't double check the spreadsheets, everything's gonna go down the toilet.[00:01:00]
Or maybe it's at home where you're the only person who knows where the spare light bulbs are, who or when the dog needs its meds, or why the neighbor's mad at you. If you feel like you're carrying the world on your shoulders, you might think, Hey, I'm just, I'm an overachiever. But today I'm gonna suggest something else.
I'm going to suggest that you might be what Bowen Theory calls an over functioner. If you're sitting there thinking, well, if I don't do it, nobody will. Congratulations, you really have just identified your partner in crime, the under functioner. So we are talking about the automatic relationship pattern patterns, and this is pattern number four.
The over and under functioner or the I'M capable and you're not dance that is possibly keeping you exhausted and keeping your team or your family stuck in neutral.
Leadership Lens Bowen
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Phillip Weiss: [00:02:00] So first and foremost here, just as a reminder, these podcasts, this discussion today is about leadership and just as a kind of a refresher, probably from.
The very first episode I quote, I quoted Systems leader Kathy Wiseman with her definition of leadership being the ability to create and sustain positive momentum within an organization, a project, a family, or a congregation.
So in bow, in theory, the, the whole systems perspective implies this larger context that we plan and the real importance of being able to lead ourselves first within that context. So before focusing on motivating or inspiring others, I think that the first questions we need to ask are, how am I showing up in this situation?
How am I as the leader behaving, and what impact am I having on those around me? [00:03:00] Am I contributing to stronger functioning of this system, or am I adding strain? So to that end, then becoming aware of our automatic reactive tendencies, which we're gonna take a look at today. Number four, that this becomes essential.
The self-awareness really is the foundation, our leading leading ourselves well and ultimately leading others more effectively.
Mindset Not Technique
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Phillip Weiss: So before we dig in, I wanna make a key point here. Bowen Theory is not a technique we live in, an age of quick fixes.
Just tell me what to do. If I, you know, if I do A, B, and C, then X, Y, Z will result. That is a technique and that's not what this is. Instead, I would propose that Bowen theory is a way of thinking. I would actually say it's a mindset. It's inviting us theoretically and scientifically to try to see the bigger [00:04:00] picture of the, kind of the, the.
Platform or the stage on which we are leading. And really a key point in this theory that I'm still kind of coming to grips with myself, which is this idea that it moves it, the, this theory moves us away from simple cause and effect thinking. So an example of that would be, and it's very popular and trendy today in pop psychology, which is when you do x.
It makes me do or think why? And the implication is, is that this is a one way street. This person does something and it causes the other person to respond. And in a sense there might be truth to that, but it's a bigger picture. There is both are actually. Playing a role. Both people are playing this game or doing this dance.
In a sense, it's taking two to tango. There is an [00:05:00] ongoing back and forth, and that's one of the things that I think that is so useful with this theory is that if I start to see, instead of seeing cause and effect, like this person makes me angry, what if I see it more as a. Dance that both of us are doing, and it causes me then to say one, there's less probably blame.
And then really, very importantly, what is my part in this potentially. So a move away from cause and effect thinking to a more systems reciprocal view of human interactions. So you can't you cannot get certified in Bowen Theory, but you can study it and think in terms of the theory and reflect on how it applies to your own functioning.
So ultimately this is not about applying a set of techniques. There are recommendations of actions to take and ways to think about implementing. Yes. But this is primarily about engaging a way of thinking, grounded in observation, [00:06:00] experimentation, and a scientific approach to human behavior.
So with that, on that note, let's get going.
Patterns Refresher
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Phillip Weiss: So as a refresher, we looked at three of the five patterns, increased togetherness. Remember, togetherness is the baseline, but I, I'm proposing that under stress. Some people go for even more of that togetherness, that, that kind of blue, that like, you know, that group think thing.
The second being conflict. Just classic, you know, go for the jugular aggressive behaviors. And the third one we talked, and last one we talked about was this distancing and cutoff, what I like to refer to as a fan favorite, but we also have a fan favorite today, number four, over and under functioning.
Over Under Dance
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Phillip Weiss: This is so important because many of us are really, really good at over-functioning and our culture rewards over-functioning behaviors in spades. So if I kind of want to geek out a little bit, Michael Kerr, who was kind of like, [00:07:00] or is somewhat Murray Bones or apparent, he refers to this as the dominant adaptive dynamic.
So if you think about it in that way, these are. That, you know, that dominant adaptive, those roles are a normal part of being human in any system. Somebody has to take the lead. I mean, think about a parent and a child, A toddler shouldn't be deciding the household budget or when it's time for a nap. The parent needs to be responsible and care for the child.
And in organizations you've gotta have a leader. And I'm a personally a firm believer in hierarchy, but the challenge comes into play when we start doing more for people than they actually need. It's the difference between someone's reality need and the overfunctioners anxiety. When you start doing for others what they should be doing for themselves, you've potentially crossed the line from helpful leader to over-functioner.
The idea is that under [00:08:00] stress, some of us just simply take over, and some of us like are really good at it. We think we know best. We start fixing things maybe even before they're broken. And here's the kicker and kind of the you know, a sort of, motivator, if you will. The systems. The systems typically love these overfunctioners because for every over functioner there's a reciprocal under functioner.
Again, there's that dance, that back and forth. These are the people who let you take over. And eventually they don't just let you, they expect it. They stop thinking and doing for themselves because they know that you'll think and do for them. It is a seesaw and again, it's this classic back and forth that reciprocity where it takes two to tango.
Workplace Rock Stars
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Phillip Weiss: So let's talk about what this actually might look like in the, in the wilds of the workplace. So often at work we might actually call [00:09:00] Overfunctioners rock stars. These are the people who get promoted. Why? Because they're reliable and they get stuff done, but sometimes that reliability turns into doing for somebody else, or in common lingo, actually, classic micromanaging.
So why would somebody over function for another person? So two considerations. The first is the perfectionist dilemma, somebody wanting total control. When I am in control, I'm calmer. I get to create the narrative and the outcome, and that calms me.
The over-functioner down. The second is the anxious observer of somebody who's struggling. So Kathleen Smith in her really great book True to You, nails this, and I, I wanna do a major shout out to Kathleen's book. True to You. This is an excellent very accessible description of some of the key elements of Bowen [00:10:00] Theory.
So one of the things she points out is that sometimes, and I'm referring to this over this person who's watching somebody struggle, is sometimes over-functioning is actually a manifestation of my discomfort with somebody else's distress. So if I'm a parent, I might get anxious watching my kids struggle with a challenge.
So I step in with advice or actually start taking over. So my, my, my thinking is, is that the parent is potentially distressed with the kid's distress and they want the kid to be successful.
So the opportunity here immediately, kind of out of the gate, I think for the over functioning to think about the opportunity to consider is, can I live with the discomfort of my, of my own anxiety so that my kid can wrestle for him or herself and build their own muscle, so to speak.
Pseudo Maturity Signs
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Phillip Weiss: So it bodes an interesting question.
Who's more mature here? The over the under [00:11:00] functioner. On the surface, it looks like the over functioner is the one who has their act together, but really both are demonstrating a version of immaturity. Overfunctioners demonstrate what Kathleen Smith calls signs of pseudo maturity. Pseudo maturity. So here are five things she mentions.
You only feel comfortable when you're in charge. If you aren't the captain, you're the critic. You have a need, quote unquote, to be the expert. You speak for other people. So for example, like what Sarah meant by that was fourth, you're only interested in things that you control. And fifth, you get a mood dipper a heavy cloud over your, over you, the second you aren't in the driver's seat.
So there's an there's, there's an immaturity in a sense on both. Both sides of the equation.
Drew The Functional Thief
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Phillip Weiss: Let's take a look at a business story just to illustrate this. So imagine Drew Drew's a vp. He's brilliant, truly sharp guy, [00:12:00] but, but Drew's team actually, when they gather is pretty, they're, they're pretty quiet.
So in meetings day drew will ask a question, waits a few seconds, and then immediately answers it himself. Self. He spends his weekends polishing, his manager's, polishing in air quotes, his manager's work, and Drew thinks, you know, he thinks of himself really honestly as a hero, but he's actually maybe a functional thief, so to speak.
He is stealing the opportunity for his managers to grow. And because Drew's over functioning, his team is under functioning and they've learned a few things along the way. One, don't interrupt. Drew. Two, he believes he's the smartest person in the room. And three, that if they wait long enough, Drew's gonna do it.
I wanna make a comment before moving on here about this idea of being the smartest person in the room. If, if you really draw this out, this thought out, that if as an over-functioner you really believe you have the answers, the [00:13:00] solutions and that you probably are at any point in time, the if not, if not one of the most smartest people in a room.
I mean, if that in fact is a person's mentality, I do think that that can create a sort of arrogance. As an over-functioner and it's just something that as I was putting this podcast together, I, I was just thinking about and want to ponder that, that more, but the question kind of being can over of over-functioning mindset lead to a form of arrogance?
Under Functioning Explained
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Phillip Weiss: I wonder if in fact it does is so let's look though at the other side of the seesaw here at the under-functioning. So under-functioning isn't necessarily laziness. It is a, a way though that we, to quote Bowen theory, borrow self from other people. Overfunctioners lend themselves under functioner, borrow from others.
So when we under [00:14:00] function, we rely on somebody else's confidence. We're relying on on their energy, we're relying on their ability to know and to get us through. So let's think about a, a family in this case, and I'll call it kind of the clueless spouse, and let's call him Alec Alec's wife. Jan handles every single social engagement, the kids' school schedules and the taxes, everything.
She's on it and Alex is like, you know what? I'm just not good at this stuff. Jan's the boss, but Jan is also exhausted and resentful. And honestly, Alex feels like a teenager at times in his own house. So when Jan goes away for a weekend, he panics. Why? Because he's borrowed Jan's competence for so long that his own muscles in the sense have atrophied.
So this is the ne negative impact here. Overfunctioners end up as martyrs with high blood pressure and under and under functions [00:15:00] end up feeling helpless and small at times. Neither person is actually being in their full self. Both are immature in their own ways.
When Taking Over Helps
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Phillip Weiss: Now before I move on to sort of how we might begin to move, you know, to do a little better here, I want to be clear about something.
There are times when we need to over function. If, for example there is a crisis at work, somebody's working on a project and they've dropped the ball for whatever reason, they're not able or they can't do it. I, as the boss, may very well need to step in, and there certainly might be times when as parents, there is a need to actually step in and function for someone else as a matter of safety, security, crisis management, et cetera.
The challenge here though is the overuse of this, or any pattern, that automatic tendency we have simply to take over because we're feeling the [00:16:00] discomfort of the anxious moment.
So let's think about how do we, how do we start to kinda move? How do we start to move in a slightly better direction, especially as an over functioner?
Responsible To Not For
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Phillip Weiss: Kathleen Smith points out that in bone theory there is this emphasis on this distinction between being responsible to people instead of being responsible for people.
Being responsible for someone beyond just your obvious child rearing and other roles, but being responsible for somebody is over-functioning. It is being overly sensitive to another's distress. It's carrying their emotional load, it's fixing their mistakes, being responsible to somebody. And, you know, interesting, you know, just, just slightly different words, two versus four, but being responsible to somebody is about being clear, honest, and holding your own boundaries.
In a relationship dynamic, it's saying [00:17:00] as a boss for example, I am responsible to give, to give you the tools you need, but I'm not responsible for your success or failure in the use of those tools. Interestingly, in our book, Kathleen List has a list of 50 ways that we might be over functioning, and it's a doozy of a list.
It really is. It includes things like worrying about other people's problems more than they do, or giving unsolicited advice, finishing people's sentences, telling someone what they should order off the menu. The list literally goes on.
So what do we do? What do we do in the face of this, this over-functioning is just really normal. It was interesting. I was had the opportunity to speak to a church group a while back, and I covered this concept of over-functioning. And this woman just kind of turned to me or raised her hand and said, you know, oh my gosh, this is what I have been doing with my kids.
So [00:18:00] what do we do?
Observe And Pause
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Phillip Weiss: The first thing that I would say, the kind of the broader scoop, the broader umbrella here is to start to get genuinely curious about how you're showing up. And that starts, first of all, with observing yourself. I cannot stress that enough. What are you saying? So not even a need to fix anything here.
Just what are you starting to see? It's starting to notice I cannot change what I don't see. So because over-functioning rarely feels like over-functioning in the moment. It, it, it, it kind of at times feels like being helpful. It feels like being responsible or as many of us tell ourselves, let me just handle this really quickly and move on.
And that's, that's kind of usually where it starts. It happens fast. Someone hesitates, you [00:19:00] jump on it. Somebody struggles. You take over. There's silence. Ooh, many of us don't like those silent moments, and suddenly you're leading the whole conversation. So one of the goals here is to slow that moment down just enough to ask what's happening with me right now?
And as I love to say, and I do say it a lot, how am I showing up here right now? What's that look? What does that look like? So if I'm standing up on the balcony, kind of, of my own life and, and watching this play, so to speak, you know, what, what am I seeing?
How am I showing up here? So this, this over-functioning is not about what's wrong with other people, but it's really more about what am I worried will happen if I don't step in? What discomfort am I trying to avoid? Because often over-functioning is less about their capability as much as it is about our discomfort with uncertainty or what we perceive as [00:20:00] even inefficiency watch the signals.
Pay attention, you'll start to notice cues, a sense of urgency and my and and the over-functioner thought is that that needs to get handled and I might be the one to do it, or a thought process. It's just easier if I do it. Or irritation can be a signal. Why isn't this getting done? These are helpful signals.
So instead of acting on those signals, try pausing even briefly and asking what would it look like to stay present with the situation without taking over? Sometimes that might mean biting our tongue and saying nothing, which for some of us is much harder than it sounds. Or it might mean asking a question instead of giving an answer, and we'll get to that in a second.
So I worked with a leader a good while back who noticed that she jumped in anytime there was silence in meetings. And she honestly, I mean, she really did. She thought she was being [00:21:00] helpful. She was very uncomfortable with the silence, so she began to practice. She tried waiting and she noted that it felt like forever, but it was, it was probably about five seconds.
But then eventually people did start to speak and the, the team started thinking and engaging for themselves, which as the leader of that team, you know, would be what she wants. The bottom line was, I, I, I suggested that she take basically the cotton out of her ears for a moment and put it in her mouth.
Now, I, I, I know that's a little crass, but I think it makes the point, and in some cases, that's what we need. Those of us who are over ERs, that's what we need to do. Hit that pause button. Close our mouths.
Ask Questions Instead
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Phillip Weiss: So here's your homework experiment, and it's gonna lead to the second recommendation When you feel that itch to take over at work or home, I'm suggesting that you pause and here's, here's [00:22:00] a way to do that instead of.
Providing a directive, ask a question, which again is the second way I'm, I'm proposing getting curious. The first one is the observation. The second one way of getting, being curious is to start asking really thoughtful, open-ended questions. So for example, instead of, Hey, just let me do that. Ask. Ask somebody.
What's, what's your plan for tackling this hurdle? Or instead of somebody saying, you know, or you know, instead of me, the over functioner saying you should call the plumber, maybe posing a question, what do you think is the next step here for getting this leak fixed? Or instead of the over functioner saying, that's not how we do it.
Maybe say something like, Hey, I'm curious what led you to that specific solution? Now let me just say, there's a lot to be said for how we pose these questions. 'cause you could say, you know, Hey, I am curious what led you to [00:23:00] that specific solution. You know, obviously implying, you know, you're kind of an idiot, but, you know, thinking about our tone makes a difference here.
A key to this q and a piece is the, is the ability to wait for an answer and to be really working, to be genuinely interested in what the person provides. Again, if, if our goal as a parent or a leader in an organization is to help people grow, we have got to give them that opportunity and over-functioning really cuts that off at the knees.
Let Them Struggle
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Phillip Weiss: So wait for the answer. There will be silence. It will feel a little awkward. The under functioner will look at you like, you know, maybe a, a, a little baby bird waiting for a worm. Don't give them the worm. Give them the dignity of the struggle. Let them think, let them function. When you stay in your own lane, you give them the space to finally pull their own weight.
Closing Thoughts
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Phillip Weiss: [00:24:00] Leadership isn't about being a hero. It is about managing your own anxieties so that the people around you can finally grow up food for thought. Thank you for listening. If you found this useful, we would love it if you'd leave some comments and a specific recommendation. Thank you so much and we'll see you next time.