MCU Need to Know

Now that all of Loki is out, we can step back and take a look at the series as a whole. Join us as we welcome Leech back to the podcast to discuss the highs and lows of Loki season one!

Show Notes

Now that all of Loki is out, we can step back and take a look at the series as a whole. Join us as we welcome Leech back to the podcast to discuss the highs and lows of Loki season one!

If you want more of Leech you should follow them here:
Twitter: @Leecho

Spoiler Free Until 7 minutes and 4 seconds!  

We're also looking for people to chime in with their best impression of the spoiler zone sound! If we get enough, we'd like to use listener submitted impressions throughout the duration of What If...? for our reviews! Even if it's recorded with your cellphone, feel free to send them to us at! 

Don't forget you can follow us on Twitter or Instagram to let us know what you think about Loki or this episode!
Twitter: @MCUNeedtoKnow
Instagram: @MCUNeedtoknow

If you'd like to join our discord you can find that here:

If you want to follow Jude you can find them here!
Twitter: @Jhubbit
Instagram: @Jhubbit

If you want to follow Trey you can find them here!
Twitter: @TheTapStream

Also would like to give a special thanks to Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song! You can find more of his work here!

Want more of our podcast? Check out our website for more episodes and news!

Creators & Guests

Jude (Hubbit)
Catholic | Still trying to make sense of things | Co-host of @MCUNeedtoKnow Podcast |
Trey Solis
One day I woke up painfully aware of my existence and I’ve been apologizing for it ever since.
Variety Streamer | Cosmetologist | 3D Maker/Crafter | GIF SpecialistShe/

What is MCU Need to Know?

The MCU Need to Know is a podcast dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and everything you need to know! Hosted by Trey and Jude.

Trey: Hello and welcome back
to another episode of MC Uneed

to know a podcast dedicated to
the Marvel cinematic universe

and everything you need to know.


Jude: Trey.

Trey: Well, Jude I'm excited because
after a season of dodging rabbit

holes, we get to bring back in a
friend of the pod who specializes in

navigating a myriad of MCU rabbit holes.

I'm delighted to welcome back our
resident fan theory expert, and an

always delightful guest, Leecho..

Welcome back Leech.

Leech: Hey, thanks for having me

Jude: welcome leech.

Trey: It's so exciting
to have you back on.

I think we cause throughout this Loki
season, I think we've been throwing

out a number of references of like,
oh, Leech probably jotting this down

or at least just scribbling about this.

So I'm so glad that you're
able to, to come on and do

this wrap up episode with us!

I, and, and you were pretty much spot
on and every single one of those too.

So I am so glad I'm able to come
back in the end and say, Say w w

what happened during all of that?

Cause you know, I've been, I've been
not around this whole time, so I'm

very curious to finally talk to you
both about all the crazy theories.

How big is the

Leech: notebook?

I mean like this Google docs, a few pages.

So I mean, how much time do we have?

Jude: You know, we're talking
about the TV time is relative here.


Leech: all cyclical or

Jude: whatnot.

Trey: The TVA's different
podcasting times different we're

in the right place for this.

Well, you know, it's, it's been
a while since we've had you on.

So before we jumped into Loki I
was wondering if we could just

get some brief thoughts on some
of the new things in the MCU.

Uh, we've got a, what if coming
up and we had black widows.

Well, uh, what are your feelings on

Leech: those?

Um, to bring everyone up to speed.

I try to stay away from any
spoils and I'm not crazy about it.

I'm not like, oh, I have all
these, you know, tags up and stuff.

Like, I don't see anything.

I just try to avoid it.

And if it happens, it happens.

Or if it's something crazy casting, I I'll
see it, but I try to avoid everything.

So as far as what if I've seen, I
think what two trailers now, and of

course I'm pumped, it's incredible.

I think we had an episode and
what we talked about animation in

general and just how this is going
to look and everything we saw.

And I just am very excited
about that, but we also had

black widow and Loki to digest.

So it's kind of like, okay,
I'm coming for you later, baby.

I'll be, I'll be right there.

I will be right there.

And let me deal with these people, these
kind people for, so I kind of, haven't

really dove too deep into that at all yet.

Not that there really is
anything besides the trailers.

It did see black widow.

I thought it was amazing.

I thought it took way too long for
that movie to come out and I was

just so happy to finally see it.

And it kind of felt like this weird,
not weight off my shoulders, but just

like I wanted it to happen for so long
and it just kept getting pushed back.

So it was just that relief, the relief.

It was good.

That's always one of those
things like, oh, thank God.

It was really good.

It wasn't for nothing.

I just, I just had a
really good time with it.

It, uh, I I'm almost speechless.

Like it was just, it was intense.

It was also fun.

Um, we learned a lot about this
character who we all kind of had

a connection to, but not really.

She kind of hung out in the background
and I'm really glad we got to learn more.

I'm pretty happy about that.

And it still ended up tying in as well.

Well, so Leech,

Jude: did you see this, uh, Black Widow
in the theater or did you go, Disney plus

Leech: I ended up going Disney plus.

Um, one for fear of getting the
wrong showing and that happening

again, traumatic experience.

So just, you know, for safety reasons,
we have small kids at home, so it's

been also just logistics of that.

It's like, okay, you go today.

I go tomorrow.

It was just stupid on the couch.

Like we have the couch, you know,
we've got the big TV, the backlighting

like let's pay for it and watch it.

And it's done.

And I was pretty happy
with the experience.

I had no issues with it.

And as much as I really do miss
the movie theater experience a

lot, I still don't feel like it
would have been quite the same.

So, um, I doingDisney plus

Jude: it's interesting.

There was a big backlash by theaters
on from the, from theaters on the

sales, going down the second weekend
and blaming the early access.

And just hearing your story, it sounded
like if there wasn't early access,

you probably wouldn't have seen it.

Leech: Yeah.

Um, I don't know what, yeah, if I
would have, unless it was a very

unique, like maybe a drive-in

Jude: situation.


And it makes me wonder how many people
like you that would not have went,

or would not have seen it there.

Those numbers of the
high Disney plus numbers.

Might've been a little deceiving.

Leech: Yeah.

I I'm, I'm curious, like
I'm really appreciated.

I hope they can continue with it.

Or maybe even after the first week
it's out, it's in theaters, but then

the next week, or maybe like the, the
over the weekend it's in theaters.

And then like that Monday, I don't
know, not this whole three month thing.

What not they've been doing, but

Jude: yeah.


45 days, the three months seems long
because I realized that like, it goes to

DVT three months later, but unless you
have a black Panther type run, there's

no need to wait that long for streaming.

Leech: Right?


So, I mean, for me, I really, I
really appreciated it and being

able to just do it from the comfort
of my home, I wanted to see it.

I was going to see it no
matter what, and I'm glad.


You know my decision
to keep my family safe.

Didn't hinder me seeing it.

So I'm not saying anyone
else that went wasn't safe.

I just, I have two kids and I'm paranoid.

So like, no, no, no.

Look outside.

And we get the flu.

So anyone that has like little small
kids knows that you just they're

just magnets for any sort of germs.

Jude: Yeah.

Trey: Well, cool.

That's very good to hear and get your
thoughts on all the latest MCU stuff.

But of course, if you downloaded this
episode, you know, that we were going

to be doing our Loki season one.

Wrap-up so leech, I think because
of the precedent and you said we

can, you know, get into the spoiler
zone and I'm so happy that you're

finally back on this wrap-up so we
can continue this tradition together.

Leech: This is, this is great.

I'm so happy to.

Trey: Well, uh, like we said,
we're going to play an audio cue.

And on the other side, we're going to
be full spoilers for Loki season one and

everything in the MCU up until this point.

So we'll see you on the other side.


And Rebecca, so we've put out two
of these wrap-up episodes so far.

So we do have a familiar format that
we're going to handle this, but since

this show is getting a second season,
we added in this section, which is what

are our lingering questions for Loki.

So leech, if we can start with you,
what lingering questions do you have?

Leech: All right.

So I have a list and I really
wish I had like this Santa Claus

type scroll that I could just
unfurl and you all could hear it.

Cause that's how it feels like these
bullet points I'm about to reference.

Um, so I did a rewatch, of just all
of them sat down and watched them all.

And I kind of, I think I did
this in chronological order.

So, um, some things were I want to
know why no robots are allowed, if

that's just a matter, of course, that's
just a matter of like, you have x-ray

vision and you can see what's going
on here and it's all fake or cause

there was a mention of that in the
hallway, like, oh, this is all sorcery.

It's like, no, this is real.

When, uh, Loki was getting
escorted in by Mobius at first.

And so I'm just kind of wondering
if a robot could very easily.

See, and they've had that happen before.

So that's a check.

It's one of those things like
don't put the plastic bag on

your head cause you'll suffocate.

Like there's a reason it says that.

So maybe there's a reason we have
no robots because something happened

previously and we had to reset.

So that was, I

Jude: wonder, I wonder if that
was a dialogue change, I wonder

if it was a dialogue change.

Cause we know.

From agents of shield and
I, and one throwaway line in

Avengers life model decoys.


So, yeah, I'm just, I'm wondering if, if
that was just, if that was the thought

originally and it got changed to robot.

Leech: Very, very true.


I mean, cause that's kind of
more all encompassing, cause

it's like, oh you can go robot.

You can go Android, you
can go life model decoy.

You can go whatever the heck
Vision is at this point.

So, I mean, especially anyone that
sat through shield, I mean, sorry

that anyone that watched shield wow.

We'll know that they got pretty
heavy into life model decoys.

So I, yeah, it, it really could
have just been a generic robots.

It could be absolutely nothing
and I've just watched one

division and become paranoid.

So, um, we'll see.

But that stuck with me, that
stuck with me through a lot of it.

Cause I looked for that and I
didn't see any sort of indicator.

Why anything robotic would be,
you know, a threat in this.

Little universe and, you know,
in this show and the TVA, so

that stuck with me along with,
um, the Aurora check in general.

And I understood it was like, uh, it
was, they expressed it before they went

into the grocery store, like, oh, it's
for sure a Loki, we checked the aura.

So it's like a thumbprint or
like a fingerprint in a way.

But what is that like?

Why aren't you taking just a fingerprint?

Like, I mean, I guess every
version, every variants different.

So it's like, if an aura check, I just,
that's just, just like, oh, tell me more.

I want to know more about
this two second thing we got

Trey: it's just the TVA's vibe.

Jude: yeah.


We gotta make sure.

Leech: Yeah, and it, I don't think
there was anything significant about

the scan, but it was just interesting.

I don't know if it's just, we're
dealing with things unknown.

And so there's like all these unknown
questions rather than like, okay.

Everything you've ever said, cool.

Like that's kind of fun, you know, you
get your chicken, your clothes change.


We already did that in, um, Ragnarok
you know, having that kind of

transformationy thing into your new
garb, but, uh, maybe it's just to throw

you off and be like, oh, this isn't
just, you know, TSA at the airport.

This is something way bigger.

And we have to consider your aura and
we have to consider robots, but that

stuck with me through a lot of it.

And I'm really wondering if
there's maybe someone with the

funky aura, that's a robot.

Well, actually in season

Trey: two, it makes me
think of two things because.

One, we ended up finding out that
the timekeepers were robotic.

So I wonder if there was some sort
of like con conflict of interest

of there where maybe robots
could just pick up on each other.

And then the other thing now that we
know it's he, who remains, I wonder

if he has any sort of like connection
to robotics that makes it, makes

him want to just screen for them.

Maybe that'll be fun to keep track of.


Leech: Another one that I had
was why don't the powers work?

I don't think they ever explain that.

Is it because they exist
outside of space and time?

Is that just the general what
we're going to say it is, but

their power's not working at all.

It was kind of wild.

Jude: Yeah.

It's interesting.

Cause you would think the, those
powers are something inherent to them.

And so was it like some
kind of inhibitor or?

Uh, well, I mean.

Maybe if it was also attached to the,
to the Infinity Stones in some ways, and

the infinity stones didn't work and in
there, I don't know it, but you're right.

It's I would love to see
an explanation for that.


Leech: There might just be, you
know, security protocols in place

that just, you know, nothing
works here except for our stuff.

But I'd like to know more because
everything so far seems to be again the

whole, like don't put the bag over your
head, cause you're going to suffocate.

There's reasons why
these rules are in place.

There's no powers.

There's no robots.

You have to check your aura like something
happened and it wasn't just his variants.

He usually, he who remains
see, I almost did it too.

um, so like there's, there's a reason.

He's the last one.

And it might be because
the powers are off.

It might be because the stones don't work.

Like he had to go through all these
different, if it's everything,

you know, it goes in a circle of
time, goes in a circle every time

you learn and learn and learn.

So maybe he learned how to, you
know, dampen all that stuff.

I don't know, but it's, it stuck out.

It stuck out through the
whole thing I checked.

I, I watched and nothing, you know?

Oh, they use powers here, but not there.

No, it was very strict.

There were no powers at all.

So I'm very

Trey: curious.


It almost feels like a grand scale
version of the containment thing

they had for Loki in Avengers.

And it's just, just sort of that
suppression technique that maybe

they picked up from watching that

Leech: they, that was the whole container.

Is that what you're talking about?


Well there's also, I was just thinking
of the, the, the cell on Asgard that Loki

was, he was still able to use his magic

because remember he made it, he
inside, he, you know, everything

looked fine and he was hot mess.

He just couldn't get

Jude: out.


Trey: Technology gets better.

Leech: magic.

No guys come on.

So 10 years ago.


And then let's see.

So, okay.

Something that got me.

So I used to TA in the library and so,
and I also work in office, the desk job.

So the whole cataloging, I don't
know what it was about the labels on

the floors and the rooms and in the
library, it irritated me so much.

Cause I could not figure out a pattern.

And I don't know if that was just a sense
of, there's like a bajillion infinite

libraries and it's gotten to the point
where it looks like, uh, you know, 10.

Digit passcode with, you know,
symbols and letters and numbers.

Like, you know, you're just so far
out in the system that, of course

it's going to look like nonsense or
if none of it actually makes sense at

all, but nobody cares because they're
just going through the motions.

And so it doesn't matter
if there's labels, they're

just going through motions.

I don't know if I'm looking too far into
that, but it was so irritating seeing

like floor SVA next to T2 five, and
it's like, this doesn't make any sense.

They're just a floor

Jude: different happening.

I'm curious if that was a set
designer thing or a production

designer, prop designer who got
to who got to make that choice.


Leech: was very, it was very prominent.

Anytime you're in that building, you
saw the elevator buttons, you saw

the labeling and the cataloging in
the library and it just nothing made

sense, but it also could just have
been a part of the bureaucracy of.

The office space.

It could have just been nonsense because
the whole thing's nonsense, maybe it was

our first clue that it was all nonsense.

So who knows, maybe it was just,
maybe it's just all a front and

that's why it makes no sense.

Jude: Well, for as big and bureaucratic
as it seemed and I get, cause it was

six episodes, it felt like that's, you
know, Mobius was the only analyst we saw

Renslayer was the only judge that we saw.

We saw

Leech: three other judges.


Jude: Okay.

So the one before rinse layer

Leech: and then yes.

And she was a hunter and then we
saw two judges in the hallway.

When was it?

Colby was walking back like, Hey,
this guy came out of nowhere and

he was talking to two judges.


I check that.

Cause I was wondering too.

You know, okay.

You're more powerful than we are assuming.

And then on the walls in the
courtroom, I guess that's what it was.

There were murals of multiple
judges, but it didn't seem in a sense

of like, you know, you have past
Kings and Queens in their paintings

around the wall kind of thing.

Like the person in that position at the
time, it was like this mural of like

a bunch of different judges together.

So I was wondering,

Jude: well, and I think that Linda,
what I was going to say is I was

just going to say, it seemed like
for as event shattering as this show

was right or Universe shattering,
I should say only a very small

fraction of the TVA was working on it.

I have a theory

Leech: about that.


This was the God's.

Or this is the soups division of the TVA,
and that's why they're dealing with it.

Cause I mean, you got, you got
Bob who didn't punch in on time at

work and he's going to get pruned.

You think that like she
wants to deal with that.

She seems really high up, she's got
trophies, you know, all this other stuff,

they seem to kind of be like, Mobius
is working on like the special case.

So maybe she deals with the more upper
cases, just based off of like the few

we saw, which were, you know, look
some, a couple Loki cases and whatnot.


Trey: and that would fit into with how
cause even Kang says like, oh, the highly

bureaucratic TVA, like it would make sense
that everything is so compartmentalized.

Oh yeah.

Leech: Oh yeah.

Cause you don't want him to
get a big picture either.

You want to keep him busy
enough to not ask any questions.

Trey: Right.

Jude: It's very, very
office like, oh yeah,

Leech: actually.


I think wasn't there a poster that said
like less meetings or more meetings

equals less productivity or something.

So they had a lot of those,
those posters everywhere.

Just keep going.

Don't don't ask questions.


I'm trying to think, what else did I have?

Did you guys have anything to add to that?

Jude: Um, I'm curious off of what you
just said, Trey and I talked about this

and I don't remember if this was on
pod of off pod at this point, but you

have that scene where Loki, um, has
a stack of everything he ever said.

How tall do you think your
ream of paper would be?

And does that include
like emails and texts?


Leech: could include for Loki
because I doubt he's done very much

emailing and Asgard and texting.


Where's Loki been this whole time.

He was.


I mean, it hasn't, I mean, he also doesn't
have any friends, like, let's be real.

So who's he really texting right now?

Um, mean, but it could, I think I
remember this getting brought up.

I can't remember if it wasn't
an episode or in the discord.

It might've been in the discord.

Um, I think so, but I don't know.

And I'd be mortified if, uh, it
was like, Here's your Leech pile.

Oh, no.

Trey: Yeah.

I, uh, I'd be very afraid to see my
pile, especially now with the podcast.

Jude: Yeah.

Leech: Yeah.

I don't know.

I think, yeah.

I also, I'm curious to know if that's
like a test of some sort to be like,

okay, yeah, we can pull this trick
off like three times, but this is

the stack we showed the last guy.

Like we don't know, like it's like
the challenge, the, the, um, what

is it when you get a new app on your
phone, the terms and conditions,

the terms and conditions, challenge.

Like, did you really read it?


You click the box didn't you,
you just clicked it and we

just wanted to get, keep going.

So I don't know, maybe it was, it
was nothing because that didn't

seem pretty like a pretty small

Jude: stack.


So I think you asked, I think some
of the lingering questions for me,

and I don't even know if this is
leaving, it brought up in season

two and all the different Loki's.

Uh, so in other words, when somebody got
pruned and you were, they were pulled

out of the timeline, um, did another,
is that where the variations came from?

There's like another one pop up in
its place in, you know, uh, Part of me

really hopes like that was the case.

Cause then I'm curious to, you know,
alligator Loki story of like, you

know, this look, he gets pruned
and we replace it and I was like,

oh crap, it's that alligator.

And then you just prune it immediately.

Cause it's oh yeah.

Uh, so yeah, I'm, I'm curious about that.

Um, Lincoln questions.

I really hope we get to
see more Mobius's story.

Um, and, and to see that, um,
I really, I really hope we get

to see lingering questions.

How did the TVA get started?

You know, and I get for a show like this
and, and, in universe-wise why they might

not even bother answering that question.

Um, but I'm really curious.

And, and that's the lingering question
for me, like, as, as we just talked

about, you know, as you just mentioned,
the big bureaucracy that it is.

And the, the hunters,
everybody being variants.

Was that like a slow build over time or
did like, you know, he who remains just

kind of take a big, broad sweep of people.

Trey: Yeah.

A deeper dive into the mechanics of the
TVA would be nice to get, especially, I

know we've been wary about getting into
getting stuck in the weeds, but I do think

it would be fun if we do get some more
light shed on some of that inner working.

Leech: Feel like we might get that
from judge Renslayer because she got

those suggested files and dipped,
and I'm sure if she's not in on

it, she's like what is happening?

Cause I like some sort of power and then
finding out I have, none is ridiculous.

So I feel like she's going to seek
out like some answers and we might

find out how this started through her.

I could see that very easily happening,
or maybe that's what's in the files.

And it's like, maybe if everything goes
wrong, you need to be the one to start.

You know, you need to be the one who
remains like this is, you know, plan B.

Trey: Well, I mean, cause all that
information comes from he who remains

like he sent it via miss minutes
because Miss Minutes says, oh, he

thought these would be useful to you.

What I think is missing is he
who remains not realizing that

Renslayer was having this crisis.

Maybe not a crisis of faith, but
like on the doorstep of a crisis.

So you just can't it's

Jude: I might argue that he knew.

Well, yeah.

Cause if that happened before they
crossed the threshold, then he had to

Leech: have miss minutes flips back.

Like yeah, she is losing it.

We need to wrap it up like this.

Like now she is okay.


I'm getting your file, sweetie.


Yeah, she's losing it.

Cutting it a

Jude: little too

Trey: close to the threshold boss

Jude: and 115.

I'm really, you know, I mean the last we
saw her was letting the other hunter know

the, that he was a variant by showing,
Hey here's Judge Renslayer you know, so

I really would want to see that character
story go on because she had really not

a lot of screen time, but a lot of, oh,

Leech: we saw her with Mobius
at the end seeing the splits.


Wasn't that the last,

Jude: yeah.

Yeah, but I, okay.

So I guess in that lingering
question, Is that a-we did we see

where they were those different?

Were those variants like, like, like,
was it like re, were they reset and

we're looking at the same people that
just didn't remember because they had

never experienced what we saw or were
they literally he's at a different TVA

now I think, and the ones we saw up
until that point still exists somewhere.

The ones

Leech: that I kind of took it, that
the ones looking at the monitor,

I think said something along the
lines of like he did it or something

that implied there's no going back.


Like they, they knew what was done as
in like the ones that we have known, but

definitely the ones at the very end in
the library are completely different.

Like a different, yeah.

Uh, and that, and that one
is very confusing for me too,

because I don't understand if
this is a completely new universe.

I don't understand if time
looped on itself at that time.

And when he was sent back and therefore
we have started over and we don't have

the option for a different Mobius because
there is none because it was overwritten.

And that's when I just stopped thinking
about it because my brain started hurting.

Trey: Well, I think that's a perfect
place for me to jump in because

this stems, both of this stems off
both of what you two are saying.

Uh, one of my lingering questions is
what does it mean that Loki is sent

to a universe where there isn't Loki.

So there is this question of Mobius
and whether or not they are variants,

whether the same people that got
reset, regardless of what that is, they

don't recognize Loki Mobius says like,
oh, you're the new analyst, right?

Uh, maybe, you know, he starts
motioning over to get people to

help whatever universe this is.

Mobius is not a low-key hunter
specialist, whatever he is,

because he doesn't recognize him.

And I'm really wondering what
that means for our Loki moving

forward in this season, too.


Jude: Yeah.


Leech: yeah.

Mobius could be a judge the way that
he was being treated in that new space.

I mean, I mean, what was his name?

Um, the lowly office worker.

He didn't even know what a fish was.

So how you know Casey?



Casey, Casey didn't know what
a fish was, so I could very

easily see all their minds wiped.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, I saw somewhere, somebody noticed in
the credits, he was credited as a hunter.

At the end of that episode,

Trey: when Loki's walking through trying
to find Mobius, you can see some Minutemen

rushing in the background and apparently
that's where you can see slash hear him.

But I haven't seen it, but I, I
have seen, it mentioned like you

Jude online, so things are changing.

I mean, and it's, it's evident because the
whole camera turn big reveal is that it's

a statue of Kang and not the timekeepers.

So some things have definitely changed
since the last time we were in that space.

Leech: And this might be our.

Next preventative measure the next
step, like wipe the existence of Loki.

Loki just never existed at this point.

We'll figure it out.

If you're able to figure out how we
can have the infinity gauntlet and

live happily ever after, unless that
was just an empty promise from Miss


Like we can figure out how to
erase Loki and still keep what

needed to be kept for the timeline.


Trey: Well, cool.

So definitely, as you can see, we've
got a lot of lingering questions, uh,

as a very excited for the future of
this Loki series, but we do want to talk

about this season one in particular.

So Jude starting with you this time,
what did you like most about Loki?

I liked that it

Jude: made me think, and that it

challenged me that we both talked
about it through the pod about, there

was some episodes where it's like.


I'm not sure.

And then the next episode you're like,
okay, I'm in, I, you know, I bought in

and then we watched the next episode.

It's like, ah, what?

And then the next episode is,
okay, I'm buying it again.

And I liked that looking back
that I really struggled with it

and in that way, and really made
me, um, it wasn't something I can

just sit and watch and just enjoy.

I had to wrestle with things.

Uh, so in the end, I, I think
that's one of the things I

really liked the most about it.

Trey: Yeah.

I think because a lot of times we
talked about this going into the

podcast recording, we would have
what, 30, 40 minute long false starts,

because we were just caught going back
and forth on, on the conversations

that this show was spurring.

And I mentioned, regardless
of what we feel, that's really

cool that this show can do that.

But, uh, what about you leech?

How, what did you like about Loki overall?

About Loki?


Leech: really, I really, really
liked how they have been consistently

adding these just new characters
with minimal screen time.

And we fall in love with
them, or we want to know more.

And then while doing that, developing
this character who just acted like an

absolute brat in Avengers, and then
having this insane amount of character

development and just like one episode,
like it almost just all happened in

one episode, I would say by the third
one, it was, we were almost at like end

game Loki or I guess infinity war Loki

But, um, it, it was just kind of
wild how we had all that progression,

but then at the same time, we still
had enough time for the show to

teach us about this new threat and.

Hold our hand through it.

It was just like, here's the
context here's what's happening.

Oh, here's a good way to measure the
scale of the threat is the infinity

stones just being paperweights.

And we're seeing and building
upon this and just the fact

that they're able to do that.

And I was so invested in this
show and it's just six hours.

Well, meanwhile, it took decades, you
know, to lead up to end game, or I

guess not quite decades, but you know,
it took a long time to get there.

It took a really long time.

Trey: The wait in
between movies felt like,

Leech: yeah, really did.

And I just, I just really appreciated
that because honestly, I didn't have

that connection with Thanos at all.

Like I, I knew there was this.

I knew that existed somehow,
somewhere I've heard of it before.

I didn't really feel like
we got much of him at all.

I really didn't understand any of
that in guardians of the galaxy,

the first couple of watches.

And it wasn't until I sat
down and watched them all.

It's like, okay.

Yeah, there's some mention
and whatnot, but I didn't

really have a good feel of it.

You just kind of felt like a jerk,
but, uh, this is like, you know,

we all know what we're facing now.


And this is, this is beyond us

Jude: hearing,

Trey: even hearing you phrase it, uh,
we know what we're dealing with now.

Just maybe shiver because the
MCU has got a huge threat on its

back for the foreseeable future.

Jude: Yeah.

Leech: Yeah.

Like just, just watching the timelines
splinter, it's just like, oh no,

this is either we're introducing
X-Men or we're like, you know, I

don't know what's happening anymore.

Like any, literally
anything can happen now.

And I just, and that's great.

I'm here for it.

I'm down for the ride.

Trey: Yeah.

I think for me thinking about
what I liked about this season one

overall, despite it making it a
pain to do the most important topics.

I love that it was very dialogue driven.


I know there were some times where
I had my qualms or I was like, oh,

you know, I, I, it feels like we're
kind of retreading here or there.

Uh, from a previous episode, I still
like, I'm a sucker for those types

of storytelling where it's just, you
know, 1, 2, 3 people in a room just

having a conversation and it's engaging
and it keeps me glued to the screen.

And this show did that
frequently throughout the season.

And I don't think it's a
very, uh, Easy task to do.

Uh, so I do appreciate the
show, being able to do that.

And it kind of fits in what we've
talked about before with WandaVision

and Falcon in the winter soldier.

In that I almost don't want these
Disney plus shows to tackle big things.

Like I like these smaller stuff,
but as I feel that I also feel the

contradictory nature of it because
the entire MCU just got blown wide

open with the multi-verse stuff.

But there's something about this, the
way this show handled, those smaller

moments in our, let me rephrase that
the way this show handled those big

moments in a smaller way, like their
handle on the scale was a lot more

consistent for me throughout the season.



I really enjoyed that about it.

Jude: Yeah, you're right.

Like there was, it was very forgive
the phrase down to earth, you know?

I mean, just cause we followed
Loki like I felt like it was very

linear because you're just following
low-key all the way through.

But the, the scale that we got in
terms of ramifications was huge.

Trey: Yeah.

And it seemed like the show, no matter how
big the scale got always found a smart way

to pair it in an easily digestible way.

I think the best example is whenever
we first get introduced to the TVA at

all, uh, we talked about in episode
two, how brilliant it was that they

paired, Loki learning the ins and
outs of the TVA's, uh, workflow.

I can't think of a better word
right now, but he was being

quizzed by the other minute men.

And I thought that was just such a
brilliant way for them to introduce

those large concepts in a small way.

And they just did that throughout
the entirety of the season.

Leech: Yeah.

And that, that intro
video, that welcome video.

And, you know, what's kind
of fun about that too.

Is that, that video wasn't lying.

It just omitted some details.

But it was exactly what you
know, was said at the end.

Like, you know, things were crazy.

So we had to, you know, get the
timekeepers to straighten it up

pretty much the same story, but
omitting some pretty key details.

So that was kind of interesting.

It wasn't like this big grand lie
of whatever it was pretty true.


Trey: all builds to that
wonderful moment where he remains

does the, the amen singing it.

And it's like, ah, this
is where the bat is

Leech: stare in awe and
slap him when you did that.

I was confused.

Like, I didn't know how to feel.

It felt like this person was like,
had the most senior itis kind of

feeling of just like this, whatever.

I don't care.

I don't work here anymore.

I put, my two weeks are already like,
I'm done, I'm exhausted, but also kind

of this, like, you can't touch me.

And just the power behind just
that whole dialogue was insane.

Trey: You describing Kang with
senior-itis might be my new thing.

Oh, that's fantastic.

You know, I, I think that's a, a good
sample of the things that we liked

about Loki, but the next section that
we have for this is what are some of

the biggest disappointments of Loki.

And this time we can start with
me and, you know, it's funny.

I, I had a very hard time in this
section just because I know there was

moments throughout the episodes where
I was frustrated, but trying to pin

it down to like, oh, this is a biggest
disappointment part was, was hard for me.

What does disappoint me is the
speed at which the show set up and

then disregarded cool plot hooks.

So we had things like the
bombing of the timeline or the DB

Cooper thing, or the president.

Loki like all these felt
like such cool hooks.

And they came and went so quickly, which
given that this is like a, an ongoing

series, we only have six episodes and
this show had a lot on its agenda.

I understand it's not going to be able
to explore every nook and cranny, but

there were these, these, this feeling of
like, oh, I would've liked to have seen

a little bit more of that or not just
be a little bit throughout the season.

It was

Leech: the quantum leap misidrects
and that, I agree that that was

my biggest issue as well, that
there are these amazing hooks

and we just, it just went womp.

Like that was it.

There's your, there's your minute of it.

You technically, still got it, but
it wasn't how you thought at all.

And I'm, I'm, I'm disappointed,
but I'm okay with it because

if it's predictable, then.

You know, I, I can sit there
and try to predict it all day.

I did that in black widow and I hate who
I become sometimes when I watch Marvel

stuff, I'm like, oh man, they're going
to jump off the thing and do the stuff.

Nope, Nope.

I was totally wrong.


Well, I feel like a jerk and I'm just
talking to myself now, so it's okay.

I'm just here in my living room.

Thank God.

I'm not in a theater, but uh, I like that.

I, I try to do that and I feel like
I know it's coming and it's not,

and it surprises me still on it.

I both am disappointed that we didn't
see, like, I want him to see so much

more president Loki that it was just
that I was trying to figure out how

it was going to connect and it just
turned it into this, just a little

thing real fast, but it made sense.

And so it was just kind of
like mad, but you're right.

Not happy about it.

Jude: No, I understand that
feeling because I think for my

disappointment is very similar to that.

And it's a mix of like,
what were my expectations?

And it's interesting in the assemble
documentary, uh, the writer even

said in his pitch, he wanted to
not do the quantum leap thing.

And that's kind of what I was in a way
expecting, I think, and this is, is just

as much of a compliment, is it about
disappointment, but I was so disappointed.

And so much I didn't get to see.

And, and, and part of it is like
you said, you didn't get enough

President Loki we didn't get enough
of this, or or enough of that.

But I think part of that
feeling, well, that's something

I was really disappointed in.

It does a show how good a job
they didn't building out a world.

That was interesting, you know,
so sort of put a positive light on

that, but that was definitely, you
know, he listened to these episodes.

I got bogged down in the mechanics,
you know, and wait, you set up

the rules of your world is this.

And then you did that.

And that doesn't make sense.

You know, I think those were some
of my biggest disappointments,

Trey: you know, if I can throw one
more, that just came to me and it

stems from what you were talking about.

Judas framing it as like, um, almost a
compliment like, oh, this is a sign that,

you know, it was so well done that you
wanted more, I'm torn between if this

is what it is on this one, which is.

I wish we would have gotten
a little bit more of Sylvie.

I think Sylvie does have a
pretty consistent and great

arc throughout the show.

We, we traced her journey towards that
inability to let Kang go at the end.

But I think that moment
would have stood out more.

If we would have gotten a
little bit more origins on her.

Um, again, we're getting a second season.

I'm sure these are things that
would have been X that will be

explored in season two, but I wish
we got a little bit more here.

Leech: We still don't
know her nexus event.

Trey: You know, this is something that
Jude and I have been talking about.

How, how do you feel about that
theory that her nexus event was

that she was, was being selfless?

Leech: I think her nexus
event was encouraging piece.

Or, you know, like getting the idea that
like, you know, falling in love with the

idea of peace compared to like, you know,
um, I don't know what Thor played with

GI Joes or whatnot, but I mean, instead
of just like pew pew, and this is just

the way it is and I got to make daddy
proud, it really could have just been

like, you know, cause it was, I tried
to look a bit, it was like Valkyries and

ships and um, what's hell was dog's name.

Um, Hmm.


So, yeah, I can't remember, but I saw like
this Wolf figuring a very large one out

of proportion of the rest of the toys.

So I wasn't sure if it was like, you
know, this place where there is, you

know, in this, you know, universe,
there was peace with Hela and, you

know, cause we found out Odin had to,
you know, Odin went dark with hella

and they murdered like everyone.

Um, maybe, you know, maybe peace was
overall more promoted and maybe there

was a fine line between, you know,
if Loki went the Loki way and it

ended up ending up the way it had, it
should be and Ragnarok and whatnot,

or if Loki tilted towards more peace,
because that's just who Sylvie was.

And because it made it maybe
went more towards peace.



You're going to be peaceful.

All right.

We got to, it might be up right now.


I don't know.

I'm I'm very curious though, because
it has haunted her, her whole life.

So it couldn't have just been something
as simple as that, because that would

have been, I mean, she's a variant,
she knows there are multiples of

her multiple Loki's everywhere.

She would have gone down that list,
but maybe it's just dialing it down to

exactly what it was just haunts her.

Jude: Well, and it does make me
wonder, I mean, we're assuming

there was a nexus event.



The only why I say that is because
like at the end, you know, he said

he was looking for somebody, um,
he, who remains, was looking for

somebody to replace them, replace him.

And he's like, I came in the two of you.

And if he had the knowledge of all
the different scenarios, I don't

know if she needed the nexus of it.

Leech: Oh, I think that'd
piss her off even more.

Trey: Yeah.

Jude: Older for that, for that sake of
like hoping of, of, you know, finding

Leech: that right.

It's just, it's just going to be
easier to prune you as a child, and

then you're just gonna float around
and it just makes the paperwork a

lot easier to just do it like that.

That's the only reason we
stole you from your parents and

made you live in apocalypse.

Jude: Let's go back again, go
back to my getting bogged down

in the mechanics of the show.

If he knew everything that was
going to happen, he had to know

that she was going to escape,

Leech: but make that happen though,
because everything led toward

to per showing up at his door.

Jude: Yeah, he, remember, he said
it, I paved the road, you just walked

Trey: it.

And it would explain.

Cause we even talked about it.

Jude, whenever she escapes, everybody's
just kind of standing there.

So that would kind of
shed some light on that.

If that's, if there's like a decree
from on high of like, Hey, you

know, send this person on their way.


Which by the way, did a quick Google
search, the Wolf is named fin rear.

Oh, there you go.

Jude: Thank you.

Leech: I mean, he felt right,
honestly, it's like the bone

sticking out of the side.

That just, it just resonated fluffy.


Jude: we have a dog and
well, the dog has a name.

We have a variety of names and I'm sure
at some point Hela called the dog fluffy.

I'm sure

Trey: it's now canon yeah.

Jude: Oh

Trey: man.

Well moving into the next section.

It is a pretty easy question.

Did Loki work for you?

Uh, leech.

We're starting with you again this time.

How did it do?

Leech: I would say it did, um, The buildup
from end game and figuring out like what

happened to Loki and just having that
question answered, but not only answered.

And it was built upon, like this
whole thing was built upon that

as we find out in assembled,
it's like, that is crazy to me.

I feel like they're lying.


I feel like they have this
plan 30 years in advance.

I swear it's under lock and key
and the Disney vault, like there's

no way it was just this like,
oh, he's doing so good at Loki.

Let's just, let's just add to it a little
or just like throw this in a little and

then we'll, we'll build on it later.

There's no way I, it all
just, it all feels like this

grand plan and I, I loved it.

It worked for me.

It gave me what I wanted.

I wanted more Loki and I wanted, um,
more characters to fall in love with.

I wanted more female characters fall
in love with, um, And I got that.

And I also got this new baddie that is
going to, I feel like tie a lot of things

together and give us this next generation.

And I'm really excited for that.

And I love that, that that feeling,
it gave me, it gave me that like the,

you know, the, the kind of chills
you felt when the Avengers first

assembled, but I guess unofficially
because Steve didn't actually say it,

but, um, but, uh, when you had that
feeling, it's like, okay, here we go.

Like, that's kind of how this is felt.

It's this big ramp up and I'm okay
with it because it's delicious.

Trey: Awesome.

Well, dude, what about you?

Jude: Yes.


Trey: I've had very similar yeses in
one division and a flat out no, and

Falcon, so we know how to interpret yesss

Jude: okay.

Uh, I told friend Daniel, this,
I think this is of the three

Disney plus shows the best one.


I would say though, WandaVision still
my favorite, because I love the concept,

but in terms of like start to finish
once, once I'm able to step back and

watch the assembled show, I love the
Assembled documentaries because it

helps me kind of give some context
of getting to see the ideas and the

creators and what they were thinking.

Um, and, and cause I, I always find it
even if I don't like it or agree with it.

It's kind of like the ending
to how I Met Your Mother.

It was a terrible ending, but the
creators created exactly what they

wanted to create from the start and
for them to accomplish that and be able

to do that, I think is really cool.

And so from that standpoint,
start to finish work.

I think this is the best one.

So far of the Disney plus shows, um,
did it fully work for me in no only

in that I just, they, I kept getting
lost in the mechanics of the world.

And I think because of that,
I think it didn't work for me.

Um, and, and that's probably more,
not probably that's more my hangup.

And just me being me and what I took
out of it, then I think the show itself,

Trey: you know, I was thinking about it.

I've, one, I am genuinely shocked
that your answer was yes, I was.

I was curious to hear what it was going to
be in this, but, um, I was thinking about

how, as much as we've been talking about
that finale, being a setup for what's to

come, what's that going to be like for you
in the future with these, when these other

movies start delving into the multi-verse,
because this is where it feels like

the mechanics have been laid out.

Um, so yeah, it's good to hear that, yes,
this did work, but hopefully the mechanics

are something that gets ironed out as we
move forward through these iterations.

Well, or

Leech: even, you know, I think you
talked about this last episode,

they think it was brought up that.

You don't have to watch the shows.

You can just watch the
movies and I'll make sense.

So I'm really curious to know, like
the next movie, if it will make sense.

Trey: I, I don't know, like that's
the second time today that I've

heard that that's their aim for
these Disney plus shows to be

connected, but in consequential,
I don't know how you do that.

Especially after everything that's
happened in this Loki finale.

Um, we know, uh, because it's been
confirmed that Wanda will show up in Dr.

Strange multi-verse of madness.

Like there's just too much going on for
this, not to connect upwards as well.


Jude: Well, I will say that like,

I want them to be required viewing, like,
I think it, I think it was a benefit

to civil war, infinity war in game that
you had to have seen the other stuff.


You know, try and trying to take the, you
know, they had a brief scene in infinity

war where banner had the dialogue to
kind of get you caught up really quickly.

You know, like here's the cliff
notes of the infinity stones and

all that stuff, which we really
didn't need as an audience.

Uh, but you know, they, they made it work.

I I'm okay if it worked, if it, if
these connect to the others and it's,

and it's required viewing, um, and I,
I kind of hope it, it goes that way.

I'll be, I'll be really impressed
if they can find a way to make it

work without this being required.


Leech: I think the person that doesn't
like the casual Marvel viewer is

just kind of along for the ride and
they're not asking too many questions.

So I feel like if they just kind of get
that well, like it's a multi-verse okay.

That's like multiple universes okay.

Like, let's keep going.

Like, I feel like if they just get
enough, maybe it's like a quick

debrief or like we're walking rushedly
in the hallway and like, oh yeah.

It's the dah dah, dah, dah, dah.



We're all caught up.


Let's keep watching.

Like, if that's all it is, that
might be all they need, because

that is, that is my husband.

He's like, what's happening.

Oh, it's the thing with the stuff.



Let's keep going.

Like I don't, I don't care

Trey: wrong.

Isn't he?

The one, I think you told
me he watched in game.

Leech: He's retro chaotic viewer.

Um, he does that.

He does chaotic watches
and it blows my mind.

We recently played a video
game in creative mode.

It's like last night and he
just ran straight for the boss.

He didn't even think was like, okay.

Where's the boss.

I'm like, oh my gosh.


So he just is chaos.

Um, I

Jude: have

Trey: a cousin who may top this, they
went and saw black widow loved it.

I was talking to them about it.

They were all about it.

And it was really, really exciting.

They went and they saw it again
with her mom and their brother.

And they were like, oh, I stayed
for the, the end credits this

time, I can't believe she died.

And I was like, Wait, you've seen in game.


And she goes, no, I haven't
even seen infinity war.

She started with black widow and
that's how she found out that

Natasha died was through the , which
she forgot to watch the first time

Leech: then would that be
black widow then iron man 2

and like how would that

Trey: She somehow broke

Jude: the timeline?

How would

Leech: it be?

What would be the black widow order?

Oh, I'm so curious now.

Cause now I want you to suggest the
black widow order and then just like,

Jude: did she break timeline or
was this after last Wednesday's

episode after the threshold

Trey: yes, it actually was.

No, that's fantastic.


Jude: virtual we live in.

Ma'am stop.

Trey: You could see, I was
trying to get us out of that.

I'll say this.

She has, she has gone back
and started with iron man.

So she's working her way through, but I've
been tickled and waiting to share that.

Leech: That sounds, that sounds wild.

Did you go through that whole ride
and to be like, oh my gosh, she died.

Jude: Well, just imagine if
she never saw that and the

next black widow comes out and.

She's not in there and it's just
like, oh, okay, it's a recast.

Trey: So maybe, maybe we're
putting too much necessity in

these shows needing to effect.

Leech: If it's like, you want to know
more or you can go back and watch it.

You know, I kind of felt like that with
the chronological watch of these movies

and how there was a lot better context
to things instead of like guardians

of the galaxy, nothing makes sense.

And it's like, oh, you watch it in order.

Everything makes a lot more sense.

So, um,

Jude: well, and we hear stories
about people that watched,

uh, WandaVision oh, cool.

And then they go back and
start getting into it.


Leech: yeah, I think it really
like, it's one of those, if you

want to know more, you, you have
all the tools in front of you.

It's called Disney plus like there's
everything except for Spiderman,

um, and Hulk but that's okay.


Jude: wow.

Leech: Uh, but, uh, yeah, I, I feel like,

Jude: you know what, I'm really hoping.

What if episode number two focuses
solely on like whole incredible Hulk,

Trey: because I don't think, have we seen
any Hulk representation in the what-if

Jude: trailers?

I don't think so, but I just think what

Leech: if that second episode
would be great actually does

help super soldier serum.

And he just turns into
the new captain America.

So you never see Hulk
cause it's just Bruce.

And so instead of Steve
Rogers, you have Bruce banner.

Jude: Bruce

Leech: y'all want to hear about
quantum physics, finger guns.


I feel like he would just be like a big
nerd, but like a big nerd, like, okay.

Steve at least was humble.

I'm going to, I'm going to
go off on a tangent here.

Steve was humble and you know, he's Steve,
but I feel like Bruce, like if he got like

a six pack, I feel like he'd lean into it.

Trey: Listen, we almost know it's a, for a
fact he was dabbing in Avengers end game.

So you're spot on it.


Leech: I forgot how much
of a daddy was an end game.

Jude: Okay.

Leech: Wow.

I feel like, oh God.


So I just watched Avengers this morning.

I feel like he was very different
in Avengers versus end game.

I feel like, I feel like Ragnarok and
all that just changed him so much.

Trey: I'm sure a massive
amount of time with the grand

masters going to do that too.

Jude: Yeah.

Trey: Well getting back to the episode,
uh, I think I it's left to me to answer if

Loki worked for me and to put it simply.


Uh, I know there were a lot of rabbit
holes that I kept falling down through.

Uh, but as a whole, I liked Loki a lot.

Um, you know, I, I started to
talk about this a little bit last

week, but we just ran out of time.

I, I wanted to mention that the
thing that I kept coming back to

WandaVision and Falcon and the winter
soldier, was this feeling that.

The story wasn't complete.

And so there's a part of me
that feels a little hypocritical

that I'm here with Loki.

We're literally, we know the story
isn't complete and it's working for me.

And it made me reflect that knowing
we're getting a season two, help to

alleviate a lot of those problems
that I had in one division and Falcon,

like I know that those characters will
pop up in other movies, but there's

something different about knowing we're
coming back to the same space, the

same characters and continuing these
storylines that just made me excited

to ponder on the stuff that came in
season one, ponder what comes next.

And I don't know, I liked that a lot.

And the other thing is I
think this show is also.

With, you know, we said earlier, it had
this agenda that it needed to set up

this multi-verse and he who remains.

And I think it, it, it had a
delicate balance between paying, I

guess, homage to the infinity saga
while setting up this would, I'm

going to call the multi-verse saga.

And I think it handled
that really well, too.

Um, you know, I mentioned earlier
the, the way that this show played

with power scales, it worked for me.

So yeah, that that's, that's what lends
to my, yes, Loki worked for me answers.

Leech: It's weird.

I definitely had the like it's limited
series for WandaVision that like stress

of like, how's this going to end?

I was just going to wrap up
and I definitely had that

Falcon and the Winter soldier.

It's like, when's he
going to get the shield?

Like, come on now.

Like it's gonna happen.

It's just a matter of if he's
going to get the serum or not.

That's all we're here for.

And I was waiting and waiting, waiting,
but this show, I felt like it was just

so everywhere in a good way, like,
just because of the time concept.

And they just kept bouncing that.

I didn't really question if there
is a second season until the last

episode where I'm just like, why are
we introducing a brand new character?

This is making a sense.

And you kind of going off of that.

And then they revealed at the end.

There'll be a second season.

Jude: Well, I think also we didn't
have anything really to look forward.

I mean, that sounds bad.


Trey: so did this show work for, you

Jude: know what I mean?

But what I mean by that is we knew Sam was
going to become Cap and get the shield.

Right, right.

Like what, like, how are
we gonna wrap this up?

You know, WandaVision limited series, and
I don't think it was ever it wasn't sure.

Is this a limited series?

Is it not?

Loki's not getting, you know, does he
get his horns like, like you don't, you

don't know what the end is going to be.

And so I think that had
kind of an advantage.


Also I think the show worked better
because it felt like a TV series,

a limited, uh, mini series rather
than a movie chopped into six

Leech: parts.


I was going to bring that up because
watching it today, it definitely had

the beginning and the end of each
episode, it did not just keep flowing.

It did not pick up the second it left off.

And that was, it felt like it
did when he had to wait a week.

But watching them back to back
that was it cut off, done.

It had that mic drop at every episode.



Trey: And I think on an individual episode
level, this series had a very strong

handling of a character story circle.

Um, I don't know if it ever
made the recording of a podcast,

but that was something that we
talked about, Jude, where yes.

Maybe we may not be fully on board.

It was very early on in the season.

We may not be fully on board with
the mechanics of the show, but one

thing I do appreciate is these writers
taking a character and bringing

them through the process of, uh,
of a change by an episodes end.

And the thing that I think.

This show also handled well, because we,
we talked about it in our Daredevil runs.

Um, you know, not only do you have
to complete a story circle for an

episode, you also have to complete
a story circle for the season.

So you can't ever fully close
it at the end of an episode.

And I think this show
handled that as well.

So, yeah.

Well with that being said, I think we
can move into the next section, which

is what was our favorite episode?

So Jude starting with you this time,
what was your favorite episode?

Jude: The finale.

So this had, for me, this kind of had
that AB cadence that we talked about a

nerd Daredevil, um, and, and it wasn't
full AB, but it's like, you would.

How do I explain it?

We had went through the pie that
we called filler episodes, and

that was kind of unfair episodes.


I mean, it was kind of unfair
to call them filler, um,

because it was dialogue driven.

You learned a lot about the characters,
they learn a lot about themselves and

this finale don't, you got to see the
fruition of all of those, those they had

with each other, those conversations.

And, um, Jonathan majors
was fantastic, you know?

And so, so I think that's
what made this episode.

My favorite is getting to see the,
the change in a real, a real way.

Like, oh, this is.

Th this is how it impacted them
and kind of follow through on that.

So, so that's the things I
liked the most about the finale.

Trey: Yeah.

I think adding Jonathan majors
is a huge buff to any episode.


100% get that.

But what about you Leech?

What was your favorite episode?

Leech: I'd have to say the first one,
because it was the most impactful

cause I had no idea what I was getting
into, you know, with this show.

I, you know, I thought it was going
to be a romp through space and time.

And then you have this like very
humbling moment at the end of it.

And also if anyone's got any free time,
watch Avengers, then watch the first

episode because seeing the transition
of iron man totally burning him and

then Hulk whipping them and calling
him a puny God, and then getting picked

up, like thinking you're out like,
oh, like I took completely failed this

hostile takeover and I suck times two

now this is the second time I failed.

And then getting swept away thinking
you've you've escaped for the

millionth time as you always do.

And then to be told no.

You have not, and you are the most
insignificant speck of dirt on my shoe.

Like him going through all of that in
a span of like a few hours and kind

of like having that impact compared
to just like, okay, look, he's out.

Let's watch.

Loki like having that back to back.

And then the whole, like gravity of the
infinity stones at the end of episode,

one, just like, oh yeah, we, some of
the guys use those as paperweights.

Like just, it was a very powerful moment.

And I feel like that just
resonated with me a lot.

And that's why episode one is my favorite.

Jude: You know what, I bet you,
there's someone out there that took the

Avengers and edited in, like it took
the original Avengers movie and then

did the proper editing with Endgame and.

The episode one and just
made that flow naturally.

That would be

Trey: amazing.

And I want it

Leech: that hard.

I wouldn't, it would just be a
little adding some end game stuff.



Cause that's another thing.


Where does, where does Loki sit
on the timeline on the Chronicle

on a chronological watch?

Is it right after end game?

Is it when it aired?

Like it's so confusing to explain
that to people that are just kind

of interested in Marvel, it's like,
well, pushes nose up on glasses or,

Jude: yeah.

So when my wife sat down to
watch this episode, And it

starts with the in game stuff.

And she's like, Hey, wait, pause.

And I paused it.

And she's like, so when within
the timeline does this take place?

And I just started laughing, I was
like, let's watch the episode first.

Leech: Do we plan on getting to bed
at a reasonable hour this evening?

Trey: See, this is what you have to do.

Now you have to watch
in game on one screen.

And then as soon as that split
happens, you have to pull up another

screen and start watching Loki.

And now you're watching
two screens at once.

And by the time you get to Dr.

Strange and the multi-verse of madness,
you're going to have like six screens

just going on watching so many Marvel

Leech: joking, but I would not
be surprised at all, if that

was a way of watching, what's
going to be happening next.

Like, okay.

I'll, I'll, I'll take that bait.

What if Wanda hears her children
because of the multi-verse

because everything's done

Jude: that's I think that's
been confirmed, right?

Leech: Has it been.


Trey: that'd be lovely.

I don't know if it's been confirmed, but
I know people have been talking about

the way Loki and one division sync up.

But I

Jude: haven't had the two finales sync up.

Leech: Yeah, yeah.

Sitting in front of like 10 screens
and all of a sudden, like this

show ends or is about to end.

And like that one starts popping
up and like, you know, it's like it

happening in tandem and like, oh, this
one pops up and happens in tandem.

Like, oh man, if I had a million dollars.

That's apparently what
my priority would be.

Jude: It's it's, it's basically,
we're talking about like the

NFL Sunday ticket, right?

Like that was the idea to watch all the
games simultaneously on multiple screens.

All we wanted to just to watch
all the Marvel content synced

up at the same time, someone

Leech: will make it somewhat.

Someone on Reddit has
probably already made it.

Trey: Well, people sync up
movies to happen at at like,

people want Tony to snap right.

At midnight, new years somebody.

Jude: Oh

Leech: yeah.

Oh yeah.


I'm going to look it up.

I'm very curious because I
think that'd be really fun.

Jude: So let's see.

So leech episode, one's your favorite?


Trey: My favorite episode,
trying to go, yes.

I'm going to go all the way back to
Falcon and the winter soldier episode six.


Uh, my favorite episode is episode two.

Uh, you know, I talked about how I
love this series handle and the story

circle, both the in episode one and
the season story circle as well.

Episode two, I think was incredibly
beautiful because Leech you talked about

how he stripped Loki of everything.

This was a broken man coming into
episode two, and I like that they take

him from finding purpose, kind of still
trying to find his way out of this, but

then genuinely being proud of the work
that he was accomplishing with Mobius

and then bringing him back again to.

Uh, following Sylvie into that time
portal, like, it was just a beautiful

circle of his journey within one
episode that I absolutely loved.

And as much as I enjoyed the chemistry
between Mobius and Loki I think this

was their strongest episode together.

Like there was a lot more cathartic
moments towards the end, but as

far as how well they work together,
episode two, um, was the one for me.

And it was one of the ones I think,
outside the finale, just because

of the larger impacts of the MCU
that, that is setting up episode

two, I think is one of the ones
that I came out of the most excited.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, you know what, and that makes sense.

Cause like, for me, I liked episode two
a lot, and it was that episode where

at the end of the first episode, I
remember saying like, depending on how.

Predestination freewill.

I might not like the show.

And then season, episode does season
two, episode two got me sucked in, right.

Like, okay.

I bought it.

Uh, and then I had my problems and
went back and forth and it felt like

the finale and actually the second
to last episode and the finale

together, both kind of had me in.


And so that, so that makes complete
sense of, of, of why you'd go to,

Trey: yeah.

It was really hard to not have a favorite
on any of them, because I was also torn

between four, but I think two, one out in

Leech: the end two, two was really fun
too, because he was just like, I'm lucky.

I'm like super cool and magical.

And everyone's like, I don't care.

Why are you talking to me?

And I, that was just really fun to see it.

For me, it didn't, it kind of
just came off like, oh, he's,

he's playing, Loki's being lucky.


But going from again, Avengers,
episode one, and then into two,

he's just so insecure at this point.

He's so horribly insecure and
it's just not him being, you

know, tropey Loki it's, it's true.

It's a very insecure,

Trey: I see a plan.

And in that plan, I see myself

Jude: purpose.

Trey: That's fantastic.

Well, I think that's a good summation
of our feelings on season one of Loki.

Um, but before we end this, Leech we
wanted to do something fun, which is

kind of go through the MCU overall and
pick some potential pruning scenarios

in all of the previous movies.

So do you have any.


Leech: so I really wanted to think of
a lot for like one, for each character,

but it turned out, it was like, I
tried to get out of the whole, like,

instead of them dying, they lived,
or instead of them living, they died.

Like I tried to get away from that
and go into like smaller little

things that could have happened.

Like those butterfly effect things.

Um, so, um, it would have been
interesting if, uh, pepper.



Um, if pepper just straight up quit, like
Pepper, just like, no, I'm not going back.

This is an abusive relationship.

This isn't banter and I'm out.

And so that, I think that would have had
some pretty ridiculous ripple effects.


Um, that was, that was
when I was like, oh cool.

Nobody died in that one king king to
Chaco was my big, like what if he lived?

Um, that one would have been very
interesting because there were a

lot of things that happened after,
you know, to establish black

Panther, um, after that death.

And so that one, I think was my big, like,
okay, I'm not letting this one's slide.

This is the one that's like,
you know, lives or dies.

Like this is the one I think
would be the most impactful.

What was another one?

Let's see.

Oh, banner doesn't accept.

Natasha's offer to join the Avengers.

And he just, he's just
like, you're ridiculous.

I will kill you.

Get out of my, get out of my face and
cause he could have, um, and just been

like, I'm here and I'm working in medicine
and now I have to run again and it's

all your fault and I'm irritated and
I'm out like that could have been it.

And then we would have had a lovely
banner movie with the right actor for it.

It's fine.

We just really would like another
whole movie I've been waiting.


Jude: the bitterness that you have in your
voice, when you say that I was working a

Trey: lot of hot takes, I

Leech: would, I would honestly
love, um, love another one.

I know we're getting She-Hulk
and that's going to be amazing.



Jude: isn't Ruffalo's
supposed to show up in that.


I don't know.

Leech: That'd be really cool.

I think so

Jude: it's such a good job.


Leech: Oh, so this one, um,
if Coulson lived but I guess

that's what agents of shield is.

So it's okay.

That Colson died.

Trey: Wow.

Leech: I've just got a lot of beef with
agents of shield because after watching

Loki and there being like a couple of
things that some people are tying to

shield and then watching black widow,
and there are also a couple of things

that potentially tie into shield.

I'm just so mad because like,
no shield is, it is not Canon.

I refuse.

It makes no sense.

This whole thing's a fever.


Coulson is stuck in a computer somewhere.

They're poking through his brain.

Like that's the only thing I that's like.

That's not a spoiler.

That's just me.

Just see, I'm trying to make
it make sense in my head.

And it's painful

Jude: now, after this finale of
Loki, your scenario is possible.

Leech: All scenarios are
possible in the multi-verse.

Jude: That's right.

And you say so somewhere, maybe that's
the, maybe that's maybe that's the pitch.

Kevin Feige super fan.

Our pitch is that Colson and Agents of
shield was a fever dream while we were

poking and prodding his brain and some
aim, advanced idea, mechanics, lab.


Trey: That's going to happen.

You put it out there in the ether.

It's going to become a reality.


Leech: everything we're in the
safe space, everything MCU.

And does agents of shield count as MCU?

Are we, okay.

I'm not asking about Canon.

I'm saying, can I put a sport?

Can I say a spoiler shield?




Ask, um, they actually did touch
upon that in the last season.

Like, Hey Coulson what
if he actually did die?

And this is all fever dream dream
and you're still on the table and

you're like, you're just dying
in this all is a big fantasy.

And they said that and I'm just
like, how dare you say that

and not make that the actual

Jude: case.

No, you have

Leech: to go double down and say,
no, this is extra, extra real.

I'm like

Trey: no, you haven't.

It's almost like playing with someone's
concept of reality is really rude.

Wow I couldn't imagine.

Leech: Yeah,

Jude: No it's a simulation
that you're in Treyy.


Leech: Okay.

It just means it's a really
good simulation, right?

Aside from the random beeps.

We'll we'll get Terry to,
in it to fix that out.

It's fine.

Jude: Oh

Trey: man.

Well, with the infinite possibilities
of a multi-verse dude, what are

some of your possible pruning

Jude: scenarios?

Uh, for some reason I kept circling
back to this idea that Doctor strange

didn't get in a car wreck Mordo
became the sorcerer Supreme just

cause he was so, you know, rigid.

About the laws of nature
and stuff like that.

That is something I definitely,
because I mean, think about it.

Like he would not have studied it
up and you known how to use the

time stone in reverse all that
and go bargain with Dormamuu.

So that definitely would've changed
things so that I kept circling

back to, I kept circling back to.

Ant-Man and what if the
mouse didn't free him

Leech: when he did?

Oh my gosh.

I saw somewhere that someone wondered
if the TV was just sitting there pruning

mice, like there was just like this one
department or on the mice department

and this one didn't hit the button.



No, uh, Nope, no, like there's
like that very lowly basement

apartment with the flickering light.

Like that's what their job

Trey: is.

Well, I was going to say, you
were talking about how the, the

TVA might be compartmentalized
and they have different sections.

It's somewhere out there is a void
specifically for those mice got

Jude: there.

And then I think the other one that
I would love to have seen happen

would be, oh, what's his name now?

Um, I don't remember his name in
the show or in, and, um, Civil

war, uh, the Jim rash, no, Jim rash
actually being Dean from Greendale.

Oh my civil war.

Like, like I just feel like
that alternative universe.

And that would be definitely something
that gets pruned him out of there.

But I would love to have like, just
that as a one-shot of it actually being

Dean Pelton and the TVA showing up.

Trey: Hey, I mean, Greendale,
infiltrating, the MCU seems possible.

We've got Yvette, Nicole Brown.

We've got Danny Pudi.

We've got Jim rash, Donald Glover,
technically, even though I don't count it

as a community cameo, but it's happening.

Jude: Yeah.

So, so like that would be, that would
be fun for me or, and this is just

me being bitter prove Ralph boner
and give us Quicksilver, but, okay.

Leech: How about Quicksilver?

Ended up getting Wanda's powers and
then Wanda got Quicksilver's powers

and how, would everything have turned
out if they had different, if they

had each other because they're twins.

So apparently it was interchangeable.

You know, like if anything
could happen, if there's an

alligator, Loki it can happen.

So what would have
unraveled because of that?

Trey: Hmm.

This is just making me that
much more excited for what

Leech: so excited for what if, because
it's animation, you can do anything.

Trey: So for me, I think some of the
potential pruning scenarios that I

would have liked to have seen it.

I mentioned this in the discord, but
I'll say it here in the podcast, infinity

war had the moment where banner couldn't
transform into the Hulk would have loved

to have seen a scenario where he did
transform into the Hulk and then watch the

TVA have to deal with a rampaging hole.

Jude: They just need to go finish the
visual effects, apparently they shot.

They just go finish the visual
effects and give it to them.

Trey: Yeah.

So they seem capable of doing that.

I think so another fun pruning moment,
I think would have been in guardians of

the galaxy two where Nebula bites into
the Yaro root, but it actually is ripe.

So she never has that point of learning to
be better because she wasn't proven wrong.

So that would have been funny
to see the cascading effects.

Leech: I mean, you miss
you're five minutes late.

And your variants.

So it's, I don't need to
do another view watch.

All right.

I'll hit you guys up in like
a week, prepare your DMS.

Uh, man.

And I'm, I'm very curious though.

Cause if we're, if we're really like,
Loki just blew it all open, like it's,

you know, butterfly effect upon butterfly
effect upon butterfly effect it, literally

anything could happen at this point,
cause nothing has to has an end purpose.

Who knows?


Trey: I think that tees up perfectly
for my last one, which I think

is a bit bizarre, but Hey, in a

Leech: multi-verse potential

Trey: in Spider-Man homecoming when
Ned discovers that Peter is Spiderman,

he is, has a barrage of questions.

One of which is.

Can I get bit by the spider and
Peter tells him the spider's dead.

I would have liked to have seen a
scenario where the spiders not dead

and watch their hi-jinks as they try to
get Ned bit to creating a spider net.

Oh my gosh, I

Jude: need it.

Oh my God.

Well then that would give him the
opportunity to go bad and become

the hobgoblin, which I think he is.



Trey: I didn't know.

This was the theories
upon theories upon theory.

Oh man.

Well, I think that's going
to do it for this episode.

Leech as always.

It has been an absolute delight
having you on and I want to

say thank you for joining us.

Leech: As always a blast.

And I just, my mind's racing now.

And I'm so sorry.

Cause I'm probably going to
be texting you all night.

Like, oh, I'm out.

I'm halfway through iron man
right now and there's no.

Oh no, this was a blast.

I really have a lot of fun with you too.

Jude: Yeah, thank you for coming on.

Trey: And of course, if you want
to keep up with leech and all the

things they do, you can find them
at and Twitter, which of course we

will link in the show notes as well.

Now, if you have any comments or
questions about this episode, you can

always reach us at MC you need to know
on Twitter and Instagram, or if you'd

like to join our discord, you can find a
link to that in the show notes as well.

We'd love to have you lovely
community of people who are just

as excited about the MCU as we are.

Jude: Uh, yes.

When you're on the discord, make
sure you go to the role assign and

click on the emoji so you can have
access to the spoiler channels.

You'll find me Trey, Leech, you find a lot
of us there having these conversations.

I think I watched the finale at
2:00 AM and people were already

talking, so yes, very fun community.

So please make sure to do that.

And of course, make sure you follow us
on wherever you get your podcast and the

best thing you can do for us to share

Trey: with a friend.


We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for
the use of our theme song, which is

his rendition of the Avengers theme.

You can find more of his work
on his SoundCloud, which is

linked in the show notes as well.

Well, that's going to do it.

Thank you so much for listening
and Jude and Leech, thank

you so much for doing this.

We'll see you all next

Jude: week.

Trey: It's thoroughly enjoyable, but
it's pretty much the same, not one note.

Same style.

Leech: Yeah.

And meet then that thing was just me
being picky about the, like, as a viewer

being picky and they addressed it.

Like, yeah, there we go.

That's why I'm here.

Trey: What was that?

There was like a little
beep I didn't hear it.


It might be on mine.

Leech: Was it the backup of
a truck or what was that?

Jude: No, come on.



Leech: Wow.

But you were just like,
oh, he's stabbed me.

Trey: Well, I'm going
to be completely honest.

I think I've shown both of you at
this point, a picture I've taken of

my new captain America, Funko pop.

I've been very hesitant to share
it anywhere because I know at

some point there's going to be

Leech: truck misleading with some
hot wheels, photos, like bring it on

Jude: I'm loaded and ready.


Trey: know you are.


All right.

Is there anything we need
to go over before we,

Jude: uh, get you to keep
on trucking bumper sticker?

Leech: Just send it and don't say
you're sending it slip or a note or

anything with it to just have it appear.

Trey: Well, we'll start a
tradition of sending each other

gifts, but never gets from us.