Growth Mavericks

In this episode of Growth Mavericks, host Adam Callinan, founder of Pentane
— the Command Center for eCommerce profitability — sits down with Mark L. Fox, an aerospace engineer turned entrepreneur and health-tech innovator.
Mark shares his journey from Cocoa Beach, working on the Space Shuttle program, to pioneering energy therapy and heart rate variability (HRV) technology for healing PTSD, chronic pain, and stress. He discusses lessons from NASA, the realities of startup marketing, and how innovation, adaptability, and a 10x markup mindset shape business success.
Together, Adam and Mark explore the science of energy exchange, entrepreneurship under constraint, and the magic of turning complex ideas into real-world impact. From engineering rockets to re-engineering the human body, this is a masterclass in curiosity, resilience, and creative thinking.
👉 Learn more about Mark’s work at Resona Health
and grab his book What on Earth Are We Doing to Our Health?
👉 Learn more about Pentane’s real-time profit intelligence platform at www.pentane.com

💡 Key Takeaways
  • Mark’s transition from aerospace engineering to health technology shows how curiosity drives innovation.
  • The Space Shuttle program taught him adaptability, leadership, and systems thinking.
  • Debunking moon-landing conspiracies shows how public perception shapes science.
  • Entrepreneurship demands a 10x markup, compelling content, and strategic partnerships.
  • Heart rate variability (HRV) is a vital metric for resilience and recovery.
  • Energy therapy demonstrates the future of healing through frequency and biology.
  • Bootstrapping teaches financial discipline and creative problem solving.
  • Marketing and storytelling remain as critical as product innovation.
  • Resona Health’s devices are helping veterans and civilians manage PTSD, stress, and pain.
  • Building under constraints creates more durable and mission-driven companies.
⏱️ Chapters
00:00 – From Cocoa Beach to Aerospace Engineering
 05:29 – Working on the Space Shuttle and NASA Contracts
 11:05 – The Power of Marketing and the 10x Rule
 17:07 – Transitioning from Aerospace to Health Tech
 25:56 – Overcoming Adversity and Bootstrapping a Startup
 33:48 – The Science Behind Energy Therapy
 47:48 – Managing Stress and Heart Rate Variability

🔥 Sound Bites
“I never wanted to get into rockets at all.”
 “You have to have a 10X markup.”
 “You can’t make some of this stuff up.”
🎧 Listen to more episodes of Growth Mavericks:
www.growthmaverickspodcast.com

Creators and Guests

Host
Adam Callinan
Adam Callinan is the founder of Pentane, a financial and advertising command center that empowers brands to drive predictable revenue and intentional profit. Previously, Adam co-founded BottleKeeper, a bootstrapped consumer brand that scaled to $8M in sales within three years – without employees – and was later acquired in 2021 as an eight-figure business with a team of four, marking Adam's second successful exit.

What is Growth Mavericks?

This podcast dives deep into the tactical moves that drive business success, as well as the mental and physical resilience required to sustain it.

Hosted by Adam Callinan, a seasoned entrepreneur with multiple exits, an avid outdoorsman, and an family man with crystal-clear priorities, each episode unpacks real-world challenges, actionable insights, and the mental and physical disciplines that fuel long-term personal and professional growth.

Whether you’re scaling a startup or refining your mindset, disrupting your default is how business and life strike a balance.

Mark L. Fox (00:09)
Cocoa Beach Florida which I grew up here but I was born in San Diego but I lived lived in Utah and Alabama and Tennessee and lots of different places but I'm back actually weirdly enough back in the house I grew up in which I mean to do but it never it was never out of the family and just when my dad died in 2010 the market sucked and they're like I didn't want to get rid of it and it's two blocks from the beach so I'm just like I'll just bought it from my sister

Adam Callinan (00:24)
Wow.

Amazing. I understand that you spent some time in the military. Did that kind of take you around?

Mark L. Fox (00:43)
No, actually aerospace did. So I worked on the space shuttle programs. it's kind of funny. I'm a chemical engineer as my undergraduate. Me and my best friend, he's a nuclear physicist. And when we graduated college, we were hanging drywall for $3.50 an hour. And I'm like, OK, this sucks. This is not fun. Because nobody was hiring anyone in 1983. Had to be old enough to remember. But it was like,

Adam Callinan (01:06)
Yeah.

Mark L. Fox (01:07)
So then somebody came along and I never wanted to get into rockets at all. Just my dad was into rockets and I've grown up here in the space coast. It's just, it's not what I wanted to do. But somebody goes, hey, you know, this company's hiring out there. They won the space shuttle processing contract. So I go, okay. So I gave him my resume and they called me and they go, come in for me and interview him. when? I go now.

I'm gonna take a shower, right? I tell you thing, I'm working drywall and they're like, get here when you can. So I walk in, I'm waiting, I got a suit on, I'm for a whole bunch of hard questions about stuff and I don't really know a whole lot about rockets and the guy, he hands me a trifold brochure and this is the most malicious compliance I've ever seen in my life. He goes, Morton thigh call, we make it solid rocket motor, specially chemicals and salt, like Morton salt. It pays $12.14 an hour. I go, what am I gonna?

What am I gonna do? And he opens a manila folder with my resume stapled and he runs his finger down. He goes, you're an engineer, right? I go, yeah. He goes, how the hell do I know engineering shit? I'm like, what does that mean? He goes, you want the job or not? go, yeah. go, when do I start? He goes, now. Go over there. I'm like, okay. And they sat me over at a desk and was like, so what I learned later on was it was a cost plus contract. So they had slots from the government for 80 engineers.

Adam Callinan (02:07)
Okay

Mark L. Fox (02:26)
And this guy ahead of HR was told, don't care how dumb they are, as long as they get a heartbeat, they got an engineering degree, you hire them, we'll fire them later.

like 16 years so but that's what moved me around was I worked on the solid rocket boosters after Challenger happened Utah is where they manufactured them so I moved to Utah to work on the redesign of the boosters that's the first thing that started moving me around

Adam Callinan (02:50)
I too am a nerd of the sciences. My degree was molecular and cellular biology. I took a ton of physics and math and chemistry and all that stuff. And I too have like your plastering positions out of college, have never used it outside of applying the scientific method to business. So, but I have to ask, when you got through that first, like you're basically here to fill a role cost plus so we don't lose our contract dollars.

What was the first thing they actually had you do engineering wise?

Mark L. Fox (03:18)
They had, so the solid rocket boosters were, people, it's pretty simple, but most people don't know rockets, so I'll explain it real quick. The solid rocket booster has the fuel in it, right? It's a solid fuel. The liquid engines, the external tank, they don't have any fuel until they're on the launch pad and then they're fueled hours before the flight, right? So NASA figured out, hey, if we drop one of these in the VAB, we're gonna kill 20,000 people, why don't we?

build some new facilities on the swamp and we only need like 50 guys out there or 100 and if they drop it out there, we kill 50 or 100, not the whole building. So that was the building that we building when I got hired. The guy I was working for, I worked there for like 10 days and they reassigned him somewhere and who's in charge now? I go, you, guess. So nobody officially told me I was, but I just said, all right, so I guess I'm in charge. And then like eight months later, like who the hell is this 22 year old kid? Why is he running it?

left. that was the first job I got by default is they didn't hand that off very well so it was called the RPSF four letter acronym.

Adam Callinan (04:17)
Amen.

Mark L. Fox (04:21)
It was a building to be able to, the segments would come, they'd come in four pieces and it came from Utah where they're manufactured and then we have to process them and get them off a rail car horizontally to move them vertically to stack them so you can fly the shuttle. So that was my first job that was site management, I quote, wasn't using my engineering degree, but you're, and I tell everyone this, right? I can tell my great niece, I just want you to go to college and I care what you major in. Just it teaches you how to think and be social.

and present stuff. So that was, that's what I keep telling people is just go do that. Anyway, was my first job dance.

Adam Callinan (04:59)
That's amazing. Talk about getting thrown into the fire. That's.

Mark L. Fox (05:03)
Yeah, I it's like, I'll

lead into this, because you said rabbit holes earlier, because this is, you know, I get asked this all the time. Do we really land on the moon? Now I've learned from presenting so much that it's about 1 to 2 % of the population thinks you never land on the moon, maybe as much as three. And I can tell who it is in the audience by their reaction when the question gets asked, by their body language, right? So I go, they'll go prove it. go, can you prove you were born?

They're yeah, of course I am, I'm here. That doesn't mean you're born. Well, I got a birth certificate. So what? That's a fake piece of paper. Can you prove you're born? Well, so no, you can't prove we land on the moon. But here's the analogy I use. The data that I use. When I was young, same time frame, it was in the same year that I first worked there. They're like, we need a volunteer to be a trash man because the VAB has so much garbage in it that...

We need some, so I volunteered, right? I'm like, I'll do it. I'm trying to get recognition. So this is how old I am, dude. Had to go find microfish. Okay. Most of there's not even going know what the hell that is. Had to go find microfish to look up part numbers. Like what is this stuff? This is the largest building in the world, cubic foot wise. It's the largest building in the world. So there was so much ground support equipment, aluminum, copper, stands, know, stairs, things to hold pieces and parts.

Adam Callinan (06:05)
you

Mark L. Fox (06:25)
that you could possibly imagine. So I spent about three weeks surveying this and I came back to NASA said, it will take me over 10 years to survey this, maybe 20. There's so much copper and aluminum and just spare parts, right? So I went to NASA, I said, instead of putting a bid out for a vendor to clean up the building, reverse the bid and have a vendor pay for the privilege to clean it up.

Adam Callinan (06:26)
you

Mark L. Fox (06:54)
because they'll make so much money off the scrap aluminum and copper. Adam, it took me 18 months to get that approved because NASA could never figure out how to take money from a vendor. They're like, that's not what we do. We pay vendors. I'm like, right. So I finally got that approved, took a year and a half, and I have no idea how much that, I think the company bid six million to get the contract. They probably made 150 million because they just hauled semis for years out of that building.

Adam Callinan (07:03)
Yeah.

Cheers.

Mark L. Fox (07:24)
So, my point to all that, if we didn't land on the moon, who is smart enough in the 60s and 70s to build billions of dollars with the ground support equipment for some kid to find in 1984, right? There's just no logical, rational way. That's my argument about how we had to.

Adam Callinan (07:43)
It's amazing that we have to argue about that. Or that, let me rephrase that, that you have to argue about that. That's like a thing that comes up. Do they ask you if the earth is flat too? Is that part of the combo?

Mark L. Fox (07:54)
It often is. So the Flat Earth Society, last time I checked, I don't check anymore because it makes me throw up, was 200,000 people 15 years ago. 200,000 still believe the Earth is flat. Dang it. We knew it'd go down a rabbit hole when we started early, dude.

Adam Callinan (07:56)
Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, that's part of the fun. That's where all the good stuff is. So you were you were there at NASA you said for 16 years, 18 years.

Mark L. Fox (08:19)
I worked for Morton, because this always, I always to clarify this is I didn't work for NASA, which almost nobody does. Okay, the majority of people are contractors, NASA doesn't build anything. They contract stuff out to build it. Okay, so I worked for Morton, call for about 16 years.

Adam Callinan (08:30)
Yeah, it's probably true.

Okay, what happened when you left that? Was it opportunity based or did they close a division or how'd that work?

Mark L. Fox (08:42)
It's gonna be the opposite probably what you think and that's interesting because I hardly ever get answered that question is I was offered a huge promotion and I knew if I took it I would never do anything else in my life. Right, because you get sucked in at that point I was 32 years old. was the youngest chief engineer in the space shuttle program at 31 so this is 32 or 33 they offered me a huge position. like man if I take that which I loved working on.

program parts of it, and you know it's very rewarding when you see a launch and all that stuff, but they're so slow to change and do things that are different. So at that point, they didn't get the answer they expected, and of course they thought I'd accept the job, and like, I'm gonna go try something else. So I moved to Parker-Hannifin, which makes aircraft parts, actuators and stuff, which wasn't much different than the government, because Boeing.

Adam Callinan (09:36)
Yeah, I bet.

Mark L. Fox (09:38)
the contractor and they're almost as bureaucratic. And then if you can remember a zip drive, you're not old enough, but back in like 90. Okay. Uh, so in that same city in Ogden, Utah is I omega. that, so it was kind of interesting. So I got hired in charge of the internet, some weird thing they'd never heard of, right. And call centers. I literally like an idiot go, what's a call center? I didn't even know what

Adam Callinan (09:45)
I am.

Mm-hmm.

Mark L. Fox (10:07)
I didn't realize when you called a company, wasn't a company you were talking to. didn't know it was call centers, right? So I ended up doing that, which that part was cool about the internet because it was the wild west, right? Is nobody knows what they're doing. Everybody jokes about this, but ISO 9,001 certification, all that stuff, right? So they come in and go, you need all these procedures and this, that, and I go, we don't have any of that. So I literally wrote this on a bazooka bubble gum wrapper that said,

Adam Callinan (10:19)
Mm-hmm.

Mark L. Fox (10:35)
Procedure 1001 this is the internet and we don't have any yet And I handed to the inspectors and they laughed again. That's not funny. Where's your procedure? That's seriously this is it And my boss is over in the background going we're gonna kill you. I was like, no, there are no procedures This is the internet. We're making it up. Nobody knows what they're doing and we're just trying stuff, right? and I said I Had to make an argument right because they're gonna fail us for me being a smartass. I'm like, nope

ISO says you have to have a procedure and you gotta follow it. It doesn't say you have to make anything good. Here's an example. I can have a company that makes light bulbs and our procedure is to make sure they never last more than 20 hours so you buy more light bulbs. And I got a quality control system to make sure they break at 20 hours. You can still certify ISO 9000 because you have a procedure and you're following it. And they couldn't argue that. So I won that argument. We still passed. But that's what I did next was

And then I just went on my own, started doing creative thinking, and I never planned to get into this energy space stuff, and we can talk about how I got into that if you want to, but before we started, you talked about a bunch of failures too. My wife said, how many companies you started in the last 10 years? I'm like, I don't know. Well, she goes, over to the corner and count them. We come back and go, it 12. And what's the common denominator to all these, why they failed? I figured that out. It was very easy.

Adam Callinan (11:53)
you

Mark L. Fox (12:01)
I should have figured it out sooner, but I didn't.

Adam Callinan (12:04)
What was the common denominator?

Mark L. Fox (12:05)
You gotta have a 10 X markup. You have to make noise. Okay. You gotta have a ton of money to make noise. The product doesn't really matter. The marketing. So I'm going to think called the wizard Academy I've been involved with for 25 years. When people come in, they have new companies and stuff. We'd say, Hey, what probably trying to solve? How many people have that problem? Why is your solution better than anyone else's? The standard three questions. Now the first question is, do you have a 10 to 20 X markup? The answer is no quit.

Because the old school of make it for a dollar, wholesale for two, retail for four, doesn't work. Because Zuckerberg has all your money. It costs eight. People will, I'll just tell you what my marketing expenses are right now. I mean the average company is gonna have three to five percent marketing revenue if it's a retail company, right? My marketing spend is 70 % of revenue. Seven zero, not 17.

So it costs many, many, many times more to sell a product than it does to make it. And that's just the world we're in. Google's not as bad as Facebook, but all of that stuff and all the, you know, the social, all the online marketing and we're in Sirius XM radio and a lot of other things going to be launching on TV soon too. But no, there's, it costs a lot of money to make noise. That's, that's the lesson.

That's a long answer to what you just asked me. It costs way more than I thought it would to make noise. I was golfing with my nephew this weekend. He's got this little hand clip thing he invented to hang your glove on the golf cart while you're driving. I go, I don't even care if it's free. I don't care if it costs one cent to make. How are you going to market it?

Don't even try until you can figure that piece out because you're just wasting your time. yeah, that's all the other companies I had. I didn't have enough markup. And my wife is, her nickname is Lucy Van Pelt from the Peanuts because everything she in nickel. She comes from the poorest, it's funny Adam, because she comes from like the poorest family ever in Tennessee, but she's a vice president at Oracle, but she's still the cheapest person in the world. And she's like, well, you spent a hundred dollars on that and you didn't sell any yet. Quit. Which I did.

Adam Callinan (13:59)
you

Mark L. Fox (14:15)
I never, these other companies had enough budget to try to bootstrap this thing and get it going. So that's a long, long answer to we ask. it's, and I'm mad at myself because the answer is so simple, but it took me a long time to figure that out.

Adam Callinan (14:16)
you

All

you

Yeah, it's an incredibly important point and it's one that that I deal with in Pentaen all the time. Literally 30 minutes ago, I got off a demo with a client who we're basically working through the same problems. And I often use the example of like I have a friend, you know, it's similar to your your golf clip situation. I have a friend that comes to me and says, hey, I want to start a hack company. I need some advice. Okay, cool. What are you going to sell the hat for? $25. Cool. What's that going to cost?

$15, cool, that's not a business. Like, and it's game over. You know, it's not even unless you're gonna sell one person 10 hats. It's not a company that maybe it's a fun hobby if you like have time to waste, but that's not a company. So instead working on the starting point is what are you gonna acquire the customer for? And then double that because it's not gonna be what you think it is and work the margins back from that, which ends up much more in line with what you're saying and that 10 X markup as a multiple of your cost of goods against revenue.

Mark L. Fox (15:24)
that's almost the starting gate is 10x, 20, but it's at five. just, can't, I've proven it 12 times that you can't get there at least a small amount of budget, but yeah, so that's a, that was a super hard and you know what? It's, it's frustrating because you get super excited about the technology, but so Roy Williams of the Wizard Academy, I'll just throw this in there cause it's, it's along those lines. like,

Adam Callinan (15:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mark L. Fox (15:50)
I said, so Roy, if you were me, talking to my company about it last year, I'd go, what would you do? He goes, two things. Create compelling content and go find joint ventures. That's it. He goes, I wouldn't even run any Facebook, Google Ads, or radio. I wouldn't do any of that. Just those two things. He's not 100 % right, but he's in the right direction.

And here's an example you use to another at-home thing. So we're sitting out in Wizard Cabbie. These guys all drink Whiskey Scotch. It's an entrepreneurial school. It's two to three day classes. It's a nonprofit. I don't. drink beer and wine. But these guys are sitting around. And they go, hey, there's wine connoisseurs. Is there such a thing as a whiskey connoisseur? And we all like Google on our phone. The answer is no. It didn't exist. So Daniel, who's the vice chancellor, goes, OK.

We're going to have a whiskey certification class and get, we're just making stuff up to try and get new people into the academy one way or the other. He goes, there's going be five levels of certification. I go, what's level one? goes, or I what's level five? He goes, I don't even know what level one is yet. Right? So they started him and Roy's kid. started a YouTube channel, multiple ones about reviewing whiskey. And if you go Google it right now, go to YouTube, they're going to show up number one because they have compelling content. That's entertaining.

period. It's hilarious. Everyone that has whiskey, all the manufacturers distilleries, send them the whiskey and want them to review it. And they go, if it sucks and we don't like it, we're to tell everyone it sucks. And they do that. Sometimes they go, buy this. And then they get a phone call. What are you guys doing? Right. But they're hilarious. They're funny and they've never run an ad in their life and they're killing it. But Patreon and Merch and all the other stuff that they're doing that's associated with it.

So that's a different way to look at it, right? Is compelling content, and that's what Roy said, costs a lot of money to make noise, and he's right, it does, way more than it should.

Adam Callinan (17:45)
When we, so my last company was called Bottlekeeper. was an e-commerce business and we operated along that 10. think our starting out, our margin was like 90%. By the end of the company was closer to 85, but that was because we had expanded the product line, but we were way bigger then. We could have at that point in time, this is like 2014, 15 was like the early hay day of paid media. When you, when it was so inexpensive, you could spend and just build the business on a paid media revenue model.

To your point, you can't do that anymore. And I think I would say that the one caveat to the Wizard Academy position, I'd be interested in your opinion on this, is that I do completely agree that compelling content is critical. Partnerships, absolutely critical. But the compelling content, adding fuel into that fire with paid ads starts to make sense when you have compelling content that is having some viral moment. How do you look at that?

Mark L. Fox (18:43)
Yeah, and the problem is because we're on SiriusXM right now, we're reaching 12 million people three times a week with the message. The ROI, ROAS on that?

It's not good. Lots of Facebook campaigns we have are not good somewhere, right? But then it's the halo effect or just the synergy is you can't separate it all out is I'm making noise. They see it on Facebook. They see it on Google when they search maybe and then they hear it on the radio vice versa in that mix. You can't separate them all out even though it's the digital world. You can't the synergistic effect or whatever. And so it's scary because I don't know which how much I could turn one off and screw up the other stuff. Right? So

Yeah, there is not, and of course, okay, and you got Facebook ad lovers on here are gonna hate me for this, but know, Facebook lies more than anyone on their metrics. You know, firing pixels twice and doing weird things you can't ever talk to a real person. You can only get a marketing person that they hire a new one every three weeks to send your way, right? They can't answer any of the real technical stuff of what's happening in the backend, and this is the first argument I had with them.

know you guys didn't sell $80,000 because only company did 40. I mean a couple years ago it's like why are you counting 80? So the whole, and I'm a rocket scientist, the numbers are great, the metrics, but, and you'll get a kick out of this, everyone probably will, so July and August is like, so we're the fastest growing PMF company in the world I believe, okay? We're growing super aggressively. ChatGP, I put all this data in, all our P and L, all this data, ChatGP basically told me, hey Mark,

You don't need AI to tell you what you did wrong. In July, your revenue went up 44%. Your marketing spend went up 220. You don't need a computer to tell you what you did wrong. You spent too much on marketing and didn't get enough revenue in return. So you start turning knobs and trying different things and how do you trim fat and make things work as best you can. I'm 64, right? So all my friends are retiring and stuff. I'm going the wrong way.

I'm going the opposite direction of just getting more more deeper into it. like, but you know what? Forget the numbers and stuff for a minute. We get a couple hundred emails a day, maybe 80 phone calls. The amount of people that we're you know what, with PTSD people and animals and dogs, horses, that makes you keep going. I I want to go to that rabbit called stop crying. Just people that are suicidal, then they're not. People are getting divorces, now they're not.

Right? People whose kids don't want to hang out with them, now they do. Those type of changes are, how do put a dollar figure on that? And that's happening every day, constantly. Which is, phew, okay. So then you kind of keep going. And I don't know if I ever want to retire now, because it's like, this is part of my anti-Alzheimer's plan, is I gotta think hard every day how not to go broke. Right? It's like, ow, how do I keep, you my biggest fear is not being able to pay the 12 women I have in pajamas.

spread around the country, is my company. There's me and the fish here, and everyone else is a girl in pajamas. You think I'm kidding, but I'm not.

Adam Callinan (21:49)
Before we go down the resonance rabbit hole, the concept of attribution, which is what you're talking about when looking in platform like Facebook and all these things that has been broken for so long. I'm not sure honestly it ever worked. Even before iPhone was blocking all the pixels and everything, which is now the case, which means they literally have next to no visibility into what's happening. It was already a disaster. So I think you're spot on with looking at it at more high level.

as a blended across all the channels as opposed to trying to cherry pick what is working or not in platform reporting because it's just garbage.

Mark L. Fox (22:25)
She doesn't say a whole lot when she speaks. She's got pretty short senses. She goes, number one, did your bank account go up or down last month? That's it, right? That is the top thing to look at. Did it go up or down? And if it went down, so the answer is I go, went down. She goes, why did it go down? Why did it pay a boatload in quarterly taxes? Okay, if you didn't pay the taxes, would it have gone up? Yeah, a little bit. Okay. And she walks out of the room.

Adam Callinan (22:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mark L. Fox (22:53)
That is the metric, right? From a financial point of view, as you're paying your account going up or down, period, that's it. And then you can start looking more granular, but that is the litmus test, right?

Adam Callinan (22:56)
At end of the day, at the end of the day, yeah.

percent agree. So how did you find yourself in we're looking through your sort of history and transition from space and rockets to call centers in the early internet into Arizona Health. How did that happen?

Mark L. Fox (23:20)
My dog. So my dog was 27 years ago. She couldn't come up the stairs and we took her to the vet. She had severe arthritis in her spine and not my veterinarian, but one that's actually from the wizard cat, me very good friend of mine, very forward thinking. His name's Oz Jackson. He's like, Hey, there's this magic technology machine that uses energy and frequencies and it can reverse arthritis. I go, no, it can't. Yeah, it can. Okay. Well it's my dog. I'm going to go look into this.

Adam Callinan (23:21)
Okay.

Mark L. Fox (23:49)
That's how I got into it. So I didn't believe it. Skeptical. I still am. Been looking at this for 27 years, but there's enough data to say it works. Not a hundred percent, but it works a lot. So it's like, what really got me into designing products was I saw what it could do for initially for PTSD and the huge success rate with PTSD where nothing else was working. And the 44 suicides we have a day in this country for built 22.

22 military vets, 15 first responders, five medical workers, two active duty. That's not counting all the civilians. That is absolutely sickening, disgusting, and criminal that that's how they're treated and we have a solution for it, but they're expensive machines being held hostage in clinical environments. At the time, which was only in a few different states, you had to drive across country to get to one. So that's why I dove into this has got to be a way to make something affordable.

Naively like everything else I walked in there said this could be easy to stick a little coil and a battery. Yeah, that didn't work. Right? All the engineers that helped me try and build it did it from an engineering point of view. It didn't work. In the end, what it actually is, I won't get too deep into it, but it's a music player. It just doesn't have a speaker. So all the protocols are actually mp3 files that I wrote on a music synthesizer. So I'm not a musician. I wish I could play something.

Adam Callinan (24:53)
Hmm

Mark L. Fox (25:19)
By the way, at the Wizard Academy, I am the only person that can't play an instrument. They pick on me every time I go. But anyway, so it's like, no, but I could type in a music synthesizer and write the program. So it's a music player without speakers. It's just putting energy through a coil. So yeah, it was a long.

This is very personal story, but I'll just share it. can edit it out if you want to. So I'm four days away from cutting money for mold tooling, right, which is incredibly expensive. Four days. Our financial advisor I've known for 25 years embezzled us and

Adam Callinan (25:53)
you

Mark L. Fox (25:54)
and hung himself the same day he got caught. So now I'm like, he stole $40 million, some from his family. But I'm like, now what? And I actually said that to Roy Williams. said, what would you do? He goes, I'd go back to aerospace because it costs too much money to make noise, what we've just been talking about. He goes, you got to go find a bunch of money you don't have, all that stuff. I'm like, two weeks later, maybe it wasn't that. Maybe it was a week later, my wife goes, just spend the money and go do it because you'll be impossible to

Adam Callinan (25:56)
Goodness.

Mark L. Fox (26:22)
You spent that much time doing all the development and testing it, clinical trials and all that stuff on the mockups. So it almost never happened because of that. And I had to take a financial attitude. No, we're close to it yet, but I'm like, you know, screw him. I'm going to make what he stole from me rounding error. And that's just what I put in my head is no, I'm not going to let him ruin my life. He ruined a bunch of people's lives and he was supposed to be a friend of mine.

mean, you would never know that typical thing you can't imagine. So we'll go too dark there, but that was a weird thing. it almost never happened because of that.

Adam Callinan (26:59)
How did you, so you sort of developed that end state mentality of I'm gonna make the surrounding error and use that as fuel. What was your next step? Do you just executed the tooling and got product basically?

Mark L. Fox (27:15)
got product and tried

and I hadn't really ran any Facebook ads in my life or Google ads and then all the stuff we just talked about like what why is this this hard how do you surely can measure this stuff but it's trying to bootstrap it right without okay I had to borrow an X amount of money from her because mark doesn't have any and had a real job for 20 years

to pay the bank back. So that was my goal is how do I do this without borrowing money from her or anybody else and just started out slow and putting

but just elbow grease into it and staring at your bank account every month going, am I gonna go broke? How do I even pay for the next inventory? All that stuff, Is I gotta go buy inventory but I don't have the money to do that, so how much can I buy? Well, I gotta buy less quantity so it costs more. And then in the end though, the cost of the product is not the problem, as we already discussed. It's the expense of the marketing to make noise. So that's what happened.

Adam Callinan (28:10)
with your first product, what's the timeframe on when you got that first product?

Mark L. Fox (28:16)
Well, what I did is when I figured out I was an MP3 player, I took an existing Bluetooth speaker that looks like a cassette tape that you would buy as a promotional gift that you put in a bag or something. So I didn't have to build that mold tooling, and I just took the speaker out and put a coil in and started playing with that with chips. So I used existing tooling in another product. So.

That's how I cheated to get all the click because I had to start off with, does any of this even work? You know, how do I go spend money on it? It worked therapeutically. So I had to go build, you know, I think it was about a thousand devices that Bluetooth connected what I found. So it worked. The good news is it worked therapeutically. The bad news is people struggle with Bluetooth and keeping it connected. And because it's an audio file, if you can imagine when you got a ding on your text,

or somebody called while you're listening, right, it would stop the program and they couldn't see that. So I had to kill the whole Bluetooth part of it to come up with the next product. So that was the next step was dramatically simplify this, give it a screen so they can see what it is, make it alphabetical, make it look intentionally like an old iPod just for familiarity. And most people do not know this and you gotta be super old like me to even know this but.

The bars on there for the frequencies when you show it running are the same colors on a Star Trek Tri-Quarter. Subconsciously I was hoping people would look at that and go, okay, it has something to do with, it is advanced like Star Trek, right? So that was the next step and then just bootstrapping it, right? So we made money a little bit, like a nickel, right, the first year and then just had to keep buying inventory and we're still doing it. Right, just trying to keep up.

I've never told anyone this. We have almost run out of inventory three times. We've been within one day of running out of inventory, but we have.

Literally three times. like, so you can't make some of this stuff up. Adam was like, the two things that are killing me is Zuckerberg and Trump. Trump's killing me with the tariffs. And then to put on top of that, apparently there's a typhoon somewhere between here and China. So the boat has to go around the storm. So the stuff showed up two weeks late. That happened for product today. I'm talking 15 minutes ago, we had product show up and then

Adam Callinan (30:33)
Yeah.

Mark L. Fox (30:37)
The sad part is the manufacturer cannot tell me what the product costs delivered till the day we ship it. their PI is only good for 24 hours because of Trump's tariffs. Literally. They send me the invoice and if I don't pay it that day, they got to send one the next day. The good for 30 days bit, it's gone. It's 24 hours now because of tariffs.

I literally don't know what the thing cost me till the day I buy it and it gets on a-

Great.

Adam Callinan (31:07)
That is crazy. We never had, let me rephrase that. We often had the inventory issues. We ran out of product at Bottlekeeper probably eight times in the first two years, which is a great and terrible problem. Granted, we weren't selling something that was saving people's lives. We were selling like fancy beer koozies, but the...

challenges around depending on inbound shipping. can remember multiple times where some, know, to your point, something would happen on the water where literally a ship would go down or that after reroute it through the Panama Canal or the, you know, the port. is nothing against unions, union workers. would say something about us. would freak out. Like the port of LA would shut down. And so our product would just be sitting in containers on the ground for a month, just sitting there. I'd have it like, man, it was so hard.

Mark L. Fox (31:51)
And you probably do, right?

To Ship it air versus sea. Air costs twice as much, gets you twice as fast. But literally you gotta look at the inventory and cargo. For me, it's twice as much. Air twice what sea is. Now you have to look at that every time and go, how much inventory we got today, shipping today, ship it air or boat. And we, or 50-50, depend on inventory and which product it is, so.

Adam Callinan (31:56)
⁓ gosh, I it was like five times as much.

Okay.

Yeah,

we did all sorts of aerobatics around shipping this amount by air to try to reduce it as much as possible and the rest by sea and trying to thread the needle, which again, then it would run into a port lockup and yeah, it's tough. mean that these are all the realities of operating companies, operating bootstrapped companies where you don't have

the gobs and gobs of cash to just go and sit on things. But the other side to that Mark is that building under constraints builds a significantly more durable business. And you see the downside of companies that go and raise a bunch of money and make a bunch of really, really stupid decisions just because they have the money. They don't have to think about and solve problems like we had to at Bottlekeeper and like you are where you created a product out of something that already existed because there was a constraint there. That's incredible.

Mark L. Fox (33:02)
Yeah, you know that in the back of my head, right, is you know the number one reason that small businesses go out of business is cash flow. That's the number one reason. that is a con, as we've already talked about, that's a daily, I'm afraid, I just did it right before this call, look at QuickBooks, because we updated every Monday. Oh, okay, he should have updated it yesterday. Ah, it's more than I thought, okay. So I don't ever want to be surprised, but it's like trying to.

Adam Callinan (33:14)
Yeah.

Mark L. Fox (33:26)
You know, that never happens at the end of the month that suddenly the costs are a little bit less than I was forecasting. It's never, right? Never. Always one way street is like the accountant, I'm like, where did that other 30,000 come from? She goes, up here. I'm like, it wasn't there yesterday. Well, it didn't clear until then. That's just a constant thing. So you got to put that buffer in there because you know that's going to happen to you.

Adam Callinan (33:31)
It's funny how that works, right? No, it's a one-way street, always.

So will you explain, and we can start high level and go into the scientific rabbit holes as needed, but will you explain to the listener what the product that you make does and who it is for?

Mark L. Fox (33:59)
Yet so, I'd like to explain it this way at a higher level to keep it simple is nothing in the world happens without an energy exchange. So you don't brush your teeth, you don't drive your car, you don't eat food, you don't breathe oxygen, you don't fall down hurt yourself, none of that. Everything is, you don't make s'mores on a campfire, you don't roast hot dogs. So everything in the world is an energy exchange. Nothing happens, excuse me, without an energy exchange. Now...

In this energy therapy field, energy can be transferred to the body in number of ways and we'll get the ninth dimension and weird stuff will start with normal stuff. Electrical current, like a 10 unit, most people are familiar with that. Put pads on me, it's gonna put a lot of energy to my body, it makes muscles contract. PEMF, pulse electromagnetic fields, is a magnetic field. Light, vibration, or sound. Right, so everyone knows chanting, humming.

Meditation sounds all that so energy can be transferred the body Any of those ways I chose PEMF because it's the most convenient for therapy on the go and That you forget it's even in your pocket. You don't have have wires on you that kind of thing I don't have to sit in front of a light necessarily, right? So that that's the benefit there Every doctor gets angry at me when I say this but when we get into mechanism action getting that fight I'm right

they're wrong, they just won't listen to me. I go, you don't know how aspirin works, you have a theory about it, we've never proven it ever, ever, or any drug ever. You have not proven, you haven't seen it on a microscope how it actually works. You have theories about the mechanism of action. So get off your horse and soapbox about that because you guys are delusional if you think you do. Now, what do we know about this PMF and energy therapy? We know

and everyone will agree, all the doctors will agree. The cells in your body have an electrical charge like a car battery. When that voltage gets too low, you can get sick. What that means is it's actually the voltage at the membrane of the cell. If your voltage is low, nutrients can't get in the cell and waste products cannot get out efficiently. This increases the voltage on your cells. That's been proven. ATP, which is the main fuel that your cells use, adenosine triphosphate,

it's been shown to increase ATP up to 500%. So it's recharging your cells' batteries, it's increasing the food supply for the cells, so your cells and your body can do what it does best, heal itself. That part nobody will argue with for the most part. That's it at a high level, how it's working. Now, specific frequency, and everyone goes, what frequency does it run? It doesn't. It runs two frequencies at a time that change everyone to four minutes.

So picture frequency A is kind of like, where is it? B is what's wrong with it. But all the protocols are songs. They're literally picture a chord on a guitar, the two frequencies is the chord. The protocol is entire song. So like PTSD is the most complex one. It has 76 different frequency pairs. Now, where did the frequencies come from? Nobody knows. So what happened is there's a ton of, so the human body is,

It's mechanical, electrical, and chemical. You can't do anything without looking at all three, but we do anyway, because we got rid of the electrical part. Why? Because of Rockefeller and Carnegie. So there's a ton of electrical research, therapeutic research, until those two came along. Rockefeller figured out, hey, I own all the oil in the world, or standard oil, and we figured out how to make drugs out of oil. And Carnegie and me own the whole medical industry.

and all the funding to universities and basically licenses, the equivalent of the AMA at the time. So they put out a mandate. If you're not doing drugs or surgery, we're pulling your funding and you're pulling your licenses and stuff. So that's why it all disappeared in the US. So nobody really knows where a lot of this frequency stuff came from. particular, mean, Tesla was working on it. There are some publications and stuff. Russia and other guys have tons more than we do because they didn't quit. But it's...

literally trial and error and the analogy I use back to songs, you got kids in a garage, their garage band, right? They threw in a trumpet, threw in a cowbell, took out a horn because it didn't work. And that's where these protocols come from is trial and error. 8,000 practitioners over 35 years are most of the ones I've used. A lot of them, not a lot of them, more and more every day are ones I came up with because of

customer's example. After a hundred people with Lyme disease ask you what do you have for Lyme? And I go nothing. You go come up with something and develop it. Right? So I found a doctor did research on frequency with Lyme. He said one to four Hertz will kill it. But be careful. It has a Hertzheimer reaction. Lyme is a very clever little bacteria thing and it's going to spit poison when you kill it.

body back and people are gonna get sick. So the first study we did, Adam, was a success and a complete failure. Complete success because 100 % of the people got sick. 100.

100 % quit because I got sick. Okay, that didn't work. So we need a different plan. So let's try the power level five. See if you kill it, then run the liver protocol to clean the toxins out of your body. Run Vegas nerve to reset your body, rinse and repeat until you can get the amperage, the current higher and higher. And that's what we're doing right now that seems to be working. So there's a lot of experimentation stuff like that. We could go down the weirdest rabbit holes in the world.

Adam Callinan (39:45)
You

Mark L. Fox (39:45)
People

have called me and says, I need you to go make something that does this. I'm like, why? Mark only has so many hours in the day. She will probably call while we're on this call, because she calls me once a week and I haven't got anything in about a week now. That is why, why haven't you fixed this yet, Mark? And it has to do with nonverbal kids and autism. And we can go down that rabbit hole if you want to, but it's one study this doctor's begging me to go do that I got to figure out how.

Perfect example, see this device right here? Yeah, I'm gonna say the A word, Alzheimer's, okay? It's gonna work. I need $100,000 to prove it. So the FDA doesn't come murder me, right? I have the best doctor in the country to go run this study. Mark doesn't have the $100,000 to run it right now. So this is frustrating, because I got 250 of those coming day after tomorrow to my doorstep. I gotta figure out how to go fund that.

Right, because I can't bootstrap that one right now. So there's things like that. It's like priorities. I, you know, we have several different products. That one I would love to go do the study, prove it works. If you, if you have an everyone in your list is going to know some in the family, they're to know somebody that does. It's almost like cancer, right? Somebody knows somebody or you've been affected by it somehow, right? Is a friend or whatever. Alzheimer's is the most horrible thing in the world.

It ruins everyone's right. gotta have 50, 60 year old adults quitting their jobs to take care of their parents, right? They don't want to put them in homes and doing all that stuff. It's awful. That's why I really, really want to go show this works. I'm confident it will. It's the one time I got to school at MIT professor, because if your listeners, they don't know this, go Google it. MIT 40 Hertz. They accidentally found how to reverse.

in the brain with 40 Hertz flickering light. Now I've talked to the guy that ran the study and I told him what he was doing wrong and he didn't believe me. So we've had a few conversations on that. He what frequencies do you run? go one to a thousand Hertz. He goes, we can't see anything above 60 Hertz. I'm like, I know that. He goes, well how does work? I go, well first of all, let's back up. You didn't tape the rat's eyes open walking around in a box. So how did the energy get in his body? He goes, we never figured that out.

You never figured that out. So I'm telling this story at the Wizard Academy to a friend of mine, Dr. Lori Bard. She's like the top pediatric radiologist in the country. And she's listening to this story that I'm telling right now. And she goes, well, Mark, they figured out about 20, 25 years ago that your skin has light receptors as rods and cones, just like your eye. Basically, I'm like, that's not true. So I went down that rabbit hole, which it is true. I went back to the MIT guy and go, this is how the lights get into the body without them looking at it. He goes, none of that's true.

So I gave him all the studies, had a third call and he goes, holy crap, I didn't know anything. So I was like, cool, I taught an MIT professor or something. It's like, yes, all this new stuff that you don't know is I can tell you don't go study it.

Adam Callinan (42:41)
Amazing. Yeah.

Yeah, I always have a hard time with when you get into talking with people that give absolutes as if there is no other potential outside of that, because I do really believe and I'm 43 and continue to prove this out. The more that you know, the more that you realize you don't know. And the more that you spend time learning and educating yourself, it's like the, your aperture for possibility opens up so dramatically. And I've, I've

Mark L. Fox (43:15)
I'm gonna

steal that term from you because that's absolutely perfectly right. So my number one goal honestly is to manage my own stress. Literally. The best thing I've ever done a year ago I hired a woman to answer Facebook idiots that are just absolute haters. Adam I've had multiple death threats. Multiple death threats. One guy gave me his address in New York said here's my dress please come here so I can kill you.

They just, it's like, so I wrote an article called liar, liar pants on fire to try and argue with these idiots that said, okay, let's look at the top scams of all time. Antibiotics, DNA sequencing, CRISPR, MRIs, radio waves, right? Television, everything. So I go list all of these technology advancements that are impossible, 100 % impossible until they weren't.

Adam Callinan (44:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mark L. Fox (44:08)
An MRI is the most amazing, in my opinion, the most amazing invention from human beings, by far. There's nothing you can touch. It's so much magic that can't possibly be real, but we do a million of them a year and we hold up a photograph and go, yeah, okay, your liver looks like this, blah, blah, your heart. How did you get that picture? The amount of magic that goes on in an MRI, if you want me to, I can explain it in 45 seconds.

Adam Callinan (44:33)
I want to give you my recollection of it and then want you to correct it. ⁓ MRI is based on, originally was NMR, nuclear magnetic resonance, which is looking at hydrogen atoms per molecule in arrangement in an array and then is somehow translated into a magical image.

Mark L. Fox (44:35)
Okay.

close but it's way more magic than that. So each of the protons having a north and a south pole like the earth and are tilted and it's random. Okay so you got trillions and trillions and trillions of them are random. You put somebody in the tube you hit him with 50,000 goss. This one's nine okay that's the energy level. It makes all of the protons line up like a laser. Like a laser and your body starts this laser harmony energy thing.

Adam Callinan (44:51)
Okay.

Mark L. Fox (45:16)
Then you literally take AM and FM radio. I'm not making that up. you dial in AM or FM to a specific frequency to see what you want to see in the picture. So I don't remember the numbers, so don't quote me on the numbers. Say it's 107.3 hertz, right? FM, right? Megahertz, excuse me. That's what I want for liver. So you just turn the knob and you hit them with the radio waves. The magic hasn't even happened yet. Then you turn everything off and you molecule the old

go back to randomness, and your body goes, and releases a ton of energy, which you capture on a Furi-A transform machine to make a photograph.

Adam Callinan (45:54)
Yeah, that's magic.

Mark L. Fox (45:55)
It's all magic. can't make it. You can't turn protons in the lasers and make your body do this and hit it with radio stuff and then go bam and turn on. That's what the clicking and stuff is. It's turning on and off. It's going on on on on on. The whole system I just tried to turn it on and off to build the image. Just start with one of those. How did the energy go into this? What? How did it go into a photograph that's crystal clear by the way? All that is magic. So it's complete.

Adam Callinan (46:20)
amazing.

Mark L. Fox (46:22)
It's all a scam and everything until it's not. Okay. So there's a comedian rich hall in the seventies on TV had a thing called Sniglets. The words that don't aren't in the dictionary, but should be in one of them was Bozone. Okay. It's an invisible gas that surrounds people that stops new ideas from getting in. One last comment to that. I used to teach at not Los Alamos national labs. Okay. Teach creative thinking, smartest nuclear physicists in the world. I'm a stupid chemical engineer. They're going to murder me.

So I walk in, I don't make eye contact with anyone in the room, none. Okay. Go to my first slide and shows a history of physics. Okay. This year, you guys were completely wrong here. You're way wrong. This one, not too much, but the next one, it was the opposite of what everybody said. So I spent 12 minutes going through the history of physics of how completely wrong they are. And I still haven't made eye contact. Then I turn around based on that. You guys are pretty smart. There's at least a 99 % probability that whatever you did, your doctor's thesis on is a

crap and worthless and they're all like slouched in their chairs and the reason I'm doing that is trying to tenderize their brain so they'll shut up and listen to me teach about creative thinking for business because they already have their mind made up and they're smart guys in the world and it works because they can't argue you wrong wrong wrong wrong what makes you you're not wrong now right your aperture thing exactly tenderizing the brain to open their aperture I'm gonna put that in our

Adam Callinan (47:48)
I'm happy to contribute. So you mentioned hiring somebody to, you your stress relief is hiring somebody to help deal with Facebook stuff. What are some other things, you know, either practices that you have or things that you do, even if it's frankly using your own products to help sort of deal with, you know, the wild ups and downs that we have as entrepreneurs and operators.

Mark L. Fox (47:49)
Yeah.

Yeah, one thing personally that I use the device for the most is sleep. And sleep from the standpoint of my whole life I've had horrible dreams. It's always somebody chasing me or weapons and getting stabbed or shot. We'll see what kind of sense of humor your listeners have. When I run this on sleep, get Halle Berry. It's not weapon systems itself for the most part. So that and then I can measure them.

Adam Callinan (48:26)
that's much happier. Yeah.

Mark L. Fox (48:33)
our new watch that came out last week, right, is I'm measuring the amount of REM I'm getting, people probably throw up, they see how much sleep I get, because it's a lot, right? So it helps me a lot with sleep. Heart rate variability, I didn't even know what that was five years ago. We've been studying it so much, it's so important for so many different things. Mine was around 20 to 30 million, and people that don't know, the higher the better for resiliency and health.

Mine's around 20 to 30 seconds for a guy my age. 40 would be good. I'm at 110 now from running my Vegas nerve protocols. And this pendant is the second product we came out with that just does nothing but Vegas nerve you. I made this as easy as you possibly could. You turn the on button, that's all it's got. It's an on and off button. You just wear it like a necklace, like a piece of jewelry. yeah, it's made a big difference in my heart rate variability. And we ran a clinical trial on it.

And nobody's going to believe this after we just said it, but we had 100 % success rate with some metrics coming down. The average heart rate variability went up about 48 % on one session, one one hour session. So we're still running the data to show what's the cumulative effect after we're using it for two to three.

Adam Callinan (49:46)
And for the listener, your heart rate, I'm gonna say this so you can then correct me and make it a much more succinct statement. Heart rate variability is your, basically your parasympathetic nervous system response to being recovered or being ready for action.

Mark L. Fox (50:03)
It's a hug for your fight or flight system, okay? Instead of driving... Okay, that's what it is. Instead of driving your car with the gas full power and the brake at the same time, it's just a hug for that system to keep it in check and balance.

Adam Callinan (50:05)
There you go. See, that was way better. That was far worse to say. That was awesome.

Yeah, and that's because the more evenly spaced your heart rate beats are, the less prepared you are for that. It's actually supposed to be variable. You're supposed to have variability within your heart beats.

Mark L. Fox (50:30)
It's not intuitive, right? Because people think heart rate, they want it to come down. You do. But you want your heart rate variability to go up. Every day, the industry, the world's fine. It's the only, not the only, it's the main thing in your body, your body, a dog's body, a horse, and a giraffe. They all got one. It's what's the super highway that your brain communicates with the organs and the organs communicate with the brain. It's a two-way highway.

Adam Callinan (50:32)
Yeah.

Mark L. Fox (50:55)
And if you get that thing tuned correctly, does. There's so much research right now tied to gut issues. So all these things that people are fighting and that's not what the problem is causing it. It's like your vagus nerve is screwed up. Right? So one of my partners, awesome, Dr. Pedram Sonjai, he did an entire docu-series on the gut connection. And me and him collaborate now and it's...

He's using all my devices. His audience is using them, getting unbelievable results. He's my best. Back to joint ventures, he's my best joint venture guy right now. And I've known him for five months, four months, and he's killing it because he's got the respect out there. Another cool thing is, so we have it for dogs too. the reason I built, R &D stands for research and development, but also it stands for rob and duplicate. This is where I stole this one from.

I'm watching a TED presentation. Somebody's talking about the vagus nerve, because I don't know much about it. It's a 10th cranial nerve, comes down to the brain. It comes down both sides of your neck, which is closest to skin there. And that's why when Travago and those guys are putting 15 bolts into your neck, because it's closest there. But it clusters around your heart and then goes to the rest of the organs. go, clusters around your heart. Why can't I put a necklace around your heart? That's why I invented this. Like now I don't have to put electrical shock in your neck. I can put a pendant around your heart.

Adam Callinan (52:13)
⁓

Mark L. Fox (52:19)
The vest that we have for dogs, his name's Dr. Tom, he's in Myrtle Beach. He discovered our stuff three months ago. And he said, Mark, I have every PMF machine there is. Yours is absolute best. I think it's because it's over the heart. So I think you're on, don't move it. I think you're on to that. You're tapping into it better than anyone else. So I'm going out a couple weeks ago, meet him, never met him in person. He's in Myrtle Beach. It's an excuse to go golf for a day.

Adam Callinan (52:47)
Perfect.

Mark L. Fox (52:48)
go hang out with him but yeah so we have these things for for dogs. Cats, it's hard to put them on cats but all animals will go lay on it anyway if it's the right frequency. If they don't like it they will go away from it. It means you you misdiagnosed whatever's wrong with your animal and it's this part of it if I go on man on the street and I go hey do you know what a PMF machine is? One out of 15 or one out of 20 is gonna say yes. They know what a beamer mat is.

chiropractor or wellness spa or something. In the horse world, Adam, it's 100 % of the people. 100 % know what MagnaWave is. They've had the horse treated with it or the horse in the stall next to them, the vets come out and treated them. So they know what that technology is. From a marketing perspective, my avatar is a 52 year old cowgirl that is going to fight me because there's no way a 2.4 ounce little thing is going to do something on a thousand pound animal. You want to bet?

Adam Callinan (53:24)
Hmm.

Mark L. Fox (53:45)
And it's working. we have basically it's a, got one right here, cell phone holder with a 30 inch elastic strap goes around to what's on the horse's neck, right? But, and actually, I'm making an argument that a horse is more energy sensitive than a human being, even though he's thousand pound animal, because of evolution, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, it's working very well with horses.

Adam Callinan (53:53)
yeah.

Very cool, Mark. Where, yeah, mean, again, as a self-proclaimed nerd, I can spend so much time, endless amounts of time going down these highly curious rabbit holes. Where do you want people to find you, to find your company? Where are you making noise?

Mark L. Fox (54:10)
Thank you. It is the funnest job I've ever had. I'm not making any money.

Yeah, so Rezona, R-E-S-O-N-A dot health is short for resonance. So Rezona dot health. They go find information there. I think what I thought about it for this call too is the last book I wrote is called What on Earth Are We Doing to Our Health? It's on there for like a dollar or whatever. I'm going to just give you a link that you put in the notes and then just download the PDF for free. But that talks about everything that we've been talking Not everything, but.

Kind of the background, some of the questions you already asked me, but it'll recap that and give them some examples and they can dive into it a little more. Just go educate yourself on it. In the end, it won't work for everybody. I can tell you on most of our protocols, it's over 90 % on PTSD. We have 98 % success rate. That's unheard of for any intervention. And it's statistically proven at that level. So you go try it. If it doesn't work for you, I don't want anyone in the world to

for it if it didn't work, send it back and give your money back.

Adam Callinan (55:25)
Amazing. Well, I really appreciate your time. It's not every day that I get to have a conversation with a rocket scientist and a fellow health biology nerd. so that's great. I deeply appreciate the time.

Mark L. Fox (55:34)
Okay.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was fun. It was great. All right, see you.

Adam Callinan (55:41)
Thanks Mark.