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After the Vows is a podcast about the real challenges that arise in marriage after the honeymoon phase fades. Hosted by Joe & Karen Coffey, each episode offers honest conversations about growing together through every season of marriage. New episodes drop every Thursday, offering real talk, real struggles, and real hope—whether you're newly married or decades in.
Welcome to After the Vows, a podcast from Christ Community Chapel about the challenges that show up in marriage after the honeymoon ends. I'm Joe Coffey and together with my wife Karen, we will gather in each episode with some friends just to talk about the real issues that happened in every marriage. I hope you'll join us everybody. Welcome to today's episode of After the Vows. And today's topic is parenting. Because children are great, but man, can they complicate marriage. Right, that's going to a be our topic. And let me introduce our guests, my lovely wife Karen. Hello. And our good friends, Gene and Stacey DiNardo. Hello. Hello. Hello. Good to be here. All right, let me start with this. Uh, give me a story about parenting that uh, was not funny at the time, but is funny now. And I'll good ahead and start since I've had some time to think about it. Uh, when we were parenting, uh, I think one of the strategies was to let your child cry it out. Like put them to bed and just let them cry. I remember that one. Developed great abs. It's all good. Mhm. So that it was Jeremy's time and Karen, we were living in a tiny house, 900 square feet. And I turned the TV way up and I was going, this is the night he's crying it out. And no cameras know we have no cameras to know what's going on. And Karen was begging me, let me just go in, let me check. Cause he'd been crying for like an hour. And uh, I was going, no, you can't check. And finally I said, okay, I'll check. So I checked and you got to check. Not yeah, okay minute. This Jeremy wouldn't be that excited about seeing me. Oy. So I crack open the door and Jeremy had pulled himself up. I don't know how old he was, but he probably 10 months. They used to have these jungle gyms, uh, I don't know what they call it, but it's illegal now, they don't make those. But he had pulled himself up and he had fallen over, so he was hanging by his stomach. Oh man, this is why they don't make those. And I picked them up and he had this red striper and he was just whimpering and I was going, sorry bud, I thought you were faking. He fell asleep like right away. So yeah, that was her. What did you tell Karen when you went back out? Did you. Oh, he's fine. Yeah. I fixed it. Fixed it? No, I told her. Yeah. So yeah, from then on I lost that battle. Not check out. Okay. Okay. Well, I've got a parenting that also happens to include a pet. Uh, we had a dog that got skunked, like, badly skunked. So real late at night. So getting a dog cleaned up. It was horrible. Smelled awful. The whole house smelled. Cleaned him in our laundry room tub and called it a night. Thought we were good to go. I'd done a great job of getting the dog clean. Send the kids off to school in the morning. And, uh, kids are off to school, middle school, I believe. And I'm walking into work. You're at your office. And we get an, like, emergency text from Mia, our oldest, that said, you have to come and get me now. I smell like skunk. I'm literally walking into the sidewalk of the office. And our founding pastor, Colledge, was walking next to me, and I leaned over and I said, ah, this kind of awkward, but can you smell me real quick? He smelled me and said I was fine, but. But why did you ask me to do that, like, last week? So anyways, yes. Don't typically ask people to smell me, but in that occasion. And he said I was okay. But we went and, uh, we were re good parents. We went and ran and got the girls. Got the story, though, from our daughter Mia, that she was in home room and she was sitting there with her backpack and COD on, which were in our living room or in our laundry room. And she happened to have a kid sitting behind her that she'd had a crush on for, like, six years. And he leans over and goes, who smells like skunk in here? And she lost it. Uh, went to the bathroom and realized we had not quite cleaned up everything as well as we should had. So you guys had gone noise deaf noise deaf. Yeah. Okay. It was bad. It was bad. That is bad. So funny now, but at the time, we felt really bad for our kids and middle school's the worst to, uh, it was right. Endure something like that. That was character building. That was right. Character building. All right, let's get into the topic. Here's the way I'm gonna set it up. I remember reading somewhere where it said, if you want to learn to love something, get a dog. If you're give your heart away and never get it back, have a child. And so, uh, one of the things that makes parenting a complication in marriage is that I felt like when we got married, I was giving my heart away to Karen, and she was giving her heart away to me. And then introducing a baby then made that heart divided. And how it gets divided and then, of course, kids come with a whole different set of dynamics as they grow up. And so let kind of get into that. Like when you guys first had kids, uh, how did it complicate your relationship or if did it. Do you remember it complicating it at all? And Karen's the same question to you. Yeah, I know it complicated. How complicated my life? Well, all of our attention when we're just married was for each other. Right. So, I mean, you said that our heart divided. So I think there's so much that you learn personally and then together as a couple comes along with the sleep deprivation, comes along with the sacrifice. I, um, mean, honestly, the initial stages of having a child, I feel like it was just survival mode of figuring it out. Yeah. I don't know what. Yeah. In time, like, your concept of time changes with children. Cause you once had free time, and then almost all of a sudden, you're wondering, what did I do with all my time? Not have no time. No time and no time for each other. No time. Or felt that way. Y. Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, um, I am a strong, maternal person and love being a mom. And so I think there were times when you felt like I was, um, not paying as much attention to you as I was the babies. That sounds terrible for me, but I remember, like, not even, uh, trying to figure out how to even talk to you. Because if you held the baby, you'd be looking down and cooing at the baby when I'm trying to talk. If I held the baby, you wouldn't be looking at me. You'd be looking at the baby. Like, I would have to put, like, I'm calling it the baby. Like, they didn't have names. I just put the baby in another room. And then you worry about them ca. Because who knows? They could be hung. You can't put the baby in and out her room. So ru that from the belly. That's not the answer. So I also know that, uh, I have told couples before that, um, the greatest competition for, uh, a woman, uh, is the man's job. Many times, at least traditionally, because he gets a lot of affirmation, his sense of accomplishment at his work. Uh, the greatest competition for a, uh, man is his own children, which makes it seem, uh, hard. Now, how did you figure that out when your kids were gonna go through different stages of parenting with marriage, but when your kids were little, how did you, uh, find time for each other? How did you navigate the divided heart? Kind of. Yeah, I'm very m. Blessed and that Stacey is not like me. Um, I'm very kind of laid back. Things will kind of happen. And Stacy is very planned ahead of time and structured ahead of time. So um, she did a really good job early on in our marriage of being purposeful of planning time, um, for us. For us. Yeah. Yeah. Um, to where I never really, I don't know, I don't think I really felt like I um, don't think I was missing out because of your attention being on one of the kids. Um, I think your structure helped me with that. Yeah, I don't think early on we probably had a ton of structure in that way. But I do think you were very gracious and not, I don't think you felt as much as maybe some other men do that that was like the baby was competing for, you know, my attention. Um, and some of that was because of how all in you were as a dad and you were taking, you know, were jumping in to do as much as you could with the girls when they were really little. Um. So. Yeah, I don't know's. Yeah, I think it's a good question. I think um, to be honest, we did have to talk about it and I had to come to grips with um, maybe some of the fears that I had of. For the kids and worries and just you being able to say, you know what, they're okay, they're sleeping in their bed, you know, let's have some time together. And I think that was helpful for me just to put aside some of the fears that I had. And then, um, I mean some other like easy things would be to take a walk and put the baby in the. Put one of the kids in the stroller or I can remember us going to a drive in movie. This was member back in the 80s, so drive in movies were safe then. Um, and we'd have the kids just in the back of the car and we could spend time. So I think we would be creative in spending time together. Yeah, I think one of the things that complicated it with us is that I think my love language is quality time. So I was like craving time. I think it helped us to have ah, like a date time. We didn't have any money so it had to be breakfast. So we had a missionary friend who was poorer than we were. She would come over and do her laundry. Cause we had a washer and dryer and she would wash the kids and we would go to breakfast. And that was really helpful to me. I knew that I was gonna spend that time yeah. Let me ask you this. Like, uh, as the kids get older, uh, you're also trying to figure out. Actually, even when the kids were young, you're trying to figure out roles. Who and you, out of the two of you, is the disciplinarian, uh, and does it change, um, with small things and big things? I was tempted to say yes just to see what you would say, but, uh, I'll let you answer first. Well, I think in day to day things, I mean, I was, um. I mean, I did work part time outside of the home, starting when our youngest was like just two. So very part time though. But I was still with the girls day to day, day in and day out, much more because of what your work entailed. So I would say on day to day stuff, I definitely was the disciplinarian when it came as they got older and bigger things. That's much more. We were very much both involved in discussing what things would look like or what was the best way to approach, uh, challenge that we had. But yeah. And you're the fun one. Yes. So let's just say that you're the fun one and I'm not the fun one. So that kind of goes along there with that. And would you. Now, was that hard, uh, for. To come to grips with the fact that nobody really likes you? St. Ye. I was gonna say it was not hard for me at all. Being the favorite was hard. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know. I mean, part of it. It is who. I don't know. I do like to have. I think part of it is parenting changes you. You start to grow into and function in a role that is just what's needed because of the time that you're spending with the kids and you're there when something happens that is needing to be responded to. Um, so, yeah, no, I didn't. I don't always love that. I don't love going, oh, I'm not seen as the one that's, let's just go have a great time. And now did that cause any conflict? Like, were there times where you were thinking on it's not. Yeah. That they don't deserve to have a good time right now? I mean. Well, that sounds bad, but you know where. Yeah, I think has it caused conflict in, um, my failure at times to appear supportive. Um, where I would sit and just kind of watch rather than get involved. Um, which was unfair to st. Making her feel like she was on an island by herself being the hammer while I just sat there. Um, Observing. That's good. Yeah. Now, did they ever go around you through je to? Uh, I try to change. One of our children did do that, I would think. Don't you think? Um, yeah, but only on, like, little. For the most part, I would say they never. They didn't do that. On little piddly things, maybe at times. Um, but I think, generally speaking, fairly unified. Yeah, we were fairly unified, but I think there was some of, um. I would say they would know when we wouldn't disagree. Yeah. Or when we wouldn't agree. Often my first response would always be, what'your mother say? What'your mother say? Right. That's good. Yeah. Cause I know you went there first. What'your mother say? Yeah. Oay. So what about us? What were our roles? Well, I think, like Stacey, I was with the kids, um, during the day. Um, and so I think I did like structure, though, and I had some certain kind of values that were important to me. And so in spite of the way it seems, I was able to create some order and discipline. Oh, for sure. Um, I think that it was really important for me to be able to take care of some things myself. Just because I didn't want you to always, always be the hammer, if you will. Um, and so I think for us, like you said, I think it's important to be on this same page. I think that parents, um, need to have a united front and if you don't agree on something, to take a pause and find a way to communicate in a compromise. You know, find a way that is, um, agreeable for both of you. Yeah, it's probably a good practice. Like, um, we're talking now of kids being in their teens probably, where they come up with something and they ask to do something right then, and you guys need to talk about it so you end up having to go, okay, we're go going toa have a sidebar. You go to your room. We got to talk. Instead of one of you saying yes and one of you saying no at the exact same time and then hashing it out in front of it in front of them. Right? Because I think. I think we've done both. Teenage y teenagers, the way dogs can smell fear, teenagers can smell weakness. Actually, toddlers can smell weak because they're born with that. So, okay, let me ask you this now. What about, uh, your basic idea about discipline? Let's start with toddlers, like when they had meltdown or tantrums, it seems like you gott be. You gotta both be on the exact same page. Because if they find one bit of weakness felt they in on. So how was that? I don't remember having much conflict over that. I feel like we were pretty unified. I think you did a really good job of proactively talking about situations and scenarios before they happened. With the kids or with you? With me. Oh. I mean, we talked through well in advance of everything from curfew to dating to. I mean, before we had to actually deal with it. Philosophies on discipline. Um, and that evolved over time. Right. Different things worked with. Yeah, that's for older kids though. I'm trying to think when they were younger, did we have oftent times where there was any sort of, uh. Oh, we have to be on the same page with how we're gonna discipline our toddler. Things like that. How about grades? How were we with grades? Yeah. What was what? So we have, um, I would say our mantra. Like in the home, we said you needed to work hard, you had to communicate, and you need to be honest. And those were the three things that mattered to us. Yeah, like we didn't care if you got an A or a C if you were. Those things were happening. And I think, I mean, so we cared very much. We would of course, love for our kids to get straight A'WE. Just knew. We also had different kids that had different strengths in different areas and knew like, the reality was not that they were going to always achieve a certain grade. So those were the things that we just communicated over and over were what mattered. And freedom came with those things happening or seeing. You're working hard, you're being honest, you're communicating well. So in the area of school, on education in particular, I think with us, I think I put a lot of emphasis on grades. I think more so than you. Um, probably. Yeah. I think, um, my goal was probably to work hard, do what you need to do. But you came from. See, and this is where we go almost back to what we talked about last time. You go back to where you were raised. That's what I wasnna ask. And what the values were in the home that you grew up in, in good grades were of value for your parents. They were. Um. So that's so interesting because I think part of my very high grades was very important in my house too. And yet I think I found that, well, you came from educators, I came from educators and it mattered. And nothing wrong with that, but I do think it caused me then when we were having our kids to go like, it's not just about the grade, which is as interesting because uh. Y. Yeah, right. You had to shift a little bit. I shifted a little bite. But the biggest thing is to somehow get on the same page. Yeah. Ye. And I think grades were important and we have a few examples in which the kids were able to see that. But you also were reasonable. You and I think we were able to talk about it and if you had a little bit of a heads up that this was a hard class and yeah, for me it was the best thing about parenting for me is to have you be somebody that I could talk to that would talk me down off a ledge. Because sometimes I would need you to. I'd say, you need to tell me. I'm about to go into the room to tell me what I should do, what I shouldn't do, or what I can do can't do. Ye again, it helped because I was an educator too and so I knew I was in the school so I could see that the kids were doing well and they were, they were successful in other areas. So this was not um, this was situational. Yeah. With kids. How did you figure out the hills to die onus? Uh, I remember like with. I would walk past one of the girls rooms and it would just look like a bomb went off. Oh yeah. And I was going what are we doing? And then still today Karen would just say just close the door. Don't even think about it. So we would do that. And then I've been surprised that both girls hud keep a really nice house. They keep out. That's right. No, again, I don't know how much of it is about uh, in the moment I'm making a decision. It's just you're figuring it out because even I was goingna mention to your point, with grades I wouldn't go on and look because I knew I was not gonna be able to handle if I didn't see a certain standard. And yet I knew we had what we decided in our house was going to be in the most important and rooms is the same way. I mean, you know. So I think hills to die on when the stakes really matter, the consequences are when truthfulness, when ye. Some of those integrity things really mattered. And I think those were sometimes more of the hills to die on rather than we were able to close the door and go okay. I think when they're independent they're gonna figure out how to not be a mess. And uh, we would talk to them pretty candidly. Very candidly. Is this the kind of person you wan toa be? Mhm. And those are the issues, those character issues that I think, um, we were pretty hard on iseah. Now, do you remember getting into a major fight between each with each other because of kids, because of at any stage. Like, I remember the one time when I felt like you and Rachel had talked on the side one of the kids and decide. Yeah, the one named Rachel had talked on the side and decided something and then came to me as like a united front. And I was like, uh, what in the world? That was wrong. Yeah. And yeah, that was, that was not good. And that only happened once. So. Yeah. But that goes back to loyalty. So that was the value. That's you. And uh, it's not a problem, it's a value. And I love why you're think thinking about ye while you're thinking of it. Let me also uh, affirm your three things. I love that I think a family parance need to think about what kind of adult that. That's totally it. And then, then look back and what can you do? So for us, some of the values are academic and so books have always been a big part of our life. But I think for me the biggest thing was I wanted home to be safe. Uh, and so there is no name calling ever. And um, that was something that I really was passionate about because I wanted home to be a place where everybody felt safe and that there wouldn't be surprises. Um, so your example, I think I had gone against kind of making home a safe place. Cause we hadn't talked about it properly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Now, uh, kind of the last question, like, how would you try to help a couple with kids, with the whole heart divided, how do you keep the marriage as the priority, your relationship with each other? I know. And at different stages, I know when our kids were toddlers, uh, we would send them out of the room and just say go. Becausee I wanted to connect with Karen for like 10 minutes. Yeah. And so I'd say, you guys gotta go. And they knew this was mom and dad's time and they would go do something. Um, how did you prioritize? What advice would you give to prioritize at different stages of parenting? Because one of the worst things is that when uh, a couple is starting to have trouble and uh, let's say the mom, uh, her closer relationship is with her children. That I think happens more often than the father having a closer relationship with his children. But yeah, that seems like a hard thing. I mean I would say we won some and lost some in this. So I definitely. We could talk about the losses. Let me start with the wins, though. No, I mean, Gene was decision. He kind of. He started with this. But I do think the one thing we did well was out of the gate once the kids came, we were going once a year, twice a year. We're getting away no matter what. And we're going to prioritize that and make sure that that is something that we don't, you know, let go of, negotiate. Because you do become in parenting, you become like, it's hard to find yourselves as a couple for sure because you just become mom and dad. And that's the world your existing virgeon. And whenever you're alone, you're even talking about the kids ex. So I would always find, like, it would take a couple days of being away to like, find us again. And so that was something we did well. But I mean, I think there are times, especially in the teen years, that we didn't always keep conflict. Um, not that you're trying to hide conflict from your kids, but the fact that they would see conflict we were having allowed them to, you know, there were tensions created or they would know they should go to dad for this or they should go to mom for this. So, um, thats not a great thing. I mean, I think there'times if navigating when you have conflict or different things around the kids, um, and having a way to handle that, not that they're not gonna see or that they're. You can talk about them appropriately with. But I don't know if you've. No, nothing. I, uh. Okay. I don't know. It's. Karen, what'tricky one, though? What advice would you give a couple to try to stay connected? Well, I think the first thing would be making time, carving out time, whatever that looked like, whether it was 10 minutes on the couch or, uh, having somebody babysit and going out for breakfast or lunch. Um, going away once a year, I think is a great idea. But I think, um, talking about it and making sure that the other person. Do you feel like we're getting enough time together, making sure you understand how the other person feels? Um, and you could say to me, do you feel like I'm supporting you so that you have some extra time that we can. There are different ways. You can both share what your needs are and the other can fill it. I think the united front is so important, and I think that creates such a security for kids. And if there isn't that united front, then the chaos just rises. Yeah, I think that kids can act like they want to divide and conquer, but it's the worst thing for them. Exact as well. Exactly right. All right. Exactly. Thanks everybody. Thanks for uh, joining me during this episode. It has s been great. Hey, thanks for listening to After the Vows. We really hope this conversation encouraged you. It has given you something to talk about with your spouse, but maybe more than anything just reminded you that you're not alone if you want to keep growing in your marriage. Check out more episodes sermons. There other helpful content on the CCC app or on a YouTube channel. Be sure to subscribe and we'll see you next time. Thanks.