Pete Wright:
Welcome to How To Split A Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships from True Story FM. Today we're taking on what it means to be alone after your divorce. Let's go fishing.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show everyone. I'm Seth Nelson with my good friend, Pete Wright, and we're really glad that you're here and hope you get some quality time with yourself, is what we're looking to do during this podcast. And talk about what it's like after divorce or on that first weekend you don't have the children or just have time to yourself that you might not have had while you were married.
Pete Wright:
Now I wonder, Seth. I wonder when you think about your experience in your own divorce, at what point during the divorce process, did you come to the awakening that maybe there would be some newfound freedoms in your life that you had not heretofore expected?
Seth Nelson:
My divorce was very fast. I got the whole thing done I think in less than three months, because, I would never speak for my former spouse, but I think she couldn't wait to get away from me. So just be done. In all seriousness, we're very close, we're raising a child together who's 16, so I hope she laughed at that joke if she's listening to the podcast. If not, I'll hear about it later.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
It's not so much within the divorce process, though it does happen within the divorce process. That first weekend when you don't have the children, it might be horrible. Like, oh my God, this is what my life is going to be like. I'm never going to see my kids. Or if you don't have kids the first weekend you're not with your spouse that you dated, presumably, before you got married and then you hung out and then you joined your lives together, now it's your first weekend without them. As you progress farther and farther away from the initial breakup let's call it or splitting or the time you start spending alone, I think people realize that you have a lot of time now to choose what you do that you might not have had before.
Seth Nelson:
So by way of example, I work a lot, I get into work early, I get home late, I take calls on the weekend. When the kids were little, I would try to do all the kids' stuff and birthday parties and get them to their activities and go, go, go, go, go. And I never really made time for myself, whether it was the internal pressure, and I'm not even saying that my spouse was like, "No, you're not allowed to go golf." I mean, some people say that, or, "No, you can't go fishing or go hang out with the guys and watch football or whatever."
Pete Wright:
Well that's a whole different kind of freedom, then you start looking forward to that. That's why you get divorced.
Seth Nelson:
Right. In fact, absolutely, where I never get to do anything I want.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
It's not just about what the other person is kind of pushing onto you, but how I viewed being a husband, being a parent, owning a law practice and just always making myself available and never taking time for myself. I found that this kind of forces you to do that because it's a weekend, I didn't have my kid so I could either work the whole time or I could learn something new. I started to learn how to cook on my own. Literally Google a recipe, figure it out. It was almost like turning Black's Law Dictionary into English because they have all these terms in cooking that I had no idea and would have to look up. But just to have everyone think about what is it that you like to do that you haven't allowed yourself to do, whether the other person was putting the pressure on you or you internally were putting the pressure on yourself?
Pete Wright:
Well, and there are some people who thrive in the obligations that come from being in a relationship and in a family and don't ever give themselves sort of the time to see, oh gosh, if I didn't have to drive carpool right now, if I didn't have some sort of help there, I would be reading a book or I'd be reading Dune again, something like that. There are some people that really thrive on that. And I guess if you're not one of those people, it can be a real surprise that some of that time gets reclaimed.
Seth Nelson:
Right, and also I think from my experiences, there are a lot of very successful women that put a lot of pressure on themselves to be a great mom, be an amazing person at their chosen profession, to be a great wife, whatever that means and whatever any of these great things mean to that person. And nowhere in any of those descriptions are I'm just going to chill out and take a bath and read a book.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
And a lot of that is societal. I think it's harder on women than men. Nobody thinks twice if a dad doesn't show up to parents night, right?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
If mom's not showing up, what's going on?
Pete Wright:
Sure.
Seth Nelson:
So there's those societal pressures. But when you can release yourself from that, when you can release yourself from I just don't have the children this weekend, or what do I like to do? I encourage people, make a list of things that you've always wanted to do but you always would say, "I don't have time." What would be on your list, Pete?
Pete Wright:
It would definitely include watch more movies.
Seth Nelson:
Right, you're a big movie buff.
Pete Wright:
I'm a movie guy. And right now in unprecedented times and whatnot, gestures broadly, I'm not going to the theater a lot, but I've got a watch list that's yea long and I don't have a lot of time to catch up on those things. I mentioned those obligations of life and family, I mean we've got two kids that are in school online and we, my spouse and I, both work from home so right now we have four of us. It feels like I'm in an office. We're just busy and we cross paths at the water cooler kind of thing. You asked that question and because of all those things, I don't even know where I would begin to start to think about what if I had more time that I actually owned.
Seth Nelson:
Right. And that goes back to a previous conversation we had where you can maybe go to your spouse and say, "Can you be on kid duty tonight? I would love to watch a movie."
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
That has nothing to do with your relationship. It's all about you needing to recharge your batteries.
Pete Wright:
That gets to another question that I have here and I want to pivot, and again, this is probably more personal experience and observational experience, but at what point does that process become easy? Because my hunch is that you're fresh from your divorce and figuring out what that looks like, what that reclaimed time looks like, I imagine that's sort of a reactive experience for some people, like putting on shoes that are a little too tight or too loose. You don't know how to own your own time because you haven't had a chance to do it.
Seth Nelson:
Absolutely. I actually think this breaks into two categories, and this is just my own experiences. But one is someone like me who's very social and outgoing, and then I was alone and I was like, "Whoa, what's going on here?" Which is actually, was really healthy for me. I am a better person now because I am very comfortable being alone. It's not that I'm not social and it's not that I don't like to go out, but I'm no longer freaked out if I don't have something planned over the weekend with a bunch of friends or doing something. I will put on my favorite podcast, I'll start cooking, I'll do whatever. I'll listen to music, I'll binge watch some shows. I'm good. So there's that where it's like I don't know what to do with my time. And so then some people would go out, go out, go out, but not really find themselves.
Seth Nelson:
The other is the reverse, the person that really loves being alone, so they're going to be like, "Oh my God, this is great." The struggle for that person might come later when then they're trying to maybe find another relationship. Like, "I'm so comfortable being alone, it was so bad in the last relationship. I couldn't ever get alone time. I have all my alone time now. I don't want to give up any of it even though I want to share my life with somebody." So there's always that balance, and I think everybody's different. I think it all takes time. But I will see people that I have represented a year or so after their divorce, I mean actually final, they are always in such a much better place. Their color is back, they look better. It's not the strain of it all. I mean, it's taxing on you going through a divorce.
Pete Wright:
And when you think about getting to the divorce, like how many years? We talked about in our very first episode that divorces are on average three years in the making. That's three years of struggle and strife that you're trying to navigate the waters of complex relationship issues that aren't good ones and leading up to a divorce. Of course, that's a strain on your body, it's a strain on your mind, your emotional wellbeing, of course.
Seth Nelson:
Absolutely. Just take a moment and think about things that you've always wanted to do or that you haven't made time for. If you're a list maker, make a list, check it off. You have those friends, right, that make lists and they love crossing stuff off and they'll actually already complete something that's not on the list and they'll put it on the list just to get the pleasure to cross it off.
Pete Wright:
Put it on the list and cross it off. Oh yeah.
Seth Nelson:
But make some time for yourself. I know I keep saying it over and over, but it's just so important to take a moment and just breathe and say, "This is what I'm going to do." It might be nothing. It might be at this moment, I'm just going to feel sad that I don't have my kids. That's okay too.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
I'm not saying ignore that. I'm not saying that you don't go through these different emotions of loss when you're going through this process, but there is a silver lining. People come to realize like I love my kids, but boy, I like my weekends off.
Pete Wright:
There is a sense of just sort of exuberance. Like what are the things that you do that can help you find joy in a time of great grief? And I think people forget this, that joy can exist alongside grief. If you are feeling like the end of your divorce process was hard, as many people do, and are going through a grieving process, it's okay to give yourself that sort of physiological experience of joy that constricts the blood vessels and gets the dopamine pushed and gives you a sense of rebuilding in your body. It's okay to do those things together. So if it's gator wrestling...
Seth Nelson:
Right, right. Well, I actually have one that everyone does whether they realize it or not. They're setting up their own place again.
Pete Wright:
Oh yeah. It's an extreme home makeover.
Seth Nelson:
It's an extreme home makeover. I actually read this. It was on spending after divorce and it was so stereotypical sexist where the amount of money that guys spent on my electronics after divorce was outrageous.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, extraordinary.
Seth Nelson:
Extraordinary huge flat screen TVs.
Pete Wright:
I am already, you just said it and I realized, "Oh, I need to go back in this podcast and add extraordinarily large flat screen TV, that's on my list too." And at most, I need like 300 speakers in my living room. It's going to be gross.
Seth Nelson:
Right. I always tease my son. I'm like, "You have the best TV ever to play XBOX on." And then on the other side, ladies, it was a totally different spending, but it was on pillows. It was on getting their house ready, the couch, the this, the that, making it nesting, feeling very comfortable. No man cave.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
And I'm not saying everyone does this. This was one study that I read. But you get to set up your own place. And in fact, we might have a guest come on who's an interior designer who has been through a divorce.
Pete Wright:
Oh yes.
Seth Nelson:
She is amazing, she's funny, and she's been through it, but that's just an amazing thing that everybody does. And when you talk about taking your personal belongings, I always tell people, and it's so sentimental, it's all this stuff, but there's something nice about just having something new that's just yours. You own it.
Pete Wright:
I'd like to say for the record, using a legal term, did you see what I did there?
Seth Nelson:
I noticed that. That was very impressive. I was like, what record are you talking about? But keep going.
Pete Wright:
For the record for the podcast, the podcast record, for the annals of history, Seth Nelson, I would like to state this show is in no way advocating people get divorced, and yet I'm kind of planning for the man cave with the hot tub and the 100 inch flat screen and I'm happily married. So I'm just saying, let's define the term.
Seth Nelson:
Today's term as a little lead in, because we want to make things simple today, it's about finding your space again, it's about doing things that you want to do. We don't want to confuse it with any of this legalese. I scoured, I scoured in red Black's Law Dictionary cover to cover, okay. That's over 1500 pages of legal definition to find one word that means the same thing in legalese as it does in English. And here we go, single, an adjective. Definition number one, unmarried. Definition number two, consisting of one alone individual. Full stop, we're good.
Pete Wright:
Cue the music.
Seth Nelson:
Now, because I am a law nerd, I will tell you that it did have single tax status and single condition and single beneficiary, but that doesn't really relate to what we're talking about at this point. Those are all fun terms. But single means unmarried. And notice that, back to our original podcast, single doesn't mean divorced.
Pete Wright:
This goes back to the forms.
Seth Nelson:
Right, back to the forms. Single means unmarried.
Pete Wright:
Interesting.
Seth Nelson:
So when you are talking to someone and you're filling out those dating apps and it says, are you single, divorced? Here we go again. It just means unmarried.
Pete Wright:
Seth, we've painted some grand fantasies. I'm not lying. Grand fantasies about what I'm going to do with my alone time. But now we're talking about working with your lawyer, and I feel like using my alone time just to sit in my new hot tub and watch movies all day is probably not something my lawyer is going to A, advise, or, B, care about. What would my lawyer be saying to me about how I should best use my time going through the divorce process?
Seth Nelson:
I would tell any client take care of yourself, like we're saying, recharge your batteries on the weekends you don't have the kids. If you are sitting in your hot tub, in your man cave binge watching whatever shows you're watching, I would tell you do not post it on social media.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Now I know there are people who are going to have opinions about social media, but explicitly for the purposes of our conversation and the law, why should I not be posting to social media?
Seth Nelson:
So you see on every TV show, on all those lawyer shows that I hate because in my mind I'm like, "No, that's not how it works." I'm doing the trial scenes, I'm like, objection, leading in my head.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right.
Seth Nelson:
But in every lawyer show, it says anything you say can and will be used against you. Your social media posts will be used against you. I advise my clients do not post on social media, because anything you put on there is some indication into your life, what you were doing, when you were doing it, with whom were you doing it? And it might be, "Seth, I was at my kid's soccer game." That's right, but now you're posting stuff about your kid and maybe the judge doesn't really like having a bunch of kid photos out there.
Pete Wright:
That's an irresponsible parenting choice.
Seth Nelson:
It may or may not be and a lot of it's out there, but I just advise stay off of social media. Also, Venmo. Have you used Venmo?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I've used Venmo to transfer money, sure.
Seth Nelson:
If you're Venmo-ing, that's a transaction. If it's public, oh, I just Venmo'd $25 and you put a bunch of drinks as the example. Oh, that just happened to be when it was parent night that you didn't go to.
Pete Wright:
The guy just makes me hate Venmo. Oh.
Seth Nelson:
I keep mine private, but it's really-
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Why wouldn't you pick keep it private? That's insane.
Seth Nelson:
It's really pretty boring. I'm like happy birthday. Go enjoy yourself, I just advise keep it off social media because you don't want to give something that's very innocent to the "other side," if you're going to end up going to a trial, anything else to go question you about. I mean, it's so invasive the process of divorce. After you're divorced, you have a good relationship. I get you're going to post stuff, that's fine. It's usually, at least in Florida, you can always kind of come back if there's parenting issues. But it's got to be what's called a substantial change in circumstances so there's all this other stuff. Do not even after your divorce post anything about the judge.
Pete Wright:
Oh, they can come back at you.
Seth Nelson:
Oh my God. Yeah. There's ways to open up the case when you post, "Oh my God. The judge bought all my lies." Okay. Let's do a motion for rehearing, Your Honor. Let's open this can of worms back up, because look at what they just said.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Seth Nelson:
Right?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, of course. You know, I got to tell you, that's the way I want the law to work. That's actually really gratifying to me to hear that. That's exactly. You go, courts.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah we can open it back up when you just posted on social media that "Oh, that dumb judge bought all my lies."
Pete Wright:
Okay. So in terms of the social media safety zone, we're talking about the moment you decide I'm going to file for a divorce. I think it's too late, we're stopping, we know that the relationship is ending. We're going to stop posting on social media altogether. And we're going to maybe, if social media becomes important to us, we're going to maybe start slow walking our posts, gentle posts back into the social media landscape once the divorce is signed and everything's done or final.
Seth Nelson:
Right, because you just never know how that's going to be used and literally it could be something as, "Well, I don't understand. Why can't I post my vacation? We always went on vacations. I'm just posting." I understand, but we're asking for alimony and now you're posting this great scene and it's going to complicate things. It's complicated enough, and also, all this stuff is out there forever. I always tell people, please do not go on a rant with your thumbs about texting. And it's different in jurisdictions, but for example, if you're going through a divorce and you text me as your friend, "I hate her. She did this. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And you're saying all this bad stuff. "I'm going to do everything I can to keep the kids away from her," and you're going on and on and on, that might be in front of the judge. So it's kind of like the same. Don't ever put anything you don't want in front of the New York Times front page, anything that's going to be in front of the judge.
Seth Nelson:
I have a hammer that I actually keep at the office, which you might find weird being a lawyer, but I really will tell clients, I'll pull it out and I'm like you do another text, I'm breaking your thumbs. Put your thumb out here, I'm just going to take the hammer and break your thumbs.
Pete Wright:
I'm going to break your thumbs. We're speaking metaphorically, ladies and gentlemen.
Seth Nelson:
We are of course.
Pete Wright:
Of course there is no thumb breaking on this podcast.
Seth Nelson:
No. And this whole I unfriended somebody, you guys have a network of friends.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
He knows somebody that knows somebody that you haven't unfriended.
Pete Wright:
Yep. It always comes back.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. And I would also tell everyone, talk to a lawyer in your jurisdiction, because some people now are thinking, "Oh my God, I have to go delete all that stuff." Okay. That could be basically what in layman's term is destruction of evidence because it's already out there and you're going through it. Don't start deleting stuff.
Pete Wright:
Don't delete stuff.
Seth Nelson:
Go get some legal advice from your jurisdiction about how to deal with that post that you've already posted and what to do.
Pete Wright:
All right.
Seth Nelson:
We ask for that stuff all the time, and sometimes it's not pretty.
Pete Wright:
Anything digital, texts and emails and Good Reads reviews and Amazon reviews. I'm writing about a pot and my wife would never let me buy this pot so I bought 15 of them and I rate it five stars, and now that's in front of a judge.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly and it's all going to come back, well, why did you buy those 15 pots? Because I was listening to this podcast and Seth said do some stuff that you like to do that you were never allowed to do and I bought these 15 pots and I'm going to try to learn how to cook.
Seth Nelson:
So that's just one thing, and you would like to make, as much as you can, your lawyer's job easy, in the sense of you don't want them to have to defend every little choice that you've made during the pendency of the divorce.
Pete Wright:
That actually encompasses a lot in terms of the kind of experience you want to have as you start reclaiming your time and figuring out what it means to be alone. That seems to me as I'm kind of putting myself in those shoes that that can run into conflict with your emotional experience. I want to share, I'm feeling exuberant. I learned to sky dive while wrestling alligators today. I need to share that with the world and you can't do that yet.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. And, also be smart about where you're spending your money. If you've always wanted to take that trip, I'm not saying don't take the trip, but if you're seeking alimony, so you want payment and you know someone's going to be looking at your finances, and let's say you just always wanted to do this one weekend away and it's going to cost you a thousand dollars. I'm just making up a number. But then you can then show when they say, "Well, isn't it true that you went on a trip and spent a thousand dollars?" Yes. Leaves it at that. Your lawyer gets up and said, "What, if anything, did you not spend money on to save for the thousand dollars?" Oh, for the four months before I did not spend 250 bucks a month on X, which I would normally spend, because I made the choice I would rather go without X and go on this trip. And now it's explained, right? So just be cognizant and thinking of those type of issues. Everything in your life is on display during these trials so don't give them more.
Pete Wright:
All right.
Seth Nelson:
But go do some stuff that you've always wanted to do.
Pete Wright:
But don't post anything about it. This is good stuff. It certainly gets us started. Take care everybody. Don't post to social media. It's tracking everything anyway. Thank you, Seth, for your time and expertise. And thank you everybody for downloading and listening to this show. We sure appreciate you subscribing. If you are a subscriber, if you're not listening to this on the web, if you're say subscribing in Apple podcasts, we sure would appreciate it if you head over there and leave us a five star rating and review. There is just nothing like one of those sweet, sweet reviews to help others discover this show and subscribe when they need it as they are going through their own divorce process. Thank you everybody. On behalf of Seth Nelson, I'm Pete Wright. We'll catch you next week right here on How To Split A Toaster.
Speaker 3:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with Nelson Koster Family Law and Mediation with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How To Split A Toaster is not intended to nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of Nelson Koster. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
This transcript was exported on Dec 16, 2020 - view latest version here.
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