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The Relaxed Running podcast is a behind the scenes conversation with the best athletes, coaches and professionals in the world of distance running. From training, hydration and nutrition to racing and recovering, we learn from the best in the world.
Relaxed conversations which are packed with actionable takeaways to help you take your running performance up a notch. Save yourself years of guess work and learn from the people who are doing it at the highest level.
00:00 - Tyson (Host)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Relaxed Running podcast. Tarsan Popelstone here. Thanks so much for joining. Hey, how crazy. Three weeks until this year is done and dusted. And with that said, I know a lot of you are going into 2024 with the dream, with the goal, of either running your first marathon or absolutely smashing your current marathon best. And with that said, I wanted to do some real hard, hard lifting, hard hitting. I wanted to boil down a whole heap of principles to you into what I believe are the most important elements for you to focus on when it comes to running a marathon PB.
00:37
Now this podcast is broken down into three sections. The first section is training tips. The second section is race day strategies and the final section additional tips. Now, the truth is, the conversation around marathon is broad and it's deep, and it's wide and based on the fact that different athletes require different things. Obviously, a lot of this can be tweaked, but if you're looking for some form of structure to build your marathon training upon, from my experience, from what I've seen in both elite athletes the athletes that I coach and also in my own running experience, I think or at least my goal is I hope I've crossed off everything that we really need to focus on when it comes to building a foundation for marathon preparation or for marathon PB. So, with all of that said, let's get into it. If you've got any questions, as always, jump over to Electronicscom, hit that contact button, shoot your questions through to me. But, with that said, let's jump into it.
01:34
How do we run a marathon PB? Section one let's talk about training tips. The first thing I want to speak about is developing a structured training plan. Now, it doesn't matter whether you're a 5k runner, 100 meter runner, for that matter, or a marathon runner. You're going to want to have certain structures within your training week, certain rhythms, certain things that you know. When you wake up that morning, you know what it is that you're in for. The beauty here is it not only allows you to see the way that your week set out, but it also makes sure you're hitting the important elements, like your long runs and your tempo runs and your speed work and your recovery days.
02:11
Now, as I said at the outset, it's important to understand what works best for you as an individual. Certain athletes can handle more intense weeks. Some people like to do a training session, which is hard on a Tuesday and a Thursday. Other people like to do training sessions on a Tuesday and Friday to allow a little bit more wiggle room within their training week. People like Gordo Byrne, who we've had on the podcast, likes to do five pretty solid days in a row and have a big chunk of time off for 48 hours. But the truth is we only find that out through whether it's trial and error, whether it's through the data that we're actually following which is guiding our weekly structure, or if it's just based on the improvements that we're seeing. So success leaves clues, but I would encourage you to come up with a structured training plan that works for you.
02:59
Now, the one that I use with my athletes is fairly classic here in Australia, and I use this because it's a really great platform. It's a really great scaffold to build your training upon, and that is we do our long runs on a Sunday. We do a session on a Tuesday. Usually that's like your shorter, faster sessions. If you're training for a marathon, that session is going to include things like six to eight by a K. We often try and do around eight K worth of work in the main session and two or three K either that either side of that with a warm up and cool down. So we're going to be running faster than race pace here. This is sort of marathon. Sorry, this is 10 K or half marathon pace that we're focused on here. It can be eight by K, four by two K might be something like a monophat, like there's a variety of different things that we can do there On the Sunday.
03:47
We also schedule in that long run Now our long run for a majority of the year. We can talk about how we build this up soon. For a majority of the year our base is going to be around 90 minutes worth of running. Now, if you're relatively new to running, this is not a place that you start. This is something that, once you've built up to being able to comfortably run 90 minutes on a Sunday on a consistent basis, this serves as a fairly good place to start, whether it's a 12 or 16 week specific marathon buildup. So the Sundays where we get that long run done.
04:19
The Thursdays, a day where we go out and we'll do things like a threshold run or a tempo run Now a lot of this with my athletes. I'm a little old school. I really enjoy going out and doing these runs by feel. A lot of people don't like that. A lot of people like to be guided specifically by heart rate and it really depends. From what I can see, there's so many great examples of people either side of this debate who are really performing well, so I'm not convinced that it's a one size fits all. The beauty with using actual data is that it forces you to slow down when you're actually working harder, which is really beneficial to longevity in a lot of cases, because it's actually holding you back when a lot of people who are going by feel might be like nah, I'm good today, let's just keep rocking and rolling.
05:02
You've got to figure out whether you like to go by feel or like to go by data, but it's a beautiful way to step into a like a close to a lactate threshold kind of run through a tempo or a threshold on that Thursday session and then, obviously, depending on where your fitness is at anywhere in and around the things that I've just mentioned, you long run in two sessions. You're going to be doing some easy runs and usually the Wednesday run is like a mix. It's like your longer middle week run, so that might be around 70 minutes or so. All of that said, that is simply there as a little bit of a reminder or a little bit of a suggestion as to how to structure. You're weak but you might be thinking, yeah, but how many K's should I be running with within those days?
05:45
Now, as I said at the outset, there's certain differences that different athletes have. Some people really thrive well off long, slow Distance, whereas other people 100 K's a week is enough for them to be an elite marathon runner. But the second point that I wanted to talk about touches on this specifically, and that is we've we've got to build our mileage gradually. One of the first things you'll notice with a relatively new runner is they'll get out there and they'll get a little bit of a taste for what it feels like to actually have a good session, to get out there and feel like, oh, this is actually enjoyable. This is what people are speaking about when they're talking about a runners high and they get bit by the bug and, as a result, they'll go from running 20 K a week to 50 K a week, to 80 K a week, to 120 K a week and then inevitably They'll break down, they'll get an injury, they'll plateau, they'll get fatigue, their immune systems tired and All that quick build up serves for nothing really, because if we're looking at this as a game of consistency, which distance running is heavily Revolving around, like distance running really rewards the most consistent athletes.
06:55
The important thing that we do is, each and every week, we make sure that we're not upping too many factors at once, like. A lot of people go by this 10% rule. So if you're running 50 K a week, like, don't go out and run more than 55 K the following week. Now this is obviously just a little bit of a guideline. It's not black and white, it's not all way. Some people can do more, some people require less, but it's. There is a little bit of a measuring stick to say, hey, let's not change too much at once. If you're upping the distance by 10%, let's be focused on not also upping the pace at the same time. You've got to work smart if you want to get the most out of your body. If your goal is longevity, consistency and building strength over time, let's build that mileage gradually. So if you're brand-new to running, maybe that's a walk jog at the start. If you've been around for a little while, maybe it's what I just said. It's a 10% rule.
07:46
When it comes to distance, finding out what a sweet spot is for you. I wish I could give you a black and white answer on the exact amount of case that you should be running to give you your best chance at running a marathon PB. But the truth is a lot of this is Revolving around you as an individual your injury history, your body's ability to handle certain training loads, the surfaces, the intensity, you know, lifestyle stresses, nutrition, things like that. We've got to figure out Exactly what works for you now, what you're going to be doing throughout the base period of your training as well. He's going to be very different to what we're doing, or not very different, but relatively different in terms of intensity and Volume. Then what we're going to be doing sort of 12 to 8 weeks outside of your marathon PB attempt so we're going to have a really nice base throughout the year and then say, 12 weeks out will gradually increase that To get you ready for game day.
08:40
The third thing is that and a lot of marathon runners forget this we want to incorporate speed work. It's really important that we don't just get caught Going out and doing that long, slow running. While that's really important, that aerobic work to build the aerobic strength, to build time on legs, to get you comfortable actually operating for a couple of hours at a time, which is obviously what it's going to take you at the very minimum, when it comes to your marathon race day attempts. We've got to make sure we're turning the legs over faster now. I touched on this in the first point. We want to introduce things like interval training, tempo runs. We want to do things like hill sprints. I'm also a really big fan of just introducing some faster strides that are about like 80 to 100 meters once or twice into our weekly schedule, which you just done after a weekly run.
09:30
There's a couple of factors here. First and foremost, it's psychologically really beneficial to get comfortable running at a pace which is much faster than marathon race pace. Obviously, like, the physiological benefits that come with that are great. Your body's forced to try and function, you know, under fatigue at the bare minimum, but then it also feels better to look at your watch and go hey, I just ran that in four minutes. All I have to do for my marathon best time is five minutes 20, and I've absolutely smashed my marathon time out of the park. So a lot of work at sort of or not a lot of work. At least, I would say one session a week should be dedicated towards trying to improve that speed. Maybe 5K pace, 10k pace and some of the temporary runs at about half marathon pace.
10:14
But the goal is you want to get comfortable operating at a pace which is much faster. You can also see those people who can run around forever at one particular pace, but you ask them to start sprinting and the idea is completely foreign to them. So don't become such a harrier that the idea of a sprint is foreign to you. With that said, I want to move into point four as well. You also want to practice marathon pace.
10:36
Now, there's a variety of reasons this is really important. First of all, you want to know roughly what it feels like to run at the pace that your goal marathon pace requires. But second of all, developing that understanding or that familiarity with what actual marathon pace feels like to you allows you, on race day, to not get caught up with the hype of everything that's going on around you. Like. The energy on race day is huge, and we'll talk about that more soon. But if you have some real clarity on what race pace feels like for you then the beauty here is you're going to be able to adapt to that pace more easily. You're not going to be so likely to just get caught up running at a faster pace than you should be.
11:17
More than this, practicing marathon pace in structured and intelligent ways in your long run is really beneficial as well. So what a lot of athletes do they might get 90 minutes into a run and then they'll say, okay, so for the next 30 minutes I'm just going to practice, while I'm fatigued, running at marathon pace. You don't have to be a genius to understand that. If you can go into marathon pace for 30 minutes feeling a little bit fatigued, a little bit heavy in your legs, and you can actually hit that, then the confidence that comes with that again but because of the physiological changes that are taking place but also mentally you can do this while you're fatigued takes a really big positive momentum with you into your actual marathon race day. A lot of it is around confidence. If you don't believe me, check out the team Ingebrigtsen Documentary which I spoke about earlier in the week. But practice that marathon pace. It's a really important part of your training program. Now I've just touched on it.
12:10
But the fifth thing I want to talk about here is your long runs. If you're training for a marathon, you've got to build endurance. Now a lot of this, if you're a heart rate fan, is going to be done at around zone two level. That's a conversational pace. You want to go out there. It's relatively comfortable, but you're out there for quite a while. You want your body to get used to practicing running the amount of time that you're required to run on race day. Now this doesn't mean that every run is going to be you know, say, if you're aiming to run three hours for a marathon, definitely not saying you got to go out and run three hours each and every week, but you want your body to get used to operating for around about race length. Now it's very important that I'm clear here. That's going to be a gradual buildup. Maybe you only do like one three hour run before your actual marathon. Maybe you won't even go out for that long.
12:57
What Gordo Burns speaks about is actually substituting the aerobic work with something else. So if you've got a marathon coming up and you're thinking you want to run four and a half hours, it'd be really dumb for you to go out and try and run four and a half hours every Sunday. But what you can do is, with a bike, go out and maybe run for 30 minutes at zone two pace and then jump on a bike for 30 minutes and alternate that. You might do that for a couple of hours depending on your current fitness level, your family commitments, your other commitments, but what that does is it gives you the opportunity to actually practice being out there for the amount of time that you're required to be out there for the marathon, without the stress on your legs and your joints that, like a three or four hour run is going to introduce to you. Now it's really important that you work with someone who knows what they're doing here, and I'm definitely not just saying, okay, go out and like, if you're trying to do four and a half hours, then every Sunday do four and a half hours worth of work. This is something that you might just do from time to time, but the long runs is obviously a key component of your marathon preparation, and the distance that you're going to be covering there is going to change both in volume and intensity depending on where you're at in the actual buildup to the marathon race, and obviously it's going to diminish quite rapidly around a couple of weeks outside of marathon race day.
14:15
The final point in the opening section here is rest and recovery. Now, you know it, we know it's true, but sometimes it's so important to be constantly reminded about the things that are most obvious to us, because we can often get caught up on data and on race times and on training times and on speed and on volume and, as a result, we assume that, because we're doing all of those things well, that we're going to see the results that we want to see. Truth is, we need to make sure that we're getting our sleep. We've got to prioritize this. We've got to listen to our body. We've got to have potential rest days or at least down days.
14:49
I'm a lot nicer bloke when I'm out there doing something. I prefer to do something each day. So even for me, if it's a relatively light day, I like to go and turn the legs over or go to the gym or do some form of mobility or flexibility or Pilates. I'm not sure what works best for you, but it is important that you're giving your body the chance to rest and recover in between the more intense work now, depending on how fit you are, how strong you are, how consistent you've been. Your injury history, yeah, sort of like the ability that you've had to go out there day after day for a certain period of time. That's going to dictate how many days a week that you're actually going to be training. If you're brand new to it, four days a week of training is huge. You might have a few easier days. What you'll notice is, with a lot of elite runners, they'll do something more in line with what I said works for me have a couple of down days, some slower days. Be like Jen Griggs and then jump in the water and do some water running. Take the load off your legs, speak with someone you trust. If you don't know anyone in the running world, feel free to shoot me an email. Tell me a bit about yourself and I'd be happy to point you in the right direction.
15:56
The second section is race day strategies. Now, obviously, the training that we've just ticked off in the first section really important, hugely important. But what can't be underestimated is how important our approach to the actual race is. So the first thing that we want to talk about when it comes to race day strategies. It also is very important when it comes to training. We practice this in training. That is, nutrition and hydration. So, obviously, race day specifics, nutrition and hydration is very important. You want to know, hey, what fuels you well, what food feels best in your stomach before you get out there and actually start running. How long before your race do you like to have those foods? What volume of carbohydrates feels comfortable? How much water do you like to have? You want to have these things absolutely dialed down throughout training. So the goal in training is not just to get you physically fit, but to really dial into zone, into things like nutrition and hydration, and practice different things on Different runs until you get to a point where you're really confident in what it is that you're doing.
17:03
Now, a lot of you guys know that I've worked fairly closely with precision fuel and hydration and they are a sponsor to the show. But they're a sponsor to the show because I love their product, not for any other reason. So I invited them to be a sponsor to the show for that reason. The reason I love these guys is because of the fact that a lot of the time, when it comes to hydration, we're purely thinking about water one of my good mates back in 2012 I think it was Joker ran the Melbourne Marathon and the day before he absolutely smashed water more water than you'd ever have before. And it's a real rookie mistake, because if you all of a sudden just absolutely up your water intake before a marathon, you're gonna need to go to the toilet more and as you go to the toilet, you're getting rid of a whole heap of important components that are gonna be really beneficial.
17:49
So you want to use something like precision fuel and hydration, because it actually helps fuel you with the things that you lose in your sweat. So they've got an individualized sweat test which is frail. Link that in the show notes to this fit you guys to jump over and consider what would be the most appropriate way to refuel yourself when it comes to you know, both the, the supplements that you're using and the gels and things. But essentially, what I'm trying to say is you've got to have a really solid plan of what you're losing. Sorry, you're really solid understanding of what you're losing when you sweat and how to replace it and then how often you should be refueling those things. Essentially, I think the best way to break this first point down is to say, okay, nutrition is something which is very individualized, very personalized, but there's some core things in place. Majority of people are using carbohydrates as their main fuel source. Maybe start there, do some research in and around that and then from there. If you're interested in going out and experimenting with other things, sure do that. But let's practice before we make any rapid changes, because if you're making too many changes at once, you're obviously not going to get the chance to actually see what works.
18:57
The second thing is and we touched on this briefly In point one a bit, but it's pacing. You know, or you should at least know, what pace you're trying to run. If you're going out there with the intention of running a marathon PB, you want to know how fast is it per K, how fast is it per mile, and then focus on that. The marathon is a long way, and one thing the lot of novice runners make the mistake of doing is going out at a pace which they definitely cannot handle for a marathon. The problem with that is you. You might go out and be so far ahead of pace for 10k or a half marathon, but the race really doesn't start until 30k. If you get to 30k and you're way ahead of marathon time but you're fatigued. You're in a really bad situation. Ideally, if you've got some wiggle room, start at a pace which is slightly give yourself some some wiggle room, five to ten seconds Outside your marathon pace. Don't let it get too far away from you. But if you can get to 30k feeling strong and you're within a minute or two minutes of you know exactly, maybe two minutes of stretching it, but if you're within a minute or so of where you'd like to be but you feel strong, that is a really great place to be. So aim to run that last 12Ks at a faster pace than you'd run up until that point, because the confidence that comes with passing people at that particular point in the race is really, really beneficial.
20:15
The third point is breaking your race into segments. Now, as I've said there, a lot of people think that the 21K mark is the halfway mark, but physically it's really not. Consider the 30K mark your halfway point. If you're like me, I often picture like just that classic pie chart and I'll think of just over 10K. That first quarter of the pie has gone. This is a mental thing which allows me to just build confidence, build momentum as I go through the race, if I can get a little bit of a visual representation of how far into it I am by breaking the race down into segments. That's a really beneficial thing as well. Different horses for different courses this is something I love speaking to people about. How do they actually picture where it is they find themselves when they're in the race? But for me, that classic pie chart is really beneficial.
21:01
The fourth thing, which is overused but so true, is we have to, throughout our training, develop a more positive mindset. A lot of the time, when things are going really well in training, it's easy to be optimistic and it's easy to be happy and it's easy to be positive, but the truth is marathon training is gonna constantly throw curveballs at us. I don't think I've ever met someone who's had the perfect lead up to a marathon race. There's always gonna be a niggle, there's gonna be an illness, there's gonna be a stress, there's gonna be something that you have to deal with. Now you might have. If you've heard me on here before, you might have heard me speak about cognitive behavior therapy or a really popular psychological tool used to challenge negative assumptions or negative stories that you've created around a particular situation, and it's really helpful because, obviously, if you're taking a more positive mindset into a race or you're applying a positive mindset to a difficult situation within a race, then your ability to deal with that challenge is obviously gonna be far more positive.
22:00
So different things that you could do is I know a lot of people like to visualize what a really good race plan looks like, maybe from the start of the race to the half marathon and beyond. Have a little bit of a race plan and get yourself mentally ready for what it is that you're gonna put yourself through. Get yourself familiar with some of the diffs, comforts that you're gonna face, whether that be cramping or tightness or stitches or whatever else it is. Chances are something will come up within the race that's gonna require you to see it with a more positive light, because the truth is you don't have to look far to see that some people are so thrown out by mine and hiccup in their race that it could have been a great day at the office where they could have smashed a PB had they had better control over the mindset. Once again, Jacob Ingebrigtsen was a great example of what a really positive mindset looks like when it comes to race day performance. It's no coincidence that the best runners in the world also seem to speak with the highest level of confidence around what they're capable of doing, whether that's natural or whether it's something that they've developed. A positive mindset is really important for you on race day.
23:07
The fifth thing I wanna talk about here is race specific gear. You're not trying anything brand new on race day. It's really important that you've practiced in the shoes that you're running in. They're practiced in. Put it this way, I would say that your long runs or your faster sessions are also an opportunity not just to practice the long runs and the nutrition and the hydration, but also to figure out, hey, what feels most comfortable on you. You wanna be absolutely comfortable and confident in the gear that you're wearing when you get out there on race day. There is absolutely no need to throw another stress on what is already gonna be a really challenging day for you. Have this absolutely dialed in so that when you're standing there, you know for a fact that it's tried, it's tested. You're not gonna have any issues with the shoes, with the shirt, with the shorts. You're 100% comfortable in what it is that you're wearing.
23:58
The last section of this is just some additional tips. Now, really important that, with the additional tips, we take into consideration that some of these require some trial and error. So the first thing I've got written down is just learning from previous races. This doesn't mean you have to have done a marathon before. This just means, hey, what worked well in your last race and what didn't? Maybe it's the gear, maybe it's the hydration. I would also add it doesn't have to just be from past races, it can be from past training sessions.
24:27
If you've gone out one morning and you felt absolutely $1 million on your long run, things have just clicked. Yet You're feeling high in energy, you feel as though you're flowing. What did the last couple of days look like? What have you been eating? How many times did you go to the toilet? What have you been drinking? Every now and then you'll have a race which leaves some clues, or a training session, for that matter, which leaves some clues around what you should be doing on a more regular basis. I would say pay really close attention to what works and the flip side of that pay really close attention to what doesn't work. If you get 15Ks into a long run and you're fatigued, you're tired. Why? What have you been eating? Have you been eating? Are you hydrated? Have you been having the right supplements and fueling strategies in place to make sure that you're more likely to get across the line? Really important to pay attention to that.
25:17
The second thing for the additional tips is you might want to cross train. Cross training, as I've mentioned, is a really beneficial way to continually build your aerobic base without the stress on the legs. So maybe jumping on a stationary bike, maybe jumping in the pool, doing some water running or some swimming is beneficial to you. Alternating the bike with the runs this is something that a lot of triathletes are more familiar with, but distance runners can learn from as well. If your goal is to build your aerobic base, you don't have to go out all at once. If you're relatively new to the sport and you're in a hurry to build your aerobic base, this is important for you to consider as well. There's going to be stresses on your body from running that cycling and swimming don't offer. So if you can mix around the load a little bit, that's really beneficial.
26:01
Third thing is you want to consider your muscle strength. You should be doing some form of strength training. That might be a couple of days in the gym For me. I like to do a combination of I do three sessions a week, I do two in the gym lifting some form of weights and I also do a bonus Pilates session under the guidance or because of the guidance, I should say of Dr John Quinn, who's been on the podcast quite a few times. So if you don't have a strength training routine in place, I would really encourage you to speak to someone that you trust around building a strength training plan for marathon running or at least distance running. This is so helpful, for you know little technical areas. This can really help you technically improve your running performance just through being more efficient, but also can just help complement the running by hopefully reducing a little bit of the stress on the joints and allowing some of the muscles to absorb that.
26:58
The final thing that I'll leave you with is I would really encourage you to get some professional coaching. Now, as I've mentioned a couple of times here that might be through me, I've linked my coaching packages in the description to this episode. So if you're interested in starting a fresh in 2024, feel free to reach out. But I mean, if you've got someone who's just been in the sport for longer than you that you trust. Reach out to them, ask them some questions, figure out what it is that people are doing. That don't work, that do work, and just save yourself so much time in trial and error.
27:28
People have been there and done what you're trying to do before. Ask them if you can. As always, feel free to reach out to me. I'd be more than happy to help guide you in any way that I can, whether that's on a more personal level, through coaching, or even if it's just through answering some of your questions. So don't hesitate to reach out. For now, though, happy training, happy racing. I hope you guys having a great, getting a little bit of a chance to have some downtime before Christmas and, hey, I look forward to speaking to you all here again next week.