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' - Mining the hearts and minds of unorthodox teachers'
The Junkyard Love Podcast is for people who know they’re meant for more - but don’t want to take someone else's route.
These are longform, soul-level conversations with thinkers, artists, mystics, scientists, teachers, philosophers, leaders, comedians, authors, musicians, educators, misfits, millionaires, meditators, psychologists, and much more - and they've burned down their old beliefs to build something truer. This is a show for the life-long learner. Each episode offers real-life insight - and it could be the exact part that our soul-vehicles need to hear, in that precise moment. The Junkyard Love Podcast - for a better life.
Junkyard Love podcast. At what age do we learn about our better job?
Speaker 2:Junkyard Love podcast.
Speaker 1:David Craig, welcome to the Junkyard Love podcast, my brother. It's it's an absolute pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for agreeing to do this. Like I I've said a million times, I'm over the moon. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:I love it. Thank you, man.
Speaker 2:Thank you for the opportunity. Pleasure is all mine, really.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just see just seeing you again and seeing you flourish is amazing to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a beautiful thing to be able to have our teachers on our Facebook still. It sounds like this low, like, oh, it's kind of nice, but it's actually very beautiful. How does that feel for you as a teacher to have your students in like, you know, you have your couple years with them, and you get to know them intricately, and then you watch them grow for ten-fifteen years later? What what is that even like?
Speaker 2:It's pretty amazing. I have about, I think about six fifty former students on my Facebook. And, you know, just see them flourish, like you said, see them have kids, be parents, all that stuff. What's really cool through Facebook, I've kind of been able to not only keep tabs on them, but I've actually like visited them and gone to their weddings and things like that, know, so you can't really put a value on that. I mean, it's just amazing that you're able to do that, and this technology kind of gives us that opportunity, you know?
Speaker 2:And you're right, I only knew them for a short couple of years, but now some of them are like 50 years old and stuff. They're grandparents. So it's really cool to see them progress through their own lives. And of course, there's a double edged sword to everything, and unfortunately, some people haven't made it that were my students, And that's, you know, tragic, of course. But, you know, that's kind of the way life rolls.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to be able to have that open connection with them and kind of like drop in and see what they're doing. And also, you know, if they ever need some advice from old Mr. Craig, you know, they can they have that open door.
Speaker 1:Know, we have our magic rectangle that's just an open window to great perspective and advice if they want to, you know.
Speaker 2:It's funny. It's quite a few of them have advantage of that opportunity over the years.
Speaker 1:What have they said? Like, what are kind of the you don't have to share like super details, what is the kind of thing that someone approaches you with of like, hey, can I get your perspective on this?
Speaker 2:Well, think a lot of times it's the posts that they make on, and then I kind of like throw out something to kind of soothe their, what others ailing them or something like that, and then they'll message me privately and tell me this is what's happened. They'll tell me something that's happened in their life, and then from there I just give them kind of my perspective on it, and at the very least it kind of gives them an opportunity to realize, hey, this is gonna pass. I have what it takes to get over this. And I've talked some people off a ledge, frankly. Know, they've just wanted to throw up their hands and give up And whatever encouraging word that I said to them ended up telling them to take the step towards the future, you know, instead of just throwing up their hands and giving up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a really powerful position to be in. I've had my own instances of those same things. I was just talking with a friend the other day. He texted me.
Speaker 1:He's another Celtic guy, class twenty ten. And he texted me this long text. He's like, Man, I just I was driving and it was wet outside. You know, there was a big puddle. And he said he was about to smash the puddle.
Speaker 1:But last second, noticed that there was there was a guy that he would have just totally douched if he hit it. So he like kind of swerved and he like, I guess he kind of made eye contact with the guy of like, I see you, you know. He kept going and then he was he parked and he was going to the gym or something. And the guy approached him and the guy was like held out his hand and said, Hey, man, I just want to say thank you for not splashing me. Like, you know, you didn't have to go out of your way to not splash me.
Speaker 1:And I noticed that you did. So thank you. And he kind of expressed he was having a tough day and that like really helped him out. And so it's just like, man, I was just acting off these like little intuitions of not even necessarily like I'm going save this guy's life, but just being encouraging to someone or giving them like a hey, you're okay. It's pretty powerful stuff.
Speaker 1:Know, it could be everything. It could be something so small to us, natural to us a lot of the times, like a lot of us are so loving, you know, if we just lean into it a little bit, you know? Something so little to us could be massive to someone else, you know?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's really a surprise to them that I am still monitoring them or following them. And sometimes they say some things that alarm me that realize that they're hurting in some ways. And just the fact that I can say something to them, something positive, which is what I used to do with them. I said positive things back in the day, and of course, they all trust me, and then they just, they're okay after that, then they go forward, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And like you said, that positive thing, I mean, you know, and I don't even a lot of times try to solve their problem and just say, hey, listen, you can do this. This is going to pass. This is kind of the way things are, you know? You got to keep going forward and then everything's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. A little encouragement goes a long way. Yes. Especially from a from a figure that they trust, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So so what was that like? I mean, now and then even, you know, when you because I think about me, like my sister and I were talking about, you know, like we didn't we didn't necessarily at that time, we certainly didn't have a father figure that we, you know, and I don't want to project like you, you know, project father figureness all over you, you know. But I wonder, like, do you do you contemplate that? Like, you know, are you aware when you're a teacher of, hey, I kind of know that these kids don't really have someone they're looking up to at home.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to lean in a little more or is this is this really just like a non intentional natural state for you to be in? Guess like what's what's that position like?
Speaker 2:So I think back in those days, I made, you know, my learning environment a safe place for people to be. And, you know, let's be honest, I wasn't attracting the football player cheerleader type, you know, the ones that you would call the cool kids, right? I attracted kids that needed a place to be, a safe place, and I provided that safe place. And man, along the way, I made it super fun for them. They're like, Woah, this dude, know, he's making things safe for me.
Speaker 2:There's no judgment here. He doesn't allow it. You know, we're kind of like this cool community. We have our thing here. Word-of-mouth's kinda spread, and the next thing you know, my classes were bustling at the seams.
Speaker 2:And there were some kids that I spent a lot of time with more than others, like for example, your sister. I mean, I spent a lot of time with her because she helped me with almost everything that had to do with the technical side. I relied on her heavily. In fact, there's many times I'd tell her, Hey, Katie, you gotta go to class sometime. And I would have kids that would show up that weren't like, okay, why are you here?
Speaker 2:You should be in another class, but they wanted to be there. And I think kids naturally saw me as that person that they could look to, father figure, whatever it was. I don't think I leaned in anymore for anybody unless they came to me and I thought they needed that. So yeah, it pretty much came naturally for me. Everywhere I've gone.
Speaker 1:It's a it's a it's a good place to be. It's like we were talking about before. And I probably said on this podcast a bunch of times we're talking about, you know, how you can kind of work on yourself in a way or like your relationship with yourself allows you to show up and then be an environment for others to then do the same. It's cool, when you're a teacher, especially we had that great theater at Kelso too. Your space of just your personhood that people felt comfortable in, it extended, you know, like it extended to that theater there, just like a car when we're driving, like you can kind of sense the edges of where your bumpers are.
Speaker 1:You kind of know where everything is. It kind of becomes you in a sense like the room you're in, if you're a powerfully a powerful being that like allows other people to feel safe in that environment, you became that stage too, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right. And what's really interesting is, I mean, we always met in that back room first, then but once we got to the stage, everything kind of came to life. And as kids grew confident, they started doing some magical things there. They just felt really good in their own skin. They just started creating things.
Speaker 2:And man, we saw some magical things on this stage. Like I was in Bend a couple of weeks ago and I saw this, they had this kind of like community comedy show where this guy kind of organized. And at the end, they had this group of improv people. You know, they went up there and they would throw out some kind of idea and do the improv. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the whole time I kept on thinking, you know what, if they could have just seen these kids at Kelso, I don't know, twenty years ago, or whatever how many years ago was, they could realize that they look like amateurs up there, even though they're these older people that are, you know, that's their thing, right? That's what they do for fun, right? Yeah. And they had this kind of little improv troupe they had a kind of acute name for, but man, some of the things that happened on that stage was just amazing. I mean, to this day, when I go and see any kind of play or anything, I realized just how close I got to almost being professional even.
Speaker 2:Was just it's scary.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The the natural talent. I I think back like some of those guys that were in that class, like I I mean, they're just awesome guys anyway. But like just the talent that was displayed and I remember so we did I can't remember if it was my senior year or my junior year, but it was it was one of your times we did a like a like 10 skits or something. It's basically like an improv night, there were skits.
Speaker 1:It
Speaker 2:was a variety show. Included the choir. Did musical numbers in between.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Mean, thinking back to that, mean, maybe if I watched a video, it wouldn't be as gut bustingly funny, but I think I feel like those were some really funny skits. Those guys were smart, man. We had some funny stuff in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Know what's really interesting? Those are the days when we had these things called rubrics. I don't know if you remember this or not, or I was even doing this at the time when, because I was there eight years, so there's a stretch of people, right? So I had these rubrics and you would rate whatever their skid or whatever performance they did from one to four, and of course beforehand I introduced the rubric and what I was looking for, and kids over and over again hit the fours, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, it was not a stretch for them because like you said, it was so much talent there and I seemed to be able to bring it out, right? But I kept on saying to myself, okay, we have these rubrics to go by, and all the kids are pretty sure that they can meet these rubrics. Very few even got threes. I mean, everything was just coming out was dynamic. But then I started I got this inspiration.
Speaker 2:I was like, you know what? I wanna take it to another level. Can I take it to another level? So I come up with this idea. It just came to me.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know what inspired it other than I just wanted to take it to another level to start giving out fives once in a while. And when I gave out a five, kids would go a five, but it only goes to four. And I go, when you get a five, that means you did something extraordinary amazing. Then they go, so then afterwards people go, well, we should have a rubric for a five, you know, so we know how to achieve that. I go, no, when everybody sees the five, everybody will know it, and I will definitely know it because you know, I'm a trained eye, but I said, it'll be so overwhelmingly cool and amazing and entertaining and just dynamic that everyone will know, hey, that's a five.
Speaker 2:Yep. And of course I started giving kids instant feedback after they did skits. So the other kids could hear me say what I was gonna say, and I never rarely said anything negative at all. So after a while, kids kept coming to me, man, man, did I get a five? Did I get a five?
Speaker 2:And the next thing you know, the level, which was already high, went to this stratosphere. It went to the strat I think you had already graduated actually when I had come up with this inspiration, and I was seeing some magical things. I mean, it was just, and they were like trying to top each other. It was like, oh my gosh, I gotta get a five. I gotta get a five, you know?
Speaker 2:And it was pretty special period of time there.
Speaker 1:Well, it's, I mean, it's so crazy. It really is fascinating to raise the bar and realize how valiantly and wonderfully people will raise right to it. Know what I mean? It reminds me of Travis Pastrana. He was the first one to land the first backflip on a on a BMX or a dirt bike.
Speaker 2:I know who he is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then so, you know, right after that, within weeks, days or whatever it was, everyone's nailing backflips. It's like, you know, the four minute mile same thing, right? And it so cool that by being inspiring, by just being encouraging, by saying, Hey, I think you could do better. And they're like, Okay, I guess we'll try to do better.
Speaker 1:And there was like, we could do better. It's exciting. It's contagious. It's very fun to be inspiring and encouraging. And I'm sure your attitude as the teacher, even when you're out of earshot, I bet you the peer to peer conversation was fairly encouraging as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the word-of-mouth there was amazing. It got to the point where there were so many kids in the classes, like we had to start thinking about, okay, maybe we have to put a waiting list or something. And what's really weird is I actually got called into the powers that be, I won't really go into that too much, and they actually thought I was recruiting. So I was like, no, it's just that these kids are taking it to the streets themselves and selling this. In fact, you know, if the kids weren't included in the class, someone were just showing up, like I said before, and I'd have to say, hey, why are you here?
Speaker 2:You know? It's like, you know, you're gonna get me in trouble here, right?
Speaker 1:Well, Katie told me I could come.
Speaker 2:Thought I was recruiting so that I could make more money, you know, and of course I've never been, you know, monetarily, you know, motivated, you know, this wasn't about that. This was just about the magic that came, and what was really cool about is I never really defined what a five was, but everybody knew where what, you know, I wanted something better, and that's what they just kept going for.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Knowing that it's attainable, knowing that it's that it's there and that that you could hit it, you know, it's and also, I think what's fun about acting and creating is, you know, when you're trying to it's just like jamming with a band, like, you know, that you could hit that thing where you guys just get in the groove and you're going, you're like, oh, we're in it now. You know, we're we're making a song, we're jamming, like we're creating the thing, Just knowing that it's available and knowing that the people around you and you are collectively working towards it is that's that's like this guy, Rafe. Oh, jeez.
Speaker 1:I forget his name. Darn it. Rafe Kelly, maybe. He is like a parkour guy, you know, like a like like running and, like, jumping and doing, like, tricks and whatever. And they talk about serious play.
Speaker 1:And he breaks down parkour as being serious play. It's like this athletic endeavor of people together that they turn the world into a jungle gym. Think since I heard about that, I always see other areas where serious play is a thing. You know, we're talking about our teenage years, for sure. You know, we're outside of our adolescence when we're talking about this.
Speaker 1:But I think even in drama class and improv class and in acting, that's definitely a place for serious play. Like you can finally set down the whatever you think you need to be, whatever, you know, you're mad at your mom because she made you do this and whatever, you know, you got your teenage things. But in your class, get to set it all down and have some serious play. You don't have to be yourself so much. You could just express and have fun and you could be laughter with your friends.
Speaker 2:You know, what was really cool about that whole thing is when I showed up on the scene, and as you know, usually you have a textbook with a class, right? There was no textbook. So everything that you got, Jacob, I created pretty much. I mean, I borrowed some stuff, you know, that I knew like some of the drama games, but some of those drama games I come up with myself, And kids would just like, okay, what are we gonna do today? They were like coming.
Speaker 2:It got to the point as every year went by, I had to keep topping myself. I had to create new games. I had to come up with new exercises for them to do. Like, you know, I think, do you remember Uncle Joe's funeral when we did that elaborate thing, Uncle Joe's funeral?
Speaker 1:It doesn't ring a bell yet, but
Speaker 2:you Well might anyway, so I come up with these scenarios, Uncle Joe's funeral, heroes, bomb shelter, and all these kinds of scenarios, and they all had to create characters. And we went in this deep dive, like they created their own story as it kind of evolved, right? And created their characters and stuff. Especially like the one with the heroes that was, you know, they had to create their own superhero. And I told them, you can't duplicate it.
Speaker 2:You gotta come up with your own original superhero to fit into this. And I would give them a scenario, right? And this, I mean, we would spend, I don't know, four or five weeks doing this thing, and it was just, it was like almost like we produced our own movie on the stage, you know? And I just, it just kept getting crazy like that. And then I, they come in the next year and they go, okay, which one are we gonna do this time?
Speaker 2:We did Uncle Joe's Funeral because the first couple of years I used Uncle Joe's Funeral because it was so brilliant, all the different characters. And Uncle Joe's Funeral, I kind of gave the characters, right? And then they had to choose them and then kind of make the character their own. But as time went by, they started creating their own characters within the scenario. So I just kept building and building and building.
Speaker 2:But man, they challenged me to come up with new stuff all the time, you know? And it's just amazing because it was kind of a mystery, like, okay, what's he going to do today? You know, they would come in, what are we gonna do today? What are
Speaker 1:we gonna do today?
Speaker 2:And I was so excited. And it was just like almost overwhelming. But for some reason, I was able to keep that challenge. And being a kind of a creative person, it fed into that whole love of creating things, For me, and it just kept challenging me, you know, and I just kept on somehow I delivered.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Mean, it's very inspiring. I think I said something like that in a message. But from my standpoint, when I was younger, I think I saw you.
Speaker 1:I always just loved I admired any adult who could kind of like break the adult mold, like the like what we're so serious and we go to meetings and like, I don't know, have for some reason, I had this like when I was a kid, I just I wanted to just like you, you're playing a game and you don't know it, like, just just chill out for a second. Like, let's just, you know, let's just talk. I had this like weird thing. And I never got that from you. Like, it didn't seem like you're trying to ever play any games.
Speaker 1:Were just who you were. Right.
Speaker 2:Here's another thing too is, you got to be honest, I got the unmotivated. And I took the unmotivated and motivated them. And it just kept happening over and over. Here's an example I'm talking about. Sometimes through word-of-mouth, I'd get a guy that didn't really fit in there, because I had a certain type of kid that was flourishing there, and they would show up and they would do one of two things.
Speaker 2:They would either go, Oh, I want to check this out because it's kind of fun. Because every day in my class pretty much was fun. And I don't think any teacher could say their class was as fun as mine. I'll stand till the day I die to say that. Or they would come in and try to bully me, like misbehave on purpose and do all that.
Speaker 2:And you know what? I would just go, Okay, what's this guy about? And he would come in, and a lot of times it would be seniors. For some reason, older kids would do this. And the other kids would take this kid aside and say, Listen, knock it off.
Speaker 2:This is Mr. Craig. You're gonna respect him. If you don't wanna be here, transfer out because we wanna have fun and you're delaying our fun. In fact, I would just say, well, you know, that's one of the things I would say, well, we're not gonna go to the fun as long as we're misbehaving.
Speaker 2:And so I've never really had to control my class. I'd just have to say something like that and they would just police themselves. And it got to the point where you get a guy like that, they would police them for me. I wouldn't even have to go and talk to them. The kid would do one of two things.
Speaker 2:He would leave or he'd stay. And I'd often have those type of kids that would stay and flourish. And then they would come up to me on their scene, when they were graduating and say, You know what? I wish I would have taken this when I was a freshman, because you taught me so much more than any other class in a lot of life skills. Like I became confident.
Speaker 2:I felt good about myself. I always felt good when I was in your class. It was always positive. And I realized that, me, I have this kind of side where I pick on others to make myself feel good, I didn't have to do that anymore. What a great class this is.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like, wish I would have taken a long time ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I got that over and over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's powerful, though. I mean, to like be able to reach that kid who refuses to be reached. You know what I mean? And and you did it by not not saying like, I'm authority and you need to do what I say. But you did it by fostering the environment to where like, you know, you're I'm gonna use the word cronies, your cronies basically like came in and were like, Hey, man, this place is cool.
Speaker 1:Like, if you lean in, it's like, we're gonna have some fun here. Let's do this thing, you know?
Speaker 2:Right, right. And, you know, it was a beautiful thing because I didn't really have to, you know, do any kind of disciplinary stuff because everybody just was like, hey, we want to have fun. We get it. Everyone's wanting to have to remind them, you know, because as a group, they might get a lot high end. And then mainly because when you're playing, mean, I'm not gonna rein in that too much.
Speaker 2:Right? I wanted the play to happen. Right? Because like you said, that's what I really accentuated. And there were certain things that they love that I didn't do a lot.
Speaker 2:I made them special. Like I had this game called Silent Frozen Bombs. I don't know if you remember that one.
Speaker 1:I don't know. My memory, I'm sorry. I'm sure I had a blast, but
Speaker 2:Well, anyways, when I say silent, you just walk around on stage silently and move. And then I'd say freeze and you'd have I
Speaker 1:remember this.
Speaker 2:If you move, then you'd be out in the audience, right? And if I said bomb, you had hit the floor, right?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And that game was so fun for everybody. They just figured like, hey, let's play silent froze. Because you know, I'd always have two or three, you know, things like clump or upside ways down or something that we would do to warm up, right? And but silent frozen bombs, I always, I'd go in, we're gonna do silent frozen bombs, and they would go, oh, you know, they'd get, they'd start cheering, boss, right? And there was, I can't remember who he was.
Speaker 2:There was one guy who was like, it was hard to eliminate him. And of course I had these little tricks. It really, you know, I knew it was my own creative thing, but it wasn't really a takeoff on Simon Says in a way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Well, Okay. So how do you see in retrospect now that you look back or I mean, maybe even during that time you were acutely aware of it? How do you see how you taught differently than than maybe other teachers?
Speaker 1:And I'm not just saying like at Kelso High School, I'm just saying like teachers or like anybody with a teaching opportunity to young people as a young person, if that teacher isn't inspired with what they're doing, it's hard for the kid doesn't necessarily get inspired. And I feel like, you know, you led with your inspiration, like it's just at the front of your chest, you know, and I feel like that's why I mean, someone like me when I was, know, I was I was a little, you know, kind of a punk rock kid. Like, I didn't really like other people telling me what to do, but I was just I was so willing to do whatever whatever you had going on, you know? So I I guess I wonder, like, and I also think about I'm always thinking about, like, new teachers who might be listening, like how maybe they could approach their own teaching life too. Yeah, I guess maybe just being inspired as a teacher or a leader versus not being inspired.
Speaker 1:Like, where do you see the importance of that?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, obviously, as a student, when I was growing up, I had a role model that I looked to. And, you know, at that time, of course, I never knew I was going to be a teacher someday, even though this guy really totally inspired me. And frankly, when I became a teacher, there's a guy named by the name of Greg Shook, and this is, I grew up in Southern California, and this guy looked like Warren Beatty, when he was regularly good looking, Warren Beatty, I don't know if you know anything about him, but he's kind of a legendary guy with the women. This guy would, I mean, we'd see him at lunchtime today, sometimes he had a sports car back in those days when everybody had these fuddy duddy cars, and he always had his, know, seemed like he was dating a beautiful woman. And so it was like, I was completely drawn to him.
Speaker 2:And then he used to, he's taught this thing called contemporary affairs, and of course, this was during the Vietnam War, so we had a lot to talk about, right? This shows you how old I am, but and he dressed like, I don't know, look dressed like, well, he kind of dressed like Steve McQueen, you know, he was just this cool guy, right? And he'd walk in and he had some pointed toe boots and just everybody was just like, wow, this guy's terrific. And he has this complete charisma. And so when I became a teacher, that was kind of my role model for what I wanted to be.
Speaker 2:And to me, it's like, even though you have to have your own style, I kind of borrowed from him in a certain way. And he was kind of a rebel and I've always been kind of this rebellious guy. I mean, I gotta tell you that I really thought outside the box most of the time I was teaching there, when you were in my student, and that didn't go over very well, because when you dare to be different, which is my lifetime motto, and that's definitely the way Greg Shook was, you become a target for those of the powers that be, and sometimes it's a green eye of jealousy, right? And they wanna try to think, what's this guy doing? What's he have?
Speaker 2:And for me to transfer that whole thing, even though Greg Shook was my model, and what's really interesting about him is he would talk about the Vietnam War and he'd have all these great insights and we were all learning and we're all like, I couldn't wait to get to his class, right? Because it was so exciting. But then one day the administrators came to him and said, where's the books? And he started to have, he says, I'm sorry, but I gotta take the books out. So we'd have these books and then we'd start reading the boring stuff and we're like, and then finally, I think he did it maybe two class periods, and then when we showed up the third class period, he started reading the books and he said, Ah, what the heck?
Speaker 2:And he threw the book against the wall and just said, collect the books up. We're going back the way I wanna do it. And, you know, I mean, there's a lot of risks to that, you know, and not to and I never had a textbook to go by while I was there, you know, I didn't have it all, mapped out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, and you know, when I came to school, I had fun too. I mean, I was making all of you guys have fun too, not making you, you joined in the fun. But man, that wasn't like work to me then. I mean, I've taught other things over the years. Right?
Speaker 2:A good teacher can teach anything. But when you bring your own style and your own creativity and your own curriculum and your own it becomes your baby. Right? And you start tweaking it, and you see the results of it. And I mean, you know, you talk about somebody's love language and their love tank being full, you know, like mine is words of affirmation.
Speaker 2:I can tell you what, kids would come in every single day and give me words of affirmation. And of course, I would return it too. Yeah. I never was negative. I didn't judge them, you know?
Speaker 2:And if you're a teacher and you wanna be in that little box that they put you in, it's gonna be a part day for you. And it's getting to the point now, you know, where teachers hands are kind of tied. They can't get as close to students as I once did. I'd like to see them go back to that.
Speaker 1:Do you do you see a world where we might be leaning more more back into that? Don't.
Speaker 2:I see I see it going Yeah, the other I don't. In fact, the call the people that I know they're still teaching. They just can't wait to get out. And it used to be such a joy to go to class and teach people like you and your sister. And, you know, I can name constantly, you know, just down the road.
Speaker 2:There was kids that that were so unsure of themselves and so not feeling good about being in their own skin. They were getting picked on outside of our class. They'd come in our class, they were a different guy. As time goes by, they started getting confidence to stand up to those people. They started creating things and started getting, say, hey, I can do things.
Speaker 2:And then there's a lot of former students that have gone into the creative side or still trying to figure out a way to make money and being creative, right? That we're all in that program at that time, because I know I follow Yeah. Yeah. And the ones that have walked against it are really unhappy people. But the ones that stuck stuck to that are seem to be happy.
Speaker 1:Well, so when you have conversations with people who are still teaching, I don't know. I guess I try to think I was almost afraid that you would say that actually, because I, you know, you kind of hear that and can kind of get it. Mean, I think it must be so difficult to be a teacher regardless of any subject. Just, you know, think of things like technology. I'm sure that if I was a kid, I'm sure that I would be now when we have like ChatGPT and these things, I'm sure that would be such a smart ass to my teachers about like, they're trying to explain something, but I've got the answer on my phone from ChatGPT.
Speaker 1:I'm sure I would, you know, it just it must be so difficult. So those people that you talk to, I'm sure they reach them some ways, right? I'm sure there's like certain students they reach like what a what do you think people in today's modern climate are doing to still reach their students in some way? Is there anything?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that if they make their class interesting, and it has a lot to do with their subject matter, then that's how they reach people. If they make it interesting and fun, that's important. But unfortunately, when they reach to do that, they have the administrators tell them, Well, wait a second, we have to do these certain things, right? And they have to really be careful getting close to kids. Like it wasn't a problem before.
Speaker 2:And I would have a feeling that I would have even more trouble with the powers that be if I was a teacher today, because I would there's no way I would compromise. I'd still be that guy, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. You Yeah. Want me to stop being human to this person right to their face? Yeah. Because it doesn't work on paper?
Speaker 1:Like, come on.
Speaker 2:You know, you gotta have the human element in there, you know, it just becomes we're all robotons, you know, just walking around, filling, you know, waiting for the bell to ring, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, for what? Like what's your end goal? I
Speaker 2:remember back in those days, we'd be to do our warm up, and then we'd have whatever we were working on at the time and we'd all like meeting groups and get ready to create. And the next thing you know, the bell would ring and everybody's like, woah, I don't wanna go to my next class, right? Mean, if you can get that kind of excitement, that's a really great thing. You know what, those forty five, forty eight minute class periods or whatever it was, might have drug on when you were taking algebra, but they didn't drag on when you were in my class. They were like, Oh my goodness, I want to keep doing that.
Speaker 2:Want you know,
Speaker 1:I don't want
Speaker 2:to stop. It was hard. And I'd say, Well, we got to go. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, if you're interested in something, it's so nice to be able to lean into it. It's worthwhile, especially when there's an adult saying like, hey, you're having fun. And like, that's what you're supposed to be doing. Like, it's good that you feel excited.
Speaker 1:You know, you don't have to be nervous about the test all the time. Know, I think the I don't know. I mean, I even think back. For me, it's very easy to love your class. Like, even before, just I loved acting and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Feel that I mean, I felt at home, obviously, immediately when I walked in. Everybody felt that way when they walked in your class, but it was just super exciting for me. But even, history, for example, was not ever anything. I think even at a young age, I was always very much like, how are you guys so sure that it happened like this? That is an insanely like, what a leap.
Speaker 1:Someone wrote this down and then you believe them and then this person wrote that. Like, history was always something when people were telling me, I'm like, really? That's what happened? But but I will say there was this gentleman. I don't know if you ever knew him, but he was around the same time, Mr.
Speaker 1:Clausen. He was he was a history teacher there. I remember, like, he would show us videos and he got my attention because I don't want as I'm saying, I don't want to incriminate everything. It's been so many years, he would basically show us World War or he would show us war movies, and he'd pause it at certain points and and more or less say, like, that's bullshit. That didn't happen.
Speaker 1:Like, he he would kind of, like, break it down and tell us that he would give us his personal experience, show us a little bit of like what the movies in Hollywood say, and then he would tell us what really happened and then kind of explain the portrayal of like why it was said to be this way or, hey, you know, Hollywood is going to obviously add a romance in there that's going to make you like focus on these different things. But I remember that stood out to me because he was someone who was willing to break the thing because he wanted to teach us something that he was actually passionate about. He wanted to tell us what his view of the world really was. And suddenly when they pause the movie and say, Hey, that didn't happen. That was bullshit.
Speaker 1:Suddenly you get guys like me who are paying attention. I wasn't paying attention before and suddenly I'm like, this guy's being truthful to us. So I just think like it like any subject, know, if the teacher can kind of I think there's a reason why that teacher even began teaching in the first place, you know, there's like something that they want to lean into and express to other people. You know, I think as a student, we could feel when they're hitting it, you know, we could feel when they're when they're on that pulse, because we get to be a part of that is beautiful thing.
Speaker 2:Yes. And you know, as we know, history that we learned in the books, there's a lot of things in the gray areas that we're learning now because of technology, and you can just almost Google it. And of course, even when you Google it, you have to go, okay, maybe this isn't true too. So you don't, it's getting to the point now where we were like, people are rewriting history.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I mean, much it's such a kind of a weird sentence, and it takes you down a path that you want to be careful with. But but how do you know you could trust those Google results? You know, like, just because Master Daddy Google says it doesn't mean it's exactly that way, you know? And it, you know, that's just a part of like getting older and learning about perspectives.
Speaker 1:And the winners of history are the ones who write history and that sort of stuff. So man, this information landscape we have here, it definitely is. I think everyone can resonate just trying to figure out what what the hell is truthful, what's actually going on. But I think the best bet for me, I'm always I love trusting my intuition. I love when the person across from me is speaking truthfully and I sense that they're speaking truthfully.
Speaker 1:I love just 100% allowing that and trying to like I know. I like trusting my intuition is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2:No, I get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. So leading off with talking about new teachers. So new time teachers who are coming into the world of teaching, even people who maybe think of young people who might be inspired to try to see they're saying, Hey, we've got other teachers who are saying they want to get out of here. They're not really able to the administrative stuff is like getting in their way.
Speaker 1:They're not able to teach. But you got people listening right now who are probably like, Nah, I don't accept that. I'm going to find a way to teach these kids. I'm going to find my way. What words of encouragement might you have for those people?
Speaker 2:Well, hey, we need good teachers. And you know, I think if you want to be a teacher, you really obviously can't be in it for the money. And you have to really give something of yourself. Use your own style. Stay true to yourself.
Speaker 2:It's always the best advice that old Shakespeare to thine own self be true. It's like if you feel comfortable while you're in front of these kids and you're leading them and they're looking, I mean, that's one of the things that really put a lot of pressure on me even when I left the campus, right? I had eyes watching me, and that's a heavy responsibility. You have to be a solid role model for them. And in this day and age of technology, obviously you have to embrace technology.
Speaker 2:You're almost forced to do that. And there's a, with technology comes a lot of ways to create stuff to supplement what you're told you have to teach. And I think as you go into that creative side and you create stuff that's fun for the kids, that's engaging for something to do. I mean, we learn a lot more through experience and taking action than we do by just reading stuff, right? So if you can make it an active thing, then I think you'll be successful.
Speaker 2:And I don't wanna dissuade people from being teachers at all. I'm disappointed that it's kind of gotten to that, but I'm sure there's some wonderful people out there that wanna be teachers that are gonna inspire the next generation of youth. Hopefully you've got a good grasp of technology because you definitely have to have that. I had a little technology in my class. I was teaching kids how to run the lights and the sound and all that stuff, but man, that technology is like archaic compared to what they have now, and it's actually easier.
Speaker 2:So if you can take that technology and turn it into some kind of activities for them to do to where they can learn through those activities, then man, you're you're mining some gold. So that's what I would say would be my advice to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think they'll find it. Mean, and I think that as we always have as humans, as a society, our technology advances, find new ways to utilize it and we come up with ways of solving problems. Not only do we discover new problems, but we find ways of solving them in creative ways that we never would have thought of before that technology. It expands us. So I mean, as much as we want to try to predict it being the same in a couple of years, it might be a whole new different thing that we can't even put into words or try to piece together what it may look like with the AI advancements.
Speaker 1:Happening so quickly that I'm sure there's going to be plenty of bad about it. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of negative about it. I'm sure you know we're all still dealing with the TikTok attention span and we all have our own you know I 'll sit there on TikTok myself, I'll sit there on Reels myself so you know I'm right in the middle of it and everything but I'm optimistic. I think I'm excited about what the possibility of our advancements in the technology will be. I hope it doesn't lead people further into themselves and less connected with one another.
Speaker 1:But we'll see. I to insert optimism, you know. I would hate to see a bunch of students just sitting at home in like their little pods and just talking to their laptop AI teacher that day or whatever, you know, just because I got I got so lucky to experience great teachers face to face that I can
Speaker 2:imagine who I'd be without it. Well, there's a lot of that going on, though, already, where they just sit there at home and they learn, through the technology. And I had a granddaughter that was living here for a while and she was going to the local school. I mean, I was like, do you have any homework? And she's like, no, we get our iPads out and they do all their assignments on there.
Speaker 2:And when we visited the classroom at the beginning of the year, the teachers as much said that. So I don't really know how that looks because it wasn't like that when I was teaching, but it just seemed like she was kind of apathetic to learning, but that's a singular example, right? There was probably plenty of kids that engaged the learning and were learning quickly and creating amazing things. I mean, it's amazing the students nowadays are creating things on their own that are gonna shake the earth. Like, there's somebody I think was like 18 or 19 years old, and she commit she figured out a way to to attack cancer cells that they're starting to use now.
Speaker 2:So you know, there's an example what I'm talking about. She was just like a high school student.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. So
Speaker 2:you know, hey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's clearly somebody there was clearly somebody on her path that like, either encouraged her or lit a fire under her butt by not encouraging her whatever it was, but you know, it's still going on.
Speaker 2:Encouragement or giving her the opportunity or, you know, presenting the information that she needed. And she took that and synthesized it and come off this, you know, amazing thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's exciting, man. I'm looking forward. Like I said, I'm optimistic.
Speaker 1:I want to take the time machine back a little bit if you'll join me, sir. Hop into the DeLorean. I want to go back to before you were a teacher. I want to go back to I think I'm kind of wanting to think I want to get inside your mind before you were a teacher or like, kind of what inspired you to teach other people or maybe I think is probably a natural state of your being, I would say. And it probably just seemed inevitable that you would end up, you know, inspiring people in such a way.
Speaker 1:But I also loved it. I don't know. Just I want to wrap my head around where you were at before you decided to teach before you or any instances where you noticed that your input or your leadership like people are listening to or you could actually affect change in other people and going, you know, I could actually teach people. I have something worth knowing that I could effectively teach people. I know that there's one of my rambling questions that are impossible to answer, Dave.
Speaker 2:No, it's alright.
Speaker 1:Take me back, man. What was it like before you started teaching?
Speaker 2:So, you know, I always was a really great student and I liked school. When I first got out of high school, Vietnam was still kind of there, right? And so we were all waiting to maybe potentially be drafted and stuff. And so I started going to college there at Fullerton College in Fullerton, California, and I was gonna be an elementary teacher. And man, college for the first time, really wasn't prepared for it.
Speaker 2:I wasn't mature enough. And so I ended up dropping out and kind of putting my dream to the side to be a teacher someday. And I think it had a lot to do with not only that gentleman I mentioned, Greg Shook, but also my grandmother was a teacher, Laurel Bell Craig, and I just had this really great relationship with her, and she kind of inspired me to be even consider that, so I went off to the military, and a lot of things happened there in the military when I was there, and it was kinda like that dream of being a teacher someday got pushed aside, right? I was just busy with raising a family, I was married at the time, and I had three children almost immediately when I was a young man, and so I was kinda overwhelmed with being a good father and trying to raise my family and provide for my family, and the military kind of gave me that sort of avenue for where I could take care of my family. But then my whole earth was shaken.
Speaker 2:My wife, my first wife, ended up just leaving all of us, me and the three kids, to our own designs. So I went from this happy family man to this guy that had to take care of three kids, and I was trying to get my college degree, and where I was stationed at, they had this degree program in this thing called in healthcare management. And so I changed my dream to being a teacher to working in a hospital, like being in charge of a hospital. And this program taught me how to do all the things from maintaining a boiler room to doing the business office in a hospital. And so I got my bachelor's degree in that, and then I got out of the military after my first wife died in a automobile accident.
Speaker 2:Of course, were already, we were divorced, she was ex at that time, and so I knew I permanently had the kids forever, and I got out of the military, and I got this job as a carpet cleaner of all things, and I was like working really late at night, and I was just so disappointed, and my future really looked bleak. I mean, I was just, it was so overwhelming to take care of three young kids by myself as a single dad, this is in the 80s now, that I didn't really, couldn't focus on anything else, even though I did complete my degree program and got my degree in healthcare management. So I tried to get a job in healthcare management, then I found out I had to have a master's degree. I went, Oh my goodness. It's like they wouldn't even look at my application almost at that time.
Speaker 2:There was just so many people in that field too, and they all had master's degrees. I was competing against people I couldn't compete against. So I mean, I had to pay the bills, so I kept doing the carpet cleaning. Well, this one guy came to me from this church I was attending, and I told him how frustrated I was with, you know, and I just didn't feel like I had any direction, and He told me, You know what? You should go substitute teach.
Speaker 2:And I was living in this town called Riverside at the time, and there was a school district real close by called Moreno Valley. It was connected to March Air Force Base, which is there in Riverside, right on the outskirts. I said, Oh, always wanted to be a teacher, but man, it's just too late for me. I can't see myself. He goes, No, you have a bachelor's degree.
Speaker 2:All you have do is pass a couple tests and they'll start hiring you as a substitute and see what you think. So I thought, well, I'm gonna clean carpets at night. I'm gonna substitute teach during the day, and then try to find some time for my kids in there too, which so I was pretty busy. So I started substitute teaching, and almost immediately I knew I was in my place. I knew this is what I was meant to be, and I right away, I started connecting with kids, really troubled kids to a lot of them.
Speaker 2:It seemed like I do really better with the kids that have some angst, you know? Yeah. And the other kids did, you know, I mean, I saw that it attracts some of them too, but basically, the next thing you know, they were hiring me as a substitute to be the long term teacher when a teacher had to have a baby or something like that. For the first two years of my teaching, I did it a substitute, but they never knew I was the substitute because
Speaker 1:I
Speaker 2:took the classes over, and I was basically their teacher.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there was a couple I started teaching from day one, and what's really interesting, I am actually still in contact with first class of kids that I taught.
Speaker 1:Wow. Okay. So how old are they now ish?
Speaker 2:They're like, well, the oldest one is like 52. In fact, I just went to his wedding this summer. Yeah, was a beautiful thing. Then of course, you know, he treated me like, you know, I was royalty while I was there, you know, him and his new spouse.
Speaker 1:You He know, he walked his wife down the aisle and everything.
Speaker 2:Well, mean, they kept on taking pictures of me with each other. You know, I was a pretty major part of the ceremony. But anyways, so right away, you know, I could tell that this was my jam, you know, it's like, hey, I found my place, and I got and then I went to Cal State San Bernardino and got my teaching credential. And then I ended up getting my master's degree in special education, you know, and then eventually I got my master's degree in teaching. So, you know, as I kept going forward, and then I got my first teaching job, real teaching job, which I think was getting paid like $10,000 that's what they paid teachers back in those days.
Speaker 2:Crazy. And yeah, it was pretty crazy. And so I just, you know, leap from there and it was never a stretch. I always felt really natural. I always, you know, because I was this kind of rebellious guy that was creative, I always did things outside the box and the kids loved it.
Speaker 2:And so I just kept getting reinforced, right? And then just kept going forward and forward and forward. And and now I'm a retired guy, and and that's kinda how I always knew that I was gonna be a teacher, and it just went really well for me. I mean, what a blessing to find out your calling. I mean, it was a calling.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Hey, I'm glad you didn't just live this whole life cleaning carpets. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2:can you imagine that? I mean, I'm sure I wouldn't have done that. I might have figured out something. Maybe I got my Master in Healthcare Management. But hey, it was my destiny.
Speaker 2:It was my destiny.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you a little bit about, you know, you mentioned some hardships during those times as a single father? I mean, I'm just picturing you, you know, trying to work during the day and then carpet cleaning at night. Can I ask you about your mindset around that time? Did you ever deal with anything like depression? You know, I talk on this podcast about I talk openly about things like suicide and stuff, so it's not so stigmatized.
Speaker 1:Did you deal with anything that around that time?
Speaker 2:So what was really interesting is I was actually in a really good frame of mind afterwards, after I got through the adversity. But there was a time when I was like completely overwhelmed, and I was pretty depressed. And I had this other guy that came to me, and it always seems to be somebody who's like a, I don't know what you call that, but they show up the right time and say the right thing. And he told me, he says, Man, you're like a ship without a rudder. You need to sit down and write some goals out of what could make you happy.
Speaker 2:Right? And then go about trying to achieve that. And if you focus on that, then you're gonna be happy someday. And so despite the fact that I was probably severely depressed, of course, I didn't have a lot of time. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 2:I was cleaning carpets at night, I was substitute teaching during the day, and then I had to spend some time with my kids and get some sleep somewhere in there too,
Speaker 1:which is
Speaker 2:about that time was maybe three or four hours a night, if that, you know? So I wrote down all I started writing down these goals, right? I started saying, hey, this is what I wanted, you know, a spouse, a future spouse. This is what I wanna do. I wanna finish my degree.
Speaker 2:I wanna get my teaching credential. And I started like, I wrote it down and I actually put it up somewhere where I could see it. And little by little, I started to achieve those things. I got my degree, I got my credential, I got an advanced degree, I met a woman that I fell in love with, that ticked off all the boxes for a woman that I was looking for, and that truly made all the difference in the world because right away, she took on me and my three children, and so they had a child, you know, they had a mother, which is really what they needed, and you know, was worried that I was never gonna be married again. I never thought anybody would be with a guy with three kids, you know, it's like, you know, who would take that burden on, but, and I'm still married to that woman to this day, she's thirty eight years later, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:And I mean, made, yeah, she made all the difference in the world, and that guy telling me to sit down and write down my goals and make it visual, you know, and do some kind of concerted effort to try to start, you know, start working on those things. I even had down what I wanted in a wife, this woman that I met that I'm married to now, she ticked off all the boxes, man. Just, know, it's just, she just everything that I wanted in a woman, she was it. And luckily enough, I found that she, you know, fell in love with me too, and we got married. So my life changed right away, but I'd have to save my whole life.
Speaker 2:I was, I kind of fought depression. I I pretty much my whole life. I'd be I'd say it's been maybe in the last ten years that I don't really I'm not depressed anymore. You know what
Speaker 1:I mean? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, there was even some point where I had to take medication, like when I was teaching you even just to control my impulses, you know, because, you know, when you get into depression, those kinds of things about self harm and all that comes into your mind, even though on the outside looking in people think you have an idyllic life, you know, and you know, and there's a lot of things with brain chemistry too, that where you just kind of go, why do I, you know, things aren't kind of going good for me. Why am I feeling like, you know, I want to throw it all away, you know, and I really had to fight that impulse to sabotage myself. Right? Yeah. But I managed to do that.
Speaker 1:Well, for one, thanks for sharing that. I really appreciate you diving into that. Love I'm sticking to what is something you said earlier a few minutes before I asked that you said something about taking action. You use the word action. And it's something I've been thinking a lot lately about.
Speaker 1:I've spent a lot of the last six, seven years thinking about reading about listening to exploring with other people, self reflecting everything to do with like depression and how our culture sees it, how our society sees it, how we treat it, what causes it. I've really just spent so much time diving. I really I turned my obsessive compulsive disorder on depression in myself, basically, and just I think about it a lot. I'm kind of I'm on the other side, too. I don't really consider myself to be a depressed person.
Speaker 1:I deal with depression for sure. But I think there's power in as much as it's been useful and important for me to lock my door, turn off the TV, and just sit with myself, journal, explore, know, figure out what the hell is going on. Right? But I really, really especially those last like a year, I think action. Getting outside of wallowing in my self pity in my apartment.
Speaker 1:Getting outside of trying to fix myself all the time. Realizing that I've just been telling myself that Alan Watts has this, the backwards law. It is an act of telling yourself that there's something wrong with you by consistently trying to fix something about yourself. It's kind of this mind bender, you know, and I'm never trying to say like, wow, your depression isn't real. You know, you're feeling what you feel it.
Speaker 1:But I think there is this magical, beautiful, warm blanket of action of opening the door and seeing. Know, you probably heard this too, Dave, like, you know, all spiritual teachers tell us, like, serve others. That's the way out. Like, if you can find someone who needs help, and you could help them, suddenly you realize it's been hours since you've been thinking about yourself and your depression and whatever you're in action. So I guess, I don't know, does that spark anything for you?
Speaker 1:Like, like the actionable act of getting out of our own minds? Like, do you see that as a genuine like, I think that's like a secret of the universe or something. There's something really magical about that. Trying to take action.
Speaker 2:I think you hit on it really, you know, majorly when you said something about service. I mean, I pretty much my whole life was in service to other people. I was a teacher for over thirty years. And every day that I came in, they filled my love. I mean, they just told me words of affirmation about how great I was.
Speaker 2:I mean, and then you start weighing that out about, okay, am I really depressed? I mean, all these people like what we're doing here, right? And, you know, so I didn't really think about all that much and I was really having a good time and I'd have to say generally I was happy. And now even when I'm retired, I don't think I've ever really been happier because I'm doing things. And that's what you said, action, right?
Speaker 2:And here's another thing is I've been helping others. I've been spending a lot of time with other people now, and I've changed from being a deliverer of information to someone that listens to people and observes them. And I don't give them advice unless they ask for it. Sometimes I just say, well, what do you think? And then they start saying, well, this is what I think.
Speaker 2:And I said, okay, take action. And the next thing you know, they're okay, right? So yeah, service to others is really key. I mean, right now I'm on a board of a ministry, and they work with people with addictions. And so I've kind of become an advisor to this whole group, and it was kinda, it needed to be kinda like, I don't know, operated more successfully or it needed to have its rough edges sanded and sort of that's kinda what I've been doing.
Speaker 2:And as a byproduct, I've been interacting with addicts, and I've been kind of a spiritual advisor to them. I mean, I have them call me a lot, and really all I've ever done for them is just listen to them. And a lot of them are doing a lot of good things. And you know, and of course, as an addicted person, you always have to worry about going back to your addiction. Right?
Speaker 2:So there's that too. And one thing I don't do, and I never did when I was a teacher, I didn't really judge people, you know? And, you know, I just try to accept them. And what's really interesting is, and this is true about kids, if you're not genuine, they sniff out the bullshit.
Speaker 1:Real quickly.
Speaker 2:And it's like, so that's where my success was. They knew that the love that I showed them was genuine. And now that I'm working with addicts, they can tell that I truly love them and I care about them. And that's not easy to communicate people, especially when everybody's so self absorbed, you know, But you're right. If you step outside yourself and you do things for others, you don't got time to think about your own problems, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or you hear these other people that are like, you go, oh my gosh. And not only do you is your life going, you know, sour, but you keep making decisions and make things worse, you know? And when you when you when you're hearing those stories, you're like, man, my life is fantastic. I mean, you know, it's like and it really is fantastic.
Speaker 2:If I look at my life, it's like, oh my goodness. How could I complain? You
Speaker 1:know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And but it truly, you know, I've lived a life of service, like you said. And and, you know, I just I think that is the key. It really is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, I think so, too. I mean, there's a that's like I said, you know, there's all these spiritual advisors, all these spiritual teachers, they have some way of kind of telling us that. And it's I've heard it. I've heard it.
Speaker 1:I've heard it. And then I start taking action in my own life and doing things that I'm genuinely lit up by that I know that are helping other people. Because like I like like you mentioned earlier, you know, you get the messages. I have my version of that, you know, and so I can see firsthand, like, okay, this thing that took me all this time and I made it and like, hopefully it was worth it. Well, even though I didn't get it for the response, did it because I is something fulfilling for me to do.
Speaker 1:It does feel good for someone to say like, Hey, man, that thing you said impacted me. That helped me understand my situation I'm going through. It's like, Ah, okay, like one person was positively affected by that. Like that feels really good. It's reaffirming, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is reaffirming. But you know, what's really interesting is you do it out of self sacrifice and you do it to help that person out of genuine care. And like I said, if you're not genuine, they're gonna sniff that out, right? Because they know what fake looks like, right? Fake concern and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:And they're used to people letting them down. But that's another thing too. I've been consistent in, you know, lots of people's lives. And so they know I'm going to be around. You know, they can call me anytime I want.
Speaker 2:I don't say, oh, hey, I'm too busy or anything like that, you know? And if you go about doing that and have that attitude, the reaffirming stuff comes almost naturally. They start telling you that, you know, like when I was a teacher, I mean, I didn't ask for them People say, hey, you're you're my favorite teacher, and I love you. And and I'm having 50 year old men tell me that, you know, I mean, I'm having people that they're in their 40s and 30s who have long removed from that, man, you really influenced my life. I mean, how reaffirming is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it wasn't about attaining money. It wasn't about attaining recognition. And because I did things outside the box and kind of was a rebel and kind of just threw myself at everything that came with risk, you know? It made me a target for, you know, you got a lot of people there wanting to like, okay, I want to take this guy down, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And unfortunately, there's people like that. But you know, when you when you serve others, and like you said, it feels good inside when you see the results of that. I mean, seeing you do this podcast, what a great I'm living vicariously through you, man. I mean, you were on my stage.
Speaker 2:Now you're on your own stage, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I
Speaker 2:mean, what better thing that could that be for me reinforcing what I did was was right for you, right? Yeah. Maybe maybe just a small part, but hey, who cares? Right? You never know.
Speaker 2:You never know how you're gonna influence people. I have this thing. It's like a theory. It's called matrix of influence. I call it the matrix of influence.
Speaker 2:So what I always wanted to do is I always wanted to, and I truly thought about this even from the very beginning, I wanted to put this guy, David Craig into everybody's life and who he was about and what he represented. And when they took my class or they had some kind of, you know, connection with me in some way, I wanted them to take that little piece of me out into the world, right? And I never knew if it was gonna work or not, so I just was always myself and I always brought what I could bring and was creating and just providing them the opportunity to excel, and through their success, they ended up taking it or leaving it, right? I mean, sometimes they weren't as influenced by me, but I always try to be positive, no judgments, you know, just be humble and show them love. And then they go out in the world and take a little bit of Dave Craig with them, right?
Speaker 2:And in a way, it's kind of only way you can have any kind of this kind of a taste of immortality. Because, you know, I mean, like I said, I have 50 year old people that really still see me as a significant person in their lives. And so what I set out a long time ago, over thirty, like almost forty years ago, has really come to fruition through the lives of other people. And I'm hoping that they're gonna take that little piece that I gave them, and they're gonna spread that little piece of Dave Prague everywhere. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's something like a matrix of influence. It's kind of like, you know, I influenced, I'm sure I influenced thousands of thousands of people, and then those thousands of people take a little bit of what I do into the world to somebody else, and then they take it, And, you know, there's probably people that I don't even know that have been influenced by me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, guaranteed. Yeah. Yeah. The ripples of influence.
Speaker 1:What do you call it? The matrix?
Speaker 2:Matrix of influence is what I call
Speaker 1:Matrix I it. I love that man. I think that's so powerful. Love to really think about yeah I think about I mentioned my buddy not splashing that guy with with water with his truck you know. I mean maybe that guy went out and he did something nice for somebody else or you know because he's in a little bit better mood you know.
Speaker 1:Reality is this. That really is what's going on here. You know, like we are very powerful with each of our interactions. And it's like self expression and just being able to open as yourself is just people are drawn to it, you know, and like you said, students and kids, especially they can tell when you're when you're bullshitting. They've got intuitions that we can't put into words there before words even happen, man.
Speaker 1:We're communicating. There's so much communication happening without the words. So if you just try to say, hey, all that stuff isn't real, but the words I'm saying are real. Kids are like, okay, you're doing that thing where you lie to me. And what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 1:Like I'm playing with your game? Or am I pretending you're being truthful? Kids are so smart like that, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they
Speaker 1:are. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, we had so many wicked smart kids on my stage. Was just crazy. I mean, was so much talent. The place was oozing with talent. Almost the whole time I was there, it just and you know, I gave them the opportunity to start showing their talent and stuff, you know?
Speaker 2:And that whole thing, it was and I don't know why it came to me. Like, one of my favorite poets is Robert Frost, and he wrote The Road Not Taken. Right? Everyone was gonna Yeah. Have So The Road Not Taken is real famous about the going to the path, and he took the one that's less traveled and made all the difference.
Speaker 2:So the dare to be different, which was originally, you know, my creation, right? I knew I had to have some kind of thing for people to latch onto. I made those, had those shirts made of actually through Alissia Huckabee, who's dad's Rick made the shirts for me and had the drama, comedy and tragedy because there's always two sides to everything, right? And then I only gave those t shirts out when they were in my place. That's the only time they got those t shirts.
Speaker 2:Nobody got them. And those became treasured Yeah. People because they realize, hey, you know, I was in the play and, you know, gave them a little recognition. But to have people take that dare to be different into the world, which is what I hoped, and then really what it was trying to say is, Hey, screw you to all those detractors. I'm gonna do what I want my way.
Speaker 2:And I told everybody, if you dare to be different, there's some risk to that because people want to put you in a box all the time. And if you resist that, I mean, all the great people resisted that. All the people who created things throughout history, they resisted that. So I don't know what caused me to come up with that slogan, But that slogan's followed me throughout my whole life, pretty much, you know, at least for forty years. And, you know, I mean, I can say that to any of the kids that I took there in the trauma program, they know exactly what that meant to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, it's been profound. My sister and I talk about all the time. I mean, I honestly find ways I probably met. I mean, I mentioned you all the time. You've been mentioned on this podcast multiple times, I bring up the dare to be different.
Speaker 1:It had a profound influence on me. I think I had this. At that time. I already had this natural, like, want to be different. I think I'm different.
Speaker 1:I want to I loved, you know, I go to warped tour and, you know, that's not that punk rock. But to me, was punk rock at the time. I remember the lead singer of Rise Against. He was on he was on I thought they were just the coolest band anyway. Love their music.
Speaker 2:They are cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, definitely. Man, they're so good. But he was on the stage at Warped Tour. I remember him like saying things about the government. He's like the government doesn't want you blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And I remember just being like, dude, you could just say stuff like that. Like you're just allowed to. I just I was so inspired by him just being an artist and like expressing something that like the other people, you know, we're not allowed to say that, you know, it awoke that within me just by seeing him express who we who he was. So it just And what I Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Oh, what I think is really most brilliant about it is the kids that I imparted that motto to were in high school, where they were almost forced to try to conform. Right? And they were trying to find out who they were. And of course, when it came into my arena, I made them say, Hey, be who you wanna be, right? You don't have to be, I'm not gonna tell you who to be.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna give you all these opportunities to express yourself, but hey, and of course, I was the only one that necessarily judged them, mean, I had to give them a grade, right? So, and I also had to, you know, I'm trying to make them better actors or whatever, right? Impart that, so I, in some regards, I had to judge them and their performance, but I never really judged them as people. I accepted them completely. And, you know, they were trying to form who they were gonna be.
Speaker 2:And, know, I really, I think it gave everybody the confidence of saying, Hey, I can be who I wanna be. Craig says, Dare to be different. Darn it. I don't want to, you know, be like this guy over here that's, you know, wearing the same clothes as his buddy over there or whatever. I don't have to jump on any trends.
Speaker 2:I can set my own trend. I can do what I want. Mean, and I'm safe to do it in here, you know? Yeah. And, I'm going to take that off in a lot of them took that off into life.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've had a we have a lot of successful people from that group of people. And you know, I mean, varying success. And then of course, we're not going to really judge what is success. I mean, they're happy, they're happy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Hey, for me, man, success is liking myself. I'm able to be myself and like myself. I'm proud of what I'm able to express. You know, I think that's successful to me.
Speaker 1:Never really had a ton of money or nothing, but I got a ton of other currency, got I'm rich in other ways, so I feel pretty successful myself anyway.
Speaker 2:What's really weird is throughout my whole life, I never passed money. If you knew how much money I spent over the course of my career back into my classroom, I mean, right? People would go, What? Spent I mean, it's well over $100,000 Let me imagine if I had $100,000 now, could probably do a lot of fun things with that. I poured it back into my classroom, right?
Speaker 2:Because I didn't want the kids to be without. I wanted to do these special things, and it was all about giving to them. And what's really interesting when I ended and everything was over, you know, I'm not teaching actively anymore, I mean, you always are a teacher, I was blessed. I mean, I have enough money to live out the rest of my whole life and probably leave some to my kids. I mean, I don't know what how that happened, but I managed to be blessed too.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you've seen my house here above the beach in Oregon, I mean, you would go, wow, that's something a teacher got, you know? Because we, you know, let's be honest, they underpay teachers. But, know, the monetary rewards, which are fleeting anyways, come on top of that. So it's like when you talk about a happy, relaxed man, it's me because not only did I get blessed by all the interactions I had with all of you, But you know, now in my golden years, I'm able to enjoy my golden years like no other time. I mean, you know, I'm blessed in all so many ways.
Speaker 1:Well, go ahead. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, monetarily, whatever possessions, all that kind of stuff, which really don't mean much. But you know, a lot of times people go after the dollar, right? That's what their career is about. I say don't don't follow the money. The money comes.
Speaker 2:It just comes. I don't know how it does, but it just does. And you just have to have the faith to go forward and do what your muse tells you to do. Your muse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've always felt that money is like the symptom of you doing, you know, what you want to be doing. Always seems like it figures itself out. I want to say, so you just mentioned The Muse, I can't resist that. Have you read Steven Pressfield's The War of Art?
Speaker 1:You heard of that or read that book?
Speaker 2:No, but it sounds like something I should put on my reading list.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, it's so good. It's a pretty short read too. I listened to it on Audible. He's a great read. He's such a great writer, Steven Pressfield, that he takes I imagine him to just blah his books out and then he takes every single sentence and condenses it down into a line of poetry.
Speaker 1:That's the way I see it. Like every sentence stands on its own so well. He's a great author. Anyway, he talks about the muse and as a creator, as, you know, an artist, what you do is you get yourself out of the way so the muse can come through.
Speaker 2:That's
Speaker 1:right. Yeah, it's not so much about just takes you out of the equation. Know, like it's it's like you, you just remove yourself and get yourself into the environment like he talks about. He doesn't wait for inspiration to write. He puts himself in an environment to hear inspiration or whatever because at 9AM every day he sits down to write.
Speaker 1:So he makes himself like an open vessel for the muse to come through by making his schedule happen. So man, I want to explore this a little bit more. The muse, I will mention this out loud just because I understand some people trip it up. I do want to branch into words like spirituality. I would like to even talk about God here eventually, too.
Speaker 1:But I know those are like such heavy words for people. Just when I'm talking about it, know that I'm kind of talking about like the universe, God, spirituality, our higher self. I kind of do clump a lot of these things in. And I just don't want anybody like shut off this conversation because I use the word spirituality. So just as that caveat, tell me about like the muse spirituality.
Speaker 1:Like, how do you see this? Does that ring a bell to you at all? Like you kind of get out of the way and the muse works through you? Does it feel like that at all in your experience?
Speaker 2:Well, what's really interesting is it's kind of a frame of mind that I get into. It's like sometimes it comes at the most weirdest times, and it's like I get this urge to create. So I really feel like I'm open to creating all the time, right? And that being that open to just the inspiration comes. Like I was telling you about Dare to be Different, it just kind of keep that whole idea came to me.
Speaker 2:And I write poetry a lot, and sometimes I go months without writing poetry. And then all of a sudden it's like, I'll write four or five poems and it might be that I listened to Jethro Tull or something, and all of a sudden I want to write music. I just, it wasn't something that's been happening lately, even though I've done this throughout my life. I run into this guy, and he's an interesting guy, and he he's a former vet that's got PTSD, and he he struggles with life really hard, but he's amazing musician. The dude sounds like Bob you know, and he sings like Bob Dylan, which is really kinda cool.
Speaker 2:But him and I, we went to this thing on Thursday nights. It's kind of like a place where people create. Creative minds called to create, it's called.
Speaker 1:That's
Speaker 2:cool. So we would sit there and he would go, Okay, we should write a song together. And I said, Okay, let me, let's come up with a melody. We were in this thing, and we're just sitting there, and he was just playing the guitar, and all of a sudden, this melody came to me. And of course, being a poet and a writer and all this kind of stuff that I've always been, the words for the song just came out, like as we were singing, writing the songs, I started writing the lyrics, and I, you know, kind of hummed the melody that was spinning around in my head, and he started banging it out on the guitar, and next thing you know, we got this song called Jesus Keeps Us Straight that we recorded, and we performed and everything else, and you know, I mean, I'm not saying it's a terrific song, but I think it stands on its own, right?
Speaker 2:And the whole idea is, I was trying to have a relationship with this guy that really needed me. He was looking to me for advice a lot, because he struggles with life, and out of that came the song, you know? So I could have said, nah, I can't write a song. No, that stuff, right? And to have self doubts.
Speaker 2:But I didn't. I said, yeah, can write a song. I could do this. And that's a part of the deal too, is there really don't, I don't think there's anything in this earth, earth alone me, I can't dunk a basketball, but that if I put my mind to it, I couldn't achieve. And I've always had that attitude.
Speaker 2:And I think, you know, I've always been a creative type and a rebellious type, and inspiration comes to me almost constantly. I mean, I got books and books and books of poetry that I've written down, and I don't really care if people think it's good or not. It doesn't matter. You know? It's just that I have the urge and I can't resist it.
Speaker 2:I have to create. It's just So who I I've been open to that pretty much my whole life. I mean, if you even go back to my English class back in the tenth or eleventh grade, I was writing this poetry beyond my years, know, at least to the teachers, right? And then when you get those kind of feedback and you get positive reinforcement, this is, hey, maybe I have this talent. We all are so talented at something.
Speaker 2:There is something that we do really super good, and to be open to the fact that to have those ideas that we, oh, I can't do anything, or you know, sort of self defeating prophecy kind of words towards ourselves, then we can be open to that muse, but if you're open, hey, I could do anything I want to do. Yeah. It's possible. Yeah. I just have to, you know, put the pin on down on the paper, or I have to listen to to my brain and it gives me a melody or, you know, I I'm with somebody else that that has some talent, and we take our talent and create something together.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, you're around other creative people. You're gonna create something, man. You can't help yourself. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're all listening to our muse then and man, some really amazing things could happen. Look what happened on my stage. That's kind of what happened. Yeah, know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it reminds me of Terrence McKenna has some sort of quote about, you know, trusting the universe and you jump off the you jump off the cliff and you realize it's it's actually just a feathery bed. Know, he says nature loves courage. And I really believe that. And I really think I also wonder if you have a perspective on this. What about those of us those of us who are, you know, deemed creatives?
Speaker 1:Like we've touched to that. Know that like, okay, I can I can kind of be this conduit of creation and make beautiful things? And it feels really right relationship to me. It feels really like, okay, I'm doing something that like, I think maybe only I can do. And it feels really reassuring, reaffirming as I'm doing all these things.
Speaker 1:But on the opposite side, I've also noticed that that intense energy doesn't just go away if I'm not creating. It actually kind of like, it can kind of fester in me actually. If I don't find creative outlets, that doesn't mean that my connection to like this intense energy stops. I think that I can be just kind of an intense guy. And if I don't find ways to express myself, if I don't find ways to write poetry and make music or do my art here, I've been on the journey of just got my meditation teacher certification.
Speaker 1:So even like filtering my creativity and my passion into that is just so fulfilling to me. But do you see or do you think that when creatives don't have an outlet, but they continue to get that intense energy? Do you see that it being troublesome? Basically I'm saying I think creators have to create or we really get in our own heads. Have a lot of heaviness that we carry around.
Speaker 1:Do see that to be true?
Speaker 2:So, like I said, I'm bombarded constantly creativity. So I either have to put it down to pen, or I have to create something or negative things happen. And I think it's true. If you look at all the creative types in the world and you look at their personal lives, most of them have trash personal lives, and they started beeping on substances and they get addictions, and that ends up destroying their life. And what's really bad is when you get if if you don't, when you when all this energy comes your way and you don't create, it does bottle up, I think, and then it manifests itself in negative ways.
Speaker 2:I Yeah, mean, because I think so. And that's why so many of them that are creative types. I mean, there's a guy that I mean, it just was terrible to hear his passing, Chris Cornell, used to be the lead singer for Soundgarden. Great looking guy. Beautiful family he had.
Speaker 2:What a storied career he has. He is one of the greatest singers I've ever heard. I mean, let's face it. The dude can sing, and he and he committed suicide. I mean, it's because he's probably bombarded with all these, what he would call demons.
Speaker 2:Right? But if you continue to create, I think, and you release that energy, then those kinds of things don't happen. You don't turn it in on yourself because that's a danger. That's probably why I've dealt with depression my whole life is because there's been some times in my period of time where it's like, I should have created and I, you know, I stagnated.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? Yeah. So, you know, then I turn everything in on myself, do pity parties and self doubt, and you know, start saying I'm not a good person and all that kind of stuff. Then you know, luckily, luckily I have some coping mechanisms that got me back on track, right? But not everybody has those, and that's what happens to these tortured artists, you know, end up things in on themselves, and or they lash out their relationships or they numb the pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because when you have all those, you know, those things come and hit you constantly as a creative person, it's hard to channel it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I wonder if you had this when you were younger. Did you have I had this weird like fan like the twenty seven club. I had this like, for one, I had this and this is like a much deeper thing. And I've talked about on other areas of the podcast.
Speaker 1:But I will say I had this kind of knowing that I was going to be part of the twenty seven club. I know it's kind of intense, like, throw in the conversation, but it's just kind of like, I really had to face it. Really had to like when I dug it out, really had to be like really look right at it and go, what am I doing? I'm like thinking this is the coolest thing ever. Like, oh, you know, they'll really appreciate me as an artist once I'm gone.
Speaker 1:It's like this weird obsession with that, you know, Jimi Hendrix and Kurt Cobain and all these the twenty seven Club. I'm sure everybody listening is if they're an artist.
Speaker 2:Joplin, Jim Morrison.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And
Speaker 2:so Amy Winehouse now too.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. And And I don't know. I wonder if you had this when I was younger anyway. I definitely don't feel this way anymore and I had to really face it and deal with it and work through all my, know, quote unquote demons and stuff around it.
Speaker 1:But I thought it was so sick. I thought it was this cool thing. I don't know what it was. Like, it it was something that I almost wanted to happen in this strange way. I idolized it.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it was. I don't know. Did you experience that all? I mean, you said you dealt with some levels of depression. You're clearly a creative person.
Speaker 1:You're around a lot creative people, maybe even if you didn't, do you see it in other people, you know, around the ages of say, 18 to 26? Do you see other people kind of idolize this 27? I don't know. What do you think about it?
Speaker 2:You know, think, you know, what's really, all of us are kind of preoccupied with people of celebrity, right? Famous people. And often, especially when you're talking about people like Kurt Cobain, I mean, he spoke to a generation of people. I mean, he was pretty influential. Jim Morrison spoke to a generation of people.
Speaker 2:He was a poet. His lyrics are pretty powerful. One of the greatest things I would do in my class, I would teach all the classic styles of poetry, right? Because I had to teach Cheetah English along with drama, And the kids would groan, Oh my gosh, we have to do poetry. Oh my gosh, you know?
Speaker 2:And so then we'd go through this journey and there was this one part in my poetry unit that I had, I would read them this poetry, just start reading this poetry. I said, Well, who do you think this is? And they would come up with all kinds of names. Oh, Robert Frost. Oh, whatever.
Speaker 2:Someone would say, Well, I have no idea. And I say it's Tupac Shakur. I say, this is Tupac. They're like, what? This is Tupac?
Speaker 2:He was a poet?
Speaker 1:I go, yeah. Look at this poet. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Know, be up here free to to borrow if you want. And then I started sharing some of his poetry. Brilliant stuff, you know? I mean, he's another guy who had a tragic end, right? But I think, you know, we're through that preoccupation, and we think that everything they do is cool.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's why we call fans, right? It's, you know, you're a fan of them and fanatic is, you know, the shortening of that is really means fanatic, you're fanatic for these people. So to, you know, to say that, hey, I wanna be that great. I mean, these people live in our hearts or minds, or depending on what influence they have on you. I mean, I'm still remember Jim Morrison.
Speaker 2:I listened to The Doors once in a while. Kurt Cobain, I mean, Nirvana thing, that was amazing when that happened. Mean, I was just, mean, I was an older man, but you know, I mean, it wasn't that old, was in my 30s, and that was a long time ago, but man, I mean, he was speaking to a whole generation of people. So yeah, I say we kind of like glorify that, you know, and I think we, you know, we look to people that are icons like that, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's, you know, I mean, people are impressionable. They want to latch on to something. They want some direction. They they're not. They don't like looking inside because they when they look inside like that, then they find out that they're fragile and they don't, you know, they don't, they're not talented like Kurt Cobain.
Speaker 2:I mean, who could be that talented, you know? Yeah. You're talking about, what's his name? Dave Grohl, right? He's out of this famous career with the Foo Fighters, amazing career with them.
Speaker 2:But you know what? He's second fiddle to that guy. Curt Kvaith's even higher than him, you know, in the Stratosphere of Rock guys. But, you know, yeah, I I I think I'm trying to think of who that would get have been for me. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I would say it's probably like maybe James Dean or Yeah. You know, there's another guy that from a generation people wanted to be like James Dean, you know, and he died really young too. I don't know if wasn't it? Was it is he a member of the twenty seven COVID? He might be.
Speaker 1:I feel like he is. I feel like I've heard his name in that. Bet if we looked it up, he probably is.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, anyways, I'm just saying is every generation has those people that speak to them. You know, I mean, I've always interested in music. So Kurt Cobain, I mean, I was like, wow, this is is this is different, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:This is so different.
Speaker 1:Well, mean, and at that time, I can only imagine. Mean, I obviously love Nirvana, I don't know that I was like exactly I think I was too young to like really feel that I was on the pulse of it. But it sounds like from what I hear, it's like, you know, there's all these these eighties bands and like they're they're all kissing the makeup and they're all performative and they're wearing the leather pants. And then Kurt Cobain came out with his flannel and was like fuck that, you know, he's like, and that's sick. That's that's cool.
Speaker 1:You know, that's
Speaker 2:And people are still dressed like that in the Northwest, you know. There's tons of kids that are even young kids are looking like Kurt Cobain, you know?
Speaker 1:Yep. Dang right. Yeah. I still definitely I wear my flannels and people still make I'm here in Texas, but people like, oh, I could see your Pacific Northwest shining through right
Speaker 2:now. Yeah. Well, you should maybe should wear your flannel with a cowboy hat.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you what. Yep. Yep. I didn't. I haven't got a cowboy hat.
Speaker 1:Will say that pretty much within a month I said y'all and now it's just a part of my vocabulary. I'm a y'aller now. Say y'all way more than you guys nowadays.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You all.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so so on on the the 27 club part, I just wanted to bring that up. I I just think that for me anyway, I think that I was idolizing kind of the wrong parts of it.
Speaker 1:I think I as I started approaching that age myself, started thinking of like, oh, like what I've all these ideas and all these things I
Speaker 2:want to do and I
Speaker 1:haven't done them and maybe they'll be looked at if I'm gone. And I just I think that I started idolizing the wrong parts of it when I could have been could have been idolizing the outcomes of my own long term impact. Like, instead of like, how much can I get everybody to watch me before I'm 26? It's like, what about doing a podcast where if I keep doing this for twenty years, I might be able to really impact some people over the course of twenty years. Instead of trying to be like the brightest right now, I want the most attention right to the top.
Speaker 1:It's like, what about long term? Just doing what you can day in and day out, the long term benefits. It's like my mind has peace there you know it's a I think a lot of this I gotta prove myself before I turn 27 it has this like you know this just gripping this pressure that doesn't need, you know, really just need that opening of the fist, like just the allowing of the art to come through rather than trying to catch it all and make everyone look at it right now.
Speaker 2:27 is pretty young. Mean, most of us live to 77, 80 or something nowadays. So fifty years to give up where you could be creating and influencing people, you know, just so you could be the brightest star and then fizzle out. Yeah. To me, it just Well said.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's just better to do the long haul. It's more courageous.
Speaker 1:I think so too, man. I think so too. I like it. Thank you. Thank you for expressing your your views on that.
Speaker 1:I want to ask you a little bit more about your spiritual practice. So not only your spiritual practice, just kind of your way of centering yourself and everything, but also if it correlates. Can you tell me about your ways of, you know, back then and even now as you get older, what are your ways like when you notice that you're kind of in those spots? Maybe you've had like maybe you notice, Okay, I've been kind of like depressed. I kind of have been, you know, maybe ignoring the phone more than I want to or whatever this looks like for you.
Speaker 1:How do you pull yourself out of those times? And then outside of that, even outside of your break glass in case of emergency situations, I would love to know kind of like what your spiritual practice looks like on a day to day basis. Like what is that like for you?
Speaker 2:So one of the things that I do, and you can call it what it's your will, pray or meditate. And since I've done that, and I've also, you know, I mean, you can say what you will, but I've always been a Christian person, right? I believe in Christ, and so I've been, every day I study a different scripture in the Bible, and then try to apply it to my life, and since I've done that, and it's been since I've retired pretty much, and actually really more intense in the last couple of years, and along with that, become more of a listener and observer of people, but since I've been doing those things, studying the scriptures, praying and meditating, and unplugging, you know, not like going right to watch UFC fights or something, Even though I do enjoy that, but, and kind of spending some time in nature, like I took on this sport called disc golf, and it's kind of like you go, every time you play it, you're out in nature. And the whole time I'm playing, cause I'm pretty terrible at disc golf. Mean, you know, someone probably say, oh no, you're pretty good Dave, but you know, compared to some of the really good ones, I'm really, you know, way average, right?
Speaker 2:But of course at 68 years old, who cares if I achieve anything? The bottom line is I'm out in nature, I'm getting exercise. And that's another thing too, is I've been working on keeping my body more fit. I've been going to the gym and stuff like that. And it sounds really weird, but it is kind of a spiritual practice.
Speaker 2:It's disciplining yourself, right? And with unplugging and disciplining yourself and studying the scriptures and all that stuff, all of a sudden, started hearing, like when I'm presented with a problem or something, I get this little voice in my head that tells me almost immediately what I should do. And I've been listening to that voice, and it's made all the difference in the world. It's been so powerful for me. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:And not only what's really cool about is I've been able to impart this kind of way that I'm being in this five that I'm sure I'm translating to other people, and it's been helping others too. And so that's kind of what I mean by being spiritual is I've kind of disciplined myself to a certain degree to do certain things like complete change over the way I used to be. And since I've been doing that, I've been getting this little spiritual guide in my brain, and I'm not bargaining with them anymore. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And not bargaining anymore. Right now I'm listening to them. And I'm taking action. I'm listening and doing what this little voice is telling me.
Speaker 1:Does that voice does that little voice ever have you do anything like kind of like, I don't know. Is that really what I should do? Like, I mean, you say you don't you don't bargain with it.
Speaker 2:But there was a time when I bargained with it when I first started turning towards being more spiritual. But now I've been listening to it, and nothing better than when you listen to it, and then something great happens, right? Yeah. And you get that reinforcement. And then you're like, Okay, well, why would I bargain with it?
Speaker 2:Why would I, you know, start saying, Hey, maybe I shouldn't do this. No, I throw caution to the wind, and it hasn't failed me.
Speaker 1:Now do you do you? I mean, it kind of gets into words, I guess. And it probably severs something that doesn't need severed. But so do you? Would you call that intuition?
Speaker 1:Would you call that like spirit soul? Like, you have any names? Or does it matter to you? Does it?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think it really matters, even though you know, in a Christian point of view, we would say that, that's the Holy Spirit, right? But it really doesn't matter. Frankly, I'm being guided by whatever's in my brain, right? And I think we all, even from a, you know, from an early age, we really know what the right thing is to do. It's when we start like saying, that doesn't feel good or no, you know, that doesn't make me get recognition or
Speaker 1:how can I get more? Yeah,
Speaker 2:you know, that doesn't give me any more money or maybe I shouldn't listen to that. And we do that. I mean, as human beings, that's kind of what we do is you start arguing with it and not listening to that voice, which is telling us really what we should do. And when we ignore it, then some consequences could happen, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man. You know what I heard the other day these people were talking about? It's not exactly this subject, but I think it does relate. They were saying, they asked like the smartest man or like the person with the highest IQ or someone who studies people with with high IQs or something basically like, what is the difference between someone who is like high IQ versus low IQ? And the sentence that he said was basically, the person with high IQ does not listen to the voice inside that says I'm not getting it.
Speaker 1:So it's like this constant trust of just lean into it. Don't second guess yourself. I don't know, it was crazy when I heard it. I really maybe sit back and contemplate. I was like, Wow, that's actually pretty.
Speaker 1:And I don't want to make any big fears about IQ. And I think there's a whole discussion about IQ that doesn't really even fit in here. But it's just as far as us trusting like that little voice and not trying to I love how you said don't bargain with it. Don't bargain with it. I think there's something really powerful about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just as soon as you don't listen to it, you start arguing with it, chances are you're going to make a bad decision, be honest with you, and then you're at consequences. And then life beats you up. And when life beats you up, you need to learn the lesson. If you would just listen to your voice, then you would have avoided that lesson.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, there's something about it. And I think it also is something just like when you make promises to yourself and you follow through with them, you're able to trust yourself more. I think when you commit to following that voice, and you kind of trust that voice, it just becomes more intuitive to follow as well. Think there's, there's something pretty sick about that that happens as well.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. Powerful. Very powerful.
Speaker 1:Well, so Dave, I just want to my sister is listening as far as my knowledge. Time wise, if you're willing, I would love to kind of float into I did promise a q and a to those who might be tuning in. Hello, nerds. I hope you're enjoying the episode. If you'd like to listen to the last bit of q and a, it's forty minutes of q and a.
Speaker 1:It's wonderful. It ties a bow on everything. It's on my YouTube channel, the Junkyard Love podcast, Junkyard Love and Jacob f t I, Jacob from the Internet. Go check it out. Please hit subscribe, follow, all that.
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