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A show for Real Estate Agents at any level, Buyers, Sellers and anyone interested in learning more about this crazy industry.
KELLY: the education things, the learning more
about the real estate, reading real estate Books
and going on real estate Forums. You should be
wanting to do all of that stuff because that's
what's setting you apart from everyone else.
JASON: Welcome to On The Real Estate with Kelly
DuBois, a show for real estate agents at any level,
buyers, sellers, or anybody interested in this
crazy real estate industry. I'm Jason Gillican,
CEO of Ear Fluence, and Kelly, I'm so excited
to chat with you today about a personality trait
that some people might feel is a positive for
real estate agents and people in sales. Some might
completely disagree. So I've been in sales as
a background my entire career, and so I'm excited
to talk to you about this.
KELLY: I'm always excited to talk about real estate
and personalities and people.
JASON: And your face, you're confused by why anybody
would say this could be a positive trait for sales.
But what we're gonna talk about in general is
arrogance, cockiness.
KELLY: Yeah.
JASON: But let's start off with, what are some
positive personality traits that you see in super
successful agents?
KELLY: I think that they're able to not make things
personal. not make things about themselves. It's
always about the client. Leaving your arrogance
kind of at the door, I suppose. I also think that
it is being able to be a team player because that's
probably one of the most important things. At
the end of the day, you want to be able to get
to the closing table and that's going to work
only if you can play with both sides.
JASON: Do you want to shout out anybody that you've
seen in your career that... has been somebody
that can do that really well.
KELLY: Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, if you've
been a real estate agent for over five years,
you can do that really well. There's a ton of
great real estate agents who are able to do it.
And I think that's also part of the irony. You're
superdouches or arrogance. They're either really
new, which is funny. or they're mediocre, who
have been like kind of just hanging on. But your
most badass agents, they're not, they're not in
that arrogance range. They're like. Let's do this.
I think at that point, they don't need to be arrogant.
And that's the difference. To me, if you're arrogant.
You're constantly having to feel like you're proving
something or you're trying to intimidate somebody
that you are more than you really are. Your numbers
in real estate or any sales speak for themselves.
Yeah. So at the end of the day, I'm in a mood
and I have a super douche on the other side. I'll
look up their numbers and compare them. And if
I have to look up an agent's numbers in my market,
you're already less. I already know it because
the numbers that I follow, they're on top. I already
know who they are.
JASON: Yeah. Note to self, name this episode,
don't be a super douche.
KELLY: Super douche. Don't do it. Yeah, I don't
like it. I don't, I mean, I can see your, where
you were kind of going with that. with the fact
that you need leadership. Yeah. You need to have
confidence. But there's a big difference between
confidence and arrogance, I think.
JASON: Yeah, no, I'm not talking about leadership
at any level. So in my sales career, I've seen
some people come in and they are not team players
at all. But they get on the phones and their cockiness
will come through on the phone. And so people
believe what they're telling them. Like they're
pretty good at selling. But at the same time,
like... there's a cap to how high they can get
by being somebody who is arrogant.
KELLY: I don't like arrogance in general. I genuinely
don't. Again, I'll stick with it. Your numbers
and how far you're gonna survive in any sales
position is going to speak volumes. But 86% of
people that get a real estate license don't practice
real estate in 12 months.
JASON: So why is that you?
KELLY: I mean. I don't think you're gonna get
very far with the whole arrogance card. But I
also think that the arrogance also is a different,
I don't know if it's a different demographic or
a different generation, but I do find most people
that have a little bit of a struggle of trying
to do real estate and realize that you have to
get to the other side with, or you have to get
to the closing table with the other side. I think
that it's people that come from positions that
were not really sales. I think they were higher
up positions in corporate America to where they
probably are not used to genuinely working by
themselves. They're used to having an assistant
or a team that did everything for them, and they
were just the ones that were lucky enough to get
the praise. And I don't think that that is also
how you're very successful in real estate. You
need to back yourself up with a really great team
that you connect yourself to, like your lender,
or your attorneys, or inspectors, things like
that. Bye. they're not doing the work for me,
right? You as the agent are doing the work. So
I think it's interesting when I take a step back
and realize the people who I think come across
are the agents that come across with the arrogance.
I mean, it sounds ridiculous to keep on saying,
but with the arrogance or to perceive that they're
more than they're not, or more than they are.
Like, I don't care what you did in your past job.
I don't care if you worked for NASA. I don't care
if you were a surgeon. I don't care if you ran
RTP and helped build it. I don't care because
you're not in that position anymore. So it's irrelevant.
Let's talk your real estate numbers. Let's talk
what you have done in the last 12 months. And
if you haven't done anything in 12 months, because
you're that new, that's okay. But then I wonder,
why are you arrogant?
JASON: Yeah.
KELLY: I think you have to be humble, because
you'll get knocked down really fast in here. And
I don't want to ever come across as a mean girl,
but I have no problem putting somebody kind of
in their place either.
JASON: Yeah, now let me push back just a little
bit because I don't think you should be arrogant
by any means, but there's a fine line between
being confident and being cocky slash arrogant.
because in sales, in real estate, you're gonna
get knocked down a lot.
KELLY: A lot.
JASON: Like you're gonna spend so much time with
a potential buyer or seller, and then that time
will amount to zero at times. And that hurts.
KELLY: Oh, yeah. People don't, I'm glad you brought
that up, because people don't also realize that,
one, there's zero loyalty in real estate. Well,
I think there's very little loyalty in anything
in general, right? But then you're talking about
in real estate, as an agent, you are a dime a
dozen. I mean, there's a million real estate agents
out there. So if. You know, you could be working
with somebody, like you said, for months, months,
and shown them. hundreds of houses, and then,
God forbid, you don't pick up your phone because
you're at your kid's sporting event, or you're
on a date, or you're sick, they'll just call another
real estate agent, lo and behold, that'll be the
house of their dreams, they'll put in an offer,
and you get paid nothing. That's it.
JASON: So how do you, okay, how do you get knocked
down then without losing confidence, right? To
some degree, you need to think like, oh, I'm still
good, like I'm still great at this job, even though
you just spent a ton of time and you got nothing
from that. You need to have some sort of... not
arrogance, but you know, some sort of self-confidence
that, you know what, this is gonna happen, optimism
even.
KELLY: Oh yeah, I'm all about being positive and
like the whole manifesting thing. I'm working
on it because I'm snarky. You know, that's a big
thing. I am. you do have to have a positivity
and a confidence that you are going to succeed.
Like. I'm going to succeed. I know that. Now,
by saying that, does that make me sound arrogant?
I don't know. You tell me, you just heard me say
it. I'm going to succeed. I guess if I just say
it. That's one thing, but then can you follow
it up with a why? And I guess for me, I'm going
to succeed because, well, failure's not an option.
Hmm. I really don't want to go back to any other
job or position. And I guess I genuinely know
I'm good at this job. And to say that... That's
not just my opinion. I can follow it up from.
hundreds of reviews. I can follow it up with success
of me of staying relevant in this market. for
five plus years. And that's a really big thing.
Are you still relevant in a market? When I say
relevant, it's not a popularity contest. It's
do you still have consistent buyers and sellers
wanting to work with you? Yeah. And if a client
wants to work with you, if people are still referring
you, and when I say people, I'm talking... buyers
and sellers like past and present clients, but
also other people. in the industry, your closing
attorneys, your lenders, you know, even other
agents. I work with a lot of referral agents that
are not... you know, directly in my area. And
actually, even agents who are in my area, I had
an agent, yes, or I had a client. Yesterday a
buyer, I have a listing. and He called me and
he's like, I'm working with this agent right now.
She is on vacation at the beach. She just told
me to call you directly. and wanted just said,
you know, she's unable to help me right now, but
I really wanted to see this house. I have a great
working relationship with that agent. I will,
I scheduled to show him that house and if he moves
forward with that house, I will just. give him,
hand him back to her if it's something we can
work out. That's how you make great relationships,
not constantly. building a wall between other
agents. queen of second guessing myself and my
biggest critic, which... is probably not a very
confident trait, but I will be like, oh shit,
I shouldn't have said that, or oh, I should have
done, you know, like I'll replay things at three
o'clock in the morning, and they're all of criticisms.
or how I should have maybe handled the situation
differently or if it would have been handled in
a different way, would have had a different outcome.
Yeah. Which is ridiculous. They're all things
that I'm saying right now that can no longer be
controlled but are still controlling my mind.
Yeah. But you do have to have a confidence to
yourself because I will say certain things to
myself and be like, you know, I'll pump myself
up and be like, we're gonna do this.
JASON: Yeah.
KELLY: You know?
JASON: Well, I think real estate is such a relationship
based industry. You've got to have those relationships,
like you mentioned, with the lenders, with other
members of your team, with buyer's agents, if
you're a seller's agent, all these different people,
right? And so if you're coming across as arrogant,
if you're coming across as like, you're better
than everybody else, Who's gonna wanna work with
you?
KELLY: No one. And the point of like building
those relationships, it's so underestimated and
essential for you to build those relationships
with other agents. I know I've said this before
in a past podcast. But like with the agent that
reached, that's that agent's client that said
just, Kelly will handle it, she can. There's two
things I know. She probably just genuinely wants
to have time at the beach with her family. which
is hard. Real estate, you kind of have a joke.
If you're ever not really busy with clients, just
go on vacation, all of a sudden, everybody and
their brother will want you. So that probably
is happening with her. But also for the other
aspect, I would never ever be like, oh, thanks
for your client, we're closing, and high five,
and never give him back or not give her her commission
based for that. That's her client. and I think
that that's something really important. Actually,
an agent told me a long time ago, and I will do
a shout out, an agent named Martha Lucas with
Remax United told me a long time ago when I was
a baby agent. The minute you start making real
estate about the money is the minute you fail.
Well, the minute that you start just making it
all about the commission checks and the dollar
signs and you are going to automatically stop
worrying about your clients, your reputation,
and being able to work with other agents. And
that is probably one of the... best pieces of
advice I've ever gotten in real estate because
it is so true. The minute you make it all about
money. And then there's an irony to that too,
because I say, I'll say to my newbie agents, whether
they have been agents. and just kind of came over
to our firm or agents that literally just got
there, passed their real estate test, I will tell
them whenever, you know, they're even talking
about, you know, coming in and wanting to hang
their license with us. The first thing I will
say to an agent is, do you like money? I will
come in every time, do you like money? And I want
to see how their face and body language reacts.
And the ones that automatically feel uncomfortable
or even like perplexed, they're not going to be
a top notch agent. They're not going to be a top
producing agent. the ones that right away are
like, hell yeah, I like money, I love money, I
like expensive things. That's going to be. That's
it. You have to like money to do anything in sales
because like we just pointed out, you don't get
paid if you don't close or work. It's all sales.
So you have to like money to keep that hamster
wheel spinning. You have to like money to be able
to keep going. You have to like money to be rejected
over and over again and hung up on. And if you
come on my property one more time, I'm going to
shoot you or call the police. Like, you're just
kind of like, oh, see you next week. Same time,
same place. You know, you have to be able to feel
okay calling somebody 10 times. Now not 10 times
in one day, but 10 times in say, you know, Two
months, and eventually, your goal is not to completely
and totally wear them down to where you get a
restraining order in the mail. But your goal is
to be like, they're resilient. They're confident.
They're a hard worker, you know? And those are
your traits that you need. So I can appreciate
like, you know, the whole, is that arrogance?
I don't know, is it arrogance to maybe a little
bit to keep bothering somebody? But I don't know
if it's genuinely bothering if they're picking
up the phone from you. If you've not been blocked,
you don't really know what you want at that moment.
JASON: Well, think about it from the other side,
right? If a real estate agent was calling me 10
times over two months, if I was actively looking
for a house, You know, I might not pick up the
first nine times because I'm playing with my kids
right then or I'm in a work thing right then.
Like, what are the odds that I'm actually gonna
pick up my phone? pretty slim. And so like, if
somebody is still interested in my business and
I have not told them like, look, stop calling
me. Like that's an invitation to keep calling
me.
KELLY: Yeah. Yeah. And that's how I look at it
too. Cause people are like, oh, you're going to
call them again or oh, you know, yes. Until they
literally say, Hey, Kelly. or that would be the
nicest thing they could say. Don't call me. But.
That's fine. I mean, I've got super thick skin.
I have three brothers and I have an ex-husband.
You're not gonna hurt my feelings. You're not
gonna hurt my feelings. So it is what it is.
JASON: You've told me that you've had to tell
agents, you're not special.
KELLY: You're not special.
JASON: Yeah, so talk a little bit more about that.
KELLY: Your mom thinks you're special. Hopefully,
hopefully. Well, I guess that goes back to...
Me preventing arrogance. That's my public service
for preventing more arrogant humans. But you're
not special in sales. You're grinding and you're
constantly moving and hopefully improving yourself
and getting better and building confidence in
relationships. But... What would make a real estate
agent really that special? I don't even know.
I don't even know, again, sales. What would make
a salesperson so special? What? What in any job
makes somebody so special? Are you special because
you worked your ass off? Great. But shouldn't
you work your ass off if you're the one that wants
the money and to reap the rewards? Ironically,
I think in this industry of sales as a whole,
I think the harder you work, the harder you grind,
and the more you put your name out, the more shade
you're gonna get thrown at you, the more hate
you're going to get, the more little whispers
or tidbits about that person you're going to hear.
So really, ironically, I think the more successful
you become, be prepared for a little bit of the
hate. And I think when you start to receive the
hate, you're starting to make it. You're starting
to ruffle some feathers. You're starting to be
noticed. And that's an interesting thing to say
because I do remember the first time that I was,
I received some hate. And... It bothered me more
than I would. Well, what happened? I thought.
It was actually an agent in my office that told
me what somebody had said about me. And we were
having an agent meeting and it was a builder that
said, oh yeah, Kelly's a bitch. I really don't
want to, I don't have any desire to attach our
name with her and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, I never met that person. I never
met that person. What in the world? So it really
bothered me because There are a lot of people
who do think that I can be a bitch or I can be
abrupt or I can be, um... obstinate and that's
all well deserved. It genuinely is because if
I'm working with somebody or representing somebody,
there are gonna be times no matter how well I
play with the other side that I do have to remember
I'm representing one side. one side is who I have
my fiduciary duty to. So if we cannot both meet
in the middle and make this. happen, there are
going to be times where I'm going to have to have
to fight for my client or fight for my firm. Because
I have two roles, I have two hats. So there are
times whenever I know that those things being
said about me are well deserved, but I also know
that there are times when those things are being
said about me, I did an amazing job. because I
represented my client the best I could. I did
keep my heels in, you know, I did not. cower or
cave for them and get them less. So when I heard
that about the other, I had to stop and think
about it. And it bothered me one, that somebody
was talking about me that I had never known or
dealt with. And it was about me, but I think the
thing that also really bothered me is, it was
being impacted in a negative way now for the firm.
And as a co-owner now, I was being, reeled into
where it almost felt like the firm was kind of
getting backlash because of them not liking me.
And then I had to, I couldn't, I can't let things
go. I'm like a freaking pit bull. So like once
I'm like put my teeth into it, I'm not letting
go until I decide it's time to let go. So I had
to think about it like, well, our firm does a
ton of commercial land deals and we work with
national builders and we work with regular local,
you know, smaller builders. And I was like, where
did that come from? Well, there is one builder
that as a buyer's agent, I've sold their product,
we have had to go back and forth. Well, it ultimately
had come down to that of them not liking the way
that I, two deals had gone down now. Two deals
went down in a sour way because that builder did
not follow through with their contract for the
buyers and I made them change things out. One,
the siding was wrong. They're not gonna pay for
it. And I even gave them the choice. You don't
have to take the whole siding down. That sounds
crazy. Just give them a price reduction then.
That's what my clients wanted. They did not care.
And then the other one was a house that we should
have closed on and they kept changing the closing
date and then to accommodate them. And at that
point, they were in breach of contract as a builder
slash seller. So again, that was also going to
be something that needed to be handled. So. I
was a bitch because I stood up for my clients
to get them what they needed, which is fine, I
don't care. but now the fact that they were talking
about me to somebody. else that I'd never had
any dealings with, that frustrated me. Bye.
JASON: Like you said, once you get the hate, like
that's how you know you made it.
KELLY: So I mean, that builder is going to, oh,
this is gonna be an arrogant comment, you guys.
I just realized it, but is it arrogant or comfort?
That builder is going to need my firm more than
I'm ever gonna need that builder.
JASON: That's right.
KELLY: So is that arrogance? Maybe. That's just
facts. Or it's just facts, really.
JASON: So, okay. Yeah, that's awesome. I think
the last point on arrogance that we should touch
on. is education and growing yourself. Because
I feel like if you're arrogant, you don't really
feel like you need to learn or you're not really
taking that continuing education seriously. Because
you don't have that humility to be like, okay,
there are things that I need to learn to make
myself better. Have you seen that in real estate
agents?
KELLY: I see that in my own agents. I see that
in all real estate agents. It's so frustrating
to... have that happen and see that because You
know, if you are a real estate agent or if you're
not a real estate agent, fun fact, July 1 is whenever
all forms, like your real estate forms, They are
all updated. So as of July 1, they're all new
or have slight changes or tweaks to them. So that's
the whole point of CEO classes, continuing education
classes. Real estate agents have to take eight
hours, two classes of continuing ed classes. Well,
the continuing ed classes start in July. So we
are here, right? We just hit this. All the new
forms now have implemented any changes. You find
those out in your continuing ed classes, which
are mandatory. The commission makes you take those.
If you don't, then you're in trouble with the
commission. But as a firm, we'll do trainings
and meetings to review the changes, to review,
you know, point out where the differences are.
And sometimes they're so slight, they're really
difficult to even notice. But sometimes they're
so slight, they're easy to miss. And if you miss
them and there's an issue, that's coming back
on the agent and the firm. So we're off, we do
these classes right now and I'm telling you, today
we have a meeting and it's like pulling teeth
getting our agents there. Now my baby agents,
my newbies, they're there. I just love them. They
are so anxious and ready to learn. But my past
agents who are starting to get a little bit comfortable
are kinda like, yeah, I might make it. I'm like,
mm, you're gonna be there. Because that's starting
now, when I hear I might make it, I'm starting
to hear, ooh, we're getting a little too big for
your britches. And it's time for me to say, you're
not special. I love you, but you're not special.
and don't become that person to think you're exempt.
and get your tail to the meeting so that you can
hear about the changes, which are going to set
you a step above anybody else who's not willing
to do that. And that's the thing is like the education
things. the learning more about the real estate,
reading real estate Books and going on real estate
Forums. that, you should be wanting to do all
of that stuff because that's what's setting you
apart from everyone else. That's what's making
you, that is what is going to make you a little
bit more special. That is what's going to make
you more successful. That is going to... be what's
going to save you. when you look like a superhero
to your client because you caught something that
the other side missed. And when you do that, when
you catch something that the other side missed,
you very nicely reach out to that agent on the
other side. Don't make them feel like a dumbass
and simply inform them of it. Let them make the
changes. and that's it. That's all you have to
do. Be knowledgeable. Be respectful. and just...
Be willing to help and learn. But the minute you
stop wanting to learn and be helpful. You're going
to be one of those 86%. Because if for nothing
else, other agents will want to run you out and
don't think that doesn't happen. I can't rest.
JASON: Ooh, okay. That is good stuff. You think
about the Forums and the CEs and the Books. What
if that CEO class helped you not lose $10,000
in commission? What if a book that you read and
you got one idea from that, that helped you get
an extra $10,000 in commission because you're
able to sell or you're able to contact a potential
buyer for whatever reason? What if one forum idea
got you something where you made a little bit
more money because of that? Just the one thing.
Let's say it's a two hour class. In that two hours,
if you can make or not lose thousands and thousands
of dollars in commission, it's certainly worth
it.
KELLY: Yeah. I mean, there's a great book. I think
the one real estate agent, like my real estate
agent, like Hero, would probably be Gary Keller
for Keller Williams. He's spectacular. He has
a great book out there. You can get it on Amazon.
It's like $11, people. Read it, you know, but
you have to make it through the whole thing. It's
just wanting to make yourself a little bit set
apart from the others. Don't, don't. Don't just
fall into the own, you know, I always say that.
Don't let yourself fall into the pack. Brand yourself,
market yourself, educate yourself. This is your
game, what are you gonna do with it? How are you
gonna handle it?
JASON: Yeah.
KELLY: how you're gonna stand out, and you're
gonna stand out. You can stand out however way
you want. You can be a super douche. Stand out
that way. I mean, some people really do genuinely
succeed that way. You know?
JASON: But there's a cap.
KELLY: But there's a cap. Or you can handle it,
you know. in a different manner of just having
that being that confident agent who is not going
to... you know, have to constantly, you know,
think they're constantly more. That's exhausting.
It is exhausting.
JASON: What's the name of that book again?
KELLY: The Millionaire Real Estate Agents.
JASON: If you write a review on Apple Podcasts
or Spotify and you go ahead and send a screenshot
of that to at on the Real Estate Pod on Instagram,
we'll put you in a drawing for, to send out that
book.
KELLY: So, does that work? We'll send five Books.
JASON: Five Books.
KELLY: Well, it's really good. I mean, it really
is an amazing book. If you care at all about your
career, you should read it. So I'm willing to
give five people that book.
JASON: Okay, well you heard it here first. So
write a review on Apple Podcasts, screenshot it,
send it to at on the Real Estate Pod on Instagram
and you'll be in a drawing for five.
KELLY: That is a $20 book, so a $100 value.
JASON: Wow, all right, cool. All right, well,
Kelly, this has been an awesome episode. Before
we get you out of here, do you have a can't make
this shit up moment from recently that you wanna
share?
KELLY: I mean, this deal today's driving me nuts.
The lady has an outstanding water bill. We can't
close until she pays it.
JASON: Until she pays a water bill?
KELLY: Yeah. Is that a girl can't make a shut
up?
JASON: Yeah, like why is she not paying the water
bill?
KELLY: People wanna fuck with me today. That's
it. I'm already feeling, bitch, how much is your
watermelon? I will pay it.
JASON: Yeah. How much can it be?
KELLY: I don't know. She hasn't lived in the house
for like three months. So the water bill cannot...
JASON: I mean, like $150 maybe. Oh my gosh. Can't
make this shit up.
KELLY: Yeah, it's driving me crazy. I just think
it's a real estate day. Some days are just better
than others and today it seems to be all kinds
of. insanity at once. But tomorrow will be better.
JASON: That's awesome. All right, well, Kelly,
this has been a great conversation about arrogance,
humbleness, cockiness, being a super douche. It
was so great to see you again.
KELLY: Thank you. Have a good time. Don't forget
our reviews so we can send you how to be a millionaire
real estate agent.
JASON: That's right. All right, everybody. Thanks
for listening. Thanks for watching. If you like
this show, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts
on YouTube, wherever you listen to your podcast.
And we'll be back again soon with the next episode
of On The Real Estate with Kelly DuBois.