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Buying a home in Japan sounds like a fantasy until you meet the people who actually make it happen.
YukiHomes Presents is a show about Japan... its houses, its regions, and what it really takes for a foreigner to own a piece of it. From the snow country of Hokkaido and Nagano to the cities, coasts, and small towns in between, it's a look at the country through the eyes of the people who help others put down a stake in it.
Every episode goes deep on one thing. Sometimes that's property: what an akiya is and why old Japanese houses sell for the price of a used car, how a foreigner actually buys and renovates a home, which regions are worth it and which are hype. Sometimes it's everything around the houses: the food, the seasons, the onsen towns and ski hills, the design and craft, the culture, and the parts of doing this that are harder than anyone admits.
Hosted by Nick and Derek, co-founders of YukiHomes, and Grant (YukiHomes PR & Media Lead). Along the way you'll meet the builders, guides, shop owners, and buyers who know this country better than any guidebook.
No top-10 travel lists. Just honest conversations about Japan, and what it takes to own a piece of it.
New episodes every other week.
www.yukihomes.com
www.nipponhomes.com
[00:00:00] Like, what is the difference between what you do and someone giving up surf spots? 'Cause in a way it's very similar.
All right. Welcome back to Yuki Homes Presents. We are here today with Derek and Clayton from Black Diamond Lodge and Hokkaido Backcountry Club. Today, we're gonna be talking kind of everything from the gaijins are ruining Japan debate to maybe some cool stuff that Clayton's gone through in the backcountry, and he's been in Niseko for, I think, almost 20, if not over 20 years.
So yeah, Clayton, if you wanna go ahead and introduce yourself, that'd be awesome. Hey, thanks for, uh, first of all, inviting me. You know, it's a contro- s- it's somewhat controversial topic. I just wanna see what's best for Japan. I've been here, yeah, since '97, I think, or '98 I came here to live permanently. Came here in '95, '96 on a working holi- or no, sorry, a summer holiday.
Blew my mind how J- [00:01:00] We, we never knew Japan to be the place it is now. Everyone sees it. And came back after university and, uh, in '98, and, uh- Wow ... never left. Never left. Yeah, a little while. So you've been in Japan- So- ... since I was five Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Originally, I was gonna start a guiding company for Japanese going to Canada because I didn't even realize...
I mean, back then, Jimbocho, Kanda area, that's in Tokyo where all the ski and snowboard shops are. Back then, it was insane how many shops there were and how many boards were in the shops, and so I was gonna do a snowboard specific tour company for Japanese coming to Canada because it d- didn't, amount of sales that was happening there, I didn't even realize that they had snow, to be honest with you.
I'd heard about it a little bit. Mm-hmm. Didn't see it from my own eyes. Tried to do that business. Tried to create a business in Canada for Japanese coming over. Got one customer. It was, learned a lot, learned a lot. I ran out of money, so I moved here after graduating with [00:02:00] university and got a job in, in the Tokyo, actually no, in the Hakuba area, but then I, then it wasn't gonna start for, like, three weeks, so I said, "Do you mind if I go up to Hokkaido?"
Because I just see all these big snowman, uh, marks on the weather report. And they're like, "Yeah, sure, go up there until it starts." And d- the next day I was neck deep in powder and I... Honestly, the next day after that I got a job and an apartment and, uh, stayed here forever. Wow. That's awesome. Is Jimbocho, like, the, that's where all the used books are, right?
Correct. There's, like, they got music instruments, books, and it used to be more than it is now, but a ton of sports stores. Yeah, 'cause I was just there and I, like, maybe this was last summer, and I didn't see any snowboard shops. That's crazy. So back then it was a ton of snowboard shops? You have to go around the corner, basically.
Okay. Yeah. There's, it's, there's, they've organized every street. It has to be, I don't know how that is, but there's a music instrument area, there's a book area, and then there's- Okay ... around the co- between Kanda and Jimbocho Station, lots of sports stores there. Nice. [00:03:00] Not like it was back then, but it's still pretty cool.
Yeah. That's sweet. So if you're flying in and you need to pick up some sticks, you can head over there? Yeah. So, uh, Japan used to be, like, 30% more expensive than, we can talk about that, too, if you want, if we have time. Japan used to be 30% more expensive for everything. Like, 'cause all the brands would come here and they'd, every brand would have a distributor, which they still do, but Japan was, the economy was kicking ass back then in the 1990s- Right
when the, just before the bubble burst. Mm-hmm. Uh, what actually carried the snowboard ind- or the ski, the ski industry was snowboarding was still building up at that point. And so people, brand companies could charge a premium here and get away with it. So it used to be, Japanese used to fly to Canada and get totally fitted out there.
Wow. Wow. Instead, now it's the opposite, now it's the opposite way, where prices, because the Japanese people earn so little on average compared to back home- Mm-hmm ... which is another- Deflation ... topic we could talk about. Ri- ridiculous how much people get paid in, back in- Yeah ... the US and Canada now. Yeah, deflation happened, [00:04:00] and the prices remain the same, and then sales happen every year.
Of course, at snowboard shops, and it's cheaper to get kitted out here now than it is, and that's what's Chinese people are doing now. They're coming over- And they're buying all their shit here No, we've seen it. Yeah, I mean, essentially, correct me if I'm wrong, but like prices generally haven't moved much in Japan since the late '90s, right?
There has been like a pretty- Very little. Yeah. Very little. Yeah. They're just going up n- well, they, they started to creep up. Actually, that's not true. Past three years, I've seen prices go up quite a bit, uh- Mm-hmm ... on everything. You can see it at the convenience stores. Right from the convenience stores- Yeah
to every- everywhere, which is good. I mean, at some point they gotta go up. I mean, talking about the wages too, though, they've been struggling to get Japanese wages up, so that kind of probably holds prices down, the whole kind of ecosystem. Price, e- exactly. Without increasing the wages- Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to raise prices- It's a bit, it's a bit-
and they're just pricing for non-locals or... Yeah ... the, the weak yen is probably good. The weak yen is good for exporting Japanese stuff and raising the wages. And what I think [00:05:00] is gonna happen in the future is it's gonna become, like it was when I first got here, I used to tell everybody, I was teaching English when I first came here, I used to tell everybody- Nice
about how cheap Canada was, how cheap, like, a s- a 24-pack of beer was, how cheap whiskey was, how cheap blah, blah, blah. And now I do the opposite. I'm like, "Man, Japan's a deal. You gotta come over here." So it's, it, Canadian wages and, and, uh, entitlement in North America went through the roof, and Jap- Japan just, like, people live a much simpler lifestyle here.
People gam- gaman, which i- per- per... What's the, what's the word? Uh, persist with- Yeah ... much lower amounts. They don't need as much as bigger and better that we need in North America. It's, it's an interesting... But no, yeah, the prices, everything needs to, wages need to go up. Everything needs to go up. And it's finally starting to creep up, but- Mm-hmm
I just saw a statistic, and you guys probably seen the same thing. The aver- 51% of the people in Japan households [00:06:00] earn less than, I think, 18,000 US dollars. Yeah. 51%. Yeah. That's insane. I saw, I think the median, yeah, is, like, 21,000. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's insane. Definitely something needs to change.
That is also, like, a, you know, a result of the extremely weak yen, right? So, like, if the yen... 'Cause that is in US ter- US dollar terms that they're talking. Yeah, well, I think just deflation. It... When the prices don't go up, why would wages go up? Mm. They didn't have to go up yet. Uh, they weren't, Japan wasn't ready for all this, this tourism.
Like, back in the day, you said hello to every single foreigner that you saw on the streets. Mm. You can't do that anymore. You'd be too busy. They didn't predict the tourism thing. This tourism thing is what's, I think, putting stuff into turbo drive as well, because they can see the demand for it. I, I do believe in two-tier pricing, that they should be trying to offer Japanese people who earn lower wages better discounts on stuff and, and charge the tourists.
That's what, that's what I think should happen in two. Yeah. I, I don't think that's a bad idea. I know Disney is doing that, right? No, that's right. Yeah. And, and what I've just been hit [00:07:00] with back home, there is a occupan- or... And this parlays into what you guys are doing. I'm, I'm trying to per- persuade Niseko town to institute a speculation and occupancy tax.
So if you're here, and you're buying a place, and you're letting it sit empty, and no one's renting it, you can, you should be allowed to have that, but you should pay taxes on that. And those taxes should be used to build affordable housing for the people who do live here and do work and, and, and s- and make the system work.
Yeah. I think that's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's a, I think, like, a non-residency tax like that is a good idea, and I think, yeah, I think a lot of people would be open to that. Like, you know, we could dive into it. Yeah. But I think... Yeah. You go ahead, man. How long is this podcast? Usually it's like 40 minutes 30 to 40?
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So- So let's stick to some- We'll try to-- I'm gonna try to get through a couple things right now. Basically, like I-- we just kinda wanna hear some positioning. So like I don't wanna represent you unfair- unfairly. So what exactly is the harm when a foreigner buys an abandoned house in a [00:08:00] depopulating village?
Like, I'm trying to understand who exactly is worse off. Well, what are they gonna do with that property? Use it probab- I would... I guess I'll speak to what most of our clients do, so. Yeah, we can talk about our clients. Yeah. So, so they use it about, I would say, average a month in the winter, and then a lot of them end up coming for maybe a week or two in the summer, and then they often Airbnb it to offset the cost of owning it I would say that's pretty standard client profile.
75% of the clients that we're representing, yeah, are doing... If, if not Airbnb, like if it's not in a ryokan-eligible place or they don't wanna kind of go through that licensing process, then they can do residential renting. You know, we have a platform for that. There are other platforms for that. Um, and yeah, we are trying to get obviously, like, more people to stay in the house and stimulate the economy.
But I'm trying to figure out, like, what's the negative w- impact of that? Yeah. Why do people... I think the most people that are unhappy with... It's not just you guys. There's a bunch of people doing the same sort of thing. Mm-hmm. And, [00:09:00] I mean, it's, it's... Exploitation is a, is a bad co- connotation, but it's almost exploitation of an opportunity that exists right now that we don't know what the implications are gonna be in the future of doing all this stuff.
I can tell you right now in Tokyo, there's a lot of people upset with the Airbnb action because the foreigners, they think things are okay. Oh, it's okay. It's, that's- Mm-hmm. 'Cause they think like a foreigner, and they don't think like a Japanese person. Japanese people will not tell you how they really feel.
Right. Japanese... And I hate that part of the culture. No, I know. To be honest with you, I hate that part of the culture. I've been here 30 years, and I just, I beg people to tell me exactly how they feel and don't talk behind my back. Make it ha- Just let me know and I'll solve, we'll solve the problems, and that isn't the way the Japanese system is, so you really gotta think about other peop- Anyway, people who are here for a quick holiday, they don't sort the garbage properly.
They're probably louder. Of course. They park the car where they think, oh, it's okay. It'll be okay. It was just for a night. And that drives people absolutely [00:10:00] insane. Like, the parking is a real, uh... Uh, so you're talking about rural Japan. Okay. Now, if you're talking about rural Japan, if it's an old farmhouse, you know what?
There's not much harm in that. But what I fear about all of that is dude buys a farmhouse for $30,000. The septic tank needs to be replaced. Mm-hmm. That's gonna be $20,000. Mm-hmm. You know, up to. Up to. You know, you can get cheaper ones. Oh, of course. You can get smaller ones. There's... Now you have to rely on somebody who sp- You can't just go out and find the contractor to do that.
You have to rely on your management company. You're not gonna have a lot of choices of who, what management company you have. What's gonna end up happening, and this is all over the world. People buy a holiday home. They think it's gonna be a great idea. They fix it up. They love it for the first couple, three years.
They go a little bit less each year. They go a little bit less, and then it becomes a burden, and that same house, unless the value of that property actually goes up or unless they can f- I mean, a property's only worth what someone's willing to pay for it, right? Mm-hmm. [00:11:00] So I believe that you're postponing, uh, not necessarily the inevitable, but real- I think...
Listen, this is what I think it is. I think it's clickbait. I think when you see a house for $10,000, you're like, "What?" Yeah, of course. Where? And then you don't realize all the costs, and in the end of the day, if you're, if you're renting in rural Japan, you could probably find a house for rent for a pretty reasonable price.
Now, there's not that many- Yeah ... that exist. This is a, a business that's building. Mm-hmm. I would like to see ownership- Right, with Western amenities and all that stuff. Yeah, I'd like to s- I would like to see... So what is the, the problem I have with it? It's j- it's, it's just like the Hokkaido Wilds, which is a, a website dedicated to doing the right thing by showing- Mm
everybody where all the backcountry zones are. The backcountry trails and stuff. And- Yeah ... do you think that's a good idea when someone does a, d- makes a best places to surf website? I don't think it's a good idea because what I think it does is it just turbocharges everything. Mm-hmm. And the, the [00:12:00] discovery of these spots, you know, I mean, Bali's a great example of...
I mean, Bali is- Yeah ... a lot- Yeah ... way ahead of this. They call Niseko the Bali of Japan Yeah. I guess my question would be, like, what... And this isn't, this isn't an attack, it's an honest question. Sure. No, yeah. Like, what is the difference between what you do and someone giving up surf spots? 'Cause in a way it's very similar.
Like, you're pa- you're selling access to backcountry routes that people don't know about. Absolutely, but we don't put it online. Yeah, I know. But you go there and they, one person tells 10 people and, I mean, that is how everything spreads. Well, how- Yeah ... is it different than what, what... I'm sorry, I, I don't...
And how is it different than surf? I mean, this is kinda similar, too, though. Like, there's pretty heavy localism. I would say it's way worse in surfing than it is in, like, skating, backcountry, snowboarding, any of that stuff. And I mean, I've been on surf trips in Mexico where if you don't have a guide, you're not allowed in the water.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I mean, that does make sense. And if you guys, you specifically, are protecting that area and you're protecting those [00:13:00] backcountry routes. And I think the biggest part of it is, like, making sure people aren't out there that can't handle themselves out there. They're gonna put themselves and other people at risk, and that's probably the biggest reason for localism.
I mean, I live at Windansea in La Jolla, like, super localized. People used to die for going out at the wrong place. And I think going back to what you said earlier, like, I feel like when you say they don't learn the culture, your objection isn't necessarily that they shouldn't come at all, the foreigners I'm talking about.
It's really that they should come and integrate and learn the culture. Am I wrong? 100%. Because those, those are really different arguments. One, one, 100%. You, so I know you guys are out there to make money, and there's an opportunity to do this, right? And listen, our- You gotta be in business to make money. If you guys were Japan-based, like I said this before on, on our text.
Mm-hmm. If you're Japan-based, I already say, okay, they're, they are responsible for their actions, if you will, because they're, they live in Japan and they have to deal with their [00:14:00] neighbors. They have to de- or, or deal with the complaints directly, and there's no... I'm not sure, how do you guys operate the business right now?
Like, how, who- Yeah, so we- Is- Yeah, so we have, like- You're not real estate agents. No. So we're consultants, and then we have probably five or six agents that we partner with, and then we have, what, nine employees at this point. Yeah. And- I mean, including subcontractors, probably upwards of 20, 25, but nine directly all in Japan.
Yeah. So I mean, 90% of our business is based in Japan. We are the only two really that are not, and we're there, you know, 90 to 100 days a year. We, and I, you know, this isn't, I'm not here to defend our business at all. Like, I do wanna hear, hear you out, but we have met all the neighbors of all the houses that we represent, whether it's through us or someone on our team.
So, you know, neighbors and communities do have direct lines to us. And, uh- Mm-hmm ... you know, we just recently opened a GK in Japan, so we can actually do some of these things that you're talking about and do 'em right. Yeah. So, so you opened, so you, did [00:15:00] you do, do you guys have... Question, big problem that I don't know if you watch our social media, but I am very combative with the guerrilla guides and instructors, I call them.
Uh-huh. Guerrilla guides and instructors, they come over here for two months a year. They teach or they guide, uh, these are professional guides, professional instructors, and they don't have visas. Mm-hmm. What about you guys? So we just have tourist visas How does that work? Yeah. We have tourist visas currently.
Isn't that a problem? Well, that's kind of the reason why we have- we're opening up this GK so that we can sponsor work visas and then pay income tax in Japan when we're there working. So most of the money we earn, we earn, like, in the US as consultants. So anything we earn in Japan is gonna be earned through the GK that we will be paying all our, all our employees through.
So- Yeah. So again- The, the main reason we don't move to Japan, you know, is, is really just, like, a family thing personally. Family. You know? Yeah. It's just hard to ... Like I was saying in the messages, you know, my brother just had a kid. He lives five minutes away from me. Stuff like that is what keeps me- I get it
from moving, 'cause I would love to live in Japan. Okay. And d- [00:16:00] no offense, but I feel like there's been a couple posts where you said you moved to Japan, or, or stories or whatnot. Uh, that's what it sure seems like in the, the posts that are ... The one that I saw. I actually looked for it right now, couldn't find it, so it, we, maybe that was a story, I'm not sure.
Doesn't matter. What I'm saying is I think the people ... I have a lot more respect for the ... Same thing with the guiding world. Uh, there's a bunch of guiding companies that only come here. They're Japan-based, and they actually have visas to work and run a business here, but they're only here for the best part of the years in the wintertime.
Yeah. What about summer? What about building a community? I don't think, and this is ... You can't argue with this. Mm-hmm. Airbnbs don't build communities. Those- No, I totally agree. Yeah. They don't build communities- So- ... and that's the problem I have. Huh? I totally get that, and- Yeah ... we got, I feel like we are going down a rabbit hole, and let's, like, I wanna keep, keep moving.
On the guides point, though, yeah, I, I agree. We try to support local guides, local guiding companies. We're pretty close with a guy named Mako. He's out of Sapporo. He's lived [00:17:00] there his whole life. You probably do. Maybe not. I'm sure you know him, right? Mako? I feel like it's a small world, like- I do know Ma- I, I do know Mako, and yeah.
He's a funny guy. He, I, we, like- Let, let's just say ... Yeah, he's, he seems like a nice guy. There are a lot of Japanese guides who work with foreign pr- uh, professional guides who don't sponsor them for visas. That's all I'm gonna say on that topic right there. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Okay. And that's another ... And the JMGA, the Japan Mountain Guide Association, is trying to shut down companies like ourselves because we're not JMGA guides.
Yeah. So there's a lot of- No, I get that. Listen, the longer you live in Japan, I know it's a beautiful place, and people are really nice. My neighbors are awesome. I love my p- the people I'm friends with here. But there is so much hate going on just below the surface, and you're never- Mm-hmm ... ever gonna understand that- Mm-hmm
until you live here. Yeah. So what I always promote is, as a foreigner, even though I've been here 30 years, I still have to live a better ... I have to be [00:18:00] above and beyond the average. For ... I, I get that. And lead by example. Yeah. So- So Yeah, I guess like, so hold on. I mean- To one point like that could... 'Cause when you were talking about Airbnbs don't make communities, that's something like me and Nick talk about a lot.
We, we totally agree. You know, obviously the best solution for these dying towns would be people living there full-time, having kids, jobs, et cetera, all that. And I don't think people buying vacation homes is like, you know, the best way to solve the problem. I do think it's, in my opinion, better than the status quo 'cause I think it leads people to be there more, spend more time there, spend money at local businesses- Yeah.
I mean- ... et cetera. But I do agree. Like I, you know, I wish there was a, a, a better solution. That's where I was going. Like, Japan's current path is 3 million fewer people every five years. Do you think that's fine? Or like what, do you agree that something needs to change? No, it's... Well, here's my opinion, is that New Zealand is about the same size as Japan.
It has, I think, [00:19:00] 7 million people, and they seem to run their country okay. Now, there's a lot of infrastructure in Japan. Absolutely there is. Yeah. But 125 million people, if you can't run your... If you have to continue to cr- increase your population in order to make your company or your, your country run There's a fundamental problem with capitalism or whatever it is right now.
So no, I, I think the three million people a year, that's just the way it is. That's how it's gonna be going. Here's another problem. I'll parlay that really quickly here. You're right, there's all these properties for sale. Well, guess the pro- the maj- a lot of these bigger properties are being bought up by the Chinese.
Mm-hmm. And the Ch- I mean, they're good, they're good at doing business. They're here, they're like, "Wow, we can do this?" This is... We're actually operating just barely within the law. Mm-hmm. And there's a been a lot of times, and I'm not targeting just Chinese, but it seems like- ... they're in the news more than anybody else.
They're building, they're buying stuff. They're developing without permission. Right. They're tearing down [00:20:00] forest, and they know that all they're gonna do is get a f- $100, $200 fine- Yeah ... or something like that. Yeah. So when there's so much foreign ownership in the country, people start to resent foreigners.
So it- it's natural That's interesting that you say that, actually. Yeah. That there's so much foreign ownership and so much foreign investment. So w- this is something that I've been, like, super curious about, and in 2024, foreign direct investment as a share of Japan's GDP, or, like, gross domestic product, or, like, total amount of money that they generate, Japan was 198th out of 200 countries, only behind...
And they were behind North Korea. So it's, it's really interesting that people are saying there's too much foreign investment and, like, that's the problem, because there's actually 3% of the population is foreign residents right now in Japan, and that's in a, in a country of 123 million. So I mean, I'm not trying to negate your point, but it is very interesting that the fear-mongering [00:21:00] kind of sentiment is that there's too much inward foreign d- foreign investment when it's 198th out of 200 countries according to the OECD.
And I, I just... I don't know. Like, if, if that's... So if that's not the problem, like, what is? You know? And, like, I'm not s- I don't know the answer. I think a lot of it is- Yeah, I understand what you're saying ... is maybe... Yeah. I think the government... I... Listen, this is just, it's just like real estate here in Niseko.
I don't have a good reputation with the real estate agents here because I call them out all the time. How- I don't know if people realize this, but in Japan, a real estate agent can go, somebody wants to sell a property, an old guy wants to sell his property, he's like, "Oh man, it's worth about $20,000." That real estate agent buys it, turns around, and flips it in the same day- Right
which has happened here. I've heard of that. In the same- Yeah ... day, and they've made $100,000. No, that sucks. It just happened to us, actually. I bought a place in Yunosato here. I paid what I, the most I would pay for it, which was, I think, 130 grand. I found out later on, this [00:22:00] Japanese real estate company bought it for Like, 6 million yen, and then flipped it to us for 13 million, made $70,000- Yeah
or 70,000, whatever, 7 million yen. And those poor people who should have got the money didn't get the money. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So- Right ... I've called out a lot of the real estate- Talk about exploitation. Well, yeah. So there's, it's, there's opportunity, right? The, the real estate agent's like, "Well, we're not doing anything illegal."
Yeah. You're allowed to do that. That's true. Same with you guys. You're not doing anything illegal. Uh, I don't know about the visa whole thing, but that's, whatever, you guys gotta figure that one out yourselves. But I just want everyone to be on the legal, on the same- Yeah ... I just wish people would move to Japan- Playing field
full time. I get it. Businesses that run full time here in Japan should get either s- protected or subsidies versus people who choose not to be here full time. Yeah. You know, I think- Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I- I think, like- I don't know if that's, like, a good thing though, because And these are all, like, complete facts I know.
Sure, sure Foreign, foreign investment in business has increased productivity in Japan, [00:23:00] period. All purely domestic sheltered businesses are, like, the weak parts and the weak industries in Japan, and that's what a lot of what is holding the yen down. So Japan's productivity historically has always been higher in sectors exposed to international competition.
And I think, like, increasing output per worker, restoring entrepreneurship, and, like, real structural reform is probably a better prescription than, like, continue to close off walls. And I agree with you, there's definitely exploitation going on, but I truly think Japan is, like, one of the greatest countries filled with super ambitious, smart, creative people, and they're, like, almost trapped in...
Like you said, in the '90s it was vibrant, and now a lot of these institutions are, like, ossified and shutting down. And I think the fix, in my opinion, is opening them up, like, to more potential foreign investment, but also just letting it, making it easier for locals who are entrepreneurial to- Yeah ... to start getting in there.
Well, the, the, the, the language barrier [00:24:00] is not something that- Yeah ... all of these homeowners are going to be able to tackle probably ever in their lives, to be honest with you. The Japanese, especially when you go to rural Japan, the dialect that they speak, it's, like, hard for even Japanese people to understand people from Akita, for example.
They just speak with a real namath, what's, it's a dialect. So anyway, that- that's gonna be a big problem, and because you can't communicate, there could be miscommunication. And here's something, for example. In Okinawa, the Chinese are buying up Okinawa 'cause they're smart. They're businesspeople, right?
They're coming in here, they're like, "Okay, I'm gonna buy this. I'm gonna throw it on Airbnb." And I would ra- I... What needs to be happening is that Japanese people, you know what? They're not that, they're... Are they innovative? The education system in Japan does not teach you- They are very innovative. Well, yeah.
It's interesting. They are. They, they're super innovative, but they, they don't use their innovation for profit nearly as much as other countries. I think, Derek, you were actually- So in Japan- ... telling me about this, weren't you? In Japan- Yeah, they were like, they devel- they've had some of the most [00:25:00] groundbreaking discoveries.
I forgot X amount of... It was a whole bun- it was a list I was reading. Like intellectual property. But they monetized- They, yeah ... almost none of them. All of them were transferred to the US or to Europe, where it was monetized as some product, but it was originally discovered in Japan, you know? Mm-hmm. All j- drug discoveries and, like, a lot of robotics stuff, and it was just interesting.
Like, I don't know where that disconnect is, you know? I mean, culturally too- So Japan- ... it might be safer, you know? Safer to take the money now for the intellectual property that's created now rather than- Taking a risk and, and trying to sell it yourself. I mean, this is me just guessing, but culturally they are a lot more, you know, critical of themselves, I even think, and, and safer in a lot of their investments.
Well, s- Japan just doesn't have the mentality that the Western world does- Right ... about making money and c- and crushing it. That's not how Japan is. It's more of a, the work for a large company, the large company will take care of you. And p- like I said, bigger is b- and better. They're not... It- [00:26:00] that's the problem, is that all these other Western thinking or Chinese or- Mm-hmm
or Asian thinking, they're out here to hustle to make money, and they're steamrolling. That's what happened in Niseko. At least a lot of locals feel that way. Now, they should understand that the only thing that is constant in life is change, and you need to d- be able to roll with the punches. But foreigners have come in here, like ourselves, we've been hated for many, many, many years by the Japanese local guide community because we grew f- we worked way harder, we grew faster, and we are everywhere, and we use social media, and they are just...
Like, there's a lot of localism in the, in the ski and snowboarding world, too, just like surfing- Yeah ... in every country, and it's not, it's, it definitely existent in Japan as well, too. Yeah, yeah ... what was my point about? So, uh, just- Yeah ... this, and it i- uh, it's, is it exploitation? It's a negative connotation. I don't understand where there's an opportunity to buy these places.
I question the longevity of those property, unless you're [00:27:00] buying somewhere in Niseko or Furano or wherever that is, where it's still going up, which still blows my mind because I don't understand why it's going up. I created something on Facebook called World-Class Niseko, just comparing us- Quick shout-out
World, World-Class Ni- Yeah, exa- Well. I'm just playing. Well, it's not, it's not for profit. It's not for profit. I want comments on there, and it's not for, what's the word? It, it's to look at ourselves and say, "Wow, are we truly world-class?" Everyone wants to say it's world-class here. It's not world-class. Mm-hmm.
It's still very local- Yeah ... and- No, that's cool ... the ski resorts don't necessarily get that yet. Yeah. I mean, I think to, like- And I do own a couple ... yeah, I think to a lot of your points, like, a lot of the things that people are doing are things that, like, me and Nick also think are really bad. So I think, I, you know, we don't live in Japan.
Bad operators exist. I, I understand that. It's true. And, like, but all your points about, you know, people coming in, flipping homes, something we would never do, something we don't wanna do. People, you know, in the countryside being left alone. Like, we stay with every client. We give them [00:28:00] Japanese... Like, our team are all bilingual.
A lot of them are native Japanese speakers. One of them's from Sapporo. So, like, we give them contacts that are local. Like, we go to the neighbor. So I know it's not perfect what we're doing, by any means, but we are definitely making an effort to do it, like, the right way. You know, like, a good example is that Airbnb law, they're just cracking down using some sort of AI tracking to, like, track the licensing number with Airbnb to make sure they're not going over the 180-day rule, make sure that whoever's, has fake licenses, et cetera.
Like, I think that's all awesome, and they should 100% do that 'cause me and Nick go through the painstaking process of getting these ryokan licenses for our clients, which is a pain, and it's, like, takes six months sometimes. So, like, we are happy to see them crack down on the people doing it wrong. And as much- Yeah
as we can build a community from abroad is what we are trying to do. It's not by any means perfect, but, like, we're trying to open a coffee shop, and we have a girl that is friends with the local town hall in Otaru, and our plan is to do some [00:29:00] sort of, like, monthly community events. Like, sh- I was asking her, you know.
In my town, trash pickups, like local community trash pickups is common. Obviously, in Japan you don't really need that, that there's not much trash on the ground. But I was like, "What is the town lacking that, like, we could have 50 people come to the coffee shop. We'll give them free coffee. We'll go out as a group and, like, do something."
And she was like, "Yeah, older people who can't shovel." So, like, our plan is to do a few of those events. Like, stuff that we can do from abroad is stuff we are trying to do as best as possible. Not saying it's perfect, but you know, we are trying to make an effort- Yeah ... is my point. I don't know how you, again, don't know how you got the, your coffee shop structured in business-wise, but you should definitely be looking into a visa thing.
Here's... I'll tell you a quick story here. 20 years ago, I, uh- I ra- I, I started the Black Diamond Lodge. I had a rental car company. I was still teaching English. I was a professor at the university. I was teaching English, and that was my status. I went to Immigration. I asked them, "Hey, what, what can I do here for, uh...
I wanna start a lodge here, and I'm not making any money. It's gonna co- take me [00:30:00] years in order to make money from the place. Is this visa okay?" They said, "Yeah, sure. It's, uh, it's, it's fine as long as you're not making a profit." And, which I wasn't. I got stopped by the cops one time, and they, I didn't have...
They were questioning what I was doing, and long story short, they're like, "Well, you got the wrong visa to be, to, to running a rental car business." I'm like, "Well, I don't make any money off that." Mm-hmm. It's not- Mm-hmm. That's not... I make zero dollars off of it. They surveilled me for three months. Mm-hmm. And 17 cops came in and raided my property, okay?
Yeah. I was fingerprinted and mugshotted and never charged in the end, 'cause I didn't have a lawyer back then. Here's something you guys th- tell everybody. They should have a lawyer, all right? Yeah, we have lawyers. Yeah, we do have a lawyer. Yeah. They do get in trouble. I, I think the difference, the difference is, like, we have no plan.
We're not gonna work in our coffee shop at all. We're gonna give ownership to a local person to run it. That's our plan. So yeah, so- Look into that and, and- ... we're not working in Japan Yeah, everybody should look into that too We have a lawyer, by the way. Yeah, yeah. Okay, good, good. Yeah, we're, we're trying to do it Yeah.
Okay, let's get, let's get back on track, though. I appreciate, I appreciate the story. I appreciate the shout-out, definitely. I [00:31:00] mean, we can get close to wrapping this up. We are kind of running low on time, but I, I kind of, I kind of want to talk about, like, end of the day, since 1968, that's the first year the population was surveyed, there have been...
There, this year, there was 687,000 people born in Japan, which is the lowest count since they started tracking in 1968. 1.6 million deaths, more than double. That's the highest ever since 1968, since they've been counting. There's 9 million vacant homes. It's not really, like, an opinion, I feel like. It's just math.
Like, a shrinking, aging population can't fill these houses, and even worse, they can't fund the pensions of a generation that's outnumbering the number of workers paying into it. So, what do you think is better- So what- ... for us to be doing? I mean, we're, we're literally taking every step we possibly can to make sure the foreign investment that is happening is happening in the right way.
We are integrating with the culture. We are trying to help these towns, and we're not in towns like Tokyo, you know. We're in [00:32:00] some of these rural areas. What are you, what are your thoughts? Well, what's the population of California? Millions. You know? I think, like, 50 or 60 million. I think, I think Japan's the same size of California, but they got 125 million people.
I think the population, we need to, Japan needs to figure out a way to work with less people, because just bringing in foreigners coming in and living in those places doesn't necessarily solve the big problem. Mm. The big problem is that the, you know, there's bigger problems than that. What I fear is that, this is what I think.
This is what I think. Every single house that gets sold to a foreigner who doesn't live here, they should have two hoshonins, guarantors, and that doesn't happen. In everything else, if you want to get a loan in Japan, you need to have a hoshonin, a guarantor. Mm. So that if you default on your loan, they pay for it.
Right. Everybody buying a property here should have a hoshonin who actually resides, lives in Japan and has residency. That's one way to solve the problem. It's not gonna happen tomorrow. I'm, I am thinking about running for prime minister. I don't think I'll, I'll, I'll get it, but- But I guess my [00:33:00] question before you go onto that is, like, if they did that, obviously it would be harder for them to buy homes, and, like- That may be w- yeah, but that, and obviously that may be what you want, but my question is, to me that seems worse because these homes just would fall into disrepair and there's less tax.
Yeah. Like, they're paying less tax. They're, the people are coming here less. They're shopping at stores less. Isn't, like, and what I feel like, again, I could... This is just my opinion, is that this home is not taking away from a Japanese person. It's only getting renovated, paying renovators, paying local stores, paying taxes, like all those things.
Aren't those all positive things, you know? Yes. They are positive things, for sure. But then it also creates other p- other dis- I mean, not, all I get inundated with right now is how many foreign- over tourism and foreigners, foreigners, foreigners, foreigners. And whether or not it's true or not- Yeah ... it still needs to be understood.
I just think- Yeah ... it's not just you guys, right? There's a- Like, like the sentiment ... whole bunch of people. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of people saying, "Look it, I figured out how to look for cheap places," [00:34:00] and there have been cheap places for, in Japan since, and there will be for, since, until we die, and since you were born.
It's I, in fact, I bought my first place in Sapporo 25 years ago. I didn't wanna rent. So this is a good story for you guys. Uh, it was co- it was gonna cost me 6,000 bucks or 600,000 yen to re- to rent a house and move into a house, and I'm like, "Well, how much could a house be in Japan? It's gotta be expensive."
And I found a place for 50,000, fu- 5 million yen, and I'm like, "This has gotta be in the middle of nowhere." I, I went and looked at it, and it was actually in really bad condition. For a, for a Japanese house, it was disgusting. It was filthy, but I could see the potential. I'm like, "Wait a second. Why is it so cheap?"
And they're like, "Oh, 'cause it's not by a train station." This is true. This is true what you guys are saying. Ru- Japanese see rural properties as a losing, a losing proposition from the beginning. If you're not right next to a train station, it's not good. Mm. They don't even care about the view so much. They care about being close to a train station.
I'm like, "I can ski to my door in Sapporo. I got [00:35:00] south-facing views, 50,000, 5 million yen. This is insane." Yeah. Bought it, lived in it for a number of years, rented it out for a number of years. Now, I moved to Niseko. I put it up for sale, but I still haven't sold it. And you know what? I can't even sell it for 3 million yen right now if I, if I wanted to.
But it, for me, it's all about finding the right person to buy the property- Right ... because I became good friends with all my neighbors there. Mm-hmm. And I don't wanna sell it to Gary Gaijin who's gonna- Yeah ... be causing trouble 'cause I love those guys. That's my- A lot of sellers have the same sentiment ... my neighborhood.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's my neighborhood. I mean, totally agree with you, too. There is a lot of bad operators, but again, like, a house sitting empty for 20 years, roof caving in, to me, is not preserving Japanese culture. It's literally the physical decay of it. I, I, I personally feel like a restored home with someone living in it, be it a renter or a local, paying local taxes, shopping at local stores, like, that is the preservation that we are working towards.
And again, I get it. You're inundated with [00:36:00] culture shock, foreigners getting crazy, but as, as the bottom fifth country of foreign investment, like, it, it just doesn't add up and- To your point with the tax, the not tax POC also, but guarantor. So they did, they started, I guess it was 2024 or something, they made a law where all foreigners had to have a local tax POC, but they never enforced it.
Mm-hmm. But, uh, now- April ... it's fully enforced, so, like, we, our scrivener will not even sign the house away until they have a local tax POC. Mm-hmm. So we have, like, a on-the-ground tax POC that represents all our clients. So, like, to, to what you're asking is sort of happening in a way. Like, you, you have to have a local Japanese tax POC to get the house.
Yeah, and they're actually enforcing it now as of April 2026. Yeah. So there are definitely things happening, and, and I think a lot of your points make a ton of sense. Like, we don't want people- I've thought about this- ... moving to Japan Yeah, I want, I want people moving to Japan, living here, embracing culture, and making it all better, and showing Japanese people that foreigners aren't that, they're not all that bad.
Right. [00:37:00] They can be- Yeah ... positive to the community. But here's two things. Number one, moving, or sorry, when you increase the amount of available Airbnbs going on there, you are taking away from other accommodation providers that would have otherwise had those bookings. Now it's going to that Jap- that foreign person who's getting that money.
Yeah, they're paying tax here. They are. They're creating some business for the community. You wanna know, b- every town should say, "Do you want this? Do you not want this?" J- Japan is the king of realizing after the fact what, how they screwed up- Mm-hmm ... and trying to put a Band-Aid on it afterwards, and that's exactly what's happening in this whole industry right now.
So that is what happens when you have all these Airbnbs. You're taking away from other hotels, and the hotels are the ones I think really pushing against the Airbnb- Mm-hmm ... going on here, just like the- Right ... taxi drivers were at one point. Yeah. Resistance to change. Another idea- Did, did you see that?
They're, they gave towns the ability to completely ban- [00:38:00] Which me, for me and Nick too, like- I think it's more of the Tokyo region ... yeah, like I, I wouldn't even care, like most of our clients I don't think would care at all if they did that. Like, none of them are like wearing ro- Like we explain to them, "Your, your house is gonna be worth less.
You're not gonna make a ton of money." Uh-huh. It's j- it's like we give them the whole spiel. Yeah. And most of them just love Japan, and it's like, okay, like I'd rather someone... Most of them don't even do it to make money. They're like, "I'd rather someone be in my house-" Right ... "than it be empty for eight months."
That's like most of their logic behind it. They're not like there to get rich on it by any means. Sure. And like we tell them that. Well- So I don't e- ... th- there's a lot of people in Niseko who did do that. Yeah, I'm sure. Who are still here doing that. Yeah, yeah. Greaseballs, and they, they're not here for the lifestyle, which is exactly why I moved here.
For the lifestyle. That, and that's every ski town. They're, the greaseball developers are- Yeah. You're right ... just here to flip, flip and, and dip. Here's a business idea for you guys that maybe you could consider- Yeah. We've, we've got about- 'Cause I think about this a lot ... three to five minutes left, so hit us with the business idea.
Okay. Imagine, if you will, [00:39:00] you guys p- your company purchases a bunch of akiyas and you sell shares in a group of akiyas. Now your guys get usage of those akiyas. They, that you do the renovations, et cetera, et cetera. This is actually happening the opposite way for Japanese investing in Texas is where I thought about the idea, and my bank guy's like, "You should buy a place T-," I don't, I can't afford a place in Texas, but that's what a lot of rich people are doing in Japan.
Is it like the semiconductor thing in Texas? Is that why they're investing there? No, it's because of how the tax laws are there, and with an older 25-year-old house, et cetera. There's a bunch of different things. But why not buy a bunch of things and people own a share in a group of houses, and that way, uh, I think there's strength in number in terms of like then you can vote on management and, and the property managers are constantly looking out for new contractors.
And again, it's like a, a condo association, but it's houses. Mm-hmm. And that's, uh, something to consider. I think [00:40:00] that's gonna happen. Actually, I think that's gonna happen with some Japanese investors. They're gonna start buying up places and saying, "Why don't you buy shares in these kinds of things?" Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. And then it, then it does create a place where Japanese people can call and com- Ask questions, hopefully not complain, but ask questions about what's going on here or- Yeah ... again, I- I mean, I get it, yeah ... I've been here 30 years and I still don't get gar- sorting garbage 100% right. Yeah, it's tough. And people shit on me about that.
Yeah. It's tough. I don't blame you. I, I'm glad we got to talk, though. And I mean, Derek, if you wanna, do you wanna s- finish us out or... I just wanna make sure- I was just gonna say- ... we met ... that was a great chat. Yeah. And, and like- I wanted to make sure we met and didn't get lumped in to the, like, pay and disappear operators, because we have- Yeah
a problem with that, too. So I appreciate, I appreciate you calling it out. Yeah, and I just wanted to say I, like, thanks for calling and it was a great chat. And I used your guiding company and it was awesome. I forgot our guide's name. He was the man. He had ver- older dude, super long hair. Older dude, super long hair.
Yeah. He's... Ah, I [00:41:00] forgot his na- We went to... It was like- Tony. Tony, yeah. It was Tony. Tony. Yeah, yeah. Okay, all right. Yeah. It was awesome. So yeah, I mean- Nice. Good ... tha- thanks for, thanks for coming on. Yeah, dude. Older dude. Really appreciate it. Okay, I think he's younger than me. Yeah, okay. Well- Well, you... Don't tell him I- Yeah
don't tell him I said this, but you look way- Yeah ... younger than him. Okay. Anyway, no, it was good to meet you guys. I don't... Like I said, people always hate on people who are, do things that they sh- There's a bit of jealousy involved in that stuff, too. I just wanna see the right thing happening for Japan, and I think everyone who...
I've had so many comments when I made this thing about Akiha, Japan, and all these places. I've had so many direct messages, more than any other backcountry post I put up, about people like, "This is bullshit. These guys, these guys, this and that." And I don't know, I'm only hearing one side, so I, you know, you can't- Well, yeah.
B- before we logged on you were saying your theory to, to why you think... We were about to talk about, like, why- Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think- ... we get so much hate. I'm, I'm curious ... there's, there's, there's jealousy of people doing things that you wish you would've done or, or that you did, you weren't able to do [00:42:00] yourself.
And it's stupid. I don't know why that is. I, it's a really terrible thing. These people should be, like, supporting- It's not world class ... people who are doing the right thing. It's not world class. It's not world class. Keep it world class. Anyway... Yeah