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Ministry Wives & Women is a podcast for ministry wives and women seeking encouragement, spiritual depth, and honest conversation for the journey of faith. everyday life, and the challenges of church leadership. Hosted by Andrea Griffith, each episode offers thoughtful wisdom, real stories, and gospel-centered hope to help women live with greater resilience, authenticity, and grace in every season.
[00:00] [Speaker A] Resiliency are those like really hard moments in the midst of the bigger hard thing.
[00:05] [Speaker B] Yes.
[00:05] [Speaker A] Where we're like, okay, we're gonna have to get back up. Like, we're gonna have to continue to trust the Lord.
[00:11] [Speaker B] Welcome to the Ministry Wives and Women Podcast. This is a place where we openly address the challenging realities of ministry and point one another to Jesus and the gospel. Whether you're thriving, barely holding on, or somewhere in between, you are not alone. I'm Andrea Griffith, and each episode brings honest conversations, biblical encouragement, encouragement, and stories from women who understand this calling. This podcast is part of The Church Hub, where we're committed to strengthening ministry leaders and the families who walk with them. We're so glad you're here. Welcome back to The Church Hub. I'm Andrea Griffith, and I'll be your host today. We have again with us Angela Davis, a good friend of mine and a colleague who speaks with FamilyLife. Angela is a counselor. With a master's from RTS. She's a mom of 4 and the wife of Jim Davis, who's the pastor at Orlando Grace Church. So, welcome back, Angela.
[01:15] [Speaker A] Thanks, Andrea. It's great to be here.
[01:16] [Speaker B] We're so happy to have you. So, our last conversation, we were going deep. We were moving through what resilience looked like. And I started this podcast talking about resilience because I'm telling you, I need it so desperately.
[01:33] [Speaker A] And I've seen that—
[01:35] [Speaker B] I don't stay resilient. It's like up and down for me.
[01:41] [Speaker A] Yes.
[01:42] [Speaker B] And so, I was like, "How do we do this?" And I'm learning, even as I've been doing this podcast, that it— resilience isn't a goal. There are building blocks that enable us to be resilient. And do I have those building blocks in place? And we talked about last time, the building block of community, of just how important that is. We probably can't say that enough. We talked about the building block of just being in the Word, and hearing from the Lord every day. We talked about having friends, or somebody, maybe a counselor even, that can help us see our false narrative, and maybe how we need to— Mm-hmm. To question that a little bit and what the truth might be. So even as we continue to talk about resilience, as a counselor, and even drawing on personal experience, 'cause I'm sure you deal with this too, I've just wondered what misconceptions do people have about resilience? What do we think that it's supposed to look like, and where does that really come from in our minds? Mm-hmm.
[02:57] [Speaker A] Yeah, well, I think probably the biggest problem is we don't think about resilience that much, right? So we just react when hard things come our way. Again, these are probably these default patterns we've had for a long time. But I know a lot of people, the way they're gonna react in a really hard situation is we're gonna stuff it all down. So these emotions are not to be trusted, and we just push it down. Instead, what we really need to be doing, emotions are there for a reason. And we need to be asking ourselves, "Why am I feeling this way? Where is this coming from? I need to pay attention." So, it's not about stuffing. We need to be paying attention to it.
[03:35] [Speaker B] That's so good. Instead of— so, when an emotion comes up, I need to just stop and say, not judge it, just notice, "I'm feeling fill in the blank. Why am I feeling that way?" And then, I'm able to start getting a little bit deeper to see, "Oh, well, of course, I'm feeling that way." Yeah. Or, "Oh, I don't want to feel that way. Maybe that feeling's not based on truth." Right. "So, maybe I can pivot." So, that's a great one. We don't do that very often, I don't think. I think the pesky emotions come up and we're like, "I don't have time to deal with that right now." Yes. "I have children waiting on me. I have work waiting on me," whatever it is.
[04:18] [Speaker A] Yes, we don't have time for ourselves so often.
[04:22] [Speaker B] That's correct. Right, don't have time for this. So we stuff it. What's another misconception?
[04:27] [Speaker A] I think the misconception that we've got it. Like we can do this on our own.
[04:31] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[04:32] [Speaker A] And that, again, those insecure, just kind of attachment of, "I'm gonna keep people at arm's length because I don't know if I trust them, or if they know this about me, will they still wanna be my friend, or will they think I'm weak?" And so we just, We think, "I've got this. I'll just take care of this," when we really need community. We're missing the biggest piece of what's gonna help us. I mean, one of the biggest pieces, obviously, the Holy Spirit and God are gonna help us be resilient, but we need community.
[05:01] [Speaker B] Yes, we do.
[05:02] [Speaker A] So, can't do it on our own.
[05:03] [Speaker B] I know even as I was driving here today, I was talking to a friend and I was mentioning something that my sister is going through. And I was really frustrated for my sister, like I'm taking up the offense for my sister. And my friend just wisely started talking about things that she had done, I hadn't thought of any of them. And I'm listening to her and I'm like, "That was so wise. I would've never thought of that on my own." But for her, it was simple, which goes back to your point. We need each other. We need community.
[05:37] [Speaker A] We do.
[05:37] [Speaker B] Yeah. So, we stuff it.
[05:40] [Speaker A] Yep.
[05:40] [Speaker B] We isolate. Yeah, what else?
[05:43] [Speaker A] Well, this one's a little bit with stuffing, but we distract ourselves by just not thinking about it. Again, like you said, we might have, you know, a job, or kids, multiple ways that we just don't think about it, instead of being really curious, checking in, asking ourself the hard question. Like, okay, so just even personally, I woke up this morning and my first thought was, "I'm gonna go on Andrea's podcast today." My initial feeling is fear.
[06:09] [Speaker B] Yes.
[06:10] [Speaker A] And I was laying there thinking, "I feel fear," when I think normally, I would have just jumped up, my default is to jump up, get my coffee, let's just go think about what we're gonna say. And instead, I laid there for a moment. I was like, "I'm afraid. Why am I afraid?" Yeah. What is, how is this connected to maybe part of my story? Like, where are there places where I've been afraid to show up and be honest because I'm afraid people won't like what I say or they might judge me? You know, so I'm just, I'm curious about what's going on. Instead of just going, "Oh, it's time to get my coffee, check the news, think about what I'm gonna say." And that's so good.
[06:48] [Speaker B] So, I host Center Groups.
[06:50] [Speaker A] Okay.
[06:51] [Speaker B] And the very first thing we do in Center Groups is we pull out a feeling wheel.
[06:55] [Speaker A] Yes!
[06:56] [Speaker B] And we say, we name what we're feeling. And so many times, they're opposing emotions. Like, normally, I throw out 3, and usually 2 of them, are opposing.
[07:09] [Speaker A] Yes.
[07:09] [Speaker B] You know, "I'm excited you're here, and I'm nervous." Yes. You know, I'll have— I'm holding both of those at the same time. But what I've learned and noticed is just by naming them, I'm able to then move out of them.
[07:23] [Speaker A] Yes.
[07:24] [Speaker B] Just by naming it. And I'm like, "Oh, if I hadn't have taken the time to notice, I couldn't make the necessary adjustments in my mind, in my heart, so I can move in the direction I would like to move." to go.
[07:38] [Speaker A] Right.
[07:38] [Speaker B] And that doesn't take that long.
[07:39] [Speaker A] No.
[07:40] [Speaker B] To just notice.
[07:41] [Speaker A] That's right.
[07:42] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[07:42] [Speaker A] It's just being curious about yourself.
[07:43] [Speaker B] Yeah, yeah, that's really good.
[07:45] [Speaker A] Instead of distracted.
[07:46] [Speaker B] So what other misconceptions do we have about resilience? I loved what you said at the very beginning too, is we're not even thinking about resilience. We need it, yet we're not thinking about it.
[07:57] [Speaker A] Yes.
[07:57] [Speaker B] But what other—
[07:58] [Speaker A] It's kinda that lack of curiosity in general, you know?
[08:00] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[08:01] [Speaker A] And checking in with ourselves. Well, I think kind of a final one would just be, hey, and I mentioned a little bit before, but just this thought of, "I can control this." Mm, that's a big one. "I'm gonna fix this myself." And not just that I don't think about the need for community, but I'm not asking God what he's up to in the midst of this, because I think my plan needs to happen, and I'm just gonna double down on it.
[08:25] [Speaker B] Yes.
[08:26] [Speaker A] Instead of being curious, like, "Okay, God, what's happening here?" That's so good.
[08:31] [Speaker B] I remember in your story, in the last podcast we did, you mentioned, you know, all these people were leaving your church.
[08:38] [Speaker A] Yeah.
[08:39] [Speaker B] And eventually, you started asking the question, "Okay, God, what are you wanting to do in me?" Yeah. "And what are you wanting to do in my husband, as we're going through what you are allowing to happen?" Is that a little bit of what you mean?
[08:55] [Speaker A] Mm-hmm, exactly. Yeah, being curious about the bigger story, not just what's happening in my little life, in my mind, in my heart. It's important, but there's a lot more going on that God's up to.
[09:08] [Speaker B] So good. I love John Piper's quote that, "God is up to 10,000 things at once, and we only see maybe 3." Yes, yes. Yeah, and so, you're watching the exodus of your church, and yet God's like, "But I got you because I'm doing something deeper. I'm doing something in you, and I'm doing something in those people that you don't even know." Yeah. Yeah, I think one of my misconceptions about resilience, and you can speak into this, I have no idea why, and if you look at me now, you would never think this, but I grew up being the tough girl. Like, when we had horses growing up, and when my sister— my sister was the show person of the horses. And when my sister would get thrown off, I was the one who would get back on and ride it.
[09:55] [Speaker A] Okay.
[09:55] [Speaker B] I was the tomboy, climbing the trees, like all the things. And I don't know why, but I really moved that over in my relationship with God. Like, even thinking, I can be tough, and I can be tough in situations. I don't need God's love. I can't believe I used to think that.
[10:16] [Speaker A] Yeah.
[10:17] [Speaker B] But I would think, "I can pull myself up by my bootstraps, and I'll be tough." I remember even at a lock-in, when I was probably— I was probably still in elementary school. I was— we were on a— in a gym, on a slick gym floor, and I was standing on my sleeping bag. Okay. And a boy came up behind me and he ripped the sleeping bag out from under my feet.
[10:44] [Speaker A] Oh, my goodness.
[10:44] [Speaker B] And I literally, you know, upended. My feet are up in the air. I land hard on that gym floor.
[10:51] [Speaker A] Yeah.
[10:51] [Speaker B] You know, and all my friends are like aghast. They're, you know, they're, "Oh, what just happened?" And I just pick myself up. "I'm fine. I'm fine." And I remember thinking, "Andrea, how much do you still do that today?" Yeah. You know?
[11:06] [Speaker A] Like the kind of a fear of being weak.
[11:08] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[11:09] [Speaker A] Showing that weakness to others, a vulnerability there.
[11:12] [Speaker B] And yet, it's through the vulnerability that I'm healed.
[11:16] [Speaker A] Yeah.
[11:17] [Speaker B] That I—
[11:18] [Speaker A] Yeah.
[11:18] [Speaker B] That I can move forward. It's just this false narrative that I'll be resilient by being tough.
[11:25] [Speaker A] Right.
[11:25] [Speaker B] And by denying that I'm feeling what I'm really feeling.
[11:29] [Speaker A] And then, when we go back to that attachment, like needing to be seen and soothed and safe and secure. Like, how much are people able to even really see you and know you?
[11:38] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[11:39] [Speaker A] Because you've got this false front out there, like, "I'm strong, I'm tough." Yeah.
[11:45] [Speaker B] And so, people just keep piling things on you.
[11:47] [Speaker A] Yeah.
[11:47] [Speaker B] 'Cause you're telling 'em.
[11:49] [Speaker A] Yeah, that's right.
[11:49] [Speaker B] "I'm strong and tough." And inside you're crumbling because you're not.
[11:53] [Speaker A] You don't feel seen.
[11:54] [Speaker B] No, at all. Yeah. So, that was a real— that's one I've had to keep dealing with, with resiliency of just, I don't want that identity. Like, that's just not something that I feel like is helpful. But it, for some reason, has been a default one.
[12:11] [Speaker A] Yes. And how much does that help you be resilient, just to even know what your default is, and how to move out of it?
[12:19] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[12:19] [Speaker A] It's hugely helpful.
[12:20] [Speaker B] Yeah, and I don't want to stay there. I have enough misconceptions as it is.
[12:26] [Speaker A] I know.
[12:26] [Speaker B] Yeah. So, for you, as We talked about you're a counselor, you're a pastor's wife, you're a mom of 4. I know you keep a busy schedule. Even when we try to get together for lunch, it's really hard to make it happen. So, how do you, first of all, define resilience, both through a psychological lens, as a counselor, but also through a spiritual lens? Yes. And then as you define those, and as you live your life with trying to be resilient, where do they overlap?
[13:03] [Speaker A] Okay. Okay, well, so I looked this up. I'm just gonna have to be honest. I'm like, "Yeah, what does the counseling profession say about resiliency?" You know? I mean, I know my thoughts, but I wanted to know what they would say. And so, the APA, or the American Psychological Association, really says it's the process and the outcome of successfully adapting to difficult or challenging life circumstances.
[13:24] [Speaker B] Okay. Sounds good. Yeah.
[13:27] [Speaker A] I think probably where we differ, you know, with a spiritual lens is what does it mean to successfully adapt?
[13:34] [Speaker B] Hmm.
[13:34] [Speaker A] And I started to think about that from a therapeutic standpoint. Of course, we're gonna do a lot of good work in the counseling room. We're gonna talk about, you know, what are some good coping strategy— strategies versus the bad ones?
[13:47] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[13:47] [Speaker A] How do we emotionally regulate? How do we challenge these false narratives and build positive and true ones?
[13:55] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[13:55] [Speaker A] There's a lot of great things that we're gonna do from a psychological from a medical standpoint. But all those successful adaptations, that's the focus.
[14:05] [Speaker B] Okay.
[14:05] [Speaker A] And I think from a spiritual lens, we're like, "But there's more." Oh, there's so much more. There's so much more than that. And really, this summer, I've been reading this book by Curt Thompson. So, it's called, "The Deepest Place." He is a psychiatrist. He's world-renowned, and he's a believer.
[14:24] [Speaker B] Okay.
[14:25] [Speaker A] And the title of his book, "The Deepest Place: Suffering and the Formation of Hope." And really, I mean, I'm not in a place of suffering so much right now. Now, I've been in that place many times, but I'm holding out hope for people daily.
[14:38] [Speaker B] Right.
[14:39] [Speaker A] And I was wanting to understand what he had to say about this. And he really bases it on Romans 5:3-5. "We know that suffering produces perseverance, and perseverance, character, and character, hope." And he would say perseverance is really that bridge from suffering to hope. It's necessary. We have to have it. We can't get from one to the other without it. And so the way he kind of talks about resiliency, and the way I've understood it from a counseling standpoint, is say perseverance is gonna be the long process, maybe over months, over years, of working through a really hard thing, that constant movement forward, pushing into the face of difficult circumstances.
[15:23] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[15:23] [Speaker A] And resilience resiliency is when, in the midst of that, we get knocked down, or something really terrible happens in the midst of the already hard thing.
[15:32] [Speaker B] Right.
[15:33] [Speaker A] Resiliency is the ability to keep— to get back up and continue persevering.
[15:37] [Speaker B] Mm, so good.
[15:38] [Speaker A] And so, you know, we're gonna successfully adapt, yes, but there's more, because we're thinking about, "Where am I going? How am I going to get the hope that it's producing? And what's happening inside of me in this moment? I'm changing, and how?" Yes.
[15:56] [Speaker B] Yeah, God is transforming me through the circumstances, through the suffering that he's allowing in my life. And he's pressing me in to know him. And he is the God of all hope.
[16:10] [Speaker A] Yes, yes.
[16:11] [Speaker B] Where does hope come from? It all originates with God. He is the God of all hope and endurance. And so he's allowing this circumstance to create perseverance in me. And all along the way, I'm gonna get knocked down, so I'm gonna need that resiliency as I'm persevering. I love how you said it could be months, it could be years. There are things that we're praying for right now that we're waiting on God to do. And we're suffering while we're waiting. And so how do we persevere in those day-to-day, moment-by-moment choices, and then have the resiliency in the moments that we get knocked down hard.
[16:56] [Speaker A] Yes.
[16:56] [Speaker B] I remember you talking a little bit about your house.
[16:59] [Speaker A] Oh, yeah.
[17:00] [Speaker B] And a time that you had to be very resilient with that. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
[17:05] [Speaker A] Yeah, and honestly, this is kind of in the same season as the mass exodus from our church. So, let's just say, it was an intense season of suffering.
[17:13] [Speaker B] There are layers. They come in layers.
[17:15] [Speaker A] Multiple layers. We've gotta be the only people in America who sold a house, and got sued for how the house was built, and we didn't build the house. Like, we just lived in it for 4 years.
[17:28] [Speaker B] Okay.
[17:29] [Speaker A] At some point, and we sold it.
[17:31] [Speaker B] Wow.
[17:31] [Speaker A] But we got sued for how it was built incorrectly.
[17:34] [Speaker B] Wow.
[17:35] [Speaker A] So, there is so much in this moment of anger, frustration, bitterness, like, "How is this even possible? This feels just beyond my comprehension. Doesn't make sense." Yeah. And of course, my default, went into a really bad place. I'm like, "I can't be curious about what God's up to right now, because I'm just— this is insane." Right. Took me a while. So, the perseverance took a little bit.
[18:03] [Speaker B] Yeah, you're like, "The only category I have right now is 'this is insane.'" Yes. "It does not make sense." Yes. "I can't move to the next category of being curious." Yes. Yeah.
[18:12] [Speaker A] So, this process went on for about 2 years. So, let's say in that 2-year process, this is the persevering. Of day in and day out, we are facing this hard thing and moving forward in the suffering.
[18:23] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[18:24] [Speaker A] The resiliency is the point where we get served papers. Like, I can still remember being outside with my kids in the front yard, and I got served papers. That blew me away, 'cause we didn't know this was happening.
[18:36] [Speaker B] Oh, wow.
[18:36] [Speaker A] And I'm thinking, "This is bizarre." Then it continues on, we go to trial. We have to fly back and go to trial, I'm thinking, How is this still happening? Resiliency are those like really hard moments in the midst of the bigger hard thing.
[18:50] [Speaker B] Yes.
[18:50] [Speaker A] Where we're like, "Okay, we're gonna have to get back up. Like, we're gonna have to continue to trust the Lord. We're gonna have to, again, be curious about what God is doing in this moment." I've gotta remember that in suffering, I'm also learning about how Jesus went through suffering. Like, I'm identifying with what he endured for me, and how he knows me so well, Did he go through something that seemed insane? Yes. You know, he gets it. Has he been falsely accused? Yes. I mean, I'm identifying with Christ and his sufferings. And so the resiliency is getting back up in the moment to continue to persevere over the long haul.
[19:29] [Speaker B] Yeah, that's so good. And I love how you brought in identifying with Jesus. That's one of my favorite things, because there's nothing that you are gonna go through, or I'm gonna go through, that Jesus hasn't already experienced. Yes. And lived victoriously in. I'm not always gonna live victoriously. I'm going to do the default.
[19:53] [Speaker A] Yes.
[19:54] [Speaker B] And then learning, "Okay, this is my default. Yes, I just went back into it again. But I have an advocate who also was tempted, and he never went into his default, ever." Mm-hmm, I know. So, when I'm tempted, off here isolating, or whatever I'm doing.
[20:15] [Speaker A] Right.
[20:15] [Speaker B] And then, I can recognize it and say, "But God, you're still there. You're with me while I'm way over here." Psalm 139.
[20:25] [Speaker A] Yes.
[20:25] [Speaker B] "Where can I flee from your presence? There's nowhere." So, if I'm over here isolating, you're still with me, God. You're still here.
[20:32] [Speaker A] Yes.
[20:33] [Speaker B] And you were faced with this temptation, and you did it victoriously. And I am in you.
[20:40] [Speaker A] Yes.
[20:40] [Speaker B] And so, God, would you help me grab onto that in my identity, so I can move out of whatever default I'm doing, back to a healthy place, so I can continue to persevere?
[20:52] [Speaker A] Yes.
[20:53] [Speaker B] So, we've talked a little bit about this, and I think this is just one of your heart loves. But what role do community and belonging Feeling like you belong, feeling like you're seen, play in resilience, and particularly within faith communities, within our churches.
[21:17] [Speaker A] Well, I mean, again, we need to be in community for that, for those attachment purposes, first and foremost. Like, we need people who help us feel seen, who emotionally, like, are there for us, who are gonna make us feel safe and secure. And those people showing up day in and day out, that creates trust, that creates hope, that creates the ability to keep moving forward. I think Thompson says this, like, one of the worst things we can do in suffering is isolate.
[21:47] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[21:47] [Speaker A] Because then we just sit with that false narrative, and we will end up in a pretty bad place, usually depressed or bitter. We have to have community, speaking truth, asking the hard questions, empathizing, being the support. Sometimes I just need my friends to hold out hope when I can't.
[22:05] [Speaker B] Yes.
[22:06] [Speaker A] You know, and that's why they're so important.
[22:08] [Speaker B] Yeah, even this week, I got a text, like, we know we need community, especially as pastor's wives. Like, we're the ones saying, "Get in a small group, come join women's Bible study." Like, we're constantly holding out the invitation for people to come be in community. But I got a text this week from a pastor's wife, and I was inviting her to a group. And she said, "I would love to join your group." "but I need to know if any of my church members will be attending. I have ministry PTSD." Yeah, it's very real. The way she phrased it. And as I got the text, I just said, "I get it. I get it, friend." And so, just finding that safe place. We know there's healing in groups.
[22:59] [Speaker A] Yes.
[22:59] [Speaker B] But to find the group, I think, is the key.
[23:03] [Speaker A] Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think friendships take time.
[23:08] [Speaker B] Yes.
[23:08] [Speaker A] Now, after all these moves, I have kind of calculated it takes about 3 years to start to really feel like you have good friends. To me, it takes about 6 or 7 to feel like you form a group.
[23:19] [Speaker B] That's so good.
[23:21] [Speaker A] But you know what filled the gap for me when I moved to Orlando was Parakaleo.
[23:24] [Speaker B] Yes.
[23:25] [Speaker A] It was a group for pastors' wives. So immediately, I'm thrown into this group. I don't even know them. They got me. They knew my experience. And so there are, even when we're new to a place, and we're like, "Well, I guess I just gotta stick it out 3 years to find the friends." No, there are groups like Parakaleo. Call up another pastor's wife in town, where we can start to build those groups or join them. They're already happening.
[23:52] [Speaker B] Yeah, that's so good. Parakaleo has been the same for me. And it's it has done for me everything we've been talking about. It's taught me to see my heart, see my emotions. It's gotten me in a group of like-minded women who see me and get me. And so, now, I'm leading— I call them center groups, but we do the Pere Kaleo legacy material. And I have one in my home.
[24:20] [Speaker A] Oh, that's great.
[24:21] [Speaker B] I love it. And I also have one that I'm leading online. And When I first started, you know, it costs money to be a part of this. And Trent was like, "Andrea, I will pay. Every dime is so worth it." Because I was such a changed woman every time I'd come back.
[24:39] [Speaker A] So true.
[24:40] [Speaker B] Yeah, yeah, it's good for me to hear that you've had that same experience.
[24:44] [Speaker A] Yes, it was so good.
[24:46] [Speaker B] Yeah, so as a counselor, or even just as a pastor's wife, we deal with hard all the time. I read once that pastors' wives have typically heard something very disappointing every day. Whether that is someone who's just passed away, or it's a staff member who's upset at our husbands, or a marriage that just failed in our church. I mean, there's— they're really hard things. Mm-hmm.
[25:17] [Speaker A] Yeah.
[25:18] [Speaker B] So how do you help people navigate seasons when their faith feels shaken or uncertain? Like, how do you help people have the perseverance and the resiliency we've been talking about?
[25:30] [Speaker A] Yeah, not necessarily in a counseling room, but in church.
[25:33] [Speaker B] Either one. In the church setting. Yeah, either one. You're very versatile.
[25:37] [Speaker A] Well, so I might just speak to this personally. I have to remind myself that God is writing this story.
[25:46] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[25:46] [Speaker A] I feel like that's probably the drumbeat, you know, in my brain or my heart that I think is— it comes through my mind numerous times a day. Anytime, like, I'm disappointed, or I'm confused, or I'm frustrated, it's like this flashbulb in my brain, "God is writing this story." Mm, so good. And I try to offer that to other people too, especially in the church.
[26:11] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[26:11] [Speaker A] Not all of my— Most of my clients are believers, so we don't often get there because it's more about what's going on inside of them, not necessarily my opinion. But I try to remind people in the church and myself, "Okay, God is writing this story and it's good." Yes. Even if in this moment, it feels like we're in what the Bible is gonna call the valley, or the wilderness, the desert. There are many places that the Bible calls it different descriptions.
[26:39] [Speaker B] Yeah.
[26:40] [Speaker A] Even in those moments, he's writing a good story. And can I be curious about what he could be doing instead of being bitter that I'm in it?
[26:49] [Speaker B] That's so good. Yeah, so God is writing the story, and we know he's faithful.
[26:54] [Speaker A] Yes.
[26:55] [Speaker B] We know he's trustworthy.
[26:56] [Speaker A] Yes.
[26:57] [Speaker B] We know he's the best author. Like, if I had written my own story, I've tried that. It has not gone well. You know, I don't really want to be holding the pen. I'd rather— him hold the pen. Yeah, I think for me, along that same lines, knowing the names of God, like, what do I need right now? So, our youngest daughter is getting married next week.
[27:24] [Speaker A] Oh, that's amazing!
[27:26] [Speaker B] Yeah, we're super excited.
[27:26] [Speaker A] Wow, I didn't realize it was so soon.
[27:28] [Speaker B] Yes, it's next week. And so, in that, we were flying up there for the wedding, The day we get back, we're moving into our new house. We've been living in a borrowed condo.
[27:39] [Speaker A] So—
[27:40] [Speaker B] Wow. And I learned from my oldest two getting married, I'm exhausted after my kids get married.
[27:45] [Speaker A] I bet.
[27:46] [Speaker B] It's emotionally exhausting. So, I've always told myself, "Take a few days to recover." Well, we're going to her wedding, all the things. We come back, the next day we move into our new house.
[27:58] [Speaker A] Oh my goodness.
[27:59] [Speaker B] 2 days after that, I go to a leadership retreat. And I've got a couple things that I'm responsible for. And I'm just like, "Lord, I can't do it. I don't have the resilience. I don't have the perseverance. God, I cannot do it." And the Lord has just been saying to me, "I am your strength." Mm-hmm. "The Lord is my strength." And he's had— every time I open my Bible, That's what I keep seeing.
[28:28] [Speaker A] Wow.
[28:28] [Speaker B] I've been in Psalm 28:7-9, where it talks about, "The Lord is your strength and your salvation." And it says, "And when I tell my heart that, when I remember that, my heart is helped." Yes. I was like, "It is. When I remember, God, who you are." So, it doesn't matter whatever the situation is, 'cause we're all gonna have these different situations.
[28:52] [Speaker A] Mm-hmm.
[28:53] [Speaker B] But what name of God ties to that specifically for you today, in that situation? And that's the name I'm holding on to for this season. And he'll give me another name of God when I'm in another season, and I need the different name of who he is.
[29:11] [Speaker A] Yeah.
[29:12] [Speaker B] Just knowing who he is informs me of who I am, and then what I have.
[29:17] [Speaker A] Yes.
[29:18] [Speaker B] To deal with this.
[29:20] [Speaker A] Oh, that's good.
[29:21] [Speaker B] But I love the writing the story.
[29:23] [Speaker A] Yes. Yeah, that's so good. Well, it helps to know the author. So what name of the author do I need today? It helps me to know how he identifies himself.
[29:32] [Speaker B] So good. Well, thank you again. We're out of time. I think we could just keep going.
[29:38] [Speaker A] Yeah.
[29:38] [Speaker B] I've so enjoyed talking to you, and I just kind of want to leave it with what you just said. That God is writing the story, and I need to know the author.
[29:49] [Speaker A] Yes.
[29:50] [Speaker B] Because knowing the author, knowing he is trustworthy, I can rest in that.
[29:57] [Speaker A] That's good.
[29:58] [Speaker B] Yeah, thank you.
[29:59] [Speaker A] Thanks, Andrea.
[30:02] [Speaker B] Thanks for joining us today. If you'd like to learn more about The Church Hub and how we're strengthening ministry leaders in the field, and the families who walk with them, you can visit thechurchhub.org. Until we meet again, I'll be praying that you experience the nearness of Jesus. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]