The Junior Warden: Knowing When Progress Has Stopped

This episode explores the relational function of the Junior Warden, focusing on the ability to notice when conversations, relationships, or group efforts can no longer move forward productively. The Junior Warden perspective is framed as the capacity to pause work when unmet needs or depletion prevent meaningful progress.

🔑 Key Takeaways

• Relational leadership requires noticing when no further progress is possible.
• Thrashing without movement is a sign that needs are not being met.
• Stopping work can be an act of care, not avoidance.
• Depletion, not disagreement, often blocks progress.
• Asking directly what someone needs can restore momentum or justify a pause.

💬 Featured Quotes

• “In noticing the relationships in your life, noticing the behavior of other people… a lot of things will start to become apparent.” (0:00–0:07)
• “You really gain enough insight when you're sitting in that junior warden role to effectively just stop the presses whenever you need to.” (0:31–0:42)
• “Being able to notice when no further progress can be made because someone else's needs are not being met.” (0:54–1:07)
• “What it feels like is… a whole lot of thrashing and not a lot of movement.” (1:19–1:30)
• “Those outbursts don't create progress towards the goal.” (1:42–1:48)
• “When do I stop this because it can't move forward any further?” (1:57–2:04)
• “Without that capacity… that thrashing will continue.” (2:11–2:16)
• “People will spin out.” (3:13–3:24)
• “Ask them, point blank… what do you need in this moment to recharge your batteries?” (3:18–3:29)
• “That inability to understand what you need to charge your batteries is something that we need to also be friendly to.” (4:12–4:16)
• “It’s enough in most cases as junior warden to note that the relationships… are unable to progress because people are depleted.” (5:26–5:33)

Learn more about interoception here: https://youtu.be/yaVOZ7nLa1Q

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Tim Dedman
• Jorge

Creators and Guests

Host

Brian Mattocks

Host and Founder of A Mason's Work - a podcast designed to help you use symbolism to grow. He's been working in the craft for over a decade and served as WM, trustee, and sat in every appointed chair in a lodge - at least once :D

What is A Mason's Work?

In this show we discuss the practical applications of masonic symbolism and how the working tools can be used to better yourself, your family, your lodge, and your community. We help good freemasons become better men through honest self development. We talk quite a bit about mental health and men's issues related to emotional and intellectual growth as well.

In noticing the relationships in your life, noticing the behavior of other people, inculcivating

the noticing we talked about yesterday, a lot of things will start to become apparent

as your sensitivity increases.

When we start viewing how people interact with each other, when we start being mindful

of the behavioral cues that in some cases people aren't aware of themselves, you really

gain enough insight when you're sitting in that junior warden role to effectively just

stop the presses whenever you need to.

This skill, if you cultivate it well, will put you in the top half of 1% in terms of leadership.

Being able to notice when no further progress can be made because someone else's needs

are not being met, is the relationship function or a core part of the relationship function

of the junior warden?

When you get this wrong, what it feels like is the room you're in, the relationship

you're in, do a whole lot of thrashing and not a lot of movement.

They don't make any progress.

You'll see people get very upset or very depleted or they begin having outbursts or things

like that, but they don't move the conversation forward.

Those outbursts don't create progress towards the goal.

When it comes to the junior warden perspective, should be central to the decision-making

faculty of the junior warden.

When do I stop this because it can't move forward any further?

Without that capacity, without that sensitivity, that thrashing will continue and actually,

like a part of a machine that's left untethered, will essentially vibrate it apart.

The organization, the group, the family unit, whatever, will essentially vibrate apart

from this inability of the organization to recognize that needs aren't being met and that

the stopping of the forward progress has to happen in order to address the rest and refreshment

requirements of the people you're working with.

The junior warden capacity, from a relational perspective, may not be able to identify what

rest is needed, what refreshment meaningfully looks like.

You may not develop that capacity natively out of the gate.

It may not be part of how you solve the problem.

When you start to understand this a little bit further and work with people, perhaps

in your lodge or in your life, one of the best things you can do when you note that people

are kind of spinning out is ask them, point blank, it seems like you're spinning out what do you need

in this moment to recharge your batteries?

I can relate this to an experience I had talking to a brother when I literally stopped to the conversation

and said, hey, I don't think we can do this any further.

It seems like you need to recharge your batteries.

What does that for you?

When I got the answer, I was shocked and it was, I don't know.

That's okay.

First and foremost, it's okay to be surprised by that answer.

I'm not surprised by it anymore because it's more and more common as I work with people.

But that inability to understand what you need to charge your batteries is something that we need to also be

sort of friendly to and aware of without judgment.

And in that process, you can maybe ask discovery questions.

Well, does going off for a walk in nature help you?

And if you go around the internet, you'll find tons of examples of what different people do to charge their batteries.

None of them are you.

None of those behaviors may work for you.

All of them may work for you.

It's hard to say this is where you need to go back to that behavioral level for yourself and cultivate your own understanding.

So you can figure out what charges your batteries.

But I will suggest to you that trying to push whatever charges your batteries onto someone else when you know that they are depleted is a bad idea.

It doesn't work well.

The people tend to get resentful.

It also may push people into environments of avoidance or addiction or all sorts of other stuff.

So it's enough in most cases as junior word to note that the relationships are or the work is unable to progress because people are depleted.

And maybe we should stop here and see, you know, come back out of another day, come back out of tomorrow.

When the emotional content is lower or when the batteries are recharged.

And there's a couple great books on this.

One of them is perfect.

It's called when.

And it talks about basically when what is the right moment to take action on this stuff.

And it speaks to a lot of the trends around understanding what times it is.

People are most productive.

When to do certain types of behavior because it speaks to different strengths that people have.

And different sort of circadian rhythms and things like that.

No one can do it.

But for you as junior warden working on those relationships, I think you have enough information now to start grabbing for maybe a little bit more of a perspective.

If you get stuck with this stuff, don't worry.

It's very, very normal to get stuck here.

Go reach out to the website.

Go reach out to me at BrianElementsWork.com.

If you're having these issues and you're getting stuck, reach out.

Maybe I can help.