The Dig

Johnnie Martinez
0 minutes 5 seconds0:05
Johnnie Martinez 0 minutes 5 seconds
On today's episode of the Dig, I am joined by three members of the altar group and I will let the three of them introduce themselves.
Johnnie Martinez 0 minutes 14 seconds
Well, if you'd start us.
VG
Valerie L. Gerard
0 minutes 15 seconds0:15
Valerie L. Gerard 0 minutes 15 seconds
Sure. Thanks, Johnnie.
Valerie L. Gerard 0 minutes 16 seconds
I'm Valerie Gerard Co, CEO of the Ulta Group and I lead the largest practice within Ulta that's focused on providing general consulting and advisory services. And you know it might make sense for me just to spend a second to introduce the Alta group, to your listeners who aren.
Valerie L. Gerard 0 minutes 32 seconds
Familiar with us, we have been around for 30 years.
Valerie L. Gerard 0 minutes 37 seconds
We are the undisputed leader when it comes to providing advisory services.
Valerie L. Gerard 0 minutes 42 seconds
On a global basis to the equipment leasing and finance.
Valerie L. Gerard 0 minutes 45 seconds
Industry, we are exclusively focused on equipment finance and leasing.
Valerie L. Gerard 0 minutes 50 seconds
We're not distracted by mortgages or consumer autos. It's just the core equipment leasing business and anything that a client would have in terms of a need, we do it.
Valerie L. Gerard 1 minute 3 seconds
So that could be assisting them with some growth initiatives, entering new markets, becoming more efficient in what they do.
Valerie L. Gerard 1 minute 11 seconds
We have a lot of competitive intelligence, market intelligence work we.
Jim Jackson 21 minutes 28 seconds
So I would imagine that's that's going to be another leg in the stool that people will consider as we go forward.
Jim Jackson 21 minutes 34 seconds
It's just still a bit at the infancy stage right now, so it's it's it's a consideration, but I wouldn't say it's a major factor just yet.
Johnnie Martinez
21 minutes 46 seconds21:46
Johnnie Martinez 21 minutes 46 seconds
Hey, understood. And as we we sort of get into the end of this, I know this report is so comprehensive and touches on so many different things that we could discuss. But I want to be valuable with with your time and obviously the listeners time if we could.
Johnnie Martinez 22 minutes
Go through and kind of some some key takeaways, distillation, maybe one or two from each of you of things that you know sections in the report.
Johnnie Martinez 22 minutes 8 seconds
Key things that you learn while putting it together that the reader should be aware of and you know they can.
Johnnie Martinez 22 minutes 13 seconds
They can go in and look at the the report themselves.
Johnnie Martinez 22 minutes 15 seconds
Of them trying to get the the more macro view of it.
Johnnie Martinez 22 minutes 21 seconds
Wait a few would start.
RR
Rick Remiker
22 minutes 24 seconds22:24
Rick Remiker 22 minutes 24 seconds
Well, I would start with, you know, watch for the continued reemergence of Banks re entering the space. More than likely with a little more pricing discipline and probably a little more measured balance sheet growth focused predominantly on customers.
Rick Remiker 22 minutes 43 seconds
So I don't think that it's an end to the glory days of of independence and captives, but I think you'll see 2025.
Rick Remiker 22 minutes 51 seconds
The banks will come back, particularly the regional banks will come back.
Rick Remiker 22 minutes 54 seconds
Back in a much stronger fashion.
JJ
Jim Jackson
22 minutes 59 seconds22:59
Jim Jackson 22 minutes 59 seconds
Yeah, Johnny, I'd say from my standpoint on the M and a market, you know we're expecting a strong M and a market.
Jim Jackson 23 minutes 5 seconds
I think there's a lot of things in our favor.
Jim Jackson 23 minutes 7 seconds
The caution again is keep an eye on the interest rates.
Jim Jackson 23 minutes 11 seconds
Let's see what the Fed does.
Jim Jackson 23 minutes 12 seconds
Let's hope we can continue on our course to have a soft landing and the interest rates behave so that we can continue to see some progress in the M and a front in 25.
VG
Valerie L. Gerard
23 minutes 25 seconds23:25
Valerie L. Gerard 23 minutes 25 seconds
And I would just throw in one cautionary note.
Valerie L. Gerard 23 minutes 28 seconds
You know the industry has benefited from some very strong credit quality over the last handful of years and I think it's just time now where we're starting to see potentially some stress on portfolio.
Valerie L. Gerard 23 minutes 40 seconds
So keep a watchful eye.
Valerie L. Gerard 23 minutes 42 seconds
We're not concerned that there's going to be any big credit crunch or crisis out there, but just start to just start to pay a little more attention on the credit book.
Johnnie Martinez
23 minutes 53 seconds23:53
Johnnie Martinez 23 minutes 53 seconds
Caviano that that all makes a bunch of sense.
Johnnie Martinez 23 minutes 55 seconds
And you have so much of it is, you know, you can do the due diligence on the front end.
Johnnie Martinez 23 minutes 58 seconds
It's less problems on the back end.
RR
Rick Remiker
24 minutes 1 second24:01
Rick Remiker 24 minutes 1 second
Absolutely.
VG
Valerie L. Gerard
24 minutes 1 second24:01
Valerie L. Gerard 24 minutes 1 second
There you go.
Johnnie Martinez
24 minutes 3 seconds24:03
Johnnie Martinez 24 minutes 3 seconds
Alright. Well, with that all in mind, I would just say if is there anything else that our listeners should know about the report or the Alta group and then obviously they can read the the reporting itself and but anything else in particular that stands out that we should.
Johnnie Martinez 24 minutes 18 seconds
Discuss at this moment.
RR
Rick Remiker
24 minutes 22 seconds24:22
Rick Remiker 24 minutes 22 seconds
Again, go to thealtagroup.com and pull down the 2025 Alta Group Insights report.
Rick Remiker 24 minutes 26 seconds
I think it'll be a excellent 5-10 minute read.
Johnnie Martinez
24 minutes 32 seconds24:32
Johnnie Martinez 24 minutes 32 seconds
Alright, well, I thank all three of you for Jim.
Johnnie Martinez 24 minutes 35 seconds
Are you gonna add something? Sorry.
JJ
Jim Jackson
24 minutes 37 seconds24:37
Jim Jackson 24 minutes 37 seconds
No, I was just going to also say and once once you go to the website and pull down the report and read it, obviously if you have questions about the report, you know, I'd encourage everyone. Our contact information is out on the website.
Johnnie Martinez
24 minutes 40 seconds24:40
Johnnie Martinez 24 minutes 40 seconds
Hmm.
JJ
Jim Jackson
24 minutes 47 seconds24:47
Jim Jackson 24 minutes 47 seconds
Feel free to call Valerie or Rick or myself.
Jim Jackson 24 minutes 50 seconds
We'll be happy to explain anything that maybe isn't quite clear or expand on any of the discussion items in there as as the reader would see fit.
Jim Jackson 24 minutes 59 seconds
So we're happy to help.
VG
Valerie L. Gerard
25 minutes 2 seconds25:02
Valerie L. Gerard 25 minutes 2 seconds
And Johnnie thanks for having us. As your guests on the dig.
Valerie L. Gerard 25 minutes 4 seconds
We really appreciate the opportunity to connect with you and your listeners.
Johnnie Martinez
25 minutes 8 seconds25:08
Johnnie Martinez 25 minutes 8 seconds
Of course.
Johnnie Martinez 25 minutes 9 seconds
Yes, I appreciate having all three of you on.
Johnnie Martinez 25 minutes 11 seconds
I thank you so much for your time today.
RR
Rick Remiker
25 minutes 14 seconds25:14
Rick Remiker 25 minutes 14 seconds
Thank you.

What is The Dig?

Listen in as Equipment Finance News editors interview the leaders in the industry, on both the lender and dealer sides of the table, to discuss new developments, trends, opportunities and more.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/26-0
On today's episode of the Dig, I
am joined by three members of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/26-1
the altar group and I will let
the three of them introduce

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/26-2
themselves.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/30-0
Well, if you'd start us.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/38-0
Sure. Thanks, Johnnie.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/77-0
I'm Valerie Gerard Co, CEO of
the Alta Group and I lead the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/77-1
largest practice within Ulta
that's focused on providing

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/77-2
general consulting and advisory
services. And you know it might

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/77-3
make sense for me just to spend
a second to introduce the Alta

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/77-4
group, to your listeners who
aren.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/92-0
Familiar with us, we have been
around for 30 years.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/102-0
We are the undisputed leader
when it comes to providing

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/102-1
advisory services.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/111-0
On a global basis to the
equipment leasing and finance.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/128-0
Industry, we are exclusively
focused on equipment finance and

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/128-1
leasing.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/161-0
We're not distracted by
mortgages or consumer autos.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/161-1
It's just the core equipment
leasing business and anything

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/161-2
that a client would have in
terms of a need, we do it.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/181-0
So that could be assisting them
with some growth initiatives,

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/181-1
entering new markets, becoming
more efficient in what they do.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/191-0
We have a lot of competitive
intelligence, market

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/191-1
intelligence work we.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/194-0
We do.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/200-0
We assist in selecting leasing
systems.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/234-0
We have a group that is focused
on equipment management, so if

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/234-1
you need some appraisals,
valuations, some residual

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/234-2
impairment analysis as well as
remarketing, we have a team that

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/234-3
does that.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/261-0
We offer mergers and
acquisitions as a practice which

the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/417-1
industry and buy a company and
also supporting, you know,

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/417-2
sellers in the industry who
might be looking to sell their

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/417-3
their property to to other
financial institutions.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/422-0
So Rick, I'll turn it over to
you.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/430-0
Yeah. Thanks, Jim and Johnnie.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/436-0
I'm Rick remicar.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/458-0
I'm vice chairman with the Alta
group and Prior to joining the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/458-1
Alta group nearly five years
ago, I spent 40 years in

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/458-2
commercial banking, specialty
finance, and.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/483-0
Equipment, finance and equipment
leasing and I provide support

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/483-1
and consultation to all the
members of the Alta group and

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/483-2
clients predominantly in the
bank equipment finance space.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/515-0
Benja will thank all three of
you for joining us here today

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/515-1
and I think the best place to
start now that we have the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/515-2
introduction and as well as kind
of the background of who you

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/515-3
guys are covered, the 10,000
foot view part of the reason

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/515-4
why.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/551-0
We are having a discussion today
is the release of the Alta

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/551-1
Group's report on sort of the
state of the equipment finance

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/551-2
industry and when we're talking
about the state of the industry,

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/551-3
I think the best place to start
is like I said, that 10,000

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/551-4
foot.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/558-0
View and we get some of the
specific areas.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/575-0
So going into 2025, as we look
at the rest of this year, what

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/575-1
is the state of the equipment
finance industry?

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/614-0
Well, why don't I kick it off
and tell you that I I think

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/581-0
Mm hmm.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/614-1
there's a lot of opportunity for
the industry in 2025. You know,

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/614-2
we're coming off a really rough
18 month patched where you had

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/614-3
the bank failures at Silicon
Valley Bank and Signature Bank.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/631-0
And that really caused a
liquidity crisis that's put put

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/631-1
the industry a little bit on
pause, if not in a backward step

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/631-2
or two.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/641-0
And what we're seeing now is
we're looking into 2025.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/678-0
There are a lot of signs that
seem to suggest that it's going

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/678-1
to be a good year for us when
you're looking at certain

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/678-2
variables in the economy, when
you're looking at signals in the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/678-3
industry itself like industry
confidence and then you have a

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/678-4
new administration that's
coming.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/683-0
In with some probusiness.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/706-0
Policies that certainly would
help bolster our industry and

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/706-1
would result in a very positive
experience for equipment,

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/706-2
finance and leasing companies.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/744-0
There are many different avenues
that we see in terms of growth

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/744-1
for the industry in terms of,
you know, climate finance and

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/744-2
financing, data centers,
equipment as a service, you

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/744-3
know, all of those things will
certainly bolster the industry

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/744-4
in terms of its growth. I would
say, however.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/778-0
One cautionary note in that is
there are a lot of wild cards

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/778-1
out there. And so while we think
that there's a lot of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/778-2
opportunity for the industry,
management teams really need to

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/778-3
be thinking about, you know,
we're not going to coast.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/792-0
To growth throughout 2025, there
might be some speed bumps along

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/792-1
the way.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/818-0
And let me you know, let me jump
in Valerie and just encourage

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/818-1
all the all the listeners to
pull down the the 2025 Alta

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/818-2
Group Insights report.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/823-0
It's a great read.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/837-0
It covers a lot of different
segments and a lot of different

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/837-1
areas that some of them will
touch on during this podcast.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/837-2
But.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/861-0
You know, if I could, if I could
summarize what sort of one

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/861-1
overarching theme, I think it's
net net positive outlook for

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/861-2
2025.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/868-0
But certainly with high degree
of element of uncertainty.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/904-0
Maybe the advice to listeners
would be expect the unexpected.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/904-1
You know if you go back to if we
were recording this podcast

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/904-2
exactly two years ago in mid
January of 20/20/20 of 2023, I

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/904-3
think that we would have been
positive.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/930-0
Maybe not as positive as today,
but we would have been net

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/930-1
positive at that point in two.
And just think what happened six

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/930-2
or seven weeks later with the
collapse of several.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/936-0
Regional banks that created a
complete.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/946-0
Completely different industry
dynamic for the next year and a

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/946-1
half or two years.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/949-0
Yeah, I think.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/952-0
I think that's a great point,
Rick.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/963-0
You know we we sort of get
lulled into a false sense of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/963-1
comfort sometimes.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/974-0
You know, Johnny, I'd follow
that up.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/970-0
Mm hmm.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/995-0
You know specifically on the M
and a market similar to

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/995-1
Valerie's comments. You know the
last couple of years in terms of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/995-2
M and a activity, things have
been pretty quiet in the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/995-3
industry.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1005-0
But I think 2025 where we're
pretty well suited.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1015-0
From an economic standpoint, to
have a pretty strong M and a

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1015-1
market.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1028-0
This year, you know, the market
does not like uncertainty.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1049-0
And there's there's a fair
amount of certainty around a

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1049-1
number of factors, including the
fact that the uncertainty

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1049-2
election you know is now behind
us.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1054-0
We have an administration in
place.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1072-0
Who's committed to reducing
regulation and and discussing a

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1072-1
reduction in the corporate tax
rates?

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1076-0
The stock market continues to
perform well.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1096-0
Unemployment levels are low.
Those traditionally a factors

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1096-1
that generally contribute to a
pretty strong M and a market.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1126-0
The one factor that that's still
a little bit of a you know, an

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1126-1
uncertainty at this point and
it's just you know reared its

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1126-2
head not too long ago when we
had a super strong jobs report.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1162-0
You know the interest rate cut
has has kind of been sidelined,

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1133-0
Mm hmm.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1162-1
if you will, by the Fed and
they're they're kind of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1162-2
backpedaling a bit on that. And
I think some of the Fed members

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1162-3
are even thinking a hike might
be in order.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1168-0
That, of course, will.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1183-0
Will quell some M and a activity
if rates indeed rise.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1213-0
I think if I think you know the
other factors in the environment

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1213-1
should keep us pretty steady,
but I'd caution keep an eye on

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1213-2
interest rates cause those do
impact the the the level of M

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1213-3
and a activity.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1218-0
Gotcha. Fantastic.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1250-0
And you know one thing I wanted
to get into, especially on the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1250-1
the M and a side and we can talk
about how this sort of plays

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1250-2
into the wider equipment finance
space as well as are there any

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1250-3
particular segments in terms of
you know, bank owned versus.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1281-0
Independent or you know,
specific asset types where

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1281-1
you're seeing lenders that are
focused on these asset types

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1281-2
more attractive in the M and a
space. Is there anything like

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1281-3
that that's standing out as we
start to look at the rest of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1281-4
this year?

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1289-0
Well, I think I think a couple
of factors.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1292-0
You know.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1303-0
Let let's talk about a couple
things that are going on in the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1303-1
marketplace.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1346-0
One area I think is is the lift
out teams that we're seeing. So

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1346-1
certain strategics and others
are investing not not only in

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1346-2
focused on complete companies,
if you will, but are focused on

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1346-3
potentially lift out teams where
senior executives are brought

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1346-4
over. That might help a strateg.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1357-0
To expand its market offerings
or gain some additional

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1357-1
relationships.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1373-0
Think of the folks from Madison
Capital going over to Oakmont

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1373-1
recently.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1380-0
Think again about the folks from
Honor Capital moving over to

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1380-1
Dex.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1403-0
And I think we'll continue to
see those opportunistic lift

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1403-1
outs going on throughout the
course of 2025.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1407-0
You know, I'd, I'd say the real
winners.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1410-0
For for.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1439-0
For the past year and I've seen
a lot of private equity

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1439-1
investment in there, are these,
you know, middle market

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1439-2
structured firms where the
private equity companies feel

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1439-3
there's still a good return to
be made.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1477-0
With those businesses basically
picking up the slack for the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1477-1
banks as they sort of exited
those, those that tranche of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1477-2
assets and that tranche of
lending and those private equity

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1477-3
firms that went out and actually
built teams or acquired teams

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1477-4
that were versed in bringing
over structured cred.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1492-0
And potentially, you know,
structuring those in such a way

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1492-1
that they provide a strong
return.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1500-0
Similar to the Stonebriar model,
if you will.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1511-0
Where they can actually make a
decent return on their

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1511-1
investment.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1519-0
Yeah, Jim and I would just echo
that.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1563-0
I think that one of the big
questions hanging over all of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1563-1
the private equity investment in
the industry, which has been

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1563-2
significant and in some of the
most significant private equity

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1563-3
investment I've seen in in many
decades is when the banks get

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1563-4
back into the market if and.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1591-0
When they get back into the
market, will, will, will pricing

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1591-1
compression margin compression
Dr. pricing down across the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1591-2
industry or will it really be
constrained to that bank credit

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1591-3
quality?

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1593-0
Sector.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1631-0
And you know, I think the early
signs are hopeful that the banks

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1631-1
are the bank equipment finance
companies are having greater

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1631-2
pricing discipline, focusing on
risk adjusted return, focusing

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1631-3
on customer relationships and
total relationship return. But

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1631-4
as they say, time will tell.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1636-0
That's an excellent point, Rick.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1638-0
Agreed.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1661-0
Gotcha. OK. And as we talk about
sort of the potential turn of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1661-1
the the banks, I know that's a
potential risk factor.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1692-0
One of the other ones I want to
touch on specifically and then

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1692-1
we can talk about any other risk
factors that are worth

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1692-2
discussing. Is the potential
risk factor of tariffs. And

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1692-3
that's been kind of the the buzz
word that's been thrown around

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1692-4
since the election as one.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1719-0
Of the things that can
potentially limit what's

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1719-1
happening in the economy as a
whole, but it it transits into

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1719-2
equipment finance with so much
of our industry having

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1719-3
international firms.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1730-0
From where you guys said how
much of A role is that going to

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1730-1
play?

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1743-0
From how much of A concern
should that be as we start kind

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1743-1
of forecasting the equipment
finance sector for 2025?

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1749-0
Well, I think it could be.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1762-0
It could be wide-ranging and as
we sit here today on in mid

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1762-1
January.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1799-0
We don't know what we don't know
and no one does, to be honest,

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1799-1
at this point, I think what you
have to be concerned with is not

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1799-2
only, you know, the Trump
administration tariffs, that

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1799-3
they potentially could impose,
but then what's the cause and

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1799-4
effect, what are the?

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1809-0
Retaliatory tariffs that might
be imposed.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1813-0
By an EU country.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1825-0
Or another country that could
impact somebody that needs

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1825-1
machinery.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1837-0
That's manufactured in Germany
or wherever it might be.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1870-0
So you know, the one thing that
I think we can be certain of in

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1870-1
in the tariff environment is
there will be winners and

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1870-2
losers, but it's a bit difficult
to exactly predict who's going

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1870-3
to be the winner and who's going
to be the loser at this point.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1872-0
In time.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1914-0
And and I would say from my
standpoint, Johnny, you know the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1914-1
thing to be, you know crystal
clear about and careful of is

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1914-2
you know during you know 2020 we
came off a supply chain shortage

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1914-3
due to the fact that you know
everyone was homesick with COV.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1928-0
And factory workers weren't
working.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1943-0
You know, these tariffs could
have a similar impact with

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1943-1
supply chain shortages if if
indeed we don't have.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1952-0
Companies here in the states
that are building equivalent

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1952-1
products.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1996-0
Or, you know, it could even be
from a parts perspective that

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1996-1
it's more difficult to get parts
and parts are more expensive to

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1996-2
maintain existing pieces of
equipment which will obviously

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1996-3
impact the industry and impact.
You know our ability to, you

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/1996-4
know, hit the higher volumes
through those.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2010-0
Equipment finance companies, if,
if the supply chain is again

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2010-1
disrupted.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2030-0
You know, we touch on it in the
insights report and again, I'd

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2030-1
encourage listeners to pull that
report down.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2047-0
But the one trend that we can
definitely speak to is there's

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2047-1
been for US manufacturers.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2075-0
There has been a definite trend
to diversify their supplier

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2075-1
base, so they're not dependent
only on China or only on one

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2075-2
particular country and then
where possible, and where

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2075-3
feasible and practical.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2077-0
To bring.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2084-0
Some manufacturing back into the
United States.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2139-0
States. So I think you'll see
that continued trend towards re

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2139-1
shoring to the United States
were practical but also

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2139-2
diversifying and not relying
strictly on China and having

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2139-3
manufacturing capabilities in
several countries. So that you

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2139-4
know significant tariffs or
geopolitical activities in a

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2139-5
particular country don't create
a.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2145-0
Complete shutdown in their
supply chain.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2152-0
Got you know that makes a ton of
sense.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2187-0
And you know, as we start
looking at the the rest of the

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2187-1
year, we've talked about kind of
two of the the key challenges I

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2187-2
would just you know ask is there
is there any other thing that we

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2187-3
should be watching from a
challenging side and then we?

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2196-0
Can get into some of the the
wider activity in the space.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2211-0
Well, I think we've touched a
little bit on trade policy with

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2211-1
tariffs.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2253-0
We talked briefly about monetary
policy as it relates to interest

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2253-1
rates and, you know, uncertainty
around if rates will fall if

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2253-2
they fall, how much will they
fall or could rates remain flat

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2253-3
or could they rise the other
part of monetary policy to be

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2253-4
mindful of is stren.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2276-0
Of the US dollar and how that
impacts both imports and

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2276-1
exports. And then I think the
third leg of the stool.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2277-0
So trade policy.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2303-0
Monetary policy. And then I
think we need to be mindful of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2303-1
tax policy, probably a net net
positive for most customers, but

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2303-2
something to be mindful of
heading into 2025.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2309-0
Patrick, OK, that makes a ton of
sense.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2347-0
I I think the other thing I
would add to that, Rick, if if I

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2347-1
could, you know we and not that
they'll have us you know direct

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2347-2
impact but but certainly
something to keep an eye on as

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2347-3
the geopolitical conflicts that
are going on in the world right.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2358-0
Now we, you know, we still have
issues in Europe.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2361-0
We still have issues in the
Middle East.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2387-0
Who knows what's going to, you
know, take place with Taiwan and

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2387-1
China, but you know, certainly
things to consider along the way

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2387-2
as these tend to take a little
bit of focus off.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2415-0
You know the US economy and and
put it squarely in the rest of

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2415-1
the world which you know can
obviously impact our ability to

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2415-2
continue to do business and and
be successful.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2417-0
So something else to consider.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2428-0
Gotcha. No, that that is also
something that I yeah, I don't

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2428-1
think it's mentioned enough.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2449-0
I've heard a lot more mentioned
over the past, maybe six months

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2449-1
or so that you know, the
geopolitical aspect is something

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2449-2
that even for the US firms, they
have to account for.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2481-0
And so I I think you for
mentioning that one other thing

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2481-1
I want to touch on and this can
be a a positive or a negative.

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2481-2
And I I say it that way, just
because you mentioned as well

2f8b3a32-f44d-4180-9d33-060c94098203/2481-3