Fight, Flight, or Freeze: Stress Management Hacks for HVAC Pros (with Dr. Rebecca Heiss!!)

Mary Carter and Stephen Ross welcome stress physiologist, author, and keynote speaker Dr. Rebecca Heiss for an honest, energetic chat about handling stress in the home services industry. Think stress hurts your performance? Think again!

Dr. Heiss reveals why stress is actually the secret ingredient to success...when you learn how to harness it. From managing unexpected HVAC emergencies to dealing with sales pressure, customer relationships, and even personal slumps, we dive deep into the mindset shifts and actionable habits that help anyone—from contractors to sales reps—turn high-pressure moments into powerful motivators.

Get practical advice, hilarious real-world stories, and science-backed strategies you won’t find anywhere else. Whether you're dealing with tough customers or tough days, this episode is your guide to staying cool, keeping your momentum, and thriving when it counts. Plus, hear about building confidence, overcoming imposter syndrome, and finding meaning in the daily grind.

Hit subscribe for more industry insights, stories, and expert interviews—and let’s blast off together!

Disclaimer:

The information shared in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as medical or mental health advice. We are not medical experts, doctors, or licensed mental health professionals. If you are seeking medical or mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment, please consult a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding your health or a medical condition.

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Want to reach out to us? Email us at [e-mail].

Creators and Guests

Host

Mary Carter

Mary Carter is a seasoned sales and marketing leader with over six years at Trane Technologies, currently serving as Regional Sales Manager. With a strong foundation in RHVAC, consumer finance, and strategic account management, Mary brings valuable insights and real-world experience to every conversation.

Host

Stephen Ross

Stephen Ross is a dynamic sales trainer and leadership coach with over nine years at Sandler Training. A former HVAC business owner, Stephen combines his technical knowledge with proven sales expertise, offering a unique perspective on what it takes to succeed in the RHVAC industry.

Guest

Dr. Rebecca Heiss

Dr. Heiss is a stress expert dedicated to transforming our fears into fuel we can use through her T-minus 3 Technique. Her research has been designated "transformative" by the National Science Foundation. When she's not on a stage, she is happiest when hiking or surfing with her two spoiled rotten dogs Guinness and Murphy.

Producer

Jessica Blair

Jessica Blair is a Senior Learning Manager at Trane Technologies' Residential HVAC unit. With 20+ years of experience in learning and development, she designs and markets blended learning programs to enhance customer learning and align with business goals.

Editor

Kerianne O'Donnell

Kerianne O'Donnell is the Digital Learning Manager at Trane Technologies and serves as the editor of the HVAC Full Blast podcast. With a background in graphic design and a strong passion for developing digital learning experiences, Kerianne brings her creative expertise to the podcast, delivering engaging and impactful content to listeners.

What is HVAC Full Blast?

HVAC Full Blast is your bi-weekly dose of HVAC business growth, powered by Trane. Hosted by Mary Carter (Trane Technologies) and Stephen Ross (Sandler), this podcast is built for residential HVAC dealers who want to scale their business, sharpen their sales, and lead with confidence.

Tune in for expert interviews, dealer success stories, and practical tips on pricing, service agreements, workforce development, and more. Whether you're in the field or in the office, HVAC Full Blast helps you stay ahead in a competitive market.

Interested in becoming a Trane Dealer? Visit our website at https://partners.trane.com/

We'd love your feedback and suggestions on future episodes. Please email us at [e-mail].

This podcast channel is for general informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed in these episodes are those of the panelists and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Trane Technologies. Trane Technologies makes no warranty or guarantee concerning accuracy or completeness of the content presented in this webinar.

Trane does not provide tax, legal, or accounting advice. This material is for informational purposes only and it should not be relied on for tax, legal, or accounting advice. Tax law is subject to continual change. All decisions are your responsibility and you should consult your own tax, legal, and accounting advisors. Trane disclaims any responsibility for actions taken on the material presented.

All trademarks referenced are the trademarks of their respective owners. ©2025 Trane. All Rights Reserved.

Welcome to HVAC Full Blast,

where real stories
fuel real solutions.

Join hosts Mary Carter and
Stephen Ross as they welcome

Doctor.

Rebecca Heiss, stress
physiologist, keynote speaker,

author, and
evolutionary biologist.

In this episode,

discover why stress isn't
always the enemy and how the

way we think about it can power
our greatest accomplishments,

both in the HVAC
business and beyond.

From navigating stressful
heating and cooling crisis to

uncovering fresh perspectives
on resilience, service,

and growth, Doctor.

Heiss brings valuable insight
and a fearless formula for

thriving under pressure.

Let's get started.

Welcome back to HVAC Full
Blast. I'm Mary Carter.

I'm Steven Ross.

And we're very excited today
because we have a special guest.

Yeah, this is Doctor.
Rebecca Heiss.

I've known Rebecca for about
seven or eight years now.

And so when we
were brainstorming

on starting a podcast,

At at the top of the
list was Rebecca's name.

So I'm pretty excited
for today's episode.

I am too. I'm so excited.

Rebecca, thank you so
much for joining us.

Well, thank you so
much for having me.

Man, you just made me
nervous. I feel the stress.

This is great.

That's a that I I once had
a public speaking guru tell

me, like, that's your
little friend anxiety,

and you just greet that little
friend and you say, hey.

You're here. Let's
rock and roll.

Mary, that's my whole spiel.

So we're basically
done with the podcast.

Thank you so much for listening.

All right. Thanks for listening.

You can email us at H
No, I'm just kidding.

But seriously, we've got Doctor.

Rebecca Heiss in
the building today.

She is a stress physiologist,
author, keynote speaker,

and newly appointed fellow
at the Center of Innovation

and Leadership for
Furman University.

Did I get that right?

Nailed it. You nailed
it. Thank you so much.

And I think just to
throw in there, I mean,

we introduced you as
a stress physiologist,

but your background, you're
an evolutionary biologist, right?

So that's what your PhD
is, you're really smart.

We should probably
just start with that.

But I'm just a huge nerd, right?

Like I just kept
going to school.

So, I mean, I a master's
degree in ornithology.

And if you know what that is,

you're just as big
of a nerd as I am.

So birds, right?

There you go.

I have a degree in
evolution human behavior.

And then my PhD is
actually stress physiology.

So, like, all kinds of
just super nerdy topics.

So we can we can dive
deep into any of them.

I I basically love studying humans
and the weird ways that we behave.

I'm like imagining a
therapist for dinosaurs.

When put all of this together.

I was just this time for
the next career shift,

that might be it.

I like it.

Oh, that's so cool.

I'm also really, really getting my
spelling challenged here with all of

these new fun science words.

So super fun.

So we're we're very
curious about your

background and how we're
gonna weave this into

HVAC and home contracting
because, obviously,

we're HVAC full blast.

So maybe just to get to
know a little bit about you,

have you had a recent heating
and cooling event in your life

or maybe anything that's
popped up in that world?

Yeah.

You know, when you initially,
asked me that question,

I yesterday had an HVAC
specialist come out to a new

house that I bought because the
people that I bought this house

from had never had a
filter in their system

in sixteen years or so
that they own the house.

So that was a really
exciting moment.

And then that, the other
thing that came to mind

is

lean hits here in Greenville
and all the power and

everything went out.

I was in Africa with my husband,

and our dogs were here
with their dog sitter.

And there was no heat, no
airflow to the building,

and this was an absolute
panic moment for me.

So talk about putting
my stress into practice,

and having to practice
what I preach.

That was a those moments.

So I really am grateful to all
of the professionals that are

listening to your podcast today,

for all of their help in
getting us squared away in both

of those situations.

Oh my gosh.

So I love how that kind
of ties into what we wanna

talk about because, you know,

normally when we think about someone
going through a heating and air event,

we think about the customer
and they're already reaching out at

such a panic point.

Right?

There's a big, you know,

level of stress that they're
bringing to a contractor.

But vice versa, our
contractors also

undergo a lot of stress
throughout the year and the

seasonality of the business
and how that bobs and weaves,

you know, it can really
lend itself to, you know,

all sorts of just just kind
of anxieties that bubble up.

And one thing that really
comes up is, you know,

how do we manage that?

How do we manage that well?

How do we keep the ball rolling
in a positive momentous way?

Do all the things we said we
were gonna do, we wanna do,

keep innovating for the future.

Like, even just this little list
that I'm rattling off is stressful.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think Actually, you hit two
really important points there.

The first one that I just wanna
address quickly is, you know,

as you're listing these things,
you're like, oh my gosh.

That's stressful
in and of itself.

And I think this is where
a lot of people get stress management

wrong is that they
add to their list.

Like, have to do this too.

I have to go to a yoga
class, I have to do breathing exercises,

and I have to do this.

And my research from last year
showed that people stress out

even more trying to get
rid of their stress.

So this is a really nasty cycle
that we get in because we try

the new thing or we try some
breathing and it doesn't help.

And then we feel broken.
And the onus is on us.

I'm a failure, and I
just can't get it right,

and I will forever be stressed.

And it's a really state
of hopelessness, really,

that we get into pretty quickly.

So the the other piece that
I just wanna bring to this

is rather than managing
stress because most people's

idea of stress management
is how do I get rid of it?

Okay. I don't want
stress in my life.

And I think that that is a
perspective that needs a little

shifting because you're never
going to get rid of stress.

And so if you're constantly
fighting against stress,

you're wasting a
whole lot of energy.

And rather than fight against
something that we can't

control, when stress finds us

we're going to welcome it in.

We're going to thank
the energy that our body

is producing for helping us
rise to the occasion because

that's all stress is.

It's energy that our
body gets to use.

And it's up to us to direct it
in a way that is useful to us

rather than something that is going
to hold us back and and

make things worse.

So there's good cholesterol.
There's bad cholesterol.

Is that what I'm
hearing you say?

I mean, about stress, is
that kinda how it breaks?

I don't know. Is that or is
it the stress all the same?

It's just in how you use it.

So this is really interesting
because the the older models

have and I'm sure some of you have
heard of distress versus eustress.

So there's good
stress, eustress,

the kind of thing that, like,

gets you out of bed and gets
you motivated in the morning,

and distress, which is, the bad
stress, the stuff that, like,

overwhelms you.

I wanna throw all of
that out the window.

I wanna just say stress
is stress is stress.

It's energy.

And it's the way we think
about it that is really the

difference maker.

And so one of the one of
the more motivating studies

to me is a study that was done
in twenty thirteen looking at

thirty thousand Americans.

And within this group,

they asked people who had
very high levels of stress,

do you believe that stress
is bad for your health?

And

this is unsurprising.

Probably most of us are high
level stress, and we're like,

yeah, stress is bad for us.

Of course, we're trying
to get rid of it.

Well, people died at a
really high mortality rate.

So forty three percent higher mortality
rate than the rest of the study group.

The interesting part is people
that had the same level of

stress, so very high levels
of stress, but simply

believed

that stress wasn't
bad for them that it

might be good or
it was just energy,

they had the lowest mortality
rate of the entire study.

So lower than people who had very
low levels of stress to begin with.

What that means is
stress isn't the thing

that's killing us.

It's the way we think about
the stress that is good or bad.

And that's a pretty
massive I don't know,

pretty big finding, I think,

to help people shift their mindset
around what stress really is.

All right, I got a
question for you.

So

when I first got started
in heating and air,

I was doing residential sales.

So I would go to
somebody's house,

my clothes would be clean.

I would have showered
in the morning.

I'm feeling warm and
fuzzy. Life's good.

I go into an attic for thirty
minutes. I'm dripping in sweat.

Now I'm not feeling so good.

Fast forward eight hours later and
my last call at the end of

the day, Like, I've had it.

And there was one customer
specifically where he

was giving me some attitude
and I gave it right back.

And and in in not and probably
a very unprofessional way.

Right?

And part of that's just going,

I would not have responded
to that guy that way

at eight thirty in the morning.

But at five thirty
in the afternoon,

I'm bit out of shape.

I attribute that to stress.

I'm like, oh, I've
had a stressful day.

It's been a long day. I lost
my cool because of stress.

But you're saying,
hey. Wait a minute.

It's just your response to it.

But I think the nature is
when you've had a long day and

you have a lot going on, you
don't respond in your best way.

Right? Is that?

All of that is true. Yes.
Yes and yes and yes and.

So my challenge to each
of you is to say, well,

what else could this mean?

So I ask people to get really
curious with their body,

especially under stress.

So

I'll throw out
another example here.

You said you were sweaty,
you were hot, you were tired.

It was one of those This
is bad. I'm in a bad space.

Let me let me just challenge
that and say when you're sweaty

and hot and tired
and you're like, ugh,

you might have also
just worked out.

Right?

Which people pay to do.

They go to the gym.

All of this torture and then
they're like, oh, euphoria.

Right?

Like, I just did the thing
and and so so much of that

can be mindset.

Now that is hugely challenging.

That is I I wanna pause
and really recognize that.

Like, you've had a you've had
day after day of people just sort

of beating on you all day long.

When is the reset?

Right? Is it when at
the end of the day?

Is it when you go to bed?
Is it the next morning?

Why can't you take a pause before
you go into that next client?

Just and when I say pause,
I mean thirty seconds to go.

Man, I am so lucky that
I get to go do this

because x.

Because here's here's another
sort of really important piece

to to understanding
the stress response.

People are trying to get rid
of the very thing that is bringing

purpose and meaning
to their life.

So I say that, at again,

twenty thirteen was
big for stress studies.

Twenty thirteen study looked
at what creates the most

meaningful and purposeful lives,

And stress is the
number one correlate.

So if you're trying
to eliminate stress,

you're actually running away
from the thing that's bringing

meaning and purpose
to your life.

So if you can reset
in that moment, go,

this is really stressful.

And that must mean that this
is some kind of a barometer for

how much I care.

I really care about
what I'm doing.

I really care, for
whatever reason it is,

for the client's comfort, for
my comfort, for my family,

for the the work that I
do that is providing this,

this comfort to people.

This is important to me.

When you do that,
when you create that

that higher calling as it were,

it helps reset this whole
stress barometer to say, yeah,

this this matters to me.

And so then it's less
of a blow up moment.

So what are some ways that
you keep those moments in the

forefront so that you don't get
wrapped into the snowball of

stress on stress?

Yeah.

So, I actually have a
three step technique,

and this is this is what I call
my fear less stress formula.

And it it takes
thirty seconds to do.

And the first step is the tiger.

And the tiger is is named
that because our stress response is

really built for three minutes
of screaming terror through a

gun through a jungle, right,

being chased by one
of those tigers.

It's it's built for a
world we don't live in.

So every time we're
feeling stress,

our body believes that it's
a life and death situation.

It's a tiger charging
us, not an angry client,

not an I'm uncomfortable
and hot and sweaty,

not my email is overloading me.

Right? Like, this
is life and death.

So the first step
is going, wait.

This isn't a tiger.

And just acknowledging out loud,

this is not life and death
because our brain's natural

tendency is to catastrophize and
go into this like, hey, gosh.

If I don't get this, then this, then
this, then this, and this, and we spiral.

And so Again, in
recognizing that

it's not a tiger,

I do wanna give people that
three minutes of screaming

terror and allow
them to sit in it and

and go ahead,

go to those worst case
scenarios for three minutes.

But if you're still alive after
three minutes of screaming

terror, then all of that
energy that you feel,

you can use that differently
and you can point that into a

more productive path.

So the second step
is this transfer.

And that's where we're taking
all of that pent up energy and

we're going, wait.

Anxiety, stress, excitement,

anger, all of those are
high arousal states,

and they all produce a fairly similar
hormonal profiles in our body.

So our body is having
this experience.

And the only real difference
between an adventure and an

ordeal, a sweaty
time with an angry

customer and client versus a sweaty
time in a gym where I

just, you know,
triumphed over my PR,

the only difference is how
I'm interpreting what's

happening in my body.

And so that's the
transfer stage.

And one of the ways that I
teach people to sort of help

them transfer that energy
towards productivity and

towards, a less negative
outlook is by acting as if.

And what I mean by that
is if you're angry,

like you can tell really
quickly when somebody's angry

because they're kind of like
pulled into their body and

their shoulders are hunched and they've
got this like tightness in their face.

So if you're doing that,

you're actually sending a
signal to your body that this

high emotional state
you're in is a bad one.

So

in your example, Steven,
that you gave, you're hot,

you're sweaty, you're miserable,

you're going in and you're
just going to force yourself.

And I know this
sounds ridiculous,

but you're gonna open your body,

you're gonna throw
your shoulders back,

and you're going to smile.

And here's what that does.

Even if it's a fake smile,

when we even fake smile,

so we had people like hold
pencils between their mouth,

And it forces a grimace.

What it does is it sends signals
to the brain to say, oh, I'm happy.

Because most people think that
we smile because we're happy,

but we're actually
happy because we smile.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So we're getting this
somatic feedback,

this feedback from our body
signaling to our brain that

this high emotional state we're
in isn't necessarily a bad one,

and that's allowing us to
begin to transfer that energy.

And then the final step,

and then I promise I'll
shut up for a second.

The final step is
the trajectory.

That's where we take one small
action into the stressor.

So again, most people are
trying to avoid the stress,

but when we move into it,

we can get to the other side
faster with more resources and

in a better state.

So taking small actions
rather than inaction,

movement forward.

Okay. That's That's
where I'll stop.

Alright. Can I repeat that back?

Because I'm gonna make sure I
got it. So step one is tiger.

Like you're just saying
to yourself, hey,

this isn't gonna kill me.

Whatever it is. Right? Yep.

Step two is I gotta
change my physiology.

If I look like I'm
angry, I'm angry.

So I've got to open
up my body, smile.

Step three is do something,

take an action step towards
the stress, whatever that is.

Is that I'm paraphrasing?

No. You nailed it.
Tiger trans Directory.

You got it. Perfect.

Okay.

Yep.

I think what I like the most
about the tiger is, like,

if I'm saying, okay, this
isn't gonna kill you,

then I'm owning that.

When other people, you know,

if I'm venting to someone
and they're like, yeah, well,

is it that bad?

You know, Mary, you know,
it's not life for death.

You're you're just
selling boxes.

You know, then I start to
feel like, oh no, you didn't.

Absolutely. And Mary,
I'm going to add to that.

Like, this is the advice that
most people give to one another.

It's like, Oh, well
just calm down.

That's horrific advice
to give to someone. Yeah.

All the time too, which it
it's terrible for two reasons.

One is just mean. Right?
It's just plain mean.

But also, physiologically,

you cannot force yourself
to just calm down.

Right? You're in a
heightened state. You can't.

It's like you can't control
how fast your heart is beating.

You last time I talked to my adrenal
glands and I was like, hey, y'all.

It'd be great if you didn't
release adrenaline right now.

They didn't listen. You know?

So this this is sort of one of
those things that you can't control.

So telling somebody
to calm down or, hey,

it's not life and death,
not super helpful.

Right. Right.

But then I'm, you know, saying to
myself like, hey, Mary, calm down.

Like, this is this is the tiger.

You've got three minutes
and then no more more tiger.

I think there's something
really powerful in that

starts that process in a way
that you can actually do it.

Because, you know, I'll
I'll be honest, like,

in some of my own just kinda
counseling and as I've gone

through managing my own stress,
you know, they to start with,

like, the deep breathing, like,

that's almost going right
into that last step.

Right?

There's not enough
acknowledgment before that that

action step.

So you have to kind of walk
that walk a little bit in order

to get your own buy in.

You nailed it. You nailed it.

I actually call that process
inviting the tiger in for tea.

So invite that tiger in for tea.

Sit it down.

Spend some time.

Spend those three minutes of screaming
terror with it and get curious.

So curiosity and
fear can't coexist.

Like, there's literally no brain
mechanism that allows for fear

and curiosity to to coexist,

which is great because we can
use curiosity to kick us out of

that fear response.

And then I'll
challenge you, Mary,

to even even when you get
to that trajectory stage,

don't try and calm down.

Don't use that energy.

Right?

Olympic athletes breaking
world records at the

Olympics when their stress stress
and pressure are at their peak.

So we don't need to eliminate
that or try and calm down.

We just need to to transfer it and
recognize it's not gonna kill us.

So the not killing us
part, very important.

But trying to calm down at any
stage, I think, is overrated.

Oh, I like I really like that.

Say

Say it again.

What's the paraphrase it, Mary?

What like, when you
say you really like it,

what what do you like?

I I I like the idea that just
calming down for the sake of

calming down, overrated.

You know? I'm gonna I'm gonna
be harnessing my energy.

All my customers out
there, watch out.

You got a new energy
coming your way.

I love that, that gives
me the full body chill,

that makes me happy.

It's a great it's a great point
though because even, you know,

as recent as, you know,
a couple weeks ago,

I was getting into
some tough conversations with customers.

And, you know, I I definitely
can relate to that. Like, okay.

I'm feeling that emotion.
That means I really care.

And now all of a sudden,

I'm getting into the snappy
responses where I don't really

mean to be snarky or
short or, you know,

I I don't want I don't
necessarily want to give off

that impression, but I am
overwhelmed by, you know,

that heightened emotion that I'm
feeling where if I could

have just maybe identified that and
then harness that in a different way,

maybe I would have had a
more favorable response.

Yeah.

I love it.

But I will say, to your credit,

you're sitting in it and you're
having those difficult conversations.

You know, most people's tendencies
are to avoid the stress entirely,

and so it's a I'm not
gonna have that difficult

conversation or I'm
gonna I'm gonna do it,

but I'm gonna go
get a massage first,

or I'm gonna go do
this one x y and z.

And I'm just gonna mention this
other study that is one of my

favorites personally, looking at ninety
different workplace interventions.

So we're talking meditation,
breathing exercises, coaching,

massage was one of them.

I was really hopeful
massage would work.

But none of those interventions
actually helped reduce stress.

With

with one exception.

And I think I think
you all will love this.

The one thing that actually,

the one intervention that
actually helps to mitigate

stress is service to others.

Oh.

So so when you're in
stressed out moments

going, whew.

This really matters to me.

How do I use this
to serve others?

That is not only going to help
your clients, your customers,

it's going to help you as well.

And that's a really powerful
shift for us all to make,

to push that stress externally,

and and have the problem
be solved out here rather than

trying to just eliminate
it in ourselves.

Wow. Oh, jeez.

Have you ever seen
any examples of that?

Actually, so I just I just wrote a
piece for the Wall Street Journal on

this, and I'll I'll tell you
the story really quickly.

I lost my luggage, and I was
I was speaking to this very,

like, executive buttoned
up audience in Hawaii.

And I I have, like, flip
flops and a tank top.

This is not this is
not ideal. You know?

I'm really stressed out.

And I'm pacing, I'm
pacing at the front desk,

and the hotelier notices this.

And he he says, hey. Listen.
You know, I got you a car.

Go out to the shops, you're
gonna find something.

And I was like, Oh my
gosh, thank you so much.

I get down to the shops.

Don't know if you've
ever tried to find, like,

a suit of a non bathing
variety in Hawaii.

I was not having a
whole lot of luck.

And I I went into this,
like, fourth shop.

And this woman was like, look.

You're not going to
find what you need here,

but what you can do is
you can take my car.

It's a brand new
BMW convertible.

You're gonna drive forty miles,

and you're gonna find
some other shops,

they're gonna have
something for you.

It's like, I don't
even know your name.

She said, oh, I'll
I'll tell you back.

And I did. Like, I drove
that car forty miles.

I found my thing. I came
back. I'm in full on tears.

I'm like, why would you do this?

And she says, listen.

You know, I've been really
stressed out recently.

My daughter just moved
back to the continental US,

and I just hope that a
stranger might in her If

she found herself in a
similar situation to you,

I hope a stranger might
do something similar for her.

And I was like and I
get back to the hotel,

and I tell the hotelier,
and then he's full on tears.

His whole family from
the continental US to Hawaii,

and he was like, this proves
the people, the culture,

it was the right fit.

It made the whole difference
and he sent this whole box of

chocolates to me with this two
page handwritten note and I'm

going, What is happening here?

And it finally occurred to me.

It's like, oh, this is the
stress response in action.

And we talk all the
time about cortisol,

like the main stress hormone,

but the second main stress
hormone is oxytocin,

which if you've
heard of it before,

it's the cuddle hormone,
the togetherness hormone.

It's the hormone that
makes you want to connect.

And it helps us in times of
stress to reach out and ask for

help, but also to receive it.

And, and this is
just one of the many,

many powerful examples that
I have of people who are in

stress serving other people.

And I and I like
to think, you know,

they've also benefited from it.

So it's pretty cool. Nice.

That's amazing.

Isn't that cool?

Yeah.

That shop on the big island and that
hotel have gotten a lot of shout outs.

I'll bet. I'll bet. Yeah.

Felt like delivering an eleven out of
five star experience for your clients.

There you go.

Yeah.

So we did a podcast episode
a couple of weeks ago and we

talked about like in the
Sandler training world,

we talk a lot about how your
performance as a salesperson is

gonna reflect your identities.

Like how you see yourself,
how you view yourself,

all of those two things.

Over and given enough time,

your sales performance is gonna
reflect your view of yourself.

And so a couple of interesting
conversations spun off of that.

So I'll give you maybe two
or three different scenarios.

Here's the first one and not
just pulling it from my own

life, but also maybe
the lives of others.

I was a pretty mediocre sales
guy the first ten years in sales.

So from a talent standpoint,
from a talent standpoint,

you would go, Steven, if
you were really talented,

that would have shown up in the
entire decade that you were in sales.

It really didn't.

I mean, made about seventy five grand
a year for about ten straight years.

And then at some point,
life got stressful.

And in my life, it was
my wife quit her job,

we had another kid on the way.

And so all of a sudden,

I had to perform at a level
that I hadn't performed before.

And I got some really that's
when I became a client of

Sandler.

So I needed somebody,
that behavior step,

to really help me out.

Like, what the heck do I do
now? How do I get a lot better?

But that also is a very
similar conversation to one that I have

with salespeople all the time,

which is Hey, here's
what I've been making the

last couple of years.

And you're telling me I could
get up here and I don't see it.

And so there's this stress,

there's like the external
financial situation.

I need to make more
money and I can't.

And then you have the
internal belief system, which is, well,

is the kind of money
I've been making,

or this is the size company
we've been, or whatever it is.

And now all of a
sudden you go, hey,

You got a five million
dollars company.

You should be able to get
this to seven or eight.

And the business
owner's like, well,

we've never done that before.

Or the sales rep,
you're like, hey,

you've been selling a
million dollars a year,

but you should be selling
two million dollars a year.

And they're like, you know.

So talk to us about
that kind of stress,

which is your internal world
isn't lining up with the

external world or you need your internal
world to line up and it's not there.

Yeah.

I mean, there's there's I don't
even know where to begin on this.

If you look at the
traditional stress models,

what I'll say is they look
a lot like an inverse u.

And what it's describing there
is the amount of stress that

you have in your life on the x
axis versus your performance.

So, essentially, if you
have no stress in your life,

you don't really need much
performance and you don't have it.

But as the stress increases,

so too does your
performance to a point.

And then what the traditional
models will say is that it

starts to tank because now
it's it's too much stress.

I'm so overwhelmed.

Most people

Most people plateau at some
level in the in the middle range.

And they're like, this is
fine. This is comfortable.

And then to your point,
Steven, in your story,

then something happens.

And now I have to
perform differently.

And if If they're

smart, right, they find a coach.

They find external resources.

They they find these ways to
shift that internal mindset so

that they're not tanking
on the other side.

Because I don't believe
that anybody has to tank.

That's that's the old model.

That's that Yerkes Dodson curve.

My model and the sphere less
stress model suggest, no.

Listen.

We perform at our best under
peak pressure and stress if we

have the right mindset.

And so much of that is the story
that you're telling yourself.

There's so much research out
there on the placebo effect and

the power of the
stories that we tell.

And one of my favorite pieces of
research is looking at the housekeepers.

Have we talked about the
housekeeper study before?

I don't think I've heard it.

This is one of my favorites.

So a bunch of housekeepers
set into two different conditions.

And the first condition, the
housekeepers are told nothing.

In the second condition,

they're simply told that
when they're cleaning,

they're meeting the surgeon
general's requirement for exercise.

That's it. There's no
difference between the groups.

They all wear these nifty
nifty wristbands which track

exertion, heart rate,

all of that diet factored
out of the analysis.

But after four weeks' time,

there's a massive difference
between the two groups.

The group that is simply
told that they're meeting the

surgeon general's
requirement for exercise

Lower, lower weight,
lower blood pressure,

lower weight to hip ratio,
lower body mass index,

all of this massive shift.

And the only difference
was what they believed.

And that's wild to me. Right?

This this was not a mistake.

This was their belief
system shifted,

and they had
outcomes as a result.

And I think it is
so Underappreciated.

How often our stories well,

this is just how
how much I make.

This is just how
we've always done it.

There's no other way to do it.

Limit us.

So and and, you know,

I mentioned at the at the
start of this before we started

recording how often
that that will lead

to something that is often
referenced as learned helplessness.

We just accept our
fates as, well,

I I don't have any control over
this. This is just how it is.

And the thing about
learned helplessness,

when it was first studied,
it was done in the sixties.

It was coined in the sixties.

And there's been research in
the last five years updating

this model to show that this
actually isn't learned behaviour.

This is our default mode
when we believe that

something is outside
of our control,

Our brain just shuts down
and it just saves resources.

It's like, well, I can't
affect my my outcome there.

The reality is we have a lot more
control than we believe we do.

And so rather than trying
to control the outcome,

what we can do is take small
steps in what I would call

learned hopefulness
toward the trajectory,

toward the stressor,
into the stressor.

And so the example I'll give
you is if I if I ask you to

save a thousand dollars next
month and you saved nine

hundred and ninety nine of them,

Did you fail?

Yeah.

You are a dollar short
and a day late, sucker.

Yep.

That's the way our brains work.

Our brain is like, well,
I missed the outcome.

So I failed entirely. I might
as well just throw it all out.

No, dude.

You have nine hundred and
ninety nine more dollars than

you would have had.

So instead of getting stuck in
the binary, like, can't do it.

There's only one way to
do it and I have That

jump Everest in a
single leap to do it.

No. No. No. You're gonna
take this small tiny action.

You're going to adjust
from that action.

You're gonna continue
to take actions,

and it's going to move
you along a trajectory that is

ultimately going to serve
you because you're learning,

you're growing, you're
adjusting along the way.

But that action piece
is so important.

You

You can tell that Steven and I
are sales professionals held to

sales targets because
we're like, yes.

You're not getting your bonus.

Because because that
but but it's true.

I mean, let's even if I
played that out maybe, like,

on the scale in the
seat where I sit,

if my target is a hundred
million dollars for a region

and I only bring in
ninety nine million,

you could say, yes, she
didn't make her target.

But there's also that,
you know, however,

ninety nine million dollars
was brought into the region.

And without the effort,
without, you know,

the hustle in that
portion of the portfolio,

we wouldn't have that.

That would still be a win for
a manufacturer to have that.

So Unless we would still I
made a hundred million dollars worth

of equipment and you only
sold ninety nine of it.

Yeah.

And in that case,

yeah.

We enter into some dark days.

So we'll save that
for another time.

Bigger point here is like,

so often we set
these audacious like,

you're supposed to set big,
hairy, audacious goals.

Like, that's that's
part of, I don't know,

the the culture of sales.

Like, let's go for
those big things.

And often, that's the
gap that I think, Steven,

you were talking
about between, like,

this is the idealized what I
think we can do and where I am.

And that gap becomes so scary
and so big that we shut down

and we get into this space of
learned helplessness and we

only achieve this.

Right?

Rather than go Yeah, why
shouldn't I be able to sell

that nine hundred million?

Let's try.

And we might not quite make it,

we're gonna be so much further
along than we would have otherwise.

I think the other thing that you
said too that really grabbed me is,

because I think we use this
analogy all the time with

talking about an Everest, right?

Know, it's my Mount Everest,
it's my hardest thing,

it's my biggest challenge.

And I heard another podcast
that I listened to talk about

this idea of if that's
really your Everest,

treat it like you're
Mount Everest.

And what would you have to
do to go climb Mount Everest?

Well, you would have to, you
know, invest in some gear,

you'd have to invest
in some training,

you'd probably have
to do a few practices,

you'd probably have to ramp
up your practices so that you

could get to a tolerance level.

Like how often do we
just set maybe a really

high targeted goal, but then we
don't treat it Like, the you know,

it doesn't get the effort
behind it that maybe it needs.

And when you actually
put that hard

effort in and then
you achieve it,

that a sense of
accomplishment is just wild.

Right?

I love that. Yeah.
Exactly, Mary.

I think your point, you know,

if we're setting
those giant targets,

but then we're not changing any of
the behaviors that we do to get there.

Right?

Like,

Okay. Same outcome.

As yeah.

And then the part two of that is

not many people put a
goal down to say, like,

climb Mount Everest
two x, like, twice.

And when you were saying at the
top of the podcast, you know,

adding and adding and
adding and, you know,

we're beating stress by adding
more to our list, it's like, woah.

Like, pull that
back a little bit.

How about we, like, achieve
that goal that we set out for?

And then we look at what we add to
our plate and take on as a next.

If you're always
adding and adding,

all of a sudden everything
can't become an Everest.

Yeah, yeah.

And this reminds me of

the study that I mentioned
earlier about purpose and

meaning and how that
correlates highly to stress.

And it's so easy for us to
retrospectively look at this.

So, like, you know, in my
research, I ask people,

what is a project or an accomplishment
that you're most proud of?

And people can think about that.

And then I ask them to go
back to the middle of that project.

What was your stress level?
Right? On a scale of hundred.

And the results, I mean, are
exactly what you would expect.

Like, people were stressed
out of their gourds.

They were really stressed out
when they were doing their most

meaningful purposeful work.

And so I like to
remind people, like,

don't just think about
that in retrospect.

You know, as you're
climbing Everest,

you should be stressed.

That's that's a sign that
you're on the right track.

This is your stress response
is a feature. It's not a bug.

It is a feature of of
providing energy to

you when you need it the most as
you're striving for these big goals.

And I think that's a really
powerful shift to to have.

Totally.

Can I throw out
other deeply personal

scenarios where I probably
should just get a therapist,

but I'd rather talk
about it on the podcast?

Great idea. I can't wait
for him to get a therapist.

I know, it'd be life
changing for all of us.

I mean, had one of the so I
I became a client of Sandler.

My sales went up. Sales went
up. Like I was doing great.

The company that I worked
for, I said, hey, guys,

I wanna go straight commission.

Keep your salary, but
double my commission.

And so February of
two thousand eight,

I remember to the T, February
of two thousand and eight,

I was doing in home
residential sales.

I had an eighty percent
closing ratio that month,

Crushed it.

March first, I went
straight commission,

and I went o for the first
three weeks of March.

I struck out on
absolutely everything,

and it was my first month of
going straight commission,

and my paychecks were
zero, zero, and zero.

So

I was doing great.

And then I collect like,
I I'm in a slump. Right?

It's like baseball
or golf or whatever.

And the reason I share this is
because Mary has never had a slump.

So I don't know that
you can relate Mary,

but I have lots of personal
experience with failure.

So coach me up, Rebecca.

If you're talking to
me, if you're my boss,

if you're my manager, if
you're my friend, and I'm like,

I'm in a slump, I don't
know, what do I do?

How do you deal
with that stress?

Yeah. I mean, okay, great.

The first thing I'm gonna say
is great. That is fantastic.

You've noticed that you're
in a slump. Amazing.

Notice how that feels.
Notice the stress.

Why It feels like crap.

It does feel like crap. Why?
Why does it feel like crap?

What's the emotion
behind the emotion?

Really getting
into understanding

the value

of the stress.

So we don't feel like crap
because our shoelace comes untied.

Right?

We feel crap because
this is somehow tied to

my belief in my ability to
provide for my family or my

value as a human being or all
of the other things that we

that we put on the weight
of our ability to accomplish

certain things like Selling.

Okay. So let's get to
the value of it. Good.

Now let's divorce the value
of what we do from who we are.

You're not a less valuable human
being for not being able to sell.

Now we can still
go in fully in our

identity, like, I'm a
valuable human being,

and

I can sell.

Right?

I may be in a slump,

but I'm still a valuable human
being and I know how to sell.

So what that does is it it
it shifts the story a little bit

Instead of I'm in a slump,

it is

I am a valuable, really
great salesperson.

And

and I've just hit this little
this little bump in the road.

So I'm gonna shift my
trajectory a little bit.

I'm gonna try something new.

Right? I'm gonna try try
something a little bit new.

That might fail. Cool. Try
something a little bit new.

That might fail. Cool. Pivot.

We're gonna try all these tiny
little maneuvers until we get

that first sale and
like, oh, that worked.

Good. Let's continue that
action until that fails.

The the the thing that,

look, we're we're in a changing
environment constantly,

and people like to sell
at the same the same way

this that they always have been.

They've been successful this
way, so they don't wanna move.

And it's like, this
has worked in the past.

Great. It might not work now.

And for for people who
are like, well, I hate change.

Good. You're really gonna
hate extinction. No.

Is choose your hard
kind of situation.

So I think to summarize
what I just said,

your value as a human
is not tied to your

value to sell.

That's that's
first and foremost.

That allows you to put your
shoulders back and say,

this is just a slump.

This is not a slump of who
I am, just in what I do.

So now I have to
adjust what I do.

And then you're trying these small
little actions, little changes,

little little switch ups that
is going to put you on a new

trajectory that Ultimately,

you're gonna find
something that works.

And I would say the third
thing, reach out for help.

Like, this is the moment
that stress is calling to you

to say, my oxytocin
is at a all time high.

I need some help.

What's working for
you, person over there?

What's working for you? How are
you approaching the situation?

Because I think, again,

we get really concerned about
what others are going to think

about us if we ask for help.

And the reality is your
stress is my stress.

My stress is your stress.

We may not be having the exact same
experience at the exact same time.

We've all been there.

It

may be slightly different
at exact moment,

but we know what
that feels like.

My eyes got super wide when you
said that because I think one

of my biggest stress drivers is

my perception of what
people think of me.

And especially in a sales role,

I everyone to like me.

Like I want people to be
excited when I walk through the

door, when I send
an email with news.

Most of the time it's
hopefully good news,

but we're gonna have to have to
have conversations sometimes,

maybe I can't meet a shipment
or a deadline or something.

And whenever I have
to deliver that

news, almost have to kind
of like pep talk myself.

Like, it's okay.

Like you're still gonna have
a working relationship after

this, but you have to rip this

bandaid off, like you
have to deliver this.

And that is, I can
definitely relate to

stress being driven by perception
of what people think of you.

That's that's a big one.

I think it's relevant right
now because there were a lot of

salespeople at the end of
twenty twenty four that felt

really good about themselves.

And halfway through
twenty twenty five,

they don't feel good
about themselves anymore.

They're like, holy crap,
I'm getting my butt kicked.

And maybe it's tariffs or maybe
it's the economy or maybe the

Fed's keeping interest rates too
high. I mean, who knows?

But there's these external
circumstances and you're like,

I felt great about
myself six months ago.

Wow, have I gotten
my butt kicked?

So I

wanna return to the learned
helplessness for just a second

because I think the the
question that I wanna ask

requires this setup,

if you'll allow me to just do one
more nerdy experimental thing.

Yeah.

So, so the original research was

done on dogs, and they had
these two different conditions.

Right?

The the dogs were put into these
cages that were electrified.

And so they they were receiving
these I know. It's awful.

They were receiving
these electric shocks.

And the one group of
dogs had a a panel,

and if they press
it with their nose,

the shocks would turn off.

And the other group of
dogs, when they pressed the panel,

nothing happened.

And so they learned they
had no control over their environment.

Oh.

So then we take both sets of dogs and
put them into a second experiment.

And in this experiment,
the floor once again is

electrified, but they
have a really low barrier.

And all they have to do is jump
over the barrier to the other

side, and they'll be safe.

So immediately, the dogs
who had had some control,

who had been able to turn off
the shocks before, make the jump.

And the dogs who had no control,

who when they pressed the
panel before continued to have

shocks, never made the attempt,

They just laid down and
accepted the shocks.

So what you're
describing, Steven,

I feel like this is my question
to you and to to all of your

listeners is where are
you just accepting Shocks.

Where are you just saying,
this is just how it is. Right?

This is outside of my control.

I, you know, I can't
control tariffs.

I can't control interest rates.

I guess, you know,
this is just how it is.

Whereas Whereas, you know,
if you take this action

in learned hopefulness,
maybe trying a jump,

trying a little something
different is going to lead to a

whole new outcome, a
whole new environment.

Instead of dogs, let's
talk about salespeople.

Here's a question. How
does this transfer?

Let me give you an example.

At my company, we had
electricians, had plumbers,

we had heating and
air service techs.

And I had a group of
electricians that were all

roughly bringing in twenty
thousand dollars a month in in

revenue out of the van.

So

that was pretty much the bare minimum
from a profitability standpoint.

Any less than that,

you'd have to fire them
because you're losing money.

So we put them all
through training.

They're all going through
the exact same training,

exact same trainer,
exact same content.

One of those technicians went
from twenty thousand a month to

about forty thousand
a month to gosh.

I mean, in year three,

he hit eight hundred thousand
for the year as an electrician,

which is unheard of.

Right?

And then there was
a group that I mean,

there was a couple of them
in that group that were right

still back at twenty
thousand a month,

did absolutely
nothing different.

So as a business
owner, as a manager,

I

like the idea of shocking
people into action.

It it probably is
not HR appropriate.

So what how do you alright.

So part of this is how do I
manage internally my own stress?

But part of this is how do you
help other people go, hey, man.

You can change
your circumstances.

Oh.

Yeah.

I mean, I I think I
think first and foremost,

it's modeling that
behavior yourself.

Right? Humans are
incredibly contagious.

And when we surround
ourselves with this is again,

this is another study.

I'm happy to provide you all
with citations if it would be

helpful for this.

But, when we surround
ourselves with high performers,

our productivity and our
performance increases by about

twenty five percent.

Like, that's that's awesome.

So be that person,
model that behavior,

surround your your performers
with other high performers.

We often focus so much on
the bell curve on, like,

bringing the people on the
lower end up to the average.

And what we don't do is
focus on the above the curve people

and, like, continue to pull
people in that direction.

So I'd say, you know,

keep your focus on those high
performers and keep encouraging them.

And what's going to happen
is the other people will come

along for the ride.

So so rather than saying, man,

you're you're really
wagging behind here.

How do we get you up to speed?
Say, man, you're taking off.

What are you doing?

Let's let's let's see how we
can can propel you even further.

You're making eight hundred?
Let's double it next year.

People are going to get curious.

If if I'm that low performer,

if I'm still sitting
and I'm going, my god.

At some point, I'm gonna
go, okay. Oh, okay.

What are you how?

Missing out here.

Again, instead of I
think sometimes there's

this Yeah.

This attachment to, like,

rejection and failure that that
we have in those moments where

it's like, I'm the remedial kid.

Right?

I'm the one that's
fallen behind,

and now I have to ask for help.

And it feels it just
contributes to that story of

I'm just not making the cut.

I'm a failure rather than,

allowing them to to see what's
being done on the high end and

and motivate themselves
to catch up to speed.

There's a line that I use
often about playing sick.

And I know you've heard
this before, Steven,

but for the benefit of Mary
and your and your listeners,

I'm a professional
speaker these days.

When I was eight, I had
the opportunity to, like,

with my four h club, go to
states, and I practiced it up,

and I practiced,
and I practiced.

And the day of, I never showed
up because it simply felt too

dangerous to, like, go all
into something if I might

fail, if I might look
bad, if I might, you know,

have all of these
things attached to me.

So my guess is those people
that are not performing at

their peak are probably playing
sick a little bit because

there's some fear in them
that says, if I go all in,

if I do all of the things and
I practice everything that

Stevens taught me and
I still don't cut it.

What does that say about me?

So I would free people of
the, hey. You're playing sick.

Like, go all in. Nobody's
judging you. See what happens.

Alright. I got
one last scenario.

I got all these questions,
Mary. Is that okay?

I just keep I I if it seems
like I've fallen asleep over

here, just know that I'm
so engaged and, like,

the number of times
I've gotten chills,

I'm gonna need a blanket.

Like, this is I'm so excited.
I wanna go sell something.

All right.

So the scenario we just talked
about was like salespeople who,

in terms of how they felt
about themselves at the end of twenty

twenty four, they're
like, I'm doing great.

But then in twenty twenty five,
they're performance tanks.

So they're like, Hey, I feel
great about myself, or I did,

now my performance struggles.

I also, in coaching salespeople,

sometimes that's
reversed, meaning,

Hey, I'm hitting my
numbers, but holy crap,

do I feel like I have
imposter syndrome?

Like my personal life's tanking.

And this happened to me.

I got divorced, like I
was in twenty nineteen,

I got separated and I got
divorced in twenty twenty.

And so like you have all
this personal stuff going on.

My sales performance tanked
and I had to go hire a a

performance psychologist.

I don't know if you know Milt
Louder who works with the

Clemson football team.

I'm like, Milt, you gotta teach me you
gotta train me like I'm a pro golfer.

Like, I'm a mental head case.

My personal life's over here,
but I gotta freaking sell.

Like, get me back in the
game. And Milt was great.

But so you feel down here,
maybe you're still performing,

but sooner or later
that performance,

if you feel like you're tanking,

sooner or later your
performance is gonna tank.

So what do you say to those group
of people who the stress is,

if people only knew what was
going on the rest of my life,

they would go, Oh my God,
what's wrong with you?

But I've got to put up this
facade to keep selling and

that's, all right, I'm done.

But help me out, coach
me up, coach me up.

Well, actually I'd
say three things.

First, do whatever Milt said.
That's the first thing off.

Yeah.

Second, I'll say recognize
that everybody else,

the people that
you're selling to

are going through
this exact same thing.

So be human.

Like, be vulnerable, be human.

You don't have to
hide everything.

And third, and this is going to
sound contradictory and it it's not.

I'll come back to
it. Third, act as if.

Act as if you are
the best salesperson on the planet.

Act as if

life is perfectly cruising
along and knowing in the

background that
it's not, It's okay.

Like, having that stress,
having that anxiety,

that never goes
away, by the way.

Like I'll I'll take
it into my world

for a sec for an example.

I do keynote speeches
all over the world.

Every time I step on
stage, I'm nervous.

Every single time.

That anxiety, that stress,
it's going to be there.

The stress of our lives, like,

I'm going through a divorce
right now. It's stressful.

Like, I just bought a new house.

It's stress I got so much
stress happening right now.

And

and I'm still outselling,
and I'm still outperforming,

and I'm doing all of that
because I can attach it to

meaning and purpose.

So that's the third
piece. Fourth piece. Gosh.

I've lost count now.

So acting as if I am this
thing that I want to become.

And and that's different than
fake it till you make it.

We're not faking things.

We're acting as
if we already are.

It's a subtle difference,

but it's really
important to our brains.

Gosh. I lost my train
of thought there.

Yeah, I'll end there because I
think that's the best that I can do

in this scenario.

I'm curious what
Milt said to you,

if there was any other
advice that I'm missing here.

At Sandler, we call it
our success triangle,

which is behavior
attitude technique, right?

And we put attitude at the
top because we say, Hey,

your belief system is gonna
impact everything else.

But the question is,

what do you do if your
belief system sucks?

And the answer to that
is always behavior.

And if there's one thing
I'm taking away from the podcast

with you, whether it's
like, hey, it's not a tiger,

it's not gonna kill you,
then you smile, right?

And you kind of release
your physiology to say, Hey,

it's gonna be okay.

And then step three
was go do something.

Think that's my takeaway from today
is it really does come down to action.

Like just whatever
that action is,

and it doesn't have
to be monumental,

but you gotta get started.

Here's what Milt made me do.

I mean, it sound this
sounds so juvenile.

Milt charged me hundreds of dollars
per hour for this, by the way,

so I'm about to save you
guys several thousand bucks.

But Milt had me go through my
day and write down everything I

did in the day.

And I was using Outlook.

And if I had white
space in my day,

I had to go back and fill it in.

What did I do during that time?

And the takeaway was,
I was getting home at

you know, five, six,
seven o'clock at night.

Maybe I ate dinner
on the way home.

Maybe dinner when I got home.

Like, I'm plopping down
in front of the couch.

I'm probably having a beer.

Maybe I'm drinking a glass
of wine, whatever it is,

having a cocktail.

I stay up late watching Netflix.

I go to bed at, like,
eleven thirty midnight,

and I wake up at seven
am and I'm kind of tired.

I didn't sleep great.
Maybe that was the alcohol.

Maybe I just didn't
go to bed soon.

Maybe I was doom
scrolling on my phone.

I get to the office
at like eight am.

I'm just really
starting to wake up.

Then I've got all these
fires I'm putting out, right?

I was managing a pretty large
heating and air sales team that year.

And so I'm putting out
fires and Milt's like, Hey,

we're going to back this up.

And so we rode
out to the minute,

my morning routine where I
woke up at five twenty am,

I got dressed for the gym, I
made my coffee, I ate a banana.

I got in the car
at five fifty am,

I drove to Orangetheory.

I got to Orangetheory
at six zero five.

I got ready for Orangetheory,

like throw my clothes
in the locker,

fill up my water
bottle, blah, blah.

Class started at six fifteen,
ended at seven fifteen.

I took a shower at Orangetheory.

I got out of shower
at seven thirty.

I got out the
office at eight am.

Like I had it scripted
down to the minute.

And then from eight to nine am,

walked in and I shut my
door and I did like the,

we called it nine before nine,

the nine most important things
I had to get done that day.

I picked up the phone, I
made the calls, I sent the emails,

I did the thing.

And then at nine am, I
started putting out fires.

And sounds super juvenile
to go, man,

it's like adulthood with training
wheels or something like that.

But that's literally what Milt did
for me and got me back on track.

And I would

say twenty

twenty two, twenty twenty
three, twenty twenty four,

best years of my life.

Hands down, best years of my But

it is that action.

And maybe you need a coach.

In this case, I just
needed Milt to yell at me.

Go.

You actually touched on on
something that I neglected,

and I have to come back
because I remember the train of thought

that I lost that I
jumped off of there.

Accountability. You you you
have an accountability partner.

Like, that is huge. That's huge.

And that can be somebody you
pay hundreds of dollars to.

I actually recommend that
because if it doesn't hurt if

it doesn't hurt, you
probably won't do it.

The money hurt.

I can tell you
those checks, like,

got tired of writing checks to Milt
to just tell me to get up

at five twenty in the morning
and get like, alright, man.

I got it.

But but it worked. Right?
I mean, it really did.

Yeah.

Create that friction for
yourself so that, like,

it is really painful if you
don't do the behavior that you

want that you want
yourself to be doing.

Increasing friction on
things you don't want,

decreasing friction
on things you do want.

And the the just to come back
and jump back on the train that

I jumped off of before
with impostor thinking.

And I I do call it impostor
thinking rather impostor

impostor syndrome because I
don't wanna create a syndrome

out of something that
I think everybody has.

That's the point I want.

Every freaking body
has impostor thoughts.

If you don't have them
You're lying to yourself.

That's

That's, like everybody has them.

When we recognize that,

it's not just me who thinks
that I'm not an expert in this.

Like, y'all, today I was
on a podcast earlier.

They were asking me about my
own research, and I could not,

for the life of me,
remember my own protocol.

And I was like, hang on.

I have to look that
up. So embarrassing.

I was like all of the
impostor thoughts were

like Like, wow.

You're not even a researcher.

You don't even remember your
own pro it was so embarrassing.

And then I was like, yeah.

But, I mean, do you remember
what you had for breakfast?

Probably not.

This is fine. This
is being human.

And I think the more we can
be vulnerable about it and

recognize, like, you're having
the same thoughts that I am.

It's it's okay.

It gives us permission to move
forward into that space without

having to be perfect.

Totally.

I I I tend not to
go as personal as

Steven does, but I can absolutely
relate to so much of this.

And, I mean, I remember
when I had, like,

personal tragedy strike me,

and it was all unfolding while
I was in a trade show booth

and, like, I'm
learning information.

And now I know that the house
I go home to isn't gonna be the

house that I'm living in
anymore, but I'm at work, right?

And like I can't wear that
at work in that moment.

And I remember a coworker
said, are you okay?

And I said, I'm
not. I'm not okay.

And it's gonna be okay,
but I am not okay.

And she was so great and still a
really good friend, but she's like,

You wanna take twenty minutes and
not be in this booth right now?

I was like, I really do. Yeah.

I I really don't. I just need
to go, like, address my tiger.

It's really the short
version of that.

And so and it was great.

And, you know, it
it was it was nice.

It it kinda ties in so much of
what we've talked about here.

Like, she she, by giving
me that twenty minutes,

gave me some service that
allowed me to go kinda collect

myself and be
ready to, you know,

address what was about to
go down in my personal life.

But then it also just gave me
that space to sort of say like,

okay, you know, this
is gonna be tough,

but we still have to be
here at work right now.

We still have to do we have to
get this thing done well first.

And,

yeah, it's it's it's
a it's an amazing

meld of themes when you can just
bring it all back to being human.

And I love that advice
more than anything.

Stress management
is being human.

Yeah.

It's recognizing our own humanity
and recognizing it in others too.

Think that's really what it is.

It's amazing.

This is normal. This is the
feature, not a bug. Yep.

Hey, I've got before we wrap up,

I've got a story I wanna
share about how I met Rebecca Heitz.

Can I can I tell you the story?

You know, I can't believe
we haven't even asked that yet.

Yeah. That's that's
a great question.

Alright.

So I've got five
kids as as you know,

and the older four
are daughters.

And I started out a few
years ago and I'm like, hey.

I want my kids to
be entrepreneurs.

I want them to hustle.

You know, it's just

So

my oldest daughter, Abigail,

started a photography business
when she was fourteen.

And so she had to
write a business plan.

She had to do a SWAT analysis.

She had to like, I mean,

we we had to have a marketing plan
with a loss leader and an upsell.

Like, we had it down pat.

And one of the things we did
was we went around town and

interviewed very successful
women in business,

like all kinds of
different women.

And Rebecca,

I think we I think I introduced
you to Abigail back then,

which is I mean, Abigail's twenty
four, so this is, like, ten years ago.

And Yeah.

Simultaneously at work, I
had a sales training client.

It was a company that did a
lot of sales training for me.

One of their VPs called me.

He said, Hey, we got a
problem. Was like, Okay.

He goes, Your sales training
works great for men,

doesn't work for women.

He was being a little
facetious, but he was like,

Our turnover rate with women
that we're trying to be,

it's heating and air.

It's a male dominated industry.

We're bringing women in and as
hard as we work to bring them in,

they're leaving us in droves and we
can't figure out what the issue is.

So I was like, alright.

I'll

What

do you want me to do?

So I flew around the country
and rode on sales calls with

women to see, like,
what's the difference.

Right?

Is it what's there between a
man going on a sales call and a

woman going on a sales call?

And here's the difference.

Not once in twenty five years
of me being in sales have

I ever been hit on
during a sales call.

It just never happened.

Now I know, Mary, that
probably shocks you.

I mean, just how could I not?

I mean, that charm
and that wit, come on.

Men always wait till the end
of the sales call to hit on me.

I think it's what but
the takeaway but anyway,

So

here so I would I didn't I mean,

I was dumbfounded at
how pervasive it was.

And a lot times women would
rather quit their job than have

to call on a company where
their contact at that company

was harassing them.

They'd just be like, I'll just
quit, go find another job.

Simultaneously, there was a lawsuit not
related to this company but a separate

lawsuit where the woman sued
the company that she worked for

a hostile work environment because
the customer was hitting on her.

The company's defense was,
Well, we can't control them.

They're the customer.

If it was another
employee hitting on her,

we could control that,

but we can't control
what the customers do.

But the court ruled in favor
of the woman that because the

company had just
basically said, Hey,

you're on your own and not
supported or not intervened,

not done anything,

that they had allowed a hostile
work environment to persist.

And so anyway, all that,

I was again, dumbfounded.

So I'm like, all of
a sudden, like, man,

I got four daughters.

We've gotta do a
little brainstorming.

How do you prepare your
daughters to enter a workplace

where this might be
an issue for them.

Here's what we did.

Said, all we're going to put on a
conference because I'm a sales guy.

We're to put on a conference.

Sandler's going to sponsor it,

and I'm gonna have my
daughter fourteen well,

she was a little older.

She was probably just
a few years later,

like seventeen or
eighteen at this point.

So she was a photographer.

She had a photography business
going, and we're like, alright.

We'll co sponsor this.

Her photography business,
my sales training business.

We'll get some people to come.

We'll bring in a speaker.

How do you deal with sexual
harassment as a sales rep, right?

Which is kind of a niche topic.

So we went and we we reserved a
room that sat thirty five people.

And I was like, alright.

So I'm gonna have lunch catered,

and I'll find a speaker.

And

we announced the event.

My coworker now, Emily
Jepis, helped me put this on.

She was selling
advertising at the time,

and she was a Sandler client.

So she was like, hey.

I'll I'll help with this.

So we put on within the, I mean,

we started selling tickets
like sixty days in advance.

The first day we sold
thirty five tickets,

we sold out the whole room.

So I go back to the the place.

I was like, the venue. I'm
like, I need a bigger room.

They're like, well, we got
a room that seats fifty.

And so we increased
our tickets to fifty.

We sold all those.

Then we had long story short,

we sold like two twenty
five tickets to this event,

and it was all women.

And so then we needed
now I'm feeling pressure.

Like, I gotta bring
in a big name speaker.

And Rebecca's name got
given to me by, like,

twenty five different people.

They're like, we'll just get
Rebecca to come give a talk.

So So we did, and I brought
all my daughters. My mom came.

My sister came. And who
my mom's not in sales.

My sister's not in sales. But
it was really interesting.

And it was 'll give
you the topic, Rebecca.

I don't know if you remember,
but it was basically fight,

flight, or freeze.

Like what happens?

You're on a sales call,

you're ready for the
professional side of things,

then you get hit on,
how do you handle that?

Fascinating talk.

So anyway, that's and so now
Rebecca gave a a talk a few

months ago, big auditorium
downtown Greenville.

I bring my daughters.
I'm like, hey.

We're gonna go hear Rebecca
again. Like, they love it.

And it's great information.
It's just understanding, hey.

You're about to be
in a high pressure,

high stress situation.

How do you handle it?

And so

you don't wanna wait till you're
in that situation to figure it out.

You wanna have that
game plan ahead of time.

So Rebecca, feel
free to comment.

But that was how I met
Doctor. Rebecca Ice.

I'm so glad you told that
story because, you know,

I a lot of my research has
been on the freeze response.

And I I initially, I was I
was just going to say, like,

if you're a woman listening,

this is something you need
to know about, but really, like,

any gender needs
to know about this.

This is not women's
responsibility.

This is all of us to recognize
what a freeze response looks

like because we talk all the
time about fight or flight.

Like, we know what those are.

But a freeze response is
like the grin and bear it.

It's the

and, and so frequently,

women get caught in this trap
and then they blame themselves

and they go back and they
create more stress for

themselves because they're
like, why didn't I do this?

Why is x y z?

And so my my hope in talking
more about the freeze

response is that more women
will recognize it in themselves,

and more men will become
advocates and and help and

recognize, like,
this is a legitimate,

terrifying moment for a lot of
women where they are stuck in

their own physiology
is betraying them and,

and help them out
of that situation.

So, yeah, please do follow-up
on that on that research.

I've got a TEDx talk out
there if people are interested in in

watching more on that.

I appreciate that.

Thanks for the shout
out and the reminder.

Gosh, Steven, that's been a decade
since I've done that research.

And, it brings it right back.

I I really appreciate that.

Still really important.

Somehow in that decade,
I've gotten a lot older,

and you look exactly the same.

So this is this is I'm I'm
gonna file a complaint.

Filter.

I don't know who to
file the complaint with,

but I'd like to complain.

Yeah, go for it.

I'm sure somebody will
pay attention to it.

Mary, all right,

so you got a TEDx talk out
there about fight or flight.

You've got a book, give us
a quick rundown of the book.

I've got two books. The
first book is Instinct.

It came out in twenty twenty
one about the seven instincts

that hold us back as humans because
our brain is stuck in the stone age.

And so things like variety and,

diversity are really
scary because, oh my gosh,

those people, terrifying.

They will serve us today
in a globalized world.

So, that's the first book.

And the new book
came out yesterday.

It's called Springboard.

It's right here.

It is literally all of the things
that we've been talking about today,

so how to transform stress
to work for you rather than

fighting against it.

Yeah, really excited about
that. Thanks for the shout out.

And if people you're
you're a keynote speaker.

So if somebody said, hey.

I want you to come speak,
rebecca heiss dot com.

And heiss is h e I s s.
Right? Rebecca heiss dot com.

Nailed it. Yep. Or you can
find me on any of the socials.

Reach out to me. I will
happily, respond to you.

It's just doctor Rebeccaheiss on Insta
and Facebook and all other places.

Hashtag all the socials. Right?

Hi, Olive.

I mean, the bane of my
existence, but I feel like,

you know, everybody
has to do it.

So it's a weird it's a weird
time. It's a weird time for us.

Well, we are not
on the socials yet,

but we do have an email address.

So if you want to expand on
anything that we talked about

today, or if you need help
getting in touch with Doctor.

Rebecca Heiss, we'd be
happy to connect you.

You can email us
at hvac underscore

full underscore blast

at train technologies dot com.

That's h v a c underscore
full underscore

blast at train
technologies dot com.

And that is our
spiel for the day.

Thank you all for joining us.

It's always just a treat to meet
one of Stephen's many friends.

So Stephen,

thanks for being the best
recruiter for guests that we

could have ever imagined.

And thank you so much
Rebecca for joining us.

Thank you, this has
been a real treat.

Alright. Thanks. Bye.

Bye. Thank you.
Great to see you.