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Daniel De Jesús from Think Orange shares on the importance of establishing trust out of the gate in your mentor relationship, how to turn relational and emotional tension into trust-building conversations, and how boundaries naturally create trust. Check our show notes for a free resource from LeadSmall on the 3 Hurts.
Show Notes
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WELCOME
You Can Mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others.
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SHOW NOTES
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor. Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Caroline, and I'm here again with our friend, Daniel De Jesus.
Speaker 2:Hey. Good to be back, Cash.
Speaker 1:Oh, good. I'm glad to have you. Daniel, you were on our podcast again. We kinda said this last time you were here, but
Speaker 2:at the
Speaker 1:very beginning of You Can Mentor.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And then you're coming back for a little series on relationships and what it means to build trust and be a good mentor in all things. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thank you for having me. I I love this. I there's a lot like we mentioned last time, there's a lot of, I think, truths and things that I've gleaned in just, like, my years of kids ministry and working with really smart people. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And re recognizing that there's so much, like, that I've learned in the church world and, like, leading volunteers that completely translates to the 1 on 1 mentor relationship. And so, yeah, that's it's fun to be able to to share them with people.
Speaker 1:I love that. Well, we're glad you're here. And, for everybody who hasn't listened to a podcast with Daniel yet, you work for Orange. So will you just kind of give us a little synopsis again of what that is?
Speaker 2:Sure. Yeah. Orange has, been around for a long time, and, they are basically a a ministry that, their sort of big idea is that 2 combined influences are or make a bigger impact than 2 separate influences. Right? And so it's they're really passionate about taking the home, the influence of the home and the influence of the church and saying, okay.
Speaker 2:Those are 2 great influences, but combining them is actually gonna be gonna have the greatest impact in the life of the next generation. And so that's kind of their philosophy, their strategy, and they write tons of, like, curriculum and resources and books and put on events and things like that for primarily, like, church leaders, or just leaders in the church. Yeah. Cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Today, Today, we're gonna be kinda talking about what it means to build trust. We talk about trust a lot on this podcast, but it's really important, and we can never talk about trust enough. And so we're gonna be talking about what it looks like to build trust between mentor and mentee and in conversation specifically, and how to respect your mentee and how to navigate certain conversations and how to maintain trust. Kind of a host of different perspectives.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Like, we really want to learn how to be a safe person for our mentee. Right? Like, we are entering this relationship for the first time, and we know that we want them to open up.
Speaker 2:Right? We want them to feel like they can be themselves. We want them to share with us and be honest and vulnerable. But the truth is, just like we say all the time, I'm sure a 1000000 times, is that, like, trust needs to be earned. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? So, like, what are some specific things that we can do to earn the trust of our kiddo?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? That's really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Cool. Well, let's just jump in.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Let's start with this. What does it mean to be a safe person? If you were to define that, how would you define being a safe person?
Speaker 2:I think a safe person is someone who you know that no matter what you say, no matter who you are, how you act, your behavior, that you are fully, accepted and fully loved, fully known. I think when you give children that safe place to, like, belong and they feel known, they yeah. Like, they they feel like you are you are safe. You know? I was just thinking about this as I was driving here that I think that one of the most powerful things or phrases that we can say to a kid is, that doesn't change the way that I see you.
Speaker 2:You know? And I think that just that just that phrase, you know, to be able to speak that over their lives constantly because they will need constant reassurance that the things that they say, the things that they do aren't going to break, you know, your relationship or cause you to pull away. They need to be reminded that that, your love is unconditional for them. You know? And That's really good.
Speaker 2:The things that they who they are and what they say and what they do isn't gonna change the way that you see them. I think that makes you a safe person. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's really good. So for most of our mentoring relationships, obviously there is a meeting point. So there is a start, there is a beginning and that trust isn't earned automatically. I mean, how do you even start to build trust? Like, even from that initial meeting with your mentee, how do you kinda start that process?
Speaker 2:I think the first thing that you have to think about is the things that are inevitable and and unavoidable, which is, like, tension. Right? So there is just in our normal relationships, in our families, in our friend groups as adults, like, there are tensions that exist when you put a group of people together who come from different backgrounds, who have different beliefs, or who come from different family systems, or just have different experiences. There's just tensions that exist there. And that we as adults, like, we just kinda learn to navigate them.
Speaker 2:Like, we know there may be some questions that get asked that we have to navigate together. There's gonna be maybe some conflicts. There's gonna be some fears that are expressed. Right? Tension is like a natural part of relationship, and what we as mentors have an opportunity to do is not figure out how we can avoid them, but actually lean into them.
Speaker 2:And I think leaning into tension is one of the best ways that you can, if not the primary way, to to earn trust. You know? So I think about just the questions that when when a first time mentor and mentee are meeting, oh, my gosh. There's so many questions swirling around. I know for me, like, when I was meeting Ashton for the first time, he was in 3rd grade.
Speaker 2:You know, I was having all these, like, oh my gosh. Like, what's it gonna be like, and what kind of questions is he gonna ask me? And, also, is he gonna think that I am cool? And am am I gonna be boring to him? And I know he's really into Pokemon, but, like, I don't even know how to spell Pokemon.
Speaker 2:Like, what are we gonna talk about? Yeah. Right? So and I come from, like, this loud Hispanic family in, like, inner city Chicago, and he's, like, you know, in a 2 parent home in the suburbs of Dallas, and he's the only child. You know?
Speaker 2:There's differences. Like, we're always walking into our, I think, mentee mentor relationship knowing that there's a lot of difference, and there's just tension that's created when you know that that's that's there. Mhmm. But like I said before, instead of knowing knowing that they're inevitable is important, And so deciding to lean into them as opposed to, try to avoid them. Like, leaning into them, managing them, I think is one of the best things that we can How
Speaker 1:do you specifically lean in to those tensions without without either making your mentee feel like they're being drilled with questions or without just making it awkward. Because I think it can be really easy to be like, so tell me about this. And then you have no idea because you maybe have never experienced. Maybe you grew up totally differently than them. And so how do you like lean into those differences well?
Speaker 1:Because there's good leaning in and then
Speaker 2:there's not. Well, when I think it's funny because I think kids, they are fully aware of the tension that might be exist between the especially, like, in the first meeting or the first couple of meetings. Like, they're fully aware. As adults, when we meet people the first time, like, there's tensions that we're navigating kind of privately, and we can all kind of, like, dance around them. And we know we just know how to, like, work our way or maneuver around those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:But kids are kids don't really have that kind of social awareness yet. Right? And so they're gonna they're totally comfortable sitting in, like, the awkward silence with you if you've got nothing to say. They're just gonna sit there or or they're gonna, like, call you out if you if they said something that you said was in genuine. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Like, they're so we can't, we can't pretend like it's not there because they're so they're so aware of it. So I think, like, I mean, at least with the first meeting, I think it's so important to just, like, try to keep it as light as possible, You know, keep it light, and I think it's important to laugh together or at least to try to laugh together. I think what people don't remember oftentimes is that these tensions are a really, really good thing. Yeah. Tension this in the book Leads Small, which is, like, kind of what we've been kind of unpacking in the series, it talks about how tension is actually the platform for, that or the platform that gives you the opportunity to demonstrate that you're a safe person.
Speaker 2:So when we're talking about, like, trying to be a safe person for our kid and earning their trust, tension is actually is the thing that gives you the opportunity to do that. Like, you can prove to them that you're a safe person by the way that you're leaning into these these different tensions. Right?
Speaker 1:How do you go about, like, leading your kid into those conversations without, either oversharing yourself or, like, or even, like, being dishonest? Like, I know that sounds so silly, but it's just so easy when you're talking with a kid and you want them to say something to say something that's, like, a half truth or say something that is not completely true. And so how do you guard against that yourself and also make sure that you are not oversharing just to get something out of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's so hard.
Speaker 2:It is hard. And honestly, it's also like a I think it's a personality thing too. Because I think some mentors don't struggle with this as much as maybe others do. Yeah. For me, personally, I know, like, as I mean, for all your Enneagram fans out there, like, I'm a 2.
Speaker 2:I just, you know, at my core, just want to be liked and loved and just, you know and so for me, I do have to check my heart. When I'm in you know, anytime I'm talking to my mentee and he's telling me a personal story, my main goal is to always try to find common ground. Right? Mhmm. I mean and that's that's an important thing, especially, like, in the first initial meetings, like, when you're getting to know each other.
Speaker 2:Finding common ground is a really great just way to, you know, help build that relationship. They know that they can see you as just a real person. And that that continues. And in our relationship, there's been so many times where he has maybe shared a story or an experience with me that, you know, he's having as a high schooler that takes me back to when I was a high schooler, and I maybe had the same experience. And maybe it wasn't, you know, maybe it wasn't like I was making the best choices.
Speaker 2:Maybe I wasn't making the best choices. And I have to, I really have to to think about whether the story that I share is, is actually beneficial to our relationship. And I have to so, basically, I have to ask myself, like, okay. Am I sharing this story because, a, I want him to like me or because I want, to get his advice or because I want to get him to laugh? Right?
Speaker 2:Like, if those are the reasons why I'm sharing a personal story of mine, then reconsider.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Mhmm. I have for I have friends. I have other friends. I can hire a therapist.
Speaker 2:You know? Like, that's not what our mentee is for. But I will say that that the, there is a, what's the word? Gosh. We are tempted to to share things because we're just trying to build that connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But
Speaker 2:I do think that we have to ask ourselves those questions before, yeah, before we share a personal story, asking yourself, how will it benefit them? What am I trying to accomplish? And why why am I sharing this really? It's really good. You know?
Speaker 1:That's such a hard thing, especially if you're a mentee is experience something or struggling with something. And it's really hard to not want to just be like, oh my gosh. When I was a junior in high school, this is this and this happened to me too. And those things aren't wrong because you did experience them. But there there is also a way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And there's also a way to phrase those things in such a way that doesn't explicitly lay out everything
Speaker 2:that
Speaker 1:you did. And something that I've experienced just, I remember one time I shared too much and this girl was in she was in college, but she was like, well, you turned out good. Like, you turned out okay. And you were you did that. And I would in that moment, I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:No. Like, that is not why I shared that with you. Like, I don't want you to have to experience everything that I did,
Speaker 2:and I don't want you
Speaker 1:to make those choices. And like, that is the temptation of the mentee. If you end up sharing everything to be like, well, you turned out okay. And yeah. Sure.
Speaker 1:They and they might too, but also we don't want our mentees too.
Speaker 2:Well no. Yeah. It's like, you have no. It's like, oh, only by God's grace did I turn out okay. Like, that was the Lord.
Speaker 2:Like, that was no other reason. And Yeah. You shouldn't it's kinda like that thing where when people sometimes people hear your testimony. Right? Like, if you're talking to other believers or or new believers and, like, you tell your testimony.
Speaker 2:And and if your testimony is hard or it's dark or whatever, like, I've heard so many people tell me, like, oh, I wish I had a testimony like that. And I'm like, no. You don't like, praise the lord that, like, he's protected you from Yeah. A lot of a lot of things. Yeah.
Speaker 2:For sure. But, anyway, yeah, I, I think we we want to lead them to value these things, like acceptance and honesty. Right? And we have to model them. So we there is a measure.
Speaker 2:There is a, you know, there's a a point where we can share honestly. We can share stories from our own life. Like, that does make us human. That does forge a connection between us. But you just you have to use discernment.
Speaker 2:I think that's the big thing. It's just discerning how much to share. Yeah. Just like knowing when too far is too far. And I think asking those questions, like, how does this benefit them?
Speaker 2:And, like, why why am I sharing this? Like, is a good starting point. You know?
Speaker 1:So what I'm kinda putting on the spot, but what are some ways that you can take your personal story and share it in a way that is appropriate? So, like, either some phrases or ways to kind of explain, certain things, especially if you are if you know that your child is wanting to share something. Because we can all tell when our kid, like, wants to start having those conversations with us. But what are some ways to phrase certain aspects of your life, like your story in a way that is appropriate, but also still, is still vulnerable and is still honest and still invites them to share as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think I'm literally just thinking about this at the top of my head, but I think about what are the things that anybody could relate to.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. You
Speaker 2:know, what what are the things in my story that, people have experienced before regardless if they may not have experienced that that specific thing, but they have felt the way that I felt. And so I think focusing on emotion maybe is important to say. So I don't have to give you the details of, like, my trauma and from my child in my family or whatever. But I can tell you, man, when I was a kid, I felt lonely, and I felt completely misunderstood. And, or when it comes to other people that may have hurt us or whatever, like, you may not have to get into the hurt, but you can say they made some poor choices, you know, or I made some poor choices, and this is where, you know and then it made me feel this way.
Speaker 2:You know? So maybe focusing in on on just, like, the emotion pieces of it. Like, those are things that they will connect to. They don't have to know the details of of your life Yeah. To be able to empathize or to be able to, like, believe you that, like, you've been through some things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I one one other one that I would add is, like, I really wanted people to like me, And so I did anything that I could to make sure that I had friends. Or in order to not feel lonely, I really did anything to make sure that I had friends around. And that invites them in enough without exposing inappropriately
Speaker 2:anything. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:If there are things for you I made
Speaker 2:poor choices.
Speaker 1:Probably not a good idea to share with a 6 year old or
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah. I think yeah. It's all age appropriate. Like, you can really discern, like, what based on their life experience and what you think they may have seen or heard.
Speaker 2:You know, you can you can discern, like, what's what's appropriate or not.
Speaker 1:Why is it important for mentors to also be vulnerable?
Speaker 2:I think because I think I shared this on my very first podcast when I was telling my story and because it's something that I learned from my mentor growing up, you don't ever want your mentee to think that you have it all together or that you've arrived Yeah. In your faith journey, but that you you want to model that you are still on a journey and that you have not figured everything out. And I think I said this that you you actually do a disservice to your kid if you are trying to be something or portray this version of yourself that that you're not. And so, again, like, that doesn't mean that you share everything and that, like, you're so vulnerable that, you know, and you're you're sharing again, like, your mentee is not like your friend or your therapist. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But the biggest thing is, like I said, you want them to know that you're still learning things on this journey and that they will continue to learn things. So if they're frustrated because maybe they keep making the same mistakes or because they haven't figured something out yet, they're still wrestling with doubts or the same question or whatever, you can come back and say, yes. Like, I struggle with the same thing sometimes, or I'm still I still ask these particular questions or, you know, because you want them to know that that faith is a lifelong journey and a process.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's not this magical age where it's like the Lord just reveals all the answers. You know what I mean? So
Speaker 1:it's like yes. Amen. We can end the podcast there. Amen. And we're done.
Speaker 2:That's so funny. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, obviously, time passes. Like, kids get older. We get older. Maturity happens. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But there's there's often I won't say always, but there's often a difference between the maturity of a 6 year old and then a 12 year old or a 15 year old or a 20 year old. And so how do you kind of, lead alongside that maturity process as a mentor, and really respect that without trying to make a kid more mature than he should be at a certain age? Or just kinda how do you, as a mentor, walk very closely alongside where they're at maturity wise?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think it's it's it's super helpful to kind of frame these ideas around, like, these tensions that I was talking about before. So earlier, when we talk about leaning in to or sorry, when we start talking about, helping them to to value acceptance, to lead them toward acceptance, like, that's those are there's relational tensions that exist until, they feel like they can trust you. Right? And then next, there are intellectual tensions that exist when there are questions that you guys are navigating together as as a mentor mentee relationship.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, like you said, as they grow, they change and their questions become their questions change. And the way that we help them navigate those questions is, is super important because I think our first sort of go to is to answer all of their questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And to be formulating your response as
Speaker 2:they're asking As they're talking as opposed to, like, listening and, like, active listening.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Or or, like, yeah, asking open ended questions to get them to, like, go a little bit deeper. Mhmm. Oh, we're fixers, especially guys. Right? Like, we're big fixers.
Speaker 2:And so to if we hear a hard question like a like, why did God rest on the 7th day? Like, just like why? Like, why was or why was the world created in 7 days? We want to immediately just, like, start spouting off everything that we might know about, you know, about that subject, whatever it might be. But I would love for us to think more about, like, what's really going on in this kid's heart?
Speaker 2:Like, what is the root behind the question? Like, what are what are they really asking? Like, is there is there fear or is there anxiety or is there something rooted in that question that we can help draw out as opposed to trying to just answer it immediately? There's a really great quote in that book, in Lead Small, that says, what if God is actually doing something bigger in their hearts that you don't know about? And what if God's plan isn't to make you feel assured?
Speaker 2:You know? Because that in the at the end of the day, when we are answering questions, like, on the spot and just, like, without thinking or just trying to give them all the answers, I think it's kind of about us. It can kind of be rooted in pride a little bit. I think it's important to take more care and consideration of, like, maybe not answering their questions right away, but but asking them deeper questions and then, like, being willing to find out the answers together because they are on a they're on a trajectory. They're on a faith journey, and they're not gonna you could give a full on amazing theologically sound answer.
Speaker 2:But if they're 10, there's only so much of that that they actually can absorb and also care about. You know what I mean? Like, most of the time, especially with kids, like, you can give them fairly straight straight and or simple answers, and they'll be pretty satisfied. Yes. I think we have to go back to, like, again, like, what's our motive here, and why are we here?
Speaker 2:Like, what is the goal of this relationship? Right? I think a lot about, you know, being a kid's pastor and training small group leaders and volunteers over the last several years. And there's always this inevitably, there's a question about curriculum. Right?
Speaker 2:About, like, what we're teaching the kids. And without fail, adults will look at it and just be like, oh, man. This just isn't connecting with me. Or, man, this is just, like, not deep enough. Like, I really wanna go deep with my 4th grader.
Speaker 2:And, like, I just, like, really want them to understand, like and I'm looking at them, and I'm going, I love your heart, but this is not about you. This is not about you getting something deep and and helpful for your own faith and and for your own theology. Like, so when I talk about, like, respecting their process, like, respect where they are in their age and their stage right now, and don't try to move too fast just because you want to grow or because you want affirmation in what you know, you know, but keeping that that perspective on where they are and actually what they need and what they need is not always your answer. What they need is just maybe they just need to know that you're a safe person to be able to process questions with, and that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? And I'm not saying, like, don't answer any questions. I think there are questions that you can answer. Mhmm. And there are questions that that can wait, and there are questions that you can open up the bible or whatever and, like, do research together, you know, and make it a make it a thing that you guys can do together.
Speaker 1:Right. And it's, and it's not to say that you're like 5th grader, can't be asking the super deep questions. It's just a matter of like, what is appropriate for them and where, where they are. Because if you just start, if you totally skip over what they're screaming at you, by the way, they're acting of like, maybe they just need you to play basketball and talk about Jesus while you're playing basketball. But if you totally look over that and all you want to do is have these really deep conversations, you're missing as a mentor.
Speaker 1:We miss we miss that safety of them like this. They're screaming, like, just play with me. And, like, let's we can talk about Jesus then. But, when we miss that, we miss the opportunity to really be a safe person for them. I mean, when you see this, like, it totally makes sense.
Speaker 1:Even, like, when you talk about, like, attachment in kids, I mean, we've we've had a whole pod podcast on that of, like, you like, just the awareness of a child's needs. And as a mentor, it looks different because they're not a parent, but our mentees have needs for relationship. And if we're not meeting that, if we're not meeting those relational needs and just wanting to get something out of it, we're not doing, we're not respecting their maturity and we're not respecting where they're at. I did wanna ask you, this this because this idea doesn't contradict, but how does it play alongside the idea of calling them up versus because we want like, that's what we all want as mentors. We want our kids to go deeper, to go further, to succeed, to be a man of God or a woman of God.
Speaker 1:And so how do we kind of play along that idea of calling them up by also respecting where they're at?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's really good. I think there's something to be said about speaking the truth in love for sure. And and and we we need to do that for sure. But there is like a there's a rub.
Speaker 2:There's I think one of the most maybe practical things that we can do is actually sit down and write out some guidelines of, like, when my kid asks a hard question or a deep question or if I want to go deeper with my kid, how do I speak the truth in love without without compromising where they are in their in their journey, you know. Or how do I speak the truth in love and also respect where they are? And it helps with just getting to know them. Like, when you know who your kid this takes time, but when you know them, you know what they can handle and what they can't. I wouldn't tell you to call a kid up in your second meeting with them.
Speaker 2:Right? Because they're like, who are you? Like, you know what I mean? So that whole idea of of speaking the truth in love and calling them up and not out, you can't do that until you've really earned some trust, you know, until there's some relational equity in the bank, so to speak. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:That's good. I think you can do it more and more as you're aware of how much trust is being built. And the way that you know that trust is being built, I think, is when they're opening up to you, You know? So it's kind of like a, you know, it's like a back and forth, like a dance. Yes.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? So you can't That's good. Yeah. You can't try to dive into too quickly.
Speaker 1:Like, how would you respond to a child who may share something difficult? And I mean, if you've experienced that same thing, how would you respond? And if you haven't experienced that thing, how do you respond?
Speaker 2:Yeah. There's so like kind of going back to the tension, the last one is like emotional tension. Right? So we talked about relational and intellectual, and then so there is emotional tension that happens once trust is established, and there are things talked about in the relationship that are hard. You know?
Speaker 2:Now you're invested. You love this kid. You don't wanna say anything bad happened to them. And, yeah, if they're if they start to share something really difficult, I think one of the best things I've ever learned when you first establish a relationship and you're talking to their parents, you establish actually some boundaries and some expectations on the forefront. And you tell a parent, here are here are some things that if if we if if certain things get brought up, here's what I'm going to do.
Speaker 2:Here's my plan of action. What do you think about it? So I think that there are 3 things. There are 3 we call them the 3 hurts. And so if a kid is, being hurt, if they're hurting others, or if they're hurting themselves, Those are three things that we are required to tell someone else about.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so so I mean, you establish that in the beginning. You make sure a parent knows that. Mhmm. But again, like, now the relationship is growing and flourishing, and now your kid is sharing things.
Speaker 2:You remind them or you tell them right in that moment before they tell you. Like, if they're if your kid is like, hey. I wanna tell you something. Can you keep it a secret? You and right off the bat say, but I want you to know that if your secret involves you being hurt, you hurting someone else, or you hurting yourself, I have to tell somebody about it.
Speaker 2:I can't that's a secret that I can't keep.
Speaker 1:Because I love you.
Speaker 2:Because I love you. Exactly. I I think I just heard my friend, Brett, on another podcast say that he heard a teacher say, that before a kid tells you a secret, you say, do you trust me to do what's best for you? Like, asking him that question. Like, do you trust me to do what's best for you after you tell me this?
Speaker 2:And Yeah. You know, like, those are just safeguards for you, for them. And it's hard. Like, it's so hard because you want you do wanna be that that person. And you
Speaker 1:want them to tell you.
Speaker 2:You want them to tell you. Yes.
Speaker 1:Of course. If you have a mentee that's like, hey. I need to tell you something, but you need to promise not to tell anybody. It is hard in that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's hard. It's it's a that's attention. Like, our job is to live between that tension of, like, respecting confidentiality Mhmm. And knowing when you have to get someone else involved.
Speaker 2:And so and there's again, like, I think sometimes people get freaked out or scared, and they're just like, well, what else is there? Like, what else could it but, oh my gosh. Kids kids get freaked out freaked out and worked up about so many things in their little lives that are don't fall within the categories of those those 3 hurts.
Speaker 1:You know what
Speaker 2:I mean?
Speaker 1:Really do seem as the the biggest deal to them.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so it's okay for them to
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Like, if that's what's really difficult for them, like, that's what's really difficult for them
Speaker 2:right now. My friend, Ashley, was just speaking at a at a youth retreat, and she was she just told the whole staff that this boy was bawling at during, like, the worship time. And, you know, and they're talking about surrender or confession or something like that, and he's just bawling. And so, of course, like, the first thing that as we you know, as leaders, we're all like, oh, man. He's dealing with something, like, probably pretty heavy.
Speaker 2:He's probably keeping some things, you know, hidden or whatever. It ended up being that, like, he broke the window shade of his dad's expensive car. And for weeks, he had been sitting on the other side of the car because he didn't want his dad to know. But he's just been carrying this around for weeks. And it was just like eating him up inside and like and he's in 8th grade.
Speaker 2:Like, that is what he was
Speaker 1:Really concerned about.
Speaker 2:Really just concerned about. So, you know, I think it's important to keep perspective of, like, again, where are they in their little walk, you know, in their journey? How old are they, you know, in their phase? And don't yeah. Let's not assume the worst necessarily.
Speaker 2:You know, there's a lot of things that they can share with us.
Speaker 1:How do you respond? Whether it's something like a broken window shade or something more serious. How do you respond by maintaining that safety for them? And then we kinda talked about maintaining that for you by just establishing boundaries. And I really think the biggest one is just not having secrets.
Speaker 1:Like, how do you go about responding and maintaining that safety so that they continue to share or feel okay about sharing with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think it's important to avoid trying to fix anything. It's it's important to to first, like, say, man, that was so brave. Like, just to, like, honor their courage and to say, like, that was so hard for you to share, and I'm so proud of you. That took a lot of guts.
Speaker 2:And then yeah. And and also, like, not taking sides, not not blaming, you know, not not immediately, like, whatever the situation might be. Like, maybe it was like, yeah. I, you know, I, you know, this I passed a note to a girl in class and was talking about her, and, you know, so I feel really bad. And then they they found the note, and now I'm now I have detention.
Speaker 2:You know, like, maybe that's is the situation, you know, you're not immediately going in and dissecting it with them. Like, well, you know, that girl did say something mean about you, and so you did have a the right to say something. You know what I mean? Like, just like entering into the drama with them necessarily, but really just yeah. Just staying out of it, like, focusing in on them and their heart, like, honoring their courage and just and then just, like, listening.
Speaker 2:Like, not being so quick to talk and to fix.
Speaker 1:And not
Speaker 2:But just making. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, keeping a straight face.
Speaker 2:Like, for sure, that's a way to lead them in in grace. Right? And to yeah. For sure. And and just to listen more, just to be like, man, that that sound that sounds really hard.
Speaker 2:Wow. Wow. Thank you for for telling me. I I can't imagine what that feels like. You know?
Speaker 2:And just, like, being with them. Like, I don't think that we're with our kids enough. Yeah. I think we sometimes spend too much time, like, focused on trying to say the right things to help them. Leaning into the Holy Spirit is so is so key and very easy to forget.
Speaker 2:In the times that I have felt led by the Holy Spirit the most is when I'm praying. I may not have the right words to say in the moment. Like, maybe he is sharing something with me, and I'm literally like, I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1:Your mind just goes blank.
Speaker 2:Might actually be like, I don't know. Like, I don't know what to say to that. But, you know, I think that's awesome. Like, I really do think that that's okay, that we need to be more comfortable with saying I don't know to our mentee. But what's so funny is that then when I pray for him or if I'm just like, you know what?
Speaker 2:Let's just pray. Like, let's just seek the Lord right now. Like, let's just ask him, you know, for help in this situation. When I start praying, I start saying things that I didn't think of. Like, that's how I know it's not me.
Speaker 2:Like, there are things that there's wisdom. You know? There's, like, this holy discernment and this wisdom that comes out of our prayer and that our words that, that you know are not ours. You know? And I always I've been in that situation so many times where we finish praying, and I'm like, well, that was cool.
Speaker 2:I didn't even know that I knew all those words or things. You know? But that is such a simple, practical thing. Like, let's stop and pray together when we are being when we're sharing hard things, you know? And instead of leaning in on our own stories first or our own, you know, experiences that we feel like could help them, like, just stopping and saying, like, hey, let's seek the Lord real quick about this.
Speaker 2:And that'll kind of right size that'll right size expectations. It'll help your heart get in the right place before you start sharing. Leading.
Speaker 1:Like you're
Speaker 2:That's leading them.
Speaker 1:We talked about secrets and just the the idea of, like, just not having them because we just shouldn't have secrets. But what would you say are some other good boundaries or expectations to set up? How do you go about setting them up and maintaining, again, maintaining you as a safe person for that kid?
Speaker 2:I think the first really easy thing to do so look at look look at the context in which you're mentoring. And then so whether you are mentoring with 4 Runner or with Big Brothers Big Sisters or at your church, you have, like, a you have, like, a mentor boss. Right? Like, you have I'm sure you have someone who's helping you through the relationship or navigating or matching or whatever. And I'm pretty sure they probably have already some boundaries, and some expectations and things set up guidelines set up that, that you can refer to.
Speaker 2:So if you don't know what those are, I'm a 100% sure that you should have gotten them before you became a mentor. Right? So looking at those and making sure that you know what those are, and if you don't if you don't have those and I think some easy ones to think about are, okay, what is appropriate and inappropriate touch? Right? Are we going to stick to side hugs and fist bumps and not do front hugs or, like, no lap sitting?
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Like, for real, like, writing them down and being, like, these are my these are my guidelines to keep myself safe and my mentee safe. So I think touch is a good one. I think knowing what and in the same way, in the same sort of same other side of the same coin is like knowing what healthy affection looks like. Right?
Speaker 2:That we all in ministry, we always say that affection needs to be observable and interruptible. And then language, like, what is the kind of language that I will use with my mentee? And what's the kind of language that will be tolerated with him with me and establishing that? Then obviously, like, communication with parents. Like, I believe there always needs to be an open line of communication with a parent, a, in the beginning to sit down and go over these guidelines and boundaries and expectations that you've set for this relationship, making sure that they know what they are.
Speaker 2:But then over the course of the relationship, there is an open line of, like, I'm texting mom when he gets in the car and we're on our way to the movies. And then I'll text mom when we get to the movies, and I'm texting mom when we're on our way back, you know, because it's just it's keeping that priority in place of, like, I respect you as the parent. I'm I honor you as a parent. I'm not a substitute parent, and I'm not their friend. I'm here to be just another caring adult in your child's life.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And they need to know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. When we have these boundaries and when we are texting mom, they may ask, like, why why do we have to stop and text mom? Well, Well, because like your mom wants to know where you are, and I wanna make sure that she knows where you are and that you're safe with me. And when when they start hearing that over and over again, or like, I think we've shared it before, but one of, there's like a mentor mentee pairing and, the mentee the mentor waited for the mentee to get inside before he drove off. And, like, that mentee was like, oh, that person cares about me.
Speaker 1:They just waited for me to go inside. But, like, that was a boundary and that was an expectation of like mentors, making sure that mentee is safe from the time they start meeting to the time they finish. Every time they pick them up to the time they drop them off. Those things over time, especially will open up your kid to believe and to accept and to understand. Oh, my mentor really does love me and does care about me.
Speaker 1:And that will open up the door for the deeper conversation
Speaker 2:and all those things. It's all connected. Yeah. Like, all of it is at the end of the day, all of it builds trust. It earns trust.
Speaker 2:It it proves to them that you are someone who is the real deal Yes. And that you're not gonna leave them, that your love for them is unconditional.
Speaker 1:It's really good.
Speaker 2:You know? And it's gonna be awkward in the very beginning because, like, bound sometimes bound some of the boundaries feel limiting, right, to the relationship or you're afraid that they're gonna, you know, they're gonna think that you're not on their side. But at the end of the day, yeah, it's it's for their good, and and it does build a deeper sense of bond and and trust between the 2 of you. We're not gonna do this perfectly. You know?
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, like, I have overshared with Ashton. I totally have, and I have not always kept mom in the loop. You know? I think it's easy to hear these things and be like, man, there are mentors out there who are just, like, doing it perfectly, and we're all not doing it perfectly. Like, we're we're messing up.
Speaker 2:So just, you know, just know that these are principles that that are important to know but to give yourself some grace because it's totally a learning process too for you as a mentor.
Speaker 1:In the middle of our podcast, we mentioned the 3 hurts. So if, a child is being hurt, if they are hurting others, or if they're hurting themselves, those are 3 really difficult things to hear and have a mentor share a mentee share with you. But Daniel sent us a free download, like, a conversation guide if you have a child that shares any of those three things. Those will be in our show notes, and I think that's just a really good resource to look over, and to also just kinda prepare for in case you were to ever have a child, whether it's your mentee or another child in your sphere of influence to share any of that stuff with you. So make sure you check that out.
Speaker 1:Share it with people that you know as well that are mentoring because I think it could be a really, really, really good resource. We love you guys, and we will see you next week for another episode of the You Can Mentor partners.