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Stacey Flaster and Dori Goldman are two ladies obsessed with cults and true crime. Join them as they take us into the depths of some of the most notorious cults, crimes, and killers that the world has ever known. They consume content and ask deep dark questions that only a certified expert can answer... enter Dr. John Mayer. Dr. John is an internationally known Forensic Psychologist and expert on violent behavior and crime prevention, with 35 years of experience consulting to law enforcement and testifying in hundreds of court cases as an expert witness. He is the "Real Deal" and will help Stacey and Dori get to the bottom of of their curious criminal minds.
00:00:00:05 - 00:00:03:04
Stacey
Candy.
00:00:03:06 - 00:00:07:17
Speaker 1
A podcast about cults, crimes and killers.
00:00:07:17 - 00:00:13:01
Unknown
Oh. They.
00:00:13:01 - 00:00:16:04
Stacey
Today we're taking a closer look at Teal Swan,
00:00:16:23 - 00:00:25:14
Stacey
a spiritual influencer who calls herself a healer, but who's been accused of leading something that looks a lot like a cult.
00:00:25:16 - 00:00:41:16
Dori
The teachings, especially around suicide, have sparked outrage. And her inner circle is anything but ordinary. The docu series The Deep End gives us an unprecedented view into her world.
00:00:41:18 - 00:00:49:11
Stacey
We're going to unpack how the series portrays her, how she crafts her image, and why so many people are drawn in.
00:00:49:13 - 00:01:00:22
Dori
And we'll talk about the psychology of control, the red flags of manipulation, and what this story tells us about belief and vulnerability.
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Stacey
This is the deep end.
00:01:04:12 - 00:01:14:07
Speaker 1
Outside my window. It's only raining.
00:01:14:09 - 00:01:21:22
Speaker 1
When the wind blows in. I feel pain.
00:01:21:24 - 00:01:27:00
Unknown
And I don't need no doctors.
00:01:27:02 - 00:01:47:17
Speaker 1
Maybe I'm not sick. My body's been lined up. I've broken up cells in every.
00:01:51:04 - 00:01:55:05
Speaker 1
May.
00:01:55:05 - 00:02:06:00
Stacey
Okay. Dory. Yeah. So this was your pick. I want to hear some initial thoughts from you on Teal Swan, who I had never heard of, until you brought her up.
00:02:06:00 - 00:02:12:06
Stacey
And I just want to hear some initial things that you took away from it. So that we can get into it.
00:02:12:08 - 00:02:49:18
Dori
Yeah. So I had never heard about her either. Except for our mutual friend Margaret had said years ago. Oh, my gosh, you would love this documentary about teal Swan. And I forgot about it. I was like, okay, whatever. And then we were all going to do this podcast about manifestation, correct? Cause per our last episode, we talked a little bit about it and, the doctor had never really like, heard of it.
00:02:49:24 - 00:02:54:24
Dori
So I started going through like a research manifestation,
00:02:54:24 - 00:03:20:22
Dori
you know, deep dive and found this YouTube video where, she was really plugging her book, but there were a good 22 minutes where she talked about, manifesting and the fact that Teal Swan has some controversial, you know, views on manifestation. So I was like, wait, Teal Swan?
00:03:20:22 - 00:03:57:19
Dori
So that's why I found this documentary. And personally, I'm glad that we are doing this because I found the whole thing fascinating. We're going to get into it initially, from the moment that this woman, Teal Swan, is getting her hair dyed by one of her inner circle members to the blatant narcissism and overall control of all of these people, I.
00:03:57:20 - 00:04:02:19
Dori
Stacy, I was hooked from beginning to end.
00:04:02:21 - 00:04:27:21
Stacey
You know, it's it's interesting. We're finding a lot more of these people who claim to be, you know, she she she goes all over the place. I'm not the savior of this, but yet I need to approve of everything. It's just sort of hypocritical. Like when it suits me, it works out. You know, she claims this man, Blake, who she had a year long relationship with as a, you know, in a couple relationship.
00:04:27:21 - 00:04:32:11
Stacey
And then when they broke up, they continued living together despite her having
00:04:32:11 - 00:04:46:07
Stacey
five marriages. So, you know, and and then she has a child as well. Feels kind of strange to have this guy hanging around, but she said he was her family. He's her family.
00:04:46:07 - 00:05:06:04
Stacey
So she has this inner circle of people that become the people that take care of her. You need to help me. You need to make sure my image is good. You need to do this in this, in this. So I found it interesting that she was so confident and so arrogant about what she believed. But yet why was she so afraid?
00:05:06:06 - 00:05:07:15
Stacey
Yeah. How was she so brave?
00:05:07:17 - 00:05:53:12
Dori
Well, basically so. So, Teal Swan is this woman who I guess has been out there like, on, YouTube, and she goes around to, you know, do these like, live audience, you know, performances. Well, it is a performance, but it's a really like, is a healer, you know, so she found that through, some therapy. She thinks that she was abused, as a young girl and is now trying to help others.
00:05:53:14 - 00:06:19:00
Dori
Kind of like, well, one get through their past, where she really like self-diagnosis. A lot of these people having, child trauma when that is very up in the air, there is, there is no proof of that. But that's kind of like what she is telling everybody to get through the trauma and to kind of, like, live in your own life.
00:06:19:02 - 00:06:49:06
Dori
And part of that is about, these people that, that, that seek her out are people on the edge, like they are suicidal. They are very unhappy with their lives. And she has become a guru to them. And she charges like, you know, maybe it's more now like $5,000 to visit her and take part in these sessions where supposedly she is going to help heal them and make them feel better,
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Speaker 3
Our world is facing some incredible challenges. And what I love about Teal Swan is she gets right to the heart of the matter.
00:07:02:06 - 00:07:09:09
Speaker 4
I feel like she was there for me. Like I have almost all of her books. And I've seen, like, a lot of her videos, I take notes on.
00:07:09:09 - 00:07:26:16
Speaker 5
Everything that Stevie drove three hours starting 1 a.m. that flew three hours. The airplane landed about 20 minutes before we got here. So.
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Speaker 6
Like, it's so straightforward. She lays it all out. Everything we're doing in our family is by the book, following exactly what she says. And it works.
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Speaker 7
She helped my grandma heal. Like, now my little sister is brought into it. The commission to, like, heal us all.
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Dori
she is not a she.
00:07:48:06 - 00:07:53:03
Dori
She's not a no, she's no training. Doctor's going to have a lot to say about that.
00:07:53:03 - 00:08:12:16
Dori
And it's, it's it's hard to watch. It's infuriating to watch. But it's also fascinating because all these people think that she, it is like the, the like a, like a cult leader, like a demigod. She has all the answers. It's, it's it's gross.
00:08:12:18 - 00:08:24:04
Stacey
It is. And and what I don't like and what makes me feel very uncomfortable is when somebody comes in and they're very vulnerable, and she asks them a question about their life and they can't really answer it, and she just sort of.
00:08:24:04 - 00:08:34:02
Stacey
Like pokes at them and, you know, and you know, these people that have these that, that are these cult leaders, first of all, they're always attractive as Doctor John said.
00:08:34:02 - 00:08:41:17
Stacey
But here we have this woman who's very beautiful. People are attracted to her, and she sort of sets them up. And there was that guy
00:08:41:17 - 00:08:42:09
Stacey
Amir
00:08:42:09 - 00:08:49:15
Stacey
He admitted he was attracted to her. And then she goes up just like, you know, he's attracted to me and he doesn't know. And then he's not in touch with it.
00:08:49:15 - 00:08:51:14
Stacey
just felt like he was being exploited.
00:08:51:14 - 00:08:59:01
Stacey
And meanwhile she is the biggest phony biting her nails, you know, I mean, hiding in the, you know, hiding away.
00:08:59:08 - 00:09:00:00
Stacey
And that's
00:09:00:00 - 00:09:03:10
Stacey
when, you know, Blake's wife,
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Stacey
was it was like the Whoopi Goldberg, like she was the mother.
00:09:07:09 - 00:09:11:02
Stacey
She was Amir's mother coming through.
00:09:11:02 - 00:09:21:14
Stacey
Julianna. She was sort of the conduit or the whatever for the mother to come through, and everyone just believes it and accepts it.
00:09:24:00 - 00:09:28:17
Speaker 2
What we're going to be doing is what I call channeling.
00:09:28:19 - 00:09:52:10
Speaker 3
You're using your body as a vessel for specific energy. You can do with people that are living. You can do is people are dead. You can do with anything. So if I bring in your dead mother, that's actually your dead mother. You guys, I'm working literally with her thought form. It's an incredibly dangerous process. It's also one of the most powerful tools that has ever existed.
00:09:53:21 - 00:09:59:18
Speaker 2
She'll ask her to. She will choose with her free will to volunteer in the near to your mother's full name.
00:09:59:20 - 00:10:04:08
Speaker 1
To you, with your free will. Choose the consciousness of talent. Bajwa.
00:10:04:08 - 00:10:07:11
Speaker 2
Kind of.
00:10:09:10 - 00:10:12:03
Speaker 1
Hates my really want.
00:10:15:14 - 00:10:20:10
Speaker 2
I for him, and I like that condition.
00:10:23:07 - 00:10:27:02
Speaker 1
You are a.
00:10:27:04 - 00:10:50:04
Speaker 2
It also guilty and full of shame because of that, you feel like you're stuck anywhere. If. Where are you stuck? I don't know, it's just so kind of. It's just so it's like.
00:10:50:06 - 00:10:52:11
Speaker 2
She hasn't completely crossed.
00:10:52:11 - 00:10:54:15
Speaker 2
So sorry.
00:10:54:17 - 00:10:57:15
Speaker 1
So I love you so much.
00:10:57:17 - 00:11:04:16
Speaker 2
You think about whether there's anything you feel like you need to say. Release you.
00:11:05:03 - 00:11:15:09
Speaker 1
Have. You can go. You go, you.
00:11:15:11 - 00:11:18:14
Speaker 1
Love you.
00:11:18:16 - 00:11:21:14
Speaker 2
She went.
00:11:21:14 - 00:11:44:02
Stacey
And, it upsets me because, again, these vulnerable people that are some are suicidal, some come in and they say, I don't know if I should live or die. And then she says something flippant and very matter of fact. Well, what do you say? It's just this arrogant, entitled bullshit. And and you know, whether or not she helps people or whether or not they think she's helping them.
00:11:44:06 - 00:12:05:17
Stacey
Still, it's unhealthy. And I wish these people would get called out. I really do, you know, I did enjoy watching it. I mean, I did enjoy it because it's fascinating to watch these people sort of, you know, believe her. And this was the documentary. Was she the person who, asked it to be filmed?
00:12:05:17 - 00:12:09:09
Dori
So I don't know if she asked for it, but she knew she was a fool.
00:12:09:09 - 00:12:09:20
Stacey
I mean, she.
00:12:09:20 - 00:12:37:11
Dori
Knew she let the camera crews into. She did her and her inner circles lives for years. Like they did this over a year, a long period of time. But now she's claiming that the edit was to hurt her rather than put her in a good light. And a lot of the things that they show in the deep end is misleading.
00:12:37:13 - 00:12:50:01
Dori
You know, most people who are on a reality TV show or on a documentary that don't like the edit or don't like the the how they're portrayed, always say it's in the editing or if they edit it, if it's.
00:12:50:01 - 00:12:56:02
Stacey
In the edit, they edit that part out. By the way, I loved Molly, the, the private investigator.
00:12:59:04 - 00:13:00:04
Speaker 2
From what I
00:13:00:04 - 00:13:08:02
Speaker 2
have learned from the people who have left the organization. We appear to be running into some big red flags,
00:13:08:02 - 00:13:21:15
Speaker 2
And then I was given a document that I was shocked that they were shared with me, which is called the non-negotiables.
00:13:21:17 - 00:13:31:10
Speaker 2
And this is a list of the things that people have to agree to if they're going to be part of this inner circle.
00:13:31:10 - 00:13:53:20
Speaker 2
you can't put your own family first. The teal has to come first. If she wants you there, she gets you. The priority of the entire community is whatever's in the best interests of teal. Everything else is second to that. You can't have personal boundaries that have in any way in effect until.
00:13:53:23 - 00:14:04:15
Speaker 2
Your life is not going to even remotely resemble normal. If you want to have a normal life, do not choose to be part
00:14:04:15 - 00:14:08:15
Speaker 2
of the inner circle. And it goes on.
00:14:09:23 - 00:14:17:07
Stacey
you could tell she was very upset at the end when she was talking to teal. And of course, teal didn't hear what she wanted to hear. She wanted to hear that she was brilliant.
00:14:17:11 - 00:14:21:19
Stacey
Not a cult leader, not, you know, not pushing people towards suicide.
00:14:31:03 - 00:14:44:15
Speaker 1
No. Maybe. And I wanted you to hear that from me before I start writing this up. That, your non-negotiable list kind of solidified that for me.
00:14:44:17 - 00:14:45:09
Speaker 2
Okay.
00:14:45:11 - 00:14:50:03
Speaker 1
And I need to delve deeper into that, honestly. Well, let's.
00:14:50:03 - 00:14:50:24
Speaker 2
Do it then.
00:14:51:11 - 00:15:05:12
Speaker 1
Attempts to isolate from existing close relationships. Friends and family cut family ties. You alluded to that earlier on. You know, if you're going to be here, you're going to have to limit your relationships.
00:15:05:13 - 00:15:10:17
Speaker 2
That's not what I said. No, I totally the opposite. Totally the opposite of that.
00:15:10:17 - 00:15:15:01
Speaker 2
you're you're stepping into a territory that really frustrates me. And I literally don't know what the answer is,
00:15:22:04 - 00:15:24:03
Dori
It's her delivery to the.
00:15:24:05 - 00:15:25:20
Stacey
Yeah. She's just a bitch.
00:15:25:22 - 00:15:34:04
Dori
Yeah. You mentioned well, the I love the fact that when you, you texted me when you would watch it, you're like, I.
00:15:34:10 - 00:15:37:08
Stacey
Hear that I hate her.
00:15:37:10 - 00:16:02:00
Dori
That movie, like, so I don't know, I don't I hate her, but I, I, I think I texted Margaret, who first brought her up to me. Like, I find her amazing and completely terrifying. And I think you brought up, like, a mirror. The fact that she, she really leads with her sexuality and, she, she wants.
00:16:02:02 - 00:16:37:12
Dori
And it was very apparent with Blake who she had dated many years ago, who is still following her at this time, still a part of the quote unquote, inner circle. That as soon as he gets that girlfriend Juliana, he she, she gets very you can tell she's very jealous. She's upset. But I'm not gonna lie. Like like I say about all of these, these murders, these cult leaders.
00:16:37:14 - 00:16:42:10
Dori
I'm not gonna lie. She's she's she's attractive. She's bankable. Like, she's.
00:16:42:10 - 00:16:44:20
Stacey
She's thankful, I guess. Like, we are all.
00:16:44:20 - 00:16:47:23
Dori
Mesmerized by her and why they follow.
00:16:47:23 - 00:17:11:24
Stacey
Her. They all want to fuck her, basically. You know, there's this thing with her hair pulled to the side, you know, this sort of posing with this. She does exude that sexuality and then blames people for feeling sexually attracted to her. It's like, well, what do you want that you expect? So, you know, a mirror was the saddest one for me.
00:17:11:24 - 00:17:23:09
Stacey
I in a and I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name right, but I adore that guy and I just felt so bad for him. And also that woman that said, I don't like you, I want to get out. And then I think her name was Jillian.
00:17:30:16 - 00:17:34:14
Speaker 2
It's like I've never been, like, the last six years.
00:17:34:16 - 00:17:54:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. Look, I know it sucks, but here's the thing. It's my intention that you feel better, right? I want you to feel better. I want you to walk out this door feeling better. But the reality is, is that most adults today, yourself included, are living in authentic life. Things fall apart because they were not true to you. Is my life better now?
00:17:54:06 - 00:17:59:07
Speaker 1
I don't feel that it is the thing. That's the thing. Yeah, it is better,
00:18:05:19 - 00:18:09:24
Stacey
And then they ended up, I don't know what they I don't know what that pool thing is.
00:18:09:24 - 00:18:15:13
Stacey
They're dunking her under the water. What is that? Is that a baptism? Yeah.
00:18:15:14 - 00:18:29:15
Dori
Like a that's what I thought. Kind of like a baptism of, What are they? So they call it like the teal tribe, those that follow her. So maybe that's kind of like part of the process in what is.
00:18:29:18 - 00:18:37:22
Stacey
What is this name? Teal Swan. Is this, like, affected? Like she's so affected. Is that what is that? Is that her name, teal Swan?
00:18:38:03 - 00:18:47:16
Dori
Yeah, but I don't think that that's her real name. I don't I not her born. Yeah. I don't think that that's her born given name, but I also, I had to
00:18:47:16 - 00:19:14:05
Dori
I found it and I think the doctor when, when, when we let him out of his little cubbyhole, so we can talk about this, but she, I guess back in the 70s, there was this book before. So before Teal Swan, there was this book called, Michelle Remembers. And it was all about the satanic panic, the.
00:19:14:05 - 00:19:52:13
Dori
Well, that's what started this, the satanic panic, where, like teal, there's like all these. She claims that when she was a child, there were these rituals, that she went through where she was, you know, as a very young girl, raped and molested by, by these adults, even though her parents say that that's absolutely false. And one of her tells Inner Circle members, her, I guess, like executive assistant or something like that.
00:19:52:13 - 00:20:26:18
Dori
She also claims through the whole teal process that she also was a victim of, these ritualistic, abuses where, you know, she and other kids were put on a table where there's fire on the like to burn them, sexually abused them, which is horrific. Like, let me just say this. If it happened, of course, we are extremely empathetic, and this is disgusting.
00:20:26:18 - 00:20:38:16
Dori
And terrible, but how do you prove that this is a reality? I think this may be a good time, maybe to bring in the doctor. Yeah.
00:20:38:18 - 00:20:59:02
Stacey
Because I'm. I don't know what he thinks of this. I have no idea what he thinks of this. And, you know, I guess the only takeaway I got from it is, yes, if she was abused that way, whether or not whatever her trauma is, is, really dangerous and also to call that stuff out and not have it be true is just really gross.
00:20:59:04 - 00:20:59:16
Stacey
It would be.
00:20:59:16 - 00:21:03:09
Dori
I mean, I should believes said maybe she believes it from.
00:21:03:11 - 00:21:17:19
Stacey
That's the thing from all of that crap they're doing with people with this meditation and hypnotherapy or whatever she's doing, she can convince them of anything. So I'm curious to see what Doctor John thinks of that. Do we should we let him out of the green room?
00:21:17:21 - 00:21:20:01
Dori
Yeah. Let him out of his little cubbyhole.
00:21:20:02 - 00:21:20:20
Stacey
Okay. Come on.
00:21:20:20 - 00:21:21:13
Dr. John
John,
00:21:21:13 - 00:21:26:15
Unknown
Oh. They.
00:21:26:15 - 00:21:28:03
Dr. John
may I come out now?
00:21:28:08 - 00:21:29:17
Stacey
Sure. You may come out. Yeah.
00:21:29:17 - 00:21:34:13
Dr. John
I have to say, the new addition to the green room. This ice drink.
00:21:34:15 - 00:21:36:03
Stacey
Oh, what kind is that?
00:21:36:05 - 00:21:38:19
Dr. John
This is my favorite grapefruit. It's really.
00:21:38:19 - 00:21:43:05
Stacey
Good. Oh, you like grapefruit flavor? Oh, wait. You know what I drink? Fresca, which is grapefruit.
00:21:43:05 - 00:21:44:19
Dr. John
Citrus made by. Maybe we.
00:21:44:19 - 00:21:45:01
Stacey
Got.
00:21:45:07 - 00:21:48:17
Dr. John
Commercial break. I forget who makes this. I don't know.
00:21:48:18 - 00:21:49:20
Stacey
But sparkling ice.
00:21:49:21 - 00:21:51:00
Dr. John
They could be a one of our sponsor.
00:21:51:00 - 00:21:54:19
Stacey
They could be our sponsor. Plus Fresca and the chocolate chip cookies.
00:21:54:19 - 00:21:57:04
Dr. John
Fresh and a lot of chocolate in them.
00:21:57:10 - 00:22:08:11
Dori
A little bit, I. I sound like Stacy and I were a little bit like Teal Swan, where we allowed you to come in to the conversation because we.
00:22:08:11 - 00:22:10:03
Dr. John
Ruled the roost. I'm a.
00:22:10:03 - 00:22:12:05
Stacey
Fox. You're a you're you're allowed to come in.
00:22:12:07 - 00:22:14:17
Dori
You're part of the teal tribe. You're part of the.
00:22:14:17 - 00:22:15:18
Stacey
Part of the industry.
00:22:15:18 - 00:22:16:12
Dori
You see Dori.
00:22:16:12 - 00:22:23:21
Dr. John
Tribe. Well, as you. Yes. Thank you for allowing me to come out of the closet. Interesting phrase.
00:22:23:23 - 00:22:27:07
Stacey
Early, because I really for that.
00:22:27:09 - 00:22:52:18
Dr. John
I have a lot of reactions and a lot, a lot to say about this. And first of all, before I get into my I always like to start with my emotional reaction to, to these situations. But before that, I. You're again, I didn't think this was a very good documentary. And I wanted to hear more about what created this, this monster.
00:22:52:20 - 00:23:19:02
Dr. John
You know her background, her parenting, etc. they just touched on it. But then again, I thought, that's why people are coming to our podcast. We're really going to go deep, excuse the pun, on issues. And so it's our job to go deeper than some of these documentaries, but and as opposed to both of you, I really had a hard time watching this.
00:23:19:04 - 00:24:12:04
Dr. John
It was to me, it was like one of these creepy reality show kind of presentations, or these people's lives were just so plastic and so phony that I just was like, this is just tedious to get through, especially for episodes. But anyway, which leads me to my emotional reaction. I just felt sadness. I just had this overwhelming sadness for the people involved of, the, this teal because I think this teal, swan was a very damaged young lady when she was a kid, a clueless parents that she said took her to all kinds of psychiatrists and therapists, and they weren't helping, and she didn't sound like a mentally ill child.
00:24:12:04 - 00:24:40:00
Dr. John
She sound like a precocious kid. Kind of a lot of energy. Parents couldn't handle them, handle her. So. And then they they give her to this guy to live with. And at six years of age, I mean, what parent goes and the way it was portrayed in the documentary is my parents, you know, this guy came along, said, well, I can help her if you allow me to live with her, to live with me.
00:24:40:02 - 00:25:07:02
Dr. John
So, like what what what craziness is this? And this of predictably, this guy rapes her and abuses her, treats her like a captive until I think she escapes at the 16 years of age. But that was to me. This is. And here's where the sadness is, especially as a mental health practitioner. This is a failure of our mental health system.
00:25:07:04 - 00:25:17:02
Dr. John
You know, this is a child that needed better guidance, better parenting advice from somebody. And these parents, you know, are all over the place.
00:25:17:02 - 00:26:03:06
Dori
it sounds like you have definitely bought into that. Like that. You are taking that for truth. I still, just because of who I saw teal Swan is, I don't know if that is a true story or not. And again, if it is, oh my gosh, absolutely terrible at like, Stacy had said, for somebody to say that and not be true, but I really don't know because she talks about and in doing that research too, like she goes to these therapists after that satanic panic that opened the door, that is that true?
00:26:03:06 - 00:26:17:16
Dori
Or did a, you know, quote unquote, quote unquote therapist put that into her brain and that gives her credit to now be who she is now and making all this money and being a self healer.
00:26:17:21 - 00:26:36:20
Dr. John
Well, Dory, that's an excellent point. And I didn't even think of that. I thought it was the documentarians that talked about the history. I didn't think she could have been narrating at that point and saying, this is what happened when I was a child, but I thought it was the documentary people that talked about it as if it was fact.
00:26:36:22 - 00:27:06:24
Dr. John
But listening to you guys from the Green Room, I never got the impression that it was maybe made up or part of these, you know, past lives, B.S. therapy that was out there for a while. So that's a good point. It could very well be her manifestation of something. And she is using it is her, you know, cred, credentials, so to speak, that that I've been through this.
00:27:07:01 - 00:27:23:05
Stacey
Well, it's the trauma dumping, you know, it's like. Yeah, now, but you you relate the trauma you have, and then the person can become vulnerable because they hear you talking about your trauma, and then you relate, and then all of a sudden you're then you're all of a sudden this person understands me well.
00:27:23:06 - 00:27:49:10
Dr. John
And that's why I say to me, the scene of the hour episode here is the failure of mental health, because it doesn't just pervade to the Teal Swan story. It yes, you both hinted at earlier, we had this movement some years ago where regressive therapy, where you were going into past lives and conjuring up, you know, everybody was abused by their parents.
00:27:49:12 - 00:28:21:05
Dr. John
You know, there was a there is a theme of that in this documentary. Then this whole thing of you have to relive the trauma. And we we saw these painful episodes, these people crying and confronting their parents who abuse them. And all of this stuff, by the way, has been, banned by the American psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association is, the techniques that are harmful, abusive and not to be used.
00:28:21:07 - 00:28:55:23
Dr. John
One of the other names out there which we saw in the documentary was, Primal Scream Therapy, where you're supposed to, you know, get up almost into a, a fetal position and just scream your pain away. And it's been proven to do more damage than good. To to have a person go through this. But, of course, as you both adroitly pointed out, this tool has no training in anything, is not, using her techniques on any scientific basis.
00:28:56:00 - 00:29:24:13
Dr. John
And in fact, the other problem I have with her is that there are scenes where she's doing these tantric things, you know, and the sage, you know, swiping of a room and frog poison. She puts on the, her assistant to purge her of her trauma. And it's almost like a mishmash of, of B.S. that she saw on, on, the internet or something like that, with no cohesive structure.
00:29:24:15 - 00:29:39:23
Dr. John
I mean, if in Native American religions and, and beliefs, there's at least some structure to what what's happening in and they could possibly work. This is a hodgepodge of just stuff.
00:29:40:00 - 00:30:12:13
Dori
So what do you feel about the fact that, you know, she makes a ton of money? I mean, I don't know, her finances, allegedly. You know, I would assume she makes a lot of money by these people who, as we've talked about other cults in the past, they are desperate, like people are desperate and like you said, she is not a licensed therapist, but and and the Deep End came out in 2022.
00:30:12:15 - 00:30:39:20
Dori
And to this day she has tons of followers still to this day. So I don't know, like, what is that? Speak to our society and and like like people like you that went to school for this to help people. And she's helping people without a degree and just going around and saying the stuff she says. And people follow her.
00:30:39:22 - 00:31:03:10
Dr. John
Well, a couple of things. Let me address, you have two comments there. One I want to address, which is the last thing about what do I think about people with no training that are out there pretending to help people? I mean, get to that, but but I had to laugh when, she there was two segments on the, documentary where she's with this group of people and she goes, she has.
00:31:03:10 - 00:31:30:23
Dr. John
How many people raise of hands, please? How many people are in pain? Well, everybody in the audience raised their hand. Well, of course they're coming here because they have the pain. So to answer your question, Dory, they she attracts people that are really in distress, which is the sadness of it, because these people need real help, not tell someone to just give these, you know, I call them hand-holding kind of techniques.
00:31:30:23 - 00:31:35:09
Dr. John
And, and this confrontato technique, which I want to get to a, a little later,
00:31:35:09 - 00:31:51:20
Dr. John
But you also mentioned I think this is a good point, especially early on in our podcasts here about my philosophies. I don't have a problem with people who feel that they are getting better, or it improves their lives of their following.
00:31:51:20 - 00:32:13:12
Dr. John
Somebody who has integrity and is meaningful. And as a helper, it could be a friend. It could be a relative, a parent who helps them get through some things and they don't have they have a degree or I don't have any ego investment in that, that, you know, whoever helps the person have a good life, God bless them, you know?
00:32:13:12 - 00:32:35:11
Dr. John
But when we confront people that are doing this on such a large scale and with so many people that are in pain and have killed themselves as a result of their techniques, then I have a problem with it. You know, these are not people that should should advertise this. Which brings me to the point of the reaction towards teal.
00:32:35:13 - 00:33:16:06
Dr. John
I think this is a damaged individual who becomes a leader. People are attracted to, leaders that somehow, again, we have one in the white House right now. But, you know, we've had Hitler throughout the ages. We had Mussolini. We have all kinds of leaders that were psychiatrically and psychologically damaged. But there's a charisma to it. And if you forgive me, I have 30s of a personal story that tell reminded me of in my early days, much early days, even though I'm only 39.
00:33:16:08 - 00:33:42:19
Dr. John
There was. The audience doesn't know that, but my colleagues know that's a joke. But, in my dating days, and one of the women that was kind of in the our friends circle that I hung around with reminded me a lot of Teal Swan. She even looked like Teal Swan, attractive, but not conventionally model. Kind of attractive.
00:33:42:19 - 00:34:06:13
Dr. John
There was a very sexual attractiveness to this woman, just like Teal Swan. And she had a lot of the same characteristics. She was controlling, she was manipulative. She was dogmatic. She would say, this is the way you got to be. This is just the way you got to be. You know, I was totally turned off. Even though this woman tried to date me.
00:34:06:15 - 00:34:32:15
Dr. John
I was totally turned off by this woman, you know, because it was like, oh, you know, this is a, a firestorm of thing. But she to a lot of the guys in her circle, they fawned over this woman because of that control, because of that candor. She was she would speak up and say, no, no, this is the way you should be.
00:34:32:15 - 00:35:00:18
Dr. John
No, don't do that. And there was and again, this sexuality that is hypocritical because why are these men just sexually attracted to me when she's got her? Like Stacy said, are here. This beautiful hair kind of flowing down one side. She's always got a slit dress and sitting with you could almost look up her skirt every time she sits in the documentary, you know?
00:35:00:20 - 00:35:19:02
Dr. John
And that's how this woman that's funny. Yeah. That's how this woman was. She was. She was almost exuded sexuality. I'll be honest. I was attracted sexually. I'd say, as Dori would say, I would do her, but then I'd run for the hills.
00:35:19:04 - 00:35:22:13
Stacey
And head for the hills and make sure she doesn't have a baby or.
00:35:22:13 - 00:35:25:07
Dr. John
Something. Yeah, exactly. Which, by the way.
00:35:25:10 - 00:35:25:21
Stacey
Well.
00:35:26:00 - 00:35:30:05
Dr. John
Whatever happened to this woman's baby? It's never mentioned.
00:35:30:07 - 00:35:33:22
Dori
She has a son, and he was, like, outside jumping.
00:35:33:24 - 00:35:35:12
Stacey
Jumping on the trampoline.
00:35:35:12 - 00:35:39:02
Dori
They just didn't want to show him. I think, you know, for his sake. Yeah.
00:35:39:04 - 00:35:40:13
Stacey
Say. Right. The doc.
00:35:40:15 - 00:35:51:21
Dr. John
Yeah, that's another question I had early on in the series. She goes, you know, and I had a child, but there's no mention of the, the child, you know, or whatever happened to that kid, you know.
00:35:51:23 - 00:35:52:05
Stacey
Yeah.
00:35:52:05 - 00:35:58:06
Dori
The child was definitely there. The child was as elusive as your age, doctor.
00:35:58:10 - 00:36:01:20
Stacey
Yes. The child was as elusive as your age. It's good. Oh, everybody.
00:36:01:20 - 00:36:03:22
Dr. John
Knows my age now. 39. You know.
00:36:04:01 - 00:36:20:09
Stacey
Exactly. Well, I'm 38. So Doris, 37. Yeah. That I that all of that stuff, you know, that is is extremely familiar to me. I mean, I had a situation, like I told you on one of the other,
00:36:20:09 - 00:36:32:20
Stacey
episodes. We did about, you know, somebody, you know, somebody using their kind of using their sexuality but not intending to use their sexuality to attract to something.
00:36:32:22 - 00:36:42:15
Stacey
It's that sink and grow rich bullshit, that book, you know, that teaches you how to manifest money for manifestation.
00:36:42:17 - 00:36:44:13
Dr. John
Excuse me for interrupting. Stacy. No.
00:36:44:15 - 00:36:45:00
Stacey
You didn't.
00:36:45:00 - 00:36:55:04
Dr. John
Brings me to the the use of sexuality. You could see it. Throughout the docu series. She used her sexuality to draw people in.
00:36:55:06 - 00:36:55:14
Stacey
Yeah.
00:36:55:19 - 00:37:10:04
Dr. John
And what? It was the larger audience or these individual inner circle people that she attracted. And look at this poor, poor, Blake. So I would say poor Blake.
00:37:10:06 - 00:37:11:19
Stacey
Blake was.
00:37:11:20 - 00:37:14:08
Dr. John
Simple, simple turn of a guy.
00:37:14:10 - 00:37:31:04
Stacey
Yeah, really, really simple. Do you think there was any alcohol drugs related in this world there? And because there was nothing but, like, how did she get up on stage and be, like, sits down like this diva guru queen. There's, you know.
00:37:31:05 - 00:37:43:16
Dr. John
Thank you for getting to that, Stacy. Because there's where you see the dysfunction emotionally stunted. She didn't show any emotion throughout this whole and.
00:37:43:19 - 00:37:45:17
Stacey
None no empathy either.
00:37:45:21 - 00:38:07:20
Dr. John
In the times when there was trauma or crisis in the inner circle, she's still that emotionless kind of Iron Curtain kind of person. There's a key indicator that there's something seriously wrong inside this person mentally. And those are things that I was picking up for you.
00:38:07:24 - 00:38:32:05
Dori
So, I mean, we all I think the three of us agree with that. Like, this woman is like, has a, like, heart of steel, like, she's just, like you said, emotionless. What? How? I'm just. I wonder how people like this, like, you know, cult leaders and and another people maybe like her and like, is she a cult leader?
00:38:32:05 - 00:39:03:00
Dori
Is she not? I still don't know, but it seems like, you know, walk like a dog, talk like a duck to duck. But like these people, I, I think I get, nervous because who's to stop them? Like, if she'll never get more help in her life, like, I believe she thinks she's the shit. Like there is what I say goes so.
00:39:03:01 - 00:39:05:12
Stacey
So I mean, with Dory. Luna.
00:39:05:14 - 00:39:13:23
Dr. John
Because she even said that at the beginning of the docu series. She says, yeah, I have the truth. I know how, how to live and if you do.
00:39:13:23 - 00:39:20:12
Stacey
But she also says the opposite. You better. She also says, I don't know the all the answers. Yeah. She says.
00:39:20:14 - 00:39:25:07
Dr. John
Such confusing. Well, she said that after she was confronted by, I think the
00:39:25:09 - 00:39:28:05
Dori
It was a private investigator. Yeah. That brought.
00:39:28:05 - 00:39:29:08
Stacey
Her which, which, by the.
00:39:29:08 - 00:39:58:22
Dr. John
Way, I had a different reaction to the private investigator than you did because I work with these people, and I have never in my being and in all my 2 or 3 years of work. I'm just kidding. 39 in my decades of work, I have never seen the private investigator like this lady. She seemed like somebody's grandmother was doing this out of her house as a side hustle or something like that.
00:39:58:22 - 00:40:03:08
Dr. John
And, you know, but they picked her, and I sure the.
00:40:03:08 - 00:40:40:07
Dori
This is a teal swan inner circle pick. Now, we also have to say, too, that she is managed by like a former tennis pro who managed tennis players as opposed to self-help guru or anything like that. So Matthias, her manager, is maybe he picked this private investigator, which is a private investigator, to debunk the fact that she like, you know, essentially kills people because of their suit, how she deals with suicide.
00:40:40:09 - 00:41:05:21
Dr. John
Yeah. And I'm going to take a departure here because we didn't broadcast enough. The fact that there has been deaths because of what she said, because as you both hinted at in the opening, when I was in the green room, her style is confronting the suicides of like, well, maybe it's a good idea for you to kill yourself.
00:41:05:23 - 00:41:10:10
Dr. John
Well, you know, have you ever thought about what it would be like if you kill yourself
00:41:17:19 - 00:41:18:17
Speaker 2
life? What's your answer?
00:41:18:17 - 00:41:22:13
Speaker 1
Nothing. That's my problem. Nothing makes me happy like nothing.
00:41:22:15 - 00:41:24:05
Speaker 2
And your truth is, nothing's going to.
00:41:24:07 - 00:41:31:11
Speaker 1
Yes, I think I'm not sure even what anything feels like at this point. I don't know what I'm feeling.
00:41:31:13 - 00:41:33:00
Speaker 2
And why are you still here?
00:41:33:01 - 00:41:39:24
Speaker 1
I really don't know. That's why did I come up here? I don't know, because I'm trying to figure out. I'm really trying to figure out why.
00:41:40:05 - 00:41:43:17
Speaker 2
I mean, why are you still here on the planet?
00:41:44:02 - 00:42:06:09
Speaker 2
It's like part of you is trying to find an answer to stay alive. And part of you is like, I'm just going to take us out. Oh, look, here's another issue. Oh, look, is there another issue until you die? People have a very understandable yet unnatural fear of death. You have somebody sitting in front of you that does not have a problem going to these places with you.
00:42:06:11 - 00:42:33:00
Speaker 2
Like when we're really facing that decision point, play out both sides. I'm literally saying go to the worst of the worst case scenarios and make your mind up. None of us are going to get out of this thing alive. So the question is, if you knew that, what would you do differently? Thank you so much.
00:42:33:00 - 00:42:46:24
Dr. John
in statements like that which are dangerous? And I had to take umbrage with also the investigator interviewed the president of the American Academy of Suicide ology.
00:42:47:11 - 00:43:26:20
Dr. John
She. This is a very important point. And again, I think it will inform our audience, our ethics in part. Candy, she interviews the president of the American Academy of Suicide Allergy, and he has the audacity to say that. Well, yeah, there's a couple of people did commit suicide is as a result of her influence. But given the millions of people that follow her, that's not a problem because of the ratio of people that you know are following her as opposed to those who took their lives.
00:43:26:22 - 00:43:53:12
Dr. John
My God, buddy, anyway, we as a doctor, I devote my life to. Nobody takes their life. You know, as a result of what you say, not one single person, one person's life is precious, you know, not a ratio. And, well, you know, millions of people follow her and only several have taken their lives as a result of her influence.
00:43:53:12 - 00:44:10:06
Dr. John
So I guess she doesn't really cause people to take the way she calls people to take her lives. It can be one, it can be two, it can be four. It's still wrong. Where's that guy? Should step down as a result of stupid statements like that.
00:44:10:06 - 00:44:14:14
Unknown
Oh. They.
00:44:14:14 - 00:44:51:06
Dori
another aspect of of Teal Swan, as I did a little bit of other research allegedly, like when you said One Life to Live, like, she's an anti-vaxxer. So there goes you're oh, there's people. So she's an anti-vaxxer, and I have to get the word right. She is a she is a gender essentialist, which essentially she doesn't believe in non-binary transgender human beings.
00:44:51:06 - 00:45:08:22
Dori
So a lot of those people are very depressed as well. Does that mean when they have suicidal thoughts that she's just going to be like, oh, I don't look at you. I don't just go ahead, let's do the practice of suicide.
00:45:08:22 - 00:45:10:16
Stacey
It's yeah, right. Well, if.
00:45:10:19 - 00:45:23:19
Dr. John
You're conflicted, maybe the answer is just kill yourself, then you won't be conflict conflicted. You know, that would be the the teal philosophy. You know, the, Yeah. Oh, go go kill yourself. Maybe that'll injure to turmoil.
00:45:23:19 - 00:45:35:14
Dr. John
But I think we took off on her sexuality for a minute, and we went into these tangents, and and I have to also tell you in my clinical experience that when people.
00:45:35:15 - 00:46:07:23
Dr. John
Here's what brings me back to believing that she was raped and she was abused as a child, because the kids that I have dealt with that have been abused early on. And this is going to sound harsh and it's very sad. They learn early on that sexuality is very powerful, and they often grow up using sexuality, in their relationships and become very sexual people.
00:46:08:00 - 00:46:33:20
Dr. John
So maybe that led me, Dory, to not seeing the the fact that this could be made up because in my clinical experience, and this is sad to say, is that the kids grow up and they become teens and young adults and they are very sexual people like Teal Swan is and so I was hook, line and sinker.
00:46:33:21 - 00:46:39:01
Dr. John
Then the fact that, she was raped at six years of age and abused.
00:46:39:03 - 00:47:16:01
Dori
Well, and it's also a manipulation of sexuality to as she's an adult because we see that when Blake is speaking with her about his new relationship with Juliana, and I don't remember if Blake is caressing her leg, I believe and I mean, it's obvious that Blake is absolutely 100% in love with her. And the fact that there's the manipulation that she likes, that she wants everybody to sign in her inner circle, almost like, you know, NDAs.
00:47:16:03 - 00:47:43:20
Dori
If you bring somebody new, like if you start a relationship with somebody, which she doesn't want you to, but if you do, it has to be approved by her because she feels that, you know, everybody's after her. She's such she's so public that everybody is after her, but that is her manipulation of these people like Blake, like, I don't want you to have a relationship with anybody, but I don't like you.
00:47:43:23 - 00:47:53:13
Dori
But I just want you around to love me. And I'm not going to reciprocate that to you. But you loving me is fantastic.
00:47:53:15 - 00:48:28:19
Dr. John
Yeah, I have to agree with you completely in this whole underlying sexual tone that maybe the documentarians weren't privy to, but I'm wonder if there was some group sex involved here in New, other kinds of kinky things that are going on. It just the docu series just dripped of that. There was some incestuous, kinky stuff going on and, you know, you could see that, as Dory pointed out.
00:48:28:21 - 00:48:52:01
Dr. John
Blake is there with his wife, Juliana, and, Blake is touching her thigh. You know, near her genitals, you know, in an affectionate way. And and there again, look at the lack of emotion out of steel. I mean, just she's still this kind of ironclad, you know? This guy's got his hand on my thigh, and, you know, it's.
00:48:52:01 - 00:48:56:05
Dr. John
I'm just, you know, like, it's normal.
00:48:56:07 - 00:49:01:14
Dori
I want to hear about Stacey. What? Because Stacey likes a good side. Chorus. Right.
00:49:01:16 - 00:49:33:03
Stacey
Yeah. You know, I, I was wondering if somebody could come over and caress my thigh. No, I thought that was disgusting. How? She just wants to hang on to everybody and hang on to this. Blake guy. Allow him to do you know it's this. What is the psychological, personality disorder that causes somebody to feel that they need this kind of attention and this kind of praise, and, you know, without any formal, like, training, like, how do you become how do you do this?
00:49:33:03 - 00:49:40:06
Stacey
Like, you just get up and say, I know. And she kind of talks in this sort of affected. Well.
00:49:40:08 - 00:50:06:14
Dr. John
Seeing it again as we, we talked about a little earlier, you know, there's a lot of damaged people out there that become leaders of other people. And it's like the, as I told sometimes patients of mine, you know, it's like the old saying is a good brain surgeon is somebody who went through brain surgery themselves. I don't want somebody to work on my brain as a surgeon because they had brain surgery.
00:50:06:14 - 00:50:09:00
Dr. John
I'd be concerned about.
00:50:09:02 - 00:50:09:19
Stacey
Their, you know.
00:50:10:00 - 00:50:11:03
Dr. John
Abilities.
00:50:11:05 - 00:50:13:19
Stacey
So yeah, you're right. We asked people.
00:50:13:19 - 00:50:35:05
Dr. John
She portrays herself as a leader and follow me because I went through all this trauma. I know what it's like. I'm. I can guide you through healing. Like I healed. Well, did she really heal? She's a freaking stone, you know? She has very little emotion. It's been through five marriages. Hello?
00:50:35:11 - 00:50:36:11
Stacey
I'm not.
00:50:36:13 - 00:51:03:00
Dr. John
I'm not, you know, casting any aspersions that people will have a five marriages, but there's something wrong there. When you have five marriages that you, you know, you can't hold a relationship and then has all these people fawning over her. But, Stacy, back to your point about what kind of, psychological condition is there, and I, I hate throwing out this term because it's so misused, but it's narcissism.
00:51:03:02 - 00:51:13:03
Dr. John
You know, there's a narcissistic individual that I know what the answer is because I went through this, I went through this and I can show you how not go through this.
00:51:13:03 - 00:51:31:06
Stacey
You know what? I don't like that know it all personality. I don't like when people, you know, I don't like when people try to convince somebody that what they're saying is not true, and that there must be something deeper that is so damaging to me. You know what I mean? Especially like with that guy Amir. Like, why are you here?
00:51:31:06 - 00:51:49:20
Stacey
I don't know. Well, why don't we talk about why you're instead of, like, collaborating? What we talk about, why you're here. I mean, obviously, it's not even close to being like a therapist, but I feel like she's feeding them what they want, what she wants them to say, and so that she can respond.
00:51:49:22 - 00:52:12:21
Dr. John
I'm so glad you brought that up, because I wanted to get to this earlier when you mentioned something like this, Stacy. And that is why do people follow? Because we're all looking for answers and she's she's goes out there, projects herself. I have the answer. You know, I have the answer. So follow me because I know I can tell you what to do and how to do it.
00:52:12:23 - 00:52:15:13
Dr. John
And people eat that up.
00:52:15:13 - 00:52:46:19
Dori
there was a guy during one of their retreats who spoke up against her, against teal, asking if there's anybody she looked up to or anybody who was above her. Because you can't. I don't know what the point was. What? Like, you can't be completely infallible. Like, there there has to be somebody out there who knows more than you, right?
00:52:48:23 - 00:52:51:24
Speaker 2
So cookies. If you spend all your time
00:52:51:24 - 00:53:01:14
Speaker 2
calling people's B.S. all right, is there anyone out of the team that you would have enough respect for that they could challenge you?
00:53:01:16 - 00:53:05:04
Speaker 1
It's a strange question. Why is that an important question?
00:53:06:05 - 00:53:11:01
Speaker 1
Why? I should have someone above me.
00:53:11:03 - 00:53:14:03
Speaker 2
Not above you. I hate you, you look up to.
00:53:14:07 - 00:53:15:13
Speaker 1
I don't look up to anyone.
00:53:15:15 - 00:53:18:22
Speaker 2
But I. And so I have resistance against that. If I'm being brutally honest.
00:53:18:24 - 00:53:23:17
Speaker 1
What? I should have someone above me. It's not going to happen.
00:53:23:19 - 00:53:25:09
Speaker 2
That stubbornness.
00:53:25:11 - 00:53:38:22
Speaker 1
I wouldn't be particularly aware if I wasn't able to recognize the potential of someone having more awareness than me. I've never met them. Who seem to go into resistance about this. I want to know what it's about.
00:53:38:24 - 00:53:40:19
Speaker 2
Yea, they feel that way.
00:53:40:21 - 00:53:42:15
Speaker 1
Where is the sticking point with you?
00:53:42:17 - 00:53:59:02
Speaker 2
I'm not here thinking that you have all the answers and they're all right. I'm expressing everything that comes up for me. Every question, every challenge and opposition. But I also don't have to agree with everything that's being said by and no, nor should I value anyone else.
00:53:59:04 - 00:54:16:22
Speaker 1
Would be the same if I went to the Dalai Lama today and I said, okay, but like you, you are in this place of like all knowingness, but who's all knowing for you? That's a challenge. The reality for you is you think there's an actual consequence for somebody not having a mentor. You're afraid of that consequence with me.
00:54:16:24 - 00:54:21:14
Speaker 1
So.
00:54:21:16 - 00:54:29:06
Speaker 1
I would love if you would spell it out for us. Why I'm so unsafe if I don't have a mentor.
00:54:29:08 - 00:54:48:12
Speaker 2
It concerns me that. I look up to people, and then I then find out that they are not who I thought they were. Bikram kind of God.
00:54:48:14 - 00:55:01:11
Speaker 1
It's an authority thing. I can misuse my power. I can do that. And I had better be aware of that. I could take my skills and I could ruin someone's life with them. I have to be aware of that. Otherwise, I'm not very safe, am I?
00:55:01:11 - 00:55:05:22
Speaker 1
I have no problem with people not following me. If it's the right thing for them.
00:55:05:24 - 00:55:24:13
Speaker 1
But play a game with me. Pretend that I could round everyone up on the planet. And we found who the fastest human was. And then you looked at the fastest human. Said, you can't teach me. Running because you don't have someone faster than you. That's what you're doing to me.
00:55:24:13 - 00:55:34:23
Speaker 1
So is this really an argument about that, or is this an argument about the fact that you don't believe that that's me.
00:55:34:23 - 00:55:37:13
Stacey
That was a weird, weird thing. Oh.
00:55:37:15 - 00:55:59:08
Dori
Yeah. And I'm glad that they caught that on camera. Right, Stacy. So like. Yes. How to. And the response from some teal was so unemotional and angry. Like I felt anger from her response of no, I don't look. I don't look to anybody else. I have all the answers.
00:55:59:08 - 00:56:19:19
Dr. John
Right, doctor? I was dying for you to tell the audience what she said in response because she said arrogantly, no, I don't look up to anybody else. It's me. I have all the answers. And again, we search for that in life. People come, you know, look for any.
00:56:19:19 - 00:56:24:16
Stacey
Yeah, but I'm searching for an answer and I don't need to find her. I don't need religion. I don't need.
00:56:24:16 - 00:56:24:20
Dori
To be.
00:56:24:20 - 00:56:30:15
Dr. John
Intelligent. You're an intelligent person, you know, look at the people that that followed her, you know, and and.
00:56:30:19 - 00:56:34:20
Stacey
Not according to my mom. She said finally. Smart.
00:56:34:22 - 00:56:36:14
Dori
You're finally smart.
00:56:36:17 - 00:56:40:05
Stacey
I'm like, what? That was smart before. Okay? Anyway. Keep going.
00:56:40:07 - 00:57:05:12
Dr. John
Tell her it's her fault. You know it's your fault. I'm not smart. That's genetics, you know? Sorry, but, Yeah, look at the people that are just there. They're all puppy dog. There's. Blake was a puppy dog. You two, who are wonderful dog lovers, should have at that moment when Blake came into the docu series, wasn't he just, like, a little lost puppy that she found and she could live?
00:57:05:12 - 00:57:09:09
Dr. John
And he was so simple and so kind of cuddly and adorable.
00:57:09:09 - 00:57:28:10
Stacey
And just kind of everybody there can be manipulated. Yeah. All of those people that are under her and they just kiss her ass. I mean, the, you know, her tennis coach, the tennis, coach, whatever the tennis they the tennis courts and. Yeah. Yeah. So she was like, oh, I guess I'll hire him to run my in. Like, why is he.
00:57:28:13 - 00:57:33:18
Stacey
Is she sleeping with him? Yeah, of course he wants to fuck her, right. Like why he's pretty.
00:57:33:20 - 00:58:07:15
Dori
Why. That's why it. Me I think like, you know, we we do have candy about cults and like, you know, the question is, is this a cult? Well, her inner circle definitely seems like a cult. Maybe going out and speaking on her speaking engagements and having people because she does it, make people stay in her, you know, she doesn't have like a commune or anything like that for people who pay to go see her.
00:58:07:17 - 00:58:12:07
Dori
But her inner circle, the way that she acts is like a cult leader.
00:58:12:12 - 00:58:16:21
Dr. John
Absolutely. There's no question. And even the private detective said, then,
00:58:16:21 - 00:58:32:08
Speaker 1
I have these various checklists that I'm using to try to figure out the whole accusation of cult behavior. There's two sets of ethics in a cult, one for the leadership and one for the followers.
00:58:32:13 - 00:58:54:07
Speaker 2
I feel like the inner circle is very cultish. I feel like the outer circle is very self-help, right? Because I wanted to be healed. So much, I let myself be had. By her, I mean this tattoo is one that she recommended I get because I was lying to her. She said like, I she could read my thoughts and I was lying to her.
00:58:54:08 - 00:59:19:01
Speaker 2
Wow. That's when I began to question my childhood. My family. You know, I thought my grandparents sexually abused me and my parents, I thought I because you would go and just create all these stories and then you're like, start to like, freak out. Like, if that really happened, if this is my mind showing me this and all these things like just start getting worse and worse.
00:59:22:13 - 00:59:34:20
Dr. John
and I have to agree, even though I may have made fun to the private detective. And if you're listening, I apologize. But you do kind of look like a grandma. But the president.
00:59:35:00 - 00:59:38:23
Stacey
Said an ad hominem commenting. And so basically. Anyway, keep going.
00:59:39:00 - 00:59:42:21
Dori
It's also it's also okay that grandmas can go out.
00:59:42:21 - 00:59:43:07
Stacey
Yeah.
00:59:43:09 - 00:59:49:11
Dori
Grandmas. You can be grandmas and grandpas, you can be anything you want to be.
00:59:49:15 - 00:59:56:06
Dr. John
Even though all of us are under 40. There's no ageism here in pot candy. You know, there's no way.
00:59:56:08 - 00:59:59:10
Dori
We are way over 40.
00:59:59:11 - 01:00:00:01
Stacey
Wage.
01:00:00:02 - 01:00:03:07
Dr. John
Hey hey hey, cut! Jerry, cut that out of the. And cut.
01:00:03:07 - 01:00:10:02
Stacey
That out. Yeah, speak for yourself. Just right. It,
01:00:10:04 - 01:00:44:16
Dr. John
Yeah. I want to get back to what the private detective said, which is that she said, my my analysis is, which I agree with. The inner circle is a cult. And the tr oh oh. Oh, dear. But you're what the public is involved in. Didn't seem like it had cult characteristics. And I have to agree that, look, you know, people could donate money and like like Doris said at the beginning, it's $5,000 to go on one of her retreats or completion retreats.
01:00:44:18 - 01:00:45:04
Dr. John
Interesting.
01:00:45:04 - 01:00:58:09
Stacey
How long is that retreat and how many does she have? It was a week I didn't get that in for. It was a it's a week and then it's five grand and then she. Does she do this weekly? Is that how she makes her money or does she do speaking engagements?
01:00:58:11 - 01:01:04:09
Dori
I think she does speaking engagements, but also on her inner circle. They are not paid.
01:01:04:11 - 01:01:09:07
Stacey
And they do. You remember that one guy said, nice people want money?
01:01:09:09 - 01:01:29:20
Dori
Yeah, I gave all my money. And the assistant said that she get, you know, she's there for free, room and board, but they don't make any money outside of that. Which also made me question how was Blake able to leave to go to Germany with Juliana if he has no money?
01:01:29:22 - 01:01:33:02
Dr. John
This is where I think the documentary could have been better, especially.
01:01:33:02 - 01:01:33:13
Stacey
Yeah.
01:01:33:17 - 01:01:36:07
Dr. John
So it's. And we didn't get enough information. Yeah.
01:01:36:07 - 01:01:42:00
Stacey
I didn't get enough money from the German family. Subsidized this whole thing. I think they're I think they have money. The German.
01:01:42:02 - 01:02:05:01
Dori
I also have to say too, I tried to look up Blake and the even on Reddit, there is no information about him or Juliette. Like what happened to them. Like I was like. And maybe I didn't read all of the responses on Reddit, but I was like going through going through just to find out where he is. I couldn't find one thing about him.
01:02:05:03 - 01:02:06:14
Stacey
Maybe they just, you know, let.
01:02:06:14 - 01:02:13:06
Dr. John
Let him live his life, you know, and let him, you know, be at peace. You know, after getting out of this whole thing,
01:02:13:06 - 01:02:27:09
Dr. John
what are you indictment for this whole teal thing? When her number one fan, best buddy, lifelong love partner, leaves the organization?
01:02:27:09 - 01:02:42:06
Stacey
Why why why did they leave? So there was like, this time frame, this, like, sort of. So did they leave because they talked to Molly, the private investigator, and Molly gave them information, and then they got together and decided to leave.
01:02:42:08 - 01:02:49:17
Dr. John
No, they left because, remember, teal was criticizing Juliana, that you're not you're not loyal. And.
01:02:49:17 - 01:02:50:14
Stacey
Yeah.
01:02:50:16 - 01:03:01:14
Dr. John
You are against me. You hate me. And remember when they all around the room and people had to say why they didn't like Juliana and why Juliana wasn't part of the inner circle anymore?
01:03:01:18 - 01:03:05:15
Stacey
You don't like teal anymore. You don't like teal anymore.
01:03:05:18 - 01:03:11:17
Dr. John
You're jealous of teal. And you're. You know you're not. You're not a teal worshiper anymore.
01:03:11:17 - 01:03:16:12
Unknown
Oh. They.
01:03:16:12 - 01:03:23:12
Stacey
By the way, teal Swan's name is Mary Teal Bosworth. Oh, that's her. That's her real name.
01:03:23:13 - 01:03:25:19
Dori
Get the swan from. I wonder where she.
01:03:25:19 - 01:03:48:19
Stacey
I don't know, she was born on my grandmother's birthday, which is a little disappointing. June 17th. And I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to find out if there's any other. I mean, she was raised in Utah. In this telepathy thing, you know, it's just. Yeah, I, I, I mean, I could.
01:03:48:19 - 01:03:52:09
Dr. John
Talk to the dead and everything when I was a child. I mean, you know what?
01:03:52:09 - 01:03:52:24
Stacey
Yeah.
01:03:53:01 - 01:03:54:23
Dr. John
A lot of kids say that.
01:03:55:00 - 01:03:57:00
Stacey
I mean, a lot of kids say that. I mean, it's not.
01:03:57:00 - 01:04:10:20
Dr. John
Common, but it doesn't make you mentally ill or, you know, neurodivergent is the word. You know, as I say, kids say that, you know, I, I see things and, you know, well, you know.
01:04:10:20 - 01:04:19:13
Stacey
Okay, let's shift away. Did you guys both notice teal when she was little? Kind of looked a little like a boy?
01:04:19:15 - 01:04:20:06
Dr. John
I thought that.
01:04:20:06 - 01:04:26:16
Stacey
Was that about. Yeah. Yeah. What was that about you guys? I mean, it's not I mean, I don't there's that.
01:04:26:16 - 01:04:29:03
Dr. John
Crazy parent and parents again.
01:04:29:05 - 01:04:41:04
Stacey
Yeah. Crazy parents. And also you said something about Dory, I believe. Said something about LGBTQ and nothing you know, a supporter of, but maybe it was more of a trans thing as opposed to a gay thing.
01:04:41:06 - 01:04:49:03
Dori
Like a non-binary. A non-binary there's leaves just like Webster. Jay Haley, you're born with. Hey, lady, it's not.
01:04:49:03 - 01:04:53:09
Stacey
A belief. It's not a fucking belief. It's not a belief.
01:04:53:09 - 01:04:58:02
Stacey
Okay. I'm sorry. That just pisses me off so much. I, we like when.
01:04:58:02 - 01:04:59:10
Dori
You get angry stage. Yeah.
01:04:59:10 - 01:05:04:14
Stacey
If she gets the authority to say this shit to people, these people are suffering. Yeah.
01:05:04:16 - 01:05:15:09
Dori
I'm just, you know, I'm just. I'm just shocked that she still has so many, yeah, followers that she is still, like, bigger and better than ever.
01:05:15:11 - 01:05:16:16
Stacey
But yeah, bigger and better.
01:05:16:22 - 01:05:39:00
Dr. John
Let's go back to what works for her, which is that, you know, we go back to the beginning of our discussion here. She's almost kind of hypnotic quality tour. You know, her her YouTube videos are very, very alluring and she's very easy to look at. Her eyes are compelling and.
01:05:39:00 - 01:05:41:13
Dori
You know, and she's intelligent. She's not.
01:05:41:13 - 01:05:41:22
Stacey
It comes.
01:05:41:22 - 01:05:42:09
Dr. John
Across.
01:05:42:09 - 01:05:46:23
Dori
Intelligence. She comes across. Yeah. She's a well, she's a good speaker.
01:05:46:23 - 01:06:06:21
Dr. John
Yes, yes. And there's there's a real hypnotic aspect to her and soothing. It's like listening to, you know, mechanically at night to fall asleep, you know, it's like as he tells a story. What's his first name? Matthew McConaughey, Matthew McConaughey.
01:06:06:24 - 01:06:10:20
Stacey
Matthew. I can't pronounce the name. Yeah, but.
01:06:10:20 - 01:06:19:01
Dori
I like Matt. I wonder who I if Matthew McConaughey is. If you're out there and if you're single, I'm interested.
01:06:19:03 - 01:06:20:24
Dr. John
There you go.
01:06:20:24 - 01:06:26:07
Unknown
Oh. They.
01:06:26:07 - 01:06:43:10
Stacey
I you know, I asked this question earlier, just circling back to the drugs and alcohol. What do you think? Do you think anything was going on? Because there was nothing in the documentary. It didn't even look like they were drinking alcohol, but they stirred up some lemon mixture. And then when Julianna took a sip, you saw she was like.
01:06:43:10 - 01:06:47:12
Stacey
Her face was like she ate a lemon. A giant lemon puckered.
01:06:47:12 - 01:06:55:13
Stacey
You know, she was like. And they were like, this is delicious. This is so refreshing. What are they doing? Are they doing any drugs? I mean.
01:06:55:15 - 01:07:07:13
Dr. John
It could be. And again, I think this is the failure of the docu series. You know, that's some information we needed. I think we needed some more information on their sexuality. I got a feeling there was group sex.
01:07:07:15 - 01:07:18:00
Stacey
Yeah. Oh, yeah. We didn't get a lot of that. It was, you know, we didn't get Nexium. Called it reminded me a little bit of the Nexium cult. Yeah, because weren't they tattooing people? And then.
01:07:18:02 - 01:07:18:10
Dori
They were.
01:07:18:10 - 01:07:44:21
Stacey
Branding Yogi. Yeah. So the branding is the Nexium and then the Yogi Bhajan, the other, the other, sort of guru people were following who passed away. It felt like a similarity. There's a similar arrogance of knowing things to people that and challenging them when they're trying to that struggling that I really can't stand. And John, I know you're a therapist.
01:07:44:23 - 01:08:01:20
Stacey
You would never treat your clients that way, you know, if you could. So here's my rule of thumb. If somebody's charged you five grand and then acts like that with no credentials, run. Don't walk in the other direction. Talk Doctor John Mayer or Dory
01:08:01:20 - 01:08:06:12
Unknown
Oh. They.
01:08:06:12 - 01:08:17:00
Dr. John
Well, I think we need to wrap up. And how about, a word for our audience as to what to watch out for with these people? What what what should we tell them?
01:08:17:02 - 01:08:21:24
Stacey
Well, beware of anybody named Teal Swan. Just kidding.
01:08:22:01 - 01:08:22:21
Dr. John
That's good.
01:08:23:19 - 01:08:25:04
Stacey/Dori
Thanks so much for listening.
01:08:25:04 - 01:08:33:09
Stacy/Dori
Stay tuned for our next episode when we will dive into the disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley.
01:08:33:21 - 01:08:37:10
Stacey/Dori
Our theme music is written and performed by Midnight Current.
01:08:37:12 - 01:08:54:10
Stacey/Dori
Check out more of their work on SoundCloud. For more about us and to catch up on every episode of pod Candy, head over to pod Candy podcast.com. You can also find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time!
01:08:54:10 - 01:08:57:10
Speaker 1
Candy.
01:08:57:11 - 01:09:11:18
Unknown
I.
01:09:11:20 - 01:09:20:09
Unknown
Really?