That the reason they were toppling is
because they had never had to face resistance.
Hmm. That the wind is actually necessary. Oh, wow.
For the health of a tree,
because it's against the blowing of the wind.
Yeah. That the roots have to dig in. That's
Good. Welcome
to the Hope and Real Life Podcast with Jason Gore.
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Let's get the conversation started.
Well, welcome to season two Hope in Real Life podcast.
Thank you all for tuning in.
We are here this week with pastor, speaker, author,
former NFL Player College All American.
And as we heard in a previous episode this season,
botanical Garden Walker layout Scrub Jr.
Layouts. How you doing this morning?
You're never gonna let that go,
are you? Never gonna let it go?
Not gonna let it go.
We are here this week to talk about a topic that, uh,
is very near and dear to my heart.
I know it's near and dear to your heart.
It, it is two men who really wanna see the world
become a better place.
We wanna see lives change.
We want see people experience the life that we believe
that God's created them to experience, regardless of
what our listeners believe, how that fits in,
that's what we're after.
And, and it's the topic is this how to be
resilient in a chaotic world.
My mind. Yeah. And
so layouts is here with us this week.
He's actually written a book called The Resilience Factor.
And so, uh, man, I just would love
to start right outta the gate.
What does resilience mean to you?
Yeah. Resilience, uh, to me,
to quote the great Mike Tyson.
That's right. I know right where this is going.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.
And, uh, and I think there is something incredibly
poignant in that statement.
He probably didn't know that as he was saying it, but No,
He's a theologian. He
he is a theologian, a theolog, and a philosopher.
And a philosopher. That's right.
Um, um, but, but there is something to that idea that
we all think we have the way to go
until we hit rough terrain, until we hit difficulty.
And so the way I would define resilience is the ability
to keep going, uh, against obstacle, against trial,
against tragedy, against difficulty to keep moving forward.
Or another way to say that is the capacity to get up
and keep moving after you've been knocked down. That's
Right. And, and I,
I would even now, I didn't write the book, uh,
but I I would even add on that,
like the ability to come back stronger.
That's exactly right. Than the
Time before. So it's not, Hey, we're
not enduring.
There's a difference in, in enduring something. Yes.
Versus being resilient through something.
Because when something happens, when you've gone
through some difficult times
and then you come out on the other side strong, you're like,
wait a minute, I'm a better man.
Yeah. I'm a better woman. Yeah. I know how to handle this.
Um, it's interesting
that you started out by saying that though.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth
or you, you said in the face.
Yeah. But, but punch in the mouth. Punch in the face.
I, is it me? I mean, it seems like the world right
now is throwing punches at us.
Well, the world has always been throwing punches.
Yeah, that's true. I I think the difference is, uh, the,
the frequency with which they come.
That's right. Um, the, the ability of, uh,
Joe from, uh, Jackson Hole, Wyoming, to get on Twitter and,
and yell at a celebrity or, you know, or public official.
Um, the, the access that we have to information,
it has just increased the ability, uh, for individual actors
and groups of people to create chaos in all types of ways,
which requires us to be more resilient.
And I love the, the way you rounded that out,
it is the ability to come back stronger.
And we did cover that in the book, by the way.
Um, but it's the ability to, to get hit, to get up.
And, and you have taken the collective learning from that.
And it is actually,
We're good. We
had a little lighting change in the
studio, but everything, everything's all good.
Good. It got bright. Yeah. We're good. Yeah.
I thought Jesus was coming back.
Um, I was like, I'm ready on
Trump. No trumpet though. No Trump.
I, I'm ready. I heard it inside. Okay. You didn't hear it?
I didn't hear the Trump. Oh, he, I'm in trouble.
Oh, that's in trouble. I need some resilience,
But we gotta call Nick Cage.
Oh my Goodness. Where
y'all wanna pick it up from? That's
It. No, I think we're good. We
just keep rolling.
Yeah. Oh. All right. Listen,
I don't know what kind of situation this is.
Yeah. We're good to go. You know, I, I'm usually on,
you know, we're gonna be resilient.
I'm usually on NPR type
Nonsense. You're not, did not
the npr r
Today on this episode of Hope in real life.
No. But but that ability to get up and,
and to have taken the collective learnings from that loss.
Yeah. Right. Nelson Mandela said this, um,
he said, I've never lost.
I've only won or learned. Mm-Hmm. Right.
Um, that to me, again, is a part of the essence of
actually having resilience.
And I think resilience can be cultivated. Yeah.
It's not something you're born with is, it's not something
that is reserved for special human beings
or former Navy seals or all American wrestlers.
It's something that can be cultivated over time
with intentionality.
Right. That should and that should be comforting, I think
to the, to the listening world at the moment,
you're going through a difficult time.
Like this is something that can be developed.
You've gotta want to develop it. That's right.
You gotta be willing to go through the fire.
But, but it is something that can be developed.
Uh, I think it's important, uh, for our audience to kind
of connect with you a little bit on this and,
and not, 'cause I know a bit about your life.
Right. We know each other. Uh, for those of you, uh,
maybe you've heard this story, but there was a couple months
ago, you were in town two, three months ago in town,
and we spent some time in an office.
Just, we just said, you know,
if we're gonna be working together more,
if we're gonna be spending more time together,
we should just get to know each other more.
Yeah. And talk about our stories.
I think it was maybe 30 minutes
before both of us were probably
in tears talking about things. We'd gone through 30
Minutes. 30
Okay. Minutes. 33
minutes. 30
Minutes. You were crying in
seven minutes. It was beautiful.
Oh my gosh. It was beautiful.
Okay. Well, we've got a clip of you
that we're gonna play now.
You're going through flower gardens.
So we're gonna play that. And we're gonna,
It was incredible. But
Let's do this, because I know you,
you could pick one, you got a laundry list.
Yeah. But just talk about a time
where you experienced a difficult time in your life
and you, you had to work through that.
And maybe just share bit of that with our listeners.
Yeah. Um, I mean, I can say this quite candidly.
Uh, 2019
to 2022 were the hardest
years of my adult life.
And I questioned everything. I questioned my calling.
I questioned whether I was supposed to stay in ministry.
I questioned, um, uh, what I had done with my life
for the previous 10 years and,
and if I was in the right place, doing the right thing.
And, and it was because there was a series of, uh,
of incredible challenges and difficulties and traumas.
You know, in 2019, um, uh, a couple of my elders
and one of my associate pastors, uh, decided to try and,
and, uh, basically upend my leadership and,
and the leadership of some of the other elders and pastors.
And, um, it caused, uh, terrible trauma in our church.
Um, I, I wouldn't call it a church split, but,
but definitely a church splinter.
You know, there were a bunch of people that
scattered just because they were hurt.
They, they weren't even mad at a particular side.
They're just like, I don't wanna be a part of the drama.
And so we navigated that in 2019,
rolled right into the pandemic in 2020.
Um, and leading a church you can't see, uh,
is incredibly challenging.
Um, and because we were in the city of Atlanta, uh,
you know, I don't know if you guys followed this on the
news, but our governor
and our mayor were fighting every day.
Right. Uh, the governor was like,
go back to church and do your thing.
And the mayor was like, if I catch more than five people in
that building, I'm gonna shut you down forever.
And so we were caught in this limbo where we didn't gather
for 14 months.
Wow. 14 months.
So I didn't even know if we would have a church, um,
you know, on the other side of that.
Uh, and then in the midst of that,
my younger brother was fighting cancer.
And, uh, all through 2019,
while I was on this legitimate battle front in,
in our church, my brother's fighting cancer.
And I couldn't be there for him the way that I wanted
to be when I look back in hindsight.
'cause, um, you know, I couldn't know then that,
that he was going to end his fight with cancer, um,
you know, a few years later, uh, which was in September
of 2021.
And so, um, these last few years have been one hit
after another.
And if I, I mean, I can say this without any,
any reservation or compunction.
If, if I hadn't had a life, some of the things we shared
when we were together, uh, of having to find a way
to regroup and recalibrate, uh, on the other side of tragedy
and move forward stronger than I was.
If, if, if I hadn't taken the time to cultivate that through
academics, through sports, through family drama,
which we don't even have time.
And I think that's where the, the tears started.
That's right. That's right. Um, uh,
if I didn't have those faculties,
I don't know that I would still be standing.
And, and, and, you know, again, we're Christians, uh,
I do believe that the spirit of God in me, um, has been kind
of that X factor.
Right. But, but just from the sheer standpoint of emotional,
mental, and physical wellness, if,
if I didn't have those other things to kind
of build this resilience into me over time, man,
there's no way that, that I not only survive, but
but thrive on the other side of that.
And that, and that's the word.
It's not, and, you know, endurance is survival. Right.
We don't wanna survive. Resilience is thriving right.
On the other side of it. And,
and integrating the pain into
the person that you're becoming.
And, uh, and I feel like that's a lot of
what 2023 has been is, is a, a period of integration.
And those are the cycles we go through.
We go through pain, we go through trauma.
We either repress it or we integrate it, or, or we expel it
and take it out on other people.
Um, and I feel like this year has been the integration
process of, you know, how am I doing not being able
to call my brother every day?
How am I doing, um, knowing, um, that
the men who did what they did have, you know,
started a new church and continue to try and spread rumors.
How am I doing, um, recovering from 14 months of,
of, uh, not being able to gather with our church
and wondering if we're gonna make it
after we had just bought our largest building ever.
Right. By the way, two months
before the shutdown, we bought 12 and a half acres
and a hundred thousand square feet.
Yeah. Uh, yeah. Talk
About asking some questions, man. That's tough.
Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's it, man. That's, that's, uh,
And for people that don't know, I mean, you, you don't,
uh, despite what some people might think,
you don't start a church
or step into, uh, the role of pastor, uh, for fame
or for fortune for other people.
That's not, that's not, you know,
for the sake of being lived up. That's not why you do,
Oh, there are better things to do.
There are, there is a lot better things.
And we can, we can have a whole podcast on that.
But we, you, you do that
because you actually care about the mission.
Mm-Hmm. You care about it.
And so when you give your heart and your soul to something,
and then the thought of there might be another man
or group of men or some other people that are trying
to strip that thing away from you.
And then there's outside circumstances that then play in,
man, the questions, uh, and,
and the resilience that it takes
to be able to push through that.
And as a guy who knows you, I applaud you for, for the focus
that that took, because I know, um,
that could have been easy to just take a step back
and say, I mean, there are easier things
that I can give my time to and give my energy to.
And quite honestly, it would hurt a lot less.
Well, and there were things on the table. Yeah.
You know, I had multiple job offers through 2019 and,
and multiple opportunities to just bail.
Um, but when I looked at kind of the, the cultural ethos of,
of bailing out when it gets hard,
I didn't want to replicate that pattern.
And, and honestly, in a lot of ways, there,
there are things in me that just wouldn't allow it.
Right. You know? And, uh,
even though the thoughts circulated through my mind,
We are going to take a brief break from our show
to let you know about a resource
that we are making available to you.
If you're looking for a resource on personal development
or spiritual enrichment, then you've gotta check this out.
It's a free tool. Now, free to our listeners. Free is good.
It was not free for us to create,
but free for our listeners made.
Specifically for anyone who's looking
for a bit more hope in their everyday life, listen
to the features, daily devotions, parenting tips,
financial resources, marriage insights.
There's even a community
where you can share prayer requests.
If you've got things going on in your life and you can see
and know that other people are praying for you,
this is gonna be available in early January.
We'll make sure everybody knows.
Stay tuned, keep looking for it. We'll have it out.
But listen, tomorrow can be better than today.
And hope is possible even in real life.
Let's get back to the show. Yeah.
And we might come back to that, that little thing
that we get in our heads
sometimes that won't let us do that.
But, but I want, I wanna do this.
'cause some, some folks might be listening and,
and I, we, we talked about this before the show,
but I kinda have a, um, I'd be lying if I didn't say,
had an agenda with, I didn't have an agenda with this topic.
Passionate agenda. Yeah, that's exactly right.
Because I do believe the world, like you said,
it's always been throwing punches,
but it seems like right now they're just coming faster
and faster and faster and harder and harder and harder.
And I wanna be careful how I say this.
Um, but may, maybe it's circumstantial.
Maybe Covid had a big impact on this,
but it doesn't seem like the majority of the population is
as good at taking those shots
and wanting to come back stronger.
And, um, and so, but I,
but I desperately believe that the world, um,
that there is more hope out there
than what we realize right now.
Yeah. And so I think we've probably got some listeners,
even if they're not going through something right now,
maybe they've got kids, maybe they've got young kids,
and, um, we don't always get to choose the battles.
Right. That's right. That's that sometimes the battles
choose us and
that develops resilience if we push through it the right way.
But what are some things that, that, that parents can take?
And I'm actually going somewhere with this,
so if we don't land to play in the right spot,
maybe I'll come back to it, but what
are some things some parents can do?
What are some environments some parents can create
for their kids that would actually help them
develop resilience in their lives? Yeah.
No, I know exactly where you're going.
And I, and I think that is a great direction to go.
The, the only thing I would say
before I jump into that is to anyone who's listening,
life only comes in three stages.
You're either entering a trial in the middle
of a trial or exiting a trial.
That's exactly right. So if you're not going
through something right now, you will be buckle up.
You know, you will be, it's, it's coming.
Um, and putting your head in the sand
and hoping that it passes is, is not the way to do it.
Um, and, and so I, I think teaching our children
that at an early age comes, uh, with intentionality.
Uh, a couple of things that I've done personally, uh,
is create environments of challenge for them
and environments of difficulty.
You know, we're, we're kind of in a, in a moment right now
with our son, um, he told me he wanted to wrestle.
You and I both know that, um, there was no,
no glitz, no glamor.
That's right. No money. Right. No money. No money.
Maybe a college education. That's right.
You get your college paid for. Um, and,
and so, but there's easier
Ways to get your college paid
For it. There you go. It
is a hard sport.
And, uh, he did it one year.
He said he kind of liked it,
but he didn't know he came back this year.
Well, it turns out he's been, you know,
quietly telling my wife that he doesn't wanna wrestle.
He's, he's just been doing it because dad did it.
And I had a moment where I had
to decide if I was gonna let him pull the rip chord, uh,
or make him finish out the season.
Right. Even though he doesn't wanna do it, he hates it.
And now he hadn't told me this. Right.
But I can see it on him. He hates it.
It, and, and I don't blame him, you know? Right.
If I wasn't, if I wasn't certifiable
Right, I would probably hate it too.
Right. Um, but he's gonna finish the season. Yeah.
We don't let our kids quit things Yeah. In the middle.
So that's one way to build resilience. Yeah.
We don't let 'em quit in the middle.
You can quit at the end.
Yeah. Or you can not start. Right.
But you're not gonna bail in the middle. That's good.
Um, and, and it hasn't always been received.
Well, you know, anybody who's tried
to race teenage girls, um,
That's me. Oh,
Jesus. Help Jesus.
Um, but you know, our, she's
Great. I know she listens.
I love you. I love you. He loves you.
I do love you. You and mom are special together though, I
Tell you that. And, and my
girls, uh, you probably won't listen,
but if you ever do, I love you too.
And you're also the source of all
of the white hair in my chin.
Um, but we had to make our oldest, she tried
to quit in the middle of the track season last year.
We're like, no, you're gonna finish now.
If you don't wanna run track after this, that's fine. Yeah.
But you're not gonna quit on yourself
and you're not gonna quit on your team in the middle.
That's one way that we build resilience. Yeah.
We don't just give our kids things. Right. Right.
They have to earn things.
Um, it, you know, every year, Christmas time,
however many new toys you think you want, that's
how many old toys are going away.
Mm-Hmm. You know, and,
and we're in that we're not only teaching them about, uh,
loss and, and processing, letting go,
but we're also teaching 'em generosity.
Right. Because they're taking those lightly used toys
and I've given them the kids who may
or may not have a Christmas at all.
Um, but those are a few of the things, man.
Keep going down the line. You know, I,
I made my kids start cleaning up
after themselves when they were five.
Yeah. Even though I knew they would do a terrible
job. Right. I'm like, you
Still have to clean up after them cleaning up after.
That's, that's exactly right. But the lesson is,
if you make a mess, you cleaned it.
Yeah. So get down and, and get this rice off the floor.
Yeah. You know, all of that,
even though they don't understand it, you know, it's me,
me ying them into, you know, resilience.
Right. If you don't understand that reference Karate Kid wax
on wax off, he was mad.
You're never gonna teach me Karate Black song. Beautiful.
And then he knew, he knew he had Kar Oh,
it was beautiful Sand Delo.
It was so great. And all of a sudden he is like,
oh, I know karate.
I'm like, yeah, dummy,
I've been teaching you the whole time.
Right, right. So a lot
of this is me meowing them Yeah.
Into what I hope, you know, will become a resilience.
Now, um, parenting is a stewardship, right? Yeah.
Like, we're just stewarding what ultimately belongs to God.
Um, and so I'm trying to be the best steward I can and,
and all I can do is, is hope
that the results are what we're putting in. Yeah.
I, I can say, and this, you know, I,
I'm not the guest on this episode,
so we're not gonna get into this,
but I can went through some, some,
some challenging times in leadership roles in
between 20 20, 20 22.
You did. And that in that way. Yeah.
So, but I can honestly say, man, the, the wrestling for me,
uh, was one of the things going through life now,
I didn't realize it, that I'd actually gone
through some challenging times and some trauma.
That probably is what led to me being able
to thrive in the wrestling environment.
You mentioned being certifiable.
I'd probably fit in that category stuff,
but I wasn't old enough to realize it at that point.
Yeah. But man, if it weren't for those lessons, um,
if it weren't for understanding, hey,
it's not about the glory in the moment.
It's about, Hey, you're not where you wanna be,
so you gotta put in the work.
You gotta keep grinding. You gotta keep pushing through.
You gotta find a way. They, they got me to that place,
we said with our kids.
Um, and, and by the way, this is not a prescription. Okay?
Uh, this is not a prescription,
this is descriptive of what we did.
So I'm not telling you this is what every parent should do,
And I hope you would follow the path. Go ahead.
We told our kids, um, that you can play any sport
that you want, um, at any season, uh, except for the winter.
Uh, you must wrestle until you get to high school. Yeah.
And so we told our kids you have to, and that's just
because of the lessons that you learn.
It's a, there's no other sport where you have to go out
and it's just you and another person.
There's nowhere to hide. There's no one else to blame.
And, uh, if you don't wanna win, you don't have to win.
Okay. But, but you do have to learn
what it's like to go out knowing.
'cause in life, you're gonna get in situations that
are going to come after you whether you
want them to or not. That's
Exactly Right. And so
you might not want to go after that person,
but I don't want to go
after every challenge that faces me in my life.
And so we just said, Hey, this is what we're gonna do.
We're gonna make it fun. Yeah.
You know, you're gonna experience some rewards.
We're gonna travel to get a little bit as a family,
we're gonna go around, we're gonna enjoy it.
Um, now in to that,
that we don't make 'em wrestle year round,
we make 'em cut weight, they'll, you know, my,
my my oldest two, you know, they've got head seasons
where they had goals they wanted to set,
and they wanted to cut weight.
And my daughter probably loves wrestling
more than anybody else in the family.
So my oldest two are twins.
They're freshmen in high school this year.
And so they still love the sport.
They're gonna be wrestling then. My youngest still loves it.
So for us, it's worked out really well. Yeah.
I believe I've seen a tremendous amount of determination,
uh, and grit through them both in school
and whether they're, you know,
maybe when my daughter is arguing back
with my wife, same thing.
So you see grit. And so, so I, I think sports,
I think you can learn a tremendous amount.
You do through sports. Get,
get a good coach if you have the right coach.
Yeah. And you allow your kids to participate
and follow that coach wherever they will take them,
if they'll invest in 'em the right
way and call 'em into bigger things.
Well, and that's what makes wrestling special
and why I wanted to put 'em into it, because you're right.
Uh, you know, when you play football, which I did that too,
I can blame the offensive coordinator.
I can blame the play calling that day.
You know, the line wasn't blocking Colorado. Yeah.
Um, you know, there, there's a bunch
of different threads you can pull.
Yeah. But when it's just you person
to person, it's just you.
And that really is what so much.
And, and, and again, this is descriptive.
Uh, me and Jason are not telling everyone
to put their kids in wrestling.
Um, but like, is this
A podcast on wrestling or resilience
Tricks you Yeah. Um,
but, but what I will say resolutely is if not wrestling
something that you believe will teach them grit Yep.
Will give them the capacity to grow against challenge. Yeah.
Um, and prepare them for their future.
You know, I heard this interesting study, um, I,
I have all kind of weird facts.
You know, Chick-fil-A That's right.
Uh, and the ice cream chicken.
Um, but they grew these trees in a dome. Okay.
You can look this up. They grew these trees in a dome.
Who's they? Uh, this group of scientists.
Okay. Not Chick-fil-A though, not Chick-fil-A Okay.
No, no. Although they might have, you know,
they're trying to take over the world.
But, um, the long story short is the trees would get
to a certain size and height like a mature
tree, and it would just fall down.
And they couldn't explain it.
They're like, well, why do these trees keep falling down
once they pop up?
We're giving them enough sun.
We're giving them enough light.
We're giving them enough water.
They have all the ingredients they need
that they should grow up and flourish.
Well, it turns out that the reason they were toppling is
because they had never had to face resistance.
That the wind is actually necessary Oh, wow.
For the health of a tree,
because it's against the blowing of the wind
that the roots have to dig in.
That's good. To not blow over. Yeah.
And when they didn't have the trial of the wind, well,
they didn't have the force of the wind blowing against them.
They still sprouted up. Yeah. As you would think they would.
Yeah. But as soon
as they got big enough, they just fell over.
Yeah. Right. And,
and I, I see so much semblance in that,
in not only ourselves, but our children and,
and, and our culture.
You know, we, we are, we are growing trees in a dome
and then wondering why they're falling
over. That's good. You
Know, that's good. We, I say
regularly in leadership.
Let, let me serve a somebody let me work alongside
of somebody that's got a little bit of a lip.
Yeah. Let me Oh, yeah.
I wouldn't wanna be alongside, if I'm in the trenches,
I want it to be with somebody
that's gone through some stuff. Yeah,
That makes sense. Who had to put
their roots down. That's right.
You know, so that they didn't topple when the wind blew.
Yeah. And, uh, yeah.
So I I, I've always found that a fascinating analogy.
Uh, our team, when we were, they were talking
through this topic, one of the, uh, thoughts
that they came up with was comparing this idea
of resilience, uh, with, with a potential, an antonym
of complacency.
And when we were talking through that, you said,
I don't know if complacency is the best anonym.
I don't know if it's the best opposite.
What would you say is, is the the best opposite
for resilience? Yeah. It's
Fragility. Mm-Hmm.
I mean, complacency is an issue,
but to be complacent, um, means that you're
unmotivated and usually immovable.
Right. So if you're unmotivated
and immovable, the chances
that you'll face a trial are pretty minimalistic.
So the, the antonym that I see to,
to resilience is fragility.
And, and it is the continual
and evidenced, um, practice of just kind
of falling apart when things get hard, you know?
And, and we see it in sport.
We see it in government, we see it in business, uh,
we see it in relationships.
That's why the divorce rate is what it is, right.
Because things get hard
and people fall apart rather, rather than getting together,
together to do the work of repairing that relationship.
And, and so I really kind of see a culture of fragility.
And, and, and this is not a political statement.
Um, I don't ride the donkey or the elephant.
I roll with the lamb, okay? Like that.
I like that pastor joke of the day.
Um, but at the end of the day, there is a culture
of fragility that, uh, started
with the generation born to the boomers.
You know, who, when we first started getting ribbons
for everything that started with us, right?
You, you know, we're, we're late Gen Xers.
And, and I'll never forget, we, I was a kid.
I was a running back, and we lost the game,
and we still got trophies and went out for pizza.
And I asked my dad, why did we get a trophy? Mm-Hmm.
And he said, I was asking myself the same thing.
That's, that's right. Yeah. That's the kind of dad I had.
Yeah. You know, but,
but truly, I, I'm like, why do we get a trophy Right?
For losing there, there are no participation awards in life.
Right? Yeah. And, and for that reason, it has ingrained
a certain level of fragility into our host culture.
Right. Ethos.
And when things get hard, people fall apart. Yeah.
And that, so I would ask you this then, and,
and I we're, the truth is this, this podcast,
this episode is probably gonna go a little bit longer
than some of the others.
Uh, probably 'cause it's something near
and dear to both mine and your heart.
And so, uh, that, that's okay.
People can listen to it on the way
to work and on the way home.
But if, um, so say we've got a listener right now. Yeah.
We've talked about resilience.
We've talked about some ways that you can
build resilience with your kids.
Uh, what if somebody's right in the middle
of something like right now Mm-Hmm.
This difficult. And,
and they would say, what am I supposed to do right now
to not want to give up?
What am I supposed to do to have the energy,
to have the fight, to be able to push through,
and as we said earlier, to even come
through better on the other side, what do I need to do?
Yeah. Number one, remind yourself of the why. That's good.
Why are you in this? You know, for me, um,
my why that kept me in the church was I want
to see people's lives fundamentally changed
by the good news of the gospel.
I believe it. And,
and I believe when people encounter Jesus,
their life has changed forever.
That's my why.
And if I can hold on to that, why, then it will help
to pull me through.
Um, the second thing I would say is, is a period
of recalibration, right?
You need to step back and,
and ask the question, how did I get here?
How did I get here? Um,
and do I see some steps toward daylight?
Right? The third thing I would say is, um,
getting the wisdom
or advice of a trusted mentor or another leader.
What would you do in this situation?
Here, here's what I'm facing.
Everything in me tells me I want to give up,
but I'm fighting to move forward.
Have you seen this before? And how did you handle it?
What did you do? The fourth thing I would say is, uh,
particularly for you Christians out there, and,
and it really should be, the first thing is to pray, right?
Ask, ask the Lord, um, to give you strength
that you don't have.
And he will, the Bible literally says he will
supply every need.
Yeah. Yeah. Right? So ask him for, I mean, I had to do that.
Dude, listen, there were days, um,
in 2019 where I just laid on the floor in my office,
face down, crying out to the Lord,
saying, please end this.
Get me outta here, or get them outta here.
But please end this and to cry out to the Lord.
And every time, not only would he give me
renewed strength, right?
Doesn't the psalmist tell us that,
that he he'll renew our strength like the eagles, right?
Even the youths grow tired and faint,
but those that wait on the
Lord, he will renew their strength.
Every time I would come outta one of those seasons
of prayer, not only would I have renewed strength,
but I'd have new ideas, new focus, new new clarity, uh,
to the point where, you know, in the middle
of this conflict, we're still trying to just have church.
Yeah. And one of these guys grabs me in between services
and he's like, Hey, I need to talk to you.
And I said, yeah, no.
And, uh, he's like, what do you mean though?
I said, my focus is them. They're my priority.
The people in that room, um, you are not my priority today.
You can schedule a meeting like everybody else, right?
Where in the preceding weeks, I was trying
to have every meeting I could because I was trying
to do damage control and put out all the fires.
So that was a strength that came out of prayer, you know?
And, and then the last thing I would say, and,
and I really do believe in this,
is every leader needs a counselor and a coach.
Mm-Hmm. Um, you need a counselor
to help you process your emotions and your traumas, um,
and your own blind spots and issues.
Um, and you need a coach, uh,
to give you perspective on your leadership
decisions and challenges.
Yeah. Um, if you're stuck right now,
if you'll do those five things, um,
I really do believe you'll not only get unstuck,
but you will have energy
to move forward in whatever you're facing right now. Yeah.
And one thing I think that's common through all
of those is you wouldn't do this if you didn't believe
that there was something better on the other side. And
That's the why. That that's
the why. It goes right back to the beginning.
Mm-Hmm. And you even, you mentioned scripture earlier,
but James says, we consider joy when we face trials
because we know there's something in
us that's being developed.
There is a purpose for the pain. Yeah.
There's a reason why we're going through it.
If we can believe that we can grab hold of it,
that's gonna give us some gas
to be able to work through these things.
Uh, Lance wrapping up. Where can we find your book?
Where can we find the resilience factor?
The resilience factor? Uh, you can find it anywhere.
Books are sold. amazon.com is a great place, but also Barnes
and Noble and any other bookstore.
And I will ask, um, that if you get it,
and if you like it, which you will
because it is really good, um,
please leave us a review on Amazon.
Uh, that helps us with the algorithm
because algorithms run our lives now. They
Do. They do.
Uh,
greatly appreciate your time being here with as always.
Uh, one of these days.
Uh, maybe we'll get to live life in the same city.
Who knows? We'll see how that works out.
I'm just go and say it here. We've been asking the Lord
well, people here online, so grateful to spend time
with you talking about resilience.
Thank you for modeling that for us.
Thank you for investing in that.
Uh, for all of our listeners, love spending time with you.
Thank you all for tuning in this week.
If this is valuable, if you know somebody
that in your life is going through a difficult time,
please share this episode with them.
Point them to the resilience factor. Great resource.
Love you guys. Looking forward
to seeing you on the next episode.
Thanks for tuning into this episode
of The Hope in Real Life podcast.
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