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In your journey to ServiceNow success you'll need help. Some people will excel at getting help. Others don't know why they're stuck.
This episode will make sure you're firmly in the first category.
Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
[00:00:00] Duke: All right, Corey, what are we talking about today?
[00:00:02] CJ: All right, dude, today, man. We're talking about how to get help.
[00:00:05] Duke: Yes. it is something, everybody talks, everybody at the top of the game talks about like, I feel every year somebody writes a blog about it or, or what have you, Tim Woodruff has fought the good fight on this a ton of times. and I recently did a post to, to LinkedIn, but I thought, you know, LinkedIn post disappear.
let's get it on podcast. Let's get it down, man.
[00:00:25] CJ: I'm totally with you on this. and I agree, I know that there that this is one of those things that gets brought up, like at least once a year, but it also spans industries. Right. I see this in a lot of the subject matters that I follow on internet, where there is a, um, one person or, let's call it a group of folks who are viewed as like Oracles to a certain degree.
and so, because they're Oracles, lots of folks come to them , to ask for assistance and that's great, cuz we all, like to help out. , but I think sometimes it can be a little bit overwhelming and then sometimes the way in which we ask for assistance matters.
[00:00:59] Duke: . This episode is for two different kinds of people. it's for those at the beginning of the journey or in the middle. And they got just tons of questions. , this is just to help you get the things you want and need faster. If you need help, how do you get help better?
This is to empower you, but it's also to help, those people that are recognized as being, leaders in the space, because I don't think anybody really appreciates the overwhelming torrent of incoming traffic of questions that they're, generally. Really prepared to answer, but because of the way they're phrased, it's just time sync, big, huge time sync.
so I guess the first point Corey is manners, please, and thank you. Go a long way.
[00:01:41] CJ: Yeah, duke, everyone likes to help. . But everyone likes to feel appreciated when they help and you know, and please, and thank you make you feel appreciated. Like, you know, like the help. is actually helpful. Right? And that you appreciate the time that I'm giving you to actually, you know, get you to wherever it is that you're trying to go.
and that's some that helps sometimes only takes 30 seconds. Sometimes it takes 30 minutes. But, you know, being able saying, please, and thank you, just makes me feel like I didn't actually waste my time or that I didn't spend my time with someone who feels entitled to it without paying for it.
Cuz I got people for that.
[00:02:13] Duke: Quick, shout out to the MTBF program on this point, because everybody who came to me from that program with questions and there was a lot of them. , please, and thank you out to Wazo even if I couldn't answer your question, Corey, thank you for your time. Couldn't believe it. It's the first time that's happened.
[00:02:29] CJ: dude, right? it's the difference between folks who are new to the industry and folks who are, who have been hanging around for a. And I, I don't know, maybe, maybe it's even, deeper than that. I'll tell you what, it doesn't matter what it, why, what it does, what it, what matters is that they do it and it's appreciate it.
so keep that up and folks out there learn from this point.
[00:02:51] Duke: I'll tell you another one. , there's like, please, and thank you are good, but do not beg do not beg, um, it's emotional exploitation, right? It, it does sound cruel to say it that way, but it's basically, you could have gained the same, possibility that I would help.
By just being really clear about some of the other points recover, like making sure you have a good question and all that kind of stuff, but instead you're just increasing emotional load on me, and thinking if you can amp up enough guilt in my conscience, then you get what you want.
[00:03:28] CJ: Yeah, right. Like that's, that's kind of, that's kind of crappy, I think about how I've asked for help throughout my entire career. , and the situations I've been in when I've had to do it, . One of them is as a student. Right. And you go to the teacher, and this starts in grammar school, right.
To get, get acknowledged your teacher calls on you, and then you begin the interaction, right? Same thing when you're starting off and you're at work and you're in a job and you're looking for a mentor or some senior level, and you're a junior level. You don't just go over to that person's desk and rip their headphones off and start talking.
Right? Like you , you know, you approach in a very respectable way. Can I get a moment of your time? You know,
[00:04:11] Duke: I had this one dude who was like, his, the focus was so much on the begging that I couldn't get him to listen to what I was telling him to solve his problem. Like every time I I'd ask him a question, he would be like, oh, you know, God put you in my life so that we could get this fixed.
And now I'll have the respect to my wife. And, you know, I can, I'm just like, oh my God, and here I am just feeling awful all of a sudden, end of a great day. And I'm feeling awful. And just like, you don't have to tell me that stuff, man. Like,
[00:04:42] CJ: Right. Like, yeah, like you're not re, like he said, yeah, you're not requiring that, man. I mean like this, like.
[00:04:48] Duke: I'm trying to help you. all right. But that was an extreme case, but like, you do see a lot of begging, right?
[00:04:55] CJ: . We're all equal here, right? If you need my help, just come and ask for it, you know, just be respectful. Just be respectful of my time when you do. that's really what it comes down.
Like, I don't need you to bag. I'm not asking you for payment or anything like that. Right. Like just be respectful. Now, if you do want me to solve a deliverable deliverable for you. I'll send you to my super peer and we can work that out, but , you know, if, if you come to, if you're just coming to me with some help or something, man, Hey, how you doing? You know, I wonder if you got a couple minutes
[00:05:26] Duke: Yep.
[00:05:26] CJ: let's start there.
[00:05:28] Duke: Okay. A couple other points we have inside of the manners section is consider the importance of where you are. just step back and think for a second, what would be the likeliest? Way for you to get an answer, to reach out to a stranger on LinkedIn, via DM and ask them a question, an anonymous stranger, or by going to a place like community, like SN devs, like the ServiceNow developer discord, where you can get tons of people who are all managing their own availability to, to give it their. Do you think that's more likely or just saying like, Hey Robert fedora, who's never done a service portal thing in his life. Like, can you help me with this super, super complex portal thing? I'm like, I don't even like, who are you? like, I'm, I'm sorry.
I'd love to help you if I could, but I don't even know this, but I've stopped what I was doing and answered that message.
[00:06:25] CJ: Right.
[00:06:25] Duke: You know what I mean? And now it's like, you know, we all should be careful about the kinds of messages we. But it's still, I took time to look at that message and it's just like, this is totally inappropriate for me, but you could have asked a hundred people, a thousand extra people in one shot.
[00:06:41] CJ: yeah.
[00:06:42] Duke: So before you send a DM, first, do I know this person? Do I know they can help me with this? And B is it something that's just fits better in another.
[00:06:54] CJ: Yeah, let me elaborate on that too. A little bit duke, right? is the question that you're asking me something that you can't get an answer for somewhere else quicker or better or more efficiently? right. Like I've got, I've got a, I've got a I've got a particular set of skills. Right. And , and, if you're coming to me for help, right.
Like come to me about that particular set of skills. Right. Cause you can't get that anywhere else, you know? So that's where the value that I'm capable of bringing to the table exists. Don't come to me and ask me something that you can search on community. Like sure. I'll, I'll still help you. But you're wasting your time with.
And I said that specifically. I'm not saying that you're wasting my time. I'm saying that you're wasting the amount of time that I'm giving you. So if you get my attention of all the things in the world that you can ask me about, if you're asking me about something that you can Google search, you just, was it my attention, right?
You wasted all the value you could have gotten from me by asking me something that you could have Google searched.
[00:08:00] Duke: You know what? That makes a, like, we have one more point in this section, but that is too good. A segue. That's too good. A segue we'll put the last point in the honorable mentions. Cause what you're really talking about Corey is prove to me that you've done something right.
[00:08:17] CJ: Yeah, And, and then in two different ways on that duke, right? Prove to me that you've done something with the thing that you have that you need help with, but also prove to me that you've done something in terms of understanding who I.
[00:08:29] Duke: Hmm.
[00:08:30] CJ: Right. Because again, someone comes to you for service portal help.
You've never done a service portal portal thing in your life. And it's like you, did they do any research or did they just know Robert fedoras, a big name in service now? And let me send him a DM,
[00:08:45] Duke: Yeah.
[00:08:46] CJ: and you respond and they wasted your response, right. They wasted getting a response from the duke.
[00:08:53] Duke: You took another, like you, you added another one in there that I wasn't really counting on. Right. So you just, we had proof of work and you're doing proof of it in an investigation. Right. Do you know who I am and that I can do this, but another thing I hope to see is proof of thought, it's not enough that you say, like, I have a script, here's the error. what do you think that error might mean? have you, have you gone down any rabbit holes
[00:09:18] CJ: right.
[00:09:19] Duke: and, and it shows me that a, you're at least thinking, right. You're giving me some value with that, but okay, let's say there's 10 possible reasons why this failed.
If you even get three of those outta my way cheaper, you've done me a huge favor.
[00:09:34] CJ: And it allows me to know how you think
[00:09:36] Duke: Yeah. Yeah,
[00:09:38] CJ: So I could probably rule out a few other things too, based on like the process that I feel like you've gone.
[00:09:45] Duke: that's right. you've saved incredible amounts of time for both of us because it's like, you've already ruled out those three things. Thank you. Now I only have, you know, seven other things, whatever the number is, but I have less of them
[00:09:57] CJ: right.
[00:09:58] Duke: But that kind of like edges up into the next point in the proof section is that there is a hierarchy to help in that.
Right.
[00:10:08] CJ: Yeah, There is totally a hierarchy to help and is all dependent on the amount of time and effort that, you know, a person has to put into the help.
[00:10:17] Duke: Mm-hmm
[00:10:17] CJ: starting, starting at, at the least amount, right? The least amount of effort necessary for help. Right. It's the correction stage.
so when you think about it and you come to me with something and you already have a fully flushed out problem, you've got, some supporting evidence or you've got, you know, Hey, I've tried this, that and the other. And these are the results of that. This is my thinking around this, but I just don't know where to go.
I can likely jump in there and give you a subtle correction or a subtle point in the right direction and boom, off to the races. All of a sudden you're gonna get to where you're going. This whole interaction was super positive for everybody. Probably didn't take a whole lot of time,
[00:10:55] Duke: the best thing to offer a helper is the ability to correct you. The second best thing is the need to be taught.
[00:11:03] CJ: Right.
[00:11:04] Duke: God bless him. He's taught me so much stuff. but it would've been better for him. Time wise, if he could just correct me.
But teaching is like, how do I put this? Go to a carpenter and ask them what they have the time for. Can you teach me how to drive a nail versus can you teach me to be a carpenter?
[00:11:22] CJ: Right.
[00:11:23] Duke: Right. Well, I wish is easier for them. I will teach you how to drive a nail.
[00:11:27] CJ: Dude. I mean, right. I mean, it is very, it is very clear, right? Because there's a difference between teaching me this one specific task and then teaching me this entire body of work.
[00:11:38] Duke: Yeah.
[00:11:39] CJ: And I'm not a power tools guy. So I was talking to some buddies, he is a P he is a power tools guy. Right. Like he rebuilt his deck.
Right. And so I'm like, all right, dude, my, my porch is falling apart. So I'm gonna need a little help. picking out the right power, saw, getting up the speed on how to use this stuff, cuz I need the custom wood and replace this stuff. And, it's a few different tasks.
Right. But it's a, it is, it is much. It is a teachable thing. And I asked him very specifically, don't teach me how to be a carpenter, teach me how to use this power saw to cut wood. So I don't cut my fingers off because I coat for a living.
[00:12:14] Duke: I need them fingers.
[00:12:15] CJ: need the fingers. Right. you know, so I, I didn't come to him and say, teach me everything, you know, about building DS.
Right. I came in with, with very specific ass and he obliged,
[00:12:24] Duke: Because you made it easy for 'em.
[00:12:25] CJ: yeah. It's easy for him. Right. It made it easy.
[00:12:27] Duke: obviously correction better than teaching teaching better than what? Just tell 'em to build the deck for you. Right?
[00:12:33] CJ: Yes, right. I mean, I could have just said, Hey, Hey dude, I need a new deck. Why
[00:12:37] Duke: need a favor. I, I, I need a favor.
[00:12:40] CJ: Yes
[00:12:40] Duke: build me my deck.
[00:12:44] CJ: I know you, ain't doing nothing this weekend. Build a deck. I'm going out when I get back. I appreciate it. It, if it's done.
[00:12:51] Duke: but it's not that far off the scale of some of what people can, can bring to you, right? Like, Ugh. I got a question recently, like really, can you give me all of the best practices and, order of things that I have to build for an I TSM implementation? I'm like, like people go to school for that. you know,
[00:13:13] CJ: like,
[00:13:13] Duke: I don't think they
[00:13:14] CJ: send you my
[00:13:15] Duke: yet. I love this dude. like I'm not normal moral judgment. Right. He clearly had no idea of the scale of it,
[00:13:22] CJ: right?
[00:13:22] Duke: it was basically let me build you an implementation plan.
[00:13:26] CJ: Yeah,
[00:13:27] Duke: Right. And it was, that is not something you even do in an hour.
[00:13:31] CJ: no, no, man, like that, I got statements of work for that.
[00:13:35] Duke: yeah. You see the difference, right?
Correction is better than teaching is better than please build me a script that please build me a plan that please, fill this requirement for me. So keep that in mind. What, like in the proof section, proof of work, proof of thought and understand that hierarchy of help.
[00:13:56] CJ: Yeah.
[00:13:56] Duke: in.
[00:13:58] CJ: Uh, yeah, and this one I think is, is obvi it is self obvious, but you know, not often do you see it implemented, right? It's like get to the point. you came here to asked me a question, just ask me a question, man. don't song and dance it.
Right. Don't don't don't give me, you know, all of the, you know, Hey, how's the weather
[00:14:17] Duke: Oh yeah. There were a four building.
[00:14:19] CJ: Yeah. You know, don't gimme all of that or don't give me, you know, talking about 20 minutes talking about incident management. So you can ask me how to do a, a business rule to prevent submission of a, you know, whatever, right?
Like don't, I don't need all of that. If you came to ask a question, let's ask the question, right. Let's just be respect. Let's be respectful of each other's time. you, don't got 20 minutes to spin phrase this question and I ain't got 20 minutes to spend talking to you or reading, uh, the, the phrasing of the question.
Right? So if you're here to ask a question, let's just ask a.
[00:14:46] Duke: For me get to the point is don't ask permission to ask the question
[00:14:53] CJ: That too.
[00:14:53] Duke: like I mean, who's gonna say no to that. Can I ask, can I ask you a question? No,
[00:15:01] CJ: no, not at all.
[00:15:02] Duke: like
[00:15:03] CJ: thanks for
[00:15:04] Duke: there's somebody out there that does that, but it's not everybody. So it's just like, save us both the minutes. And just, if you have a question, ask the.
[00:15:12] CJ: Well, let's look at it from the other perspective too, duke, you actually want your question asked, asked and answered, right? So why are you asking permission to do that?
[00:15:21] Duke: yeah. Invite the possibility of no,
[00:15:23] CJ: exactly. Just put it out there now. Now I got a ch now I got a choice. Do I a, do I answer the question or not? But at least you've already got it out there.
So, you know, I've seen it, you know, it's in front of me. Don't ask me, don't gimme the chance to shoot you down. What do, what do you do if I say no?
[00:15:38] Duke: Ooh. Ooh. I just saw something too. If you ask permission to ask the question, you are assuming synchronization,
[00:15:45] CJ: Ooh, that's a good point.
[00:15:46] Duke: Hey, do you have a minute for a question is like, I actually want to engage in a conversation with you right now.
[00:15:52] CJ: Right.
[00:15:53] Duke: And I'm waiting on the other end versus. Hey, what do you do when you get this error message?
I've tried these things and, and then it's like, maybe they get to it tomorrow, but There's an asynchronicity that you invite into it,
[00:16:06] CJ: Yeah. I didn't even think of that.
and it's a really good point because now this is the internet, right. So I might be talking to someone in New Zealand for all I know. And, you know, so they, can I ask you a question? I see it two hours later and go and right back. Yes. They see it eight hours later.
And right back with the question, I see it 10 hours later, or maybe it's the weekend. So I see it two days later. And finally get around to reading a question. Look at all that lag time. like, just ask me the question when I see it. If it's something that's quick, maybe I just respond and we cut out like two days a lag.
[00:16:34] Duke: Oh, I hear you. I hear you. Oh, but well, I mean, we're, we keep on edging closer to it with everything, but the, it it's this whole idea of consideration of time. And it's, you know, the, the philosophy of putting others before you means that when you have need, you still consider their time above your need.
[00:16:54] CJ: Oh man. oh man. There's there's a whole lot right there.
[00:16:59] Duke: And I'm not even asking you to be humble. I'm just suggesting ways that you can get more of what you want. the deeper you consider my time, the easier you are going to make it to engage or, easier to engage and more likely to engage. It's like the w D 40 of getting help
[00:17:17] CJ: Yes.
[00:17:18] Duke: is considering the other person's time.
Okay. I consider it, but how do I take action on the consider?
[00:17:27] CJ: So that's a good point, duke, and it makes me think about this from the perspective that, you know, I know some folks will hear some of this and think, you know, might be preachy or luxury. But it's not really, it's really how to make friends and influence people.
right. Like at the end of the day, you know, you're more likely to get what you want, if you do these things and if you consider my time, right? If you make it easier for me to engage with you, I'm more likely for you to engage with you. Right. If you make your question. Easier for me to answer.
You're more likely to get an answer, right. Is these things that if you think about it from, from my perspective, yes, I'm asking you to value my time. But if you think about it from your perspective, where you're asking me to do is to help you and you're making it easier, you're adding, like you said, that WD 40, the lubricate, the process.
And that's the ultimate goal. what's so great about this particular theory here or this particular practice is that it, it, it, uh, it relates to so many more things, right? Like you take this to a consulting mindset. And when you're in, in, um, in the room with your client, All of a sudden you are able to influence the discussions a bit more by doing some of this pre-work upfront, This is all about. Influence in other people to get what you want. And, and yeah.
[00:18:45] Duke: oh man, that's brilliant that like, let's just, I, I feel like we need to take a moment on that. marinate around in it. because it isn't just, it's one of those skills that scales, when I'm asking people for help, I really strongly consider their time. I come to them with good manners, proof of work, proof of thought, trying to get up the hierarchy of help so that they're either teaching or correcting me. Right. And I get better help, but you can do the same thing in a board.
[00:19:21] CJ: Absolutely.
[00:19:23] Duke: like one thing I do whenever I'm doing workshops is I have a list of questions at the end and my suggestion for them.
[00:19:30] CJ: yes.
[00:19:30] Duke: So it's like, it's your option, but, uh, or you have these options. Here's the one I would pick because
[00:19:39] CJ: Right?
[00:19:39] Duke: And that's a form of them. Correct.
[00:19:42] CJ: Yep.
[00:19:42] Duke: Or, or picking, right. It's the same kind of thing. I make a decision. I give you a short piece of information now you're on your way.
[00:19:49] CJ: And, and it's, and there's a little bit of coercion in there too, right? Because you've already picked the one that you think they should do, and likely you're more prepared for that one now. but it's these little nuggets, dude. Yes. yes. And it's these little nuggets, man that. You sprinkle in, look, this is, this is consulting, like masterclass theory, right? you sprinkle these things in, in bits and pieces throughout like your interactions with your clients.
And all of a sudden you look like a genius.
[00:20:22] Duke: this is also like if you're ever in a place where you ask a question and somebody says, what's the outcome so that customer's trying to achieve it's because you haven't considered the time. Very well, right. It's you haven't given enough context. So to take action on the time consideration. Cause you could be a considerate person, but still don't know how to ask the right question.
Just contemplate the question and the framing of the question. Like what is the, the happy ending to the story
[00:20:48] CJ: Yeah.
[00:20:49] Duke: and not the script works, you know? you load enough information that somebody could conceivably, like, not have to do the research. So everything that we said in the proof section proof of work, proof of thought, proof of knowing who I am is basically the building blocks of the time consideration
[00:21:08] CJ: Absolutely.
[00:21:09] Duke: I think.
[00:21:10] CJ: Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. that's all the work of the time consideration P piece. Right. And then, and then from once you, once I know that you're considering my time. I'm, you're more likely to get it and that's what you want.
[00:21:24] Duke: Even think about if you, if you're a craftsman, right. I hate to say I'm a leather craftsman. I'm a, rookie leather worker. And, at the start I was so, I was just like, how do I do this thing? How do I build a key chain? And nobody's gonna like sit and see, teach me how to build a key chain.
I went and paid somebody to teach me how to build a key chain. And then the next time I was just like, oh, I will build this by myself. And then you take that to people and say, what is wrong with this key? then it's like this fire hose of information. that can help me make better key chains.
[00:21:57] CJ: Yeah, man, because I got the key chain in my hand now and I'm looking at it and I'm like, okay, all right. This ad just a little uneven or you didn't dry the rivet through here the way I would've did it. You know what I mean?
[00:22:06] Duke: There's basically an infinite number of leather key chains you can make too. Right. So it's just like, well, I could teach you how I make a key chain, but then I'm like, how many hours do I wanna spend on this dude on this internet
[00:22:16] CJ: Yeah, exactly. Right.
[00:22:17] Duke: oh, I see how you were trying to do it. Yeah. You got the wrong thread size, the wrong whole size.
[00:22:22] CJ: Yeah. Agree. So duke the, I, I think the next thing here, right, that we wanna talk about is the value exchange in asking for.
what I get out of helping you is a couple different things. One, it makes me feel good, I am not ashamed of admitting that I like helping people. right. I like, someone approaching me and say, Hey, you know, I've got this problem.
I've tried X, Y, and Z. You know, them thinking I'm an expert and can actually help and value my opinion. Right. That feels good. two, I freaking love fixing things.
[00:22:53] Duke: Sure.
[00:22:55] CJ: I am like, I will be very, very upfront and honest about that. Right? Like that is. My passions is troubleshooting and finding problems and fixing them.
Right. So you bringing me problems and, and, and allowing me to help you, do that right. And help you walk through that process. That helps me a lot. And then the third thing, right? me teaching you how to do this? Like through the helping process solidifies what I know about the subject. And sometimes right.
That subject has passed a little bit outta my memory and I gotta go back for it. sometimes I realize too that I didn't know this thing as well as I thought I did, or that there's been some improvements to it since the last time I tinker with it. Right. And so now at the end of this session, I have increased knowledge as well.
So all of the stuff that we've said up until now funnels into the fact. We love helping people
[00:23:49] Duke: Yeah. Yeah. If you can get it, if you can phrase this right. Maximize our time, You do us a favor as well. And I've. Just this year, this really profound idea came on me you know, those Venn diagrams, they got it's like the stuff, you know, the stuff, you know, you don't know. And the stuff you don't know that you don't know there is,
[00:24:08] CJ: of mastery. I
[00:24:09] Duke: yeah, there's this, magic that happens though.
Where I assume I know a lot of stuff in a given subject, like reporting or like. Resumes or, areas where I think I'm very profoundly knowledged and somebody comes and asks me a question that I have never considered, but I had the component pieces in my head to generate an answer instantly.
You see what I mean? And so you basically buy asking me the right question. You have created something in my mind, it's like inception, right? Like something new is in my head now. Because I just recombined other stuff to make that thing. So you're doing us a favor too. So it's kinda like the big Jerry McGuire help me help you.
[00:24:53] CJ: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right.
[00:24:55] Duke: yeah.
[00:24:56] CJ: and you walk away from, you know, something completely new. It's like all those neurons form a new pathway in the brain and all of a sudden you got something it's like, wow, I didn't think of it that way. Appreciate that.
[00:25:06] Duke: All right. So that brings us to our last point, which is pay it forward. And, It doesn't take too much looking around to realize that there is a, reputation currency system in the ServiceNow community. Right? If you have a reputation as being, very, like how do people know that Phil Swan is like super awesome at security G GRC privacy,
[00:25:31] CJ: Right,
[00:25:31] Duke: because he gives away all that knowledge.
[00:25:34] CJ: right.
[00:25:34] Duke: Right? How do people know that Tim Woodruff is. not only a developer extraordinaire, but, also an excellent development teacher. It's because he's got all those published materials and he makes time out of his day for everybody. So there's a currency in the system.
And if you contribute to the community with your insights, Not your, I got this micro served. Yay. see our last episode on that one. but if you contribute into that reputation system, then you reap the rewards. When you need something.
[00:26:08] CJ: Totally. And you know, for, for me, ever since I've been in the ServiceNow ecosystem, I have been utilizing the work product of other people who have come before me wrote it down and shared it. right. I've been utilizing everything that's been published on the Wiki and all of those cliff notes that were in the hidden parts of the Wiki that most people didn't know about.
I've been utilizing the, uh, the information posted on community. I've been utilizing information posted in places like ency gurus, right. I've uh, I've been, you know, utilizing. the information duke that you've been dumping, forever, both independently and, and whatever I've seen of yours on community and on the.
I mean, there's just so many, like John Anderson, like just so, so many
[00:26:55] Duke: Mark Roth off.
[00:26:56] CJ: Like just
[00:26:57] Duke: Chuck Tamasi like
[00:26:59] CJ: Brad Tilton
[00:27:00] Duke: Yeah.
[00:27:01] CJ: just people just dumping, dumping, dumping information. Right. Here you go. This is here's help Steve bell. Right? Like here's help.
Here's help. Here's help. I've been drinking at the fricking fire hose. So, what do I look like having gotten, all of that immense value from all of these people and then saying, no, I'm good. Uh, I'm not gonna help you.
[00:27:24] Duke: may like you can think of pay it forward, not even in terms of like, maybe you're not ready yet to contribute your content. I personally think you are like, even beginner insights are useful to somebody, but let's say you're not that person. You're not writing blogs for service now you're not whatever.
at least in whatever platform you're on, do whatever karma function they have market helpful. At a, like, give them the point bump on slack or whatever, because that has tangible benefits to somebody else. Like you're in the dev MVP program now. Right.
[00:27:55] CJ: I am.
[00:27:56] Duke: and the duke has probably been a strong contributor to, you know, the entry into that program.
Right. And it's like, but CJ and the duke is just some thing that's just floating out. What matters is the fact that so many people listen to it, right? So it's just like, if you give the karma, the platforms enable you to give that is a method of paying it forward.
[00:28:19] CJ: Absolutely. Yeah, man.
[00:28:20] Duke: Nobody likes to see that person on the community. Who's like clearly posting their requirements, get the answer they want. Then they post another one. Then they post another one. No thank yous. No likes, no, this is helpful. No correct answers. Everybody hates that guy.
[00:28:35] CJ: Yeah. and, and you, and you should feel guilty if you're doing that, right? Like you should feel bad. is a community, right. Like community means that we share with each other. We help each other. And that doesn't mean that I gotta give you all of my time for free either. Right. Like, I mean, there's.
there's a difference between helping and taking advantage. Right. Which hopefully we've kind of covered here in this episode. Right. But, There's a difference. Like I'll, I'll help you get to the finish line in whatever way that I can. But sometimes if you are asking me to actually build a thing for you, man, we gotta, we gotta talk differently.
Think about it, right? Like when you get ready, pay it for it, if other folks have helped you and they most likely have in this ecosystem, then help other folks too, when you get the opportunity and when you can, and you might have.
Experiences that will be helpful now. And you might not even know it, right? Like you might be a beginner and think, oh, how, what could I possibly do? I don't know, figure it out.
[00:29:28] Duke: We got a whole episode on that, buddy. It was the
[00:29:30] CJ: I know? right.
[00:29:33] Duke: we will put the link in the description below.
[00:29:37] CJ: because
[00:29:37] Duke: be our motto, right?
[00:29:38] CJ: yeah, I know. Right. And the links in the description below, but I mean, there's, this is so much, man. Everybody's everybody's experience is valuable, right? So.
[00:29:47] Duke: all right. We're at about 40 minutes of record, which means we gotta, gotta start doing some miracles and post production. So that's all the time we have today. Folks, we'll see you on the next.
[00:29:56] CJ: Later.