Understanding Trauma and How to Heal

Episode 14 – 🎙️ Understanding Trauma and How to Heal

What is trauma really—and why can it affect us years after the event?

In this episode of The Lion Counseling Podcast, Mark Odland (Certified EMDR Therapist) and Zack Carter (Counselor & Coach) explain trauma in a clear, practical, and non-intimidating way. If you've experienced stress, anxiety, or emotional overwhelm that feels hard to shake, this episode offers helpful insights and next steps.

🔍 What You’ll Learn:

• What trauma is and how it impacts the brain and nervous system
• The difference between PTSD and complex trauma (CPTSD)
• How past experiences may still influence your thoughts, behavior, or mood
• The role of EMDR therapy in emotional recovery
• What “post-traumatic growth” looks like—and how to move toward it
• Signs you might be coping through avoidance or distraction
• Safe, practical ways to begin processing past experiences
• How to know if therapy could be a helpful next step

💬 Whether you're a high-functioning man with hidden stress, or someone working through past challenges, this episode can help you understand what's going on—and what healing could look like.

About the Show:
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men break free, heal deep, and become the lions they were created to be. Hosted by Mark Odland, Licensed Therapist & EMDR Specialist, and Zack Carter, Counselor & Coach, the show explores mental health, resilience, identity, faith, and personal growth in a thoughtful and honest way.

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

👉 Want to learn more or get support? Visit www.escapethecagenow.com for counseling and coaching options.

➡️ What’s one step you've taken to start healing from the past?

Creators and Guests

Host

Mark Odland

Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist

Host

Zack Carter

Zack Carter is a Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling LLC.

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Mark Odland: 00:00

As you know, a trauma is kind of my kind of my wheelhouse, kind of the thing that I I work with every day. And so you have graciously become the the interviewer today, you know, pepper you with questions, put me in a crazy position where I'm Yeah. A gotcha question that I'm just gonna be

Zack Carter: 00:15

Totally gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. What's your what's your favorite trauma? Oh, no.

Mark Odland: 00:29

Welcome everyone to the Lion Counseling Podcast. I'm Mark Godlin, founder of Lion Counseling and certified EMDR therapist.

Zack Carter: 00:36

I'm Zach Carter, and I'm a counselor and a coach.

Mark Odland: 00:41

Our mission, help men break free, heal deep, and become the lions they were created to be. And today, we're talking about trauma. What it is, how to think about it, and what if anything we can do on our own to try to get a handle on it, to try to give some relief if you're experiencing that. And make sure to hang on till the end because we definitely wanna give you a practical takeaway that you can put into practice right away. And if you are looking for support, as always, feel free to check us out at escape the cage now dot com or check us out in the description box.

Mark Odland: 01:16

Alright, Zach. Well, as you know, trauma is kind of my kind of my wheelhouse, kind of the thing that I I work with every day. And so you have graciously become the the interviewer today, gonna pepper you with questions, put me in a crazy position where I'm Yeah. A gotcha question that I'm just gonna be

Zack Carter: 01:34

Totally gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. What's your what's your favorite trauma? No.

Zack Carter: 01:39

Oh, no. So no. Yeah. I'm really in in all seriousness, I'm super excited for today being able to talk about this because trauma is is a super difficult topic for so many people. And so many people are going through it and need help through it.

Zack Carter: 01:56

So, Mark, this is your area of expertise. So the the I wanted to start basic with how do you define trauma? So let's just start there.

Mark Odland: 02:05

Yeah. I mean, you know, we hear the word more and more in our society now. But at the end of the day, I think about it as anything that is emotionally painful that leaves that leaves some kind of emotional wound. And oftentimes, it's experience that puts us into that kind of fight or or, you know, run away, fight, freeze kind of situation. Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 02:28

And oftentimes, the brain stores that information in a dysfunctional way. Right? So it's you know, typically, when we go through something difficult, it doesn't necessarily mean it becomes a trauma because we think about it, we talk about it, maybe we have a dream about it, our brain processes through the information, and we learn from it. Right? With all the craziness that's on the news today, if we were traumatized by everything we see, we would be paralyzed.

Mark Odland: 02:56

We'd be overwhelmed. We wouldn't be able to function. And so our brain has to sort through this information. And, thankfully, most of the time, we can sort through it. But every so often, there is an experience that has a quality to it that overwhelms our nervous system in such a way where the brain stores it in the wrong place, and and it gets kinda stuck.

Mark Odland: 03:15

And that could be single event. Right? It could be being assaulted. It could be a car accident. It could be some kind of violent experience.

Mark Odland: 03:25

It could be a deep experience of shame or humiliation. Or it also could be kind of that death by a thousand paper cuts experience that so often happens in in our childhoods. And the sum total of all those experiences leads to this this wound that discolors reality, discolors how we see the world and and how we see ourselves.

Zack Carter: 03:48

Mark, that's that's such a great definite definition. So the kind of what it sounded like you were talking about for a minute there was like an individual situation that might have been traumatic, but then you talked about the cuts that are happening over the course of time. That Yep. That sounds like the difference between PTSD, so post traumatic stress Yep. And CPTSD, which is complex post traumatic stress.

Zack Carter: 04:16

That's what that's what that sounded like. Is that what you were referring to?

Mark Odland: 04:20

Yeah. I mean, you know, in a way, it's as you know, Zach, that's kinda one of the debates in the psycho psychology world is how to define trauma. Is it is it simple PTSD? Is it complex PTSD? Is it complex trauma?

Mark Odland: 04:37

Practically, as an EMDR therapist, sometimes the definitions don't matter quite as much. You know? It's kinda how we're conceptualizing things, but I kinda think we're all kind of on this continuum. Right? And the joke in the EMDR world is, has anyone ever seen a a simple PTSD?

Mark Odland: 04:55

Like, the person had a perfect childhood and a perfect life, and everything's good, and they they love themselves, and they have a high self esteem, and then they have this one bad thing happen. It's pretty rare. Even well adjusted people who grew up in loving homes typically have accumulated a few traumatic experiences in their life that really shaped them and usually carries the echo of a negative belief about themself into the present and into the future, and it kind of haunts them. And and so in my experience, there's everywhere in between. You know, if I do get someone who had a pretty, good life and they just had one single event that happened that brought them to therapy, sometimes that we can knock it out pretty quick.

Mark Odland: 05:37

We can get some healing, and they're out of my office within a couple months, you know, a few sessions. And, you know, with EMDR, typically, it's like, on the very short side, it's like six sessions. But the average client's like ten ten, 12 sessions, something like that. Mhmm. But then every once in a while, tragically, you know, you'll get a client you know, I know you've seen this too, Zach, where you you look at their trauma history, and it's just almost unbelievable.

Mark Odland: 06:03

Like, what brought them into therapy was this traumatic event potentially. But then you look, and there's a history of abuse, neglect, violent acts toward them or their family. And you're just like, how is this person still standing? How are they still It's it's it's it's almost incredible. And what can be difficult is if there's been experiences of neglect, difficulty attaching to the caregivers that were so foundational in those early years, trauma might look different.

Mark Odland: 06:37

They might not be able to point to this one car accident or this one assault. They might just be like, my whole life, I felt like a piece of garbage. My my dad was abusive. My mom had, like, never hugged me, and it's just like no wonder their nervous system is just all all all jacked up. Right?

Mark Odland: 06:58

And so in those cases, we still can do EMDR therapy or another validated trauma therapy to help the person. But sometimes it takes longer. Sometimes it's more complicated, and and it's it's it's hard. It's hard hard all the way around. But but there but there is hope, and that that's what keeps us going as therapists as we see that hope.

Zack Carter: 07:20

Yeah. Well, and and I've had a few clients that that have been like that where it's just just as you just can't believe what some people go through and it it's just was just nonstop. And felt like part of the thing that helped with the healing, even if it was slow going, was like relationships. Like, it seems like healthy relationships. So it's therapy is great, but it's also like a thing that could seem to me that could really help is also healthy relationships, whether it's with the counselor, with, friends, spouses, kids that also can provide some healing.

Zack Carter: 07:58

For sure.

Mark Odland: 07:59

Yeah. That that that's so important. And and that's why, I mean, even though, you know, on one hand, therapy is becoming more and more accepted in in counseling. There's less stigma attached to it. But then ironically, with a lot of the guys we work with, there's still, like, this healthy skepticism of, like, what therapists do and what their approach is.

Mark Odland: 08:20

And so that that's all it's

Zack Carter: 08:21

all valid.

Mark Odland: 08:23

Yeah. And there should be. Right? Yeah. So so so, yeah, I think it it's one of those things where when it when it comes to trauma, there's this sense that admitting that you've been through things doesn't mean you have to embrace a victim mentality.

Mark Odland: 08:39

And it doesn't mean we're gonna sit there and have a, you know, a a a festival of, like, beating up your parents, and they're horrible, and here's how you're a victim and all this stuff. So what I tell tell guys is, you know, honestly, it looks like you were victimized in this situation in this situation, but that doesn't define you. That's not who you are. Right? And and it can heal.

Mark Odland: 09:04

It can heal, and and it doesn't and acknowledging that there are places in your life where you have been victimized and it's one way or the other, that's not the same as embracing an identity of of feeling like you're robbed of your power. Right?

Zack Carter: 09:17

Mhmm. Yeah. That's good. Well and so earlier, you're talking about so, like, it is possible to work through your traumas. It is possible to heal.

Zack Carter: 09:25

That sounds like post traumatic growth. How would you define post traumatic stress versus post traumatic growth?

Mark Odland: 09:33

Yeah. I mean, that that's exciting, Zach, because there's been understandably kind of a negative spin on trauma because of all the the destruction it kinda leaves in its path. Right? But at the same time, there's been more of a you know, in this emergent kind of reality that if you can get on the side on another side of it, there can be a lot of healing, a lot of learning, a lot of resiliency that comes with it. Right?

Mark Odland: 09:59

And so post traumatic growth, their inventories that people can take to measure all the ways that they have become stronger through it. And, of course, as therapists were very, you know, very careful to say not to minimize it and be like, hey. It's all gonna work out in the end or or it's all worth it now. It's like, well, no. You never should went through that in the place.

Mark Odland: 10:17

But but you did make it through. You know, for a lot of our faith based clients, it's that idea of, you know, those hard existential questions. Like, yeah, God didn't cause this, but but we're promised that he will work through it to try to bring things together for good and to that we could still have a hopeful future. Right? And and so yeah.

Mark Odland: 10:38

So there there can be a sense of empowerment, of strength, of overcoming. And so I think that's important for people to hold on to. That's the other side of the coin. And for a lot of clients, and I'm sure you've seen this too, Zach, being able to come to a place where they can see the meaning embedded within the experience. Right?

Mark Odland: 10:59

So it might have been needless suffering when they went through it, but if they can somehow, find a reason that it can propel them forward, to help other people, to heal, to to be to be wiser, to be stronger, then it's not all for nothing. Right? Then then there can be that growth, there can be that almost redemption of that memory.

Zack Carter: 11:22

Yeah. Well, so how does one get on the other side of their trauma? How do they go from post traumatic stress to post traumatic growth?

Mark Odland: 11:34

Yeah. I mean, you know, sadly, it it takes a lot of people reaching a crisis. And and for a lot of the guys we work we're a lot of the guys that we work with, it sneaks up on them. Right? Because as a kid who got goes through hard things, there becomes a very normal belief that goes with that of some version of I'm not good enough or I'm bad.

Mark Odland: 11:58

And so a lot of our clients, they try to work themselves out of that lie. Right? That that lie is haunting them, and so they throw themselves into performance accomplishment and success. And that operating system works so well that we never think to question it, and we never realize that it's actually like a an operating system formed in childhood. And back to resiliency, that's incredibly resourceful and, and powerful for a kid to be able to do that.

Mark Odland: 12:32

Kids are amazing how resourceful they are. But then what happens is the the song and dance people have to do to avoid thinking about the trauma, to avoid thinking about the negative beliefs, to avoid thinking about their insecurities, they have to, do so much to avoid those things that it messes other parts of their life up. And and, you know, if we don't feel feel we need to feel face, we need to face and I know this is your your realm of expertise, Zach, with addictions and and compulsive behaviors, it comes out sideways. Like, we wanna make the pain go away. We we kinda feel the the trauma, the memory kind of, like, lurking in the side on the sidelines.

Mark Odland: 13:16

And a part of our brain becomes very good at saying, nope. I'm not gonna touch that with a 10 foot pole. I'm gonna drink. I'm gonna scroll. I'm going to do this other thing instead of facing the trauma.

Mark Odland: 13:28

Right? So so what do you do with it? I think, of all, it's recognizing that it doesn't make you weak if you've been through some stuff because you're human. That that's the bottom line. You're human.

Mark Odland: 13:41

Being honest about how am I coping dealing with this? Have I really faced this? Have I really gotten the support that I need? Have I really maximized the things that I can do at home even before I start to see a counselor or a therapist to try to assess? Like, honestly, do I have the ability to face this?

Mark Odland: 14:04

Do I have the ability to cope with this? Can I manage my emotions effectively? Right? And so there are self help techniques that people can do to kind of understand their trauma and to recognize it for what it is and to kind of assess, are there ways that I can work through this? And that becomes a little bit of a a tipping point because if if someone tries to work through those things and they're like, yeah.

Mark Odland: 14:29

It kind of helped. It gave me more insight, but I still I'm not on the other side of this. Well, that's that's what we're here for. Right? That that's why that's why we're here to help.

Mark Odland: 14:42

And for others, it might be like, oh, well, the trauma wasn't severe enough where maybe I feel like I'm stuck because of it. I just needed to face it and and kind of do a couple things to kind of work through it. Right? So, obviously, my bread and butter is EMDR therapy, research proven, validated therapy, been around for thirty plus years, helps people heal from PTSD, from big traumas, from small traumas, every everything in between. Right?

Mark Odland: 15:09

In a way where the healing is deep and lasting. And the saddest thing I hear is when this comes up a lot with veterans where they're like, yeah. I've been through the VA. I've been through the system, and they just told me that you never really can heal from PTSD. You just kinda have to learn to live with it.

Mark Odland: 15:28

Mhmm. And in that moment, that was actually helpful for them because there was some kind of acceptance or, like, acknowledgment of of their issues. But I'm just thinking, man, that's not true. Like, there there is healing. There there is a cure for PTSD, big traumas, and also the small traumas.

Mark Odland: 15:46

And our brains just need to reprocess it. And and sometimes we just need that kind of encouragement and and that kick start to let the brain work naturally the way God intended it so that it can work through the traumas, put them in the past where they belong.

Zack Carter: 16:01

That's really good, Mark. Well, I think Mark has an activity that if you're listening to this and you're like, hey, you know, I'm potentially interested in doing therapy, but is there something that I could do leading up to it? Mark has something prepped for you. But before we go there, if you're listening to this now, you haven't already, click that subscribe button, the like button, and leave a comment below around maybe a topic that you would be interested in hearing us discuss. We've got a lot of stuff that is upcoming that we're really excited that we've talked about, But we really wanna hear what what you guys wanna hear about, what you guys want to discuss, what want us to discuss.

Zack Carter: 16:44

So just let us know in the comments below. We'd love to hear it. So, Mark, kind of thing, where can someone start that might be an easier activity, you know, with trauma digging into past hurts is never easy. But where's an easier place to start to kinda help to start working through some of the stuff that's happened in the past that that we're struggling with?

Mark Odland: 17:09

Yeah. I think, you know, one of the things that people can do, and again, you know, do this, of course, you know, as as counselors trained counselors and therapists, we're always careful to, like, not do therapy over YouTube. Right? And all that stuff. Right?

Mark Odland: 17:23

So so that's a given. Right? If if if you feel like you've been through stuff that really activates you, that really revs you up, and it's really painful, yes, sitting in a dark room doing a homework exercise assigned by Mark or Zach might not be the best idea. You know? But there's ways to measure these things.

Mark Odland: 17:41

Right? So if you just go over your history and you start to write down some of the harder things that you've been through in life, kinda like your top 10, you know, hardest things you've been through, something like that. One, something just writing it down. That can be an important step. Right?

Mark Odland: 17:57

And I know we before our session, that was one of the things that I know you sometimes use with clients or talk about Zach, and that's, like, really helpful technique. It's it's in the EMDR world too. And a couple of caveats are just naming those things can be a great step. You don't have to shine the spotlight and dwell on any one memory for too long. Right?

Mark Odland: 18:20

And if you do if you do decide to open up any particular memory, a helpful thing to do is to say, okay. As I'm thinking about this memory from zero to 10, how much does it bother me? How strong are those negative emotions? And a general rule of thumb, if it's higher than a five, save it for therapy. Right?

Mark Odland: 18:42

Get some get some structured support. Have someone guide you through that process where a caring person who has some expertise is going to help you walk through it. If it's like, you know, less a five or less maybe, that might be manageable. It means your nervous system is still able to regulate itself. You're able to keep your thinking brain online and and filter those emotions through it.

Mark Odland: 19:06

And then things like journaling. Right? Things like talking to a friend, going on a walk with your wife. Those things can get the ball rolling. It can be helpful.

Mark Odland: 19:16

I think one other kind of outside the box practical idea, and some of these come from a book I'd highly recommend called getting past your past by doctor Francine Shapiro. And she's deceased now, but she was the inventor of EMDR. And she kinda, like, took all these EMDR ideas and distilled it down into a self help format to help people understand what they can do now and also why they probably need some EMDR at some point, which most of us do. But a couple of the kinda cool ideas that are that are interesting and seem too good to be true, but they actually kinda work, is to remember that we have some power over how we think, over how we experience a memory. And that when we tinker with our memories, we can actually reshape them.

Mark Odland: 20:00

Right? So simple interventions like Zach say someone's thinking that there's this image that's stuck in their head. It's really bothering them. Right? They had a bad experience at work, and and they can't get it out of their mind.

Mark Odland: 20:12

Well, if it's a disturbing voice, if it's the voice of, like, the coworker, know, embarrassing them or something, one of the interventions in this book is to change their voice to a a cartoon voice. Like

Zack Carter: 20:24

It's like Daffy Dog? Or

Mark Odland: 20:26

Yeah. Or or or or, SpongeBob. I don't know. What's the reference these days? But and then if you do that a few times, it's it's so ridiculous and silly that, like, you know they're not really that's not really their voice.

Mark Odland: 20:40

But somehow, you can't help but laugh and smile, and, like, it takes the edge off. And then the funny thing that happens is sometimes it sticks a little bit. So then, like, the next day, you're like, oh, I've seen that thing at work. Dude, that's so dumb. Like, I actually see Daffy Duck in the memory with me now, and that's ridiculous, but I don't feel as bad.

Mark Odland: 21:00

Right?

Zack Carter: 21:01

I love that so much. That's so good.

Mark Odland: 21:04

So that's that's one small one. Another small one is say it's not a a sound. It's not a voice. It's an like, the we talked about the image too, but another one specifically for the image would be, again, using the power of our mind. You take the image.

Mark Odland: 21:20

You kinda pull it out of the memory. And for any of you who have painted your own, you know, painted rooms in your house, it's like you crack open that fresh paint can and pull off the lid. And at the top, there's, like, this film of the new paint. Right? And so the exercise is imagine the image just kinda floating there on top of the paint.

Mark Odland: 21:40

And then you take your stir stick and then stir it up and watch it disappear. Right? Does it really heal the trauma? Probably not. Does it take the edge off the emotional intensity?

Mark Odland: 21:52

Sometimes it does. And there are lots of versions and variations of those kinds of exercises, but the bottom line is we have powerful minds. Our memories are important, and they help define us and shape us. And but they're not the same as us. Right?

Mark Odland: 22:10

It's it's just a memory. Right? And we actually have some power over it. So that's a couple couple crazy ones for you, Zach.

Zack Carter: 22:16

Oh, that's so good. I love it. I and I highly recommend out there if you're if you're like, that sounds kind of crazy. Sure. It sounds crazy.

Zack Carter: 22:24

Like, try it. Like, what is it? You know, might as well try it and just see what happens. Right? Yeah.

Zack Carter: 22:30

So good, man. Well, thanks for laying this out for defining trauma, for walking through the elements of it for us today. Once again, if you're listening to this episode and you've been helped by it in some way, please subscribe, hit the bell, let us know what you want us to talk about next. And as always, if you're looking for help, reach out to us at escape the cage now dot com or in the link in the description box below. Thanks again, Mark.

Zack Carter: 22:57

Really great talking with you today.

Mark Odland: 22:59

Yeah. As always, Zach. Thank you.

Zack Carter: 23:01

Alright. Bye, everybody.