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A conversation about cars, trucks, tugs and other machines of transport that flows like an ADHD fever dream, hosted by Hoonigan co-founder and 321 Action Action director Brian Scotto. Enjoy, it’s gonna be a bizarre ride.
S4 E24-5 Audio
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[00:00:00] Welcome to A Very Vehicular Showcase. What is that? We're not even sure ourselves, 'cause, hey, we're still making it. But it's gonna be a little bit of a hybrid of a podcast with a documentary. I don't know. It's just another way for me to tell a story. And let's tell the story of why we have to tell it this way.
So about a year and a half ago, I set out to do a project that we were calling The Brutal Mountain. And it was following some of my favorite people, which are the guys at BBI, on yet another attempt at going to Pikes Peak. But it kind of all fell apart. For years, I have wanted to tell the story of Pikes Peak.
This is a place that first grabbed me in around 2008. Look, I saw it as a kid, but I went there in 2008, and I got to stand on top of that [00:01:00] mountain. Actually, I got to ride up it in Mike Ryan's Freightliner race truck. He had 12,000 pounds. Uh, and it just, it just captivated me. It was something that, it became this thing I wanted to go back and, one, drive it myself, um, but two, I, I wanted to tell the story.
It felt so unique compared to all the other types of motor sports that I'd been involved in. And from that point on, I kept looking for stories to tell there. And I've told multiple stories there, from races to even bringing Ken Block and the Hoonicorn there for Climbkhana. And that mountain has fought me every which way.
So I should've known a year and a half ago when the opportunity to go finally tell the documentary I really wanted to tell about this mountain, where I got to follow five different drivers who all had very different stories and lived in very different classes on the mountain, I should've known then that that story wasn't gonna actually [00:02:00] happen.
And like all good projects, sometimes they just fall apart for a multitude of reasons. But we're not here to talk about why it fell apart. We're here to talk about the pieces that we did capture. So today, joining me will be Batum Burisha from BBI, as well as his good buddy, Steve Wetterer, and their story last year, and actually, really, BBI's story over the past decade of this mountain and how it has been an absolute nightmare to go and compete there, yet they keep going back, except for this year, actually.
And last year, we left Colorado with a bit of unfinished business on all fronts, which made me convinced we'd be going back this year. But like all things Pikes, it's completely uncertain and totally unexpected. And now, a conversation with Batum and Steve on all things Pikes Peak[00:03:00]
So the big elephant in the room is that the two of you, and myself included, are not on our way to Colorado for Pikes Peak this year. Right. Mm-hmm. Why? Yeah. Uh, uh, there a lot, there's a lot of reasons. Um, we needed a break. Last year was brutal, brutal. But we did well. Uh, but, you know, we prepped, we did everything we could, then the mountain shut us down halfway up, so that was an asterisk year.
Um- Can I ask a question, though? Has there ever been a year that wasn't brutal? No. Have you ever had a year where you just went and everything went swimmingly? No. Does that make you at all question- ... your relationship with this event? Yes. Uh, it does. It's... But this, it's, um, it's j- it's just something that you d- I daydream about that, that place and competing there, like, almost every day, you know?
It... There is [00:04:00] something in that every time, you're like, "Oh, I coulda, I could have done this a little bit better," as you walk away. And the whole point of, like, maybe u- use- e- exercising the last ounce of discipline I have s- you know, um, and saying no and sticking to no, and not going back, is so I can kinda reflect a little bit and see what's next.
I- What, what do you think the, what do you think the dr- the exact draw is? Like, if you had to explain to somebody, like, let's say I was a therapist who had knew nothing about Pikes. And you had to explain, like, what is the draw of this thing that is so difficult, right? I mean, it's like a Tough Mudder style race, but in automotive.
Like, what, what is the, the, the draw for you to- It, it's like a Tough Mudder with wild animals that you don't... Like, y- Tough Mudder you know, okay, I'm gonna get shocked as I go through this, I gotta climb over this thing. It is like- Is it marmots again, right? Yeah, marmots. Yeah. You literally, you literally could hit an animal at Pikes Peak- Yeah, take you out
and end your race. Yep. On the next corner. Yeah. You're like two, two corners off starting, yeah. Um, those variables, but the, the backdrop, the beauty, the camaraderie amongst the [00:05:00] teams, the, the kind of grinning in the face of adversity, the whole grittiness of that place, the grassroots feeling of it, the being able to rub elbows with factories out there as a privateer, and looking at multi-generational people and families and, and teams that have been there forever.
There's so much, so much that brings you in. And then as you come in, all wide-eyed, "This is great, we're back," you get kicked in the head and you're like, "Oh, I remember why, uh, I remem- this, this, this is gonna, this is gonna hurt." And, and Steve, as someone who has crewed there now for years- Yep ... and first time driver and winner, what is it...
Like, like, what, what's the draw for you? Man, I love the challenge. I mean, it's sometime... It's just really hard to put into words. I mean, I think about it every day. I open up my laptop and there's a picture of the car going up the mountain. I mean, it's amazing. But, um- I mean, sometimes it's just after a good practice [00:06:00] day and if everything goes well, you're just hanging out and having a beer, and just saying, "Yeah, let's go do this again tomorrow."
But- D- do you find it as brutal as, as- It is. I mean, it really is ... as Tim ha- but Tim have, or is Tim just making it brutal? I mean, it's ... Sure, there is, there's gotta be part of that. I heard this thing today called a type two activity, which is an activity that's not fun while you're doing it. It's only fun when you're done.
And I was like- Type two ... "Well, that is definitely what I'm into." That's, that's exactly. Here, I think you just coined it. I like it because I like chaos, and I get to blame it on something. I get to blame the chaos on- Oh ... on something, and, and still just go through and thrash, "Oh, no. We gotta do this." You know, the, I'm not the one who caused this, by no means.
But, you know. This is none of my making. No, no. I didn't put us in this- This is a mountain ... horrible situation. The mountain decides. Right, guys? No, but Steve, for you, I mean, do you find it to ... I- is that brutality something that you're attracted to? Yeah, I think the, the chaos is just one of those things.
There's always some new, something new that comes around the corner. You're like, "Oh, [00:07:00] crap. We gotta go do this, we gotta go do that," but I kinda like it. Yeah, and it's- Not I kinda like it. I do like it. I, well- Let's go do it again. It's fun ... he, he's, he's a extreme problem solver, too, so he ... You throw stuff at him and I
That's, he ... Like I said, he tries to act like he's, uh, calm and pragmatic, but he's just as crazy as I am. Like, he's ... If not more sometimes. Like, you know? But it's, it's fun to watch him go from being my buddy, then running a car there with Tanner, then helping out and watching the ups and downs, and still be like, "You know what I think would be fun?
If I actually drove." It's like ... Yeah. So, I mean, it- Just add one more car to the pile. Yeah. But, but it's ... It, yeah. I mean, for the first four years crewing and helping out with Tim and the team, it was just ... Get done with it and you're like, "That was so crazy. I would never wanna do it again." A week later, "Hey, you doing Pikes again next year?"
Yeah. So, the chaos. I mean, it's ... And you're doing it together with just such a tight-knit group that works so well together. And yeah, you're at each other's throat sometimes, but that's no different [00:08:00] than anything else. So, it's, it's awesome. Yeah, it is. It's ... Uh, you never know that you're in the adventure when you're going through it, you know?
But then you, like what Steve was saying, then you reflect back even a week later. You lick your wounds a little bit, catch up on sleep, some of your skin grows back, and you're like That, that, that was insane. We just, and then, then the stories come, and then- Mm-hmm ... you know, then all of a sudden you're amped and charged again, and then the vicious cycle happens.
I mean, just, like, imagine the outside looking in. People are like, "Oh, cool, these guys get to go drive Pikes Peak? That's awesome." Mm-hmm. "I wanna be on that team." Then they show up, and they're like, "What the hell is going on here?" No sleep, altitude sickness. Yeah. No food. Only food for this five minutes. No food after that.
Yeah, that's it exactly. It's gonna rain, it's gonna be 90 degrees, and also 30 degrees. And then altitude sickness again. Yeah. And then, like, 70% of your sleep is in the back of an F-250. Yeah, yeah. And by the way, if you sleep for too long, you get altitude sickness. Yep, and if you don't sleep enough, you get dizzy and get altitude sickness.
Where do I sign up, guys? Yeah. Sounds like an awesome vacation. By the way, you also shouldn't [00:09:00] drink caffeine, but you need caffeine to stay awake the whole time. Copious amounts of it. But then that's gonna hurt you. Sign me up. Yeah. Yep. How, how did, uh, for you, but Tim, how did, like, Pikes Peak first, like, kind of find you?
Um, w- Pikes Peak found me, long story short, uh, by a guy named Jeff Zwart. You know, we, BBI was rolling, um, and we've, we've obviously heard of Jeff. He, he was a local to us in Southern California at the time. And, uh, in 2012, he came rolling into the shop and just walked right past the front desk, right in the back, and, uh, I was like, "Oh, hey."
And then he looks, like, "There you are." I'm like, "There you are." And then we started talking and he said, "Hey, I drove a 2010 GT2 RS street car, won that class, and I drove a cup car, won that class. Uh, but you know what'd be really cool is if I mix those two and put the turbo in the cup, you know, the agility and the light weight of the cup and the geometry and then the, the horsepower and grunt of the turbo [00:10:00] for the altitude."
And I was like, "Well, we can do that," because we've been building high horsepower, um, turbo engines that, that can survive for quite a while. So we literally just took one of our just very standard, we call them the B8 engine, which is 800 horsepower to the ground, and kind of retooled it and put it in the car.
And 800 horsepower in 2013 was a lot of power in a 911. Yeah. And to be- Like, now it seems a little more normal, but- Now your dailies are doing it, you know? Yeah, but back then it was, it was unique. Yeah, and that, that t- that hooked me. We went out there and I did not know what to expect, and we get there and I w- and I was just blown away.
And then from then on I've, I've been obsessing over that place and figuring out, like, how can we do better? And you know, before that you're working for Portion- Porsche Motorsports, you're working in road racing. I mean, you have sort of like the ideal job for someone who wants to go into motorsports. You leave all of that to go do B- go do BBI.
Um, did you ever think that you'd end up going and making Pikes Peak like sort of what the company revolves [00:11:00] around in terms of, like, its storytelling? No, never, I, I never thought that ... In 2012 and a half, whenever, before, like, a day before Jeff showed up, I never thought we'd be there. I, I always loved it and I watched it.
Um, even as a kid, um, I watched when, like, Chevy was there, when it was all dirt on Speed TV. There- Worldwide Sports. That's what it was, yes. And- Wide World of Sports. Yeah, and I remember them talking, they left the tailgate open, they were cheating or whatever it was, but I just remember how cool that was.
But I never thought that we would build our brand identity around that mountain. Yeah. Never. And then there you are. You, we pivoted, fell in love with it, and just said, we gotta, we gotta do this and make a business out of it because it's too cool to, like, le- you know, just sit back on the sideline and watch other people do it.
And I've, from then on I was like, "This will be my thing that I get to go do," and I, and that's kind of how we did it. And then '13, '14, '15, he got first in 2015, we took a break till 2019, and then that's when ... 30 days till [00:12:00] the Sunday when we're running the car at Pikes Peak
During those times, I was daydreaming about it the whole time. Got a 991 Cup car and I was like, "We're just gonna build everything we learned on Jeff's car, everything we've learned from other people, we're gonna build, I think, our ultimate 911 to go in Time Attack One and see what we can do." In 2018, started building the car, and we were trying to build...
It was odd. Bought a 991 Cup car and I wanted to build a 1,500 horsepower 911. I was gonna try to break the top speed record in it and then turn it into a Pikes Peak car, and I was gonna drive. Um, that was gonna be my thing. Found out that we were gonna have a baby. Wife said, "Nope, you're not doing that. Go work on the car, be an engineer, but put somebody faster in it and go, go chase it."
So shifted the focus, and we weren't gonna do it, and I... You remember this very clearly. About a month before the race, Optima came on board and said, "Hey, I think we would... We're gonna team up with you. We'd like to do it." I'm like, [00:13:00] "Well, it would've been great six months ago, right?" But- If I remember correctly, it was like a 90-day thrash to get the car done or 60 day?
It was something incredibly small window I think it was 60 days and it was basically a rolling chassis at the time, no glass, no nothing in it, no wire harness, nothing. And so we thrashed on it, barely made it a... I mean, we made it to tech. The engine started like twice, and then we went and broke it in after tech at the track, went and did the first day without even an alignment on the car, came back down, did the alignment and started...
Anyways. And this is Project Lucy? Yeah, this is Project Lucy, yeah. Is it time to tell people why Project Lucy is called Project Lucy? No. Never gonna tell people that. No. Okay. That's fine. That's like a, that's like a... Yeah, we're gonna leave that one. Um, so then we ended up doing, actually qualifying to a time that we thought, oh, if we can, if we can hang onto this, you know, we have a shot at, you know, placing top three in, in class.
Because I remember after qualifying we were a 10th of a second off of fourth. Like, and I [00:14:00] remember, I... So we started chasing tenths. We went through the whole car. We pulled everything out, off it. We used to have adjustable sway bars, pulled it all off. Pulled cool suit, everything that we didn't need, pulled it out of the car, and then Raf got in the car and just...
turn it up and because finally the car came together. The chassis setup was there, uh, engine was great. So he, he put it all together and ran, um, a 9.23 up there in 2019, which I think it was, like, 9.41 was the old record, something like that. Mm-hmm. And that was, like- And what record was that exactly again?
Time attack one record. Yeah. That was the time attack one record, uh, which is a class that I've always really liked. Jeff's the [00:15:00] one who introduced us to that class, and it really was cool because it pertained to our business. It was a, like, kind of direct reflection of what we do on 911s. I mean... And to rewind back to the business, 'cause I think this is something that a lot of people maybe don't understand, is that you guys are not a race shop.
Mm-mm. You are a customer car shop. Right. Right? So it's like you don't go racing every weekend. You don't have, like, a full-blown stacker trailer to just go racing with. Like, you guys service customer cars, and a lot of those are street cars. R- yeah, yeah. We're- And you are known for building big power turbo cars, right?
Yeah. We were, we were building big power turbo cars, street car, and then we would go race sometimes. We weren't a race car that did street cars. We were a street shop that did... We touched, we dabbled in the race car world. Yeah, yeah. Um- But you weren't, like, champion. Right. Which was, like, really focused on going racing.
Exactly, right. Running in series. Right. Yeah, so- Which kind of made you guys the underdog. Yeah, and that's what... It felt like it, but it made it fun because then you bring your ragtag group of, of rad individuals, and you're like, "Hey, let's, let's go racing, and let's see what it's like to rub elbows with real race teams."
And that's what we always call them, real race teams, because we, [00:16:00] we weren't one. Um- Which is a perfect transition to the person sitting next to you. Yeah. So now you can introduce Steven, 'cause this is when Steven comes into the story. So- So h- h- how did you end up in this mess? Gosh. I mean, if I, if I could rewind back time, and I know we've been trying to figure out when did we first meet, and it was...
I think it might have been, like, an Optimus Street Car challenge out in Vegas- In- ... or at, like, a NASA race. Somewhere back in, like, the early 2010s or something like that ... 10, yeah, 2010, 2011, '12- Yeah ... 13. Yeah. Yeah, that's about that same time, right? Yeah, either way, we met, met at the track somewhere. Yeah. And, um, but Tim and I lived about, like, two blocks opposite of each other, and I'd walk my dog over in the morning to, uh, go grab coffee and a donut, and here'd come Betim and Frankie and little Beck, who was just born, and we'd sit down and just talk about life and what's going on.
And one thing leads to another where, um, you know, fast-forward through street car stuff, and my dad was a big, like, big power guy, so he wanted all the power he could get out of, you know, one of his cars, whatever, so he'd always show up at Betim's shop and [00:17:00] hang out and whatnot. And then, um, Pikes Peak rolls around, and I remember, I think I still have photos of Lucy being built, and it was, like, 30 or 45 days, whatever the timeframe was, and I'd just cruise over, cruise over with the dog, see what's going on, and like, "What you working on?
What's going on?" "Oh, yeah, we're going up to Pikes Peak this year." I'm like, "Oh, cool." So we watched the race that year, and Raf just destroyed it. It was- Yeah ... insane run. And then, um, go another year after that, I was going through some challenging times in my life, and Betim's like, "Hey, dude, like, why don't you just come up and work for me for this week?"
Yeah, I wanna- And- You know, I could tell he was, he was going through it, and I wasn't there as a buddy because I was at Pikes, but I was like, "Why don't you just come up? Like, you got some-" Two birds, one stone. Yeah, I was like, "You got some time. Come breathe some mountain air and, and, and work-" And I'm like, "Yeah, sure"
and work with the team. "I don't know what I'm getting myself into." Yeah. Like, yeah, I'll go work on some race cars. Like, yeah, we'll show up at the track, like, have a good time, whatever. Roll around, and it was like a mad thrash getting stuff done. I think you guys had just rolled off the mountain. I rolled in on, like, a Tuesday, and off we go, and it was just [00:18:00] nonstop for the whole week.
I think I slept a couple hours, which was- Oh, yeah ... totally- And this is 2021? I think it was '21. Yeah, that was- 'Cause I said- That was, that was '21 ... this was the three-car run. Right. Yeah. Yeah, with that- So you've got- With... And then, yeah, there was a three-car run. We had Donahue, Raf, and Tanner. Tanner was in the GT4, Donahue was in the GT2, which is called Sunny, and then Lucy .2, basically.
And I remember that year 'cause I remember telling you I thought you were crazy because it was already a lot of work to get one car, and you're like, "I'm gonna make it even harder- Right ... and bring three cars to the mountain." Right. Right. But it was a good year. It was a good year. It was a good year. Um- I mean, I do remember having engines out of cars the night before the race, but other than that, it was a good year.
There's, uh, it feels like that's always the case, you know? Whether if you're chasing something or you're just trying to, or you broke something, whatever it is, like, it just, it's never... It's never been like, "Hey, this is great. All right, we're gonna get some night, good night's sleep. Wake up in the morning, go do it."
It's just- Do you think that's part of the appeal for you, though? [00:19:00] Yeah. Yes. It absolutely is. I, um- I have the problem of not leaving things alone, and also I don't back down from a fight, and that gets me, um, and my poor crew and it gets everybody in a lot of, lot of trouble. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I heard from somebody, um, this year when they heard that you weren't coming, and they said, "Wow, it's gonna be such an uneventful week leading to the race."
I don't know- Not the race itself. Yeah. It's the week leading up to the race. Yeah. 'Cause, you know, having been there with you, you know, through multiple experiences, um, there was always the story of, "Oh, I heard BB, I didn't sleep last night and drove an engine out from California or the tr-" With all my interns.
Yeah. We're in a minivan. In a minivan and, and they swapped it out in the middle of the night and they stole parts out of a production car that was parked at, you know- Yeah ... at the dealership or whatever. We, we've, we've done that a lot actually. Um- But y- that's not a badge of honor. That's [00:20:00] a That's not, like, a good thing, right?
I don't, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. It- it, you seemed, you seem to, like, weirdly be driven by that. Oh, I am, absolutely. Um, what I'm not driven by is, is just things going okay, right? So, though I guess, I don't know. I don't know. That's r- that's for another conversation. But yeah, but then Steve came out, um, and we were in over our heads.
Tanner was doing great in the GT4 car, the Cayman, and Steve kind of adopted that program, along with just supporting us in anything that we needed, and, and not sleeping with us. And he, I could tell he was enjoying it, oddly. And, but, you know, I just... 'Cause nobody needs that, right? But he, I could tell he enjoyed it, I could tell he liked it.
And then, um, I, I don't know. I would just ha- and, you know, obviously having your best friend with you doing this is, it's a lot of fun, too, is the, the misery loves company. Yeah, I mean, what was it, from your perspective, Steve, to, like, kind of come into this and- I mean, I didn't know what to [00:21:00] expect, but at the same time, I think it just totally got my mind off of whatever was going on at the time, and that's what I find attractive to motorsports, is I can just fully focus on something.
And whether it's just being on the sidelines helping support my best buddy and his crew, uh, or doing my own program and just being fully committed, and I just absolutely love that. Well, I mean, f- during that period, you know, was it a lot of fun just kind of just crewing with the teams and doing- Yeah ... all that?
'Cause I mean, I remember, I think you and I had met just before that, but I remember coming in on the three-car team, and it was like, you know, you guys had expanded on a level. Like, all of a sudden it was like there was a lot going on. Every driver is in a different class, so you're racing in three different spaces, and the cars are running at different times.
There's, like, a lot of organization, and like- Mm-hmm ... that's not your strong suit. Nope. Nope. So, like, you came in- Yeah ... to kind of help, and you were doing a bit of everything, right? Yeah, yeah. D- um, obviously, you know, we'll get to it, but you eventually go to run... You eventually go and race there. Um, how much [00:22:00] of that was, like, a learning experience, being in all of that?
100%. Just seeing how, the logistical operations going on. I mean, getting these cars, number one, just to Colorado, then finding a space, not just for one car, but three cars, and then eventually five cars. Yeah. You know, it's just insane. All the support to get, you know, get the cars up on the mountain, find space for all th- you know, three cars at the time, and then it was eventually five cars, um, and understanding how everything operated.
And, you know, it was crazy. Quite frankly, it was just absolutely nuts. Yeah, I mean, look, for those who are l- listening to this and they haven't experienced a week of, like, what it's like to be there, I mean, like, explain that for someone. 'Cause like, you came in, had never experienced it before, right? You hadn't been to the mountain before, and all of a sudden you're dealing with practice, all of this.
I mean, give people an idea of what that feels like. I mean, imagine just- Showing up, rolling in on, on an airplane, grabbing a rental car, getting over to the shop, and it's, you [00:23:00] know, 3:00 in the afternoon. Engine's out of the car, or all the suspension's out, replacing dampers, what have you. Um, hoping that everything works right.
You're getting the car done, getting it all buttoned up. Comes around 10:00, car's almost buttoned up, ready to go. Fired up, you're good to go, load it on the truck. All right, now go back. We'll see you here in two hours. Yeah, you load up, like- You- ... a lot of times we're loading up at midnight, and- Right ... and we're, we're meeting at the truck and trailer at 2:00 AM so we can gas up, grab coffee, and start heading up the mountain.
And, and then the next day happens again, so you're like- Yeah, it's just not even time to reset, and it just keeps on going and going. And it's all at altitude- Yeah ... which I think everybody forgets how fast that fatigues you. Yeah. It was brutal. And then- It was... That was absolutely... Just the first time ever going up, I think we were practicing at, starting at Glen Cove.
Mm-hmm. And I got up there, and I got out of the truck, and I almost fell over. And I was used to being up in altitude, but I'm just... Next thing I'm like, "Okay, I need to sit down for a second." And then, "Okay, off we go." And your s- body starts to acclimate over a couple days, but... Yeah, 'cause then you get out of the truck.
It's [00:24:00] about 3:30 in the morning. You get out of the truck, and it's not like we're gonna do some stretching and group exercise. This is like, you have to unload this trailer quickly because n- we're going green in an hour. You gotta get the cars warmed up, the tires warmed up. Um, everybody has to be organized.
Driver has a drivers' meeting 15 minutes after. It's just this crazy cadence, which I, which I love. I think I do well in those situations, and as we've... You know, to Steve's point, like, he got to look at the back end of everything and kinda look over our shoulder, 'cause he's a very organized person. He, that's how his mind works.
He works, he worked- I'm glad it looks that way. Yeah. I mean, to, uh, to people like Tim and I- Do you hate this guy? ... it doesn't take much to look organized. Right, right. But anyways, y- um, yeah, the point is he, he got... It was cool to have my buddy... 'Cause you're always describing it. N- I don't care, like, wh- what we talk about here.
What... Nobody will feel it. Nobody will understand it until you get there. Um, and I know everybody says, "Oh, it's a mountain," but you do not understand the [00:25:00] gravity of the entire week, especially if you're... W- 'cause w- that's one thing that I am, is highly competitive, right? If you're highly competitive, you know, I don't care about sleep.
I don't care. If we're chasing tenths, we're chasing tenths. If we have to pull dampers off, and I look at my poor crew while they're just, like, fingers are bleeding and they're ready to go home. Th- we were doing shifts. Like, I, I would drive th- a half a crew back home so they sleep, pick up the crew that wakes up, and we're doing, like, these four hour on, four hour off shifts, and cycling people through.
Steve was driving people around, and that's... If you go through the effort to be there, then you, th- then you be there, right? And that's, that's, like, that's kinda the mentality. Maybe that's why I enjoy that, is because I, I do enjoy pressure. I do enjoy, um- My wife says chaos, you know? Mm-hmm. But I don't know. I d- I just do.
I, it's, I'm... That's a problem. I mean, out of all the- And it works well. Yeah ... out of all the different types of racing and events you've been to, do you feel like Pikes is the most chaotic of them? [00:26:00] Baja, I think I did that in 2006 as a co-driver. Uh, and that, that is along the same lines, but... It's, it's, it's different, but it has that same staticky, like things can just go way wrong at any time.
Mm-hmm. But, but Pi- Pikes the problem... I don't know. They both have- You would love rally racing. I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause I think there's something interesting about, there's a few races that still exist that are, like, almost from a yesteryear- Right. Mm ... when, like, chaos was acceptable. Mm-hmm. Yep.
Right? Isle of Man, Baja, Dakar, um, the Nürburgring 24 Hour, um, obviously Pikes, right? Mm-hmm. Um, these are these events that, like, still feel, like, really dangerous, but also kind of very untamed. It's almost like all those events you just said, you couldn't start today. No, no. You couldn't, you couldn't be like...
Y- you know, they, they're, they're grandfathered in. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. [00:27:00] There's not a, there's not an insurance company in the world that would insure- ... a new idea like that. Yeah, no. I mean, so, you know, after going, Steve, and, like, you know, getting into it- Hmm ... um, does all of this sort of excite you to go compete at the mountain?
Like, are you sitting there while you're doing this, thinking, "This is a lot of fun. I'm really happy crewing," or in the back of your head, are you thinking- I'm happy to help with Tim with whatever he needs, for the most part. But when it comes to competing at a high level, that's what I love. I just, like, feed off of it.
But when, when was it, when was it that you were up there- Yeah ... and you're like... So we were, we were up at Devil's, up at Devil's Playground, and um, I never for- forget this, and I still have on the back of my phone, it's still the, the picture that I took when I was up there. And just as the sun was starting to rise and you're looking down to Glen Cove, and you can see the W's and there's Glen Cove, and you can see all the way, almost all the way down to the start line.
And as that sun came up, and how it just, like, lit up the [00:28:00] whole mountain, I was just like, "Holy crap. This is insane, but I wanna do this so bad." And that was, that would've been the second morning that we were up there- Mm-hmm ... um, at least for me, up on the mountain. You see the cars run the first day, and that's great.
You're just kind of standing down at the bottom of Glen Cove, and you're just like sh- sh- shoot on up. Cool. But now you're up on top, and you get to see the cars run up from Glen Cove to Devil's Playground, and looking down across that and hearing it and just... There was something that just lit this fire, and I was gonna do whatever it took to figure out how to get up there and do it.
And that set off conversations nonstop up until this day of how to go do it. Yeah. So despite all of the trials and tribulations and drama there was leading up to the actual race, like, you actually had a really good result in the race, despite it being an asterisk event, meaning we didn't go to the top.
Yeah. No, and that's, that's the, the kick in the teeth. But- We ha- we did, we did really well. We had two firsts and a third. Um, Tanner Foust did first place in [00:29:00] GT4, Raphael did first place in Open, and Donohue did third in, um, in TA1, Time Attack 1. The, that was, I, I think w- the first time a privateer car, uh, team has ever entered three cars in three different classes and, um, been on the podium- Mm-hmm
in one deal. Uh, so yeah, 2021 was good. It was a great learning experience, but, like, if you, if I remember right, and this is where I'm gonna start pointing fingers at you. We're s- after the race- Is this about the conversation in the woods? Yeah. After the race, we, we dropped our shoulders a little bit. I sat next to you, I was drinking a Corona, and you're like, "Well, what's next?"
And I'm like, like, "How, how... You did great. Uh, what are you gonna do next?"
And then that's where, that w- is wh- Well, I said, "What do you want?" And you s- I said, "Why would you come back here?" Oh, yeah. And you said, "I would come back here 'cause I want King of the Mountain." Mm-hmm. Yeah, true. And so then we s- then [00:30:00] that spiraled into a disaster of 2022. Which was the Hoonipig.
The Hoonipig Project. Yeah, and I- I know that's, like, its own podcast. Yeah. But c- just run us through, and you were a part of this, too. You were there for it. Yeah. I mean, what, uh, I think that's a classic, um, your eyes were bigger than your belly- Yes ... in terms of what you thought your ambitions were and your ability to get it done, and we unfortunately gave you the money to go do it.
Yeah. Yeah, no, like I said, your fault. The Hoonipig got greenlit. That was really at, like, SEMA in November, right? Mm-hmm. We were sitting at that meeting. Um, and then we had to order a bunch of tubes with [00:31:00] Scarbo, and Scarbo started going nuts on a chassis, and then we started... And we had to build this thing.
Um, made it to the track. The car was just, it was just... W- we needed 18 more months. We have a few issues with suspension setup, where the car is kind of snap oversteering on me. Much better for that to happen here on a track where there's sand around- Yeah, yeah ... and gravel around the track as opposed to on the mountain where there's trees at the edge.
That was one of the hardest, one of the hardest years I've had at Pike. And, you know, it's not only Pikes. It's, like, the six... And I'm not complaining. So lucky to be a part of this. So lucky. But it's... When you're building it and it, you're putting everything you got- Yeah ... for six months straight into this, um, you know, your family's upset.
Uh, y- your friends are like, "Hi." Uh- Your team's exhausted. Team's exhausted. My vendors are pissed. We're, Amy at work's mad because we're spending every penny we have plus some. It just is [00:32:00] one of those things that... And then you get there. You're like, "Okay, this is gonna be worth it," right? Ken's gonna get in the car.
He's gonna kill it. That guy knows how to drive. Uh, and then the car lets us down. Uh, you know, like, we, we miss something on the engine. Uh, this didn't work. That didn't work. Back and forth, and there's no worse feeling to have Ken Block look at you and have that what did I get myself into here look. And I was like, you know?
So then we just kept going, kept going, kept going. To trying, finally get the, we regeared the gearbox, changed the entire boost strategy, knocked a bunch of... We tried to simplify the car as much as we could. I remember him at Pueblo ripping, and then I heard a, then I heard a, um, a tick. And I was like, "Oh, okay.
Well-" Well, we, we have to practice in the morning, and we went up there and grenaded the engine. And that was horrible. Um, and especially when we couldn't fix it. Flew engine parts, people, everything you could possibly fly out, and there was just no fixing [00:33:00] Humpty Dumpty. Uh, and then, then the r- then, you know, like, the adrenaline, your, everything catches back up to you, and then you just almost wanna collapse?
That's how '22 was. Um, so that was, that was tough. Like, I mean, that was a kick in the teeth. Um, but Steve was there the entire time by my side the whole time, watching, helping, doing whatever it took. Um, but he was also going through his own things at that time. Arguably the best opportunity I've ever had in my career, probably ever will have, is to, to be a part of that program with the Hoonipig, and then it didn't work out.
And that was, that, that was tough, because there was a lot of eyes on us. And when you, when you're, when you sacrifice everything, health, sleep, whatever, to get something done, usually when you succeed or you do well enough, it's like, "Okay, cool. Got it." But then you do all that, and all of a sudden you're like, "Ugh, never mind."
There was no like, you know. So we, in my head, "Okay, we're gonna rebuild. We're gonna put Ken back in the car." Um, and then, but [00:34:00] then unfortunately we never got that opportunity again. Um, yeah. And so we, we were sh- we were shook by that, because now not only will he not be able to ever see what this thing's made of and what we're, what we can actually do as a group, but, uh, there w- that was, that's just a tiny bit of the, the backlash of him passing.
Um, tiny bit of it, uh, b- but that, that was really tough. Uh, and then the, one of the best things ever was to get... I forgot who, maybe it was you, but somebody said, "Put Leah in the car and do a tribute run up." Pedal fitting done. Done. Harnesses, everything. Yep, all done. What's left to do? Time to go drive. Over the top with Ken Block on the roof, but Leah behind the wheel.
Hoonipig assisting climb to the top of Pikes Peak, 14,110 feet, and the climb is complete.[00:35:00]
And that was one of... That, that had to have been a highlight of my Pikes Pe- my Pikes Peak experience, was having her run that car up, have fun in it, and get to the top of the hill. It was crazy to see her do that. She was really young, and I knew we all had a bit of a fear of putting her in a car that was, like, that powerful and that much of a weapon.
Um, I know we dialed it back a little bit. Mm-hmm. But... And she pushed it through some sections. Right. Um, even though we asked her not to. Um- Yeah ... it'd be amazing to see what she could eventually do in that machine or, or another machine like that on a- She was fast at Pueblo, real fast- Yeah ... in that car.
She's fast. And then it gets even worse, 'cause four months later you have a fucking heart attack, dude. Yeah. Four months later, uh- Three months, whatever it was. Yeah, whatever it was, uh, had a heart attack, and that was, that was like, okay, dude, I'm almost dead, right? And spent five weeks in the hospital, in and out, [00:36:00] and then they did a double bypass.
I'm here right now. Made it. We're happy about that. Yeah. But, um- Like, how much do you think was because you were not, not taking care of yourself, running yourself ragged? I mean, that, I imagine that had a lot to do with it. Yeah. No, it did. I, I was... I mean, it, that does nothing good for you except, uh, nothing.
Um, but, you know, there was a genetic issue. There was some other underlying issues that were creeping up, and then it just let go, um- Yeah, just let go. And, and, but yeah, the stress and the lifestyle was not, not helping it at all. Um, but it, it was inevitable. I mean, and Steve, at this point, like, you're obviously one of his best friends, and you're sitting- Yeah
there seeing this. Um, what did you think when you found out that you guys were gonna go to Pikes again after that? 'Cause I think we all thought that it was over. Yeah. That maybe- Well, I mean- ... BBI was no longer gonna go racing, let alone Pikes ... I'll just back up a little bit, too, 'cause, I mean, the night before the heart attack, [00:37:00] we were just hanging out at, at the bar, and eating pizza, and life was good.
And, um, then f- you know, the next morning I'm like, "You know, you're gonna go fishing, I think, with your son." Mm-hmm. And, uh, all of a sudden I just, you know, didn't get a text back. Like, "Hey, how's it going?" Like, "Let's go... See you later on tonight," whatever. And then Amy calls me and says, "Hey, he's in the hospital.
He had a massive heart attack." And in my head I'm just like, "Holy shit," like, "We were just hanging out last night. Here's my best buddy." And I wasn't even thinking about how BBI was gonna go on, and, and racing or any of that thing. I just wanted to make sure that him and his family were gonna be great, you know, as best they could be.
So you fast-forward through that, and, um, get to the point of like, "Hey, you about ready to get back after this?" I remember- ... being pissed at you when I heard- Mm ... that you were going back. Yeah. I'm like, "What are you doing? Take a year off." "Let it be." Like, "You won't... Like, you gave us all a really big scare." Yeah.
No, it, it was- A- ... it was a big one. Um, [00:38:00] I pushed really hard through, uh, cardiac rehab, training. I pushed through, um, getting back on my feet, and, you know, and just trying to get healthy again. And I just couldn't stop thinking about, you know- Yeah. Here, here, and I feel bad for Amy, my wife. Sh- I told her things would be different, you know, in the bed, "If I make it through this, I, I swear things are gonna be different."
And sure as shit they are different, just they stacked way more on me. I didn't say how, but- It's gonna get worse. I didn't say- Yeah ... which way, so, um, because they're ... In the hospital, they're like, "Oh, he- half his heart's dead now. He's gonna live a sedentary life." Um, and I, I d- I refused to accept that, you know?
I was like, "No, that's not, that's not how this is gonna go down." Um, so we, we train, train, train, but the whole time I was thinking about Project EVO. Um, a- and, uh, Steve and I have been talking about this a long time, building something, uh, you know, at a air-cooled base, but, but throwing a lot [00:39:00] of really neat components at it and kind of build our little dream, dream 911.
Um, so we got back after it, and I don't know what happened. I think Mobile One ... Yeah, Mobile One contacted you, if I remember. Yeah. Mobile One contacted and said, "Hey," and they were che- they were checking on us all the time, but they said, "Hey, if you're good enough for this, we'd like to have a run up the mountain again, you know, with a car or two."
Um, and so there, there it goes, and then I was ... So then I'm back in the shop, m- cutting metal and w- working r- with the boys, just at, not at the capacity that I could be- before, but you know, pushing, and then fucking found myself right in that same spot again, like pushing way too hard, um, pissing off everybody around me, and trying to get Project EVO out to the mountain.
And we did, and then we blew that engine up, and then and then and then and then, and then missed all this prog- I mean, and to rewind a little bit, but Steve, like in that moment as you're seeing him getting back there, [00:40:00] like as his friend, are you sitting there being like, "I know he needs this, but maybe he doesn't need this"?
Like where, how do you sit in that moment? Well- I don't know, man. He's just as demented as I am. He- No, no, knowing, knowing Tim, when he's telling me like, "Yeah, the doctors tell me I'm gonna, you know, l- sedentary lifestyle, and I'm not gonna be able to do half the stuff I was able to do," I'm like, "Those doctors are f- a bunch of- Yeah, I'm writing a poem to that
that's a bunch of BS. Like there's, there's no way that you're gonna sit around and do that. Yep. And, you know, you bounced back surprisingly, I mean, all due respect, surprisingly quick. Yeah. But it was, it was really- Thanks. No, it was really good. And, um, so I'm seeing this happen. The EVO project starts to come together, and while you're overseeing everything, the most amazing thing, I mean, that's
When I think about BBI and up on the mountain, it's like the grit of getting something done, and how that team comes together to make sure that- those cars go up the mountain. They're safe, they're gonna be fast, and if they hold together or not, you know, we'll see. Right. But you know what? Most of the time they held together.
And Evo comes around, [00:41:00] and the whole team just rallied. They saw the vision that Betim had set out to build that car. And they went to war. And they went... They, they got after it. Yeah, yeah. It- Yeah, I, the one thing that I have found very impressive about the BBI team is that you guys are, like, a, an ad hoc group to go racing, right?
This isn't what everyone does as their full-time. Mm-hmm. But when they come together, it's like, it's like they get this one really rad chance to, to go do it. Yeah. And they all, even though they may not have the experience as the people who are, you know, in the paddock next to them who've been wrenching on race cars every single weekend, like, I think in some ways, like, it actually drives them more.
It does. Like, you guys have this really good under- you know, underdog sort of, like, attitude of, like, "We're not these guys, but, like, we can still do it." And I actually think it's funny, 'cause I don't even know if you guys are underdogs anymore. Yeah, that- Like, I think, I think you may still feel like you are.
Yeah. But I don't think other people... I think there are people this year who are like, "Oh, [00:42:00] BBI's not there. Good." You know? No, I- I know, I know that for a fact, of teams that are, have been testing the past couple weeks running up until this week or race week, that have said of all the teams that they've worked on, BBI always got it done.
And they're- Yeah, I'd, I- ... it, it, they're up against anybody. Yeah, I would put them up against anybody when, when they're really ripping. Well, when it's, when it's the one big race that you do a year, it matters even more. Oh, yeah. When you do 20 races a year, it's okay when one goes bad. You know? It's not great, but you get, you got next weekend, or you got the weekend after- Right, right
to go do it again. Yeah, right. I think for you guys, it was like this is the one event, so when it does go bad, like it did in '24, it's like you spend an entire year Ha- without having that, you have an entire year to think about how do you get some sort of revenge. Yeah. And I use the word revenge- Oh, 1,000%
on purpose- Yeah ... 'cause it feels like revenge, right? That's 1,000%. Mm-hmm. You know, and that's, so in '24, Steve, Page, everybody was up there, because this was our, this was our kind of like, "Hey, this [00:43:00] is, this is our comeback. The Tim's back." The team, the team rallied. They, they, they ran so hard while I was down. Um, and so we were excited about it.
We show up. I, I lunched the engine during practice. Jeff barely gets any time in the car. The little time he did have, he liked it, but there was no time. And then flying engine parts out, minivans, the, everything. Rebuild the en- we're right back in the same shit again, right? And then we're going, going, going.
Steve's there. Uh, get the car running again. Missed qualifying. It, it's just, it was such a disaster. Lonnie, in the meantime, is just ripping. She's, she's ripping in Lucy, right? And she's doing such a good job there. And, um, that, that year, the mountain, you know, everybody says the mountain decides or whatever, uh, she was angry.
She turned so many cars back around for reruns. Um, a lot of car crashes, a lot of mechanicals. The day just drug on, and on, and on. So [00:44:00] even Lonnie went up. Lonnie's run in '24, her first section time was nine seconds faster than her qualifying time. She was on a ripper. And three-quarters of the way up the mountain, everything was going great, they turn her around because of a mechanical.
Turn her back around, come back down, and we didn't have time. We ha- wanted to keep heating the tires. We didn't need to refuel, 'cause we always fuel enough for the, just about that much. Um, and then she went back up, and th- there was a, an EGT bung on the exhaust that worked its way loose, and it blew hot exhaust air, like a jet stream, out, uh, like a six millimeter jet stream out of the top, and melted the harness and caught the back of the [00:45:00] car on fire.
Um, and what we were listening to is, like, she lit the forest on fire and they can't put it out. And I'm like, "Is she out of the fucking car?" You know? And then what we did understand is that she was on a, she was on a hill, couldn't put it in park or get it in neutral, whatever, but she was fine. And then we were just thinking, like, the whole car's melted to the ground.
So we're dealing with that, right? And then we're like, "Okay, she's fine. We got radio confirmation she's okay. She's in the truck." And she was ac- she actually ended up partying up there and hanging out with a bunch of fans. That's awesome. Yeah, and just, and then- Classic on series. I mean- Yeah, yeah ... when you're, when you're mountain royalty, you get to do that.
Yeah, and just, just hanging out with all the fans up there, so that was actually pretty cool to hear. And then Zwart, we had to wait till... Somebody goes, "Get married up there." You remember, like, w- Oh. And, and it was just, it just, we were- Yeah ... the day was so long. We pulled the tire warmers off. We thought we were going in four minutes.
We didn't go for 35 minutes. Man, it was just... It was like the death of a thousand cuts, you know, where so many little things went wrong, that then [00:46:00] we're like, "Okay, cool, Jeff, just enjoy yourself. Get up the mountain." And as he takes off
Oh, oh fuck. Uh-oh, that's a tree. That's a fucking tree. That's a fucking tree Gets into second, turns third, and then, then I don't hear him anymore. I'm, I'm already walking back to look at timing and scoring and watch, try to get the, on the jumbotron to see what he's doing, and then I'm like, "I don't hear him."
I turn around, and all I can see is, like, a puff of dust coming up around turn one. It's not even turn one, I don't think. Um, they just lit the tires and the car went off. Um, and, uh, he just never had enough time in the car. And then we had cold tires, and, and, and, and, and all the way down hot track. It was just like, um...
So we... I'm, like, eight months out of a heart attack, right? Um, and a double bypass. We've blown up our engine, did everything we can to [00:47:00] get there. I'm broke. Uh, everything's gone. I feel, I think our car, Lucy's done, so I thought that was a total write-off. And then this car was basically a total write-off. And I just, I just sat there.
I was like what just happened? Like, the, I don't belong here. Like, I don't belong here. This is, the mountain doesn't want me here. Something doesn't want me here. And then, so we lick our wounds, get back together. Steve, w- we reconvene, and at this time my- And Steve, what were you thinking at that time? Like, did you- I remember I was standing, standing at the start line, and car takes off just like Tim described it.
I walk back to go watch the live feed, I'm like, "Yep, everything's gonna be great. This is gonna be a good run, capstone of a weekend." Um, then all of a sudden, I remember turning around and seeing Sander just walking up. Just... I said, "Hey, man," and he just kept on walking. I said, "Okay, that's not good." When Sander's not telling you what's going on, then, [00:48:00] uh, not a good deal.
And so I walk down. A bunch of the boys ran up to go check on Jeff, make sure he's okay. He's out of the car, he's fine. Go look at the car, and there it's sitting in the tree, and get all the boys back and just grouped everybody up and said, "Hey, guys," like, "Let's just pull this together, keep your head high, get it loaded back on the trailer, and let's get out of here, and we'll figure out something for what may be the future."
Yeah, and at that point, uh, uh, I was like, "I'm not coming back." Like, I, I can't do this anymore. And then, and then guess what? Um- The redemption year. The re- redemption year. So let's m- let's move, so this is where it gets spicy with Steve. Um, we get there. W- when I say there, it's like six months prior to Pikes, we're talking- And this is basically, not to cut you off, but this is basically the same cycle every year, right?
Is you go, you're kinda like, "I don't think I'm gonna do it next year," and then either inbound, "Hey, you wanna run my car?" or, "We've got some money to go racing," comes [00:49:00] around Christmastime, and then all of a sudden, January, you're like, "Okay, we're going." Well, what happened was leaving, or up on the mountain, um, Mobile 1 said, "You're doing this again.
We, we, we, you can't just- Mm ... you can't just end it like this." And I was like, "Yes, I can. I'm out." And then, um, it, we kept talking, and when we got back, Steve and I were, like, looking at this destroyed car. So we rebuilt this thing, took it to Monterey for Car Week, just, like, as a prototype, and drove it around the street, and actually had a lot of fun in it.
And me driving it on the street and, and, like, just having people go drive it around, Evo, we're talking about Evo, um, that, like, reinvigorated something in me. I was like, "We, we have to go back," you know? And then so after that, we put slicks on it. We went out to Buttonwillow. Steve and I were shaking it down, and then w- the day before that, I called Zwart.
I go, "Where are you?" Like, you gotta, or maybe the week before that. I go, "You need to come out here and get back in the car. You know, get back on the seat." And he got- And did he want to? He did. I think he knew he needed [00:50:00] to, um, for, for more reasons than one. M- uh, he needed to get back on the horse, uh, you know, so to speak, and he had, had a great time in it.
And because we sorted the car out, we changed a f- a few things, um, and then the car also become this, like, little violent thing that you could throw around and have fun with. And it's like, "Hey, uh, we're going back, and you gotta drive it again. You know, Mobile 1's on board, you, the same crew, everybody." Um, so he said, "Okay."
And then Lonnie ob- obviously, when the car came back down in 2024, we're like, "Oh, that's not even that bad." We had to just rewire it, fix that, and then the car, we messed with it a little bit and, you know, um, ended up in that time building another car. So then we're like, "Hey, let's retire that car 'cause it spooked me.
Let's, let's build another car." So actually, Steve and I ended up buying a, a flipped 992 Cup car- Yeah ... out of Texas. We flew to Texas to look at this thing, and it just looks like God picked it up and threw it across a field, and it's just like, [00:51:00] there's it was just, like, a ball of a car. But then it came with a brand-new Porsche chassis.
And so- Brand-new tub. Yeah, brand-new tub. So we made a deal with them, um, and then built this thing up to be a, a pretty badass twin-turbo Cup car. And all the things we learned from the Hoonipig engine, basically this thing has the same architecture of that, almost the same engine as the Hoonipig. Um, and then Sander did all the electronics.
It's a really, really fun car to drive. I just drove it two weeks ago at S- uh, Sonoma, and actually got dusted by Leah in the 993. So this is Dixie. This is Dixie. Um, and so w- we go back and start planning these two cars because we need Lonnie to have another shot, and we need Jeff to have another shot, and this is redemption for us.
And then Steve, he, uh, he's like, "You know, I, I really wanna do that GT4 class." And for me- I think the GT4 class is a relatively good way to enter that place because it, it's, it [00:52:00] doesn't require as many crew. You can't touch the car as much. You c- it's not like this whole custom one-off thing. Uh, you kinda have to run it as they s- uh, as like the AC- Yeah
or the... Yeah. You have to run it- So it's all homologated, so. Yeah, it's a hal- homologated series, so- It's a driver's event. So he's telling me this in winter, right? And we, we're, we're skiing. Uh, where were we? We were in Mam- We were in Mammoth, I think. Yeah ... Mammoth. Yeah. We, we... Then he's like, "Hey, man, come over here real quick.
We gotta take a call with McLaren." I'm like, "What?" So we take a call with McLaren. We're talking about... So he's looking already at which car is gonna be the best in the GT4 class because now they opened up for the turbo class as well. And then he's like, "Hey, man, you wanna go to Daytona?" I'm like, "Cool." Go, we went, met, met with Aston Martin.
I think you met with BMW on your own. So he's just trying to figure out and looking at which car has the, the best, um, chances within the rule set, and landed on Aston Martin. So we, we took a red-eye out of, I think Orange County or LA or whatever, down to Daytona, landed at Daytona, went to the track, had the meetings, basically came back home.
We were at the [00:53:00] w- uh, and this is al- also Donny, who was already like, "Hey, we're running," right? So, and we're teaming up with Porsche Colorado Springs, so this is c- like a Porsche up to- So now you're up to three cars ... now we're up to three- So you already... Yeah, you're at three cars now- We're at- ... which is already the most you've ever ran before
right. We're already matched that- Yeah ... which I said I'd never do again. Mm-hmm. And then we're at the Atlanta lounge, or the Delta lounge in Atlanta, and we're talking about it and, and, you know, I'm kinda like, "Ah, this sounds, seems kinda cool, but dude, can we just do it another year? We already have three cars."
And Steve's, h- his words he always says is, "How can I help? How can I help you?" You know? And he's genuine. He really wants to know how, like, what can I do to help you? That's usually how he end, ends the phone call. And he asked me that, I go, "Don't fucking run. Not this year." And he's like, "Hmm." How else can I help you?
Yeah. Is there another way? A lot like, a lot like that. And, but I, I remember saying that, and Sander was like, "We can't, we can't do this." Sand- because Sander came with us, um, 'cause, uh, and he's like, "We c- we can't do this. This, that's, uh, that's gonna be four cars." And- [00:54:00] T- he s- you said something to the effect, and I might
I'm paraphrasing or I could be exaggerating here, but you kinda said, like, "Well, I'm gonna run it anyways." Like, or you, you said, like, "I, I'm going to do this." I think if I remember in the interview- So ... I did with you last year, you said something to the effect of, like, "He's so stubborn he was gonna do it anyways- Well, that's-
so I figured I might as well just run the damn car." I knew for a fact he would've. Like, if I, if ... And, and this would've been, like, he would've said, "No disrespect, B, I know your plate's full. Um, I, I got another team. We're, we're gonna do it. We'll, we'll figure it out, and m- you know, we'll still work together."
Well, I knew that was gonna happen. And I'm like, "Well, dude, if my bud's gonna go up the mountain, I, I can't not be a part of that. I can't... I have to be a, I have to be in that." You know, 'cause then you have me. I'm like, well, now, of... I care about him a lot, um, this, that, you know, all the way down. And it was just a weird, a different element to it where when Steve is behind the wheel, um, I know he's one of the most pragmatic drivers.
He's very calculated and, and he's clean. Yeah. And so I knew he's not gonna [00:55:00] be a showboater. I knew he was gonna take this extremely seriously. And, and, uh, so I was like, "Okay." Also, I wanna point out at this point, his, um, soon-to-be wife is your wife's best friend. Yes. So, like, that double trouble for you there.
That was one of the things that I was doing there. So she, she's on, she's on that of like- Like, you could be in both trou- you could have been in both, like, good graces or bad graces by saying yes or no. Like, it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Here's a great conversation. We were all out at sushi, and- Is this a good conversation?
No, it's not a great conversation. No, it's a good... It's, it's actually a good conversation. Well, yeah. Okay, so Paige, Paige was so concerned for me the year before about what happened, and so, like, traumatized about what happened. I, she, she did not take that well, watching both cars crash and watching what we went through the whole week and all that stuff.
She's just like, "Well, you, you, you can't come back here." And then this guy tells her, like, very nonchalantly, that we are running... The car's already, like, being shipped over, or being built right now. I didn't, I didn't tell [00:56:00] her. That was the problem. It was that, hey, we hadn't done it. The deal wasn't inked yet.
And she's your, still your fiancee at this point. Not even- Mm ... not even yet. Oh, okay, okay. Not yet. Not yet. And, um, so we go out to dinner that night, and I think it was either before or after Daytona. Gonna go look at these cars, check with the teams, who can provide us the most support, et cetera, whatever. We go down that path.
But nothing, no deal was inked yet. It wasn't finalized. We get back from Daytona, she comes in my office, and she's, she's crying. She's like, "I just heard from Amy you're gonna run Pikes Peak." I'm like, "Well, deal's not done yet, so technically, no." Probably not the best answer. Uh, but either way, it goes, it goes on and on, and, um, she's like, "Why can't you just race on flat ground?"
I'm like, "Well, that'd be boring." So either way, fast-forward, we get, we get a deal done, and, and off we go, and start to set wheels in motion to kind of at least, you know, figure out how we're gonna get this all done. So to rewind a bit back, 'cause clearly you've been plotting and strategizing this from '21.
Yeah, mm-hmm. Right? Right. So you're there in '21. You go, you experience this, and you're like, [00:57:00] "I need to do this myself." Yep. So what does the next sort of, you know- Four- ... four years look like- Yeah ... until we get to '25- Yeah ... for you, while you're also helping Tim just make bad life decisions at the mountain? We're good at that together, so Yeah, yeah
maybe this is one of those bad life decisions. But, um, from '21, I got connected, um, at the time it was Eric Skermance who was, um, I think the program manager for Porsche Motorsport North America. And he's like, you know, we're chat- chatting about it. I'm like, "Yeah, it's pretty cool," like, you know, all these cars, at the time were all GT4 Caymans.
Mm-hmm. And hey, being in a spec class, going up first time, you know, up the mountain would be pretty awesome, really benchmark yourself against other drivers, 'cause it truly is a driver's class. Um, so year after year, going up and watching that class evolve, and then you see the other cars that are running.
Um, and then I think it was in '23 or '24 when they opened it up to all homologated GT4 cars. Um, and that really kinda set it a little bit further in motion. I mean, the [00:58:00] Cayman is a great car up the mountain, uh, but there's also other manufacturers that I think could really showcase what they have as well in the GT4 class.
And so that's where the conversations really sped up, and, you know, relationships, you know, really can help a lot of things move forward. And at the time, we had a good friend that was, um, uh, running, uh, Aston Martin North America, and he's like, "Hey, we've got this, got this new Vantage coming out. You should come check it out."
Um, so we did that, and we also talked with some other manufacturers, but it made the most sense to partner with AMR. And, you know, throughout those four years leading up to that point, it was just exploring and what would be, number one, what would be a safe car up the mountain? Number two, what would be a fun car up the mountain?
And number three- Which one of my buddies are gonna come up and come work with me to go get this done? And up until this point, like, you mostly had road race experience, right? That's right. So- So started out, um, a little bit in karts, and [00:59:00] then really BMWs. So first race ever was in an E30 M3, which J stock BMW CCA class, uh, at Auto Club Speedway, which is no longer there.
But, you know, imagine 120 mile an hour, you know, E30 M3 going around Auto Club Speedway. It was kinda boring, but we, we were pretty quick. And then, um, ended up building a, what was called a D mod E46 M3. Um, D mod was like you could add arrow, you could do some engine stuff. We had to be below a certain, uh, engine displacement for that to all work well, and, uh, had a great time doing that, and that car was hypercompetitive.
But then at the time, I, I really just needed to focus on work. I'm like, "Hey, racing's great, but I gotta pay the bills." So, um, focused on just a little bit on my career on, during that time, but then I, I just got this itch again, like time to jump back into karts. So just bounced out to Cal Speed every weekend, go rip around.
Um, they were doing, uh, LAKC races, the local regional karting stuff, so did some tag racing out there. And then, um, [01:00:00] jumped on the SKUSA circuit and did shifter karts, and won the championship. Um, can't remember what year that was, but it scratched the itch. You get the deal together with, with Aston. Yep, so we get- And-
we get the deal together, and it was, uh... It came together pretty quick. We had some help, but also we had to find partners to make the program work, and that's where TPC came in. And, uh, TPC, they've just been good friends of mine for a very long time, and they wanted to be a part of something that fits their clientele, and Aston Martin worked out very well.
And then just the backdrop of Pikes Peak was just... When they saw some photos of years past and meeting with Betim and seeing what he's done, they're like, "We gotta be a part of this." Yeah, and... Sorry. Yeah, and they're, they're such a great group. Everybody there, like, when Steve says a friend of his, you know, it's, it- that's a friend, you know?
And that, that group is, um... They're a lot of fun to be around, and they, they get it, and they... You know, and if you don't, you're like, "Ah, I don't know if I wanna go," Steve's like, "Well, I got the car." And then I have- the [01:01:00] team, and I, you know, and he dev- it, Steve b- basically built his team up around that with TBC, with BBI, with all the other partners, and then that's just kind of like a- Yeah
he's gonna, he's, he's gotta go do it. Yep. Yeah, I mean, if you got the car and you have the sponsorship and the team to go do it, then of course you're gonna show up, right? Yeah, that's the idea. I mean, AMR was so stoked to be a part of this program. Yeah. They, they really helped get this thing off the ground.
Uh, I had somebody mention to me, like when we were up at Pikes, "Well, all you gotta do is write a check." I'm like, "It's a lot more than that, and sometimes you don't have to write a check that big for people to really come on and see what you're trying to do." Yeah. Yeah, and, and band together and- Yeah ... they, they did.
Well, Aston had never run Pikes before. Never. So this is the first ever, you know, vehicle that they built that was going there. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and they built a car for GT4 racing, not for Pikes, so I'm assuming you guys had a bit of a teething program to go through or to get the car ready. I mean, where, where was that?
'Cause like obviously you're up against the Cayman- Mm-hmm ... which is slightly different vehicle, smaller, [01:02:00] lighter weight, obviously not turbo, but those cars have also been running there for years. Right. And their suspension is tuned a lot better now for that. Right. Yeah, they have a, they have a lot of laps up there.
Um, the, the Aston came out of the box awesome. So we had to, we had to change the tires out from a full slick to a treaded m- uh, motorsport tire, the AO52 by Yokohama- Mm-hmm ... 'cause that's a spec tire in the class. Uh, then we had to, within the window of what is allowed, we had to make the chassis more compliant, we played with ride heights, but we had to be...
They were watching us so closely, so, um, so closely. And w- so we had to operate in a very, very small window to make Steve comfortable. And, and we're doing like 10 millimeter ride height changes in the rear, up top, coming back down, seeing if he s- how, you know, the, do we have too much roll in the back? And he'd come back, he's like, "Yeah, it's too much."
So then finding that compromise between the two s- narrow windows of operation to make [01:03:00] sure that he's comfortable in the car, that he can do his best work, and then stay within the rules because we were getting scrutinized like crazy 'cause dude's like lighting the world on fire up there. And, um... And, and, but to rewind back a little bit, you know, even though you had...
You're, you're working on this for a couple years, if I remember correctly, you didn't get into the Aston until like a month or so before the race. No, I mean- So you had very little seat time- ... right? And development time to kind of get there, right? Yeah. I mean, it was like the, the car was supposed to show up, I wanna say beginning of March.
Mm-hmm. Something like that. And I'm calling the guys across the pond of like- What's going on? Like, where's the car?" Like, "Oh yeah, we, it should've been on a plane. It should be over there." Weeks go by. I call up Tim. I'm like, "Hey, dude, have you heard anything?" And next thing you know, a flatbed truck just shows up outside of BBI.
I was about to say, what do you do, like, check a tracking number? Dude, yeah. Like, I'm just sitting there and it's like, "I don't know, it still says it's out for delivery." I'm, I'm making, I'm making calls trying to find where the car's at, and [01:04:00] it, it shows up on, like, like Sam's flatbed. A- like, this beautiful brand-new white Aston and just like, he's like, "Oh, is, is this where we're dropping it off?"
I'm like, "What?" Is this BBI? Yeah, exactly, and it was, it was a, it was a trip. But yeah, the car was there, and it was late, so we had to get to work immediately. Um, and then, uh, Steve went out and tested it out at Thermal, and we couldn't be there 'cause we had Zort and, um- The two of us were in Pueblo at the time.
Yeah, we were in Pueblo. Yeah, we was in Pueblo. Yeah, we were in Pueblo, Pueblo, and, and Steve and half of our team were, were at Thermal, so we had the three cars going, three out of the five. Fifth car was Emelia, right? And that came in last minute through Mobile One, teamed up with, um, Porsche Colorado Springs, and they, they really ran that car mostly.
Yeah. I mean, they r- I shouldn't say mostly. They ran that whole program. And like I said, we had some of their team on ours, we had some of our team. We worked as one team. You know, we all... Is, which was great. Um... Yeah, Joe and the crew over there are great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that was also, I forgot about that.
Yeah, there was the fifth [01:05:00] car at Editions, so Emelia Hartford decides she wants to come race. My wife literally cried, not joking cried, not being dramatic cried. When I told her we were gonna run five cars, she just put her head down. I could see tears come out of her eyes, and she's like, "Why are you doing this?"
Yeah. And I was like I don't know, man. I don't know. I mean, at a certain point, like once it's ridiculous, how much more ridiculous can it get? Oh, that's it. That's kind of it. I mean, it just- It's just- It's like- It's already a circus, you know? Yeah, add another truck and trailer and a few crew guys and let, let's go see what we can do.
Yeah. But yeah, so back to Steve running that at Thermal. That was his first time, and I remember you and I are calling back trying to see how, how that was happening. And, and it, and it was, it was... That gave me a taste of what the m- month of June was gonna be like, 'cause we had split crews, communication, organization, five trucks, five trailers, thousands of gallons of diesel, hundreds of race tires.
Um, no, that's exaggerating. We have five sets per car. Well, five times five. Yeah. I believe, yeah. Right? A lot. A lot. Yeah. That's, that's a lot- Yeah, and- ... in, in the world of math. Yeah, and that's a lot of maths. And then, [01:06:00] um, but he, he said, he reported back, I remember we were talking, he's, he's like, "Hey, the, the car's great."
Yeah, so how did the thermal test go? Thermal test went great. I mean, we showed up, um, and we had a lead eng- program eng- pro- program manager, uh, from AMR show up as well. So two days, get the car, just shake down, see what's going on. And out of the box, it was pretty solid. It... We were just running on the, the lowest power setting just to kind of feel things out, and it was really compliant.
Almost too compliant from where we, where we at with the AO52s on there, which is a great tire. It is a solid tire for the class. Um, and we just kept on working it, tweaking it, and then fi- like, after two days it was like, "Well, shoot, we can pack up and get out of here. We don't really need to spend much more time.
This thing's ready to go." Um- Is that the only time that you drove it before it went to the mountain? Yes. Wait, really? Yeah. So you drove the car once? Two days. Two days of Thermal. It, it really, I mean, it was probably, like, maybe- And technically that's driving it once. Yeah. But Yeah. Yeah, maybe, maybe, like, a couple hours [01:07:00] in it, and then that was, it was ready to go.
I think we maybe went to Pueblo one day before we went up. Yep, we did a shakedown in Pueblo. Sh- yeah, just to kind of a little, something a little bit more at altitude. Week, week of or week before. We, yeah. Yeah. Because you always wanna do an altitude test, and for some reason you can be perfect here in California, and we get to Colorado and weird shit breaks.
Yeah. Like, off the trailer. So, uh, we wanted to shake out one thing- And I think that's, like, one of the biggest challenges of Pikes Peak- ... that was hitting the mountain. Yeah ... of guys just showing up and not really accounting for knowing that, hey, you're going up a mountain, but when you're starting at 9,000 feet- I mean, it does a lot of weird things to cars.
If, yeah. Cooling is a big one. I know. Yeah. I know. We chased a, we chased a problem with the Hoonicorn three different trips, cost us a million dollars. Oh, my God. I know. Um, okay, so I mean, let's, so we get into it, right? Yep. So you're there, you're at Pikes. Uh, you have spent four years now driving up and down that road in probably a series of different F-450s, F-350s-
probably rental cars. Yep. You now [01:08:00] finally get to go at it at speed. I mean, what was that first moment in practice for you? I remember we were practicing, the first, first practice was, we were starting in, um, Glen- Glen Cove, I think. Yep ... running up to Devils, and pulling the car off the trailer, and just, I just stepped outside the car, kind of leaned up against it, and just looked up at the mountain, just, like, had a big sigh, like, "We're finally here, finally doing it."
That's cool. And then as the sun starts to come up, I'm getting my gear on. We're about, we're lining up, ready to go. As soon as it goes green, we wanna just get at least first pass in to kind of see the data that we get off and where things are at. And, uh, off we went. And, uh, going through, you got that little brake check shack that's right there.
I remember just like, just on it, just, you know, I think it was Jeff, he's like, "Just take it easy the first time." I'm like- Man ... let's just go. Braap, like bomb right on up, and, uh, car was great. And it was, you know, at that time of the year, you had just snow on the side of the mountain, and like you're still kind of, you know, a little bit sketchy here and there.
So I'm coming down the mountain, [01:09:00] pull back into pits, and things are just great. I mean, it was just like finally that first taste of really running the mountain, like finally here. And then, uh, Bhittim comes running over to me and is like, "Hey, um, they're not gonna let you run again due to some technicality," what have you.
And I'm like, "Well," I'm like getting back in the car, and I get, get in the car and go right over to the line. Like I'm ready to go, and they're about ready to release cars. And, um- Yeah, they're, they're very- Yeah ... they're very hot about not letting that thing run, and I, yeah, kinda Bhittim, Bhittim kinda- Bhittim's watching what he says right now.
Bhittim had his ways. There are eyes on it. Yeah, there were some eyes on it. Yeah. And rightfully so. I mean, it, we were, we showed up, and we had a really solid car, brand-new car, and, you know, I get it. But either way, we move on, and we figured it out, and, or rather Bhittim figured it out in his, in his ways. He got to run.
He got to run. We got, we got to run. That's, that's the point that matters in the end. Yeah. And the whole, that [01:10:00] whole first weekend was, was fantastic. I mean, car performed well. The, the guys that came in, uh, from AMR were all over, uh, that car and making sure everything was where they'd want it to be, where I wanted it to be.
And we just were starting to play around with just little, tiny settings to fine, fine-tune where we wanted that car. And that really set us up for the next, you know, I think, did we have two practice weekends? Yeah. Before the, before the main week. Mm-hmm. And, uh, then race week rolls around, and we were just set up, ready to go.
But after that first run he did, the sigh of relief I had when I could hear him coming back down, I was like, "Okay, he made it. Cool." And then, "How was it?" He's like, "Oh, it was great. It was so cool." I'm like, "A- and?" He's like, "Oh, the, it's awesome." And then that's when he's like putting his helmet back on. He wants to go back out and do it again, so.
I think it was like, "Hey, let's try, let's play with the ride height a little bit." Yeah. "Let's go do this, that, and the other thing." I'm like, "All right, let's go." And then, yeah. Yeah. And then Bhittim's like, "Cool, I have another fire I have to go take care of." Yeah, you good? Okay, see ya. Exactly. [01:11:00] Um, you know, you know, and speaking about that, like, uh, I interviewed you like a day or two days before the race.
Maybe it was actually, I think, the day before. And you were really confident, like extra confident, more confident than most people are, I think, the day before a race there. And I, I think a lot of people Tend to kind of use the, "I'm just here to get to the top," right? "I just wanna get to the top." And at that point, you were like, "No, I, I'm, feel like I can go and win."
What do you think, you know, gave you that confidence at that point? I think, you know, confidence can be a killer a lot of times. But, you know, in that, in that situation, showing up for Pikes for my first year, um, we had the team, we had the support that we needed from AMR, we had the right setup on the car, and I was extremely confident in my driving.
And I think the mix of all [01:12:00] that coming together really just helped set up what the race day was. And I don't wanna s- say that I was, like, overconfident, but I really felt that this was... Everything just fit so well. It just worked so well. You know, you get that perfect mix of everything that makes a team great, that ultimately is gonna give the driver confidence to get in the car, regardless of whether it's Pikes, out on an endurance race, what have you.
Um, it just felt right. Yeah, and I, I don't mean to call you out for saying you're overconfident. I think there's, like, a weird superstition at Pikes- Yeah, there you go ... where nobody ever says that they're gonna do well. Yeah, he, he's the first per- Like, it's if, it's if, it's if the mountain's listening. He's the first person who's ever said that, and...
That I've ever heard. What'd I say? You know? You, you s- Yeah, no, I... That you, that you were like, "I'm gonna go there to win." I, I think m- a l- most people- The superstition And I don't hear- Yep ... this at racetracks. Like, I think that the confidence is pretty standard in most [01:13:00] places, but there's a superstition about the brutality of that mountain, that if you go out there and you say anything other than, "You know, I'm just out there to drive to the top."
Yeah. "I just wanna make it to the top. I just wanna get the car and myself there in one piece," that if you say anything other than that- Someone's gonna- ... that the mountain will smite you The mountain's like, "What? What, what, what was that?" Like yeah, like, like, like, "Oh, yeah, you're, you're getting it," you know?
Yeah Um... I think that's, I think that's really interesting, though, because maybe, you know, in a way that, that, that I was thinking about it was, you know, I set my goal. I was coming up there to win the GT4 class, plain and simple. And I do, you know, looked at everything to make sure that, that we had the best opportunity to do that.
Um, and maybe it's the rookie mentality of not... Even though I've been around for a while, and hearing all these superstitions, oh, the mountain decides, and all that stuff, at the end of the day, it's up to you, driving that car up the mountain, regardless of whatever the conditions may be, to maximize the performance of that [01:14:00] car and you as an individual.
And so for me, it's almost like, well, F all those superstitions or whatever the mountain decides, all that crap. Um, it just... I want to go up and, and just perform. There's al- I'm almost getting nervous right now- ... that the mountain can hear me from here. I might get... Yeah, I, I know. I'm like, I'm like, yo, chill out.
Chill out, man. Good. So, and I, and, you know, with all due respect to everybody that may think all that other stuff, I mean, hey, that's, that's on you. But ultimately, you know, I set my course, and that's how I think about it, so... Steve said And I'm not paraphrasing here. Um, if we go do this, I'm not going to fuck, I'm not going there to fuck around.
His exact words. We're going there to wreck shop. Yeah. So we wake up the next morning. It is a beautifully clear day. Mm-hmm. It is one of the nicest days I've ever seen at 9,000 feet. But at 11,000 feet, porta potties are being flung around like something out of The Wizard of Oz. [01:15:00] Yeah. And it is a major windstorm.
I, I forget the speeds, but it was in, it was incredible. I think it was over 100 miles an hour. Yeah. It was crazy. It was one of the craziest storms they've seen, which was wild for us, 'cause we're all at the bottom, and we can't really see what's happening. We feel a little bit of wind, but apparently it's really bad up top.
And they make the decision to, once again, asterisk an event. And I just realized, every time you bring three or more cars, Tim- Oh, yeah ... the event ends up becoming a half mountain race. Hmm. So this ends up becoming a half mountain race, and I remember just this mood shift throughout the entire, like, paddock area, where everybody just was like, "Ugh."
No, you could feel it. And it, it's weird. I've been there before for that. But the last time I was there, there was clear weather. Mm-hmm. We were socked in. You couldn't even see up the mountain. It was, it felt like it was gonna rain any second. This was a completely different situation. It was a beautiful day.
Um, and it almost felt like something was just stopping everybody. And this was also the first time that [01:16:00] you actually had a pretty good run of cars. So all five cars- Yep ... other than a slight TCU issue with Donahue's car- Yep, yep ... are there at the mountain. Everyone got a good night's sleep the night before.
No engine swaps leading the week up. Mm-hmm. But here we are now with a half mountain. I, I, I'll let you start, Tim, like, kind of how you felt about, you know, that, that news. I, I'm li- I'm bummed, um, because they called, they called it a half race, so now we just get to get, go to Decline Coves. It's like, it's like a fucking practice day.
Um, it's heartbreaking. It's, I, I s- I suppose I understand safety and all that stuff. Um, but it's just, I mean, fuck, we've, we've, we've pushed so hard. So all the attempts at records are gone. All the attempts at setting any sort of time is gone. It's like, cool, you won practice? I just wanted to pack everything back up on the trailer and go home.
I really did. I, it was like, not because I'm giving up, but it's just like, it's not worth it. It's not worth right [01:17:00] now for us to have done all of this and be here right now. But then, you know what happened? Hoonigan! Fucking mountain heard him say that shit in your interview
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, the mountain was listening. No, it, it apparently- Yeah, she's like, "You're gonna win with an asterisk." She's like, "You'll have an asterisk by your name. But good job." No, but in all seriousness, that, that was a, that was a tough one. But hey, look, every- So we say, "All right, let's make the best of it."
We re- we kind of regrouped, slapped ourselves in the face, said stop whining. We're, everybody, at least everybody is dealt the same deck of cards, so let's play it the best we can, and the team did great So how would you feel? That was, uh, that was a tough one. I mean, you work so hard, and every day was just...
It kept on, the- our program kept on getting better and better and better. And to go up there, trying to take GT4 [01:18:00] overall, and then potentially set a record for that class, and that day, that comes down for an asterisk race, and we were just You know, what else can I say? Well, hey, we're here. You know, the mountain, I guess, heard me from the day before.
So screw you, but off we go. Yeah. Yep. Um, yeah, it was, it was... it was pretty rough, but, you know, especially the AMR guys, you know, they had put a lot into this program and were ready to, to really celebrate something really special regardless of how we finished. Um, because just for them, being there was, was pretty special, uh, like it was for myself.
And so, you know, you just wrap your head around it and, uh, say, "All right, well, if that's what it's gonna be, we can't change it. I'd love to go run it all the way, just keep on driving on up and- Mm-hmm ... see where we get to." Dodge the porta potties. Exactly. Um, and so that was it. It was just, you know, we're about, I think we were...
We were pretty early on in the running. I think GT4 class was. Mm-hmm. So I was the last one in the class to run, and, um, you know, just helmet on, ready to [01:19:00] go. So I think we... Did we cross out, like, did, like, a, on a poster, like, half of something like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, there's like the mileage, and we crossed it out and just, like, divided by two.
Yeah. So... So Emilia goes out first, so Emilia Harper goes out first. Yep. And y- you're out second. Um, I mean, walk us through that. So, like, now, now the moment's here. Yep. You're finally getting to go do this thing. Mm-hmm. It's, it's an asterisk, but you're still getting to race up Pikes. That's right. It's still a really, really big moment.
Yep. Like, w- what, what was sort of your, your strategy while you were there? Sure. I mean, kind of walk us through that, you know, the run for yourself. Yeah, so, like, um, you know, cars are going off. I think they have, like, a experimental class or something- Mm-hmm ... that runs or goes first, and so you hear the cars take off, and you're kind of, you know, you get the, you know, get a little antsy.
Round the car, getting ready to go. You start to see all the, the other GT4 car guys, you know, put their gear on, get in. And for me, um, you know, I'm just thinking about, you know, regardless of half run or full run, I'm just going through the first couple corners, [01:20:00] especially, um, you get... You wanna get the t- you know, some temp into the tires, get some pressure built up so then you can really start to accelerate as you get, you know, further on up.
And, um, so Emilia's car rolls off. Uh, I got my gear on. I think I give Tim a big hug, and my mom was there. I was... Yeah, you have to say hi to your mom. My mom, my mom was there. Yeah. Um, we had a, a bunch of friends up there, and, uh, my wife was up there, too, so you know, off we go, and, um, rolling up to the start line, you've got so many people around there.
It's always amazing to see the crowd that Pikes Peak gets, and these are diehard- Mm-hmm ... Pikes Peak Hill Climb guys, and, and families that have just been coming up forever just to see what's going on, and there was so much buzz around the Aston. Mm-hmm. The car looked so sexy. So as I'm rolling up to the start line- You just see all these kids just, you know, loving the car, and I'm just kind of in this element.
And now you get through the, the little, [01:21:00] I guess, like security gate where the guards are, and to roll up, and you're about two cars deep. And, uh, I get there, and I look over to my left, and there's my mom and, and my wife. And then Tim rolls over and is like, "Hey, go get them." And I think you're wearing my cowboy hat at the time- Mm-hmm
whatever it might have been. And you're sitting there for about a good two minutes or so, and you're just looking out and just... I'm just thinking through the first couple corners and, um, where things go to next after that. I've got a good feel for the track. I'm confident. I know what the car's capable of.
And then, uh, you know, here comes the green flag, and that's when it all kind of settles in. You take it all in right at the, right before that green flag goes off, and then it's almost like time stops And then I'm off the line. So And did, did you have, like, a particular strategy through the sections there?
I mean, it was [01:22:00] something that you had thought through. I know a lot of people attack the mountain in many different ways, 'cause there's so many corners. Mm-hmm. There's obviously, you know, there's literally corners named for rookies because people make a lot of mistakes- I was gonna say ... in certain corners.
Like, what, what was your thinking around that? Yeah. I know Jeff and, and Donohue worked with you on those pieces, too. Yeah, Jeff... So Jeff and I did a ride up in the mountain, um, early on, uh, just he and I, one time up, and giving me all his pointers. And it's, it's amazing to listen to him talk about all his break points or apexes.
It's like, "Oh, yeah, that little tiny pine tree that's in the crack on the left side, like, yeah, that's, that's my spot. This, that, the other thing." And, you know, you have some of those thoughts. But for myself, there's really... You know, you got rookie corner. There's a reason why it's rookie corner. You don't wanna be the rookie that goes off in that corner to then really stamp that name harder into what it is.
Um, and in the Aston, in specifically GT4 class, you wanna roll as much momentum as you can, 'cause it's still comparatively to other cars. You've got... You know, GT4, it is really a momentum car, whether you're racing up a mountain or, uh, [01:23:00] out, you know, in an endurance race, what have you. And, um, so my, my big thing was get through the first corner, per the year prior.
Yeah. And, uh, and then really start to build up the speed to where we knew this car would have been really fast through the Ws in the top section, but in the lower section it was really, really strong. But also, the, the big thing that happened that day, as you mentioned, obviously the wind. And in, while we were down in the pits, you couldn't really feel the wind at all, but as soon as you got out on course, there was...
It was dusty and dirty all over the place. So until you get some heat in the tires, you really gotta play it pretty careful on what's going on, and dialing in some ABS settings, TC settings to kinda deal with that a little bit throughout the run. Um, and then just let the car, let the car do its thing. So two days prior, knowing where the track was, um, and how things would have changed, obviously you don't wanna go send it into a corner, um, where it could be dirty.
And all that wind, [01:24:00] all the talk of the wind, the porta potties disappearing like in Wizard of Oz, was just, you know... That was in my mind a little bit. Um, but building up the speed, feeling out the track, dialing in the right settings that felt right for the car in those conditions And then just letting the car do its work.
That car was gonna be really fast in the W's, and then up in the upper section. But in the lower section, it has a really great opportunity for some good speed, and carrying speed through a lot of those corners. That car is very compliant, and it worked really, really well. So going off the line, uh, I just remember, I remember just making another look over to, to my wife and my mom, and then sh- hauling ass.
And, um, off we went in the first corner, and just got good amount of understeer coming through that as, as it was, tires are kind of cold and dust on the track. And then just let that thing eat. That very torquey car felt really solid, and as building up pace further and further up, understeer, um, you [01:25:00] know, came out a little bit more, which was great.
Um, the car wanted to oversteer a little bit more, which was kind of fine with some of the tighter corners that you get. And then I get to rookies and just sent it on through there like it was nothing. And it just felt so, so good. Did you have any moments? Or was it pretty smooth going up? There was one, I'd have to go back and look at the video.
But there was one where I just went a little bit too, maybe a little bit too deep, and just with the dust on the track, it just kind of washed out. But it was a, I remember a pretty tight left, and it just kicked the back end around and off we went. So like not a big deal, but it probably cost half a second, maybe a second in that, that position.
But, um, the car just... I can't say enough about all the work that the guys at AMR did on getting that car set up. And then between the, the team of taking my feedback of what I was looking for in that car, and just corner by corner, and just feeling the front of that car and the, the grip just continue to build as the tires built some temp in them.
It [01:26:00] just, that thing just sung. It was the most amazing feeling. What was your favorite sector during practice? Like, did you en- Oh. Were you prepping for the bottom? 'Cause I know a lot of people sort of drive the bottom, and then try to make a lot, especially turbo cars, try to make some time up top. Yeah.
Like, what was your strategy before actual race day? I think our strongest section, I know this from our times, um, but also just how I felt, was the upper section. Mm-hmm. Bottom section's great. It's nice and long and kind of flowy. You get to the W's and get the switch back. You g- Once you get past Devil's, and then you shoot through the upper section, that car just ate.
It was so quick. And go through Bottomless Pit, and that thing just... I remember seeing this video, and it just hugged, and just off it went. And it was, it was- We just hooked up. I mean, whatever we had figured out on, on geometry on that car, it worked really, really well. Um, and I think it was one of our practice days up there where I was fastest overall in a GT4 car.
Mm-hmm. [01:27:00] And not to toot my own horn, but being the rookie up there and seeing your name at the top of the timing, even though it's just a practice, that's pretty- And this is with other classes? This, this was with other... So practice three, and I think we had- We had open. We had open. Wow. And did we have time attack?
Not, no? No. Um, I think we had open and- I don't know what else was up there. I mean- Uh, not Exhibition, but yeah, the, you had Pikes Peak Open in that because we were together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's, let's go with that. Yeah. But it was- I think, yeah. Yeah, just, and how the car, how compliant that car was over some of the bumps.
The, the top section was pretty rough, I guess, from years past. It has progressively gotten worse. Um, but that car worked out really, really well. Love that section. It's just, it feels like you're on Mars- Mm-hmm ... when you've got nothing out there, and it's just crushing these corners that if you get it wrong, you're really wrong.
Um, but then the nice open, flowing sections, it's just, it was perfect. Yeah, 'cause you're above tree line there, and that's- Yeah ... where it gets really cool. I [01:28:00] mean, I feel like that's the saddest part about the Asterisk moment is that until you get above tree line, it doesn't feel like Pikes. Mm-hmm. Not saying that the road isn't challenging there.
A lot of people obviously get caught up in the lower section. Yep. But there's something about that above tree line, like, that is the iconic moment, right? That transition out of Glen Cove when you come up, and then there's no more trees. Mm-hmm. It's phew. It- And just how fast you go through the, like, how fast you rise up in elevation through the Ws, and just then, yeah, it's wild.
It's epic. Epic. Such a, such a uniquely cool place, right? And, uh, yeah, it's just, uh, it, like, it, it, as we're talking about it now, I'm like, man, why aren't we going to Pikes this weekend? Yeah. Where at the beginning of this week, I was like, I am so happy I'm not there. I know, but then you start- So I get nothing but, I get an altitude migraine the whole time I'm there.
Oh, man. We could go and just be spectators. Yeah, but- I don't know if that'd be as much fun. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not allowed to. No. You, if we're not there at 2:00 in the morning- Right ... to get started, and sleeping in the [01:29:00] car as we wait for the sun to rise, like, you know. I'm with you guys. All or nothing. That, that, that's what makes it.
All or nothing. So, uh, it was a good year. Like, I, I know that it was the, there was an Asterisk year, but it's the most successful year that BBI had as a team. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we, so we, um, I mean, four out of the five cars podiumed. Um, and that, uh, here's the deal. All five cars made it up. Yeah. I, I made a deal with our team that if we, because it's an Asterisk, so I got- I-
I got out of it. Yeah, how'd you get out of this? Asterisk. They- What was the deal again? Oh, the deal was, um, I'd shave my head and my beard if all five cars made it to the top of the mountain. Oh, yeah, but you got off on a- Yeah, uh, because they're like, "All right, get the shaver." And I was like, "Top of the mountain."
Top of the mountain. So- Not half up the mountain. No, but, uh, it, look, I couldn't be more proud of the team. All, uh, and here's, here I'll get a little commercial here. All of our partners, everybody just came together [01:30:00] in such a way that, you know, the drivers, everyone. I mean, Donahue scraping out a second with the car not shifting.
I mean, he basically drove up the mountain in two, maybe three years Yeah, he's an, he's an animal. Emilia did great, Steven did great, Lonnie was just on fire. Jeff w- ha- was actually having a great time in Evo, and- I spoke to Jeff at the end. He got the redemption he was looking for. Yes. Here we go, look at this.
Oh, man.
The road crew asked for that. And that's why he was there. It was important to have a year like this. Um, I'm so grateful for it because the year prior to that just beat, beat, beat us all down. Um, and, you know, to, to try to get out of something like that, hold your head high and show back up, um, with this type of effort is, you know, it was...
It, it, it was great, and I'm so happy that Steve ended up doing this because it was a lot of fun to watch, and just watch him [01:31:00] come together in that car on the mountain, and, uh, the team, um- So, uh, obviously the million-dollar question, are you going back? I actually do not have anyth- I don't know what I would do.
I have nothing planned for, for next year. Um, who knows what happens. I've, I've got something else cooking in the back of my head right now that I'd like to do. I would love to go back. I mean, having... You know, ending last year like it did, you know, to run that car all the way up would've been fantastic.
And I think, um, there's a lot of other priorities that are coming about right now, um, this season, that if it happens, great. It's gotta be the right, the right situation. Obviously I'd only do it with Patim, so we've gotta figure out, you know, when and where, or when and what, really. We know where. Well, you're doing a lot more racing now, too.
Right. So you... What, what have you ran this year? So right... Interestingly enough, right after, um, one of the... We were up there race week up at Pikes, and then, uh, I [01:32:00] was asked to go to a breakfast, and right at, at that breakfast was a gentleman named Steve Dinan. And we sat down. Just a gentleman. Yeah. Steve Dinan, legendary- Yeah
legendary BMW. Right. Yeah. And he wanted to chat and kinda see my thoughts around Pikes, but also wanted to kind of explore what the future would hold- Yeah ... you know, in a potentially GT4 class or beyond. We just got to know each other, and, um, out of that conversation was a c- a test at Road America. Um, they had a driver that wasn't able to make the race, and, "Well, go test.
Let's see what we're, what, you know, how you like this." So it was in a BMW GT4, um, running a Michelin Pilot Challenge in IMSA, and test went great, and next thing you know, we're signed up for the race in August. And I show up there, I'm driving with Cam Shields, and, um, we end up putting the race, ended up second in first ever IMSA Pilot Challenge race.
Oh, yeah. So a two-hour race. And that set off a firestorm after that of, "Well, shoot, what's next for you [01:33:00] next season?" And we had some great discussions, and then that kicked off a full season running Michelin Pilot Challenge with, uh, Peregrine Racing, which is Steve Dinan's race team, and, uh, in partnership with TPC, which is another great...
You know, bring the partner along as well. It helps us out in Pikes Peak, and now they're a partner with us on the, on the endurance side, so running that all season. We kicked off at Daytona, um, in January, and it's been nonstop ever since. From going from Pikes into an endurance race, like, how different is the mindset?
Like, does it feel similar? Does it feel like two completely different worlds? Is the pressure... Like- Yeah ... Pikes, I, I, I, you know, just feels like the, a pressure cooker that's different than a lot of other racing. I- Do you feel that way, or? It is different. Pikes is so different in a sense where race day comes around and you have one shot to get to the top of that mountain, or halfway in our case.
And, um, where in endurance racing, over two hours or four hours, or we move on to GTD and beyond, [01:34:00] um, you've got bigger endurance, you know, more hours to be able to formulate different strategies to work your way back up the ladder depending upon where things are at. Uh, where at Pikes, it's one shot, and that's it.
So it's... There's a ton of pressure on both sides. Um, for Pikes, you gotta show up and make sure that the car's ready to go, and then you gotta set a great time, and then you only get one shot. Endurance racing, you've got a, so much strategy that goes into when you're doing your pit stops, when you're doing driver changes, how much fuel were you...
Are we doing a short stop, we doing left side tires or only right side tires, whatever it may be. Um, and it's been a great learning year for myself in that series. We've got a, got a ton of pace. We're really quick. Unfortunately, we just haven't had the results that we'd like so far this year, but you know, it's one of those things about racing.
Not everything goes your way, but we're having a good time doing it. We're hypercompetitive. We've got great partners along with us, so it's an interesting ride. Does endurance racing just not, like, check your dominatrix kink that [01:35:00] you have with motorsports? Yeah, the whip isn't big enough. No, no, it, um, it, it, it does.
I love it. Um... But it'd have to be, like, Nürburgring, which is, like, real brutal. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I get that. Has to be something like that. Yeah, I get that. I get that. I mean, I... Look, I think that, you know, obviously this'll be a week that we're not there at Pikes, and, and I miss it. Um, but it is, it is one of the most brutal events.
Like, it's brutal for everybody. It is. Mm-hmm. It's brutal for the media teams. It's brutal for the crew. It's brutal for the, the, the track workers. I mean, everyone who's involved. Safety, everything. Safety. S- oh, yeah, God bless the safety people. Yeah, right. I mean, it's like- Yeah ... it's like these... And i- it's even kind of brutal for spectators.
Yeah. Right? I mean, you get up high and then get stuck there the whole day. P- you, you know they went up there, and they were there the night before when the winds were happening. Right. Nobody... I wanted to know what happened with them, because they lost porta potties. Like, where... I mean, you're in tents. I saw photos.
I don't know if I can find one, but I saw photos of porta potties that had blown across the [01:36:00] road, and they were just blue
s- ... shit stains everywhere. So. Oh, man. Yeah. Um... Ugh. Yeah, no, you know, I, I do miss it, and the... It's even harder when I've gotten a lot of opportunities to go. We have s- we have some crew guys up there. Um, we have some of our equipment, our trailer. And you, you guys are servicing Lucy again for this year, right?
Yeah, yeah, Lucy came back down. Um, we went through her, uh, with Billy Johnson and the Allegra team. Great team, great group. Uh, Billy's... You're gonna see some pace out of that car. They've, they've done a good job in developing that thing further. Um, I'll be watching very closely. I was gonna ask, like, coming up- Yeah
this weekend, do you watch or do you not watch when you're there? I have to. I have to. Um- We'll have a watch party. Yeah. Yeah. We'll have a watch party, yeah. We'll be over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But, um, it's... It, it is kinda- I mean, I got the Racer+ subscription, so we're, we're good to go. Perfect. So. Yeah.
Yeah, no, it is a bummer not being there. Um, but it is nice to actually spend Father's Day home. You know, it's nice to spend my birthday here, which, which we just did, and I haven't... [01:37:00] That's, that's been a long time since that's happened. Felt weird, I'm like, "What do I do?" Happy birthday, by the way. Yeah, thanks.
Um, but yeah, I'm- I, I'm always exploring things. I'm always considering things, but, you know, like- Yeah, I mean, I, I'll be honest, I lost the bet 'cause, like, we all talked last year and I was like, "There's no way we're not going back to Pikes." A lot of people lost the bet. And then January came, and I'm like, "It's coming."
And then February came, and March, April, May, and there were no Pikes plans. And yeah, I think you won. If you... Depending on whether or not you bet yourself, I'm not sure. Not sure where you're at on the market right now. I made, I made... I, I, I made a lot of money off you guys. That's why, 'cause you're actually raising money for next year- Yeah, there you go
off of, uh, off of taking one for this year. Right. Right. I get it. I threw the fight. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, um, I mean, I, I, I feel like you're gonna go back at some point probably. As long as he's going back. Yeah. I mean- It's a package deal at this point, so. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think you can stay away. No. It, it's too cool of an event, [01:38:00] I'll tell you that right now.
Yeah. Um, it's like, I'm not gonna equate it to, like, an ex-girlfriend, but, and then you're like, you get there, you're like, "Oh, this is why we broke up." Mm-hmm. But, like, you're imagining being back there the whole time or whatever it may have been, you know? Yeah. And, like, and then you get there, you're like, "Oh, I forgot how hard this is."
And you do. It's, like, it's weird. It's just a weird thing that because now alls I picture is- Beautiful mountain, a backdrop, great people, working with Colorado Springs. Like, having a home base for a month straight trying to figure out, "Well, where we gonna go eat? Uh, look up something different." You know, it's like the, the- Yeah, yeah
all those weird little things. Let's go to Dutch Brothers. Let's get some coffee. You know, it's like just a w- I, I miss that. I do. It's, it... And the camaraderie and the... We, we laugh so hard when we're there, even though how hard it is, but we, we have such a good time. It's like trauma bonding while you have to work, you know?
It's, it's, it's interesting. I think one thing that's extremely unique about Pikes, um, because it is so brutal, is that it actually makes your competitor your, like, your peer and your friend. Oh, yeah. It's like we just survived- Yeah ... a huge earthquake, and we're all in this together. Um, they, you know, no matter...
[01:39:00] Like- Yeah ... we settle, uh, settle all the differences- Yeah ... but we're all homies, and we're like, "Yeah, it's like..." Like, like another team breaks something, and if you have it, you'll supply. Oh, 1,000%. It's like that doesn't exist in a lot of other sides of racing. Barely, yeah. You're stoked that they broke- Yeah
because now they're not gonna beat you. Where I think everyone understands at Pikes how, like you said, you get one chance. Yeah. Like, like you worked so hard this year to come here. And, um, for me, one of the things that's the most infectious part of Pikes is, like, that group that's there. I mean, you talked about it.
There's, like, the rabid fans. There's the people who are always there, dude with the cowbell. Um, and there's also just those teams that keep coming back, and it's also such a w- a wide and diverse group of people and cars. So you've got top-level factory teams that are showing up trying to set records, like a Ford in a crazy spaceship.
Um, and then you have guys like yourselves who are privateers but running on the top level of the performance. And then you got other guys who are running up in, like, 1990s [01:40:00] Audis. Nothing- Station wagons. Nothing is cooler than that. I wanna get back to the point where, like, you watch, like, IMSA racing back in, like, the '70s, and you got the dude smoking a cigarette, no shirt on, wearing his Levi's 501s on pit wall with, like, a, with a, a Craftsman box- Yeah, yeah, yeah
working on a 962. You're like, "Wait, what?" I think we gotta go do hill climbs in Mexico to bring that back. I think, I think you're right. But yeah, I, I don't want a shirt on. I wanna smoke a cigarette working on the car. It sounds... That's why I like events like that because y- you, you, you just touched on it.
Uh, privateers at any level can go rub elbows with the big dogs, with the, uh, with the factory. Yeah. And that's kind of a cool thing to be a part of. You got a factory Ford, you know, electric crazy- Yeah ... thing going off next to a guy that him and his son and probably his grandfather all built a car together.
Right. I mean, what makes it great is Pikes Peak is the most professional grassroots event in the world. Yeah. 'Cause it is, like it has a grassroots vibe. Mm-hmm. Everyone gets the ex- It's grassroots, yep ... everybody gets the exact same parking spot. Yeah. Mm. I remember, like, Bentley showing up, and it's like, "Guess what?
You get the same footprint." The same 10 by 20. You get the same 10 by [01:41:00] 20- Or whatever, yeah ... as, like, the guy next to you in, like, whatever, a Toyota Starlet. Yeah. Like, you, that's what you get. Yeah. You know? And there's something great about that democratization of racing at Pikes. Mm-hmm. Like, no one gets special treatment.
I mean, there is special treatment on some levels, but in that side, like, there's really very little special treatment. You get what you get, you go, and they, everyone's working elbow to elbow, and I, that's kind of one of the things that make it great. And it, and it is cool because the, the family who, who's multi-generational there doing whatever, they can go hang out in the Ford pit and check this spaceship out.
Mm-hmm. And they're w- they'll welcome you, and they're, "Oh, yeah, yeah." You know, like, it's- Yeah ... yeah. It's, it's cool because, like me going there, I'm still an enthusiast. I still geek out on all of it. I still go hang out and look at some of the, you know, like the, that Audi, right? And then, do you... The, with the, with the five cylinder and the m- Oh, yeah, the guys who came over
the mid-engine five, yeah ... yeah, yeah, they came over with- Yeah ... that thing was super rad. So rad. They basically built a mid-engine sort of Audi based on, um, like two photos- Yeah ... or three photos of- Yeah ... [01:42:00] what was supposed to be the Group S car. Right, that prototype Group S- Yeah ... the future Group S car. Yeah. But yeah, so, like, I still geek out.
I still go spend time with, with everybody out there because I, I truly enjoy it, and I think I'm a real enthusiast when it comes to that, not jaded, you know, b- by the, by seeing it every day. So it's, that, that place, like, like, it exposes all that which is great. Yeah. That's really good. Well, I guess I'll see you there next year.
Oh, yeah, we'll see. I don't know, Steve.
The mailbox is full, full, full, full. The mailbox is full. The mailbox is full and cannot accept any messages at this time. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you very much for being part of this very vehicular experiment. Still figuring out what Showcase is all about, but I enjoyed it. Hopefully you did, too.
Let us know, and we'll keep making them. And, uh, despite what we all say, we'll probably see you at Pikes Peak next [01:43:00] year.