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Welcome to Let’s Build with Armada, the podcast where Washington homeowners learn how to remodel with clarity, strategy, and confidence—on a schedule that follows real projects, not a rigid calendar.
I’m Charlie Carter from Armada Design & Build. After years of working across the greater Seattle area, I’ve learned that successful remodeling isn’t about luck. It’s about planning, transparent conversations, and understanding how every decision—from windows to insurance to material selections—affects long-term value.
In each episode, I sit down with experts to answer the questions homeowners genuinely care about:
- Why your PNW windows cry every winter
- Financing options that actually make sense in 2026
- How to not get burned by a cheap insurance quote
- What adds value in Seattle… and what just burns cash
- How to plan a DADU without turning your backyard into a 2-year construction zone
Whether you’re preparing for a kitchen or bathroom remodel, planning a full-home upgrade, or exploring a backyard DADU for equity or rental income, this podcast gives you the clarity you need to move forward confidently.
Listen here, watch more real projects on our YouTube channel, and visit us when you’re ready to build with confidence.
And don’t forget to follow the show—so you never miss an episode that could save you time, money, and stress.
Visit the Armada Design Center in Bellevue when you’re ready to start planning your own home transformation!
📍 15600 NE 8th St. Suite O2, Bellevue, WA 98008
📞 425-587-8286
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The bathroom has to give you a soothing feeling. Should I do that? How much does it cost? How much space does it take up? And what happens if I don't put it in? It's a timeless thing. It's going to exist forever, right? So, now you're saying we're going back to a more handmade look. You have to have a big tub in the master bathroom. I don't think so. Bigger tile is not cheaper to put in. People don't realize how much stuff they have in the bathroom. What's the new Oh, I really want this. I think I know the answer, but I want to hear you say it.
Hello, welcome back. Excited to have you here with us today. We've got a twotime guest with us, ya. But first, I want to thank you for joining us. Uh, like, subscribe, share, rate, and review. All the things, the podcast, YouTube, all the places that you get your content, we're on there. Check us out. our website. Um, come into the showroom here in Belleview, check out the bathrooms, the kitchens, all of those kind of things. Have us out to your home, talk about what we can do for you and what you need to accomplish. And to that end, today we have Yahanumo with us, our design department manager and lead designer. And we have had her on before. U, we talked about kitchens and interior styling and things like that. But today we are going to try and I and I have known along each other a very long time and we get into these talks and go off and on. But today we're going to try and keep it to bathrooms. Things that are happening in bathrooms, things that we're not doing in bathrooms any longer, the future of bathrooms, both from a function standpoint and a styling standpoint. So I want to get her input. And so if you're thinking about doing your bathroom, renovating that. If you're thinking about the kitchen, check out the prior one. Thinking about a bathroom, stay tuned. This is going to be good. You're going to learn a lot. And very, very happy to have ya take time away from her very busy schedule. I'm sure she's going to wind up working this weekend because she's here with us today doing this. So, I appreciate you coming in. It's great to have you back. So, thank you very much. So, bathrooms. Yes. Focusing on bathrooms for today. What would you say is the biggest change? You know, not over the last 20 years, we've both been doing this 20 plus years at this point, but recently, what would you say are you seeing as some of the the things that aren't are going away and the things that are coming in that are sort of replacing that? The trends in bathrooms recently, where's the shift over the last couple of years been? The biggest uh differences I've been seeing last maybe like a 10 or five years is uh nobody wants to do a big huge tub deck. Okay, I agree. Uh because it occupies almost like a 25% of the spaces of the bathroom. So nobody wants to waste of the spaces and the people who actually take the bath is kind of reducing a little bit. I think people more tend to see it um to have a busy life. So they want to do a shower instead of the bathing. So bathing is a great experience but the the reality is like people just don't have enough time to sit down in the bath and you know focus on yourself and you know read a book or something. So and we should all probably do a little more of that. I do I do agree but the reality is you know like everything is back to back in the life. So people just don't want to waste the spaces on the bathroom. So instead of doing the huge tub deck, um people wants to expand the shower spaces more. Agree. And um maybe instead of like a tub deck, people switch to the freestanding tub. Okay. Which is which doesn't require that much space. Doesn't take up as much footprint. Exactly. So that's the the big shift that I've been seeing last five or 10 years. big deck tub kind of gone. Right now, let's talk a little bit more about that thing on the tub. Just dig on that a little bit more. Where is your philosophy? What is your position? Because there are no rules, right? There's no obligation. Like, should every house have a bathtub? Should every master have a bathtub? Like, where do you Because like we we talk about it differently with different people and different clients, right? Right. Exactly. So, what's what's your personal philosophy there? I again I love personally I love taking a bath. You know I probably take a bath at least once a week. Okay. For sure. Um I think that would put you in a small percentage of people small group. I think so. I don't think I'm majority. You know I'm probably minor in that population. But um it really depends upon what you want. You know, if you want to prioritize bathing rather than shower, then I will advocate to have a bathtub for sure. And then uh the old philosophy is like when you sell the house, you have to have at least a one one tub in the house for the young family who has small childrens, right? But I think it's a disappearing. The the philosophy is kind of disappearing and then people have more attractive um to the bigger shower rather than a tub. Definitely. Yes. Boutiquey kind of. Exactly. Exactly. So now what would you say to a client if they said to you, I almost never bathe. Okay. No one in my house ever bathe. I said don't don't invest any money. Don't do it on something you never enjoy, you know, because I rather want to spend that money to make it the shower spaces bigger or you get the body jet or some kind of a gadget. Uh, so steam shower. Exactly. Or sauna, dry sauna, something like that. So I would say it's really depends on the personal choices. You know, there's no philosophy anymore. There's no like uh uh like a rearested market. You have to have a big tub in the master bathroom. I don't think so. I don't believe so. I don't I don't either. I remember I'm old enough to remember when that jetted tub idea came into play right in the 80s really, right? And that was driven by Jacuzzi, a brand name. They they developed that and it really caught on and took fire and and that if you didn't have one of those big tubs I mean it I'm being a little bit you know facitious here but it was like oh there's like you can't even sell your house if you don't have a big tub right and so we we're similar age I'm older for sure [laughter] um but similar age and that we grew up in those houses with those tubs because everybody said you had to have one and nobody used them right and now that we're adults and past that like I don't need the tub. I don't use the tub. Right. And so I'm I'm with you. I'm kind of back and forth. It's like if you're going to use it, then absolutely put it in. Exactly. 100%. If you're going to use it, put it in. Yes. Right. Now the the I think the freestanding tub is a great solution. It is much smaller footprint and you know that kind of thing. And then the the whole wet room which we'll get to and that's really you know part of that idea. Um, but if you're thinking about the the tub as a necessity for resale, right, that's a different thing. If you're going to use it, put it in. But if you're not going to use it or you really don't see anyone in your house really using a tub, then it's a different decision for you. Should I put one in because I'm not putting it in for me. I'm putting it in for the next guy. Right. Right. And so, right. Should I do that? How much does it cost? How much space does it take up? And what happens if I don't put it in? Right. and I go to sell the house, are people really literally not going to buy the house because there's no tub? I mean, how how r sure there might be some maybe, but I think very rare they would say, "Oh, I can't buy that house because there's no bathtub, you know." Okay, well, I missed on that one. So, just think about that and and be sure about it. But if you're using it, yes, put it in. If you're not now, then that's where the real decision point comes in is like, do I need to do it not because I'm doing it for me, but I'm doing it for the potential next guy, right? And again, you don't need to think that way, right? Cuz the potential like a next homeowner, maybe he doesn't enjoy the bath at all. No. You know, or your betting odds would be that they don't. Exactly. Because most people don't. So like if you're going to bet the odds, then you'd be okay not putting one, right? And also like a trend that will be changed. So I cannot predict like in 20 years maybe nobody's take a bath anymore. I don't know. I can't just predict the future trend. So I would advocate people to focus on what they want instead of like uh um you know think about like a real estate market trend or something like that. You know I I totally agree. What do you need? And particularly if you're planning on being in the house a long time. Exactly. Right. If you're going to be there 6 8 9 10 15 years then and you don't use a tub then what's the point of putting it in? Right. Right. the money that you spend on it, the space that it takes up, all those kind, you could have a bigger closet, bigger bedroom, bigger shower, right? You know, whatever. Um, instead of that tub sitting there that just doesn't get used, right? So, anyways, the ongoing saga and debate of tub, no tub, how many tubs, should I have a tub, can I get away with not having a tub? I we've been debating this for 25 years, and I think we'll probably continue to debate it, but as you say, maybe it changes in the in the next 10 or 15 years. Um, what would you say in your opinion is one of the things clients are asking for the most now in a bathroom? And maybe it this plays right into the tub thing. What's the new Oh, I really want this. I think I know the answer, but I want to hear you say it. The private water closet. Okay. Uh, that's probably the number one request. And uh which means the toilet in a separate little space behind the door, not out in the main area of give you some privacy, right? And number two is probably the bigger shower spaces. They want to expand the shower spaces as much as possible, right? That's a number uh two. And then number three is a very popular one. Double sink. Okay, that's a number one. And number three, demanding. Right. Okay. That's how I feel. What about the wet room tub thing? Is that kind of part of the bigger shower? Yes. Uh, so it's a trend thing and people kind of realize how convenient if you just enclose the wet area as a one area, right? The shower and the tub area, but it does require the spaces, you know. I can't really do that in a five pieces bathroom, right? you know, so um yes, I see some demanding, but I just cannot make that happen for a majority of the bathroom. There's just not enough room. Correct. They weren't if particularly if we're remodeling or renovating because those bathrooms just weren't given enough area to accommodate that kind of thing. Yes. Right. So, what we're talking about is this relatively new trend, not brand new, but relatively new trend of what we're calling like the wet room where historically it's been the shower is the shower and the tub is over here, you know, nearby or across the room and it's its own space, not it's just in the bathroom. It's not inside of some subspace of the bathroom. And now that trend, what we're talking about is that the tub most of the time a freestanding tub, right? But it's a freestanding tub and and then a shower are essentially one space. It's it's a big room typically glass or wall and glass separating that essentially the the shower the tub is in the shower effectively. Now the shower area is over here on this part and the tub is over there in that part, but they're all kind of behind the glass and it's one space and that's sort of where that's going with that wet room effect. Right. right now. She talked about the the private water closet where the toilet is in a its own space. And one thing that I really like and I know you advocate for this as well is that here in our part of the world and I'm sure in most of the United States where where we're talking to people is that there's a there's this long skinny bathroom particularly kind of call a kids bathroom or a guest bathroom that's got a anywhere from a three or four foot sink to a six or seven foot sink. And then there's the toilet. And then there's the tub shower combination down at the end. And these are five 5 1/2 ft by 9 10 11 12T long bathrooms, right? And everything's all in one space. And the thing that we do on occasion when it's appropriate is you put a wall between the sink and the toilet. So then the toilet and the tub, though it's not really a true wet room kind of thing, but that's separating that space. So someone can be on the potty or in the toilet or in the tub or in the shower and the sink area is not closed for business, right? Because there's a door there. Yes. And most commonly that's done with a pocket door. It can be a swing door. Um, you know, we've done it with a curtain for people for a styling thing, but really separating toilet and tub shower for a bathroom that's not typically the primary bathroom that the, you know, the owners of the house, husband and wife aren't using that. That's kind of kids and guest. And that's a way to get more usability out of that room. Particularly, I find when you have uh, you know, a 12-year-old boy and a 14year-old girl. Yeah. Right. Perfect scenario. They're like, they're not going to if if if he or she's in the shower then and there's no wall, then the then the sink area is closed for business essentially. So that allows the sink to still be used while someone's in the other space. Yes. So, that's kind of that idea of that is separating that and that's been around a long time. I think it really works, but that's separating that space. Um, and then the the wet room, right? Yep. We talked about that. So, now what trend are you most excited about? Stuff you're seeing coming now that people are doing a a new product or an enlightening like, oh, people like, oh, this is cool. This is important. like what would you say is something new that either you're seeing and people are asking for or that you're trying to introduce people to that they may not be aware of uh especially around the northwest you know the radiant heat under the tile that will be the number one thing I will push to you know because I know it cost you a little bit more just to than the regular tile surface but the return is a huge I believe you know uh it does say that you cannot consider this as a heater but it does warm up the spaces and especially like a cold morning in the winter time right you know when you wake up and then you if you go to the bathroom you know the first touch of the feet it's nice and warm you know it's a nice beginning of the day so I will recommend to have it as a number one thing if you if you never considered before or if you never knew that before I would you know suggest to have it right. Yeah. So heated floor they put in electric heat typically it's electric and in bigger spaces you can do it what we call hydronic which is water pipes but for a bathroom it's typically just electric. It's very nice. I totally agree with you. Um you set the the temp and you kind of set it and forget it, right? And then it doesn't keep it at XY temperature all day if you cuz it can go up and down and adjust for when you're in the bathroom. You know, you're going out to work all day. Let it come down, but you don't turn it off because then it cools down too much. So, and then it takes more long time to heat it back up, right? Yeah. So, it's a it's where you control it up and down. Um, and it needs to be 90° or 95 degrees because our body temp is, you know, 98. Like so if it's even if it's 80 it feels a little cooler to us and we feel it because it's cooler than we are. Um but that's a good one. Definitely a good one. Coming back to something you said earlier. Okay. I think is a almost as old an argument as the tub no tub. Okay. Is and you mentioned two sinks, right? Dual sinks and whether it's in [clears throat] a primary bathroom or whether it's in the kids bathroom or whatever. Now, I'll just say this that if if there's plenty of space, meaning we have a long enough space to put in a big vanity and put in two sinks, all for it, right? But where it gets a little dicey for me, and I think even for homeowners that, you know, don't think about it every day, but when you present them with the data is when it gets a little bit tighter, right? When the when the when we don't have eight or nine feet of cabinet we can put in there. when it gets to six or seven or even five feet, right? Where are you? My boundary is my boundary is a six feet, 72 in. That's the length that the you have a double sink comfortably with the arm stretch, you know. uh anything less than that you have to be careful about that you know like people wants to get the look of it you know but that when comes the functionality it's going to lose a lot you know because you're going to lose a surface of the countertop you can't even put the hair brushes on the top of the surface right so I would ask them hey is it really want to have a double sink what's the reason behind you know otherwise I will keep the one big sink and then keep the u good working surface. Totally agree. Yeah. So, here's how I like to talk with people about that is if I'm in the five six foot range, right? That's kind of on the edge, right? That's on the edge. So, if you're talking about we only have five or six feet of vanity space where we can put the sink. And I then people like, "Oh, we want two sinks." And I'm like, "Uh, this is pretty short." Like right. So then I I present it this way is how many times a week are you in the bathroom using the sink at exactly the same time. Right. Right. And if that's five, six times a week, you know, then maybe the two sinks, but I want to be clear. I make them stand up next to each other and like demonstrate here's the thing and how's that going to feel? Are you even really going to do that? And have the same philosophy that is you're in that five, six foot range. I can force in two sinks. Yeah, they'll fit. Yeah, right. But think about it this way. If I have a 60inch five foot cabinet, right, and a standard sinks about 14 to 16 in in diameter, just make it 15 for ease of math, right? So, I got two 15in sinks. Those are 30 in already. Right. Already. And I've got a total of 60 in of countertop. So, then I'm going to spread those. And now I've got 30 in left over. And I've got to divide that 30 by three. Correct. because I've got countertop to the left. I've got the sink. I've got countertop in the middle. I've got the sink and I got countertop again over here. Yes. Right. So that's on average 10 in of countertop space. Exactly what you talked about is there's no surface area, right, to put stuff on. And the thing that a lot of people forget is that there's very little really wellusable storage in the cabinets below the countertop because you got two sinks, you got the plumbing and all the stuff. Yes. And maybe one little drawer cabinet in between. Very skinny guy. Yeah. Right. So I would always encourage the people that are in that five, six foot range to really think about that. Do one sink, maybe it's a little bigger. Get more countertop. did a couple of drawer banks on both sides. And I think that at the end of the day that that's a a much better and it doesn't look so cramped. I know it doesn't look so crammed, right? You know, because if you if you wind up with a 9 ft vanity or seven or eight or nine 10ft vanity, you're pretty much still putting in the same size sink. I mean, maybe it gets a little bigger, but not substantially bigger. And so then you got this bigger space and the scale feels better to me. I agree. Right. And and cram in two sinks that are the same size, tiny little thing. It's just it's just too much personally. Too much. Yeah. Right. So, something to think about the two sink question, right? Like always a battle. Is it really needed, right? Is it really? And they cost money, too. It does, right? You're not, you know, these aren't free decisions. You know, the sink, the faucet, the plumbing, cut a hole in the countertop, you know, the whole thing. There's money there, right? So, thank you for weighing in on that one. And it's it's just one of those kind of funny things. The tubs and the two sinks. I would say it's a it's a known ending topic probably. Oh, it's we talk about all the time. And everybody's got to go through their own journey of thinking about it and relating back their own experiences of when I grew up and when I lived in that house and we had this in that house and how did that really work and now we have this opportunity to make a space that we're going to use for us, right? and how can we best do and maybe it's like you know what let's do the five foot vanity with one sink and drawers on both sides because we want the bigger shower right right something like that now we have the room to do the bigger shower which we really want and also like people don't realize how much stuff they have in a bathroom you know because people kind of keep forgetting about the stuff they have like these days the like um men the the male people have more stuff in the bathroom compared to 20 years ago. Oh yeah. People using starting using a toner and sunscreen and shaving cream of course you know many other stuff than uh the people in the 20 years ago. So yeah it was shaving cream and soap. I use the same soap for head, face, body, the whole anymore. Not anymore. No, my daughters are like this is this is the this is for your face dad and this you use that on your face what are you talking [laughter] about like they were just losing it you know so yeah the storage is a kind of key component in the bathroom these days you know so what would you say along that line is that is the most common overlooked thing is it the storage stuff would you or is there something else that people miss or don't think about uh again like I like the like a super clean look when you come to the bathroom. You know, I don't want to see something, you know, sitting on a countertop that much. You and I are the same, right? The bathroom has to give you soothing feeling once you come into the room. So, I rather want to put those things in somewhere in the storage, hide it. Right. So, that's the my kind of philosophy of how the bathroom should look like. That's cluttered. Yes. Yeah. I mean, you can have 37 bottles of stuff, but it's somewhere in the inside of the cabinet, not on the countertop, right? And I'd rather want to have some flower plants on a countertop instead of like a couple bottles of toners of sunscreen, you know? Right. I mean, we we've been in thousands of homes. Yes. Thousands of homes that aren't ours. And we've done work for those some of those people, not for some, you know, but we've seen them. We've gone there and and I know what you're talking about where you see that bathroom where and this typically now going back a few years. So, not to be stereotypical here, but like the lady with all the stuff all over the countertop, all the the the creams and the things and this stuff, right? And it's just so chaotic and cluttery that the bathroom should be that place that you wind down at night. Yes. Right. before you go to bed that like is easy. Cleanse something, right? Cleanse your cleanse your your soul a little bit, you know, get mess, you know, everything. And if you have all that chaos out, right, it and all these bright colors, all this stuff that that's just not a settling space to be in. Exactly. Right. So, you end your day in that chaos and you start your day in that chaos, right? And so, has to be nice and clean. I'm totally with you. You can use all that stuff, but let's put it somewhere which is not on the counter. No, you know, put it in there. So, so places to store that stuff. That's one of the things of why we want to go to the house, right? And I don't want people to clean up before we get there because I want to see how they really live. Right. Exactly. Right. You know, like, no, don't fake it. Don't fake it. You know, like we don't judge that way, you know. I don't care. I just want to know like how many toner that person needs, you know, how many different kinds of sunscreen they need, you know. I mean, because you may need a drawer bank, right? You know, this wide right next to that space so they can put all that stuff in the drawers and then a tall cabinet right here as well. Yes. Exactly. So, like we want to see you in your natural environment. Yes. Exactly. Don't stage it for us. Yes. You know, like just let us see it. Yeah. That's a good uh like sort of like a data we need, you know, in order to come up with a better space for them to live. I totally agree. And so like that that storage and one of the things I think people forget or overlook that I really want to always kind of consider is where are you putting the towels? Where are you putting the extra toilet paper? Where are you putting, you know, the backup toothpaste? You know, the one that you're using, okay, it's here, it's in the drawer, whatever. But, you know, most people, you know, buy five tubes at Costco in a pack, right? And they're using one at a time. Where do the others go? Where does the toilet paper, you know, those kind of things? Where are we considering that stuff? Where are your medicines, you know, all that? What are we doing with that? Let's account for that, right? You know, now maybe you've got a big linen closet out in the hall or something and all your towels and sheets and stuff are there. That's cool. Great. But where is that stuff and and is it well managed for you? Can we change that? You know, so just think about that use and functionality in the space. Correct. Right. And then make it calming. I know. That's the goal. It's like you want to you want it to be relaxing. Did you injure it? I do. I do want the people, you know, that spa almost feeling spa at home, relaxation therapy. You know, correct lighting, you know, all of that type of stuff, which I want to get into. Um, so then we talked about the tub. I think if you're doing one, more times than not, it's freestanding. Right now, in kids bathrooms, we still do a lot of combos. A tub shower combination, you know, that kid bathroom, full bathroom. They're the only one who probably needs the tub most most up to a certain point up to, I don't know, three or four years old, maybe something like that. But yeah, now one thing that I always do, Ya knows this. I think she's on the same page is that if we're doing that tub shower combo that the tub that you pick is important that it's if it's going to be used as a shower that it's kind of more of a flat bottom. We like them a little deeper. You know, it's a higher step in but you if you're using it as a tub you can actually, you know, there's not this much water in it. Right. Right. You know, you can get a little bit of water in it. You know, so if you're looking at one of those, mindful of how much water can you actually get in the tub. Some of them are literally at the deep end is like 78. Funny thing is like a where the drain is located. Yeah. So if it's a down below, even though the tub depth is this high, but the overflow is right here in the middle, then you can't really all the water you're putting in there. I know. I know. So, so be mindful of that is how much water can you get in it. So, we like a little deeper tub. If it's going to be used as a shower, a little bit more flat bottom and not the slopey radius edges, which can be slippery and, you know, danger, slip and fall type of thing. Um, what is your new material new material that you're using like that you like or that you're trying to introduce people to that you're excited about that they you know a regular homeowner walking in might not be aware of and I know our clients are a lot of them are really educated they've done a lot of homework and they come in and go I want this and you're like what is that you know like we learn from them a lot the material okay so material is well the the number one goal for me in The bathroom is a safety still. You know, beside of relaxation or a calming place, yada yada yada. But the more technical aspect um the number one goal for me in the bathroom is the safety because that's where you spend the time uh as a naked most of the time, right? So I want to be safe. So uh in terms of that the material that we're speaking out uh I cannot risk it that much you know I want to stay still like it should be uh uh not the waterproof but it's okay to be a water and even though it's a wet you won't slip on the surface right that's the number one thing we always pay attention to and then the material we still use just a regular porcelain or ceramic for the shower wall and uh some acrylic tub yada yada yada but I I just cannot uh introduce something super funky. Uh that's kind of granted you know but the material wise uh even though like a one porcelain tile I will say that size of the tile is getting bigger and bigger these days. Um, so I think we're trying to aim the look of the slab stone, right? That's the goal, you know, and also like a less grout line is helping the homeowner to maintain the bathroom super clean, right? Agree. Totally on that. Yeah. It's easy to maintain, easy to clean up. So, uh, I see more a trend that we spec out more like a larger format tile more and more. And even to that end, we're also doing um in in more expensive homes or more expensive projects, we're putting in full slabs on the wall. Yes. So, we're doing slabs. Most of those are porcelain. Porcelain. Yes. Yeah. Because the the quartz and natural stones, those kind of things don't really do well in that without maintenance. They can they will survive, but natural stone has like its issues when it's in a shower. Is it effllorescent? is it, you know, it just it's it's you're going to have to maintain it. But the porcelain pretty low maintenance. So, we're seeing a lot of slab in porcelain done in shower walls. Primary showers, you don't see a ton in guest yet because it's still more a larger investment. But I do agree that the tile is getting bigger, getting bigger, you know. I mean, if you think about it, when they first started doing tile in the in the showers, there's a 4x4. I know, right? So 4x4 tile and it got a little bigger and got a little bigger and it's been kind of the then it got to 12 x 12 and then it got to 12 x 24 and now we're doing tile that's 2 ft by 4t something like that or even bigger 30 in or you know 5 foot long tile pieces that are near slab size. Right. Right. And so you may ask or may be wondering why is that? Right. And I think I don't have empirical scientific data to back this up, but just kind of being around it for the past 30 or 40 years is that that the way that tile is made is that it all is, you know, kind of a ceramic earthen type product and it's had to be cooked, right? They got to put it in the kil and when you put big stuff in the kil, it warps and changes shape more than the little stuff. So in the early days, they were able to replicate the small piece. They could cook it, glaze it, do the whole thing, fire it, and they didn't they didn't warp, they didn't blow up. They that enough got through that they didn't have to throw them away. And as the technology has evolved that they can more and more affordably and with greater, you know, accuracy and redundancy make these bigger pieces without having to throw half of them away. You know, we fire a hundred pieces, but only 50 are usable, right? until they got to throw them because they twisted and they cracked and they did all this stuff. And I think that's why easier and I know for a fact that that's true in talking with some of the the the manufacturers on the porcelain slabs is that it was the technique of being able to cook that slab to do the thing and not get it to to freak out when they baked it and it twisted and dried and all. That's probably true. So I would and that's why the price of that's come down because it's much more available with you know lower failure rate. Now one thing I want to dispel right now and I I didn't bring it up but it's true and I want to dis bigger tile is not cheaper to put in. No the labor is a little it's actually more because it's a frenzy. It takes so long to get the wall perfect right that you wind up with a straight thing. So you think oh I just slap this giant piece of tile on. I don't have to put on 30 pieces of tile. No, actually putting on the 30 pieces of tile will go faster than putting on the one big one. And also like I think at least like a two people has to hold up sometimes if they get if they get that big until it dries out, right? Until it sets up. Yeah. You have to put bracing on it, you know, all kinds of things. So big tile doesn't equal labor savings. It actually means a little bit bump on the labor. Not significant, but more. It is definitely not less. So, get that out of your head right away.
How do you manage this? Right? Because I don't have to do this part too much, but people come in and they've got their Pinterest board or they've got their stuff. Like, how do you help them? I'm sure you've seen some where you're just like, "Oh my gosh, there are four styles in here, you know, like she's got farmhouse and she's got modern and she's got craftsman." like how do you how do you filter through that and help people land on their thing? I I think it's just it's just my job to kind of sorted them, digest them, and then come up with the the solution, right? So, I don't mind if they put the totally different vibes of the one is a farmhouse vibe and then the other one is like a super sleek modern. You know if I ask them the reason why you put these picture there's a two different reason behind it you know so like a one modern one oh I just like the layout of the vanity you know so it doesn't mean that they picked a super randomly you know they always have some kind of idea behind it so the first step is I ask them how hey how come you picked this picture you know what attracts you know and then they said oh I like the color palette or I like the just the vanity, the sink specifically. Uh so then again my job is I have to digest all of it and then come up with a a board for them to understand and then you present your curated or edited version of their Pinterest board what you kind of like you've boiled it down based on the conversation and all the stuff we said here's a pallet mood board kind of thing that I think sort of fits and then you see what they think right and come into the showroom. She's got tons of them out here where she makes them up, we just keep them. Yes. Right. So, you can see other mood boards and palette things that she's done for tons of clients or the other designers have done for clients and see how that feels. And a lot of times they're like, oh, I like all of this, but maybe that. Right. Right. They're like, I don't know about that paint color or that one thing, whatever. Exactly. Exactly. And also like we has to compare one room versus the whole house, right? like a I don't want to plug in like a super boxy sexy bathroom into the craftman house, you know? I have to see the balance to the rest of the house, you know? Exterior has to have a same language as a interior. You don't want to feel like you walk through the door and time warps into a whole different house. Las Vegas, you know, exactly. Yeah, that's that's a fair point. Um I I think that that that's important to help people get through that because they're just sometimes they're all over the place and then that's okay. That's totally fine. Again, that's our job to you know come up with the a solution for them. So when they brainstorm some idea just grab the picture like you know and there must be some reason behind it and then it's again it's our job to ask the questions and then come up with the solution for that. I I used to years and years ago, I don't even think we've ever even talked about this is is that before all of the digital stuff, the Pinterest and the house and all of the internety type thing that when we would be talking to clients that they would go I would send them to go to the bookstore and buy the home renovation magazines, you know, the shelter magazines, buy six, eight, 10 of those. Yeah. Right. And and I used to instruct them that this was kind of the the analog version of the Pinterest board. And I would I would say, I want you to tear out the pages of the of the photos of the magazine and put them in three piles. Right? The pile of I just generally like the feel of this photo. Like this is this is this is this is intriguing to me. I like this. This feels right to me. and then a pile of I specifically like something in this photo. Now, sometimes the group of photo one can be I really like this, but I really like the sink or I like the floor or the fireplace or whatever, right? And so, and make notes. Tell me what's on there. And then the third pile would be I do not like Oh, yeah. I do not like. That's helping. And so, particularly for kitchens and bathrooms and I don't need 12 pictures of a Mediterranean kitchen to know you don't like a Mediterranean kitchen, right? It's like just I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like that. And that and that would always be the spot I would start [laughter] is that one, you know, because I I thought of it this way. We're all very visual. And so like if I'm in the the middle of a of a circle of design options in the world and at the beginning I have 360 ways I can go. Yeah. Right. 360 degrees. And if I look at the pile of things you don't like, in two minutes I'm going to shut down about 80% of those options. That's right. And I already know that I'm kind of headed this direction, right? Right. And I don't have to worry about the rest of this stuff. Now, when it gets weird, it was like, well, I'm mostly headed this way, but there's this one way over here, like, you know, this like, do we need to talk about that one kind of thing that's over here. So, that was the way I would think about it and go to that do not like efficient, right? And and maybe that helps for you, too, is like do that or you can even do it now digitally, you know? It was because I would like bring me the photos in here and put them in folders. No, you know, and then we would just literally go through them and go, "Okay, okay, okay, got it." [music]
What would a dream project look like for ya? Bathroom project. Like, what would you I know it's going to be calming. It's going to be clutter-free. Yeah. What else is it going to have? [sighs and gasps] I personally attracted to more like a sauna system these days. Okay. You know, it could be a dry or it could be a wet, you know. So, uh I want to treat like a someone's bathroom as more like a true spa, you know. So, there's a bathing experience, there is a steam experience, there's a dry sauna experience, and then there's another body jet experience. you know any kinds of like a gadget that I can think of for the bathroom. So that could be my dream. And the mood lighting the lighting is come so far. It is so important. So um I read the article or listened the radio I can't remember but um recently the scientists found there is a a retinal cell behind your eye right that's founded on your body too all over the skin you have that cell so that means like you receive some lighting information through the skin and that let cell is going to send a electrical signal to your brain. So you know the lighting therapy is actually true. I mean like you receive the light not only for the eye but also like a whole body can you know that makes sense. That makes sense. That makes sense. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, if you think about our evolution as an animal that like when it was dark, right, it was danger, right? You know, like before, you know, back it's like all dark like we're on higher alert, you know, like you know, bad things happen at night, right? You know, when you're wandering around and there's lions and stuff. So, I think the lighting in the bathroom is more important than any other places because again, I just keep saying that that you spend most of the time naked, right, in the bathroom, right? So you expose all the skin to the lighting in that space and then you receive the lighting information through the all the skin surface you have. So from that scientical perspective, I think it's really important. I I totally agree. And even um we did a podcast recently um with Dan on the on home automation integration. And I know we're working on that, talking about that and whatnot on other projects, but something that I wasn't even aware of that he talked about is the lighting now can be circadian rhythm tuned. So that you can change the warmth and coolness of the lighting based on the on the time of day. Yeah. Or on what you want it to be. So like you walk in in the morning and it's a little bright, you know, like comes up slow, right? it kind of wakes you up a little bit and then gets brighter and then during the day it's a little brighter and at night it starts to calm it down and that you know so like because I know we we always talk about what warmth do you want on a light but here what he's saying is that it can be actively changed it should be you know as the as the day goes that's how nature is right exactly and so that's like now becoming really available so I'm really I'm like oh we have to know more about this I didn't really know that that I know we we pick and we set it right when we put the light in, but now you can control it right all the time. I know. So, looking forward to that one. We talked about heated uh floors. What about the colors right here in the Pacific Northwest and maybe other places like we went through the gray decade, right? I mean, at least right where every inside of every house was version still going on though. But you think you're bringing more to it though now? Uh, I think we shifted to more like a taupey or brown, okay, side of it, but I still see more like a subtle colors. Um, it's still popular, okay? You know, and another popular is like a more like a colorful Moroccan bath, you know, so more like a saturated color as a accent somewhere in the shower area. Okay. But not everywhere because that that that's counter to our soothing. Correct. Correct. But these are more muted tones. Exactly. It's more like a patina look tile, not the satur. No, it's not. It's tone down thing. Uh so that's a trend that we see a lot these days. But uh yeah, we have the one client that's doing a pretty heavily influenced Moroccan primary bathroom. That's a that's a very extreme Moroccan. But but I see some more Moroccan inferences uh not directly but let's say like a delig tile you know like auated surface and more like a handcraft tile that's a influence from the Morocco. Right. Right. And that's interesting sort of how the pendulum swings. Yes. Right. So years ago when we first started everything was ceramic tile. It was fat grout lines because the tile each one was a little bit different size. Right. Right. And so that's one of the things like you see like you know you walk into the to some place and they've got these big wide grout lines because every tile is handmade and they're all different sizes and you can't put two tiles right next to each other that are a little bit different size and have tight grout lines. And so that was the way it was for a long time. And then and then we got to this cut tile like where they were really precision cutting it and the grout lines got smaller, right? Because every single tile was very very close to the same size. So we could make the grout lines smaller. So now you're saying we're going back to a more handmade look, which is going to drive the grout lines apart a little bit. Correct. Correct. They like the not the straight line. They like more handmade look. Right. It's not handmade, but it's more like a handmade look. Right. It's more I think the way I would describe it is that it's there are no straight lines in nature. That's true. Very, very few straight lines in nature. No, nothing, right? I mean, like every now and then you see a pretty straight tree, right? You know, but but it's not straight, right? It's not really, but I mean, it's like it's about one of the straightest things you're going to find, right? You know, it's like maybe a straight tree, but they're not many. And they're not all of it. It's just part of it, right? So there's no straight lines in nature. And so when you see this very c like the tile is all cut like that's not part of kind of the nature that we evolved in. That's not our space. That's not a natural environment for us. that is a truly built and manipulated right space that we made right and and I think there's some component of deep in the in the base DNA that that's unsettling because it's not where like we sort of came from [laughter] right and so there's always this component of like h and I think people are going back to this more natural flowy less straight lines you know more you know just kind of morphs and moves and things like that, right? That's that's what people like demanding. You know, people are sick and tired of some digital things or something mathematical. I think I think there's so much of that everywhere else in our life, right? So, I think we're looking for non-perfect or, you know, just that more natural non-straight line correct look like, you know, I mean, if you're walking through the woods and you see a perfect circle, right? You're going to reach down and it's probably like a quarter that someone dropped that's got some dirt over it, right? Like that's not a didn't occur there naturally. Like your eyes going to pick that up and go, "Oh, that's weird." Yeah. You know, or you see an exact straight line. You're like, "What is that?" You know, you're going to pick that up. That's weird. That doesn't belong here. Exactly. You know, it jumps out at you. And I think some of that stuff like these, you know, going back to that more organic organic. Yeah, great word, right? Organic flow of space that is not so carved and chucked. Yeah, especially like a bathroom. So again, you want to, you know, relax at the end of the day. 100%. Right. You don't want to see the perfect 90 degrees line. I don't think so. In your shower. I don't think so. Um, so one of the things that I see you guys in design doing more and more is is like these bathroom ceilings are getting indirect lighting. They're getting, you know, lighting in the niche of the shower because we always do a soap niche or do a couple of them, right? Or we have the shaving niche to put your foot on, right? You know, like you can split your leg up to shave or wash your feet or whatever. I have one. I love it. And like we see all these that that's a space or a place that I think we're seeing more. It's not just white ceiling done, couple of can lights and a light over the mirror, right? It's that's evolving. What's the new type thing that you do there? Are you tiling these? Are you putting wood on them? Like the paneling stuff, a little bit of everything. Trying to bring some of that in and the lighting or the ceiling. Just doing something to the ceiling with the hidden lighting, right? The indirect lighting. Yes. Uh so, well, I designed like the teak look. Um, it's a tile, but it's a teak look. Looks wood. Yeah. So, I wrap it from the wall of the shower through the ceiling and then come down and the other side of the shower, you know, because it was such a volume area of the uh tub and the shower area. So, sometime we do something on the ceiling to bring the spaces more like enclosed in that area. Otherwise, it's just that you see the uh drywall ceiling, you know, and I I think again that being a square box, which is not natural for us. Yeah. Right. Like we're going like if you put the ceiling and you do something to it and you give it a little movement variation and the light is that it takes those edges away. Correct. Right. And like take an eraser and kind of fuzzy the edge, you know, just fuzz the edge a little bit so it's, you know, it's not it's not [snorts] so sharp. Yeah. So, okay. [music]
um things that we aren't doing, right? Let's see. Vessel sinks. Not much. Still, yeah, still um like again depends upon the purpose, right? You know, uh I still want to put that in a powder room. You know, the powder room is the only public space in the house. So, because guests come and then, you know, guests use it, right? So, I want to jazz up Yeah. the area. I always say that, you know, like, yeah, this is very expensive tile. Yeah. You know, but if you're going to put it and put it in the powder room because we only need 25 square feet of it, correct? You know, we don't need a half acre. Correct. You know, so yeah, it's it's $45 a square foot, but it's it's 25 square feet. We don't need much. Exactly. And it just looks po, right? It's a punch. So, yeah. So we still spec out like a vessel sink and a powder room something unique you know like a glass glass I just I think about the vessel sink what that is is this was a big what '90s trend right is that when that came in 2000s maybe like that so the vessel sink and everybody's seen these it's like the sink bowl sits up on top of the countertop or a lot of it is on top and some below and they look cool but they're not really highly functional because when the stuff splashes is out on the you have to wipe it up. You can't reach around, [laughter] you know. So for a powder room, it's great. But like for a primary bathroom you're using every day, totally impractical in my opinion. [laughter] I I wouldn't do it. So Okay. So you're still using them, but more in the powder room thing. More like a statement. Yeah. Not in an everyday space. Okay. But the powder room is still bathroom kind of thing, right? So But it's not You're not showering. No. you know, you're not doing all the makeup and all that stuff. Generally speaking, it's kind of potty, wash your hands, you know, check yourself and get out of there. Correct. Right. Correct. [snorts] Um, uh, let's see. Matching everything. Don't do a lot of that much doing like floor wall thing, blah, blah, blah. Everything's the same. Well, except you're mixing except if I see some a tile, it comes in a certain color and a flat surface for the floor and some like, you know, like a a curved, you know, has a like a 3D um effect on the surface. I expect uh for one of the bathroom. So, the again the same color floor and the wall, but the wall has a texture. Mhm. So if that's the case, it's worked really well, right? You know, but not the exactly same one, same one, same one everywhere. Don't do a lot of that anymore. Try to talk people out of that. No. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What about um this one is sort of random, but we do a lot linear drains in a shower, you know, or curbless, right? You know, like that whole thing, right? I mean, that's a back to safety. Safety. right? You know, so for for people with, you know, some mobility issues or future proofing, you know, maybe everything's great right now, but you're going to be in the house for the next 20 years and you're trying to grow old in the home. I would say loud that uh uh those kind of stuff like a grab bars or you know that safety, you know, curveless or something. It's not only for the people who is for aging. Uh, you never know. You're gonna go ski and then broke your leg next year. You know, you never know. You probably hit somebody and then in a car accident and then you be disabled. Uh, some of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You you're temporarily limited mobility. So, I I say like a grab bar is not something for the old people only. It's for everybody, right? Everybody. And they don't have to look like the hospital grab bars anymore. They can be very stylish. Yeah, exactly. Or maybe somebody who's pregnant, you know, like it's very well seats in in showers or, you know, places to sit down. I think we do a lot of that. Maybe safety is again the very number one goal. I know that we like to even if we always put the backing in the wall for like future grab bar like I'm going to screw a grab bar to this at some point and I want there to be wood there. And even I know you're a stickler for this is before we start while we're doing the drawing like she's going to do an elevation and say here's where the towel bar goes and here is the towel bar. It's this big. gets this far from the corner and then there's a dot and the guys in the field know that they got to do solid blocking behind that so that when we go to screw that thing to the wall, it's not just being screwed to drywall so that when that kid comes along and rips the towel off that the towel bar is going to come down, right? You know, it's strong and and won't won't be a problem down the road. Exactly. But I I think that that grab bar thing is really important. I like the curbless shower. Yeah, that that's so much easier to do, right? You don't have to step in. It's a cool look. Right. Right. It's very safe. You know, if you little slippery, right? You don't have to do that. Um retrofitting a curbless shower, meaning there's no you don't have to step in. It just goes down flat. You've probably seen one, but you can put those in your house that doesn't have one now. We can retrofit those in to some extent. It depends on the construction, right? It could be difficult if you have a slab. If you have a concrete slab, then we have to chop it up. But it can be done. If you have a wooden, you're on the second floor or first floor and it's a wooden frame. We can do it to some extent. You can't make it 82 ft long because there's slope. But we can do some without significant structural change, you know, and then we can do more with structural change. Like you do whatever you want if you're willing to have us reframe that section of floor. Right. Right. So, I think those are cool. So, then we're we're going along as we always do here. So, last couple of things I want to talk about is the the materials, the new stuff. And we've touched on this. We did like so stone and stone look, right? Like so textured porcelain like we're doing tactile stuff now. Yeah. Right. You want that texture. Like you just mentioned the one you went across and went up and it had texture. Correct. Right. So that kind of thing. Fluted tile with just tile with texture of all kinds. Right. There's fluts and there spirals and things like it's just not a flat right like image of color now. Right. So there's color and texture. Correct. Right. And that you're really trying to use it and I guess that might be why is that now? Is it like because manufacturing is easier to do they can do that or people are just tired of the old thing and people are trying to come up with something that people like and so like we haven't tried this let's do this you know. So I think technology get advanced these days so they can do some you know 3D effect. I don't I don't disagree. It's more affordable and it's just different. Correct. People just get tired of the same thing all the time. Right. So like I just don't want to do something human beings. It keeps Yeah. It just keeps evolving. Right. Right. How about this one? You know it used to be long back in the day. Right. That that it was either kind of ceramic tile. Okay. are natural stone, right? Remember that when there wasn't really much in between like you could do a natural stone countertop or you could do natural stone tile floor. They would still cut it into tiles, but it would be granite or marble or whatever. And then natural stone in the shower walls and that kind of thing, but again cut into chunks. Um, how much real stone are we using anymore? I would say very [sighs] little. Yeah, I my impression is a little I don't see you guys speak it. Yeah, maybe as a just a tiny portion as a accent behind a niche or something like that. Otherwise, unfortunately, it requires some maintenance. It does you have to seal it. You had to take care of the grow you know. So, from that perspective, again, people are having a busy life, right? People cannot pay attention to the tile in the shower every day. Oh, I have to seal my tile every six months. I got to put it on the calendar, you know. Exactly. So, uh and also like a the technology of making the porcelain got advanced. They can mimic the look of the stone really well. So good. Now, almost sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between and the one that I see that I think they do the best is like the marbles. Yes. You know, like a real piece of Kolkata marble or slate, you know, slate is almost like and then and then a piece of [snorts] faux. Yes. If you don't turn it over, sometimes you almost can't tell the difference because it's that good. Yeah. Now, so with that being said, you know, cuz less expensive, of course, and then less maintenance and less expensive to install. Correct. Typically, even for the same size piece. Correct. Because stone is just inherently harder to work with. Exactly. Okay. So, we're evolving past the basic ceramic or the natural stone where technology has allowed us to do other stuff. I think so, but the look still alive. You know what I mean? Like people still attract to the look of it, right? So, I'm one of the huge fan of the look of the marble in the bathroom. You just don't use real marble. Correct. You use a we preserve the look, right? or you use a engineered quartz or something like that that is faux marble. Better performance, lower cost, less maintenance, all that stuff but still looks [laughter] like that. Yeah. All right. Great. So, look, we're we're we're doing good here, right? We we're evolving the technology, right? So, then the the are limestone and travertine are they making a comeback? They did. They did. Okay. They did. All right. It used to be travertine. Travatine everywhere. Right. Right. But uh yeah, it came back limestone the travitin look. Uh but in a porcelain Oh, not really. Not really. Not. So the look is coming back, but you're not traine is the worst application for the bathroom tile. So soft. So soft. Sucks everything. You even see the bubbles and holes and everywhere on the surface. Right. So, uh but we could preserve the look, but it's a less maintenance version. Okay. So stylistically, yes, but material, no. We're able to do a good fake essentially faux and people like, "Oh, I don't want the maintenance. I don't want the cost. I love the look. Now I have a a good proxy. Let's use that." Yes. Okay. So, all right. What about wood and wood look? Uh, because you mentioned you're doing a teak tile. Yeah. It's it's a it's still alive. I mean, it's very still like uh popular, you know, because of Japy, right? you know, in France, I guess. But, uh, I mean, it's a timeless thing, right? You know, the teak in the bathroom is more like a timeless thing, right? So, do you do any real wood in there? Are we doing much real? I haven't seen except the teak bench or something like that. You know, you're not doing walls or not really in a dry sauna. Yes. Yes. But not in a wet area. Um, but again, the bench, the teak bench, it's the timeless things. It's always available. It's always demanding. Yeah. I put teak in the shower floor, the teak tiles that float in the shower floor of my sort of guest house bathroom because it very rarely gets used. It's, you know, I thought it was a cool look and it's just the pieces they're up on so they can take them up, right? And it's just I it's sort of unusual. Yeah. But it's teak and I kind of like it. And if I go if it goes bad, I can just always put tile in. Yeah. You know, it's like And also like a wood uh not necessarily in a shower, but you know, like a Japanese tub, it's made of the aroma wood, you know, some kind of That's the real authentic one. Yes. Because we're doing the they do the porcelain ones or you know the fiberglass ones, but I'm talking about the real one. The real one. Yeah. Yeah. So it's still popular. I mean, again, it's a timeless thing. It's going to exist forever, right? So, always some component of that out there floating around. Yes. Okay. What about um metals and and hardware and things like that in in the bathroom? Are you is there more kind of the same amount? We're not adding, you know, where I mean, I know there's obviously you got your sinks or your faucets and your shower hardware and knobs on cabinets and light fixtures. Yeah. your tall bars, those kind of things. Are you expanding beyond the sort of minimum in metal people at doing that or Nah, not so much. Not so much. Not so much. So that's sort of staying the same way. There was a minute there where there was a lot of metal tile. Remember metal tile? I wrap the tile in metal and like we're putting metal on the walls. It's like what is this? Why are we doing this? Oh, one that I wanted to ask you about is the is the floating vanity. Okay. Is that because that the one where the it doesn't sit on the floor. Yeah. Right. So it sits up. You got yay much room below it. Always lit. Yes. Down there. Yeah. Like what is that kind of there? Not there. Absolutely. It's still kind of not trendy. Again, it's more like a timeless thing. Oh yeah. Always. Well, the good thing about that is uh you can make the space looks more spacious if you see because you can see further back the room feels bigger. So if we have like some space challenging bathroom I want to specify the floating vanity so that kind of you know cheat your eyes. Oh my god, it's a spacious. Yeah. Make it feel bigger than it really is. And you don't give up much in storage because no, the bottom of the cabinet's already just to kick nothing. And then you take a little bit of that away and oh, we got the space and it looks way bigger. Okay. Terzo, is that one of, you know, looking around like what's the stuff? You seeing anything with it was hot two years ago. Super hot, but it's a fading away. What about glass? just generally glass. So sometimes like glass tile or the glass composite. Remember the like the stone ice stone like that was the countertop that was a glass recycled thing. I don't see the grass tile anymore. Don't see that much. Maybe it's gone but it will come back. Right. That's a thoroughly. So maybe two years later see some GL. So if you want to be on the leading edge of tile, maybe go [laughter] put some glass tile in. Right. Cuz that was a big thing for a while, right? Yeah, you and it was a pain in the butt to install because you could see through it. I know. So, you had to make sure the back was maintenance is probably so Yeah. So rough. Um maybe that's why it went away. And it wasn't inexpensive at all. But what if like a technology advanced and then somebody invented the glass tile doesn't have a watermark at all? It could be. I don't know. So, okay. Well, let's see. All right. We got a few more minutes here. So, we've talked a lot about materials and and finishes and that kind of thing and the trends of that and whatnot, but what about the and we and we did a lot on the functionality, but is there something from a functionality standpoint that we left out? Cuz to me, right, there's there's two components to the not just the bathroom, but to all the spaces that we talk about is there's the the the the function portion of it of the job it needs to do. You know, I need to go in there and shower and I need to use the sink and wash my face and, you know, bathroom and all of that stuff. And so there's that functionality component and the space and how you move through it. Right. And then there's the styling of it. Right. Right. So those two different things. And I know I think where I like mine is that always really want to start with the layout, right? Who was it that said form follows function? Was that Gaudy? No, one of the architects. He was an architect, not Randolph Gaudy. I'll look it up and figure out. Yeah. So form follows function, meaning make it work right first, right? And then you can style it, which is the form of what it looks like, right? So are are you still of that mind that you want to talk about functionality and get through that and what do they need like that comes back to the one two sink thing right are we doing that you know like function would be putting the toilet in a separate space right that would be functionality is like let's let's do that if you don't have it like that's a change of function right makes it better um no curb in the shower bigger shower longer vanity one sink instead of two and or countertop space, you know, and places to put all your stuff, right, to bring that soothing component in. And then let's look at your Pinterest board. Mhm. Right. Let's make it work, right? With very little thought about what it's going to sort of how it's going to be styled early on. Right. Right. Because most people start there. Yes. That's where they start. I want it to look like this. I like this photo. I like this thing. And but we're like, wait, wait, wait. We got to back up. Right. Right. A little bit. Yeah. Now we have the constraint of like I just need to update it. I don't really I don't have the space to change it. I can't you know my budget doesn't allow for that. So then it's how can we best do that? But that functionality is always where I want to start. That's so true. Right. That is so true. You know is it what is what we need more space you know the one thing we don't use the tub like that's a function thing like let's change that and get the function right. Right. And then now we can start to look at your Pinterest board and style it and bring in those colors and yes that soothing spa feel and the lighting and right because there's so many code uh application that we had to think for the bathroom you know in front of the toilet you have to have more than I can't remember 21 or 24 in something like that you have to have a center line from the toilet to the sun builtin has to be more than 15 you So uh from that perspective um we have to come up with a good layout first you know something legal something safe first that's reasonable. Yeah. Yeah. And then we can pick some skin color later. Then we start to tile it or style it. Yeah. You know I [snorts] like to tell people and describe it this way is that the first thing we want to do is we want to build you a really good mannequin. You know like we want to know what's underneath is really well done. It's got the right stuff. And then once that's done, then you can dress it any way you want. Right. Exactly. Right. You can put formal clothes on it, informal clothes, beach, summer, winter, ski, you know, whatever. But underneath it's the what's, you know, really underneath under the surface. The bone underneath, right? Yeah. Yeah. What's really under that surface is really well done and really well thought out and functions really well. And then you do whatever you want to from a c again back to form follows function. Yes. Right. And I think we're I believe that way, you know, and that's that's part of what I does and what we do here is that, you know, not only hear you out, but make you think, you know, ask you questions to think about stuff like maybe you've never thought about, do we really need two sinks? You've just assumed we need two sinks because there's always been two sinks and that's what we're supposed to do. And or do you really need the tub? Do you really need the tub? Exactly. like let's like, you know, push back a little bit and make you run that drill, right? And and then if you do, great. Let's put the tub in. It's not like we're trying to talk you out of the tub, right? We just want you to be sure that you're doing what you're doing for you and for the right reasons and for the goals you're trying to achieve and not just because, well, there's a tub there now. I have to put a tub back. Yeah. No, you don't. No, you don't. You absolutely don't have to put a tub back. You can. That's totally fine. Maybe it's not a drop in. Maybe it's a freestanding, you know, whatever the case may be. So, just exploring that in terms of what the options are and what do you need and like correct, does a heated floor pay off for you? Do you see benefit in that? Like, well, no, I like rugs all over my tile floor, so I'm not going to get much out of [laughter] a heated floor cuz I don't really touch the floor. I just go from rug to rug to rug. Okay. You know, then you don't need a heated floor, right? You know, make the room a little cozier, but you're not going to touch it. Then maybe not. Don't spend that money. Yes. So, anyways, we've taken a ton of time here. I think Is there anything we've left out of bathrooms that you want to make sure we talk about? I think we talk pretty much everything. Again, my main goal is the safety in the bathroom. And the second is a relaxation and somewhere you can kind of rinse off all the mess that you have in the day, you know. But more than a physical cleansing and reset an emotional mental both. Right. Right. Yeah. Both being able to do both. Right. Exactly. And wash that physically wash that the day away and the grime and stuff like that, but also all that stuff, right? Yes. And yeah, that mental emotional reset in addition to the exterior reset. Yes, it's really important space in the house. I think it is. And I don't know that I've given it enough thought and consideration for how impactful that can be done right. That's a different topic, Charlie. Probably that it makes a difference. And that by contrast, if you make a busy chaotic space with all these colors and you have all their bottles sitting out and stuff like that, you're like, you start your day like this and you end your day like this, right? You know, it's like too much information in the morning. Right. Exactly. I totally agree. And I don't know that I've, you know, sitting here talking with you about it. I don't know that I've really thought about it to that degree, but I think you're absolutely right and that that's super important and and I'm going to talk about that with clients and like, hey, let's think about this. You know, particularly when you go and you see their bathroom and their way they live and you're like, "Oh, this stuff's all [laughter] how would you then I would present like can you imagine like you walk in and none of it and it's all put away and there's a spot for stuff and it's very soothing and the lighting and the colors like do you think that would change your outlook and start to the day and your end of the day, right? As you wind it down, do you think that less of that would be beneficial to you?" Mhm. And some people like, I know, you know, but you know, then we can show them like, look at this. Look at this bathroom. You know, doesn't that feel, you know, a little better? So, thank you for that. I think that's really important. I think that something that I haven't thought enough about, you know, I'm always so functionalbased. That's again that's the number one thing but uh at the same time you know like especially like a bathing in a tub that's the time that you focus on yourself you know um it's not like efficient because it takes more time to warm up your body than the shower but it's a good time to face yourself and then focus it and then rinse off something unnecessary stuff you know so it's a good therapy it's It's a good therapy and you can do casually every day if you have a right bathroom in your home. So, that's a great point. That's a great point. I really not only a fabulous designer, also a therapist. I'm not [laughter] Don't Don't call me. No, no, I know what you mean. She's not a licensed therapist. Don't let me get there wrong. But you're totally right in the impact that can have right on a person and how they feel and how they start their day, how they finish their day, you know, which would I think go so far into into you know making you have more energy and focused and be better in the day and then and then clean up and and reset, right? I'm actually really interested in that. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was a really cool discussion. So ya again learning so much from her. I've known her more than 20 years and totally learned something today from her which I typically do if I be quiet and listen. [laughter] She's not going to like talk you down, but when she does talk, there's typically good stuff there that she will say and bring to the table. So um that's great. I really appreciate it. If you are thinking about a bathroom and you're thinking about my space is okay, go in there and look right now or just close your eyes. What does my bathroom look right now? Is it soothing? Is it settling? Is it regenerative, regenerative to you? Do you feel better and calm and ready to take on the day and able to wash away not only the physical dirt and grime of the day, but the emotional and mental stress and wash that away? Does your space do that? Lots. I would say no, they don't. And if that's something that you think you could benefit from and really get some impact on and you do need to do your bathroom anyway, give us a call. We got the lady right here and we'll come out. We'll take a look. We'll talk about it. Show you what you can do. Get you some numbers. Get a sense of it. Is it the right thing? Is now the right time? Maybe not. Maybe then down the road. but just imagining and understanding what you could do in having a space like that and how cool that could be and how impactful it could be on your dayto-day. So, thank you A. I appreciate it. Josh, sir, thank you. Thank you. Signing off for another edition of Let's Build with Armada, the podcast. Check us out. YouTube, where are we? Apple, all the places, Instagram, Shorts, Reels, podcasty stuff. Like, share, subscribe, rate, review, comment down below. If you want one of these things, you want us to come out, we'll check it out for you. Come on into the showroom, have us out to your house. Thank you again. We appreciate it. Until next time, Charlie signing off and we'll see you with more cool podcasts down the road.