Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Regenerative by Design Podcast where we get to the root of health, climate, economics and food. Host, Joni Kindwall-Moore, is an RN, an Ethnobotanist and the founder of Snacktivist Foods. Join us on this journey as we explore the ideas, stories and personalities behind the regenerative food system movement including climate change, human health, economics and food as well as other deeply interconnected topics.
In this podcast, we will be “going there” and leaning into topics that might make you squirm… just a little. We want to challenge ourselves to think outside of the box and to discover the deeper side of our world’s problems so that we can better understand how to solve them.
We aim to unpack some of the most dynamic issues of our day with some of the most inspiring minds who are pushing the boundaries of our current norms and thinking paradigms.
We have seen incredibly disruptive events in the past few years like pandemics, climate events, disasters and war. These often trigger system changes that are reactionary and have short term gains. When these are practiced over the long term, they often have a degenerative effect on health and the environment.
Regenerative design thinking is the opposite, and is an intentional, premeditated process that involves a high level of observation, analysis, creativity, and looking beyond reductionistic principles while embracing systems thinking and additionality to create regenerative solutions.
Regenerative agriculture has become a powerful force for positive transformation and hope in todays world. And no discussion about agriculture is complete without a conversation about food.
Food is the connection between people and the planet so grab a cup of coffee or your favorite running shoes and get ready to take a mental and philosophical leap into the future of food and our planet.
Joanne, hello everyone. You are
listening to the regenerative by
design podcast where we will be
getting to the root of health,
climate, economics and food. I
am your host. Joni quinwell
Moore. Join me on this journey
as we explore the stories of
individuals and organizations
who are working to realign our
food system with both human
health and the health of our
planet. Hello everybody, and
thank you for joining the
regenerative by design podcast.
I am so thrilled to have our
guest here today, Ali Cox of
noble West, calling in from
California. Welcome Ali,
thanks for having me on. Joni,
yeah, I'm so excited I Ali and I
have known each other for a
couple of years, and I think,
you know, we definitely
pioneered a lot of our
enthusiasm for each other around
our love of making farmers the
center of the story and
rethinking that farmer narrative
and the American food system,
not just through the lens of
like tractors and overalls, But
through farmers as sophisticated
CEOs that feed the world. He's
going to kick it off with that
exactly because it's really not
about the tractor. It's really
not about in my, my opinion,
it's not really about the AG,
it's actually about the food.
This is a food system. It's not
an it should not be an
agriculture system. So that is a
thing where I feel like, Joni,
you and I have always sort of
aligned on, like, how do we give
the people what they need in
order to make decisions that are
value based? And also, you know,
just climate focused in a lot of
ways
and a percent. And, you know,
it's interesting, what the power
of words and like just
vernacular. Because when you
talk to farmers today who are
frustrated with the current
model, they often mention that
they don't like just growing
commodities. They actually want
to grow food again. And from
people outside of our work, they
often don't, don't realize that
that's happening, and I think
that contributes to that
separation culturally between
agriculture and food, when in
reality, that's where our food
system starts, is there in the
field. And so I know that you
have an incredible amount of
wisdom when it comes to
unpacking this content and this
story, because you work as a
marketer, and I would love for
you to share with our audience a
little bit about noble West and
your background, you actually
have a really fun and
fascinating story. But how did
you get to where you are today,
where you're you're
intentionally working to tell
those stories about high quality
supply chains that impact human
health, impact the climate, but
also, you know, still make the
farmer the hero of the story.
Thank you. Um, so noble West is
a marketing agency, and we do
quite a few advertising
campaigns that are all
agriculture or food ingredient
based. So like I started off,
saying we're an agricultural
marketing agency, and frankly, I
don't actually think that's
perfectly accurate anymore. Now
I think we are a sustainability
consultancy. I think that we are
climate focused consultancy, and
really we're just getting more
and more narrow in our approach
and but it all kind of goes back
to the food ingredient. We work
with farmers, we work with
processors, we work with Mills,
who are looking to create more
value for their food to get a
bigger ROI. We work in a lot of
ag tech companies who are
looking to sort of stabilize and
like future, like future focus
of future minded farming
operations. And it's a real it's
a real honor. And I think I
should probably start off by
mentioning I am a fifth
generation farmer on both sides
of my family, so on my mom's
side and my dad's side. So I
have always grown up in farming.
All of I have, you know, been
raised by all entrepreneurs and
risk takers. Let's be real. So
for me, it's really about like,
it's really about honoring my
history in my past, but quite
frankly, understanding that what
God is here is not going to get
us there, and so we have a lot
of work to do. Because I think
the whole crux of the matter is,
is that farmers, especially if
they're a contract farmer, and
they don't own their own brand
or they don't own their own
processing equipment, they are
effectively just like a cog in
the supply chain, which means
that they're only compensated on
yield and nothing else. They're
not compensated on the
qualitative measures, on how
they farm, on the investments
they make on farm. So for them,
they're trying to be as
efficient as possible and create
the most yield, which, as you we
all know here, that's the
freaking problem, and that also
doesn't align with what
consumers want. And it also just
doesn't incentivize like,
really, like, some of the
qualitative like, like things
that consumers are looking for,
which is. Is, right? And, you
know, if you don't have a brand,
you really, it's a whole
different story.
Yeah, it's interesting how
yield, and this kind of just
quantity over quality paradigm
has really taken hold across the
food system, the majority of the
food system, and I often like to
say it's like a it's like a tug
of war between efficiency and
effectiveness, because we need
efficiency. We don't want waste.
Do we want high productivity in
whatever way is reasonable and
holistic, but we really need to
make sure that it's effective,
and if the effectiveness of any
activity in food and agriculture
comes down to impact on human
health and resiliency in
pertaining to the environment
and and climate, etc. So if
we're driving efficiency at the
cost of effectiveness and
creating an epidemic, a diet
related disease and an enormous,
you know, tragedy of
environmental destruction, then
it doesn't matter how efficient
it is, it will ultimately fail
because it's an unbalanced
system. You know, I feel like in
some commodities, this has been
way more pronounced than in
others. And I know you're from
California, which has an
incredibly rich and biodiverse
farming sector. What are the
crops that you've historically
worked with, and what are the
ingredients that you're
passionate about that are more
regionally representative from
your past, growing up as a as a
farm kid, or even now, the stuff
that you're working with today?
Well, in California, there are
over 400 crops that are grown
and marketed through the
California marketing order,
through the CDFA, and for all of
those, like ag junkies out there
who are listening to this
podcast. If you're like me, I
you'll probably find a lot of
interest of value in reading the
California the CDF, California
Department of Food and Ag
acreage report. It is absolutely
fascinating. Top exports in from
California being dairy, grapes
and almonds in most cases, and
then stone fruits, really
citrus. Stone fruit are really
close behind. So what I would
say is we work in like I think
that we're just really become
specialty crop experts, and it's
so much so that now, like we're
working in, you know, with ag
tech companies who do special
our specialty crop ag technology
experts and whatnot. And, you
know, on our family farm, we
grow almonds, we grow walnuts,
we have tomatoes, we have beans,
we have apricots, we have
cherries. And then in my husband
and my farm management business,
we do contract harvesting and
contract management for
additional crops, but very
heavy, especially like we're
based in Stanislaus County,
which is an enormous almond
growing region. It's just this,
this perfect climate ecosystem
for almonds. It's not humid,
it's incredibly hot. It's also
wet in the winter,
traditionally. So anyway, so
that's what we grow. So by the
way, yeah, thank you. We like to
think so, yeah. And so we at
Noble West, we really work on
the specialty crops, although we
have done quite a few
regenerative projects, as you
know, and which, and
regenerative, frankly, is like
being driven from the Midwest.
And I think it's just because,
like, there's less crop
diversity and bio, like
biodiversity. And so it's
actually, I want to just say,
easier to grow regeneratively,
because there's less factors. So
if you think about regenerative
farming on an almond orchard
versus like a wheat field, it's
a whole different situation.
Where, in wheat it's really
about like how you're telling
how often you're telling the
depth of your tilling and
whatnot. In almonds, it's about
the type of livestock that
you're managing. It's about, you
know, because there isn't, it's
how you absolutely change how
you harvest. Are you doing off
ground harvesting versus on
ground harvesting, dust
creation. So there's so many
factors. And the same goes for
fresh produce also. So like, a
strawberry field, like, you
can't, like, put like, you know,
like an almonds you would put,
like, there's a lot of sheep
that are now, like, running
through orchard, like green
pasture orchards, and having
like, the best life ever, like,
that is not you cannot do that
in produce. You have all sorts
of food safety issues anyway,
but it's part of it. But I mean,
I think that Joni, what you have
done, and with this podcast and
with your brand snackivist, is
really, I think, creating
education for consumers in a way
that maybe they didn't have
before, and that's just
something that I am so such. I'm
such a fangirl of yours, and.
And admire your approach, I
know. So
it's so great because it, you
know, I immediately found and
I'm a nurse. I mean, I'm a nurse
and a biologist. I was a
biologist first, and a nurse
second. But in nursing, your job
is, you are the interpreter of
the medical system, because
you're the person who actually
talks to the patients like, you
know, in the medical setting,
you know, you come in, the
doctor might say a few words,
you chances are you don't
understand it. And it's, it's
the nurses that really do the
heavy lifting when it comes to
education and implementation of
anything. And so I feel like, in
a way, brands are like the
nurses of the food system, in
that way, because they are that
connection point and that point
of humanization between
agriculture and all the big
moving parts of the food system
and the end consumer. It's
really where that that touch
point happens, unfortunately, in
CPG. I mean, CPG is a consumer
packaged goods that's the
consumer side that is an
expensive and very difficult
place to do business right now
that I think most brands are
really struggling, where their
access to capital and their
access to money to pay for
education has been severely
compromised just because of the
economy and the way that the
system is built, which has been
a struggle. I know that though
you know my friends and
colleagues that are in the
marketing and branding side you
know, have really felt that, and
it's it's unfortunately ill
timed for the regenerative
movement, because I feel like
there's never been a more
important time to really that
consumer humanization narrative.
It's so critical right now, and
people are aching for it. People
are aching for brands that they
can connect with and that they
feel like are providing that
education and that connection
that they desperately feel like
they need,
and Joanie that they can afford.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, most of us can't afford
to go to Erwan every day, sorry,
airwan, Whole Foods, all of
those places. I mean, the
reality is, is that the average
American is dependent on Walmart
for a large portion of their
caloric caloric intake every day
because of the reality of their
economics and discretionary
spending.
Although I do have to say, you
mentioned Walmart, yeah, Walmart
gets an incredibly bad rap in a
lot of ways. But I do need to
say, like, speaking from again,
back to produce, because we work
in specialty project gigatron
with Walmart has been, like,
humongously game changing, yeah.
And is the drive, frankly, for
more sustainably grown produce.
And we just don't see that
following in the middle of the
store, if I'm being honest, like
that's like, it's driving and so
project Giga Tron, what is it?
104 point checkpoint like that,
like, grower, grower, packer,
shippers and produce have to
comply with in order to be
eligible for purchase in the
produce section, they're
auditing social responsibility
with their farmers, water
management, AG, technology,
packaging, recyclable, like
recycling, like, I mean, it is,
it is on, it is very intense on
farm. It's also super intense in
the packing sheds. So like that
is a driver, and I just, I
wonder and hope, honestly, when
that is going to be the case for
CPG, so for that, and that is a
place where I don't know. I
don't know, based on private
label, how is private label
helping or hurting us? I think,
typically, it's hurting us. I
believe in de commoditization. I
think that, like I want
consumers to have more of an
understanding of the brands that
they do support. But okay,
you're we're talking a lot about
brands. So Joanie, who do you
think is responsible for
educating the public about how
to make food choices that align
with their values that they
maybe didn't even know about
that's a tough one, because I
think there's so many people in
so many organizations that
probably, like, inadvertently
contribute to the knowledge base
of customers, some of them being
big, like, really, like, kind of
off the radar. You wouldn't even
think it. But like, celebrity
influencers and whatnot, and
again, those are those things
that, like emerging brands,
cannot afford to access. But I
feel like a lot of the consumer
discovery around new diet
trends, new brands that are, you
know, maybe spotlighting super
sustainable ingredients. Often
the break comes when there's
somebody who's big and on stage
and has a lot of natural PR
whole discovers it. And you
know, I've been working for
years to try to get a celebrity
to just even back the plight of
like underutilized crops, like
millet, sorghum, there's a whole
slew of underutilized crops that
would you. Know, really make a
lot of sense to bring into our
food system in a more major way.
But I've yet to find a celebrity
who was interested in backing
something like that, because it
costs so much to to get their
time. So, you know, there's
brand. There's definitely been
brands that have been very
successful at harnessing that
influencer pool. And you know,
where we're, where most brands
are at are the micro
influencers, and they pull a lot
of weight. I feel like the whole
Snapchat world, the Institute,
Instagram and YouTube shorts, is
now kind of leading the charge
on disseminated, decentralized
marketing education at the
consumer level. Because, you
know, even though the big
celebrities, like, they get a
lot of the attention, like, I
feel like they make a splash,
and suddenly everyone's talking
about something. But you know,
these micro influencers can be
really, really powerful. And you
know, they can be you can have
an army of small scale
influencers that reach localized
or niche, focused demographics,
and they can really do a lot to
educate consumers and make it
not like a brand education
piece, because people are
suspicious of brand led
education sometimes, because
there's an ulterior motive.
Well, we're all trying to stay
in business, right? Yeah, yeah,
which I would argue is the same
for the farmers and like, that's
what kills me. Is it like there
are so many? I mean, the average
in California, the average farm
size is 470 acres, okay, nobody,
nobody is getting rich on 470
acres, even, unless you're
maybe, like, 10 years ago
growing cannabis illegally.
Like, let's be real. So, yeah, I
know what I mean. Like you, the
thing is, there there's no
succession planning. So, like,
that amount of acreage like, if
you have like, if you have like,
like, that's not enough money
for a family to live on. No, I
would imagine
a huge portion of those folks
probably have to have a one of
the adults on the you know in
the household have an outside
job to pull in benefits and a
stable salary? Well,
absolutely. And also it's really
sad because, like, and this is
something I do want to talk to
you about, because I am super
passionate about this, like, but
it's really sad because you have
families that are growing up in
this agriculture, like, culture.
They've, they've probably an FFA
or in 4h this is part of their
culture, and it's not really
going to be a viable option,
because, like, they will not be
able to afford a family, and
there's probably cousins and
whatnot. But I do have to say so
like, that pulls on my
heartstrings, because, you know,
I grew up a farm kid, and that's
a lot of that is part of that is
my community, yeah, right,
Legacy community, whatnot. And I
love it. It's not all of who I
am, obviously, but it is an
important part of who I am, so
but I just don't this is where I
think over and over and over
again, brands have gotten it
wrong, and marketing has gotten
it wrong is they are advertising
the farming lifestyle, like the
picture of like the, you know,
the video of, like the farmer
waking up before sunrise,
getting their coffee, walking in
their truck, like that is not
supposed that is not that is a
lovely story that is completely
out of touch for basically 98%
of like the country, like, let's
just speaking domestically, like
98% like, they're only like 2%
of people now are farmers. It
used to be like 50% like 100
years ago, yeah. So, like,
that's where, like, we cannot
market that lifestyle. What we
need to market is affordable
food grown by people who are
compensated fairly. And that's
like, that is where I can
continue to see like, brand just
get it wrong. Like, don't market
that story. Market like the
value and the integrity of the
food and not the lifestyle,
because that is where I just
think angry farmers are going to
get more and more angry. And
it's not helpful. It's not
helpful. It's not helpful to the
food system. Let's focus on,
like, doing whatever it takes to
get, like, to be paid fairly,
either through a call pool,
either through like, some sort
of standardization or whatnot,
so that you can continue to
actually produce the food. And,
I mean, in California, like,
there's, there's a wonderful
video that this video from, made
in Fresno, about, like,
literally, how, like, 100 like,
90% of them will just say 90% or
some crazy number of like, all
the stone fruit grown in the
country, all the citrus, is all
grown within 100 miles of
Fresno, California. And just
like, be like, because of water
legislation, like water
legislation and regulation and
whatnot. Just like, if that was
to be compromised, how many less
nutrients would be out in the
food system?
Yeah, it'd be significant.
Not like organically grown,
regeneratively grown,
conventionally grown, whatever.
It would just be significant.
And that's just where I think
there. Just such, like, I cannot
believe the amount of friction
between climate activists and
farming activists,
right? But you can't just not
eat. I mean, that's the whole
thing.
Consumers are like, Oh, screw
it. I'm just gonna get the
cheapest, like, whatever, you
know, and but it's like, Isn't
it sad? It is sad.
And I feel like so many of us
live in that weird divide right
there totally and I agree that
switching the focus on the
farmer as the hero, but not as
an archetype person as much. I
mean, we obviously love our
farmers and love who they are,
but what are they doing that
actually makes the food better
quality. It's not by them living
the lifestyle of being a farmer
that just automatically makes it
better. You know, I mean, like,
like, just because it's farmer
connected doesn't mean it's
better quality. But if your
farmer can articulate their
philosophy and the things that
they do to actually create a
better system that's going to
deliver more nutrition, that's
going to be more climate
resilient. That's going to be
more environmentally sound.
That's That's provocative,
because, again, for me, I get
very excited when I think about,
how can we add diversity of
value streams to farms, so that
bushels per acre, or whatever,
the metric of, you know, timber,
same thing, it's board feet per
acre, you know, the metric of
productivity of farmland
suddenly has a diversity to it
as well. So we've got the actual
productivity, which is yield,
but then we also have like,
productivity, which is like,
Hey, are you doing really good
nutrient management? Are you
reducing how much pollution is
going into the local water, you
know, table in the water system,
are you? Are you reducing
topsoil blow off and runoff,
which is also big time
environment, environmental thing
that actually can be very
costly, like when you look at
the cost of dredging waterways
to get all of that topsoil out
of the waterways, that is
actually a huge externalities
cost. I love thinking of the
farm economy as something more
complex than just. How many
bushels of wheat Did you
produce? Was it higher quality?
Did it have fewer synthetic
chemical residues on it? Does it
have a higher, you know,
phytonutrient profile, for
example, like, if you're growing
something that maybe you know.
And of course, I always default
to these oddball crops that I'm
obsessed with, like sorghum.
But, you know, you look at
sorghum, it's an inexpensive
commodity. It's mostly sold into
animal feed, but it actually has
phytonutrients that contribute
to really great gut health and
also in naturally high in
antioxidants. Some of the
species are comparable to
pomegranate and blueberries when
it comes to antioxidant
antioxidant concentrations, that
is something that is a point of
differentiation that could
eventually make the farming of
that crop more profitable,
because you're not just selling
empty carbohydrates anymore.
You're actually selling
something that has more layers
of value. And then we love
sorghum, because it doesn't need
a lot of irrigation, it needs
very few chemical inputs. It's
super climate resilient. So
there's a lot of wins there.
Those are the things we don't
hear about. And the farmers that
we work with that are doing this
kind of innovation at the field
level. They get really excited
about that. And I love what you
said. It's really about how that
affects food, that affects food
quality, that actually makes for
a healthier population of
Americans when we're consuming
those foods. Now, how do we make
it more affordable? Back to
Walmart. God bless Walmart. On
some things I tell you. I know
they get a lot of a lot of flack
from the regenerative and from
like some of the better for you
communities. But you know,
during the whole entire UN year
of millets, the United Nations
had a big year where would they
talked about millet, sorghum and
these crops and how important
they are. The only retailer in
the world who called me to ask
me how they could participate
and get involved with millet and
sorghum and things was Walmart.
Nobody else I tried to. I
challenged Whole Foods, I
challenged sprouts, I challenged
all of them. Nobody would talk
to me about it. Nobody cared.
Walmart makes it for and reaches
out and says, we want to, we
want to learn more from
a sustainability person like,
who called you from Walmart. I'm
just curious. Like, like,
department wise, like, that.
We're in the where in the echo
chamber is
that, you know, they were, they
were in more of the mid
executive layer of management,
and it was a brand, um, I'm
still not 100% clear what their
roles were, which is
interesting. They weren't
buyers. Okay, so there's a
disconnect. It signals to me,
there's a major disconnect
between the narrative at the
buyer level, which are the
gatekeepers of the American
retail system, and what's
happening up in the executive
and middle management level,
where they're like, Wait, why
aren't we doing this? Why aren't
we working with brands that are
doing, you know, working with
farmers that are growing these
foods. And again. It just is
reflective of an overly
consolidated, hierarchical
system that controls our food
system that doesn't respond to
consumer pressure and
environmental pressure and
nutritional pressure as quickly
as it probably should.
Yeah. Well, I think that's
really interesting.
Isn't that fascinating? I know I
was like, you know, I, I'd love
to talk to Whole Foods, um,
executive leadership about that
someday, because I, you know,
not to be rude. I'd like to take
them to task on it, right,
right? Well, I think that. But
we just like, I always go back
to who's like, again, if farmers
are only compensated on yield,
no, but it's also, but it's also
like, I know, but it's also
like, I think there's so much
fatigue in so many ways because
legislate like, there's so many
regulatory changes that have
happened over the Last 10 to 15
so, like, the baby boomer
farmers are exhausted, like,
exhausted. They're like, I just
can't like, this is all just
become like, it feels like,
whack a mole a little bit. I
feel like they've lost hope in
change.
I mean, I'm, I'm like, related
to a lot of those kind of
people, right? Um, and so, like,
I should be careful. Like, how
much I talk about it honestly at
home, because, like, I It's
like, you kind of, like, respect
the hard, mean, it's been like,
you know, 50 years of like, the
grind.
Farmers, no food gets that, that
farming is more like it's like,
in a way, it should be treated
more like a utility, like health
care or electricity or municipal
water and roads like it is
something that is essential to
the fabric of our national
security and our optimal opera
up, you know, operating systems
as a nation in our GDP, but We
treat it as like just this kind
of extraction pool, and
unfortunately, by treating it as
just an extraction pool, we're
setting it up to be undervalued,
demoralized and going extinct,
which is exactly what we're
seeing given the fact that that
you know, average age of farmers
in America is like 58 to 62 with
No succession plan, as you said,
because they're not economically
viable, and that is a national
security issue, and I cannot
believe we're not treating it as
such. That's, well,
you know, there's, I really
follow closely what Beth Ford,
the CEO of Land O Lakes, the Big
Co Op, kind of, some of her
moves, that is often what she
that is her talk main talking.
That's, I mean, her stump
speech. But like that is, like
food security is national.
National security is what she
continues to preach on. And I
think there's definitely
something there. Maybe I could
have her on
the show someday. She's amazing.
We know her. I
would listen to that. I do not
know her. I have friends that
know her. But no, she is. She's
just an amazing game changer for
them.
That is cool. It's just there's
so many layers. But honestly,
your work, Allie, and you know
where you sit in the position of
brand development, messaging,
marketing, advertising is
something that is actually
incredibly influential right
now, and especially, I think,
where we're at right now, just
culturally, there's this shift
in, like, the trust level of
marketing advertising, access to
information, etc. Like, what do
you think that your role is in
this marketing capacity to help
shape the future you want to see
for the farming community
and the food system?
I think the pivotal role that
Noble's playing, that I'm really
proud of, is providing more
access to information about
consumer insights to farmers,
particularly farmers who are row
cropping, so they can make
change, they can quickly pivot
based on because there's, it's
open, it's open, you know, it's
open, like, land versus
permanent crops, like, like
vines and trees and whatnot.
Like, obviously, we can't pivot
quickly on that those are like
20 to 30 year investments, but I
think that having more insights,
and I'm even seeing like how and
that that comes from pretty
progressive grower, packer,
shippers, providing information,
working with their retailers
under State, sharing out
informations on commodity
pricing and all like, whatever
that is. I think that's like a
place that we can really play a
part in. And I love doing. I do
think also just we champion hero
food ingredients. So if, excuse
me, if a, if a food product.
Project is three or less, like
food ingredients. They are
perfect, noble West potential
customer, because how the food
is grown, how it was processed
by whom, and with what's with,
with, with whatever kind of
value system that they're
utilizing. That is a place where
I think that we could really
tell that story. And then also
just really progressive, like
creative, that's the other thing
is, like, really creative,
aggressive, audacious, beautiful
artwork, because that is
something that has not typically
been in the ag industry, right?
And then really sophisticated
media planning. And I just like,
It still blows my mind that
especially seasonal crops, like
the perishables, I just that
there are not better campaigns
around the seasonality, and
literally, like, blows my mind,
and that's something I would
just like to see change. Like,
there should be no question that
an average consumer who is like
going to the grocery store that
is like middle like, I just want
to say like middle class, right,
like, just the normal folk,
right? They should know when the
start and stop of the California
chariot season is, and they
should be running to the grocery
store between, like the middle
of the beginning of April to
like the end of May, because
they are getting local, amazing
cherries, right? There should be
no question. It's a whole
different experience. And if
that was the case, I think sugar
consumption would go down so
many things right? And then it's
like, and then comes like June
and like, the average consumer
should know that now it is
Washington cherry season. And
then once we get through the
middle or beginning of August,
cherry season is now over. So
now we need to think about what
fruits and veggies do we eat in
the fall, you know? And that is
a thing where I just feel like
it's so critical that that is
really highly and I just think
the assumption that, like people
know, is part of it, and that is
where I think, like seasonal and
like creative campaigns around
food, to highlight that is so
critical. Let's like, make it
more fun. Like, there's a reason
why. Like, sugar cereal is fun.
The advertising is fun. They
make it fun to eat. I mean, I
mean, you know, we both have
kids like, Oh my God. My kids
are like, Can I get a treat? We
want to treat cereal. Can we get
a treat cereal? And it's like,
you know, and now I, like, break
down in the summer. I'm like,
Okay, you can have summer cereal
because there's, like, sugar
and, like, at least, I know, you
know, crashing in the middle of
the
school day. But, like, so for
parents in that way, but I
it is so and it is Jody. It is
so hard, but that's where it's
like, it's not highlighted.
There is a brand that I just
everybody should follow, because
how they're approaching it is in
and it's because they are not
local grower, packer, shippers.
Frankly, they are. They're using
outsourced marketing with really
sophisticated agencies. But sumo
citrus, it's a very expensive
piece of citrus. It's a six like
Joanie, it's a $6 orange. Let's
be real.
I've been watching that, and
it's been trending. It
is trending is because they
really lean and it is out. The
other thing is, it's outside.
It's outside thinkers who are
driving these campaigns. It is
not coming from the inside outs
or from the outside in, which is
how I staff noble West, frankly,
like the majority of my team,
not everybody, but the majority
of my team has come from the
entertainment industry, because
I want outside thinking, right?
Don't like I, I'm, I think I
just know that I am not your
average gal, right, like most
people. Well, yeah, but I mean,
like, you know, I grew up in the
farm, and then I left and went
to New York City for 15 years
and chose to come back because I
wanted to bring all my skills to
this industry. That's not
normal, right? So, but that's
where, like, we've brought so
many like, that's where, like,
the creative team is, like,
lives in LA and is super
creative. But that takes, it's
going to take that outside
thinking in order to make
changes on the inside of the ag
industry. I
totally agree with you, because
I feel like if you've grown up
in that it you don't see that
sexiness, like it just, it's
like it's part of your
seasonality, or it's part of
your job, or it's, it's and if
you're really looking to
differentiate and to bring in
more of that sexy I can hear
that typing Allie was super
loud. So if you're looking to
like really differentiate and
make something super sexy, it's
it's amazing what bringing
somebody from the outside can
do, because it helps you see
what's special in it. And I
remember. Like, I grew up in
Western Oregon, we had kind of
a, you know, not a subsistence
lifestyle, but, I mean, we
literally lived on salmon we
caught ourselves and venison we
harvested ourselves. We had
cattle. So beef was grown on our
farm. We had chickens, we had
eggs like, you know, like we'd
can our own green beans, we'd
freeze our own corn, like that
was just part of our life, and
it was a lot of work. So we
hated it. When we were kids, we
were like, oh my god, this is
like, slave labor. Like, we were
like, This is not cool. Like, we
can't go do the things with the
other kids, because we're like,
busy weeding the garden and
canning. But when our friends
would come over and they would
sit down, and my mom would serve
them, like, green beans, for
example, fresh cut, frozen sweet
corn that we had frozen
ourselves and it was grown in
our garden, they would like rant
and rave about how amazing the
corn was. It's corn. I mean,
it's corn, like, there's corn,
is corn, but it was like that
little kid, you know, that's
like, that it's got the juice,
like, he goes crazy over the
corn. It's amazing how seeing
the response from somebody from
the outside taste something for
the first time, it inspires you
to actually rediscover why it's
amazing and special. You know,
like, we would be like, salmon
again. Are you kidding? Like, if
I king salmon again, I'm gonna
be angry. Can we just have
burgers at McDonald's,
like all the other you know what
I mean, when, like, freshpacking
Salmon.
I can't believe we were like,
uh, salmon again, you know? But
right? It's kind of funny. And
when we lived in Alaska, it was
the same way, when you invite
people over for dinner in
Alaska, they're like, as long as
you promise you're not serving
salmon or halibut, we'll be
there. Because it's like, you
just get you get used to it. But
again, I think Alaskan salmon,
there's a lot we can learn from
Alaskan salmon and how it
differentiated itself. And look
at the Copper River fishing
fleet and how they
differentiated Copper River
salmon against other fisheries
like Bristol Bay, and they have
effectively captured not only a
premium, but like a FOMO
phenomenon, where everyone lines
up and waits for the very first
Copper River salmon openers to
bring in the fish to the Port of
Seattle. And that is effective
marketing. And when I lived in
Cordova in the early 2000s I got
to spend a lot of time with
people who were developing the
marketing around that Copper
River salmon phenomenon. And it
reminded me of what I'd heard
growing up on the Oregon coast
with the Tillamook folks. I grew
up with the Tillamook kids and
the Tillamook farmers and
dairymen, and in the 80s, that
was a very tough time, timber,
fishing and farming collapsed in
our communities all in the same
decade. It was a decimated us
economically. And Tillamook was
really smart, because they said,
look, we've got a really special
thing going here. We've never
allowed antibiotics in our milk
because we use a special, you
know, culture for our cheese,
and we've always tested for
that, but we never talked about
it. You know, everyone's had
these quality standards, but we
never talked about it, because
it was just what we did. And
somebody really smart, and I'd
like to find out who, and shake
their hand, they have turned
Tillamook into a Goliath in our
in, you know, regionally, that
it still operates at a unit
economic efficiency. I still
know a lot of the dairymen. I
mean, they're, you know, my
friends and family, dairy
people, yeah, dairy people. I
mean, they're, they call
themselves the dairy men, even
when they're women, like, it's
old school Oregon, you know,
just like the Dory men are the
dorymen, even though a lot of
them are Dory women that go out
and fish, um, it's just it's so
old school and I, and I love
that old school because I'm from
it. But you know, when I think
about how they successfully made
what they did sexy, it changed
the whole market. It actually
gave them a competitive
advantage that other people
couldn't compete against, and it
saved them from obsolescence.
And the amazing thing is, they
grouped together. They like
aggregated. They created a
collaborative experience under
that brand banner. Well, also
that
they they shared resources. In
this case, you shared, like
commodity marketing, okay, but I
think that shoni, you bring up
the point of something that I've
been really kind of noodling on,
which is, do we give farmers the
benefit of the doubt that they
are doing a good job? Or we do?
We just assume that they're not?
I think, I think the consumer
assumes that they're not. Yeah,
and it's really an incredible
thing to be able to elevate what
they're doing, right? Because
they're doing so many great
things, it just never gets told.
The story never gets told.
And I'm going to tell you why,
because real, like legitimate,
like traditional farmers, they
are going into farming because
they are quiet, they are
hardworking. They don't, they
don't need, like, they're not
looking for accolades. Like,
that is a traditional under the
radar farmer, and there are some
exceptions. And like, Thank
goodness for those exceptions.
Like, you know, like a banina
Montes from Burroughs family
farm. Thank goodness for her.
Like, she is championing. I get,
like, but she, but, like,
a banina is like, she's
naturally has that affinity,
like,
working on this almond this
morning.
This is an amazing go to the
farm day, if you ever can, it's
amazing. And then you can just
stay at my house So, but, like,
that's like a different that's
like a different experience,
right? Like, you have somebody
who has a natural affinity to
tell a story and it feels
comfortable communicating in
that that is her, but then
that's not everybody in her
family. That's what they are. So
blessed in that way. Now most,
if not all, farmers are just
like, I just want to grow the
food. I went into farming
because I want to work hard. I
want to work the land. I mean,
like, my husband, literally, he
could go, he his best week would
be if nobody called him on the
phone, and he could just work
totally, yeah. I mean, like,
it's just, I'm just gonna weld
and I'm going to grow things,
and I'm going to check the
water, I'm going to get the
indication, and I am just going
to do my thing with you guys,
and we're going to just have a
great week. First, you know, he
doesn't want to talk to a
reporter,
yeah, take pictures. It's so
true. And you know that
underpinning of this exact thing
you're talking about is its
culture, and I think it's where
there's a huge opportunity to
shift the paradigm. And one of
the things that we've been
working on in the snacktivist
camp is with a business model
that we're partnering with at
scale, value chain, you know,
processing people. If we
challenge brands they're doing
really high quality procurement.
They're working with farmers and
farm, you know, commodities,
crops, ingredients that are
better and we challenge to get
their marketing departments
involved with procurement. Like,
those are the things you have to
be like. They're blind spots
that could be a major problem.
You know what I mean? Like as we
really work to kind of dig, dig,
dig and find new ways. Like, I
don't like anything that
restricts free markets, to be
honest. That's my personal
political belief. I am a fan of
distributed, accessible free
markets, and I don't see enough
of that in agriculture, you
know, I mean, and especially in
the big row cropping worlds, I
think it's better in specialty
crops, like, there's a lot more
access, but, yeah, like, but,
you know, when you're dealing
there's
more it's because you don't need
big meals. That's the other part
of it. You pick the
peaches and you put them in a
box and they go to market. You
know?
Well, it's not quite that
simple. What videos to prove,
videos, videos to prove that
middle they don't have to be
clean, they don't have to be
baked,
nope, nope, nope, nope. That's
not all true. If a crop is field
packed, then it can be field
packed, and then go straight to
market. So like in my family
business now, all of the melons
that are grown are actually
field pack boxes. Go to the
field. They are hand packed, and
then they go to and then they're
sold directly. They go to get
chilled in the in the in the
cold, in the cold storage, and
then they go to get shipped from
a shipping dunk, but in not, I
don't even want to say the olden
days, because, like, when I was
a child, so like, 25 years even,
like 20 years ago, yeah, 20
years ago, the melons were pet,
weren't picked, and they were
loaded in trailers, and then
They went to the package that
they were washed, they were
bathed, like they were dried, or
like they were tried, and then
they were packed in a package.
So because I worked in the bin,
I worked at the package, yeah,
15 years of my childhood. So all
the jobs, all the jobs, except
for packing. So, yeah, but it
can
be consumed without that wheat.
Can't dare, I mean, like, well,
that's what I'm saying.
That's what I'm saying. Your
average grower does not have
what, $25 million to build like
a mill, no, and they're not
gonna, it's just that. But
that's, again, why Co Op
started. That's why, like,
that's why mills are getting
bigger. That's why the little
guys are getting squeezed out.
And that's just how it's going.
I
know, isn't it wild? So we're
gonna have to do a part two to
keep unpacking this. And I know
you and I need to just get
together and put our heads
together as we're, you know,
like, like, snack device
considers itself to be an
innovation company. So we're
like, let's try this. Let's,
let's see if this works. We have
the beauty of being smaller, so
we can try things and actually
say, honestly, we're going to
try this and see if it works.
And then have that feedback loop
to the farmers so that we're
like. Farmers. Did this work out
well for you or not Co Op that
we're that we partner with Co
Op? Did this work well for you
guys or not? I can't store
millions of pounds of stuff, but
they can, but they don't
necessarily have access to the
brands that want differentiated,
you know, ingredients. So like,
there's some collaborative
models that are coming along
that I think have great power to
help preserve that into, you
know, IP story, that humanized
story and help us deliver higher
quality foods to the market with
story. But we need storytellers.
We need the noble Wests of the
world. We need the alleys that
can help us understand how to
tell a provocative story that's
meaningful to modern consumers.
So I'm so
happy though, there's the story,
there's the creative, but
there's also the media planning,
there's also the advertising, my
gosh, and that's a science that
is, that's a whole nother thing
we need to talk about. And that
is way, that's where that is,
like, the most absolutely
critical
part of it. Know what? We should
literally just do a session just
on that. And honestly, I don't
know much about that, because
I've never had the budgets to
participate in those realms,
like the advertising and paid
media realms, and I would love
to get educated on how I know
it's technical. I know it's
actually a science and an art at
the same time. Yeah, I would
love for you to educate me and
our listeners on, like, really
what that represents and how
powerful that is for the food
system,
absolutely.
So we'll do that next time. Ali,
absolutely, who want to get in
touch with you and follow your
work? Where? How do they do
that? Where
do they go? You could go to we
are noblewest.com and drop an
email in the comments. You also
could find me on LinkedIn. I
spent quite a bit of time there,
and I'm Allie Cox, a, l, I, C,
O,
X, awesome. We will drop those
in the show notes. And I this is
a fun conversation, because,
again, we're just going there.
We're pushing those boundaries
where we're brainstorming.
Heaven forbid I love that we
don't. We need more of that in
America today. So free thinking,
Yeah, and just going for it. And
so to our listeners, if you
loved these kind of
conversations, you loved this
conversation, please share with
your network. And that's how
podcasts get out there into the
world, and thank you so much for
listening today, and we'll see
you next time this
episode of the regenerative by
design podcast is brought to you
by snacktivist nation elevating
climate smart crops and
regenerative supply chains
through innovative products and
transparent market development.
Thank you for joining me on the
regenerative by design podcast,
please take a moment to review
our channel on your favorite
podcasting service and share
this session with your friends
and colleagues via LinkedIn,
Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or
wherever you connect with your
community.
You.