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We created Juicy Bits because we wanted to continue the conversations that we start out on the trail and on the chair lift. Hosted by our CEO Jen Gurecki and Ambassador Jillian Raymond, they talk candidly about everything from dude soup, to sex, to politics, to equity in the outdoors. We occasionally (read: frequently) drop F-bombs, interview some of the most interesting people in the outdoors and beyond, and say things that many of us think but don’t feel comfortable saying out loud. If you are easily offended or looking for something that is G Rated, this is not the podcast for you. But if you love truth-telling and irreverence, get ready to laugh, cry, and maybe pee your pants a little bit.
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Hello and welcome. I'm Jillian Raymond, the co-creator of Juicy Bits and a Coalition Snow Ambassador.
And I'm Jen Garecki, your co-host and the CEO of Coalition Snow.
For those of you who are new, get ready to laugh, cry, and maybe pee or pants a little.
Juicy Bits is about taking the conversations that we start on the chairlift and at the trailhead,
and bringing them to you to explore alternative narratives that challenge the status quo,
about what it means to be a modern woman in the outdoors.
Grab your helmet because sometimes it's a bumpy ride.
FYI friends, this podcast is from mature audiences, so you've been warned.
Let's get to work and juice the patriarchy.
Hey, good morning, Jen. Good to see you.
Good to see you too.
Nice to be recording on this snowy morning.
I think we both got out to slash a little bit of fresh, so that's always something to celebrate.
Yeah, today was day one for me.
It was a surprise day one woke up 10 inches and I was like, oh, it's time to, it's winters here.
Go do the thing that you love to do.
So I hustled out of my house and made it happen and realized we need so much more snow.
Now I'm back here on my couch recording with you.
Awesome. I'll have to say if you need some tips and tricks on getting ready for winter,
I would encourage going back to a few steps to get ready for winter,
that country beta series put on by coalition, our juicy bits, episodes and getting ready for winter, everything for your, you know, cute helmet strands to the
$20 you find in your jacket, pop it from last year or the way we're doing that. Yeah, like in October, I do get a really nice lip gloss at far out and the little lip scrub isn't it?
Yes, well, super nice super nice. It was cute because Mike picked them out because she thought they were so cute and I was like, no, no, no, these are much more like grown up adulty products because you
use smash things and lose things and these are like my products for mommy. So yeah, you're going to spend that $20 at far out for our local listeners.
All right, where are we? Oh, this is what I wanted to actually talk to about. I had some questions for you, but first I want to set a little context for listeners if they have not yet found your
redefining radical pieces on sub stack. I know you've been sharing about them through Instagram. I think we talked a little bit about them early season. So why don't you give a little bit about that and then I'll go into my questions because the last two weeks really had, there were some themes there that I want to dig a little deeper with you on.
Yeah, so I, I consider myself a writer.
I have been working on a book and by working, I mean, occasionally writing things. I have the absolute privilege and pleasure to be in writing group with Mernovalario and Rebecca Rush, which is wonderful.
And we, I've been working, so I've been working on developing my writing and I thought that one thing that I should do is have a formal writing practice where I'm held accountable by something that's outside of work, right.
So I had this goal of starting my own newsletter, which I did when I was in law, this past summer. And I call it redefining radical and it's all about sort of like pushing the boundaries and living life on our own terms, both in business and beyond.
And so I think about one so week, that's the accountability part is that I have people who subscribe to it and I make sure I send it out once a week. And what I love about it is that while I might be writing about like about my career or about work, I don't have to do it through the lens of, oh, what's the thing we need to discuss this week at Coalition Snow, is there like an event or promotion, like it really just gets to be my writing.
And here we are in December and I've been publishing it every week and it's really fun and sometimes very hard because I don't.
If I'm very tired, it's hard to write something creative or be creative and come up with an idea, but the last few weeks, I've been writing a lot about what it means to be a small business owner, particularly in this in another very, very challenging time.
Which no one's calling every session, but it's absolutely economy is absolutely fucked.
And it's very, it's very difficult to be running a business right now. So I've just been writing a lot about that the past. I'd say month.
I feel like your creative, you know, your creative brain probably doesn't, doesn't just exist right when you're sitting and writing. It's like it happens to you when you're like, maybe on your yoga mat or like you're out in the mountains or you're out on your bike.
And so I imagine there's so much that goes into these pieces before you actually like sit down to put the words together.
But there was a question I had for you from a few weeks ago that you were writing about failure. And I can really relate to this opening part you put where you're really saying that you fail every day in one way or another.
And I think a lot of people can relate to that, whether it's like in your job, your relationships, you know, I think of it as a parent where I'm like, OK, I like literally, am I fucking up my kid today? Am I being a good mom?
I'm a terrible partner like so that concept, I think is really relatable for people. But what I also feel like it puts pressure on it in your situation is the failure that relates when other people are counting on you for livelihood.
So yes, you talk, you spoke about failing in adulting relationships and even business, which I think is really vulnerable to share.
Then you talk about each one of these failures leading to something positive. What I'm curious about is some of the muck and the fucked up mess and the head space for someone who myself is this kind of an overthinker that gets you from that place of failure right to that point of positivity.
If that means that you know, like process kind of looks and feels like because I think we could all use a little more clarity on that.
Yeah, that's a good question. So I off the top of my head, I feel like there's there's two reasons.
Number one, this is what I do. If I can't figure out how to do it, then then and by this is what I do, it's like I, I run my own business, I write, you know, that will, that could always shift and look a little bit different.
But I'm not going to completely reinvent myself at 46, nor do I want to like I like my life. I like what I'm going on.
And so part of working through feeling like a failure and actually failing is that I have to do this again tomorrow.
There is no option, right? Like there's, there's no partner in my home to pay my rent. There's no trust fund. There's no, you know, stocks and bonds and crypto.
Like this is, this is it. I have to make it work one way or another. And so I think that there is that realism of if you wallow in your despair too much.
You don't move forward and you don't do the things that you need to do. So there's a, there's sort of like an, I wouldn't say an urgency because I try not to be like hectic about things, but there's a necessity to be able to move, to move through it.
And then I think the other big thing is that I've been doing all this for so long that I think I'm just used to it. Like maybe I'm like, like totally beat down and I'm like, okay, this is what we do now.
Or, you know, like, I, but I have, I mean, I can think back to feeling like I wasn't doing well with coalition or with Zawadisha, like a decade ago.
And feeling like, oh my god, is this it? Everything's going to be over. And now, probably because I've been doing all this for more than a decade, I know, I feel like I know a lot of things that I need to do.
And they might be really difficult. But I know what to do. And I, I don't feel destitute in it.
And so, yeah, I'm just, I'm just used to feeling things that don't feel good and recognizing that that's not the end of the world is actually part of life.
And I am very grateful for my mental health and that I am, you know, I, I am not immobilized by my fear or the anxiety that I might have.
And that definitely, like, I know that a lot of people, no, a lot of people, but many, many people, plenty of people do have mental health issues that really exacerbate those feelings.
And I, I don't, so I feel quite, quite fortunate about that. But yeah, I don't, I don't have a choice. I've been doing this for a really long time. So I'm used to it. I'm like, okay, cool.
Great. Fuck. All right. And I think also, you know, part of the first two, part of, um, recognizing that you need to carry on the next day and part of feeling comfortable with it is also just accepting the learning that comes with it.
And saying, like, okay, well, I didn't do this today the way that I wanted to do it or this didn't, the end result wasn't where I wanted it to be.
What can I learn from that and try to do it differently? And that's something that I spend a lot of time thinking about, rather than beating myself up.
I'll just think, like, okay, well, what, what can I learn from this? So I don't do this shit again. And sometimes I do it again. And sometimes I don't.
And it depends. Yeah. I think that is, that is life, right? What we're, if we were actually all like fully evolved having learned from the stupid shit that we do or the things that we know that don't serve us.
I feel like that's part of the practice, whether it's meditation or the time on our mat.
I want to go back to something you said, which I really, I think we'll also resonate. I know it resonates with me.
How you said, I won't allow myself to wallow for too long. I think it allows and is that invitation that it is okay to acknowledge when you're absolutely pissed or your absolute stress or your fucking annoyed that something just imploded and then that that that trick is is to not to sit and faster in it.
And I appreciate how you brought up, you know, some humans, it's just, it's not, you know, it's, it's, it's just something that they are themselves grappling with that they can be really paralyzing versus those those moments when we're like, what do I do now? Right? What are, what are those next steps?
And I do wish for you, Jen. This goes back to a conversation we had years ago when people were just like, oh, there's Grekkie like gall of dancing around, you know, I wish for those gall of dancing days to come in your future.
But I also wish for those days, you know, I work in a very dysfunctional profession. I think education has normalized dysfunction for, you know, for decades and decades and decades and decades and one of the pieces I really value that I found myself in in my current role.
Is I work with a very small team, a very focused team, a dedicated team, which I could think is analogous to the team at coalition that you have where we are able to problem solve, get shit done, acknowledge what is really fucked up and actually into mix it with that said, the larger system can be so, so dysfunction so so much dysfunction.
So here you are operating in this, you know, economy that the inflation is a fucking bitch right now. I can't even believe what like organic rock a leanie costs like you're just like how do I still put gas in my car, pay all these bills and then, you know, hopefully have money to go by amazing skis it far out.
So you're battling that when I think of what also coalitions been put through in drought years, fucking pandemic, small business, the normalization of that your time is going to come it's coming.
We will fucking say great. When I wish that for you and think because I think a lot of times we've had to normalize dysfunction right so I think that you can actually name it and recognize it and be like alright, it's going to like scream fuck in my apartment.
I actually was funny this morning I had a total fuck all moment and I was on the chair by myself so I could just like scream it and it felt so fucking good.
But back to can I move I had two more questions for you I think we can do it.
So when you were talking about the idea of failure right and then I.
One of them led to something positive and you talked about engaging in difficult conversations.
Now, we don't need we don't need to know all the details, but I want to know the or you can go is you know as juicy as you want with this, but I think difficult conversations.
And what happened for people on the daily and some of us can get you know intimidated out of them or some of us can be great.
You know leaders in facilitating them, but give us a little bit around what a difficult conversation might look like for you maybe a start to end or like your top two take homes of like don't fucking do this because this doesn't work.
Well, it's quite some I'm looking at I'm looking at what I wrote and you know I bright about that I engage in difficult conversations and like some I felt really good.
And another one I didn't feel good about the one that I didn't feel good about I continue to make that mistake and not feel good about it and surprise surprise that's it.
You know, a former romantic relationship that I just can't seem to like ever get those conversations correct and I wish that the loose ends would be tied up, but they're not, which is how I end up engaging in conversation.
So I have not learned my lesson on that one.
But the difficult conversation that I wrote about well I didn't write about it. I just said that it was long overdue.
It was actually with somebody who I for many years have sort of worked tangentially tangentially tangentially tangentially.
With so.
And the relationship has always been a bit stressed and not even so much stress because of the interaction I've had with that person but because of their business partner in my relationship with that person over many years and many situations became stream and how that impact, you know how that.
And what I've impacted this other person who I work with a lot more now. And what had happened is I think we both just decided.
Because we have to work together. Nobody wants to have to work together in an uncomfortable or a dysfunctional or like a hectic environment.
This person and I both we don't really like we don't try to level it up right like we're like okay we know that these things have existed but let's work together.
But we'd never really talked about the elephant in the room.
Until one night, a few bottles of wine might have been open. So we had to talk about something.
And we were pouring wine and then there was a lot of wine.
And I had a bit of a bit hung over the next day but I did wake up and I was like that was 100% worth it because the conversations that we needed to have we actually we actually had and this other person felt safe enough to come to me and say like well what about this and this and this.
I heard this and this and this about you and this is what happened and then I was able to you know share how I felt about it and it just led to a lot of understanding.
And then our relationship has grown is an incredibly positive because we addressed the elephant in the room that neither one of us wanted to deal with for so long.
And so what I learned from that is maybe don't let those things sit for so long and maybe try to have the courage that you need to have to go to people and it was a really it was not a stressful conversation.
And it wasn't this big arc of it you know being you know getting quite difficult and then coming like it wasn't we didn't argue within exchange words we just had a conversation but it was you know we're talking about years of things that we thought about the other person or the other person's business.
And so that felt really good and it was like a good reminder to me that I can have difficult conversations with people in a really like positive and nurturing way and I think that that was quite surprising to this other person.
I mean I have a reputation yeah but I'm not a monster you know I'm actually like quite a reasonable and caring person.
Just because I'm outspoken and I don't take shit doesn't mean that I like run around and like hammer people you know so but it was it was really good so that was that was like one of a few difficult conversations that I've that I've been having that have just just shown me that like difficult like having difficult conversations.
Having difficult conversations are necessary and I think so often we pull away from them rather than having them because we want to remove ourselves from discomfort but we lose so much we miss out on so much by not acknowledging that discomfort is a part of daily life and that's something that we need to come to terms with and we need to get used to it and it's really about how we choose to deal with it versus trying to not have discomfort in our lives.
That's been I think a big a big thing for me you will have discomfort in your life every day how do you choose to deal with it rather than trying to avoid discomfort in your life.
I think the idea of avoiding of like it you know indefinitely is really dangerous but I do think sometimes at healthy amount of time that can pass can be really valuable and another thing that I love which it kind of makes me.
Think of it in the example you shared and this is not my saying and I can't remember where I found it from but it's it literally gets me through the day now.
It's this idea that our thoughts are real but they're not always true right and what we do our own brains and our own heads like you were saying what you and this other person maybe thought about one another thought about the business.
We can carry that with us sometimes in a way that we are literally making up our own shit in our head that's not 100% and what a concept I would I have a colleague who we worked in a challenging department a few years ago before the lockdown.
In education and we had like a path it was like we will take that 15 seconds of discomfort to speak out in our meeting because we know it's going to save us like hours and hours later.
So again to your point of that discomfort sometimes it is that like no I won't be intimidated in this moment no I won't let this statement go you know un-unresponded to and then doing it in the way where we were like oh my god maybe that actually is going to have everybody feel better because I think at the core nobody wants to be
fucking uncomfortable all day nobody wants to feel like shit right nobody wants to feel as though their business relationships are not built on trust and communication I think it's a matter of how we get there so I do think that's time is valuable.
But when the women in particular have been conditioned to keep things comfortable that is that is our role to to to keep the piece to keep things comfortable in the home in in relationships in the in the workplace and when I interact with men professionally or observe them they don't operate from that they they also don't
necessarily operate from a place of purposefully trying to create discomfort but they certainly aren't hung up on every word that comes out of their mouth and how is someone going to feel and obviously we don't want to be you know just because men can do that doesn't mean that we want to do what men can do it's just an observation that they move through the world and in conversation in a very different way and women are conditioned to make things comfortable.
But what happens is the things that need to get said oftentimes don't get said because of that fear of what what will happen what will happen if we speak our truth what will happen if we speak the truth even look at you can look at currently what's happening in Gaza and the number of people who are willing to say the word genocide.
It is actually happening in front of us right now it is you have 15,000 civilians killed half of whom are children with unnecessary force of a government fighting what a terrorist.
It doesn't even it's not even a war the humanitarian crisis is significant it violates all doctrines of war and so there's and there's people who will not say the word genocide because they want they don't want to upset other people.
But what will be lost what will be lost when we don't say the things that are true you know and and we we shouldn't always have to feel like we have to make other people feel okay and feel good that's not our job people have their own feelings that they are responsible for it is not a responsibility to control other people's feelings and the resulting behavior.
We should be able to show up in the world with truth as long as that truth is.
Buied and padded by empathy and kindness you should be able to say what what you need to say and there's there's pretty significant consequences for not.
Yeah I agree and there's definitely consequences for playing with the value of human life and I think that's probably to me one of the most dangerous things from that we're experiencing right now in the lack of of naming what's really happening and understanding that you just you cannot you know you should not be a bunch of power hungry insane people in positions of political leadership playing games with human life and that I think.
Yeah at the core of that is what really.
Kind of drives at home as a part of the insanity in which we're surviving through on the day today which is another reason for the.
Screaming of expletives and the importance to take care of one's mental health and and have a positivity in community right which.
Kind of you speak to here in a really valuable way but the last question I have for you and I'm curious what you think about this in the next piece in the next newsletter and redefining radical you talk it's almost like a success.
I don't want to say into a failure but sort of like a success that can.
Let me ask my question I think you'll see what I mean so you should about the post that resonated really well with people right the post about being a small business.
And like wanting support and you're like here's the people behind this business it might not be what you think.
And you're like this is awesome everybody reposted it they liked it they commented.
But it didn't translate into like come on people by the fucking chair right or where is the money in not like that but you know what I mean and so I feel like there's sometimes that.
That positivity or that feeling of quote unquote success in the inner webs in the social world and what that can be how does that actually translate into the fucking work that needs to be done or for better like people support right.
I don't know if we I don't know if you can tell that I totally got the question yeah I totally get it so.
What Jillian so the first article that Jillian was referring to in my redefining radical newsletter that that it's called is it failure what she's referring to now the post title is slowing down.
And we had posted on both coalition and myself had posted on Instagram the series of slides where I had hand written a note basically the whole point was you know we're feeling tight you're feeling tight too like we this is difficult and.
We understand this and but we're all in this together like support small small businesses like we strategically posted this to Instagram the Monday before black Friday cyber Monday all of that of like support small small businesses if we don't have something that you want or that you need go to another small business.
And you know you you look at the data that comes out of black Friday cyber Monday and retail sales increased by 6% from the year past it was captured primarily Amazon and primarily in beauty products and electronics and so.
We were trying to make this point of like if you want small businesses to exist if you want our business to exist that favorite coffee shop of yours that favorite restaurant any of it you actually have to give them money.
Because that is we have all agreed we have all agreed to play that game the games called capitalism we all have agreed to it and some of us more than others like you know I've agreed to it in the sense that I've started a business but I've started a business that is does it that sort of exists outside of traditional parameters of capitalism which is probably why we never make enough money but.
The post resonated significantly significantly we had like some of the high high a number of likes and shares saves that we've ever seen and yet our sales did not mirror that enthusiasm and one of the things that I struggle with is I have.
I have created a business and and potentially more than one business you could argue that saw it is the same way where.
What people love the most about us isn't necessarily the product that we sell but the message that we send.
And the work that we do and the impact that we make and but at the end of the day like we don't I'm not in a position where I can freely share that message or the company doesn't get to share this message or have this impact or do this work in the industry if we're not able to sell things and and then it you know begs the question of like well is just is this the wrong business should should we stop selling skees and snowboards and do something else and I think those very people who don't buy skees and snowboards.
What actually say no keep making skees and snowboards.
Because that's the interesting thing right like that's what that's the interesting thing and snowspheres like if we made beanies people be like oh fuck whatever beanies lady that's not interesting you know it's because we manufacture a product that women don't normally do because and and that's what's.
That's what's interesting about it but um yeah I don't I don't have the answer I do not know the this is okay listeners this is this is the question if you have insight into this fucking email me okay I think about this all the time think about this all the time I talk to Sarah about this all the time this is not the first time Jillian and I have discussed this we talk about this shit all the time.
How how what is it that we can do to become a financially sustainable business because people don't want to see us go away but yet those very same people who don't want to see us go away do not financially support us at all and there's a there's a discockt there I actually this is fascinating too.
We have you know we send out our emails not my personal email but the you know lady parts and our promotional emails that we send out at coalition our email list has doubled in the past year double like we we do good things like we we set goals and we meet these we meet these goals the way that these email service providers work for businesses now as you can create segments and you can understand people's behavior to send them a better email.
Send them a better email essentially so I can go into clavio which is our email service provider and I can make a segment of people who have opened up an email in the last like 30 days or 90 days and have been to the website but have never purchased anything and I ran I actually did a segment of people who consistently open our emails.
Visit the website but haven't purchased anything in over a year and it's like over 15,000 people so over 15,000 people read my lady parts newsletter every week and there's not a single penny moving through that at all and that's fascinating to me that like I have something interesting and relevant enough for people that they choose to open up.
My email every single week well not every single week but enough right like they're reading lady parts and lady parts and redefining radical or the most similar because it's just like what's in my brain right.
15,000 people and the majority like and there's more people who open it but it's like literally like less than less than a quarter of people who open that email have ever financially supported us.
And that's wild to me that's wild because obviously we create some some value for you right like there's value that's being created.
I don't know I don't know what the.
Humans are not the answer.
Well it's fascinating and it's kind of also complex and a little weird because those same people could be unsubscribing right.
And they're not so that again though there's things that you can kind of measure it against. I know one that I feel like I'm on the coalition naughty list for that I actually was more fascinated to see what was going to happen was I love that you sent out like hey all the all the cyber sales are coming up if you if you don't want those like let us know and I was like this is so fucking thoughtful because like I'm moving into a window where I know I'm going to be off we were you know off the grid for our holiday I wasn't.
You know spending a penny on Friday or Monday just some like family value financial goals that we had said and I was like opt because I get my coalition ones on my multiple emails so it's like I'm going to see what happens to this and then I didn't it was like.
And I was like oh no I was like Chad I did.
How do I send a message to let you know I love you but like I actually like that you're going to not I'm not going to see those emails this week I didn't know that you I didn't know that you opted out just so you know I don't actually I do not I do not have the time nor do I care to go through and be like who like no the point is if you.
I was like no I want to read all the things I want the stuff like I'm going to shop on these days I got my like you know small business you know you have like your values and your plans which actually could speak to what you just did for the big ask for listeners where and how what does that look like right does it come in the form of people are spending less buying less I mean I think of something you're doing with second tracks right now like I have a great pair of SOS is that just went to coalition of pair of NIA days there's also things that you create that are.
Like you create that are like tiered in terms of like meeting people's financial needs and I think that's something they're not all.
There's a lot of you right there's so much so maybe we'll get a little insight to that as our listeners are still with us in this episode understanding all the things are trying to figure out.
Yeah yeah and it is it's what you know like so we sell you know brand new skis and snowboards we sell you skis and snowboards we sell a peril we.
We run group trips I've been putting heaps of stuff from the shop on the website we have coalition clubhouse that you can financially support and that support goes to diverse diversifying the.
Out outdoors the last chunk of money that we raised in the clubhouse we.
I just sent over to NIA Brinkley who's I believe the only level three certified black female snowboarder in the United States she's on our ambassador team I just sent her money.
So she could register for the national brotherhood of skiing some it coming up so like we do these like we have all these different ways.
And now and I think that's one reason why I started my personal newsletter too is people can subscribe people can pay.
And one of those people who's coming to lady parts you know who reads lady parts or listens to this podcast and is like oh I this this provides so much value that there's that it's it's worth you know worth me.
Putting a little money behind it for that reciprocity then like my newsletter exists for that too but I do think one of the biggest issues is.
I don't think people are bad I don't think people don't support us I don't think people are telling us to fuck off I actually don't I don't think it's that at all I think it's that.
Again it's like the conditioning in a capitalist society of what is valuable and what is worth spending money on so we like creative ideas and words and thoughts like aren't just it's why teachers don't get paid enough right.
Well you have these various professions that are some of the most important professions and don't earn as much as as other professions that arguably don't provide the same value to society and I think that you know for me as someone who is a creator and a writer.
If I did something if I sold TVs I'd probably have a lot more people would come by things from me if I sold TV's but I don't you know so I think that I'm serious if I sold some shit you could throw away in two months and come back and buy buy it more.
Yeah so I think yeah that's that's part of it is is what do we value why do we value it what do we what do we think is is worthy of of our support and what do we spend money on without ever considering it you know there's a lot to.
There's a lot to work through with that but we'll see listeners I'm serious I want to hear from you you go back and hit rewind you listen to my ask you reach out to us you know how to find us just send a message it'll eventually get to us.
However you choose to find us on social or on the website it'll get to us and keep that.
And maybe we'll get some good feedback and we can we can talk about that in the next episode I was going to say keep the conversation going and include include our listeners out there.
Greckie always a pleasure to tackle my friends in the world and in our heads and hearts with you and again listeners thank you for your support if you're still with us.
I can't help it I let I feel like.
I want my thank you we know you are Jen Scott likes that's on it.
And the listeners make it to the end of the episode.
Yeah.
All right well.
Okay my friend much love next time.