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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the Grazing
Grass Podcast, Episode 113.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Whenever they're teaching you
something, ask yourself one question.
What else does it do?
Cal: You're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories
of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's episode we have Steve
Kenyon of Greener Pastures
Ranching in Alberta, Kansas, Kansas.
Yeah, no, Canada.
He shares about his journey, his
transition to using other people's
cows and other people's land.
It's a great episode.
And then for the overgrazing
section or aka severe grazing
section, we discuss drone seeding.
So yes, seeding, using a drone.
So, interesting conversation.
For the bonus segment that's over
for Grazing Grass Insiders, we
discuss growing an inch of soil, and
actually how he far surpasses that.
It's a wonderful episode.
I think you'll really enjoy it.
I know I say that every week, but I
really enjoy these conversations, and I
appreciate you coming along to listen.
10 seconds about my farm.
Lambing is slowing down.
The plan right now is that the next
sale is the first week in June.
So any ewes not lambed by then will get
a trip to the sale barn free of charge.
Grass is growing good here.
We've got lots of rain
fescue is headed out.
It always matures so rapidly.
It's like one day I'm like I don't
have enough grass and the next day I'm
like oh it's all maturing too fast.
I'm sure you experienced that as well.
So it's got us thinking about haying
season and how that's going to go.
10 seconds about the podcast.
Uh, it's actually about, actually
about the grazing grass community.
It continues to grow at
a astonishing rate to me.
I appreciate everyone's involvement
in keeping the conversation
civil, discussions productive.
A little debate never hurts.
If you're not a member
there, I suggest you joining.
That's on Facebook,
Grazing Grass Community.
Enough of all that.
Let's talk to Steve.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Steve, we want to
welcome you to the Grazing Grass podcast.
We're excited you're here today.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Thank you very much.
I'm excited too.
I'm looking forward to it.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Steve, to
get started, can you tell us a little
bit about yourself and your operation?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Sure.
My name is Steve Kenyon and we've got a
company called Greener Pastures Ranching
and we are near Busby, Alberta in Canada
and we do a custom grazing operation.
So I actually don't own any cattle and the
land that we graze on, we don't own it.
We lease it all.
So it's a little bit of a
different business structure.
We are 45 minutes outside of the
fifth largest city in Canada.
So agriculture can't pay
for the land values here.
So we have to structure our
business a little differently
to, to make it profitable.
So we've been leasing land
for about 25 years here now.
So
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: That,
that is a different structure
and plan to the way you do that.
I know, had not ever been introduced
to custom grazing under that
pretense until I read what is it,
no risk ranching from Greg Judy.
It just
wasn't something we had discussed
here because my dad and grandparents
had owned land and owned cattle.
And we always thought we went
to, we'd just go broke with
the cattle that we owned.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah it started years ago when I
actually, I owned my own herd of cattle
working off farm long hours, right?
Struggling to make ends meet.
And I actually took the
ranching for profit course.
I decided to sell four cows just to
be able to afford it because we were
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: I
went to the ranching for profit course,
and one of the best moves I ever did.
It was an eye opener when I started
to understand the economics behind it.
And I came home and I did my numbers
because nobody had ever showed me how to
do that before and I had a few, a small
herd of custom cattle because I didn't
have enough animals for my land, right?
At the time, it was basically
grazing for a friend.
I didn't call it custom grazing.
But when I did the numbers, right?
cows were losing money and I couldn't
figure out why it didn't make any sense.
I had really good Conception
rates great calving rates like
we had a hundred and seventeen
percent calving rate or something
that year We had a whole bunch of
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, oh
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
I was bale grazing for
like under a dollar a day.
Like everything was just perfect, right?
You couldn't get it any better.
And when I did the numbers, I was
losing money and I'm like, what?
That makes no sense.
And the reason I was losing money was
because my grazing costs too much.
It made no sense because
it was my grazing.
It was my grass.
How is that?
But when you actually looked at the
numbers, the opportunity cost, because
I could charge this much to my neighbor.
that's what I had to charge my cows
because that's the opportunity cost.
If I got rid of my cows, I could charge
that much and bring in more animals.
So it was my grazing that was
actually making my cows lose money.
Blew me away.
Switched to custom grazing,
started making more money, right?
Less risk, less, no death
loss risk, no market risk.
My only risk is, does my customer pay me?
And in Canada, we actually have
something called the Animal
Keepers Act that protects us.
If a customer doesn't pay me, I can
actually take the animals to auction
and sell them to get my fees, right?
I've never actually had to do it, but
That way.
It's the best insurance
you could ever have.
And I pay no premiums for it.
It's a legislated act.
So it's very low risk, right?
Just Greg Judy's book, right?
Low risk ranching.
And I've been making more
profit than owning my own cows.
So we've been doing that
for, since 2002, 2001, 2002.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: So when you
went to that ranching for profit and you
ran those numbers and you came home and
looked at those numbers, you go through
those numbers so much and you were like,
we got to make this change or did it take
you a little while to really grasp that
change before you jumped in and did it?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
No, it was pretty quick.
It was an aha moment for me.
Like, how come nobody has ever
taught me this before, right?
It is so obvious.
The advantage of a gross margin
analysis now Since then I've learned
it in other places as well, right?
There's other Schools that teach a
very similar thing, but that was the
first one that I took was Ranch for
Profit I mean what it does is allows
you to make decisions easier, right?
When the numbers are sitting right
in front of you saying this is
losing money and this is making money
it's like that's an easy decision.
Whereas you look at your
accountant's books, they come back,
they're all blended together and
you're like I don't know, right?
Let's do this because I like it, right?
We're not making good decisions on the
farm until we break them, break the profit
centers apart and actually do the numbers.
Then we can make good
decisions and easy decisions.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: It takes
that emotional side out of it.
You're not making the decision
while you're looking at your cows.
Yeah.
Let's just talk about, actually,
before we talk about that transition,
let's go back a little bit further.
Did you grow up raising cattle?
Was it something you always
knew you wanted to do?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah, my father was a mixed grain
and cattle operation in Saskatchewan.
Smaller scale, I mean we had maybe a
hundred cows tops, and I don't know,
two, two thousand acres of grain land
maybe, and my dad actually retired
from farming when I was, I think, 13.
So I was just a part of it.
My older brothers were helping on
the farm and I wasn't doing much yet.
We retired and we moved to British
Columbia and was no longer farming.
So when I came out of high school,
I wanted to go back, right?
I wanted to farm, but I didn't
have that much experience cause I
was pretty young when we left the
farm.
So I went to college, bought some
cows, started into it, right?
And it wasn't until I went to the Ranch
for Profit course that it really Opened up
and turned around for me because, owning
those cows, I was just struggling, right?
Oh, my off farm job paycheck was going
to feed them all the time, right?
And I remember Okay, I've got
a little story for you here.
How about this first?
I remember you're back then Struggling
to keep these cows going and I was
working 17 to 18 hours a day in the oil
patch right driving a truck And still
coming home trying to manage this farm.
So I remember I leased a section
of land from my family and it right
in the middle of this section was a
pasture, probably about 50 acres, right?
So I brought these cows home and I
put them out there in the 50 acres.
And then I spent All spring, I went out
and worked all the land around there,
and I seeded, seeded down some crops,
I seeded down some hay, I seeded down
some green feed and then it was growing.
I'm still working, 6 days a week,
17 hours a day type of thing.
Then I the crop grew, we sprayed
some of it, then we hayed some of it.
We hauled those bales in, then we took the
green feed off, hauled those bales in and
then put the cows into the corrals, then
all winter long I would feed them, in the
morning go out and feed them and of course
you need grain for the bulls, right?
So you gotta be out there twice a day
feeding grain, that's what I was taught.
And I realized one morning as I was
feeding the bulls the grain, that
I had just fed them four hours ago.
Because I had no sleep, right?
I'm working 17, 18 hour days
and you're feeding twice a day.
I'm like, I just fed
these guys four hours ago.
Why am I here feeding them again?
And it made no sense.
Okay.
Keep doing it.
The next spring, turn the cows back out
on the pasture, start it all over again.
Right here.
I'm going out there working my tail
off for these cows and I remember that
spring We had to haul the manure out.
Okay time to haul manure broke young guy.
Just barely getting going.
I borrowed a Small dump truck.
It was like a one ton dump
truck a two wheel drive from
my brother's And their bobcat.
Trying to get the manure hauled
out, and this is early July.
Getting out there, trying to dig
up the manure with the bucket,
and of course, there's still ice
underneath some of this manure, right?
Because it hasn't, it's still slippery.
And, but there's mud everywhere,
and we're, I'm trying to load
this truck, and it's hot out.
It was 30, 35 degrees Celsius.
It was pretty hot.
And trying to dump this truck, and of
course, then the pickup truck stuck.
Okay, so now I'm over
there chaining up to it.
Oh, by the way, my girlfriend's
driving the truck for me
because I can't afford help.
Girlfriend's driving the truck.
And She has no air conditioning,
so she's not happy.
Then the truck stuck.
And then of course I'm, my
human resources was not good.
That that very good, that back then.
And now I could get the Bobcat
in there to get it unstuck.
And now the Bobcat stuck.
And I've only got this one day to do this.
Everything's stuck and I can't,
I'm standing on top of this manure
pile, having a temper tantrum.
As my girlfriend is walking
to the house, right?
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh no.
Yes.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
done.
Like I, I lost my cool and I
don't think I was yelling at
her, but I was just, I was mad.
I'm standing on that manure
pile and I turned around and
I looked over at the fence.
Every single one of those
cows was watching me.
And I realized at that moment, That
all summer long, all winter long,
they've been watching me work, right?
I seeded for them, I hayed for them, I
cut for them, I hauled bales, I fed them,
and now I'm hauling manure for them.
And I made a pact right then and there
that I am no longer working for my
cows, they have to work for me, right?
This is just not working.
Ever since then, I've
made them work for me.
They go out and swath graze.
They dig for food.
They go out and forage on their own.
They get their water, right?
They I let them lick snow.
They get their own stuff.
Ever since that day was the last
time I've ever hauled manure.
And that was in 19 98.
Yeah,
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah.
Let them do the work.
Yes.
My story brings up a story that My
grandparents tell all the time, uh,
1950s, they had, they were milking cows,
milking them by hand, and the electric
went out, I forget why, I assume a
storm came through, I'm in Oklahoma,
severe weather happens, and so they
were without power, they started hand
milking partway through milking, grandma
got kicked, and she went to the house.
Now Grandpa continued, he says, and when
he finished, it was time to start again.
He went to town and bought a generator.
But
That, that story, my grandma going to,
going back to the house, she's I'm done.
Not helping anymore.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
I'm done.
I don't blame her, right?
I don't blame her at
all.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah.
Then we, you made this big change
from your cattle to someone else's
cattle, someone else's land.
Talk about just that process
of getting started there.
Did you, for one, was it something
you were knowledgeable about before
you started it or were you like,
this should work, let's go try it?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
I'm going to say it was a relatively
fast compared to most people,
not overnight fast but it was a
relatively fast mindset change.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
too many things that didn't make
sense in agriculture for me.
Like I'm trying to figure this out.
Okay.
I'm a cowman, right?
I'm a cattleman.
I own cows and then I realized that you
know what if I can take care of the grass
Then that takes care of the cattle and
then I started reading the gra Like I
probably got that when I started reading
the Stockman Grass Farmer magazine, right?
And I'm like, okay.
I'm a grass farmer now I don't necessarily
You know, it's not the cows, they're
a tool that I can use to manage the
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Right.
At all.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
then I even took it another step
further, now I gotta manage the soil.
If I can manage the soil, then that
takes care of the grass, and then
the grass takes care of the cattle.
And the cattle take care
of the people, right?
So it's this evolution that I went through
really quickly because I remember being in
that ranching for profit School years ago.
I was the youngest guy
there basically Yeah, 2001.
I took that so I don't know how old
that would make me quite a while ago
and Multiple people came up to me at
the end by the end of that because
I was fairly passionate about what I
was doing back then and some of the
elderly people there that they would
come up to me and they would say you
know what, I just wish I would have
taken this school when I was your age,
right?
You have such a good start ahead
of you and they were right.
They were right.
I was, I remember being in tears there
because I couldn't, feed my family.
I couldn't make ends meet and it
just turned around for me, right?
Yeah, the fact that I
got that kickstart early.
I had some really good
mentors that got me going.
Yeah, I was very fortunate to have the
guidance, maybe it was to go in this
direction and I'm very fortunate for that.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: When you
had your own cows, were you doing
more adaptive grazing or rotational
grazing after you decide your
cows are going to work for you?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yes, definitely.
From the time when I was in the
story where I was hauling manure,
that was in Saskatchewan, and then I
moved up into Alberta here in 1999.
From there I started doing
a rotational grazing.
Pretty intense.
I think my first grazing cell, which
would be a quarter within a year, Maybe
two years, I had it into 21 paddocks,
so even like my first year up there,
I was pretty intense not necessarily
knowing what I was doing 100%, but
doing what my mentors told me to do.
So yeah, I started really
early and fairly intensive.
21 paddocks grazing around
on a quarter section.
Now that quarter, I still have that
quarter today, and it's in four paddocks,
because I have other land with it.
So I was quite aggressive to
begin with, and I've taken
fences out, actually, since then.
But now we have, I think, about
35 paddocks on the whole cell.
So it's still a good, but a
bit, obviously a bigger herd.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: When you started
or made that transition to custom grazing?
Did you go out and find new land or
were you able to use some land that was
already owned by family or something
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
No, it was all new land.
My family's land was actually
back in Saskatchewan.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: That's what
I, I stopped, I wasn't
completely sure there.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
yeah I moved away.
My dad and I didn't
necessarily get along, right?
I started farming with him
and we had totally different
views on what, what's going on.
And the best thing that I
ever did was I left the farm.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Because My dad and my
relationship got way better
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: We
look forward to seeing each other, right?
We only see each other a few times
a year, but when we do it's good.
It was not pretty back then, right?
It just wasn't working out.
I'm grateful that he's there.
He's been there to help me out if
I've ever needed it, but the best
thing I ever did was left the farm.
And that's not for everybody, obviously,
but we, I started up here one of the
so one of the blessings I had in, in my
career was actually the the drought of
2002, because I learned so much during
that it was a very educational time
for me, and then the BSE hit in 2003.
What that did was a whole
bunch of farmers quit.
It didn't really hurt me because I'd
already sold my cows, but farmers quit all
over the place and land became available.
So all of a sudden I'm looking
at, okay can I rent this one?
Can I rent this land?
And I gained quite a bit of land
between 2003 and 2007, right?
I went from having two quarters
of land up to probably 14 or 15.
And and the custom grazing was paying,
and there was a demand for it in Alberta,
which I didn't realize there was before.
Yeah, it grew pretty good until 2007.
2007, there was a big change, though.
The U.
S.
opened up the ethanol market, which all
of a sudden, you take 40 percent of the U.
S.
corn out of the market,
that raises the prices.
And then the prices of wheat and
barley and everything go up as well.
After 2007, it started getting
harder to find land, because the
grain guys were really competitive.
But yeah, that 203 to 207,
I expanded pretty quickly.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: And
you'd mentioned there, you
touched on it just a little bit.
You found there was cattle
for custom grazing available.
You found
a need there.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
yeah, I didn't realize that
before, but as soon as I started
putting the word out people are
like, yeah I'm, we need pasture.
Now, the service that I
created is how do I say this?
The medium-sized farmer.
So the little farmers
were quitting, right?
They were quitting getting out.
The medium-sized farmer was getting
bigger, and what he needed was more help.
He needed help.
So I could, I would find little
pieces of land and put 'em together
and make a bigger pasture, okay.
Where, whereas they don't know
the area, they couldn't find that.
I managed to negotiate
and get land together.
And then what I could do is I offered
to these medium sized farmers that are
getting bigger is I can take 500 head.
For the summer, worry free.
You're done with them.
You don't have to touch them.
It's like having another
employee, but you don't for them.
Their other option would be to find
a little piece of land over here,
and a little piece of land over
there, and a little piece of land
over there, and then send 50 cows
there, and 40 cows there, and 60 cows
there, and not be able to graze them.
Efficiently, right?
Not in a regenerative manner.
And then hire someone to drive
around all summer to basically
take care of these cows, right?
There's no efficiency there.
Whereas I can say, I'll take 500
head and, see you in the fall.
We'll send them
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
And they're like, yes, here you go.
Wonderful.
So that's the service I'm providing
is, getting that land and managing
it in a much more efficient manner.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yes.
And when do you typically take or
when do those animals usually arrive
and when do you ship them back?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah, so we'll start Start grazing usually
around May 15th in our environment.
We're,
what, seven and a half
hours north of the U.
S.
border.
So we're a fair ways up here and
May 15th, we start grazing and
we'll usually graze yearlings till
end of September, early October.
And we can take, bread heifers or cow
calf pairs, depending on the customer.
Some years we take them into November,
December, sometimes even January,
depending on what we can find for
swath grazing or something like that.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
This year, actually, we've
got a year round herd.
And we finished our swath
grazing on March 2nd.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
cows home for March and April and
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: so swath grazing.
Tell me a little bit more about that.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
okay, swath grazing by, definition
would be you would plant a cereal crop.
So normally oats or barley or some
combination and then grow it, let
it get to the I prefer like the
milky stage and then you swath it.
Yeah, then you swath it and then
it, you windrows until winter.
It's just stockpiled out in the field.
And then you can start strip
grazing through it during the
winter and let the cows do the work.
They're, they do all
the harvesting for you.
You just left it in a nice windrow.
The reason for the windrow instead
of leaving it standing cereal
crops can get nitrate poisoning
when the killing frost hits it.
So if you cut it before that
frost hits it, then you don't have
any chance of nitrate poisoning.
It also stockpiles it
better for the deep snow.
If you you Bring all that crop together
and put it in a nice windrow, then
the cows can find it in the snow,
and then once they find it, then they
just keep digging along that swath and
Like we've gone through two feet of
snow and they can still find that swath,
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: oh, okay.
How long so you said you're cutting it
before frost And so you're cutting it in
October and you grazed it through May.
I'm
March.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
so this year's a little bit different.
The crop that we got this year
was actually a, garbage crop.
called it his ugly mess.
So I work, I don't seed
those crops down, right?
That's typically how you do it.
But normally what I do is
I salvage crops, right?
If a grain farmer has a wreck
crop that didn't work, right?
I've been around long enough
now that some of them know that,
hey, We've got a wreck crop.
Let's call Steve.
We can still get something out of this.
So I'll put a fence around it.
Normally they don't have fences.
So I'll slap up a fence in
the fall and then plan out a
strip grazing or something.
But this year's, it was actually,
they seeded it down to alfalfa in
the spring and we had a really dry
spring and it didn't germinate.
And then we got a whole
bunch of rain in June.
And then everything came up, right?
Every volunteer, every weed he
could imagine came up and he
didn't want to spray it cause he
didn't want to kill his alfalfa.
So it turned into an ugly mess.
So he wanted me to bring cows over there.
I'm like in August, I'm like even if
I bring them over there, it's going to
take me two months to get through it.
It's not as if I'm going to be able to
level it and make this ugly mess go away.
Because it was right
by the highway, right?
A hundred thousand vehicles
around, back and forth, right?
He wanted it gone.
So he said, okay, fine, I'll swath it.
So he did.
He swathed it and we went out there
and we thought we'd get a month and
a half, maybe two months out of it.
We actually got three months
out of it this winter.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
yeah.
That's a
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
it was,
yeah, it was better than I thought it was
going to be for the ugly mess that it was.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Nice polyculture though.
I don't mind those.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
don't like polycultures, but I sure do.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: So you did
swath grazing till early March and then
you brought the animals to bale grazing?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yes, you bet.
We had a bale grazing set up, and
actually because of that we have
way too much bale grazing set up.
We've got an extra whole field that
we're not gonna use this winter now.
We'll save it till next winter.
Bale grazing.
We ba we basically set out a whole
bunch of bales out over a paddock.
Usually one of the paddocks
that are, lagging behind,
maybe not producing as much.
And what I'm trying to do is the
number one reason why I bale graze is
to lower my labor and equipment cost.
You do all that work in the fall, you
can get it done a lot quicker, with a
lot less headaches, you're not dealing
with cold, frozen twine or anything
like that, you can get it set up pretty
efficiently in the fall and then all
winter when it's cold either you're
opening gates or you're just moving
a fence and you can save an awful lot
on labored equipment costs that way.
The bonus I get out of that is the water
holding capacity in the pastures later.
Okay a lot of people think that it's
the fertility you get from bale grazing,
and I thought that for years too.
I'm thinking all that manure
and all that hay breaking down.
Yes, that's part of it.
But the big bonus to bale grazing
is the water holding capacity.
I've done it a few times and the drought
of 2021 really it just shone through.
I was, started bale grazing across
a paddock the year before, and then
when we started to calve, because I
don't like bale grazing during calving
because there's a chance that cows
can cast, They'll lay on a, a mound of
hay in the wrong way and can't get up.
So I stopped and start unrolling
bales then, but I went working my way
across this paddock and bale grazing.
And then when we switched to
unrolling so basically we got half
a paddock that was bale grazed,
half of a paddock that was unrolled.
Unroll.
We unrolled bales on, now we unrolled
on it till it was filthy, right?
You didn't wanna unroll another bale there
'cause there was so much manure and urine.
And then we moved on, they
both came out pretty good in
the spring they looked good.
But then when we ran outta water, the
second grazing on that, the drought of
2021, which was a severe drought for us.
The bale grazing was still bright green
in September, two feet tall and right
beside it where we unrolled bales where
we only added fertility basically.
It was brown and gone.
There was nothing left.
So the water holding capacity
created builds a system where
the Microbiology, right?
If you can hold water, you hold
microbiology and then they get
this perpetual fertility for you,
right?
Because if you add fertility it
gets used up and you have to keep
adding fertility Whereas if we build
the system and that's what the bale
grazing does of water holding capacity,
we get this ongoing Fertility.
So yeah, it's a it's an amazing
Transformation to the land
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Is that
happening because you're leaving
more litter with the bells grazing?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: Most
people like to call it waste, but compared
to unrolling, what I see when I see some
waste in the bale grazing is usually stems
right?
The stems of the lower quality of the
plant ends up being left, because they
dug through the, that bale and got all
the leaves, all the high quality stuff.
So they got, all that good stuff.
Whereas if I'm unrolling a bale lots
of times it doesn't unroll right.
Maybe you picked it up backwards or,
it's a little bit stuck together.
And so you unroll a little
bit faster to get it to go.
Guess where all the fine leaves are?
They're flying off in the air or they're
falling down into the soil, like below
the grass, and then the cows can't get it.
So in my opinion, when I'm
bale grazing, the cows get to
eat most of the good stuff.
Whereas if I'm unrolling or especially
if you're using a bale buster, a
lot of the good stuff they don't get
because it's blowing off in the wind
and falling down into the grasses.
Bale grazing, it's usually the stems
or the less palatable stuff that
gets left behind, which is great.
That's water holding capacity for me.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yeah.
You, you mentioned, or you didn't
mention this, I saw this in a video.
You set your bells on their side.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yes the reason I set the bales on
their side, it depends when usually
I set them on their side because
they shed rain better in the fall.
If I've got twine, you can easily pull the
twine out from underneath that bale in the
fall and nothing's frozen down, so you can
cut them, pull the twine off quite easily.
If I'm doing a different style of bale
grazing, where I'm bringing the bales
in the wintertime, now the twines might
be frozen, I put them on their end.
because it's a lot easier to pull
that twine off, walking around the
outside to get it off, bang on the
ice or whatever you need to do.
Not preferred, but if I
have to, then I'll do that.
My risk then is if I put out too many
and the springtime comes, if I've
still got bales out the snow that
accumulates on top of them, if it
warms up and melts, then all that snow
melt goes right down into the bale.
And I've had moldy bales in the spring.
So you gotta be careful.
If you put them on their sides then
it sheds the moisture a lot better.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh
yeah, and you mentioned twine.
Are you seeing a lot of netting twine?
How's the hay wrapped up, up north?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
I really dislike the netting.
There is so much garbage left over.
I know all the hay guys love it.
It's quicker.
It sheds rain better.
It looks pretty because
they color them green.
So the bales look greener, but
man, there is a lot of garbage
when you're left over, right?
I just want to go back to sisal twine,
or I heard somebody coming up with
a edible net wrapping or something.
I'm like, great something, other than,
why are we using so much plastic?
I we were out there pulling
net wrapping off we had 101
bales, I think, in this paddock.
Pulled all the net wrapping off
and we ended up filling a whole
tote bag with garbage out of that.
I'm like, why do we need
this much garbage for this?
We should have something better by now.
I know it's dollars and cents and they
can make it cheaper and it's, faster.
Yeah, just all the garbage.
I just, shake my head is
why we're going this way.
I'd love to go back to Sizzletwine, but
when you buy the hay None of the hay
guys want to use it because it was slow,
and it's more costly, and they got to
jump out of the tractor more often to
change the ball of twine, and there's
just so many excuses why not to use
it, so it's a losing battle, I tell ya.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: everything's
netwrapped here, and yeah, it's
awful, I was driving home from town
earlier, flatbed pickup there, with
just a huge stack of that netwrap
balls there, and I'm just like,
how's that even staying on there more
microplastics into our environment.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
yeah, we got to get something
that's biodegradable, or edible
with minerals in it, how about?
There's a good
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh Yeah,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
We should invent that, you and me,
we're going to patent that, we'll make
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: there we go, yes.
Yeah, with your bell grazing you
set it out there Are you doing
daily moves with that and allotting
them just a certain amount or are
you doing longer periods of time?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: So
with bale grazing you can't do daily moves
because there's not enough bunk space.
The idea behind it is to get enough
space So that everybody has bunk space.
Three days is about a minimum for me
I like five if we're moving across and
it depends on how my labor situation is
if I've got Plenty of time or I've got
someone hired that's there to do it great
I like 5d moves, but depending on the feed
and depending on the situation I have gone
all the way up till to about 30 day moves
We'll turn them into 30 days worth of feed
and then they go through it They pick out
all the good bales first, they get down to
cleaning up the risk is when the bales are
down to that cleaning up point, if you get
a big snowstorm then you get some waste.
But what I normally do is as we're getting
down on the longer graze periods, let's
say we're going to do the 30 day one.
When we get down to like day 20
or day 25, maybe I'll go out.
So now we're, we're down
to the low quality stuff.
They've gone through most of the bales
there, but there's low quality out there.
I'll go out with a high quality bale, an
alfalfa bale or something and unroll it.
to give them that high nutrition, but
I'll unroll it so everybody has bunk space
and then make them go clean up again.
the paddock that we just finished,
what we were doing at the end, we
were unrolling two alfalfa bales and
making them go back and clean up.
Whereas a day's ration for them
would have been five bales.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
get two really high quality ones
every day, and then we'd force
them to go back and clean up.
Yeah, they cleaned up pretty good.
Depends on the quality of the hay.
That was in the bale grazing itself.
I mean my what I'm rolling out is always
good quality stuff I want that's the
supplement to supplement it up But
yeah, depending on the quality of the
hay and the palatability is really
how well they clean up when I'm doing
three to five day rations Then I can
make them clean up pretty good, right?
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah.
Yeah, they clean up pretty good on that
time period so depending if the labor
is worth it for you or not because
the you know move Going to feed cows
once a month is pretty low labor.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
yeah dealing with hay with five
day moves not too bad either.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah, you bet the I Said that the number
one reason why I bale graze is for to
lower my labor and equipment costs So
just to give you an idea of how much that
lowers it the more animals, of course
they divides out better your labor and
equipment, but the Over the years, I've
looked at the government stats on yardage
and equipment costs and things like that.
And the one for yardage that they've
had for years is the act of feeding.
So your tractor and your labor,
fuel and depreciation, all
those things going into it.
The average Alberta yardage cost
over the last 10 years is anywhere
between 70 cents per head per day.
And about a dollar per head per day.
Okay.
So that's not feed, no feed included.
That's just the act of feeding is
anywhere between 70 and a dollar.
Okay.
So when I'm bale grazing, when I
crunch my rough numbers, I'm usually
under 10 cents per head per day.
Sometimes I've been under 5 cents.
So if I'm, let's say it's 70
cents and I'm down to 10 cents,
that's 60 cents difference.
So I could waste, 59 cents worth of
feed and I'd still be further ahead.
compared to,
because that labor and equipment
cost gets so much better.
And then the bonus is all
the water holding capacity
and all the fertility I get.
And that's 10, 15 years worth
of improved pastures out of it.
It's just an absolute no brainer once
you've actually seen it and done it.
And it's just, wow, that's amazing.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh yeah.
And I love to, something you
mentioned there when I asked how
often you were moving them, you
brought up enough bunk space.
And I really hadn't thought about
it from that aspect, but, um,
we do a very loose bell grazing.
I guess it would fit the definition.
We put a set of, we will go out
and we'll feed a whole bunch of hay
in all of our different paddocks.
And we'll put five or six bells in a.
in a pasture, and that'll feed
our cows three to five days.
So that's what we're
going out and doing that.
And then we can just open gates the rest
of the days, which makes it super nice.
But I really hadn't thought about it.
If you're not feeding multiple days
there, you don't have enough bunk space.
And I hadn't really considered it as bunk
space, but you don't have enough bunk
space for them all to eat their fill,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah if I was to go out and feed
daily you would either use a bale
buster or a, unroll your bale so
that you lay it out in a long line
so that everybody has bunk space.
If you were to try bale grazing like
that, you could only get 25 cows I've
got a drone now so I actually counted,
right from above them, you
can get 25 cows around a bale.
But if you don't, if you're only feeding
a day's worth of ration there's a bunch
of cows, those poor doers that are not.
Not at that bale, and they
will end up getting skinny.
So when you're bale grazing, at least
three days gives you, that first two
days, everybody's got bunk space,
everybody's eating well the last
day, everybody's cleaning up, right?
The boss cows don't get too much
and the poor doers get not enough.
So yeah, bunk space is
important when bale grazing.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: I'm a
little surprised that number is
as high Number of cows per bale.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah I did too, but when I took a
drone shot here just last winter I
got the picture and I counted 25 heads
into that bale,
no bale feeder though a bale feeder only
has what, 12, maybe 16 openings, I don't
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah, maybe.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
but yeah, with no bale, bale
feeder, I, I counted 25, it was
pretty tight, it was pretty snug.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, I
imagine so but it's working for him.
Now you mentioned there You have
some year round animals that
you're also you'll be calving.
So you are doing some custom calving too.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yes, it depends.
I don't have that every year.
We had this customer come in a
few years ago I needed some extra
work for a an employee that wanted
to stick around for the winter.
So we brought this herd
in and It's 150 cows.
It's nice because then I get to do
the bale grazing It's extra work,
it's extra time, but I've got a
guy hired to calve them out and
he, he's, he wants the work, right?
He's pretty content to do that.
And yeah, then I get all the
water holding capacity built up
on my land being able to do this.
Yeah I enjoy that.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: When
are you calving in Alberta?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
In Alberta, we like to calve
end of April, early May.
So just as the grass is
turning green we start calving.
I kind of time it with my grazing.
May 15th, the grass is not very
tall, but I want to start grazing.
So I'll, I'd like to have about
half my herd calved out by May 15th.
That way you can pull out those
pairs that are all good and get
them great, get them moving.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
it's not the, it's not the full herd yet.
So grass is short.
We got paddocks that are, this big, but
we only have half the herd in there so
they can stay there for two or three days.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
there's not very much, if I had the whole
herd in there, they'd be out in a day.
So then we can just keep moving in the
rotation, nice and slow, those little
calves, we don't have to go super fast.
And then as we calve more,
we add more pairs to it.
So right, I'll haul another 10 over
there and put them in there or run
them down the alleyway or whatever.
Depends how far away they are.
And then, we'll just keep adding to it.
So as the grass gets taller in each
additional paddock, we're adding
more cattle to it to graze it down.
So it, it's a nice, even graze on
that first rotation because we keep
increasing the number of animals on there.
So it matches your carrying
capacity type of thing, right?
So yeah, I match it with my grazing,
so it makes it a little simpler.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Are you calving
those out on pasture or in a barn?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
On, on a pasture, but we're
feeding them to begin with.
Those, the ones before May 15th, there
we're rotationally abusing some pastures.
We're on one, and it's trying to grow,
but we're also feeding on it like
crazy, unrolling bales, so the manure
and the urine and the litter that
stays there really does it a benefit.
Even though we're technically,
they're overgrazing all those
little green grasses coming up.
And then, as soon as it starts
looking dirty, we move to another one.
And then we move to
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yeah, you'd
Before.
Yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
as soon as it's dirty, we get
those calves moving along.
And then, once grazing starts, we get into
end of May, we're almost done calving,
maybe there's a few stragglers, and by
then I'm like, just kick them all out.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yeah.
Yeah,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
she's this late she's
got to calve on her own.
Yeah.
And we don't do a lot with calving.
Usually it depends on what the
customer wants, but I would
rather do as little as possible.
We drive through them and basically ear
tag and put castration rings on them.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
about it.
Just so that we can,
keep track of who's who.
If you catch them before they're 12
hours old, they're easy to catch.
After that, yeah it's pretty
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh yeah,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
They're fast.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: We have hair
sheep in addition to our cattle and
that's my dilemma with hair sheep.
I don't want to catch them in
those first 12 hours because
bonding is so important to them.
But if I wait past 12
hours, I can't catch them.
So that's a dilemma I have
with the sheep, but that's.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah.
It depends on the customer though, right?
Cause I do have a customer,
they're his animals.
What does
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: right.
Yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
we try and work it out.
The, I had a customer a few years ago.
He said, Nope, don't have them.
Don't do anything.
Just let them, Just let it happen.
If there's a problem, deal with
it, but we don't, we'll tag later.
So it just depends on the customer.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: they need.
Do you see anything changing on
the horizon for you or do you
have a pretty well Set pattern
that you like the way it's going.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
It's getting tougher and tougher
to hold on and keep land.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
yes.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: The
grain industry is very well supported.
We'll say it that way.
And they are aggressive on land.
The price of canola for the last couple
years has gone through the roof and now
a lot of hay fields and a lot of pastures
have been worked up if they could be.
So there's a huge demand for
pasture right now, but there's
also a huge demand for land.
I got landowners raising rent.
I've lost some land because
somebody else offered way more.
So that's the, I'm, I don't know if I'm
going to get pushed out entirely, but
yeah I've shrunk a lot in the last couple
of years just cause the demand of grain.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah, and it's
coming just from the grain farmers demand,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah.
A trickle effect, right?
When all the hay land or a whole bunch
of the hay land gets ripped up and put
into canola, and pastures are getting
ripped up, then there's less hay.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: right?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
less pasture available, so all of a
sudden the cattle guys are bidding
more for pasture because they,
there's very little of it around.
So it's a, not necessarily the
grain guys that are taking the
land, but it's a trickle effect
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404:
Oh, yeah, but it's
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
canola.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: okay.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
And now the price of canola
has actually gone down,
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: but
We still don't have the pasture in the
haylands because it's all been ripped up.
I don't know if it's going to correct
itself over the next couple of years,
but this year there's a huge demand and
there's some guys throwing some awful
lot of money around at some of this land.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yes.
I know that the people really in
farm country, when they talk about
land rent prices, it just baffles me.
It floors me.
I'm in an area where we don't
have too much farming going on.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
yeah, and I'm not going to try
and out, outbid them because, if,
honestly, we've had I don't know
how the grain guys are surviving.
Actually I do know how they are, but
we've had four years in a row where
the grain guys have had terrible crops.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
they've had, we had 2019 and 2020 were
super wet guys were out there pulling
combines with four wheel drive tractors
just to try and get through the mud to
get their crops off I remember it was
so wet, the peas didn't even germinate,
they just rotted in the ground, it was
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: for
one of my neighbors, and then we had 2021
and 2022 that were drought years severe
drought, terrible crops, terrible, but
all these grain farmers are Still gung
ho and going because the everything's,
crop insurance covered everything.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
yeah it's, I couldn't have four years in
a row of bad crops and probably survive
because I don't have that coverage.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
we have a lower risk system where
I don't, I don't have bad crops.
Rarely do I have bad crops.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Very good, Steve.
Steve, it's time we transition to our
overgrazing section where we take a
deeper dive into something you're doing
on your operation to find out more.
And we were discussing this earlier
Jim Garish was on the podcast a
few weeks ago and he's I don't
like the name of this section.
You actually suggested we should call it.
Severe grazing, because, we're spending
more time there, we're going deeper,
but we're not staying too long there.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Exactly.
Yeah, the big definition difference
between overgrazing is when the root
systems of the plant is getting hurt.
Severe grazing, you get on and off quick.
You take it down heavy, but you
haven't hurt the root system.
So there's a trick for you to get that.
Tell Jim you solved it.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: There we go, yes.
Our topic for today is drone seeding.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yes, it's I bought a new toy.
Actually last,
two years ago, I bought a small drone.
Just to get the hang of
it for video work, right?
There's so much social media now and it's
really handy to get some great videos of
of the herds and the grazing and stuff.
And then last year, this
opportunity came up.
I, went to a session and they had a
guy doing a demo on this drone seating.
And I'm like that's interesting.
Every five to seven to ten years.
I don't know.
It's always a little bit different.
I need to re seed some land What I've
found in my environment clovers do
really well when it's wet, right?
I'll we have a wet year and I'll
have clovers take off and I got these
great pastures It looks like I'm a
genius grazer and then all of a sudden
we'll get a severe drought and my
clovers just die They're gone, right?
They need wet feet and all of a sudden
now I got no legumes left in my pastures
and now I look like a terrible grazer,
so Over the years, I've had agrologists
out to try and figure out what's wrong
with the soil and, back and forth.
No, it was dry.
The clovers need wet feet.
That was it, right?
After a big drought now, I just go out
and seed some more legumes to just to
kick it back into gear quickly, right?
But I've always done it with ground
Equipment and I'm pretty cheap.
I don't even own a tractor, so
it'd be a quad mounted spreader.
I have hired or rented
a Val Mar in the past.
I've mounted a spreader on the back of my
pickup and gone out and spread it, right?
So none of it's very accurate,
very hard on equipment 'cause
I have some very rough land.
Last spring I took a Val Mar out.
I rented a Val Mar and took it
out and did a bunch of seating
and I broke both arms off of it.
In the week, right?
Like I had to take it to the welding shop.
Can you weld these arms back on?
I just, picture how
rough my land is, right?
Usually there's an axle or something
broken in the, on the vehicle too.
And I'm not even going to talk
about how sore my back is.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh yeah, imagine.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
I'm 51 now.
I don't bounce around in those
trucks very easy anymore.
So this drone came out.
I'm like, that looks pretty interesting.
I bet there's a lot of people that would
want to use, get some use out of that.
So if I buy one, now is the
time, it's a brand new thing and
offer custom seating as well.
Maybe this is a, cause
I'm losing some land.
I just told you I'm losing
some land.
I need to offset that income.
So what could I do as
another profit center?
So jumped on board the drone I bought
everything together was about 30 grand.
So it was not, less than a
tractor in a broad or a spreader.
Or a seater, but still
a fair chunk of change.
And I got to seed all my land and
now I'm seeding for other people too.
And there's a, yeah, it's fair
bit of demand for it as well.
So pretty handy tool.
My back is so thankful.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404:
Oh yeah, imagine so.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: Yeah
it pretty well does all the work for me.
And on the rough land, it just, moves
up and down with the contours, doesn't
slow down for the bumps, I tell you.
It's
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh yeah.
Now how much seed can a drone carry?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Mine is actually the smallest one that
they make for seating with a drone.
So it's the starter one,
I guess you could say.
It is I can carry 6 kilograms
of, so about 14 pounds.
Of seed.
So not that much.
Good for legumes because
legumes are heavy.
As soon as you get some grass
seed in there and it gets fluffy,
then you can't seed very much.
The volume is an issue.
But just top dressing is great.
It works really good for
top dressing with legumes.
The battery is an issue too though.
I basically have to land
it every eight minutes.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh yes.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah, so it's pretty quick.
So every eight minutes, I'm, have you
ever seen NASCAR when they do the pit?
Yeah, like when I jump out there,
you can hear the air impact going
and the tires changing and right?
It's pull out the battery,
put in a battery and fill
the seed tank and then go!
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
back out there.
But it's pretty efficient.
It's the smallest one, like
I said, and I'm still seeding
between 12 and 15 acres an hour.
So in a in a day, a good day, I
can get a quarter section seeded.
With it so
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Are you,
is it pre programmed on, you set
an area and it can go across it,
or are you having to make sure
you've got the right coverage and
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
yeah, no it pretty well does all the work.
All right, so I will go to a field
and Basically draw out the perimeter
on the screen I mean you got to
understand technology and I'm not the
greatest with technology So I'm pretty
slow getting the hang of it, but I'm
getting there you basically draw the
perimeter Designs a flight path for
you And then you can adjust it, right?
If you want to go East and West
and it, no, I want to go North and
South instead, or the diagonal or
whatever is more efficient, right?
I can trim it up a little bit, make
it a little bit more efficient.
And then I hit go and
he has it programmed.
It's memorized.
Yeah.
When he runs out of seed, he'll
tell me and he'll just come home,
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
then I fill it up, send him back
out, he remembers where he stopped,
and he goes right back to the same
spot, and he just keeps going.
And yeah, he drives the perfect path
every time, no aiming for the dark
fence post on the end that, or the,
the tree with the kink in it that,
oh, there's two trees
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: then
you're like, which one was it?
Yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Exactly.
Yeah, I've I've got aerial photos where
you can see where I was looking at the
wrong tree still, like six years later,
because the, you can see the paths
where we seeded and where we missed.
So, not anymore.
The drone's pretty precise.
And it's got radar.
It's anti or what do they call it?
Avoidance collision safety mechanism or
whatever they call it.
So it flies by GPS and radar.
So I can fly at night.
It's actually pretty cool if
I get it programmed right?
If I can go out and see the field in the
daylight, draw out the perimeter so I
can see what's going on, and then hit go,
I can see it well into the, past dark.
It's actually easier to see the drone
'cause he did, he's, he's got bright
red and green flashing lights and he
can be across the other side of the
quarter and you can see him easy.
He's he's lit up pretty
good in the daytime.
You struggle to find out where
he is 'cause he blends right in.
But yeah, seating at night is
great because if, it's all GPS
and, if there's an obstacle there,
he'll see it and just stop because
of the radar yeah pretty slick.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: That's
really interesting to me.
I love drones.
I've got one here I play
with too much too often.
Obviously, I'm into technology.
I know we have a a local guy that
does spraying from his airplane, but
he is getting into drone spraying.
And I hadn't heard of drone seating.
So that I find that very fascinating.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah, it's, I'm, I think I'm one of
the first ones in Alberta anyway,
and maybe, close in Canada because
the guy I bought it from didn't even
really know how to set up the seat.
The spreader system,
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
doing lots of spraying.
They're selling spraying drones, even
though Technically it's illegal in
Canada to spray chemicals out of a drone,
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
yes.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
because it hasn't been
proven safe yet, right?
Compared to an airplane, you know that
whirlwind behind an airplane, right?
That chemicals going everywhere.
The drone is that pressure is
pushing straight down, right?
When you see it, it's you know Yeah,
it's a lot better than the airplane but
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: As
an operator, I don't want to be there,
because where are you when
you're spraying with a drone?
You're standing underneath
it half the time.
I got to be close to it to be efficient,
and I, yeah, I've got no desire to spray.
Maybe biologicals, or, organic, some
teas or something someday if somebody
really bribes me, but I haven't even
put the sprayer tank in my drone, right?
It's sitting in the corner of
the shed.
I've got two spreader tanks now
because I bought an extra one
just in case something goes wrong.
But yeah, I have no desire to spray.
And by the way, it's illegal.
So it's funny at the
school, they'll teach you.
It says, just so you guys know, it is
illegal in Canada to spray chemicals out
of a drone, but this is how you do it.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
So obviously people are doing it
because they're selling a lot of drones,
but yeah, but yeah, it's behind the.
Off, away from the highway
they're doing it probably,
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404:
yeah that's interesting.
And I'm interested to see how it all goes
down here because my neighbors are crazy
about spraying every year from airplanes.
It's,
I've got honey bees and I
don't spray and I'm like stay
away from my fences and yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah we've got to get away from that.
We've got too much.
There's tools in our toolbox and I'm not
saying we, eliminate spraying, but we
got it, but we're doing way too much.
We got to figure out
better ways to do this.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Steve it
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cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: The same four
questions we ask of all of our guests.
And our first question is What
is your favorite grazing grass
related book or resource?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Favorite book or resource?
I'm going to go back to the very
first one that got me going.
That's the Holistic Management book,
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
yes.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
The first thing that ever triggered me
into this, down this route this road,
was I got to hear Alan Savory speak at a
conference in Lloydminster, Saskatchewan.
And I just got out of college, right?
Young guy out of college.
I knew everything about the water
cycle and seeding and fertilizer
and everything they taught me.
And then Alan Savory stood up there on the
stage and said the water cycle is broken.
We've broken it.
It's devastating our ecosystems.
And I'm like, how come in all the
years of college I took, nobody ever
told me the water system was broken.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Right.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
it is, it's devastating.
Like I just, it blew me away.
So of course I bought his book
right then and there and or, read
it a couple of times and basically
trained myself in holistic management.
This was back in
97, 98, maybe.
And just jumped in with both feet
because it made so much sense compared
to where I just came out of college.
Where it didn't make sense like
there was so many things that they
didn't have answers for me Like
I was the annoying student that
always asked the hard question
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yes.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402: And
yeah, it just blew me away that the stark
difference between the education I could
get from places like holistic management
or ranching for profit or things like
that compared to what I got in college.
And I was disappointed.
Yeah.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah, because
just think how far ahead we would
be if kids were getting that kind of
training in college ready to go back to
the farm or start their own.
Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
That being said,
we are getting some of it now.
I'm actually really excited.
There's some really good educators and
some really good researchers out there.
that are jumping on
board with this, right?
And five years ago, ten years
ago, you wouldn't have that.
But we are now.
We had a researcher he's an instructor
at the university, local university here.
And he came out to our pasture rock.
I had him as our special guest.
And he was a soil scientist by trade.
But on forestry soils.
Anyway, brought him out, long
story short, brought him out
threw him in one of our soil pits.
And he knew what he was coming into.
He had every land map that's been
created over the last hundred
years about this piece of land.
It's grey wooded soil, it's this, it's,
it should have this underneath it.
And when I threw him into one of
our soil pits, he was stumped, he
said, there's something wrong here.
There is no way we are supposed
to have 10 inches of black topsoil
in a gray wooded soil zone.
Something's wrong here, or
maybe something's really right.
Okay, so that was really cool
to have him he had an aha
moment that we could do this.
We have him on video saying something
about, there's something about this
regenerative grazing that has some really
amazing carbon sequestration potential.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
and he told me it's not necessarily
because of my pasture rock, but he told
me after that he said every student
that goes through his first year soils
classes, which every student at the
university has to go through it, Every
student has to watch Kiss the Ground,
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh,
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
the documentary, right?
So that's a huge thing that at
least every student gets to watch that.
So yeah, we're making huge
progress in the last 10 years.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Sorry, I went too long
on that one, probably.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404:
Oh, no, it's great.
Our second question.
What is your favorite tool for the farm?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
My favorite tool for the farm.
Right now it's my drone,
but that's just because it's
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Right.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Favorite tool for the drone.
I have so many tools because I have
cattle that help me manage the grass.
There, there's a lot of tools there.
I have so many insects.
I have so many critters that I think
of as tools or as employees, right?
They work for me.
Cows work for me.
I don't have much for tools.
Like I don't even own a tractor.
I've been ranching for 25 years
and never owned a tractor.
yeah, my joke would be, it
would be all the, animals and
organisms and my crazy fungi.
But my sidekick is probably the
most handy tool that I have.
Sidekick or a geo geotracker,
it's a little jeep looking thing.
I went away from using quads
or side by sides because
they're so expensive to repair.
These little sidekicks were built by
Suzuki in the late 80s and early 90s,
and I pick them up and man, they're cheap
to repair, they're cheap to run, they're
really handy, they got a heater and a
windshield and a radio compared to a quad.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: yeah.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Yeah, it's a pretty handy little unit.
They're getting harder and harder
to get fine now, but that's probably
my handiest tool that I have.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, very good.
Our third question.
What would you tell someone
just getting started?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
Oh, just getting started.
Ask questions.
I actually did this.
My daughter went to college a couple
of years ago, and I was trying
to get her to not to go, but she
everybody else is pushing her to go.
I said, I will pay for, some
private courses, ranch for profit,
holistic management, right?
I'd rather you go to those.
If you're going to go into agriculture,
those are better bang for your buck.
But anyway, she still had to go.
So I told her.
Whatever you do when you go there,
whenever they're teaching you
something, ask yourself one question.
What else does it do?
What else does it do?
So here's this product that we're
gonna use, like the agriculture
has been teaching what to
use and how to use it, right?
It's probably gonna come up in a
box, a bag, or a bottle, and they're
gonna teach you how to use it.
My, my question is, ask
them what else does it do?
Okay, if it's gonna kill this
critter or this plant or this
whatever, what else is it doing?
Is it gonna, how is it taking
care of my fungus in my soil
and my bacteria in my soil?
And what does it do to my dragonflies?
And how does it, is it gonna
run off into my water systems?
And I posed her that and I didn't,
I didn't hear much back from her.
She went through her two
years and she went into dairy.
Couple years later, I ran into the
Dean of Agriculture from that college.
I knew her from years ago, and ran
into her and, talking back and forth.
And I said, so did you ever meet my
daughter when she was in college?
That was your daughter?
Oh my gosh!
Yes!
I said how'd she do?
What do you think of her?
She goes, She asked a lot
of really tough questions.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
So I'm like, yeah, right on.
That's what I, yeah.
So ask questions, right?
Don't just trust what you're being
told you should do, ask why you're
doing it in the first place, right?
And what else does it do?
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404:
Excellent advice there.
Steve, lastly, where can
others find out more about you?
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
we're we have a fairly active Facebook
page on greener pastures ranching.
We're trying to do a few other
social medias, but I'm not.
I can only focus on so much.
So we're doing Facebook is pretty good.
We got, 20, 000 followers or something.
YouTube, we're trying to grow it, right?
So we're starting to put out more videos.
So YouTube and Facebook, I
would say are the main ones.
You can find us on Instagram and I think
there's a Twitter page, but we don't,
we're not near as active on those.
But yeah, Facebook is my main one.
cal_1_04-16-2024_180404: Very good, Steve.
We appreciate you coming on
and sharing with us today.
squadcaster-i14a_1_04-16-2024_170402:
You betcha.
Thanks for having me.
Cal: I really hope you
enjoyed today's conversation.
I know I did.
Thank you for listening, and if you
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