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Tyson Popplestone is a Comedian from Melbourne Australia. Join him for a brand new interview each week.
tyson (02:19.022)
Thank you.
Sid (02:51.356)
Hey, sorry.
tyson (02:52.431)
Hey man, no stress at all. You see, I just heard what sounded like a glass of water be placed on the desk and I thought you've just done what I've done.
Sid (03:00.336)
I just, I just like refilled my tea a little bit. How's it going? Good. Nice to meet you.
tyson (03:04.354)
I'm good man, how you going? Yeah, you too, you too. It's a good little setup there. I am, I'm at the shore, SMB. Awesome, man.
Sid (03:12.271)
It is. Yeah. I had my first, I did a podcast. I had, this is my second podcast I'm on. Um, the one I do now and the first one I had this, it was a decent mic, but I'd had to set it up every time, every time. And this whole kind of rig and roll. So that when I relaunched my new show, I was like, I'm getting nice stuff, all set up very easy logistically, you know? And so, yeah, I've treated myself to this thing. Yeah.
tyson (03:27.118)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
tyson (03:32.566)
You sound great. I've got the sound I've got the same microphone actually sitting up in my cupboard I've just ordered. I don't know if you have to use a cloud lifter. I think it's called Yep
Sid (03:39.947)
I, yeah, here, there's my setup, right? There's the cloud, the clouds, the, I have a, it's a scar, a focus, right? Hold on there. A focus, right? It's, it's XLR to USB. And then I use a cloud lifter. Are you there? Uh-oh. You there?
Sid (04:03.261)
Hello?
tyson (04:23.97)
Can you still hear me, man?
Sid (04:59.883)
Sorry about that.
tyson (05:02.05)
There we go.
Sid (05:04.006)
I turned my laptop and then unplugged the internet. Anyways, no more of that. But yeah, I have a Scarlett, I have like a Focusrite Scarlett converter and I have the Kyle Lifter and it works great.
tyson (05:14.442)
Oh, awesome, man. Yeah, it's so funny. It's like the blessing and the curse of these online podcasts, isn't it? Sometimes you'll move the computer the wrong way or there'll be like a slight little lag and you'll lose it. But I feel like I'm a, I don't know, have you used Riverside before, this platform?
Sid (05:15.627)
Yeah.
Sid (05:29.738)
I've not for myself, but I've been on podcasts that use it. Yeah.
tyson (05:33.518)
Oh, great, I was gonna say, cause if I'm coming through a little blurry or whatever, don't stress, like the cool thing about this platform, it records at really high quality in the background. Amazing, yeah, that's right, that's right. So yeah, if I'm blurry or whatever at any stage, don't panic at all, it'll look really good by the time, as long as I can hear your voice, I think we're good. I mean, make it work based on the fact I'm in Australia and you're overseas. Awesome, man. Hey, did you wanna jump straight into it?
Sid (05:41.254)
and locally, right? Yeah, so good.
Sid (05:52.306)
Yeah. Good.
Sid (05:57.246)
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Cool. All right. Yeah. Whenever you're ready. Yeah.
tyson (06:04.494)
Awesome awesome. What was I was thinking yesterday? I was having a little bit of a think about the best way to kickstart a conversation with you and I thought I'd mention that I'm about midway through a book called civilized to death and It's a really interesting overview of just the way it civilization is at the moment like with so many advancements and so many huge breakthroughs and So many ways that life is made much more simple much more safe much more enjoyable the rent
I guess you could say that you have to pay on that is a lot of the times life is overwhelming and confusing and chaotic and cluttered. And I thought it's really interesting because like you, I've got a real passion for, or at least a big interest in minimalism, in living naturally, in living as close to a natural life, you know, with inverted commas as I possibly can. But you look at the culture that we live in.
And in a lot of respects, it's not necessarily set up to cater, or at least to encourage that particular kind of lifestyle. And I thought maybe a nice way to launch into this conversation and a way of introduction to you is so many people that I speak to seem to feel that same way, that life is busy and it's cluttered and it's fast paced and we've just got to do what we can with what we've got and just see how long we can operate like that for. Do you encounter a lot of people with that particular headspace?
And how do you actually navigate a conversation of encouragement towards a person like that?
Sid (07:35.114)
Well, you know, I'm a, I'm my coaching with clients is, you know, I'm a nutritionist and running coach and breath coach, but that comes much later. I'm, I'm first and foremost in the stress management realm with clients. My company's called small steppers. My, my approach is called small stepping. It's a specific kind of version of that, but that's how I get around it. Because I work with people who are extremely busy. And once in a while I get somebody who goes, you know, I want to, I want to work with, it's a 12 week thing. I think I want to work with you, but I got to wait till this, this. And I go, no, no. No. Because.
When those are dialed in, then the next thing's coming up. And if you can't figure out how to do it within the busiest of your days, you won't do it at all. So what I do via small stepping is, is sort of change their ability to look for little moments instead of big. We sort of go like, I won't do that because I don't have this huge chunk of time. And I'm like, well, if you can train your brain to be mentally tough enough to grab five minutes and make the most out of that five minutes, that those, those little or chunks add up over time. And sometimes that's the only solution.
for people, including myself, is just like, I have a extremely busy life. They got people go, how do you get so much done? It's because I don't expect hours at a time. I expect minutes at a time and then I'll grab them when I can. And otherwise overwhelm is there all the time. Every client I've ever had is in a state of sometimes subtle, but sometimes not so subtle overwhelm. And it's like, look, if you're looking for four days off every week to just re relax, you ain't going to get it. You know, and you've got to steal. I call it stealing moments. I literally call it stealing moments. Like you, it's training people to steal.
back their time to reground and connect and all the things that are, you know, re, you know, become more aware of the things that are important to them, et cetera, et cetera.
tyson (09:13.566)
Yeah, it's funny the ways that you can steal time as well. I look at my own schedule and it's interesting to see how quickly something which is a luxury can become something that you just expect to be a part of you or rely upon. Like an example for me at the moment is, and I mean this is a big broader conversation, but I've recently just hit cancel on my Audible account because I was inspired, I'm listening to a book at the moment or I was, sorry, I'm reading a book. I bought the hardcover book for the first time in about five years. It's called 4,000 Weeks.
Sid (09:34.422)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (09:43.018)
which is essentially time management for mortals. 4,000 weeks is the average human life for 80 years. And I can't remember his surname, but Oliver is the bloke who wrote the book. And he speaks about within that time management worldview, so many people will become an expert at telling you how to manage your time more effectively, squeeze more in, get more done. But what they fail to mention is that eventually, despite all of that, you too,
Sid (09:50.914)
Thank you.
tyson (10:11.474)
are gonna die and it doesn't matter how effective you are in time management, there's no such time management that's ever allowed us to actually avoid death. And I thought, well, that's interesting because what he speaks about is this idea that at the end of every day, there's gonna be a sense of overwhelm if you buy into this idea that you've just got to get more and more done with a shorter amount of time. He goes, but the truth is the day you die, regardless of whether you followed the most effective time management system, what you're gonna know.
Sid (10:32.85)
That's right.
tyson (10:40.594)
is that you died with a whole big to-do list. There's gonna be plenty of things that you didn't get done and that's gonna be the story of humanity forever. And so I found that to be a breath of fresh air in a big regard because when you recognise the fact that you're never going to get everything that you need to get done done, it almost takes off a little bit of weight, but at the same time it helps, I guess, clarify, or hopefully helps clarify.
Sid (10:44.993)
That's right.
tyson (11:04.234)
what it is that's most important, where it is you would like to spend your time. And that's one thing that seems to come through really clearly with what you speak about, is this idea of clarifying what it is that you should be dedicating time to, like eliminating so much of the excess. And I mean, that message seems to permeate everything that you speak about, whether it is minimalism or productivity, or insert your conversation, health and wellness.
Sid (11:27.802)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (11:30.526)
In reference to that, that's more of a spark than a question, but I was just keen to throw that at you and see what you had to say about that particular philosophy, that particular approach to productivity.
Sid (11:43.214)
Yeah, I mean, it's, if you, if you, you know, again, back to my small stepping coach, if, you know, I teach people that they could do multiple things all at once, just not in the same levels. Right. So things move and the versatility and adaptability of the human species when enacted is very, very good at saying, okay, well, I don't have to stop doing these things, but I have to, I'm going to do a little less of these things because I'm gonna do more of this thing and then that thing's going to be sort of done. So I'll do less of that and a little more of this. And it's kind of.
But again, it's a backdrop where you're, you're running your life this way. You're not pushing in every area all at once. You're saying, you know, I just finished a new book a few months ago. It's, you know, I sent you the thing. So when that was, you know, on a deadline that took the pole position and then other things that I do, like I wasn't running as much, I wasn't, you know what I mean? Like there's other things I'm, I'm a singer songwriter, so I'd less music at that time. So I was able to say, okay, well, the book is the thing now. And I was just telling a client recently, I was like,
I would wait for my daughter getting out of ballet. She's 14. And I would be there maybe 10 minutes early. I would get a ton done in 10 minutes because I have been doing, I've been working in this realm for years. And so I'm sitting in the car, no internet, because I live in a rural town. So I'm literally sitting out this side, this community center and my laptop comes open and I can go boop in 10 minutes. And it's a good amount in 10 minutes when you can actually focus. But see what's happening in the modern world because of all the things you listed, which is all the noise and all the social media.
our brains, there's a really good book by Cal Newport. Have you ever heard of it called Deep Work? Yeah, so it's this, we're losing the ability to focus for extended periods of time. And I'm only talking about 10 minutes, but I've been there where I can't even focus for 10 minutes. That happened in my second book, scared the hell out of me. I was like, I can't, I'm losing the ability to, I can't even sit still for 10 minutes. Are you kidding me? And so I had to go back to the drawing board and put some tools into place to get my brain back to the place where I could sit and get 10 minutes of good work done.
tyson (13:13.154)
Yes. Yeah.
Sid (13:38.754)
And it is work to do that, but boy, it's pretty great. And so it's not like I have to give up time with my family, which for me is the most important thing I was able to just kind of, I'm always kind of in that background, look, my kids go off and do their homework. I'm like, okay, well, I can get something done right now. You know what I mean? So it's, I can kind of, that just sort of informs how I get things done. I don't, I guess people sometimes assume that I'm a type a go getter type of product and really not like I'm a sit on the chair with a
book and a bourbon man, you know, so it's like, it's like, but I get stuff done because it's important to me and I know how to manage it pretty effectively so that it doesn't take over my life and make me unable to not enjoy the things that are most important to me like the family like family, for instance, and exercise and healthy eating and all those things are that are kind of top pops.
tyson (14:06.466)
Hehehehehehe
tyson (14:24.512)
What were some of the tools that you put into place to help expand your attention or your ability to focus on writing?
Sid (14:31.278)
One of the things was, and I use one now I'm not connected to anything. So any part is called freedom, but, but there are free ones at the time. Freedom is like four bucks a month or something, but at the time I can't remember the name of the, of the plugin, but I found a plugin that I put on Google Chrome and I was able to list the websites that I would be blocked from. Between this time and this time. And so, and to unblock it, you had to handwrite this pair type in this paragraph perfectly, like this long paragraph, you missed one
one character and start you over. So it was a real disincentive to try to unblock it. But boy was the weirdest thing. So I was I'd be I'd be writing. And then without even thinking about it, I'd go to YouTube just because it's just where I was. Oh, good sentence. Congratulations, Sid, you've deserved some time on YouTube. And so I'd go over to YouTube, and this screen would pop up. And it would go, shouldn't you be working? Literally, and it would block me and I still have so freedom is the one I use now again, I'm not connected affiliate, nothing. But that's what I use now. It's four bucks a month or something. And I
And I use that. And so between 10 and four, let's say I block this series of sites. They're not things I even want to go to, but it's just that I know that where the way my brain works is like, Oh, right. And I can hear that little voice. It justifies me visiting. Whatever. And news, you know, I quit all social media in 2018. So usually it's like, I mean, hop on the news as if I need to see exactly what's going on at that moment. You know, it's not that important, but in the moment, it's like a good distraction. So I'm like, okay, especially when I was working on the book, if I had time at
tyson (15:49.974)
Hehehehe
Sid (15:58.07)
you know, I run a wellness center at the Stanford and if I had a few minutes to work on the book, I wanted to take that few minutes. I didn't want to go to the news. I, I knew I didn't want to go, but that didn't stop me from going there. So that app helps me because it just blocks it. It just, oh crap, here we go. And then I go to the, to the book and it's just something I accept that helps me and I just do it. I don't know if I'll ever get over it, but it really does help me.
tyson (16:22.39)
I think I'm gonna get on. I need that help, I wrote down.
Sid (16:24.326)
It's, it's you every so many clients I have go, I just haven't, I don't have the time, but when you look at their day, we are wasting a good amount of time. I mean, and I don't mean hours necessarily, but if you're wasting 45 minutes of your day in whatever moments, those are not all at once, but whatever. And you want to write a book. If you're working on a book, a solid 45 minutes per day, you will get a ton done. A ton. So we're standing in line.
to get a coffee and we're searching the internet or we're on some social media site. Well, that's a time you could slow breathe. That's a time you could think up ideas for a book. That's a time you could work out something in your head. There's a multitude of things that you could do if you want. If you don't, it's fine if you need a break, go on social media, don't give a crap. But if you're in this kind of weight on your shoulders, like I really should be working on my book, boy, start looking at those moments throughout.
Think in moments, but start looking for those little moments. Oh, I walked down to the lunch room and I, the X, Y, Z. Oh, I could grab five minutes there. But first you have to accept the fact that five minutes can be useful. And that's kind of my initial challenge with clients is convincing them like, it does make a difference. Five minutes devoted to your novel does make a difference. It really, really does because then you get that one five minute done and then you're kind of daydreaming about it later on in the day. You know, so it's sort of, it gets on your radar and it's kind of something you attend to.
tyson (17:45.282)
Yeah, it's interesting. I'm in the stand-up comedy world here. So obviously writing is a big part of that. So I fully relate to Exactly, right exactly, right But like a book probably so much more writing goes into a five-minute set than the five-minute set itself, but I'll often Uh, I can psych myself out. So i've got my little yellow book here. This is just me going a bit more analog So I was reading Jerry Seinfeld
Sid (17:50.354)
And five minutes, five minutes set, man. You know, yeah, yeah.
Sid (18:07.506)
I love, hey, preaching to the choir. This is my, this is my little journal. And I love it. I love the analog, the analog thing. Yeah.
tyson (18:14.95)
Yeah, I've got a new appreciation for it lately. I just, I hadn't, I didn't realize how much I enjoyed just holding a book. And it's funny, because I got through so much more information using Audible. But at the same time, I think the enjoyment that I get out of it is, it kind of evaporates, because I'd started to use Audible like another thing to do, rather than something to just enjoy. And I really actually enjoy the process of just laying in bed for an hour and reading a book before you go to sleep. And I thought, well.
Sid (18:27.232)
Mm-hmm.
Sid (18:41.81)
Yeah, I'm reading four, I'm reading four different books right now. All all physical books. Yeah. And again, small stepper, I might just pick up and read a page and a page or two. You know, I don't I'm not like expecting, you know, hours, you know, necessarily, maybe on the one day off, I have a week, I might, you know, sit for 30 minutes and read. But I have that book with me. So again, if I'm waiting for my kid to get out of a, you know, my son's a cross country runner, so I'm waiting for him, I got the book in my car, I'm opening the book.
tyson (18:47.09)
It... yeah.
Sid (19:09.382)
And I just, these are the things that I just kind of, I love it adds some, it's, it's such a very cool, it's just a great addition to my life, you know, in terms of like stress management and joy and kind of thinking and cool stuff.
tyson (19:19.906)
For sure, and I really like that idea of having a couple going as well. Seth Godin, who's a guy I really enjoy listening to, I heard him say a while ago that he'll buy more books than he should, but unlike a lot of people who pick up a book to read, he doesn't force himself to read it cover to cover. He goes, I'll read the book until I get the joke. And I like that description, he's like, I see what the person's trying to say, I think I've got the key message.
Sid (19:36.768)
Uh huh.
Oh, interesting.
tyson (19:44.774)
And I find that a lot easier with the physical books than I do with the audio books because it's hard to scan your way through it sort of three times the pace to figure out what the joke is.
Sid (19:53.778)
Yeah, the only thing the only thing I'd say about that is like, you know, three of the books I'm reading are novels. And to me, there's no joke to be gotten, you know, you just like it's there, you're there for the writing, you know, also, you know what I mean? So you're kind of in I just love that kind of deep dive into that stuff. And I decided a few years ago, I was like, we can watch multiple shows and keep track of it in our heads. Why can't we read multiple books? I always up until five years ago, probably, I would be like finishing this book. And then moving on to now I'm just like, you know, whatever I feel like reading at the moment, I've got four active books just finished my fifth. So I'm like four active books.
tyson (20:00.28)
So, yeah.
tyson (20:04.215)
Yeah.
Sid (20:23.498)
And sort of, what do I feel like reading at the moment? I'll open it and, you know, and then move on to the other one. And it's kind of cool to keep my brain straight on those different storylines. Yeah.
tyson (20:30.466)
That's a really good point. Yeah, we often have a number of different shows going on. One thing that I was gonna mention in regards to what you were saying before, the little pockets of time, I would often think when I sat down to write, okay, this has to be an hour session, otherwise it's not worth it. And I would sit down and I would get 20 minutes in, and something would happen, and the hour would be interrupted, or I would just start hating it, or I would be consistent for two days and go, oh, you know what, this is a long time.
And I heard Jerry Seinfeld, or someone speak about Jerry Seinfeld, gee, I hope it's true, that he used to just sit down and he would say, okay, I'm gonna write for 20 minutes. And 20 minutes for me is very reasonable. I can do that most days. And this little yellow book that I just showed you there, I'm not quite halfway through, but I haven't had the book for all that long. And there's a lot less days that I'm missing writing now. And I'll put on like some instrumental music that I enjoy without lyrics or someone that I just can't understand.
Sid (21:11.306)
Mm-hmm.
Sid (21:19.362)
stuff.
tyson (21:28.33)
I'll have that in the background. And I've kind of turned it into something that I enjoy sitting down to do now, just sitting down, listening to some music and just free writing. Like I don't go in necessarily with any particular theme, unless I've heard something in the news or heard something funny, I might riff on that for a while. And it's actually made the writing process a whole lot more enjoyable. And I'll just scan through and say, okay, is there anything that might be funny within what I wrote? It's amazing, like just looking back through pages over the last six months, how many little one-liners in there, you're like, oh, there's something there. There's something, but I would...
I would put a bit of money on the fact that if I had forced myself to do an hour or try and do more a day, I would have had a lot less done over that course of time. So with these pockets, so there's so many things that are interesting about what you're saying, so many avenues that we could go down, but just to stick with your writing for a minute, do you have a particular structure, a particular schedule that another one that I've heard is the world's most dangerous writing app, where you'll sit there for half an hour and if you stop typing within that half an hour, it'll delete everything that you've written.
And I like that as well, because it sort of forces you to stay focused. But so outside of the pockets of time, do you have a schedule that you use for your writing?
Sid (22:36.186)
Not really. I think it's cause I'm a pretty busy guy, you know? So I don't, to me putting a schedule in place might be okay, but then it's going to get blown out of the water in like five seconds. Um, one thing I wanted to mention, what you said were like the hour versus the 20 minutes that in a way encapsulates my whole approach because people sometimes come in with these ideas of like, this is that thing, our it's an hour and it might sound like you have eight hours. And so an hour is nothing. Well, an hour can be enough.
for some people to be a lot. In other words, they'll start dreading it. So what I'm doing right now, like I have a client right now who wants to incorporate strength training. Now we've read the books and da da. She's five pushups per day. That's where I've started her because her life is so busy. And I didn't, I don't really start her there. What I'm saying, what I mean by that is she and I had a conversation. And my question to them is, what can you do starting today that is gonna be like no big deal to you? And the idea of that is you begin the process. It's not about.
muscle building at that point, it's about establishing a habit. So you have to ask your not have to, but if you want to, let's say you're a comedian, you are, but let's say, hypothetically, somebody wants to be, and they want to start writing every day in that regard. That's the question I would ask, what can you do starting today? It might just be one minute. Now what people come back is they say, well, that's not going to do anything. I go, we're not there yet. What we do now is we start the habit forming part of it, get it on your radar, get the book in place, the pen, is it something that is it the yellow book that you dig, like
get a place in your house that's going to be the place that you like and, and then just one minute a day and use and then you can build but once it's there you're trying if you get into overwhelm and you read a book that says 45 minutes of meditation is ideal and you try to push 45 minutes even if you have a whole day free 45 minutes maybe too much for you initially. So you start with a few deep breaths and you work your way in on that. The second thing that happens though and then you sound like you've gotten on top of that is we have this idea that everything has to be gems. And it's like no it doesn't.
you write stuff down 90% maybe absolute junk, who cares if 10% is usable or possibly usable. That's a great day's work. Right. And so we've got to get past this kind of idea of failure. So looping back around to my book, I've written four books, okay, my fourth one's coming out for the ultra running one told you about. So on the beginning writing that book, I thought, okay, three books down, I've seen this, I've seen this movie, I know how to do this. And it's the same thing every time, which is
Sid (24:57.246)
I'm overwhelmed by the thought of how much work is in my near future. So I have to play the same dumb game with me. I have to set my own small step. And this is not a joke. My initial small step in writing this book was to open the file once a day. Not even right. It was just double click on that file. And I have to play that game. Why? Because I've got a busy family life and I've got a busy job and I travel and I do a podcast and I do you know, there's all these things that I do right.
tyson (25:00.078)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Sid (25:23.774)
So if I go, okay, I'm a writer, I'm in right for it. I did that in my first book, by the way, and just got my ass completely handed to me. I was told the publisher, I was like, oh no, just let me know, I'll get it done. And then I'm up at two in the morning, just going, oh my God, what did I, you know? And so this fourth book, I was like, open the file. Then a couple of days later, one minute or whatever it was, once, and I just started writing. But see, I had to get on top of this idea of failure too, because I will paraphrase this quote, because I don't know who said it, but it was something like a first draft.
tyson (25:34.383)
Hahaha!
Sid (25:51.678)
is perfect, because that's all it needs to be is the first draft. So if you if you can get something to work with, you're great. But we you know, writers sit down, I have to have every sentence exactly perfect. The first Oh, sure you do. Right. I moved up to my town from Los Angeles, which Los Angeles is just full of screenwriters who've never written a screenplay. They're just in the coffee house looking like a screenwriter. But everything has to be you know, the
most brilliant movie right out of the shoot. It's like, no, get it down. And then you can go back as many times as you want and reedit it or move on to your next screenplay. Now you have one under your belt. But we've got to kind of grapple with these ideas like no, it's not going to be good at the first draft. It's like a 10th. I mean, my think this book, I probably did eight or nine drafts. Every time I finished draft ago, I think I'm there and then I have to take a few days come back to it and go oops, okay, and retool, you know, and that was before I even give it to the publisher. And then there was that whole round. So there's a lot going on here. My
tyson (26:37.294)
I'm sorry.
Sid (26:45.174)
book six trues. I don't even heard of it, but it's like, that's, you know, embodied in that book, which is getting this idea. It's not failure. It's you're doing things and it doesn't have to be great right away. You have to think it's great eventually, but just to get it out there so that, you know, my steps evolved of timing. And it was sometimes just like writing and not putting my, like the typing thing, like just not stopping, just getting it down. Then I had something to work with.
tyson (27:10.142)
Yeah, yeah, it's a really interesting point. I actually haven't mentioned to you, I'm also in the world of running. I'm a running coach myself. So outside of that, that's what I work with. We had the Melbourne Marathon here on the weekend and I'm working with a lot of marathon runners, half marathon runners. And one thing that new athletes will often say is, okay, like in six months, I'm trying to run a marathon. This is an example, but I mean, it's not an uncommon conversation to have.
Sid (27:17.03)
Oh cool.
Sid (27:31.618)
Okay. Sure.
tyson (27:34.074)
And the philosophy that you just introduced is fairly similar to what I try and do. Like it's gonna be tough to run a marathon in six months if you can't run 100 meters yet, but what we can do is we can lace up the running shoes and we can walk jog for a couple of hundred meters. And it is amazing how the consistency through that practice starts to build because all of a sudden you start to tick a box that you used to stumble at and where you used to lose confidence, you step in and you go, okay, well, I did this for the last five days now. I can do 200.
Sid (27:48.458)
That's it. That's it. Perfect.
Sid (27:57.065)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (28:01.974)
Maybe I can do 250 or 300 metres. And before you know it, with that kind of consistency, your confidence builds, your fitness builds, it's interesting how that relates to every area of our life. It's not that I don't think there's one area where I'm like, that philosophy doesn't really apply here. It's, yeah.
Sid (28:12.78)
Every year.
Sid (28:16.502)
healthy eating, healthy eating, same thing. I mean, I've started clients off with literally a one stock of celery per day because their entire diet is junk food and they've already done 1500 diets by the time they work with me. So for me to go stop being the junk food, they already know that. So I go, we're not doing that whole up and down quick fix thing. We're going to start with one stock of celery, build that in and focus on what you're doing now, what you're not doing. And it just changes the game. And I don't know if it's a, I'm not a psychologist. So I lost interest in trying to figure out why that is in us, but it is.
And every client I've ever had thrives when they can get rid of this idea that they have to have everything in place and a big chunk of time, then they start to see this evolve these little moments add up over time. And they start to feel like, Oh, I can do this. And there's no overwhelming sight. And that's pretty cool. Because then they can just get to the point where they are meditating 45 minutes a day, just make time six or you know, in your case, running a marathon. But if you think about that marathon on day one, you won't go out the door, it's too overwhelming. And you'll and if you try to push yourself, what's going to happen, you'll get injured.
You won't enjoy running. So you might push through it for a little while and it's going to be a nightmare. And then you'll do one marathon and go, that was a nightmare, you know? And it's, and so instead it's like, you know, you build in and then you actually enjoy it. I've had clients where running clients, where they just come to me, they've been running, but then they started hating running. I go, okay, we're going to start from your knees bother you because you're pushing too hard every time you run. You know, it's like, so let's, let's come back and slow down a little bit and actually come out and start to think about things and not come back totally tanked after a run and see how that feels, you know, so it's kind of back to the drawing board.
tyson (29:43.566)
Hmm. Yeah, have you heard of a guy called Gordo Boone?
Sid (29:48.48)
No.
tyson (29:49.262)
Gordo Berne, he's a really interesting guy. He's actually on Rich Roll's podcast fairly recently. I had him on a, I've got a running podcast that I do as well, and I had him on there. And he said a number of things which are really in line with what you're speaking about. And it just, it so relates. He was saying that, and to use the example of running again, that one of the most common problems with running is exactly what you just said. People get an overuse injury because they're doing too much too soon, and just assume their bodies aren't cut out for it. And it seems that
whether it's comedy or whether it's music or whether it's poetry writing or whether it's poetry, literally insert anything. People get the equivalent of an injury or burnout or some overuse experience and go, I guess I'm not just cut out for it. But all of these things seem to have a reputation for rewarding the people who are the most consistent. And I think that's why I relate so much to the small pockets that you speak about because small pockets, there's a small pocket at every point.
Sid (30:30.486)
That's right.
tyson (30:43.91)
in all of our days, but I guess before we get to that small pockets, we still have to clarify, okay, well, what should I fill those small pockets with? Because like you, YouTube is a danger to me. As much as I say, I'm just gonna hit the watch later tab and watch it tonight when I've allocated time, I'm going across to the play button, and I'm that guy who 45 minutes later, I'm like, ah, I didn't get anything from that apart from a couple of laughs. With a client that comes to you and is like, okay.
Love what you're saying, relate to what you're saying, totally agree, need pockets of time to fill with, don't really know what to fill it with. You seem very clear on the fact, hey, family's important, fitness is important, writing's important. Where does someone start in your perspective on clarifying what their main priorities are to actually fill those pockets of time with?
Sid (31:26.642)
Great question because those stealing moment discussions don't really happen for a few weeks with clients. The first few weeks of my work with anybody has nothing to do with action in the world. In fact, the mantra I use, and I hate the word mantra, but whatever, but is, is a mind first, body second. So for me, looking for moments and, you know, working on whatever that's later that healthy eating, that's later running. That's later. I have them do a series of exercises that get them very clear on what they want.
I have them work through what their ideal life I literally have a writing assignment called the ideal idea and which is to them to write out their ideal life as if they were living it now. The reason I do that before I do any action at all is because we often get into things that we haven't really given thought to whether we really want to do them or not. And we might not be doing things that we do really want to do, but we don't ask the big question. So we got we so I go, everyone comes to me ready to go out because every diet is like, get going. Day one.
And I'm like, no, and they get pissed at me sometimes. Usually it leaves you like a week, two or three, they start getting frustrated. What the hell are we doing? I go, we're doing a ton. Just not in the world. We're not doing a before and after photo here. We're not looking at a scale. Do you know where you are going? And do you understand that getting there isn't that important? It's moving there. Do you get those things? Are you ready for that conversation yet? Because if you're not, if you're looking at a scale weight, I will on purpose go, we're not there yet. And I will not talk about food. And I make them sign a contract when they start with me.
because I know they're going to be pissed at me at week three, because they're kind of shoving me off because they want to get to that discussion to go we're not every time they say when are we gonna talk about food I go you just bought yourself another week. Because you're not there yet. You have not asked the big questions. So who are you? What do you do artistically? How is your marriage? How is your family life? Where do you live? Ideally, what job do you do? Ideally? Are you know, all these kinds of questions answered, and they can be changed over time, but at least they have that thing then
we began to look into the process of finding moments to move themselves into those ideals in multiple areas. And so it was a great question because you nailed it. It's like, they know by the time we start the body part in terms of like in the world doing things, they're very clear. They're very, they know finally for the first I've worked with people who are 65, 70, first time they ever asked those questions. They've sort of been doing their lives for their, and now they're like, what is, what's like they're retired maybe. And they're like, what do I do? Like, what's the. Well,
tyson (33:33.266)
Yeah.
Sid (33:46.87)
Remember when you were a kid and you loved guitar and you gave it up because you didn't have time for it? Guess what we're doing, bringing that bad boy back. Right. And so it's like, and then we just bring it back in whatever, you know, level is not going to overwhelm them. And it's that same process in every area. Like you said.
tyson (34:00.694)
For sure. See, it's interesting. I read Stephen Covey's book, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, for the first time back in 2015. I remember I went to Nepal, I was there for a month, and at the end of it, I just had nothing to do. I went to a cafe for a couple of hours and just read a big chunk of it. And while I was sitting there, one of the things that he spoke about doing was writing a eulogy from the perspective of someone that you love about you.
Sid (34:24.063)
Mm.
tyson (34:25.042)
And so I sat down and wrote that and I thought that would help me clarify what would be really important. And my, my kind of, I sort of have six key areas on paper that I'd like to focus on and sort of, I mean, the, um, ideally like they're listed in from, from first to last kind of order, but like anything they naturally sort of move around a bit, I had written down, um, uh, faith, family or relationships, and then health career, which is like running coaching and my comedy.
contribution like time and money towards causes I believe in. And then the last one was fun. I mean, like I say that they're listed from first to last, but I try and schedule each of those into each of my days in some capacity. And for me as a scaffold, that was such a transformative process because I'm like, okay, I can look at these are where I'd like to be focused. And this is what my life looks like now. And it just made it easier to say no to a whole lot of the excess that tries to force its way into your life.
I've found that to be one of the most helpful processes in actually clarifying what's important then saying no to the excess. But I was sort of using that as a launching pad into finding out what you structure your day around. I assume you don't have the exact same structure or the exact same priorities, but in terms of what you're choosing to focus on in those pockets of time, I definitely relate to the running, the family, the writing, but what else has gone on in your day-to-day life that you're trying to structure?
Sid (35:50.75)
you know, exercise, I don't know if you just mentioned that. But yeah, exercise, you know, see, this sort of like, I exercise already. So I don't really, that's not it's already dialed in as a habit, right? Healthy eating is dialed in as a habit. So those are not things I really focus on their priorities to me. Good sleep, you know, that kind of stuff. But in terms of like the things I want to get done, I mean, I gotta tell you, I had a very weird period over the last month, where for the first time in I think years, I had nothing to that I had to do. This was very odd, because the book was at the publishers.
So there I am. They're like, we're reviewing it, and they've got multiple people reading it and kind of going over it. And I'm like, it's like tumbleweeds below. I was like, you know, and I was like coming home going, Oh, great, all this free time. And then I was just like, ha, like, I didn't know it was very weird. And so then, you know, and I run a wellness, I run a wellness center at a resort, I'm fairly busy over there. But I found myself getting kind of swept up into the into the craziness that's pretty typical of most places with employees and everything. And I usually don't
that's really doesn't really faze me too much. But I found myself getting like, invested in it. And I realized it was like, oh, I've got usually have way more things going on. Where that stuff I don't actually care about. But in the absence of the other things that are most important to me, I found myself getting swept up into that stuff. So my reaction to those things is like, I got work to do. And so I have stuff that is on paper, super dumb. For instance, I've been working on a screenplay for literally years, where am I going to try to be a get it done? No, don't care.
I've just never written one. And so I started one a few years ago, and I dig it. And I love coming into it. But it gets put on the back burner. So I brought that back out. I decided I had a childhood dream. I always liked American Sign Language. So I'm taking American Sign Language course for no practical reason at all. And I'm talking about three minutes a day. I'm not kidding. I get in bed. And instead of watching a show, I put on a couple videos of and learn a new sign. And these are the things I know it sounds stupid. But I like having those things that are not serving a practical purpose other than
tyson (37:35.008)
Yeah.
Sid (37:47.41)
it's something I always thought that'd be kind of cool to learn. Maybe I'll learn later that I don't really dig it. But also right now I'm kind of like, that's cool. And if I could learn it, and then maybe work with kids that need tutoring and whatever, I don't even I don't know where it's gonna go, or maybe nowhere. I don't care at this point, right. And so I kind of had and music is a thing. I mean, used to be a full time musician for years. That was like my thing. So bringing music back out.
just finished a new album for the first time in 15 years, you know, went down to Los Angeles and recorded a new record, it's being mastered, you know, and I'm working on I have three new songs already in the world, you know, so those are the things that in the absence of the book where that was my priority way less of the other stuff. Now the other stuff's coming back in because the book I'm just kind of hanging with. I mean, I just had a meeting last week about promotion. That's where we're at, because it's now just gone to print. So there's still nothing I can do right now. And that's a very weird thing, because I'm used to kind of being in my race that I direct is until April. So that's kind of hanging. So I'm kind of in this
no man, you know, the kind of floating zone here and it's a little bit unsettling. So I'm trying to kind of bring in things and it's time with family, obviously, but my kids are in high school and they have sports and so there's plenty of time where my wife and I are home and she's a graphic designer where I don't even the family isn't like happening at the moment, you know, so I'm trying to fill in my days with things that aren't social media or whatever.
tyson (38:58.918)
Yeah, well the idea of having kids at high school that don't need constant attention sounds unbelievable to me. I've got a three-year-old and a one-year-old and my mornings are spent dressed up as Superman and Spider-Man and jumping on a trampoline thinking I know I've been told how important this is so stop thinking about your work but gee I could be getting some other things done.
Sid (39:07.558)
Eh.
Sid (39:15.048)
Yeah.
Sid (39:18.29)
Yeah, I mean, I'm still I'm still dressing up like Superman Spider-Man, but for completely different reasons now. No, but my kids are Mike Mike, but I have twins, and they're 14. But I remember because having twins is a whole thing. Like I remember when we I always tell the story, Mike twins were I have a 19 year old two, she's in college. So she's now off at college. So she's out of the house. That was traumatizing. But my wife and I are twins were four years old. Four years got it. We're sitting on the couch. My wife and I were having a cup of coffee.
tyson (39:22.674)
Hahaha!
tyson (39:39.787)
Hehehe
Sid (39:46.57)
And we realized that was the first time in four years that we had not been interrupted within five minutes. And it had been four years. So, you know, so I know I remember exactly where you are right now. That con it's like a, even when you're not really on it, you're on it. It's, it's a whole thing. And it's funny that you mentioned the trampoline because that was a perfect small stepping thing is with twins and also with you with two, with two, a three and a year old, one year old, it's basically the same idea. Um, I didn't run, I didn't go out the door and run.
So we had a little mini trampoline and I would just jump on it in the living room and that was my exercise for over a year. I just was like, I want to, my value is moving the body. Do I have time to go on a trail run for three hours? Yeah, if I wanted to screw my wife over, go have good luck with twins and another five year old, you know what I mean? Like at the time, so it's like, you know, so I was like bouncing on the thing and it was like, great. I got to move, she did too, bounce, put the babies on the floor. We would bounce on the trampoline a little bit, get some blood flowing a little bit and you just do what you can do.
tyson (40:28.062)
Yeah.
Sid (40:42.25)
But you're not saying I don't have time to exercise. You're like, okay, what can I do if I can't go for a run right now? What could I do that still makes me a little bit healthier than before, right? And so those are the kinds of ideas, you know, I know, but I know exactly where you're at. It made me, just that story made me Twitch. Anyways.
tyson (40:58.081)
I'm so... It's so true. It's a... Almost started crying telling you. It's very interesting. I relate to that idea of just, I don't relate to it yet, but I can appreciate how good that felt not to be interrupted for five minutes. My wife and I, just before we get back on track, I, yeah, we put the kids to bed the other day and for whatever reason, my one-year-old was having one of those nights and we had one of those days.
Sid (40:59.022)
Like I have a three year old and one year old and I'm like...
Sid (41:04.16)
Yeah.
tyson (41:20.342)
and we're doing sleep training with him at the moment. So I said to Jessie, my wife, I go, babe, how about we just go sit out in the car and have a chat? So we went out, we went out the front, shut the front door, shut the car door. And I don't even think we spoke. We just sat there and enjoyed some peace and quiet for a minute because yeah, that's life with kids. Oh dude, yeah, for sure.
Sid (41:35.938)
Do you know, you know who Louis CK is the comedian? Okay. He had a bit early on and this was when I had, he's about my age and I think he was within a year of my age. I've never met him, but anyways, and he, and, and so he had this bit, but our twins were, I think babies at the time that I heard it. So it was just right. So we had a mini, I literally was driving a minivan at one point cause we had to get a minivan. I was like, God, that's a, that's a, that's a hit. Right? So I'm, I'm already in a minivan, but he goes, this is his bit and it was so right on. He goes, the moment, the time between when you,
tyson (41:56.334)
Hahaha.
Sid (42:05.462)
buckle your child into the car seat, close the door and walk around to your side of the car is like a Carnival Cruise. And I was like, it's so freaking true because I would put the babies in two of them, buckle them in and I just go I was sometimes before I even heard the bit I'd go as I'm walking around to the driver seat just that moment of like they can't do anything. I just have this talk about stealing moments, right? It was just this kind of thing. I was like, God, that's so right on the money, you know, like just these moments where you have to take it. Otherwise, it's driving you crazy, right?
tyson (42:13.314)
You
tyson (42:29.196)
Uh...
tyson (42:33.999)
Oh, I know that bit you're talking about. He's a funny man. I went and saw him. He came to Melbourne about six months ago. And I tell you, just everything he says is so, it's so funny, especially here in Melbourne, because we're such a PC city. Oh, well, I say we, but I mean, not everyone, but yeah, you get a bloke like him coming. And it's so nice to see 5,000 people come and watch and just lose it laughing at what he's saying. It's like, oh, thank God. Okay, there's still people who are relatively relaxed around here. Yeah.
Sid (42:36.848)
Yeah.
Sid (42:45.654)
Uh-huh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sid (42:54.646)
Totally. Yeah. Help for humanity. Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah, I'm not down out of shape about the littlest of things. Yeah, I know. Yeah.
tyson (43:02.07)
No, it's good man. So in relation to what you're doing, a lot of it's creative. So whether it's writing for your music or whether it's writing for your books or whether it's the courses that you're putting together or whatever it is that you're doing, the creative side of things is really interesting because there's so many different directions you can take everything creatively. Like when you're writing a joke or when you're writing a song, there's infinite opportunities and directions. And
Sid (43:08.671)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (43:28.27)
for a lot of people that concept or that thought can be really overwhelming. I know at times I think I have a joke down and I'll look at it and I go, oh, but like you could take it in this direction and that opens up a whole other can of worms. And that's one part of the question. Or that's the setup to the question. And so with that, it can take up a lot of mental real estate because you don't necessarily need to be sitting down behind a computer or a notepad to tap into that. A lot of the time I know my best ideas or at least processing some of my best ideas happen.
when I'm out on a long run. But in some black and white part of my brain, still I have to wrestle with this idea. If you're not sitting down behind a notebook, you're not doing the work, which I know is untrue to a degree. But sometimes I'll be out for a run or out in the ocean and an idea just falls from heaven into my mind. And I go, oh, that is so much funnier than anything that I would have thought of or come up with or consciously tried to.
Sid (43:59.628)
Yeah.
tyson (44:25.738)
curate and I'll put that down and I go, isn't it interesting that on one side of the fence, you've got the, all right, let's do the dedicated work and on the other side, give yourself some space to breathe because sometimes magic happens in that particular space. Do you have any advice around that particular experience? Because as a creative, I imagine it's something that you've dealt with before, being out on the long run and going, oh, that's a cool direction. Because I think the, to try and clarify, I'll boil down everything I'm saying.
A lot of the time we feel guilty when we're not sitting down behind the desk doing what looks like work, forgetting the fact that when we're out there clearing our head, giving everything space to marinate or breathe, the good ideas seem to come.
Sid (45:08.998)
Yeah. Well, I think as a society, if I had to generalize, I'd say we, we don't value thinking as much anymore. We'd somehow we've thought product productive or productivity is, you know, measurable, quantifiable on a piece of paper, on a computer screen, on a whatever. And, and to me, it's like, if I'm sitting at work, technically doing nothing, but thinking that's the most valuable, but it's like, you know, I can see plenty of offices where the boss would walk by and say, what are you doing?
It's like, no, that's the, this is the most important thing. Right. We've got these creative brains. We're gonna use them. We're busy with, you know, we waste the time, right? You know, my, the book that's coming out, the ultra running book, I literally talk about that exact thing. You're on a trail. And again, I'm a slow runner and I try to run as slow as possible so that I'm not in this pushing too hard thing where then I'm focusing on the stress of the run. If I'm running slow enough where I'm actually enjoying it, guess what? I actually appreciate being in nature.
But also just you said things start happening. I had, I had to carry a digital recorder with me, a little one. So I didn't have to hold my phone. Cause I would have so many fricking ideas that I would forget them by the time. I, you know, if you're on a three hour run, those things come and go. And so I just had this one button push. Boom podcast ideas, video ideas, song lyrics of songs. I'm not even, can you know bits? I mean, who knows, right? I don't, I'm not a comedian, but I mean, sometimes in my podcast, I'll make jokes or reverend. So it's.
It was all, it all comes. Now here's, here's where, how I think about this. What I tell clients is they go, well, I want to do those things. I go set the stage for those things to happen. That's what small stepping is. And again, people have their different things for my thing is again, the ceiling moments, you are creating the backdrop for those things to appear if you're keeping yourself so-called busy. And even when you're not busy, you're on social media. It's just a wall of noise. Nothing's getting through there. It's there.
Your ideas are there. I don't know what to do. I did a video recently, fairly recently on passion. People like I want to find something I'm passionate about. I go stop looking. You know, stop trying to find something you're passionate about. And instead, create the convert create the environment, get on trails or read a book or do slow breathing, and let things happen and let things come in your brain. I don't I'm not woo woo. So I don't know where it comes from. But it seems weird that all of a sudden I'm running and just comes on in. You've had that experience. I always go where the hell did that come from? Right?
Sid (47:30.514)
And it's like, that's because I think they're already or whatever doesn't matter. But are you creating the environment for those things to occur? We want to go right to I need to find something to be passionate about. But it's like, don't do search Google searches. Back up, think, be quiet. I read a book called lead yourself first, which is a really cool book. He calls it solitude. And he defines it as I'll paraphrase.
tyson (47:49.897)
Yeah.
Sid (47:55.478)
but freedom from inputs from other minds. So in other words, it doesn't have to be quiet on a trail or on a mountain top in the Himalayas. But are you purposefully putting something in your head, music, podcast, screen, or are you not? And if you're not, you could be in the busiest subway in the world, but you can be in total solitude if you're just doing supposedly nothing, then you allow this stuff to happen in your brain. But we just put everything, you know, kids are walking around with and adults.
with air pods in their head in their ears all the time. It's like there's never shut up for a second. See what happens when you shut the hell up. Right. And it's and it's kind of amazing. But boy, that's a challenge. Because all these things that all these distractions are real great ways for us to not have to think about and ask the big questions. You know, that's the hardest work of living. That's why clients, like I said, I pissed them off because I go, what I'm gonna have you do is the very hard doing a diet is easy. Tell me what to do. And I'll do it. That's okay. Fine. Anybody can do that.
tyson (48:32.048)
Oh.
Sid (48:49.642)
But can you actually decide how you want to live? How you want to eat? Do you want it to be long term? Or do you just want to lose the weight and gain it all back? Do you want to be healthy and add a healthy weight? Or do you just want to lose weight on whatever stupid diet you're going to do? Right? These are the big questions, but we don't ask those. We go right to the before and after photo and buy the products and we go on our way and then we fail every time. Because the big questions were not asked. So yeah, it's that is those moments of solitude. That's the stuff man. And that's it doesn't have to be three hours on the trail.
It can be five minutes walking outside with nothing in your head at the moment.
tyson (49:17.346)
for sure.
Yeah, one thing that I adopted maybe 12 months ago, I just wrote down a couple of little, I call them bumpers for my life, just a couple of things just to keep me on the straight and narrow and I don't always nail it but when I do I feel better for it. One of the things is I like to get at least 60 minutes just outside a day. The other thing I like to be completely disconnected from any form of technology for at least 60 minutes a day.
Sid (49:37.867)
That's nice.
tyson (49:43.146)
And the reason for that is exactly what you're saying. A lot of the time, me in nature, I've got a great trail that I run along here, the Ballerine Rail Trail to nice gravel path, pretty quiet out in between paddocks and farms. There's not much going on out there. It gives you a little bit of space to think. And you come home or often come home from that after I've had the heart rate up, I've been sweating a little bit and I've had a little bit of a chance to think. And I go, oh, like things aren't as chaotic as.
Sid (49:49.814)
Great.
tyson (50:09.634)
kind of what I had made them out to be. And I'm sure you've had that experience, you sound like you're wide similar to me with a YouTube conversation, but I'll often feel as though I'm much busier than I really am based on the fact that I'm filling that potential quiet time with just BS that doesn't need to be there at all. And I'll get to the end of the day, I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel so frantic. And Jesse's like, oh, we're on a holiday. Do you know what I mean? What are you talking about, you feel stressed?
Sid (50:11.051)
Mm-hmm.
Sid (50:31.434)
I know. Yeah. It's getting worse. You know, and it's, you know, it just is. You know, it's like there's so much into these phones are well, so part of my approach with clients is that they, when we get to the body first, they put into what I just call a steps list, which is kind of a to do list, but it's for the things that are important. It's not part of the grocery shopping list. In other words, it's their own thing. And for the first
12, 13 years for the first place. It was like, oh, you can put on your phone. But now I really, for the last about four or five years, I'm like, not on your phone, man, because you go to your phone, I'll check my steps list. And then your phone has a text on it. And then, oh, I might as well check out YouTube and I'll go to the news and I check my email, da da. So I have a piece of paper, literally that I keep in my pocket and a physical piece of paper with my own personal steps list on it. And I urge clients to have it analog because...
It's just having that little, I call it a sacred document. It's just this little thing of like, this is me and it's, this is how I want to be in the world. This is the stuff that is most important to me. This is moving my life forward. And I have this little thing that nobody knows it's there, but I, and I really like that kind of aspect of it. Where's a phone is just a vortex of all things crazy. It's also very useful. I mean, I use a phone to set alarms, to remind me to do things. I I'm not anti-technology, but there's just so much incorporated in that one little piece of equipment that sometimes it keeps us.
off the track instead of on the track.
tyson (51:55.486)
Yeah, isn't that interesting? It's so true, because it's actually designed to save us time, trouble, kind of how I opened this conversation with Civilized to Death. But at the same time, it is, it's just an endless vortex of potential time-wasting, stress-building opportunity. I mean, I've never got to the bottom of news.com.au and thought, oh, now I'm up to date, I feel good now, because I know that in five minutes, there's gonna be a new story that breaks or a new perspective that breaks. And I mean, you don't have to look for it. Your politics in America is one of the most entertaining things.
Sid (52:01.614)
Mm-hmm.
Sid (52:08.982)
That's right.
Sid (52:14.507)
Yeah.
tyson (52:24.302)
I've ever seen, I just love listening to different people on different sides speak there and go, oh wow, it's so interesting. Like there's so many different ways that people are trying to express this. Actually, another thing I heard on Rich Rolls podcast years ago, I think it might've been with Andrew Huberman, is that he was asked, Rich was asked what he thought was the most enjoyable human state. And I think it was Huberman. And he guessed like a lot of us would be happiness, like we wanna be happy.
And whoever asked the question said to him, no, actually, it seems from psychological perspective, if people have the opportunity to choose happiness or mild irritation, they tend towards the mild irritation. And I catch that when I, whether it's American politics, Australian politics, it doesn't even need to be politics. It could just be a differing opinion. I can hear someone I slightly disagree with and they go, oh my gosh, I can't believe that. And I'll go down that rabbit hole.
Sid (53:16.01)
Oh yeah.
tyson (53:16.35)
and I'll say that happiness is my key, but then I'll look at what I'm actually delving into, and I go, no, I can relate to that. My old irritation seems to take up a lot of my time if I'm not careful.
Sid (53:24.734)
there's a reason why, you know, I, like I said, I quit all social media in 2018, because I started reading the actual literature on how these things were crafted, the algorithms, the changing headlines to make them more negative, how negative stories get more clicks than positive story. You know, all these kinds of things are very, you know, and, and as easy as is to say, Oh, it's social media's fault. My take on it is that's what, that's what we get for demanding things for free.
tyson (53:49.719)
Hmm.
Sid (53:49.786)
They need us on the site because that's how many they make money and they're not charging us. So what do you think that they're going to do? They're going to make it as attractive as possible and make us get on there without much control on our ends. It's the same it's junk food. It's the same way that McDonald's is created to make their food addictive. So we come back in the doorman. And when we when we demand free stuff, they're going to go okay, well, if it's free, then we're going to do what we can to keep you coming in our figurative door. And so it's that's the stuff and I just I felt drained by that.
I felt drained. I still feel I had just deleted YouTube off my phone yesterday. I'm kidding. Every now and then I'll put it back on. But it's just too easy. And I never feel good. I never feel enlivened unless I'm watching like an old talking heads video. That would be great. But but otherwise, it's like, the nor the new stuff is soul draining. And I'm not in a position to change any of that stuff. I need about three minutes of news in the morning to kind of get a gist of what's going on. The rest of stuff. I don't even want to know. I'm sorry, but it doesn't help me. It doesn't help me help people.
tyson (54:44.066)
Mmm.
Sid (54:48.222)
It doesn't help me do the job that I want to do, which is to help people live their lives better. That stuff gets in the way. And social media was getting in the way of that it definitely affected my career negatively, negatively to get off social media. But as a practitioner and a coach, and a writer, why you never turn back and I quit it with the idea that I'll just quit it for a little while I'll get back on and I never did I was like, Oh my god, this is paradise without it, you know, for the family, like everything was better. You know, being on a trail and not thinking, Oh, this would make a good Instagram post.
tyson (54:53.839)
show.
Sid (55:17.866)
You know, instead just going, I'm just going to experience this thing now, and then go on to the next thing that I'm going to experience, you know, and it just was great to just see that stuff wash away. It was amazing.
tyson (55:18.056)
Yeah.
tyson (55:28.582)
This is something that I often contemplate, I often flirt with the idea of doing. And the exact reason I haven't done it is what you just said, career. If I wasn't doing standup comedy, or if I wasn't doing the running, I mean, this is why it's weird, because I can hear myself making excuses already. I'm on there purely because it's an opportunity to get my product out there, hopefully sell programs, or hopefully sell tickets to the comedy shows.
Sid (55:36.502)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (55:54.902)
But at the same time, I fully relate to what you're explaining. This idea is, I know it's not beneficial to mental health. It's very rarely that I put Instagram down and go, I'm glad I did that, that felt good. And so like you, or well not like you, because you've taken it to a whole nother level, but I'll often put it away for a weekend or a week and just leave it because I don't really like it. I don't necessarily have a good reputation.
Sid (56:05.823)
Yeah.
tyson (56:19.206)
on there in the sense that I don't know the tricks of the trade, I'm not on there regularly, I just post when I have something to post. But in saying all that, yeah, maybe it's a courage thing, I'm not 100% sure, but in terms of your life now without that, you say it's just incomparable to how you felt with it.
Sid (56:23.634)
Yeah.
Sid (56:37.858)
whole and I gotta tell you that I'm not exaggerating when I tell you this. And this is people are going to see this on video also. This, this interview. Okay. This is what my hand looked like. And I'm, I'm maybe I'll, I'll exaggerate it slightly just to you can catch the visual. This is what my hand looked like when I deleted Facebook and I'm, this is maybe a 1% exaggeration. I, my hand was shaking physically as I was going to hit the delete button. And I deleted it. I didn't just put it on hold. I deleted Instagram. I deleted Strav. I deleted.
tyson (56:44.331)
Yeah, yeah, they will, yep.
Sid (57:07.718)
LinkedIn, I deleted Twitter and Facebook, all within about a one month just delete and my hand was trembling. And that's when I was like, this is probably not the least addictive thing ever. You know what I mean? If my hand is literally trembling as I'm going to hit the delete button. And again, it was a it was a it was a test. It was like, okay, well, I'll just see what this is like. And I can always get back on. And I just I'll put this way within a year of doing that I had written almost an entire albums worth of music. Now is it because of that?
can't prove it, but it looks like that. It looks like that. And it wasn't like I was on social media that much. I had an assistant at the time who was doing a lot of my posting. But I would feed her content and things like that. But it was it was thinking about it. It was checking likes it was checking it was it was it was infecting my brain in times when I wasn't even on the phone doing the thing. And so without that, there's that solitude was like sitting there going, Oh, oh, and that's how I had the idea of my new book.
That's how I had song ideas. That's how I started playing music more. That's how I started journaling again. That's how I started writing the screenplay, all these things of like, oh, there's other things that are more worthwhile. I am a far better coach, like by 1000%. Not having social media, I'm just not as successful a coach. So it's like, okay, but there's my but I mean, even my podcast, like my first podcast, I have 1000s and 1000s of listeners, the approaching the natural one, right? That was when I was on Rich's show. Like it was that was that kind of thing. But then
I quit all social media. I launched a podcast like in later in 2018 and I've got like a fraction of the listeners, you know, because I'm just not posting that whole thing, but I, I don't know what to do. I, I don't know what to do. And I'm in a bind because I go, I probably should do it, but I hate it. You know? And it's so, and I hate the companies. I don't like who owns them. I don't like the way they run. I don't like the way I just, they, if nothing benefits, I look at Twitter X and I go, you're the least attractive.
tyson (58:47.1)
Yeah.
tyson (58:54.786)
No. Yes. Ah, dude.
Sid (59:01.738)
guy in the whole wide world, you know, like, why would I want to support you in any way? You know what I mean? And so there's a few industries like that, that I'm just like, I'm not giving you my money or my attention, you know, and it's a it's a principled stance. And sometimes those don't benefit us. Principled stances often don't benefit us, at least not financially. But quality of time with my family, better creative, creative stuff, better writing, better life in general, better without it. That was my experience.
tyson (59:09.097)
Yeah.
tyson (59:14.358)
Yeah, yeah.
tyson (59:27.058)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. Man, tell us a little bit about the new book. It sounds really interesting to me. I'm obviously a huge fan of the title. I like the idea of what it is that you're doing. It sounds as though what's still a little bit away from being published, oh, not published, but being released to the public? Okay.
Sid (59:43.862)
February 6th of 2024. So it's close, we're now in the promotion phase of what is it, three months, four months away, three months about. Yeah, it's called Ultra Running for Normal People. And my definition of the book of normal people is basically anybody who is not an elite athlete who has like a ton of other stuff going besides the sport of ultra running. So it's based on, it's a part memoir, but part philosophy. A lot of it is the less, basically the subtitle is Life Lessons I've Learned On and Off the Trails.
So it's sort of getting into ultra running as a person who is completely not a good athlete, first of all. And second of all, I ran my first ultra at 46. So this was not something that I had been doing. I was not a elite athlete at any stage of my life. Um, a runner recreational, a couple of miles here, a couple of miles there kind of thing, did a 10 K a couple of times, a half marathon when I was 38. You know, never really took, uh, decided I'd try a marathon when I was 45 did two that year they're fine. Didn't enjoy him road. And then.
came across an article about the Tara Humara and men's health. This is before born to run Jeff Stanford at the Stanford and gave me this article, you should check this article out. But barefoot runners, I was like, holy crap, this is the coolest thing ever. Then I read born to run. And I just started running on trails for the first time ever. And just whatever, whatever switch that was went off. And I was eating real well feeling real good. No soreness or anything like that. So I thought, let me just see. So I signed up for a 50 miler man. And it was like, totally out of the wheelhouse like not. So in the book,
I just, I explore discomfort. I explore, um, fear. I explore the sort of demanding of attention when you're on a trail. You can't, you can't lollygag cause you'll fall, you know, um, this idea of like connection to nature. And I call it wild attention in the book, but basically it's a cell without being a literal cell, but of, of people to explore this sport, they think that it's for elite athletes, they think it's its first type a people who are
you know, elite athletes their whole lives and have done these incredible it's not I again, I'm if you it is true, if I can do it, anybody can do it. I'm really not that I'm just kind of a very mediocre runner. I run middle to back of the pack. But I enjoy the crap out of it. It's challenging. And there's times in every ultra I've ever done where I literally want to quit. I talked about in the book, it's not a joke. I'm not like I want to quit. I'm like, No, I actually do. And then and then there's that moment where you push through that somehow. And that's the stuff that we put in our back pockets.
tyson (01:02:02.046)
Yeah
Yeah.
Sid (01:02:08.766)
You know, where we go, Oh, this is like the stuff of life. Like again, and I, I'll wrap it right back around Tyson to what we've talked about with social media. It's like, we're too, also a little bit too comfortable at the moment that we have a little discomfort in terms of things we're thinking about. We have a distraction in our hands. Well, when you put yourself in a position on purpose of discomfort, of stress, of challenge, you know, my last chapter is called testing your metal. You know, like you have to do that on purpose these days because there's nothing that
we can be comfortable all the time at the moment that our stomach hurts, we have Pepto Bismol and Tylenol, we have solutions so called to every moment of discomfort. If we're lonely, we have a TV show or social media to watch if we're unhealthy, we have all those pills and things to make us not feel the symptoms if we're you know, I mean, we can do it, we can basically do our lives with very little discomfort, it just doesn't make us happy. So getting into you know, I do cold therapy, I do breath work, I do
you know, sauna, I do what you know, things that I'm and then running and then kind of things that are hormetic stress that are called little bouts of stress that kind of test us a little bit, they make us respond with strength, getting stronger in our lives dealing with discomfort, I don't sell to my clients, a comfortless, I mean, a comfortable life. I go, you're going to be happier because you're going to work your ass off and actually going to feel a little uncomfortable sometimes and that's okay, because that's kind of humans. That's what we do this technology based comfort.
isn't real. It's not how we evolved. We evolved dealing with lots of different things in nature. And we had the strength to do it. And we've taken ourselves out of that picture. And it's not making us happier and healthier. Look at the look at the human species. We're not getting better. We're getting more violent, more unhealthy, more unhappy, more lonely. Children are killing themselves in America. It's one of the leading causes of death. And it's in large part because of social anxiety and depression and isolation.
This is not natural for human beings to be sitting in a room on a screen. Sorry. I look, I do it. But the question is, how much do I do it compared to the other stuff? Am I bringing those other things in a more, more profound way than the other things? I'm all for getting watching a dumb movie on Netflix. But if that's sort of every day all day, that's when we start to see the downside in terms of our quality of life.
tyson (01:04:17.158)
Yeah, I listened to a conversation with a pastor of a church in New York the other day. My wife listens to an intentional parents podcast and he was a guest on there. And it was really interesting hearing him speak about what you just spoke about. And he said that like social media to you, he decided to completely cut out essentially screen time, Netflix and YouTube and things, until one week within a year. He said at the end of the year, if there's a show that's really got my attention.
and that people are still talking about, and I'm still interested in nine months after hearing about it, then a week in New York when I'm snowed in anyway, I'll dedicate that week to catching up on all of these shows that would otherwise take up so much of my time. And this screen time's a real issue. It's funny, you nailed it when you said that we're not getting healthier or happier. This is the strange head space of being in modern civilization, where we look at ourselves as so advanced and so progressive and so impressive.
Sid (01:04:54.347)
Nice.
tyson (01:05:10.59)
And then you step back a second and you look at what you just mentioned, you go, hang on, like, there seems to be a strange conflict happening here between what, you know, what, what health really is and what we're experiencing. So, man, it sounds like an, it sounds like an awesome book. It sounds exciting. And I think that idea of tapping into a market of people who, uh, will definitely not perceive themselves as a runner, let alone an ultra runner is, is really interesting because that is something that would just completely elude a whole lot of people they would think. As you say, it's.
a sport dedicated towards the elite or ex-professionals.
Sid (01:05:43.642)
or even just people were insane. You know, people are just crazy. Oh, they're crazy. You know, like I talked to people who are, you know, they go, what's an ultra marathon. I go, it's anything over marathon and it's on trails, you know, 99% of the time. And like, oh, you're like an elite runner. I was like, oh, no, no. You know, and I have three kids, you know, and two or two or twins. No, clearly if I can do it, you know what I mean? And they're, and they're looking for that kind of like, it ain't me. And it's more people than you would think.
tyson (01:05:46.302)
Yeah for sure, for sure.
tyson (01:06:02.338)
Yeah.
Sid (01:06:11.206)
And I don't know if my book's going to be successful at that message, but I really gave it the old college try because it is such a cool thing. Why is it part of it is I direct a race. I direct it's called the menace, you know, coast 50 K it's every year. It'll be in its seventh year. I had to knock it off for COVID for a couple of years, but in next April, right. Sells out every year. I have zero social media. I send a mail email to my list and go opening registration on this day and time sells out eight minutes sold out. Somebody came from Australia. Yeah. South Africa, Australia, UK, Canada, and then over 15 states. And it's a.
tyson (01:06:33.91)
Wow.
Sid (01:06:40.326)
I keep it small 150 runners. Anyways, it's not an elite marquee. I don't get pros. I don't think I've had like one pro ever or two total. But you should see the people who run every shape, size, color, background, whatever. There's no through line. There's no Oh, this is the type moms dads, at least four to five. Wait for it over 70 year olds.
It's a 34 mile with 5,000 feet of elevation over seven for at least four to five over 70 year olds, at least 1060s in their 60s, crossing the finish line, like nobody's business. Oh, great race. They go trompson off to their car and I'm like, my jaws dropping. And it's incredible. So they were a huge inspiration for me. I was like, oh, this is a and nobody's coming in fancy. You ever seen an ultra marathon? It's the least court. It's like these are the rag. They're all they're like one degree not living in their van.
like they're just don't live in their van. They're just so close. You know, any wrong turn they're in their van. They're like that. And so they're wearing things that are I wear. This is what I run in most of time, not a kidding $1.50 use clothing, country western short sleeve shirt. That's what I read. That's my that's my normal running short. I got it for $1.50 at the used clothing store literally. So it's like you're there. It's like this great and that's when I started to see, especially last year's race was like, Oh, this is why this book is important to me. Because I'm seeing these people cross and they're
tyson (01:07:39.222)
It's true.
tyson (01:07:49.758)
Perfect.
Sid (01:08:05.278)
A lot of them are in tears and not because they're hurt. It's because there's an emotional release. They've done, there was a lot of fear walking up to the starting line. For many of them, it's their very first race. Sometimes it's their first race period, not their first ultra. It's their literal first running race. So they don't know if they're going to finish get hurt, if they're going to fail supposedly, and they come across the line and it's like this outpouring. It's like they put themselves out there, man. And it's the, I'm like crying throughout the finish. I, I.
I keep it at the size it is because there's one thing that I take very much pride in, which is that I greet every runner, literally every single one as they come across the line, right? So I'm high-fiving or hugging or whatever as they come across, and it is emotional. It's the very coolest thing ever, and I'm addicted to that part. The race is very stressful for me to put on. It's a very much of a family. My wife and I are loading the supply truck the night before. I do not have a crew of people, and I live in a very small town. And so it is a...
It's a thing that's why I do it. And that's why I take on that stress. Cause it's, it's the very coolest thing to see these people put, put themselves out there for no reason, no practical reason at all, just because they, the, for the intro in the book is called, I wonder if I could, and that's, that's essentially what I'm seeing people. That's what I did. I wonder if I could. And it was like, all right, well, I'll do this. And if I fail, I'll just have to grapple with that, you know, but showing up to the line is very, very cool. Very cool.
tyson (01:09:24.222)
Yeah, awesome, man. Well, Sid, I'm gonna let you go, go enjoy your evening. I'm not sure, what time is it where you are right now? It must be getting late. Oh, oh, beautiful, what are we? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, we're February, 2024. No, it's 10.05 on Tuesday morning over here.
Sid (01:09:32.584)
4pm. What's the time change? Is it like next week but four hours before? What's going on?
Sid (01:09:40.834)
I'm out.
Sid (01:09:44.858)
Okay. So you're a day forward, but, but six hours behind. Yeah. Seriously, let me know what happens. Uh, yeah, I'll call, I'll call you on the 5th of February and find out how my book's doing on its release. Um, anyways, yeah. Oh man. Such a, such a pleasure. Totally. Yeah. And I'll send you, um, a P I'm should be getting a PDF of the ultra running book. I'll send you a copy.
tyson (01:09:48.766)
Yeah, you got a lot to look forward to. It's a beautiful morning. Ha ha ha.
tyson (01:09:57.792)
Thanks for coming on, man. That was a lot of fun chatting to you.
tyson (01:10:05.978)
Oh, that'd be amazing. Yeah, I'd really love to check that out. All right, man. Hey, right back at you. We'll see you soon. Awesome, man. I'll cut that off there. Dude, that was so fun. That was so fun. Oh, yeah, I should have given you a little bit of an overview of it. Okay, good. Oh, I...
Sid (01:10:08.566)
Cool, total pleasure meeting you.
Sid (01:10:16.386)
Great, I had no idea where that was gonna go. That was super fun.
No, it's good for me not to know. Honestly, yeah, I actually kind of like the free form thing because then I can ask you questions and yeah, it's great.
tyson (01:10:27.194)
Yeah, I try and make it as non-interviewy as possible. I love the conversations. I find interviews like interviewees like, oh, how are you? You're really, really boring. Yes. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, through Rich's show. I actually have a podcast dedicated to running as well. It's called Relaxed Running. Yeah, so I've done like 205 episodes there.
Sid (01:10:35.194)
No, yeah, yeah. Where are you from? What is the what's the word? How'd you hear about me? Yeah. But how did but literally, how did you on Richish? Got it.
Sid (01:10:50.794)
You mentioned that. Ooh.
tyson (01:10:55.73)
If you're interested, I'd love to get you on there and speak more specifically about the book. That can be in a lead up or when the book comes out. Because that's got a really good audience and I reckon we could sell you, hopefully, quite a few copies. Oh, that would be amazing, man.
Sid (01:11:02.283)
Absolutely.
Sid (01:11:07.062)
That would be great. And we can do like a giveaway if you want with your people, like we could do a signed copy for whatever we can. So I'll have the publisher reach out to you if that's okay to your email. Yeah. And they'll, and they'll set that up. And I would love to do, I would love to, you mentioned a running process. Like good Lord, that's fantastic. Yeah. What's cool about the book is it's, I was telling the publisher last week because it's, it's an ultra running book, but it's really running. So even if they don't do ultra distances, the idea is like, get it, if you get on, on the trail.
tyson (01:11:15.518)
Okay, yeah, for sure, for sure.
tyson (01:11:28.806)
Mm-hmm.
Sid (01:11:33.394)
You know how it is like running on a road and running on a trail of two very different things, you know, and so sometimes, you know, people don't have access to trails, but they do have access to outside, you know, and so that, you know, that's all kind of in the book, but yeah, I'll send you all of them send you a copy down.
tyson (01:11:45.154)
Fish. Awesome, man, that sounds great. Well, did you want me to shoot you an email in a couple of weeks, or should I speak to them about getting you on the Relax Running podcast? Because we can do that whenever you like.
Sid (01:11:55.874)
Okay, I'm gonna have them email you like right away. So they'll send you the book and the thing and then you can reach out to me and we can schedule the time. Beautiful, I can't wait. That's the one that I should probably fly down to Melbourne to be in person, right? I'm upset, if you ever heard my podcast, I'm obsessed with Australia and I'm obsessed with New Zealand. I've never been down there and I've talked about it so much, I can't even tell you. It's killing me. And yeah.
tyson (01:11:58.29)
Okay, awesome. That'll be great.
tyson (01:12:03.474)
Alright man, that'll be perfect, that'll be great. Alright, hey, thanks again.
tyson (01:12:10.555)
Oh, that'd be so good, dude. That'd be... Yeah.
tyson (01:12:18.789)
Ah!
tyson (01:12:22.471)
Oh man, come. Yeah, you gotta come.
Sid (01:12:23.822)
I know and there's this family down there in Melbourne, Melbourne actually and they were like, yeah, they had this like natural foods company haven't heard from him in years but they were like, I think we'll try to get you down here and I was like, Oh my god, please get me down. It's anyways, I'm dying.
tyson (01:12:27.018)
That's where I'll be.
tyson (01:12:31.264)
Oh!
tyson (01:12:34.446)
It's not called Terra Madre, is it?
Sid (01:12:38.69)
I can't remember they were doing like cacao and they were doing like chia seeds and I can't remember and it was a family run and they were fans of my podcast and so I started emailing them and I was like, God, get me down there for any reason at all. Like I'm so obsessed with that whole thing. Anyways, I'll get.
tyson (01:12:38.846)
Natural food.
tyson (01:12:44.949)
Ah.
tyson (01:12:51.059)
Oh, so interesting. Yeah, I drive, I'm an hour and a half out of Melbourne. I'll let you go to sick. I'm an hour and a half out of Melbourne and a little coastal town, but I drive down there to shop at a, it's an organic grocery store, which is actually reasonably priced called Terra Madre. So it's like a whole food size building, but probably cheaper than whole foods. And just, yeah, all organic, all, yeah, just relatively local most of it. It's, yeah, it's a cool place. I bet you it was them.
Sid (01:12:54.452)
Oh man.
Sid (01:13:04.006)
Okay.
Sid (01:13:16.594)
That's so cool. It might've been, yeah. And they, they started out with like products online, but they were, they were growing, it was growing, so it was kind of cool anyways. Awesome. Well, so great to me. Yeah. The publisher will be in touch. All right. Cool. Have a good one. Bye. What, how do we get off this thing?
tyson (01:13:18.434)
Anyway.
tyson (01:13:22.718)
Yeah, awesome, man. All right, brother, thanks again. See you, man, bye. Oh, I've gotta press end session.