Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed departments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Success? Are you held captive by the evil menace Lord Lack?
Intro:Lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt, knowledge. Never fear, hub heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask, move into action, and become the hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the league of extraordinary inbound heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute. Hub Heroes, it's time to unite and activate your powers.
Intro:Before we begin, we need to disclose that Devin is currently employed by HubSpot at the time of this episode's recording. This podcast is in no way affiliated with or produced by HubSpot, and the thoughts and opinions expressed by Devin during the show are that of his own and in no way represent those of his employer.
George B. Thomas:So, Liz, before you get into the intro, I I contemplated since I was having this kind of day that maybe every time we said the words or letters CMS, that maybe I would just take a sip of of my beverage today.
Liz Moorhead:Okay. Given the conversation that we're having today
George B. Thomas:Yes.
Liz Moorhead:I'm not sure you'd make it to the end.
George B. Thomas:Oh, well, why not?
George B. Thomas:Why could
Liz Moorhead:you you know what, George? You get an a plus for, like, perfect Segway assist. I love that. George, I'm so glad you asked. Welcome back to Hub Heroes, everybody.
Liz Moorhead:I am Liz Moorehead, your host. As always, joined by George, Max, and Devin. Are we here to have yet another conversation about HubSpot Content Hub? Yes. We absolutely are, but it's for a very, very good reason.
Liz Moorhead:So over the past month or so, we've had exhaustive, exciting conversations about the AI powered promises of HubSpot's newly minted content hub. And we've engaged in a handful of AI rooted debates along the way as well, and that's fine. But here's the thing, folks. I know, Max. Did you just have, like, a little little flashback there?
Max Cohen:Yeah. Trauma response.
Liz Moorhead:Trauma. We're doing great. We're we're thriving as a family.
Max Cohen:We're okay.
Liz Moorhead:The thing about the in the introduction of HubSpot Content Hub, though, is that it was a replacement for the CMS hub, which was previously touted as HubSpot's CMS product for companies. Okay. You know what, guys? I'm gonna have to take this part again. Stop freaking with the document.
Liz Moorhead:Who is in there messing with
George B. Thomas:Doesn't it make it hard to read when they bump the lines down on you? It's like George. It wasn't me. It no. I'm Pete.
George B. Thomas:Remember? Who's mister Green? Mister Green, that's me. Yeah. Yeah.
George B. Thomas:Devin. Yeah. Put your notes at the bottom, homeboy.
Max Cohen:Anonymous liger.
Liz Moorhead:My
George B. Thomas:And I was doing so good on my CMS drinks as you were, like, just flowing through that intro too.
George B. Thomas:Even taking notes. I was just messing with Liz. I know.
George B. Thomas:This is the type of Friday shenanigans we're having on this one. Alright.
Liz Moorhead:I was so close to getting through it. I held it together pretty well, but I'm like, I do.
George B. Thomas:Focused on it. I'm like, I have to ruin this. Movie. I have to ruin this.
George B. Thomas:Oh my god. Noah, leave that all in. All of it.
George B. Thomas:Oh my god.
George B. Thomas:Ladies and gentlemen, take two.
Intro:Do you live in a
George B. Thomas:I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
Max Cohen:I'm just just kidding.
Liz Moorhead:That is one official demerit to Devin. I will see you in my office after class.
George B. Thomas:I ain't even mad at it. I'm not mad at it.
Liz Moorhead:I know. I know. I'm not mad. Honestly, let me be clear. I'm proud.
Liz Moorhead:Like, I'm not even I'm just like, I didn't I never thought of this. I'm so proud of you, Devon. I'm proud to know you.
George B. Thomas:How to how to mess with a host one zero one. Just hit the enter button. It
Liz Moorhead:it's fine, and I'm fine. And this you know, if anything, you guys, you are just making it so that we are cementing my therapist's steady stream of income for at least a few more months. So doctor Nash, if you are listening, you have these jokers to thank.
George B. Thomas:You're welcome.
Liz Moorhead:I love you guys so I really love you guys so much. It is my favorite part of the week. But okay. What
George B. Thomas:the Somebody's loose. Go
George B. Thomas:get them.
Liz Moorhead:Right, Max. You're right, Max. We're all screaming. We're all screaming because HubSpot content hub used to be CMS hub.
George B. Thomas:Wait. Wait. Wait.
George B. Thomas:Way to bring
Liz Moorhead:Everybody back. Everybody back.
Max Cohen:Alright.
George B. Thomas:Oh, I I'm sorry for the live audience. It must just be a day.
Liz Moorhead:Are you really, though? Are you really sorry? Because this is the perk. This
George B. Thomas:is the perk
George B. Thomas:of being an online audience. This is what
Liz Moorhead:it means to be a human, George.
George B. Thomas:Oh, yes. And we know here in hub heroes, we love the humans.
Liz Moorhead:Okay. Guys, we actually have to help some humans on this episode today. Are we good? Is everyone okay?
George B. Thomas:Yes. Let's do it.
George B. Thomas:Let's do it.
Liz Moorhead:Alright. No. I have fun editing this. George, I'm actually gonna turn this over to you. So that way, if things go horribly wrong, they're messing with you.
Liz Moorhead:But, also, this week's conversation stemmed out of a conversation you and I have been having over this past month, which is that when HubSpot Content Hub came out, it replaced the CMS Hub. Right? And now we have been hearing from clients that there's just confusion. Yeah. They're excited.
Liz Moorhead:Yeah. HubSpot, Content Hub, it seems to have a lot of promise, but I wanna turn it over to you for a second. There is confusion. Is HubSpot Content Hub still a website CMS? So can you paint the picture of what you've been hearing over the past week or so Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:With clients in regards to this change?
George B. Thomas:I'll answer that, question. If you just say CMS one more time.
Liz Moorhead:CMS. Okay. Alright.
George B. Thomas:Let me put my cup down.
Liz Moorhead:Max, how are you holding it together there, buddy? I see you like, he's got part of his face covered to keep him, like, an adult. Yeah.
George B. Thomas:I'm So
Max Cohen:I'm doing my best.
George B. Thomas:So here here's here's the deal. I knew that we had issues, and this was about a week and a half, maybe two weeks ago, when I was going through the process of upgrading from the HubSpot CMS that I have loved and adored and used and sold and built websites with to Content Hub. And then I assisted one of our clients through that journey as well. And I saw an email from my client to a HubSpot human not to be named on this podcast. And the question was, so is Content Hub just a set of AI tools?
George B. Thomas:Because the rep had sent a YouTube playlist of HubSpot AI. I immediately was like, oh, crap.
Max Cohen:Not what I wanted to do. Sorry.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. And and and by the way, the person not to be named actually responded to the email, and it was like a pretty much. And I was like, oh, crap. To which that I responded to the email and was like, hey, client that I love. Let's hop on a call, and I can explain to you.
George B. Thomas:So one, it's fundamentally confusing when you change the name of anything. Imagine if I just showed up as Bobby all of a sudden, like, for the rest of the people be like, who's Bobby? Like, they'd be confused. And and You might be Tony from
Liz Moorhead:Half of it with the Popsicles.
George B. Thomas:Right? Hey, Tony.
Max Cohen:It's my boy.
Liz Moorhead:That's
Max Cohen:he's he's awesome. Boy.
George B. Thomas:That's what I'm just saying.
Liz Moorhead:My name is John.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. And if you don't know the Tony story, you just gotta go listen to historical episodes. But so there's there's this level of confusion. There's information that's coming out that isn't quite right. I won't say a % wrong because, yes, there is a large bit of AI, and, yes, there is a podcast tool, and, yes, there is still the foundational hang on.
George B. Thomas:Let me get ready for this. Elements that make it a CMS.
Liz Moorhead:Okay. Before we go any further, I wanna just get this out to the group. Let's clarify for the listeners at home when we say George, get your glass ready.
Max Cohen:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:When we say CMS, what are we talking about? What's that? Yeah.
George B. Thomas:What's that, brother?
Liz Moorhead:Brother, ugh.
Max Cohen:Was that a question back to George or
George B. Thomas:No. You guys. We're winning today.
Liz Moorhead:I can read I can read HubSpot's definition. So HubSpot says and I I think this is the one that we all agree with, which is that CMS is is a content management system. It's a software application that allows users to build and manage a website without having to code it from scratch or know how to code it all. So that's like the basic foundational CMS, take a drink, George, definition. But I would be curious if you guys would add anything to that.
Liz Moorhead:Like, when I say CMS, traditionally, because of this change, what comes to mind, Maxine?
Max Cohen:You know, it's kinda interesting is that, like, when you when you hear, oh, this thing is a CMS. Oftentimes, what it means is this thing is a website builder. Right? Not necessarily managing content. Right?
Max Cohen:You know, if anything, all the new features and stuff that they've added to Content Hub almost makes it more of a true content management system just because of the pure amount of content you can create and manage. Right? And it's not just a website builder. Right? Sure.
Max Cohen:Can you build websites? Absolutely. You can build website pages, landing pages, thank you pages, all kinds of pages. Whatever pages you wanna make, you can make on it. Right?
Max Cohen:But it truly does give you, I think, not only the tools to be able to manage the content better. And when I say manage, you know, it's it's I think, you know, you could you could foyer that into the creation of and the remixing of and the the embedding and the hosting of. Right? You know, so I think it's it's it's super interesting that it's kind of graduated out of that, you know, sort of, stigma that a CMS has, oh, it's a website builder, to a lot more. It's a content builder.
Max Cohen:It's a content manager. It's a content hub. Right? So yeah.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. Yeah. So here's here's the thing. And I get where we're going because have I built things other than websites with the HubSpot CMS? Yes.
George B. Thomas:Are there multiple directions that you could take this if you're an out of the box thinker? And yes. But do we need a brand new name to do said out of the box thinking? So, like, I live in this world where if it looks like a duck and it smells like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. And, Max, to your point, it's a it's a CMS.
George B. Thomas:And and Nick from Fargo even jumps in, and he's like, let's go with three exclamation marks. % I vote max. It's more of a CMS now than it ever has been.
Liz Moorhead:And But what about Chad's suggestion that we just call it Chubb?
George B. Thomas:Oh. Oh, yeah. No. That's hey. We we are kid friendly here at, the hub heroes.
Liz Moorhead:So I don't know what you're talking about. That is just merely
George B. Thomas:We could just shorten it to the c hub if Chubb is working.
Liz Moorhead:C hub? Do.
George B. Thomas:Every video with, like, an oh, no. Drum solo's been done. We can do, like, an accordion solo or something.
Liz Moorhead:So, gentlemen, all I'm gonna do, because we are a family friend friendly prog cast is I'm just gonna say Are we, Liz? The most recent.
George B. Thomas:Are we?
Liz Moorhead:The most re I have tried. I have been scolded in previous episodes and been censored. Thank you very much.
George B. Thomas:Like Animaniacs was family.
Liz Moorhead:Fine. Then Chad called us the Chubb heroes. I was just gonna take a look at the comment. I wasn't going to read it.
George B. Thomas:Nope. Nope. Nope. That's not that's we're not rebranding. See, unlike unlike HubSpot maniacs.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. Unlike HubSpot, we're we're not rebranding.
Liz Moorhead:Alright. So here's the thing. Let me bring this back around here because, George, I get that. It's funny. I agree with Max.
Liz Moorhead:I agree I agree with Max, and I agree with George. On the one hand, Max, I get what you're saying from a progressive sense. We need to expand what our definition is of a CMS because aren't technically all of these things CMS? On the other hand, George, I get what you're saying as well where it's like, can we just call the duck a duck instead of a weird squeaky walking feathery thing?
George B. Thomas:Well, yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Like, do we really have to change the name? And it reminds me of when they changed the content strategy tool to the SEO tool. And I'm like, what but why did you do that? It was a it was a content strategy tool. Oh, Devin.
George B. Thomas:Okay.
Liz Moorhead:Yes.
George B. Thomas:So I've been chilling on this conversation.
Liz Moorhead:Oh, boy.
George B. Thomas:And let me start by saying, that, that legal jargon was in that opener for a reason. It's because everything I'm about to say is this is this is Devin's take.
Liz Moorhead:We love you, HubSpot.
George B. Thomas:Okay. So first thing first, first, the emotions and the feelings that were felt over here in front of my computer when you told me what that person said about Content
Max Cohen:Hub being
George B. Thomas:an AI tool.
George B. Thomas:I, about Content Hub being an AI tool. Uh-huh. I I almost walked away. I almost walked away, but I was afraid that I wouldn't come back. I was afraid that I'd start saying something that I would regret.
George B. Thomas:So let me start by saying it is it is more than than an AI tool or or or even a suite of AI tools.
Max Cohen:Yep.
George B. Thomas:But, also, you can't call it CMS Hub because it's more than a CMS. CMS is part of the category of suite of of services that Content Hub offers. CMS Hub was about the c s CMS. Content Hub is about the content. You want your CMS to be HubSpot?
George B. Thomas:Fantastic. You want it to be WordPress? Cool. We can do all the same stuff? We're gonna embed content.
George B. Thomas:You're gonna be able to write content. You're gonna still gonna be able to use chat spot. You're gonna be able to do all those fun things. Have half your site on WordPress, half your site on HubSpot. However you wanna roll.
George B. Thomas:A third of it on Shopify.
Liz Moorhead:Please don't do that. Please don't.
George B. Thomas:Get get nuts with it. No.
Liz Moorhead:So wait. Okay. Let me throw this up again. Frame.
Max Cohen:Okay. You could be you could be you could be you could be by CMS. You will.
Liz Moorhead:Oh, no.
George B. Thomas:The the goal is is that regardless of whether or not you wanna move your entire website, whether or not and and and keep in mind that WordPress isn't the only thing that Content Hub, interacts with. You know?
George B. Thomas:Yeah.
George B. Thomas:And, it's just it's a tool to get your content out there because people are talking about AI content, AI content, AI. Let's talk about, you know, human developed, human driven content, but delivered in the best way possible. That's what you get with Content Hub.
Liz Moorhead:Do you know what I keep thinking, George? Because the answer to because the answer to this next question I had was, so is HubSpot Content Hub still a CMS solution for businesses? Obviously, the answer is yes. It sounds like we just straight up have a messaging strategy problem where they weren't there's a lack of clear messaging on what Content Hub is. Unless, George, you think that there's a different answer to that question of is HubSpot Content Hub still a CMS solution?
Max Cohen:Well, to be fair, the word content has a billion different definitions, though.
George B. Thomas:Can I can I jump in? Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:I
George B. Thomas:think the confusion might be more in our ecosystem than it is externally. Because this is a conversation that I've had about our, customer facing messaging versus, partner facing messaging. With our partner facing messaging, we're talking a lot about get CMS out of your content. Get CMS out of your everything. It's not CMS hub anymore.
George B. Thomas:When we're talking about new customers and and people who are new to it, they just see Content Hub, for content. But for existing customers, I can see why there there'd be some confusion.
Liz Moorhead:So Is this what living, laughing, and loving looks like?
George B. Thomas:Might be a little bit of that. That and a little bit of,
Liz Moorhead:Fantastic.
George B. Thomas:That and a little bit of single pot still Irish whiskey, but you know?
Max Cohen:Yeah. We've got that extra large Tweety Bird energy shirt today. Tweety Bird shirt energy.
Liz Moorhead:Is this the first time you've been drinking just actively on the podcast?
George B. Thomas:It's the first time.
Max Cohen:But but The first time you've known.
George B. Thomas:Here's the thing. No. It's the first time that I've actively been drinking on the podcast. And I and I the good thing the good thing is, the only place I have to drive is to my living room, ladies and gentlemen, so don't worry. Don't worry.
George B. Thomas:I'm not going anywhere. But but here's
Max Cohen:Usually, when you drink and drive, you could end up in some living rooms, George, though, if you're obsessed.
George B. Thomas:Version of ladies' man.
George B. Thomas:Like like, listen. I knew going into this, like and, Devin, I I I hear you. I I believe all that you said and, like but at the end of the day, a burger's a burger. Whether I sell it to an effing employee or I sell it to somebody who comes to the drive through. And so there's still an issue because if the people who are on the front lines are getting the wrong messaging, they're delivering the wrong messaging.
George B. Thomas:And what I'm saying is we are on the front lines as partners, and we have to have these conversations with the humans. And as soon as there's a, point where internal HubSpot vocabulary doesn't match up with external partner vocabulary, we have a problem. And and I and I knew too, Liz, that this this conversation was gonna be a fun conversation, which is, by the way, why I think we're having so many shenanigans is because we wanna talk about it, not wanna talk about it. Like, we we we see the elephant in the room, but we don't wanna address the elephant in the room. And by the way
Liz Moorhead:Also, Sheganigans. She did. Also Sheganigans. Shenanigans.
George B. Thomas:But but here's the deal. It's not like this is the first time that this has happened, this whole naming thing. Anyway, I'll just I'll just be quiet.
George B. Thomas:Well, I think the thing to understand is that it's not just changing the name. These are two completely separate things. CMS is no longer a hub. CMS is now a feature. And so it's not about where you're hosting your final website.
George B. Thomas:You wanna do it on, HubSpot? Fantastic. We got you. If you wanna do it on WordPress or if you wanna do it on any whatever, we got you. It's like the we'll we'll find a way to make it happen.
George B. Thomas:It can be something as simple as putting, text in the header, so we're scraping, and and, putting in, analytics, or it can be as just straight up inputting the, cookie in or or the plug in into WordPress. There's other CMS where you can have a integration with HubSpot, or like I said, HubSpot CMS in general. This it's like this takes the CMS conversation out of the equation. It's like, at this point, it's like, where are you most comfortable having? Like like, is is there an objection to having HubSpot?
George B. Thomas:Like, one of the reasons I've had struggled so much getting people off of WordPress and onto HubSpot is because they couldn't wrap their heads around the sunk cost. It's like they think that the website is free forever. And it's like, oh my goodness. No. Like, I don't even do consulting anymore, but I have these, like, never ending contracts with certain people where I have to make sure that their WordPress site is up and running.
George B. Thomas:And this has been going on for, like, two years, and it is so frustrating. And I wish I could just get them to get on HubSpot, but, you know, they wouldn't, so it's whatever. But if that is the only thing keeping you from getting HubSpot as a CRM and getting these other massive suite of content tools, then, alright, let's take CMS out quick. Just stay where you're at. Be happy.
George B. Thomas:Let's let's just give you all the other cool stuff that we got. And if you wanna move over to HubSpot CMS, great. But CMS is not the center of our focus anymore. We're we're focusing on content and and customer experience.
George B. Thomas:Which I
George B. Thomas:can always been about.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. And I can get down with both of those. Like, I'm all about some content, and I'm all about customer experience. Anyway okay.
Liz Moorhead:George, I want you to stay on the mic here for a minute because I've what I'm finding fascinating listening to this discussion, hear my thoughts, but then, George, I have a specific question for you, which I'm sure will kick off another just flurry of totally not unhinged discourse and discussion. On a serious note, though, what I'm finding fascinating about what you're saying, Devin, is that this is this is the direction in which HubSpot is focusing and the direction in which, like, we're these are what we the things that we're prioritizing. But one of the things that has been a challenge that I've observed with HubSpot customers, just in the conversations I've observed as people are trying to make decisions, trying to understand what HubSpot content hub really is, is that the entry point for many people for HubSpot is that they don't realize those are the solutions they should be looking for. Their entry point often is, well, I need HubSpot to help me build my website. I am coming here looking for a CMS solution.
Liz Moorhead:You are offering me Richard Branson's yacht when I just really need right now a canoe or maybe, like, a solid little speedboat. Do you know what I mean? Let's roll play. So it's there's that conflict.
George B. Thomas:Let's roll play. Let's roll play.
Liz Moorhead:Oh. Uh-oh. Okay. We are Alright.
Max Cohen:Here we go.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. Buckle in, people. Buckle in. Alright. So, you be the customer.
George B. Thomas:Okay?
Liz Moorhead:Okay.
George B. Thomas:And Have fun, Liz. Here we go.
Liz Moorhead:I'm fine and not at all uncomfortable.
George B. Thomas:Alright. So I understand you need a CMS website.
Liz Moorhead:Yes.
George B. Thomas:Alright. And this is, like, something you need quick, fast, and a hurry. First thing, what's your budget?
Liz Moorhead:Jeez. I haven't I don't know. Okay. Right now, I know that I'm probably looking I'm trying to role play as a customer. I haven't been on these conversations for a while.
George B. Thomas:Thousand dollars.
Liz Moorhead:Think of I would say 10 to 20, somewhere around there.
George B. Thomas:10 to 20? Okay. Fantastic. So
Liz Moorhead:I'm looking to do a website redesign project, and I'm looking to have a CMS migration as a part of that because we're currently on hub WordPress, and it's just not working for us.
George B. Thomas:Alright. Well, if WordPress isn't working, boy, do I have a solution for you. So Mhmm. Now this is where the conversation would progress down the path of, HubSpot, and we would talk about why WordPress isn't working. We would talk about, you know, the updates, the the hacks, the, the the zero day vulnerabilities or whatever.
George B. Thomas:And and then I would talk about how all of that is not an issue with HubSpot, and getting it set up with the new tools, especially in Content Hub, is a breeze. Now let's say you had been on the other end. You graduated college in 02/2004 and learned hubs or learned WordPress and never learned another thing again. And so you are in the team that WordPress WordPress is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and you want a a WordPress redesign, but you don't wanna have a conversation about anything else. Oh, okay.
George B. Thomas:Fine. Let's talk about it. And while I'm getting to know you, I'm gonna get to know about everything else that's going on. And then I'm going to learn about why it all sucks, and then I'm gonna create a presentation at the end of your website redesign about why it sucks. And by the way, we can take the marketing strategy because we've done the front end of your conversion path.
George B. Thomas:What happens after that? Let's have that conversation since you love and trust me, and we've been developing this website for six to eight weeks.
Liz Moorhead:George and Max, I'm curious what your thoughts are on that role play.
George B. Thomas:Well, first of all, for any of you out there that are listening to this, if you come and say $10,000, know that you're probably not gonna get much of a website. So that was just
Liz Moorhead:a Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
George B. Thomas:I just I just let that happen. Yeah. That was that was just a fun number. Fun number.
George B. Thomas:And I have
Liz Moorhead:Don't don't have I I I'll be
Max Cohen:a great great website for 10 k. I need money.
George B. Thomas:Max. I'll do it. Max says he'll do it.
Max Cohen:I'll do it.
George B. Thomas:With some duct tape and Baylor twine. Like but but here's the here's the other piece that I'll throw out there is, I hear what Devin's saying. And I even started to lean into, like, okay. I can see where I could use CMS as a, launchpad, but then the amplifying conversation could be there's these other things that we can do to make your content more successful. However, I wanna rewind back to something that Devin said, and he said and, again, it was all Devin's thoughts because we have that legal disclaimer.
George B. Thomas:He said that's not our focus anymore. And and what I want everybody to realize, when I heard that, my brain said, oh, so websites, CMS, not a focus, content, and helping people amplify their content focus. And I go into this, like, paradoxical moment where I'm like, I kind of and I get it. I could go WordPress. I could go .net Nuke if I wanted to or Joomla or Drupal or Drupal.
George B. Thomas:Whatever. I could. But but my me as who I am fundamentally goes, but I need this to do that. And, of course, the way that I made, it's like meaning, I need a HubSpot CMS website to be able to amplify my content with the content hub. So but I but I hear, Devin, and you're starting to change my brain and how I'm thinking about the conversation could be.
George B. Thomas:Because, again, remember, this started with, it was just a jacked up conversation that I was like, Liz, we need to do an episode on this.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. Because the thing is is that what you gotta do is you gotta look at the features. And and one of the reasons why it's so easy for me to be 10 toes down about Content Hub is because I've had to generate
Max Cohen:Oh, man.
George B. Thomas:Somebody screenshot that right there. That is Oh. Dang it. We lost it.
Liz Moorhead:What? Nothing. You're fine.
Max Cohen:You froze for a second in an awesome way. Oh. You froze like this.
George B. Thomas:Okay. So the So go back
Max Cohen:to whatever you were doing when your mouth was like this.
George B. Thomas:He was being a human.
Liz Moorhead:That There we go.
George B. Thomas:Nailed my train
George B. Thomas:of thought.
George B. Thomas:Okay. Somebody chat. Somebody help. Remind me. What was I saying?
George B. Thomas:What were we talking about?
Liz Moorhead:Somebody drop it in the chat. We'll bring it back to that. George, I'm gonna come back to you for a second while Devin gathers his thoughts. Okay? So this is not the first time we've been in this kind of sticky situation where there's been a powerful progressive HubSpot rollout that has created confusions and questions.
Liz Moorhead:George, if memory serves, there was the great COS update debate of your you wanna take us down memory lane there for a second?
Max Cohen:Wait. Hold on. Hold on. Could I just
George B. Thomas:Because because I think that's why I think that's why maybe I I have such visceral feelings and response, because we've been here before, but in a different way. Right? So, we had this HubSpot tools that was the website tools. And then all of a sudden, we went from, okay. It's not gonna be a website, ladies and gentlemen.
George B. Thomas:This literally was like an inbound like, at inbound, they started to talk about this thing.
Liz Moorhead:I remember that.
George B. Thomas:And all of a sudden, it was like, now it's the COS. It's the content optimization system.
Max Cohen:So pretentious.
George B. Thomas:And that and that lasted for a brief time before all of a sudden kicked it back around and, like, psych. It's the HubSpot CMS.
Liz Moorhead:K l o l.
George B. Thomas:It's the HubSpot CMS. And so, like, when all of a sudden while I was, by the way, part of the conversations and being interviewed and, like, oh, yeah. These would be dope features, features, and I'd love to do this thing. I did not know that I was adding to the and we're going to change the name conversation. And so, like, because we've been there before, now maybe I'm kinda licking my wounds that we're here again and wondering, do we get down and I hope not.
George B. Thomas:And I think not. But do we get back to the point where all of a sudden it's the HubSpot CMS a year from now?
Liz Moorhead:Guys, what's going on?
George B. Thomas:I think Devin's mic.
George B. Thomas:Sorry. I thought I had muted it.
George B. Thomas:Oh, that's bad. My bad. But your audio is way better. Put a Yes. Put a c in the chat for, Devin's better, that better audio.
George B. Thomas:There we go. Celine was right on it.
Liz Moorhead:There we go.
Max Cohen:Chubs in the chat. I remember, just when I was doing implementation, that's that's when it was the content optimization system.
George B. Thomas:Yeah.
Max Cohen:And that was just the most awkward thing to say. Yeah. You know, they'd go, oh, can you show us the CMS? I go, well, actually, it's the content optimization system. And then they go, why?
Max Cohen:And I'd go, because it because it optimizes your content? And they go, oh, how? And I go,
George B. Thomas:fuck. Am I optimizing it?
Max Cohen:I go, smart content? I don't know.
Liz Moorhead:He starts snapping the phones on the desk. Yeah.
Max Cohen:It was like it was the SEO tools. Right? It's like the the SEO, like, you know, suggestions. Right? Which, you know, I get it.
Max Cohen:It was, but it is just like I don't know. That name was so so pretentious.
Liz Moorhead:Max, I don't want you to hop off the mic here for a second because I've been watching you be our nice little soundboard ninja all throughout the episode. But I would be curious to get your thoughts on this whole debate. Do you think that we're just sitting here worrying about nothing? Is there no there there? Or do you see any sort of disconnect or pull or push between people are looking for a HubSpot CMS, but now it's Content Hub?
Liz Moorhead:How are you thinking about this situation?
Max Cohen:Yeah. I think we should chill out. It's fine.
Liz Moorhead:I mean End of episode. Thank you everybody for coming. We really appreciate you. This has been delightful. Yep.
Liz Moorhead:Thank you. Thank you. Take one thing.
George B. Thomas:Just chill out.
Max Cohen:I mean, the thing is just here's here's what needs to happen, honestly. Here's what needs to happen. Right? I I when I when I hear George say, I asked my HubSpot sales rep what Content Hub was, and they basically said it was a bunch of AI features. The former solutions engineer at HubSpot, whoever you were
George B. Thomas:No. No.
Max Cohen:You are so lucky I wasn't your solutions engineer for that deal because god that is
George B. Thomas:makes my blood boil. Just so you know, if you're listening, I'm not gonna ask George to forward me the email because I was, but I changed my mind.
Liz Moorhead:You're welcome.
Max Cohen:It to me. George, forward it to me. Forward I wanna see that.
George B. Thomas:Don't nobody forward me nothing. No. No.
George B. Thomas:I'm not trying to get fired.
Liz Moorhead:You know what?
George B. Thomas:And and and go again. Don't forward me nothing.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. I'm I'm not forwarding any emails. And and if you're listening to this episode, I really wish you would just go over to community.hubheroes.com and watch the video version because the faces that Max and Devon made at the same time during that last portion, Liz, we should've done a screenshot of that. You're in
Liz Moorhead:trouble. Haven't already been taking them. Please, no none of you are ever safe from my screenshot thing. Never happens.
Max Cohen:So I will say, HubSpot sales reps have a product knowledge problem. Right? And it's part and parcel of the nature of the role. Right? I can't tell you how many times when I was trying to push how important product knowledge was doing new hire training, the folks who didn't believe that it was important would say things back to me like, oh, the sales reps don't need to know the product.
Max Cohen:They just need to understand the value. Wrong. Incorrect. Because I have sales managers that also tell me my best salespeople are the ones that know the product the best. Right?
Max Cohen:Here's the thing. Do you have to be a product expert as a salesperson? No. But you should at least be able to accurately explain what the one of the hubs are. Right?
Max Cohen:Mhmm. You know, and so what I would encourage, any HubSpot sales reps listening to this, episode, or It
Liz Moorhead:keeps making eye contact with the camera, and it keeps making me very uncomfortable. Yeah.
George B. Thomas:I can't I can't do anything.
George B. Thomas:I didn't do anything. With the camera. I didn't do it. Because I can't even bring myself to look at them. But I'm sorry.
George B. Thomas:Go ahead, Max.
Max Cohen:Yeah. Sorry. Anyway, you need to be able to do this for every single hub is be able to explain each hub in one sense. Right? So you understand the role that it plays when it comes to spinning that flywheel.
Max Cohen:Right? The content hub just helps you build all of your content. The marketing hub helps you market said content. It's that simple. Right?
Max Cohen:You don't have to know all the ins and outs of it. Right? But you should at least be able to have a general explanation of what the heck this giant chunk of the product is. Right? So I would encourage any customer facing HubSpotters watching this, right, to kind of come up with your script, your your unique way of explaining it.
Max Cohen:Right? As long as it accurate explains, like, what it is, you you kinda owe it to the HubSpot community to be able to do that, and it's only gonna help you. I promise. Right? You wanna sell more HubSpot?
Max Cohen:Be able to explain it succinctly and not lie about what it is. Not lie about what it is, but not incorrectly explain what it is.
George B. Thomas:I mean, let's let's Sorry. Let's be honest. Okay? First of all, side tangent but not side tangent, you officially have eleven days of the day of this recording to switch your navigation to the new navigation. By the time this goes out, you'll have about nine days to switch your navigation to the new navigation and the sidebar navigation.
George B. Thomas:I want to just say something for a second. If I click on what is the content link for the content hub, because there's the marketing and there's the commerce and the if I click on content, at the very top, it says website pages. After that, it says landing pages. After that, it says blog. In mine, after that, it says podcast.
George B. Thomas:It's in beta, ladies and gentlemen, but it's gonna be dope when it's done. I actually talked to one of the PMs earlier this week, and I'm super excited. After that, it's got embeds. After that, it's got knowledge base. After that, it's got customer portal.
George B. Thomas:By the way, has anybody heard anything that has anything to do with freaking AI? That's what after that, it's HubDB. Then it's got remix, which is, by the way, an AI feature that helps you make content confetti and helps you amplify your content and create content faster than SEO and design manager. Out of a list of, what, nine, ten, 11? I don't know.
George B. Thomas:I didn't count on the way through me looking at this. There's one AI tool. Now is there AI tools in the blog? Yes. Are there AI settings for your voice and, brand your brand voice?
George B. Thomas:Yes. So there are things salt and peppered in this, but when you look at the core piece of what it is in your main navigation, there's literally one AI tool. So to go back to the original conversation, so Content Hub is basically a glorified AI hub. Uh-huh. No.
George B. Thomas:No. It's not. It's not. Brother, ew. Oh.
George B. Thomas:Anyway, I'm a little bit passionate about this lady. You know how many websites I've built since I opened my business? And, like and we just were happy with calling it a CMS.
George B. Thomas:We did.
Liz Moorhead:I love it. So, George, as we wrap up today's conversation, you know, the the genesis for this totally normal, completely professional, g rated episode of the Hub Heroes podcast.
George B. Thomas:Questionable.
Liz Moorhead:I was leaning into Noah's superpowers of production.
George B. Thomas:Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Also that. That.
Liz Moorhead:We have tested you.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. We've tested. Like, he's gonna be super happy, then I'm like, bro, get ready with the scissors. Like, you're gonna be cutting.
Liz Moorhead:Chop chop. But, George, the the genesis for today's conversation really centered around the fact that you were experiencing confusion with your clients.
George B. Thomas:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:And you wanted to have this more zoomed out conversation to bring you clarity as well around how we should be thinking about and talking about HubSpot content hub, RIP, HubSpot CMS hub.
George B. Thomas:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Have your feelings or perspectives changed on this topic since the start of our conversation?
George B. Thomas:Yes and no. Do I believe that, the CMS portion of the conversation is a good launching pad? Yes. Do I believe that Content Hub gives us other things to talk about and also a direction to go and make, the HubSpot SaaS software better and therefore helping people make better content? Yes.
George B. Thomas:Do I still think that there's going to be a billion and one people searching CMS? Yes. As somebody who builds websites on a CMS, does it make sense for me to change the name of every article or video that I've created that talks about the difference of CMS and WordPress or CMS and x y z? I I I wanna start twitching because I can create the content to align with the brand messaging of HubSpot, but does that then mean I'm not creating the content to the intention of the searcher? And ladies and gentlemen, that scares the ish out of me.
Liz Moorhead:The way I think about it as someone who's been creating a lot of content about it recently, Devin double clicked on what my instinct was, which is that it is the HubSpot content hub. That is what we're leading with. But to his point, the CMS is a feature.
George B. Thomas:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:It's not that HubSpot is no longer offering you a CMS solution. It's just that is not the posture. That is not the way they're leaning forward with it. So for example, I was working on articles this week, as you know, about the HubSpot CMS, whether or not it's the, you know, content of and the way I've described it is the HubSpot CMS features, now HubSpot content hub. Like, I'm still leading with that because to your point, we have a situation where there is the place that we are leading people to from a conversational aspect.
Liz Moorhead:And when I say we, I mean HubSpot. Right? HubSpot is saying this is what we're prioritizing. We are the HubSpot content hub. But the by the means by which they're gonna get there is what I'm looking for at CMS.
Liz Moorhead:Here That's where I'm looking to go.
George B. Thomas:So I like like, 50 to 55% agree with George on switching up the content. Here's why. So it can be nightmare for video. Wouldn't even bother. I don't think it makes sense to try and completely scrub your the Internet of it.
George B. Thomas:But number one, of course, be mindful going forward. But two, even going back and changing it, to me, I see it as repurposing the content because now you're refreshing old content with a new name that isn't really out there yet. On top of that, if you have been a good human being, you wouldn't need the word CMS hub in it to qualify for people who are looking for CMS because everything about CMS plus the word CMS outside the word CMS hub, if the content is about helping people who are looking for a CMS solution, we're we're
Liz Moorhead:we're we're thing, though. I'm not calling it the CMS hub. I'm just merely saying that the there is a CMS component of HubSpot that is within HubSpot. Yeah.
George B. Thomas:But what what I'm talking about is the the the repurposing. One of the things that George said was, going back and changing video and changing the content and losing, searchers because of that. What I'm saying is that I think the content will still be as strong if the content was strong beforehand. The content should be able to stand on its own. If we're talking about the product, then changing the content, changing the name of the product doesn't diminish the, the value of the content if the content is primarily about CMS solutions.
Liz Moorhead:Gotcha. Okay. Now final question.
George B. Thomas:If we're talking sorry. Just real quick. If we're talking 02/2008 Google, absolutely. Shoot yourself in the foot. But today, Google
Max Cohen:I can play in for a second
George B. Thomas:if you want.
Liz Moorhead:Yes. Talk to the lobby.
Max Cohen:I think it is an absolute crime that they do not have a link in the content navigation to HubSpot video. It's insane to me that I need to go to files and then sort by video to see the video. Right? And it's not just under content. And especially with how sick the video module is
Liz Moorhead:Mhmm.
Max Cohen:Or HubSpot video on CMS pages. I literally had no idea until this very moment
George B. Thomas:Wait. What?
Max Cohen:That no. No. No. Oh, I I I I did not have any idea how much you could do with a HubSpot video on a CMS page.
George B. Thomas:Oh, yeah.
Max Cohen:You can change the size. You can make it full width. You can have it be the original size. You can add subtitles. You can drop in a CTA, put it behind a form.
Max Cohen:You can loop it, mute it, autoplay it, and hide the controls, and then you could even choose what color the play button is.
George B. Thomas:Hey. But you missed Why are we hiding it Yeah. From the navigation?
Max Cohen:Yeah. It's insane to me. I Anyway
George B. Thomas:I agree. There needs to be some, like
Max Cohen:Swing and a miss.
George B. Thomas:Needs to go in that direction. Here's the thing, Max. You even missed one that I love is that you can do the top and bottom spacing of your player so that when you put it in, like, the middle of a pair a couple paragraphs in your blog article, that you don't have to do extra just returns or paragraph returns because you can literally do the spacing at the top and bottom of your player too. Like, I love
Liz Moorhead:the player.
Max Cohen:Like, it's like and it it's just it's just hidden. It's hidden away. It is tucked away. The the most one of the most important formats of content Facts. Is just hidden away.
Max Cohen:Come on, guys.
George B. Thomas:Come on. Hey, Liz. Did you know that you have something highlighted in pink in our show notes?
Max Cohen:Stop messing with doc, George.
George B. Thomas:It's not me. I'm just looking at it. I mean, that's where we started is I was being asked why I had something highlighted in the document. And
Liz Moorhead:I was asking because I wanted to make sure I didn't miss any questions you had before we went live. I was trying to be a good host and a facilitator. John, I have the one
George B. Thomas:that you have highlighted is where we're going.
Max Cohen:I have one for this.
Liz Moorhead:What? The question I'm about to ask, Max? Yeah. Okay. Cool.
Max Cohen:Ask you.
Liz Moorhead:I really I will.
Max Cohen:Can you ask me
Liz Moorhead:that? Yeah. Okay. Now that we've made a case to HubSpot as to why we should absolutely be allowed to do a live show at
George B. Thomas:inbox Without a doubt.
Liz Moorhead:%. Hire us. Call us. Here's my last question to you all. And, Max, you can start.
Liz Moorhead:What would we like to see from HubSpot when it comes to future rollouts? Are there ways as HubSpotters should be educating ourselves when HubSpot rolls out big changes like this, or both? Do we want something from HubSpot, or should we be doing something differently? Max.
Max Cohen:Okay. Okay. Alright. So I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because of how much I've been playing with Yvette happily. And because of my, my, job having a lot I don't know how I'm supposed to say this.
Max Cohen:Because I've been setting up a lot of demo portal stuff, right, I've gotten very familiar with the way dynamic content works on CMS pages for Content Hub Pro and above. Right? You we've had dynamic content before. It was it was part of HubSpot CMS, you know, even before. But what's really cool if you guys don't know what dynamic content is, it basically lets you turn on a setting on pages that you build, in the in the website page or landing page tool, right, where it will basically let you use modules that you've created that suck in information about records in your database.
Max Cohen:Right? The only downside is is you need a CMS developer to custom code those modules. What I would love love to see in Content Hub is if they had, like, a CMS module codeless builder, right, or a codeless CMS module builder where it's like, cool. What do you wanna display? Oh, I wanna display information about this kind of object, or I wanna be able to display, you know, information about associated objects to whatever object this page is dynamically set up to use or something like that.
Max Cohen:Right? And then being able to, like, build modules that are like, cool. Do you wanna show it as, like, a card or like a gallery or like a whatever or a listing or something like that? Like, they could totally do something where you could build, like, modules codelessly just by using, like, a drag and drop editor or something that sucks in data from your your your CRM records. That would be so cool because then you could start to build some really, really, really powerful stuff without having to get a developer to code it.
Max Cohen:Right? And at least just like basic stuff. Sure. It doesn't have to do everything in the world. Right?
Max Cohen:But to be at least be able to say, like, oh, I want a module that will show, you know, listings of objects that, like, meet a certain criteria or something like that. Like, that would be so cool and such a great addition to Content
Liz Moorhead:Hub. Alright. George.
George B. Thomas:So what would we like to see from HubSpot when it comes to future rollouts? Or are there ways us HubSpotters should be educating ourself when HubSpot rolls out big changes like this? I'm gonna go with the second one. That's the one I wanna answer. There needs to be a little bit more of a ecosystem in which we get the time and we get the access access as partners to play with these tools.
George B. Thomas:Because if we truly start to know them and use them, and then if we become the voice of customer for the people who are gonna, like, write the copy or at least part of the voice of customer for the people who are gonna write the copy that the front end sales team and engineers and whoever is going to use. You have humans in this ecosystem that have ten, twenty, thirty, forty years of business experience that could give you some very vital insights. And granted, I know that we get a partner thing to fill out once a year to, like, the e I get it, but this is different. This is different. Now do I also realize that that might get a little chaotic?
George B. Thomas:Then be choosy on who you pick to be the alpha users or the beta users or to have in the conversation that is the voice of customer. But at the end of the day, the training has to be there immediately as well. Like, HubSpot has gotten better at this, but we reached a long time ago where it was almost impossible for HubSpot Academy to keep up with product updates and product, launches. And that's why Kyle Jepsen has this job, by the way, because somebody realized it's a human's full time job to be talking about all the stuff that's happening. Well, guess what?
George B. Thomas:You have thousands and thousands of partners that it's our job as well to be talking about what's happening. So getting that education quickly for any of these massive rollouts, to me, is a huge portion of it. Like, I'll give you an example. We launched, super admin training on sidekickstrategies.com. In it, one of the week's modules was the CMS.
George B. Thomas:Now it won't be about the CMS. It'll be about the content hub. But in the content hub week, we'll talk about the CMS, and we'll talk about other tools. I can only do that because, well, one, we make a show every week. Two, I'm an idiot, and I go to product updates every single morning with my first cup of coffee to look at what's happening in HubSpot.
George B. Thomas:But not mere mortal humans, even partner agencies, not everybody can do that or does that. So there's something there about, like, getting our voice and also escalating the training to the humans. I gotta be careful I say this, but that matter that we get it in their hands first. Okay. That's enough.
Liz Moorhead:I agree with you, Georgia. In fact, that's I'm gonna double click on your answer here. I think I think the answer is twofold. I think HubSpot is changing in very big ways. And five or ten years ago when they used to make big changes, they were quote, unquote big, but the ecosystem itself was much smaller.
Liz Moorhead:So I think we're feeling the ripple effects of that. And I think also that this is the whole idea of change. Right? It it change, even when it's positive, is disruptive. You know?
Liz Moorhead:It's the who moved my cheese thing. Right? The cheese is still there. It's just on a different table. Just move.
Liz Moorhead:You know? The other piece of it, though, is that to your point, George, there there has to be a way to bring certain partners along in this process because part of successful adoption and excitement around the platform is gonna hinge upon your evangelists, your ambassadors, your partner agencies, who, your solutions partners. They have to be able to speak with authority and confidence and should never end up in conversations where they're like, you know, I have the same questions myself, but I'll get back to you. And I think that's where we run into this tricky thing. Now I know that's in a lot of ways easier said than done, and HubSpot does a really great job of working hard to foster those partner agency and solutions partner relationships.
Liz Moorhead:My NOC isn't on that. My challenge is that what the ecosystem is much more complex. We have more people who are gonna have more opinions than ever about what these changes are and how they feel about them. And simply changing a hub name is going to create unhinged discussions just like this one born of four people who have been in this ecosystem for over a decade. Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:And that, I think, says something. I think it's I think it's a both end. I agree with you, George, but I think I would love to see from HubSpot ways in which they go out of their way to say, hey. You're about to get a lot of questions about this. You're about to have a lot of people who potentially may be confused about this.
Liz Moorhead:These are the things that we're doing. These are the things that we're talking about. I am a content strategist who has been the HubSpot ecosystem for more than a decade, and Content Hub should have been the biggest headline coming over the horizon for me, and I didn't know about it until it was already here. Yep. I'm not saying I'm particularly special, but my point is that
George B. Thomas:you are.
Liz Moorhead:Thank you. But there are plenty of other people out there like me, plenty of other agencies out there like me, plenty of other solutions partners out there like me where it's like, activate us, make us your evangelist. Even if you're only giving me crumbs just so I know it's coming and I know how to talk about it. Because when it got here, I'm like, I am very confused. I'm hearing AI powered.
Liz Moorhead:I'm hearing it's still a CMS, but it's not a CMS. I'm hearing the I'm hearing everything Devin is saying, and I completely agree, Devin, by the way, a % with the things that you're saying. But there's just this it was a waterfall of information, and I was not given a compass by HubSpot in which to have informed conversations with HubSpot customers who are coming to me with questions. Because, George, you're not the only one who's been getting client questions about that. I've been getting it too, and I'm like, well, if we'd oh, the new navigation.
Liz Moorhead:Right. Like
George B. Thomas:Yeah. Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Yes. I too am fluent in all of this. You know? So that's my thinking on it. Devin, love light of my life, take us home.
Liz Moorhead:What are your thoughts on the answer to this question?
George B. Thomas:So, that used to be a running joke with me for a long time, is that you always find out about HubSpot updates when you're on a demo call with customers.
Liz Moorhead:Mhmm.
George B. Thomas:Pin there. Mhmm.
George B. Thomas:And, but that's something that has been heard and has been acted on, which is why we are doing spotlights. The most recent one was the spring spotlight. And these are opportunities to, showcase, the big, you know, feature product releases. The most recent one was, you know, April 24 was the big product spotlight. However, prior to April 24, there was a forty five minute long video that went out to partners, about, the there was, the spring spotlight.
George B. Thomas:Now granted, it didn't go out to everybody.
Liz Moorhead:Mhmm.
George B. Thomas:But it, yeah, it went out to a lot of partners, about it. But, it those were in detail. Also, these things were talked about in the partner digest. And, so I understand that we can have more of a conversation around these, you know, feature products, But that's one of the things that we're focusing on with Spotlight. Between the Spotlight and the open betas, there are ways, especially partners, that you can enroll in these open betas, and and check them out, get signed up.
George B. Thomas:And plus we love the feedback on the tools. But, yeah, that's that's, the the two sides of it, that we are getting significantly better, but also, like, exceedingly frustrating with the, answers from the internal person, because we have an internal Wiki. We have all the everything detailed and right at our fingertips. And not only, to inform us, it's literally verbatim what to say about it to other people. And so, like, that's still frustrating and shouldn't have happened.
George B. Thomas:But, yeah, they're getting better. They're getting better. And I can say we're getting better because I'm a part of it. Yay.
Max Cohen:I love it. Yeah. Liz, I'm realizing I grossly misunderstood the question when I came in with a feature request because when we said rollouts, I thought you meant, that. But We
George B. Thomas:still love
Max Cohen:it. I think only We
Liz Moorhead:love you, Max.
Max Cohen:The only thing I would say right? Because I think Spotlight's a really good example of how they're, like, rolling stuff or of, like, rolling stuff out. Right? You know, there was a lot of people after Spotlight that was, like, you know, just, you know, the the rabbit HubSpot community. Right?
Max Cohen:The folks that, literally wake up in the morning, roll over, grab their phone, and bring up the product update page, or the folks that lick the screen when Kyle is doing his product update videos. Right? The the folks that just so intentionally the hub hawks. Right? They're they're watching HubSpot so intensely, and they know a second an update comes out so they can plug that thing in a chat GPT and make, like, an up the update post about it on LinkedIn.
Max Cohen:Right? We all see it. Obviously, spotlight wasn't for those people. However, the thing that was kind of like a miss, and if there was any feedback that I would give for the team, is that instead of having those folks go out and go, spotlight was so awesome. Look at all this new stuff.
Max Cohen:What they did is they went and posted being like,
George B. Thomas:I already knew about all this stuff.
Max Cohen:Right? And that's where I feel like that kind of fumbled a little bit. Right? Granted, there was a couple new service hub features that no one has seen yet, and that was super cool. Right?
Max Cohen:And it was the way they delivered it, the production value, unbelievable. Right? Spotlight is amazing. But what I think they should do to really make sure it has a punch, right, is be a little bit tighter on the betas. Right?
Max Cohen:Like, you don't need to immediately push stuff into open beta public like, you could you could hang back. I know. You're up and listen. I'm just I'm talking about from the marketer's perspective. Right?
Max Cohen:Hold on a sec. This is
Liz Moorhead:George CMS. Drink.
Max Cohen:Yeah. Drink. Drink. Just keep drinking. Do you really, really wanna make a punch at those?
Max Cohen:Or, like, because the thing is, it's also okay to say, this is product spotlight. It's where we bring together all the most recent important updates and tell you how freaking awesome they are. Right? And put them into context. That's fine if you wanna do that.
Max Cohen:The tough thing is is they made us all think that there was gigantic brand new HubSpot, like, products coming. Right? And then we all showed up and saw three new service hub features and went, oh, here's an AI video. Right? Like and it was a little you know?
Max Cohen:Well, I thought it was sick for a lot of people. You know? Yeah. You would have much rather had them sharing and saying this is awesome versus, like, I felt cheated by spotlight. Right?
Max Cohen:You don't want that. So, like, you gotta figure out a way to get those people to go amplify that stuff. You know? And I think, you know, if you're gonna say you're showing new stuff, you gotta show a lot of new stuff. Yeah.
Max Cohen:Right? So some feedback for the future.
George B. Thomas:Love it.
Liz Moorhead:Well, that's why messaging strategies are so important. Let's go back to the beginning of this episode when we had the HubSpot solutions person who shall not be named with the AI messaging. I think I watched the light go out of Devin's eyes and his soul escape his body when he heard it. I think where we get challenged from a partner perspective and an internal perspective is making sure we're all saying the same thing, that we're all aligned on what it actually is, what problems it solves, and what are the promises it actually intends to keep. Because you can have the greatest product in the world, but if there is not clarity on what exactly it is and it's not it's not talked about in a consistent way, that's where these things get tripped up.
Liz Moorhead:And that's why one person can make such a difference. You may have most of the people inside of HubSpot talking about it perfectly fine, but that what that one person will leak through. So I get really up on my soapbox about messaging. Devin? Yeah?
George B. Thomas:Yeah. So okay. Two things. One, on once for the internal person, I'm sorry. There's no excuse.
George B. Thomas:And I'm I'm Yep. No. Yeah. I'm I'm gonna die on that hill. But as for externally, there's one aspect of the messaging, delivery that I touched on but didn't really, dive into was that not everyone got it.
George B. Thomas:One of the things that, I know that we, are doing is clamping down on information that goes out, because there have been too many people with loose lips not respecting the confidentiality agreement. And, and and and it's like it's not like like we don't know who's doing it. It's just that there are certain things that we just cannot afford to get out, until, you know, we're ready, especially, like, you know, you have people snooping around. There are people that will literally go up to partners and ask them about it just so they can speculate on the market. And it's just it's it's it's sad, but that's what we're dealing with.
George B. Thomas:So those are the things that we have to balance. So we have to balance, you know, delivering, this quality education. But at the same time, you know, we we can't let the cat out of the bag. And and and and and it's something that we've we've dealt, like the joke at partner day when it was like, you know, what's the one thing everybody has in common? You all signed a confidentiality agreement.
George B. Thomas:Stop taking photos of the dang slideshow, man.
George B. Thomas:Yeah.
George B. Thomas:Like What
Liz Moorhead:if I wanna hang them up later in my parlor?
George B. Thomas:Yeah. No.
George B. Thomas:Well, there was a a a slide of more
Liz Moorhead:You're welcome, Max.
George B. Thomas:Like, full face. So that one, absolutely. If you want me and the kangaroo in my office on your wall, I'm all
Liz Moorhead:%. Yeah. See, Max has a soundboard. I my mouth is my own soundboard.
George B. Thomas:When when I, sit on my veranda, I wanna see Devin in his, hat from
Liz Moorhead:Near the Davenport?
George B. Thomas:Near the Davenport. I know what to get you for Christmas. So here's the thing. Yeah. There you go.
George B. Thomas:So so so here's the thing. A couple takeaways for everybody as we close this bad boy out. Because, Liz, that's where we're at. Right? Closing this bad boy out.
Liz Moorhead:We literally I was so I just wanna throw this out to the audience. When I asked this last question, like, ma'am, we're gonna come in under. We did a really great we have been on this one last question. For a while. Yes, George.
Liz Moorhead:Take us home, buddy.
George B. Thomas:Couple things that we should have learned this episode. One, loose lips sinks ships. Knock it off, partners. Jiminy, Christmas. Two, don't listen to Max.
George B. Thomas:Release all the betas that you wanna release because I sign up for every single one of them, HubSpot. Number two, this, label of my red, breasts, has not been cracked or opened, but it sure did make for great TV. My water bottle's empty, and, man, I gots to pee.
Liz Moorhead:Jeezers.
George B. Thomas:Okay, hub heroes. We've reached the end of another episode. Will Lord Lack continue to loom over the community, or will we be able to defeat him in the next episode of the Hub Heroes podcast? Make sure you tune in and find out in the next episode. Make sure you head over to the hubheroes.com to get the latest episodes and become part of the league of heroes.
George B. Thomas:FYI, if you're part of the league of heroes, you'll get the show notes right in your inbox, and they come with some hidden power up potential as well. Make sure you share this podcast with a friend. Leave a review if you like what you're listening to, and use the hashtag, hashtag hub euros podcast on any of the socials, and let us know what strategy conversation you'd like to listen into next. Until next time, when we meet and combine our forces, remember to be a happy, helpful, humble human, and, of course, always be looking for a way to be someone's hero.