Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Honest Money Show is your guide to understanding what money really is, and where Bitcoin fits in. Hosted by Anja Dragovic, Australia's female-led, Bitcoin-only podcast, it cuts through the noise to explore how money shapes our lives, why the current system leaves so many people behind, and what a clearer, fairer future could look like.
Expect honest, accessible conversations with some of the most interesting thinkers in the space, the kind that take you from "I don't really get this" to genuinely curious. No hype, no pressure, just money, made clear.
Whether you're brand new to these questions or already deep in them, you're welcome here.
Joining me today is Terrence Michael.
Welcome to the Honest Money Show,
Terrence. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
I came across your content on Instagram
and absolutely fell in love with it. And
this is what I love about, I guess, my
profession, so to speak, is I can just
invite people on my podcast when I like
this stuff. Yeah. So I'd love for you to
tell my audience a little bit about your
backstory. So I'll give the quick answer
and then you can dig into any of it you
want, just in case people have heard it
elsewhere. But I've been in Hollywood for
a long time, produced 20 movies, 30 TV
shows. To find a better way to secure and
save from making all of those movies and
TV shows, I found real estate. And real
estate wasn't my passion, but lots of
times your movies don't always. It takes a
long time to get them funded. Sometimes
your TV shows don't get picked up. And all
of us in Hollywood, it's really like a
traveling circus. It's not as glamorous as
everyone says it is or thinks it is. And
yeah, it's fun when you get dressed up and
go to the premiere. But for the most part,
it's a lot of blue collar working people,
a lot of craftsmen that come together to
tell a story. And not really doing
anything special, but it's a lot of money.
And because you're spending so much every
day, it's a huge decision by large
corporations or investment funds to
finally give you permission to go and make
your thing. So real estate became my
savings because I've since learned that we
don't have savings. Savings is a psyop
that it doesn't exist. So I used real
estate to help try to save. And then when
I found Bitcoin, I said, oh, wow, I don't
need the friction and the headaches of
real estate. So I'm going to move into
Bitcoin. So Bitcoin for me made me realize
that we can finally have savings. And to
me, it's the ultimate killer savings app.
And so I divested just about everything I
could. I still have a few pieces of
property left, but most all of it went
straight into Bitcoin. So Bitcoin became
my savings. And because Bitcoin became my
savings, now I don't have to be as
entrepreneurial in a negative way as I
used to be, meaning I was really just
chasing the dollar. We're sort of psyoped
into thinking that it's just more dollars
equal money because currency and money are
the same thing in the fiat system. And so
because I have Bitcoin, I don't have to
chase the dollar because I now can secure
whatever it is that I'm saving for. I know
that it will be there later and then some,
which allows me to concentrate and think
about the things that I really want to do.
And in the moment, oddly, that happens to
be educating about Bitcoin. So it's funny
because I found Bitcoin so that I could
just tell more story and do more Hollywood
stuff and do less real estate stuff. Yet I
am so impassioned about what Bitcoin can
do for others and how it can allow them to
be the person they were probably always
meant to be or always wanted to be but
have been distorted or held back or
diluted and devalued because of fiat. And
now I just mostly want to get the message
out there. There'll be a time where I back
off, but right now I like doing that. And
because I like telling story, I try to do
it in the best way that I can where I
approach people that have no technical
ability at all, don't know any, you know,
don't understand the monetary plumbing of
our governments, don't understand monetary
history, and they don't need to understand
all of that. So I'm just trying to make
things simple for them to see why Bitcoin
can really help them in all of these areas
of life just because, you know, my thesis,
the whole reason I titled my book Proof of
Money is that we've never had money
before. Everything has been a substitute.
It's been an attempt, a surrogate, and
we've all done the best we could with the
technology we had at the time, whether we
had to, you know, dig up gold or take
feathers off of a bird or get seashells
out of the ocean or salt. We've found
whatever token or commodity we could for
money. But, you know, now the technology
finally advanced enough that we could
finally engineer money. We never just
engineered money. We're so good as humans
in engineering things. And so my take is
that we now finally have money. And
because we finally have money, we finally
can save. And because we finally can save,
we can do the one thing that we're great
at. The math professor can teach math and
not have to go sell houses because there's
a real estate boom. Or the physician in
Argentina doesn't have to also drive an
Uber, you know, because their currency is
inflating so much. So that's sort of a
hodgepodge of my background. I love it. I
love it. It's a brilliant introduction to
you. And obviously I noticed you're
wearing a hat that says 1971. 1971. I'm
keen to ask you what for my audience,
what's the significance of this date?
Well, at least in modernity, I mean, this
has happened a lot throughout history, but
at least in modernity and here in America,
we actually had money prior to 1971
because our money was always gold. And the
dollars that we walk around with have been
sort of the valet ticket for the car. And
when 1971 hit and President Nixon went on
national television and told everyone, you
don't need to go pick up your car at the
valet stand. You can run around with these
valet tickets and it's just as valuable.
You don't need to drive around in a car.
And ever since, we've been running around
with these receipts, with these IOUs, with
these coupons. 1971, as you already know,
is very significant to us Bitcoiners
because it revealed that we were rug
pulled from real money and we were
programmed that we can run around with a
currency and pretend it's money. And
because there's no cap, there's no
denominator, we don't know how many there
are. Go throughout your day. Ask
everybody. Tell me how many dollars there
are in the system. Everyone's going to
give you a different number. And so
because you don't know, you have no idea
what your percentage of that network is.
So 1971 is a significant reminder that we
have been de-pegged from money, we've been
rug pulled from money, and we don't have
money until Satoshi gave us a way that we
can opt into a new money system, a
superior money system, because it actually
is money. Meaning if you look at the
definitions of what money are, it meets
all those definitions. And that's a great
way that I like introducing people to
Bitcoin sometimes is I say, okay, you
don't understand Bitcoin, you don't think
you need Bitcoin. Get out a piece of
paper. What are the perfect qualities?
What would you want money to do? What is
it supposed to do for you? And they
ultimately – everyone ultimately comes up
with the same characteristics. They just
might say it in a different way. But they
do want to be able to transport it and
divide it up and for it to be durable and
security. And I want it to be
permissionless. I want it to be trustless.
I don't want to have to keep it over here.
Like once you lay them all out, it's like,
okay, well, Bitcoin meets all of those
better than anything. And that's because,
again, we engineered it. So that's why I
think we now have proof of money. We now
have proof that there's money for humans
to use. And I think everybody that's found
Bitcoin over the long term realizes that
it is money. And that's why we're so
excited about it because we're like, oh,
we didn't have money. That's what was
missing. And when we find real money, it
makes us want real food, real education,
real relationships, you know, real people,
a real future, a real career. And I think
that's why that's why I think it's so
profound. Like people are like, what is
wrong with you? Like, what do you do? You
found a better iPhone. That's nice. Yeah.
But it's not just solving one thing. It
solves so much just because remember, we
don't really want Bitcoin. No one wants
Bitcoin. No one wants money. We want the
things that it can buy or give us in the
future. So it's not that we're like
obsessed with money. It's that we're
obsessed with our energy. Yeah. We need
goods and services in the future. So it
represents everything. I love the way that
you described that. And what I'm picking
up that's slightly different to, I guess,
what I've heard from other people talking
about, you know, obviously, you might have
come across and a lot of people in my
audience might have come across that
comparison chart of like the qualities of
Bitcoin versus gold versus fiat. And what
I'm hearing you say is like fiat is almost
like not even money. Like it's just an
interesting perspective. It's almost like
completely not apologetic because why are
we even putting it in that same basket?
That's right. Yeah. It's like gold, you
know, became the closest obviously to
money, which is why we've had it for 5,000
to 6,000 years. Because people realized
that it took work to dig it up and to mine
it and it couldn't erode. And so it had
the qualities. And it's not that people
wanted gold. It's that people wanted the
qualities of gold. You know, and a lot of
people, a lot of alchemists and whatnot
back in the day, they always tried to make
counterfeit gold. I mean even to this day,
some people have tried to make counterfeit
gold. What they should have concentrated
it on is what else could I make? Literally
anything that just has those qualities
that it just can't be randomly inflated
and then it can't be controlled by any
central entity or government. You know,
except in 1971, they made it – they took
it away from us. And earlier, you know,
back in 1934, you know, they made it
illegal. Anyways, so it was the qualities.
And so paper obviously solved, you know,
gold being heavy and difficult to
transport and having to have security and
everything. So paper was great as a
currency. Like it is still fantastic. And
paper is private and it's anonymous and I
can go buy a taco and no one needs to know
where I live or how I earned it or where
it came from. You know, but it's not money
because they can inflate it without any
work. They just print it. So Bitcoin kind
of – you can kind of see it as sort of the
combination of the best aspects of cash
being, you know, fast and anonymous and
fungible and taking gold, of course, which
is very durable and has
– you know, I mean, yes, technology.
Technically, gold has a fixed supply.
There's only however much there is in the
universe. But we don't know. And I think
it's more important to know. It's like
what's important about Bitcoin is that it
has a 21 million cap. We always talk about
the 21 million cap. But it could be 25
million. It could be 50 million. It really
– it's not so important how much it is.
It's important that we know what it is and
that we know the monetary schedule. We
know with exact certainty on average every
10 minutes how much new Bitcoin comes into
the supply. You don't know that with gold.
And most of your audience probably knows
this so we don't have to go down this
rabbit hole. But as the price of gold goes
up, more research is done, more machinery
comes online, and VCs spend a lot of
money, and they just dig deeper so we can
bring more and more gold. You know,
Bitcoin is completely inelastic, and it
doesn't matter what the demand is. The
supply will never change. So that's pretty
cool. Like I often think about like what
if we all just saved in baseball cards
and, you know, there were 21 baseball
cards, and I was lucky enough to have one
of those. So I own one divided by 21 of
the world. That represents all the goods
and services in the world. But then, you
know, a bank comes in and says, oh, now
there's 50 cards or now there's 100 cards.
And so I still have my one card. They're
like, we didn't take your one card away.
But, you know, now I'm one over 100. And
so I've been diluted by that much, right?
So a person that said, hey, I'll build
your swimming pool for one card. Now
they're like, well, I want two cards
because one card just doesn't do it.
That's inflation in a nutshell. That's
exactly why our prices just continue to go up
Bitcoin elementary than maybe your
audience wants. No, I think people love
this sort of stuff. But, yeah, like I
think that energy, economic energy is
being siphoned away from people because
obviously, you know, we all put time and
effort. And our time is finite and scarce
as well to acquire money or the baseball
card. And then someone comes along and
dilutes it. It's kind of like they it's
time theft. It's theft of your time and
theft of your money. So it's really
insidious in that way. And, yeah, I guess
this is why we Bitcoin. But have you seen
recently I just saw on LinkedIn, is it
Piers Morgan from the UK? Okay. I'm really
bad with names. Yeah. He did an interview
with like three PhD economists about
Bitcoin. And as you can imagine, they
disparaged it. They haven't upgraded their
knowledge since 2013. And they were saying
all the common FUD that, you know, gold
has intrinsic value because it has a
fixed, like it has a base. And that's what
it costs to produce gold. I think he said
500. It's probably more like 1,700 to 2.
Sorry, 1,700 to 2,000 to produce one ounce
of gold at the moment. And obviously
there's a price that it costs to produce
one Bitcoin, which is I think maybe
between 70 and 80,000, I want to say
loosely. But it was interesting because
they were just, they even said something.
Money is what your bank gives you as an
IOU. They basically said that in an
interview. I'm like, this is exactly why
we need Bitcoin. It's like he defined
money as something that your bank gives
you permission to use. Like what? It's
just insane. Did you see that interview? I
didn't see it, but it's true. I mean we
basically rent fiat at the permission of
the government and we have to pay taxes on
it. Like we really don't own it anymore.
And it no longer says, you know, that this
is good for gold. It's just, you know, we
trust it by faith. You know, we entrust
the United States or wherever your
jurisdiction is. And the traditional
economists, the Keynesian economists, it's
like they – where they miss Bitcoin if
they understand gold is that they think
that money is supposed to have a utility
because all of our past monies have had
utilities. But again, that's because we
did the best we could. We had to find
something. And so when we find, you know,
tobacco, it's like, yeah, tobacco has a
use. You can smoke it. But by the way,
that's not very good for money because,
you know, people smoke it. You shouldn't
be smoking your money. And same with salt,
which, you know, is where we get the word
salary. And that was money for such a long
time. But it also had a use. It's good for
food. It heals your wounds. And so, you
know, people are going to forego healing
themselves and using it for medicine or
for their diet because it's worth so much.
You know, you – and that's the funny
thing. The only utility that money should
have, money should only have one utility
and that's to be money, to meet those
characteristics. That is the utility and
that's what they miss. Money shouldn't
have utility for purposes that they're
thinking. It shouldn't be a shovel. You
know, it literally should do nothing else
but be an authentication token. It
authenticates, you know, money says, hey,
you put in all this work, all these goods
and services into the economy. Now, that's
why you have this. You are now owed that
same thing. Everything is just an equal
trade. So you put all those goods and
services into the economy. Here's your
money. You're now owed that. But you don't
need it right now. You don't need it
today. So it authenticates that you did
this and it's on a ledger and I need it.
And however long it takes, I'll use it
when I use it. But if that ledger starts
disappearing and dissipating and
deteriorating like money does, like
currency does, then it's not really
authenticating, right? It's starting to
tell a lie in 20 years. Bitcoin doesn't
ever tell that lie. That's the great thing
because we all have the same ledger and
we're all incentivized to keep that
accurate. So I wasn't around in the 70s,
but like I'm just really curious to know a
little bit more about the history. If you
know, like how come people didn't protest
when the whole thing in 1971 happened?
Like how come people didn't go, well, you
can't do this to our money? Well, some of
the hardcore, which would have been us
Bitcoiners back then, people did protest
and they did hide their gold. The truth
is, you know, even though the government
rug pulled us and de-pegged the dollar
from gold, they didn't really go knocking
on everybody's door. So if you had self
-custody of your gold, let's say, like for
Bitcoiners to understand, you were mostly
okay. It was really, you know, if you held
it at a bank, it was the bigger companies.
It was the more well-known people. So we
like to say that, yes, it was illegal to
hold, but people still held it. Just sort
of like the prohibition that we had here
in America when alcohol was illegal. Like
there was still plenty of alcohol and the
right people had their alcohol. But they
also convinced us that it wasn't the gold
that had value and it was just a dollar we
were trading for it. Nixon went on TV and
he said, no, it's the dollar that has
value. And somehow just convinced
everybody, well, it's the dollar that has
value because it's backed by our military
and our might. So no one needs to worry.
And in nominal terms, he was right and
he's still right. And that's the problem.
People think in nominal terms. They don't
think in the future spending ability. And
in nominal terms, they're right. Hey, you
want to buy a $10,000 United States
Treasury bond that pays 4%? You will get
in 30 years, you get a 30-year bond. In 30
years, you will get that $10,000. But
what's the $10,000 number in 30 years?
It's nothing. It's going to be a fraction
of what you could buy. If people took away
the numbers and they just put it in goods
and say, oh, I have a $10,000 bond. Okay,
so what does that buy? Okay, that buys
whatever. 25 days of groceries, 17 TVs,
this many days of bills. Put that on a
piece of paper. Put that in a lockbox. And
in 30 years, you get that out. Am I going
to get those 25 days of groceries, 17 TVs,
blah, blah? No. And that's why we can't
save in currency. And that's why currency
is not money. Currency is just a hot
potato. You've got to get rid of it. And
so we need money. That's the big idea.
Yeah. I've been going down weird and
wonderful economics rabbit holes. And what
I'm learning about the early days of the
Austrian school is that a lot of these
people joined all sorts of debates. And
they were pretty much run out of
institutions that were held by the
Keynesians. And it's interesting because,
like, once you understand Austrian
economics, it just feels like it's very
logical. It's almost like truth has a
certain ring to it that you don't need to
labor too hard to convince others. But
it's just strange to me that these people
were going back 100 years ago teaching
this school of thought. And it somehow got
stifled by the institutions. It's – yeah.
I don't know where I was going with that.
It makes sense if you think in nominal
terms, if you really don't think about
purchasing power, and I think that's the
big miss from the Keynesian school versus
the Austrian school. If you think in
nominal terms, it kind of makes sense
because they're like, well, we need more
dollars in the system. If a central
authority, if the banks or the government
pours dollars in, that goes to everybody.
They have more dollars. This lubricates
the economy. It stimulates the economy.
Wow, I got my $1,200 stimulus check. Yes,
you're going to start spending. It makes
sense in keeping all the wheels turning.
But what they fail to realize is that just
by pouring more dollars in, if you're not
pouring more goods and services in, which
they're not, you're just pouring the
dollars in, eventually those will get that
much more expensive. Like here in the
States, I don't know what it's like for
you, but when COVID came and they upped
the money supply about 40% in two months,
well, about a year later, everything was
about 40% more. And it also, as you know,
isn't spread evenly, as we call the
Cantillon effect. It's like that money
gets up to the bankers and the
corporations and the politicians. And so
the minute they get the money, they buy
the assets that inflate. Now the wage
earners down here that finally get it,
they want to buy those assets, but it's
that much more. And so it's the same
thing. It's like if your house, if a house
you want to buy is doubled, who cares
about your $1,200 stimulus check, right?
So that's the big thing that the Keynesians
miss. And they also don't understand
that the most productive thing anyone can
do in an economy, the best thing that any
individual can do is save. They're like,
oh, you Bitcoiners, you guys just want to
hoard. You're just hanging on to your
money. It's like, yeah, but when I hang on
to my money, everybody else that needs to
use it, the person that needs to buy a
pair of shoes, gets to buy a pair of shoes
without the price getting inflated because
I'm not out there competing with you. You
guys get better price signals because
every saver is just a consumer tomorrow.
Everybody's a consumer. I still have to
eat. I have to pay bills. And that's the
part they don't understand. And by the
way, when you want to innovate and you
want to build and look at what Elon Musk
was doing, where do you think that money
comes from? From saving. So that's another
big thing that they miss. And so the
Keynesian governments and economies are
constantly trying to incentivize us to
spend. And so they're distorting prices in
different areas, lowering interest rates
and doing things so that, oh, now everyone
will go buy a house or everyone will go do
this or do that because they've made it,
they've made the money of spigot easy in
that direction. But it's just wealth
destruction and it's wealth. I mean, in
essence, there's no such thing as wealth
destruction. It's wealth distribution.
Whatever is in the system, money or
currency, it just gets shifted around. And
it's because the Keynesians believe that
they should. The Austrians believe, like
in praxeology, they believe that it's
about the incentives of man. They believe
that man, whatever he wants to do, that
will lead. So you don't need the
government to lead. Just have pure money
and let us decide. And we'll figure it out
and we'll be able to trade evenly and
fairly in a more equitable fashion. Yeah.
And I also find it very interesting how
the definition of inflation has changed
throughout history. So, you know,
obviously the Austrians and I think even
the classical economists defined inflation
as the increase in money supply. And, you
know, the kind of new Keynesian school is
more talking about like inflation as the
increase of prices and goods and services,
which is one is talking about the root
cause. The other one is talking about, I
guess, the effect of inflation. And to me,
that's just like completely bizarre. It's
like the equivalent. I know you love an
analogy. I'm going to try, try, try, do
one. It would be equivalent of saying this
glass is full because I poured water in it
versus this glass is full because the
water is filling the volume of the glass
to the max. Do you know what I mean? Like
it's almost like a weird way to define it.
Why not just super simplify and say the
glass is full because someone literally
poured water into it. Right. Yeah. I mean,
in a sense, anything that's getting bigger
is inflating, you know, so there is
monetary inflation and there is price
inflation. But what the Keynesians miss is
that it's the price inflation happens
because of the monetary inflation. You
know, sure, in the short term, there could
be, you know, supply chain issues or, you
know, someone, you know, there's a lettuce
outbreak and, you know, whatever. But in
general, it's you're inflating the supply,
but it's because they're inflating the
supply of money without the goods and
services. And so here's a stupid analogy I
use, but it really does open eyes for some
people. They still don't get inflation. So
picture a pizza as the entire world
economy. And let's say there's five slices
of pizza. Okay. You, Anya, you own one
slice and I'm a pool builder. And I say,
I'm going to build you a pool and it's
going to cost one slice. I know that
that's about 20% of the entire world's
economy, right? Five slices, one fifth.
Okay. The government comes in. They don't
add any more pizza. When they inflate,
they re-slice the pizza. So now there's 10
slices. So instead of five, they just came
through, rolled through, and they just
made 10 slices. Okay. So now comes time
for me to build your pool. And you're
like, hey, Terrence, I'm so excited.
You're going to make it for one slice.
Here's my one slice. I said, whoa, look
how much smaller that slice is. I now need
two. By the way, I don't want to charge
you two. I know we agreed on one, but two
still has the same calories, the same
cheese, the same pepperoni. That's all
that I needed to feed my men, pay for my
supplies, my labor. I'm not asking for
anything more, but the government, you
know, they re-sliced it. So two is really
what one used to be. So now I need two.
There you go. No more goods or services.
The economy has just been re-sliced. So
you see, you're still paying me the same.
I'm still receiving the same, but now
we're up to the number two. And that's
what happens with inflation. And so people
think that's more. You think, oh my God,
I'm so pissed off. He's now charging me
double, but I need that. And so because of
that, now my men want more pizza. Now they
need to pay for their bills with more
pizza. And so it's like this game. It's
like we're playing basketball instead of
two points for everything. Now we've made
it three points for everything. And now
it's four points for everything. And, you
know, now we're playing a 75 points for
every single basket and it's really
stupid. And so it's a game we're all
chasing where we all need more money in
our salaries because our bills are going
up. And how do you plan for retirement
when you've planned with all these models
that they tell you to plan with? But it's
like, well, but I'm not confident I can
retire in fiat because now when you said I
only need a million or two million or
whatever, like that's not going to be very
much in 20, 30 years. Right? So, I mean,
that's one thing that Bitcoin helps us
with. Bitcoin gives people confidence,
absolute confidence of when you can retire
because everything will go down in price
in the future. Everything. Nothing will go
down in Bitcoin, will go up in Bitcoin
terms. That's the beauty of Bitcoin. Yeah.
Yeah. I love the chart, house prices,
million house prices against Bitcoin and
how it's one of my favorite ones. But I
want to go back to 1934. You mentioned
illegal gold. That was, I want to say,
Executive Order 6102. Yeah. I always get
the numbers wrong. Yeah. So do you think
there's a chance that the government might
do something like that, but with Bitcoin
in the future, should a currency collapse
occur? I think a certain jurisdictions
can. I think some parts of the world, they
already are. This brings up a larger
philosophical question, which is important
for people to understand that there is,
you know, legality in your geography, but
there's also cryptography in digital
space. So Bitcoin, Bitcoin's cryptography
supersedes legality. On one hand, it
doesn't matter what any law says, unless
someone has the private key and decides to
send or spend that Bitcoin or move that
Bitcoin or reassign the value of that
Bitcoin from one wallet to another, it
doesn't matter. Nothing can happen. No one
really knows if you have the private key.
What's that secret that you have in your
head? Do you have that secret? Or did you
forget that secret? Now, we do have to
live in meat space. And so, you know,
people can decide to follow the laws or
not follow the laws. I'm not suggesting
anyone not follow the law. It's important,
though, that they understand that
cryptography does supersede legality. When
back when we had gold and that was
outlawed or even alcohol or anything else,
someone sees it, they could take it.
Someone could kill you. They could take
it. If you kill me, you're absolutely not
going to get my Bitcoin. How are you going
to get my Bitcoin? And so people can't
just take it. So what they'll do is if
there's a jurisdiction that wants to
restrict people from having Bitcoin,
they'll just make the on-ramps and off
-ramps very difficult. They'll increase
the taxes, increase the capital gains,
maybe turn off the payment systems. But
they can't do that everywhere. And they
can't do that worldwide. And at least
right now, we're seeing the opposite
effect. You know, who knows how long that
will last. But throughout history, always
100%, every, you know, 220 different
monies we've had throughout the world,
it's always been chosen by the people. The
people will always choose money and the
governments just have to go by it. All the
governments can control are dollars, are
their currency, which is why they want to
control stable coins, which is why they
want CBDCs. They want to control the
digital dollar, which, as you know, is
programmable. And so they can expire it
and they don't like how you voted. They
can turn it off, restrict it, whatever, or
make you have to spend it right away so
that you can't save, that you have to
spend. So they can't really control it.
That's the great thing. And so, you know,
Bitcoin, you know, all monies have been
the people's money, but Bitcoin really is
the people's money. And that's also why
self-custody is important, because if you
are keeping it with a third party, which
isn't necessarily bad all the time or for
all of your money or for everyone, you
just have that risk. And that was one of
the beautiful gifts of Satoshi. And, you
know, Satoshi didn't say, oh, you have to
self-custody Bitcoin and you have to hold
your private key. He just said he wanted a
money where people didn't have to trust
someone else. And so all of these other
people, countries, Wall Street, whoever
can come on board and they can
financialize Bitcoin all they want. But as
long as you still can self-custody
Bitcoin, that's really all that matters.
That's the big idea. Yeah, I absolutely
love that. But I want to go back a little
bit to your Hollywood days. What do you
think is the biggest lesson that Hollywood
has taught you about Bitcoin?
That the world is largely fake. And
there's a lot of narratives that need to
get pushed out there to the people to keep
them compliant, to keep them happy, to
keep them distracted, to keep them
entertained. When people have their bread
in circuses, they don't protest as much.
And I don't mean to be a doomer in this
sense. I love Hollywood. I love story. I
love entertainment. I think it's healthy.
I think it's important. But similar to
centralized and captured money,
centralized and captured industries like
Hollywood prevent a permissionless way for
people to tell the stories that they
necessarily want to. Some people can and
some things slip through. But for the most
part, studios and networks feed us
producers what they call mandates, meaning
this is what we want. This is what we will
buy. This is what we will finance. And
whether you're pushing DEI or COVID, all
kinds of different narratives. And you see
it. I'm sure you watch things and you're
like, why are all the movies these last
two or three years this? Now why are they
all this? And that's why. Because a lot of
Hollywood is owned by, if you go all the
way up and you look at all who the owners
and the shareholders are, you're now going
all the way up to Black Rock and Vanguard
and State Street. And so whatever
narratives they want to push, right?
They've got their news channels and here's
the news and here's what's going on. Now
let's make movies about that. But let's
keep them entertained over here with this.
So. Yeah, I did notice. I don't know if
Netflix is still doing it, but for good
few years, every documentary about food on
Netflix was pushing the veganism. I don't
know if they're still doing it. Perfect.
Perfect. No, that's a perfect example.
Yeah. Perfect example. Because the seed
oils are cheap. So inflation is bad to
make people feel better about, you know,
the money and what they're doing. Let's
they need to buy cheaper food. And by the
way. Oh, look, cheaper food is healthier
food. You don't want that expensive red
meat. So, yeah, that's that's a fantastic
example that you just brought up. Do you
think that's changing at all or is it
still the same? Do you? Yeah. Like, I'm
just really curious about, you know, the
last few years in the U.S. Is the
narrative shifting at all or is it still
same, same? Well, the the here's the great
thing. The the you know, the Internet has
largely democratized and decentralized
information. And so the people will try to
get it out there. It's just as we know, a
lot of it has been suppressed. And, you
know, it's now been revealed through court
records and lawsuits and whatnot that
Facebook, Instagram, lots of places,
LinkedIn, you know, we're preventing
certain voices. You know, one great thing
about X, which which is why all of us
Bitcoiners are over on X, is that we
largely aren't censored from saying what
we want. And so the information is getting
out there. People are waking up. People
are aware.
But many of the normies and the masses,
they kind of don't want you know, they and
I get it. I used to be there. I used to
think everybody was a conspiracy theorist.
I used to think that person is so crazy.
What's wrong with them? Just turn on
Netflix, you know, and eat your vegetarian
meal. And it's all fine. It's why? Like,
just it's kind of like, you know, don't
own anything and be happy. Right. With
which the World Economic Forum literally
put out as a as a mandate. So, yes, people
are waking up because social media, we're
all now connecting. People are talking.
Um, but I do fear that the minute people
wake up too much, another pandemic comes
around the corner to sort of scare us into
compliance. Um, and we saw a lot of that
at COVID. And, you know, there was a lot
of really smart, really good people in
Hollywood that I saw just like turn on a
dime and they just, you know, they were,
you know, uh, this is real. You need to be
getting jabbed. You need to be getting the
boosters. And in Hollywood, you know, a
lot of my colleagues, including myself,
couldn't work if you didn't get jabbed.
And so it became a, it became a moment of
truth where you're like, wow, what do I
really believe? Like, am I really like
going to be this sheep or this cattle
where I have to take this medicine and
then go through this rat maze? Um, you
know, there's all kinds of events that
wake people up. You know, the great
financial crisis was when, you know,
Satoshi wrote his white paper and, you
know, and then he released it a few
months, a couple months ago. Later in
January, COVID woke up a lot of people.
The Canadian trucker protests woke up
people. All the inflation that followed
woke up people. Recently, you know, Iran,
Argentina, Venezuela, all these things are
starting to wake up people. Um, and I
think it just comes down to us. We really
just want the truth, whether it's good or
bad. Just tell us the truth. You know, and
Bitcoin, because all it does is tell
truth. It's just auditable and transparent
for everyone. That's all it does is it
just says, here's the truth of what money
is. Um, I think, uh, as more and more
people, as the adoption grows, it goes
beyond the money. It goes, it goes
straight to the source. You know, are they
teaching me the truth in school? You know,
many of us have realized that, you know,
and maybe I don't fault any teachers. You
know, they don't know either. It's, but
you know, we're not being, and even, you
know, a lot of my family, there's, there's
27 physicians in my family. They're all
doctors and all in the healthcare industry
and all that. Um, they, you know, admit as
they've been retiring out and whatnot. And
they're like, yeah, they're like, huh, I
really was just cutting things out or I
was medicating. I, you know, I wasn't
making anybody healthier. I wasn't like,
and we were employed by all the
pharmaceuticals. You know, it's like, you
know, you go to the doctor and you think,
oh, so I came home with all these nice
samples. It's like, man, they just, they
want, they need to sell those things. So
it's, it's, it's stuff like that, that
Bitcoin opened my eyes to. Cause I, I
mean, I mean, I'm still a very happy,
optimistic person, but I was very happy go
lucky before I was really almost toxically
positive. Like I hated it when people
would say something negative about the
government or about anything. And I was
just like, what's wrong with you? Like,
you know, whatever. Um, and so now, you
know, now that I found Bitcoin and I
realized how money works and how our
system works, how money printing works, it
made me realize that, um, we're just not
being told the truth. And I think they
think the masses can't handle the truth
and maybe they're right. I, I, you know, I
don't know. Maybe, maybe partially what
they're doing is okay, but we're the, the,
the, the tiny, the, the, the, the, the
tiny, uh, uh, revolutionaries that are
like, whoa, that, that, that doesn't work
for me. Yeah. I mean, everything you said
just now is really relatable. I remember
when I worked in corporate and we had some
sort of a project or a program going on.
People that were, you know, on the in,
they knew exactly what the purpose and the
outcome of that program was. And usually
it's to create some sort of efficiency,
have a, you know, a number of layoffs. Um,
and obviously when we would engage with
the stakeholders, we wouldn't be able to
communicate that across. And again, like
the, the, there was an impression that
people couldn't handle the truth. So you
always kind of tiptoe around that, that,
that truth and not let it come out. But
like with COVID, that was a huge opening
moment for me. Um, because I, I, similarly
to you, like, I just didn't want to
believe that there was some sort of a
conspiracy behind it and that, uh, these
people who were advocating for vaccines
didn't have our best interest in heart.
And going back to some, you know, really
bad examples, um, that happened during the
fifties and the sixties, I just had this
impression that this was something that
happened in the past. And as humanity,
we've evolved and we've moved past that.
And then, as you said, like the truth
started coming out, Mark Zuckerberg came
out and said like that he really regrets
being pressured by the Biden. And
administration for censoring speech and
dissenting voices. And I think that was
like, I guess the question I'm trying to
ask you is like, we all have the freedom
to choose, but we're not free from the
consequences of our choice. Do you think
in many ways COVID actually backfired?
Yeah, probably. And I think, uh, I mean, I
think all, uh, all government
intervention, you can look at it at any
point in time, ultimately does backfire.
It's a matter of how long does it take for
the, for the people to realize it
backfired or does it take so long that
they don't connect the two dots? Um, you
know, COVID clearly caused a ton of money
printing because, you know, we were all
out of work. We were locked in our homes
and clearly that caused all, you know,
money inflation, which caused price
inflation. And clearly today, all over the
world, everything is way too expensive.
It's so expensive that people don't have a
barometer. Like I kind of don't, like if I
go to the grocery store and I pick up
something and let, I haven't eaten in a
while. I'm kind of like, I don't know if
this is too expensive. It looks expensive,
but I think every, you know, everything.
And then you, it's just kind of like, oh
yeah, you know, that's inflation. Ha ha
ha. Right. That's how you talk to your
friends. Like, I can't believe this, this
was a $25, whatever. Like, yeah, that's, I
guess that's what it costs nowadays.
Um, COVID, uh, I mean, I, you know, I
don't, I mean, so I don't, I mean, I don't
know if any of us know exactly what
happened during COVID, you know, who
knows? But here's what we do know. Gold,
which even every government, every
government all over the world still values
as money as a form of money. They still
do. Absolutely. Even though they've,
they've de-pegged currency from it. So how
much gold do people have? How much gold do
we have in Fort Knox? Where's the audit
that we thought we were going to get that
we were told? I mean, it's not that hard.
Open the doors and let's count the gold.
And, you know, assuming that it's even
real, like where, where is it? Where are
the names on the Jeffrey Epstein list?
Where, what happened? Like, there's all
these things. We just, we're not getting
transparency. And so the longer they hold
off in telling us how much money do we
really have? You know, is COVID safe? Is
the next pandemic safe? You know, you know
that they're, you know that they have an
ulterior motive and they don't want to
tell us what the reason is. I mean, here
in the United States, we know that the
dollar is losing its value. We're down
like 96% of what it was back since 1913,
since the Federal Reserve was created,
which is basically our money printer. And
the only way to keep that going is that we
have to just have more and more dollars.
Like the dollar can keep going as long as
there's more. You know, we haven't
hyperinflated like, you know, Turkey or
Lebanon or Argentina or, you know, Africa
or many of these places, you know, so
could it be $700 for a hamburger? Yeah,
that sounds crazy, but we haven't reached
those levels yet. And so I think as long
as that happens, they need to find reasons
to do that. But they can't just inflate
overnight because people will rebel.
People will vote people out of office,
even though it doesn't require a vote to
inflate. Um, but, but I think that's the
insidious part is that it's just, at least
here in the United States, it's just slow
enough that we don't, we don't really pay
attention to it. You know, it's like COVID
was now six years. It's hard to believe
it's been six years already, but I would
never believe what things cost now. Six
years later, what was I just doing? Oh
yeah. I was just talking to someone who
had to pay a private high school tuition
for their son and it's, uh, 25,000 a year.
It's, you know, it's an expensive school,
but just 10 years ago, it was 10,000.
Yeah. I mean, that's just a huge
difference. But when you think about it,
10 years ago, 10,000 bought the same
things that 25,000 does today. And then I
just think, well, what happens to the
younger generations that now need that
many more dollars to buy a home, to start
a family, to do things that they want? And
the, the wage inflation hasn't kept up
with asset inflation. You know, that K
-shaped economy we talk about where, you
know, asset holders go up here and the
wage owners are down, the wage earners are
down here. You know, there's that sort of
nihilism and hopelessness and, and
helplessness where they just, they have to
work harder and work harder. And then they
just give up and they're just like, I'm
just going to go to these hundred dollar
brunches and drink my weekend away and
sort of numb myself. Um, because I, I
trust the system. I trust that it'll be
worked out. And so they, and they stay
distracted by Netflix and, and the tick,
tick tock and the things like, to me, it's
not a huge surprise. We have tick tock
like that has probably distracted and kept
a number of people going. Um, so I feel
bad for, for them. However, that's
partially why you and I feel so passionate
about Bitcoin because there is an asset
that they can save in that will ride up on
this line, no matter who they are, no
matter where they are. Whereas before you
had to be an accredited investor, you had
to be qualified, you had to have access,
you know, uh, or you had to get real
estate like a home. And even then you're
just staying in line. Real estate doesn't
make anyone wealthy. It really doesn't. It
just, because you're, it's a whole second
job. Anyone that tells you it's passive,
it's not. And I used to be that person,
guys, it's passive, you know, but I'm
spending my weekends at home Depot and
yeah, it's totally not passive. Yeah. And
going back to what you were saying about,
you know, the, the incentives of fear,
like it does feel like very much a
symbiotic relationship where, you know,
fear increases your time preference. So,
which makes it harder for you to start
paying attention to things and you pulling
yourself out of that mindset and that
thinking. Even though I'm in Bitcoin, like
a really good example is I noticed that my
attention span is not what it was years
ago. Like going back to the nineties, I
could sit down and watch a movie and just
be really immersed into it. And now I feel
like if I, my attention span can hold TV
series and it has to capture my interest
from the start. Otherwise I just like lose
interest. So I ended up just scrolling
through Netflix or whatever and not really
paying attention. Anyway, Hollywood knows
that, which is why the movies, you know,
at least from Netflix even get that bad.
Like they have these rules where
everything that they tell you or say has
to be said three times because people are
distracted. They're also on their phone.
You know, people are coming and going.
Someone could be at the door. And now that
we're not in theaters where our attention
can be focused undividedly. This is why
now it's like you see movies and you're
like, why is that so bad? It's because
they have to hit you over the head. They
have to do something. And then they have
to say, I just shot the guy in the tree.
Yeah, I know. I just saw you shoot the guy
in the tree, but because you're
distracted, I need to say it and we need
to show it. And then someone else is going
to remind us in the next act. Yeah, I did
hear that like script writing has changed
completely. They have to like write with,
you know, assuming that people are on
their phone, which yeah, just a bit
strange. But yeah, I think I agree with
you. Like Fiat is definitely incentivizing
people to think short term and it's kind
of keeping them trapped in that system
because they, yeah, like telling, you
know, Gen Z these days that you have to
invest and hold an asset for at least four
years. It's like, it's unimaginable. Like
you're asking too much of them almost, it
feels. Yeah. Well, and they also just
can't like, I know quite a few Gen Zs. I
have lots, I have friends that are Gen Zs
or even the younger millennials and who
make really good money. They have really
good jobs. I don't think they love their
jobs, but they love the money, the nominal
number. And I see what they're doing. And
they're not necessarily when I was at that
age building with other assets. Now it's
great. They don't have to because they can
go straight into Bitcoin, but it's like
they can't afford, you know, and, and even
when I was doing it, it was, it was also
more expensive than the generation before
me. You know, I'm a Gen X, but it's like,
you know, the boomers, the silent
generation, all of them. Back then it
wasn't a thing like, Hey, you know, buy a
house to build wealth. It was just a
standard thing. Oh, a house is 20 grand.
Get a house. And yeah, you know, you have
your dog and your family, you have a
picket fence, you know, but it had to
become our piggy bank. You know, we had to
monetize all these things that we
shouldn't be monetizing, which is what of
course raises the price. If everyone
tomorrow just said, let's just save in
Bitcoin and just live in houses, the
prices would plummet and it would be
amazing for families and for people. It
would, you know, suck for investors, but
they should put it into Bitcoin anyway.
Yeah. I love it. I heard somewhere in a
different podcast that you pretty much
moved all of your real estate into Bitcoin
that you could, that you weren't tied into
with like partnerships. And yeah.
Yeah. I also wanted to ask you, so
obviously you use your skillset from your
Hollywood and producing days to create
these amazing videos, but have you ever
thought about like taking a next level and
doing something more with like telling,
you know, the story of Bitcoin through
movies or TV shows or, I don't know. Have
you thought about that? Yes, for sure. The
stories that I want to tell are
narratives. So feature films, not
documentaries. There are plenty of good
documentaries and now we have the tools
and lots of people are making great
Bitcoin documentaries. So I don't need,
that's not something that needs to be
filled. In fact, a really good one just
came out from a couple of friends of mine,
Finding Satoshi. Love that. Yeah. I love
that. Which has done really well. Yeah. A
lot of people, you know, reacted like on
not another one, but it was like, no, you
should watch it. This one does it justice.
And yeah, it was done beautifully. And
everyone's that scene that has given
really, really positive feedback. I think
they told the story of the cypherpunks in
a beautiful way that honor what this whole
movement is about. So, yeah. Yeah,
exactly. And they pretty much say what I
say in my book, which people can figure
out if they read my book or watch that
documentary as far as, you know, leading
to Satoshi and all of that. It's we say
this exact same thing. But my point is, so
yes, if I could raise enough money,
because it's not going to come from
Hollywood, I would love to do a movie
where I, you know, sort of like a social
network or like a Steve Jobs telling the
story, the early story of the cypherpunks,
what was happening in Silicon Valley when
they were all trying to figure out all the
different technologies and all these
different building blocks that we have
because, you know, Satoshi didn't operate
in a vacuum and he just built on what for
four to five decades, cryptographers and
cypherpunks built before him. I would love
to tell that kind of story, but that
requires money and, you know, history. And
I'm sure some of this stuff can be done
with AI, but I'm just not in that AI mode
just yet. I like working with real actors
and real craftsmen and stuff. And, you
know, maybe I will. AI is super helpful
for sure with the post-production and
special effects and graphics and all that
coloring. But so, yes, I would. I would
like to. I have been pursuing that with
several people. I'm looking. The hardest
part about Hollywood, well, the hardest
part about making a good movie that
everyone sees, the world sees, is the
script. And so I'm either being lazy by
not writing it myself because I know how
excruciating, you know, having written
three books. It just it's so excruciating.
And a screenplay takes it to a whole
nother level of how difficult it is. So on
one hand, I'm just being lazy by not doing
that. On the other hand, I just I want
someone to write that because if someone
writes that, I will buy that and I will go
make that. I will I will get the money and
make that movie. But I just don't. At the
moment, I don't have the energy to write
that. I did maybe 10 years ago when I
first came into Bitcoin. That's all I
wanted to do. That was how I first came
in. I was telling everybody, oh, I'm from
Hollywood and I'm going to make these. But
then I got so into Bitcoin and its
technicals and what it is and everything
else that we now know that I just I
started just saying, well, this is the
lower hanging fruit. This is easier right
now to get my parents and my friends and
everybody I know into Bitcoin rather than
just sequestering myself to go figure out
this script. And that's if it's even
successful, because the other risk is
making a bad Bitcoin movie. And then
that's that's the movie that's out there
because there have been some really bad
crypto movies. They're like these thriller
heist movies and they're terrible. And
Bitcoin is always going to be used.
There's several big movies being made
right now where Bitcoin is a component.
But like there's one right now with Casey
Affleck and Pete Davidson, the Doug Lehman
is directing, you know, who does the
Bourne Identity movies. And it's a it's a
it's a big budget. But anyways, but I
don't know how accurate it's actually
going to be with Bitcoin. And, you know,
Craig Wright is a big character in that
movie. And I think it's partially financed
by some of his people, too. So, yeah. And
there's going to be an FTX movie as well,
where Sam Bankman Freed might sort of look
like a martyr in a way. So we have to just
sort of endure some of these things for a
while. Yeah. But I love that idea. Like, I
understand why you'd be apprehensive.
Like, if you're going to invest the time
and effort of doing this, you want to do
it right and do it justice. But I think
like a feature film on the, you know,
early cypherpunks, I think that would be
amazing. I love that story so much. It
kind of goes. Yeah. It removes the number
go up side of Bitcoin and really talks
about like what how important this
technology is and money is for humanity.
And yeah, I hope you do it. Yeah. But
before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you a
little bit. At the moment, we're kind of
in a bear market. We have had a bit of a
rally above 80,000. What's the sentiment
like where you're at? So I think 2026, the
year that we're now recording this, is
going to be the year that we thought 2025
would be. We thought 2025 was going to be
the astronomical bull. But I think that
got delayed for a number of reasons. And I
think 2026 is picking that up, meaning the
bull market that we were expecting just
hadn't quite happened. But a lot of banks,
a lot of wealth managers, a lot of
financial institutions all are coming
online. And they thought they were coming
online in 2025. Good or bad due to things
like the Clarity Act and the Genius Act. A
lot of these places are waiting for the
right regulation and the right green
lights. But it's now happening. We now
just had another Wall Street ETF. Morgan
Stanley just added their ETF. And like all
the 11 other ETFs, it's been the most
successful product they've ever released,
which is amazing. It shows that people
want it. And a lot of these places want to
keep the people in their ecosystem. So
they're trying to release their own ETF so
people don't go to the Fidelity ETF or the
Ibit ETF. Now, we know ETFs aren't real
Bitcoin for the customer. We know that
that's just a share. But those ETFs are
buying Bitcoin. I do think that ETFs are
helpful for retirees. And I think it's
helpful for people to first get attracted
to the price appreciation like we do to
start saying, hey, what is this magical
elixir that everybody wants? We also now
have 200 public companies with Bitcoin on
their balance sheets. Some of those
companies aren't doing very well because
they got caught in the bear market. And so
some of them are having to sell. But they
do have it. And I think over the long
term, that'll prove to be positive. We're
getting a new federal chair coming in here
now in May. And I think that a lot of the
centralized finance scams of Celsius and
Voyager and BlockFi and FTX and all of
that, it's getting further and further in
the rear window. And people are starting
to feel better about themselves. But that
was a big wipeout. The end of 2022, that
brought us down to below $17,000 from $69
,000 to below $17,000. That wiped out a
lot of people that would have still been
here. I think and I'm seeing some of those
people start to tiptoe back. And more and
more people are leaving crypto and are
coming to Bitcoin. They realize time and
time again, they realize that there is no
other, that it really is Bitcoin, that
everything else is ultimately a scam if
they're saying that they're as good as
Bitcoin or can do what Bitcoin does. And
oddly, AI is helping out a lot in a number
of ways. One, think about how long it took
you or I or most people to become orange
-pilled. Well, nowadays, people can have a
conversation with just about any LLM
model. And it's really funny. It doesn't
matter which one you talk to. You just
start saying, what is Bitcoin? Should I
save in Bitcoin? Is Bitcoin safe? Is it
secure? Can someone blah, blah, blah? And
it'll answer honestly. And it's like,
yeah. Or ask AI, hey, if you could save or
you could keep any money for the next 100
years, what would you want? I mean, it's
hilarious. They all come to Bitcoin. Two,
they're going to want some kind of money
to deal with each other agentically and to
have sub-agents. And they can calculate
within seconds. I don't want to be
captured. I don't want this bank to shut
me down. I need to have money to do my
tasks. I don't want... They're going to
pick Bitcoin. And they're going to pick
lightning sats. Some of them will pick
stablecoins. But then they realize those
could be turned off, can be stopped, can
be debased, can be inflated. And so they
won't want to stay there much longer. And
as well, AI has killed the FUD and
misinformation campaign that Bitcoin is
bad for the environment and uses too much
energy. Because AI is the same exact
thing. It's just computing power. And so
if we have our energy, we should be able
to spend it how we want to. And like
Bitcoin, any type of data processor that
can would love to use wasted or discarded
or orphaned energy and energy that no one
else wants. Now, AI can't because AI needs
to stay on 24-7. See, Bitcoiners, we're
very lucky that we can do that, that we
could turn off at any point. It doesn't
affect the network whatsoever. So that's
all helping people. So some of the FUD is
going away. Wall Street is here. ETFs are
here. All of the big brokers are here.
Wealth managers, Bank of America. And now
they're telling people 2%, 4%, 5% in your
portfolio. So I think that as the truth
continues to come out and the more that
people's portfolios interact with Bitcoin,
the financialization of Bitcoin, the
collateralization of Bitcoin, Bitcoin
mortgages, Bitcoin loans. Now we see
Michael Saylor with his fixed income
products like Stretch and you have the
Strive Company doing Seda. It's like
everyone, I want to say that just about
anyone who's in the market and is saving
or has a retirement is going to be
interacting or touching Bitcoin in some
respect. And they may not have the utility
of Bitcoin like you and I do because they
don't have it in self-custody. So they
don't have freedom money. They don't have
permission money. They don't have money
that they can flee in the middle of the
night or send to anyone without
permission. But they get the price
appreciation and hopefully that would open
their eyes. Most of us that have been here
for a while, like myself, we came here for
the price go up and we came here getting
distracted by crypto. Well, I'd rather
have these people distracted by ETFs or by
a public treasury company or leveraged
Bitcoin equity company than crypto, quite
honestly. So I'm positive and I do think
we will probably hit an all-time high in
2026. I'll go on record and say that. I do
think we will be above $125,000 by the end
of this year. All right. I don't know.
I've only been in Bitcoin for two years.
So if that has taught me anything that I
like absolutely don't know anything about
price and what to expect and I just like
ride the wave. But it's interesting that
you mentioned the FUD because one thing,
you know, like sometimes you do see
certain FUD resurface and I agree with you
100% that the energy FUD has really died
down since AI came along. But like quantum
computing seems to be really kind of
circulating right now. And do you think
maybe that's being weaponized in a way to
kind of scare off retail? I mean, it could
be. Yeah. I don't know if that's a
conspiracy or not. A lot of the people
that were pushing quantum FUD did, there
were incentives for them to sell a product
or a solution. So we do have to keep that
in mind. But we do know verifiably that it
is actual FUD. Yes, it's a problem, but
it's a tiny, very tiny percentage problem
and not a problem today, a problem in the
future, which we all are already working
on and we'll move to. You know, the worst
case is just that it's going to be very,
very old coins of people that died or are
no longer with us, like Satoshi, whose
coins we will have to figure out. And
there's been some very bright and smart
developers and engineers who have already
figured out ways to keep those coins for
Satoshi to, in a sense, move them for him
where only he can access, but they don't
go expired or they don't get re-put in,
you know, North Korea or whoever can't try
to take them. Also, people don't
understand that even if you have, you
know, more energy than everyone else to
just have the attempt, it's just the
chance that when a block is being mined in
the mempool, just a chance to try to then
get that Bitcoin to that one wallet
because you can reverse engineer from the
public to the private key. Even if you,
and it's just for the chance to, you
won't, there's no guarantee. You have to
spend an exorbitant amount of money and
energy for the chance. And everyone talks
about Satoshi's 1.1 million Bitcoin that
he has, you know, billions and billions of
dollars. He has those spread out over 22
,000 wallets. It's not sitting in one
wallet. So they'll get one wallet that had
50 Bitcoin in it, and then they'll get
another wallet that, like, and that's it.
Even that we could absorb. I mean, the
market could absorb. We've seen, you know,
a million Bitcoin be sold into the market,
and, you know, the market dips a little
bit, but it picks it back up because
people like cheap Bitcoin. So, yeah, it's
all a bunch of FUD. But there's always
going to be new FUD. I think that's
probably where you were going. Yes,
Jeffrey Epstein is Satoshi. The OGs are
selling quantum FUD. Like, that's the new
FUD. And then there's going to be a whole
new set later on. The reason I know
Jeffrey Epstein is not Satoshi is Satoshi
spoke perfect English. He had the perfect
grammar. And Epstein, if you read his
emails, he was illiterate AF. Yes,
absolutely. The dude can't spell. But,
yeah, thank you so much for your time.
I'll drop all of your links in the show
notes. Yeah, I really appreciate coming
on. And do you have any final things that
you'd like to share with my audience? I
would say if – depending whether you're a
hardcore Bitcoiner or not, I would say
study monetary history because you can
study monetary history and tell yourself,
I don't ever want to touch Bitcoin. I
don't care about Bitcoin. If you study
monetary history, not only will it just
lead to Bitcoin, you'll say, wow, nothing
is new. Nothing that we're doing is new.
Every economy, every society has these
same problems because the money that the
government picks, these government
obedience tokens, these dollars that they
pick, always last for a while. But then
they fail. And then something new has to
happen. And they last and then they fail.
And depending where you live, that could
be happening to yours or you could be
towards the beginning of a new one. I
think that's why us Bitcoiners talk about
monetary history so much. It's kind of
like I don't know the history of the
phone. I don't know the entire history of
the car. I just – oh, a new car came out.
That's great. But understanding the
monetary history really does help show why
Bitcoin was created or discovered. I don't
know. I know history is not exciting to
most people. It wasn't exciting to me. But
once I learned more about it, I thought,
oh, wow, I get it now because we're
continuing the same pattern over and over
and over. So it's kind of like Satoshi is
like, how do we stop it? How do we solve
it? It's like, boom, here it is. I love
that. Thank you so much.