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The HotelTechInsider podcast interviews the top leaders at the convergence of hotels, travel and technology. Guests include founders, executives, top hoteliers and industry organization leadership. Find all of the episodes at hoteltechreport.com
We said, you know what? We offer you the service. We make sure that all your figures are correct and that we really do revenue management for you, but we will buy the system for you so you get the better rate.
Speaker 2:From Hotel Tech Report, it's Hotel Tech Insider, a show about the future of hotels and the technology that powers them.
Speaker 3:Today, we connect with Michael Buller, a very busy hotelier who, in addition to managing three hotels in Swiss ski destinations, also advises hotels on revenue management and digital transformation. In our conversation, Michael shares one powerful reason to modernize your tech stack. Let's dive in. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Michael. Great to have you on, and I'm looking forward to chatting with you.
Speaker 3:To get started, I would love for you to introduce yourself and tell us about your companies.
Speaker 1:My name is Michael Gurler. I'm the owner and founder of the Sun Hospitality. We have three pillars of our company which are one of them is managing and renting hotels. One of them is helping all the hotels to do the digital transformation. And the third part is about revenue management and remote services, especially about front office and stuff like this.
Speaker 1:So that's where we are. We are based in Switzerland. Funny wise, we're getting more and more contact as well from Germany and Austria, but our focus lies in Switzerland.
Speaker 3:Great. And the hotels that you manage, are those based in Switzerland as well?
Speaker 1:Yes, there are three hotels up in the mountains. One in Arosa, one in Auerpahn, and one in Andermatt. Three ski resorts, of course, which are having as well a lot of people coming up in summer for biking, cycling, and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:And are the hotels full service, limited service, and how many rooms are in those hotels just so we can get a mental picture?
Speaker 1:Three beautiful three star properties between twenty five and forty five rooms. All of them are full service. We have restaurants, but we have a slightly different concept depends on the location. As an example, we're having one hotel up in Narosa, which is mainly focused full service with the reception classic as well the one in pop on. And then we have a call it a little bit my playground, the whole Delberghe deal in Andermak, which is where we try mobile check-in, mobile checkout.
Speaker 1:So the full journey automated. But then again, we have a restaurant on-site where people can enjoy the restaurant, service, but more focused on service like where's the next key station, where can I find the best pass for biking, where can I go for hiking, stuff like this? I want to give them the choice or the possibility, my team members, to focus on that fun stuff, not on the menstruation.
Speaker 3:Well, let's dive right in because I'm curious to learn more about how you're handling mobile check-in and the kind of automated service type of environment that you have at that hotel. So can you walk me through your tech stack?
Speaker 1:So what we work together is we have a Muse as a PMS, which then helps us to manage all the reservation. On top of this, we have LikeMagic. LikeMagic is a Swiss company, which is the full service when it comes to communication, mobile check-in on this space with Buchwrest, I'm not sure if anybody knows them, our company for locks in Germany, which are with codes. Because the property itself is quite old. We couldn't put in a modern lock system with NFC or stuff like this.
Speaker 1:So we focused on locks with codes then which gave us the possibility to change the whole very quickly over to make it full automated. And then, additionally, as we give them the remote services like revenue management and front office or administration, we have Lobby AI, which is a company which is a plug in to your Outlook or Gmail account, which helps you to rewrite or write the emails beforehand, has a connection straight into Muse. So it knows what is the occupancy, what other is surprising, and helps my team actually to write already the offers before they even have to send it. So they can go quickly in, have a look on the email, see, oh, wow, that's everything written, maybe do a little bit of correction, and then off the email goes off it goes. Very automated, and it helped us a lot because I have to say, for the hotel which is now all year round open, we could save up to two days in work because it was everything is now really automated, which helps us a lot to develop as well because we wanna have more hotels in the future.
Speaker 1:So we need to have very smooth tech stack that we can grow quicker.
Speaker 3:Lobby AI sounds very cool. Can you show me the power of including that information from your PMS in an email? I mean, sounds very cool. So I would love to hear how you use it in practice.
Speaker 1:I really have fun with it. First of all, it's all this more like a bit of copilot, which now you can use as well to answer emails. But luckily, it's a lot more because what we had to do in the beginning is we of course, we uploaded our a to cent. A to cent is for us all the information about the hotel. What is the room sizes?
Speaker 1:How are they designed? Which room number is closest to the elevator? Stuff like this. What is the offer from the restaurant? All of that information, we were able to upload it to lobby AI very easily.
Speaker 1:And then as well, we had the integration into Muse or our TMS, whereas one to our Lunchgate, which is our booking portal for restaurant bookings. So it was able actually take all the data about is there still enough rooms for group requests? Is there spaces in the restaurant for dinner and stuff like this? And so that's what how it now starts. First, when an email comes in, let's say, Adrian, you send us an email.
Speaker 1:Could I stay from the December 2 for four nights? It's just coming up for skiing. By the way, would you recommend what is the closest ski lift? Stuff like this. And that takes away the answers, including saying, by the way, yeah, there still is a double room standard and double room superior available to visit that price.
Speaker 1:And then they send you out with including a link where you can confirm the reservation. So, of course, it's in straight web. What we have to say is, well, we have to be careful because you can automate it. So that means, well, if you send it, it will make like this in a chatbot and you get the email back with giving you an offer. And you can imagine that's a little bit creepy.
Speaker 1:We have to be careful. People don't get a little bit of, wow. What comes on there? What is that? Very strange.
Speaker 1:It's it's really normal. So we have to delay it. And at the moment as well, as the system is only now half a year old, we still go through the emails. We check them. We, yes, read them quickly and then send it off.
Speaker 1:But it's really it's very, very helpful. You can imagine it's really quickly. Or even if we get this, an example, a compliment, it writes straight away how to answer it or do some cross selling as well, which is important for me. If somebody sends us a compliment that we, of course, we're very grateful, but tell them as well, by the way, did you know there is another possibility or the lift starts, they're open already on the December 1 this year, blah blah blah, so that we can do additional sellings.
Speaker 3:So it sounds like the tool drafts the message on behalf of your team and then someone manually sends it just so it feels a little bit more natural. Is that right?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. At the moment it does. But in the future, will it sells like a chatbot if it gets but of course, we will delay so it's normal. It's not the feeling of firework goes on. Yes.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And for us, as an example, with that we can actually, before we had one person looking after Ang, which is doing for us the remote reception. She was looking after four workers before. Now with that system, we know already she will be able to double up the services, which is great for our clients. I mean, have our own hotels, but on top of that, we give these services to other hotels.
Speaker 1:And this is great for the hotels because suddenly we are in pricing wise as well. It's price wise is good for the holders as well, whereas for us as well. Absolutely. It gives you the potential to grow.
Speaker 3:So we talked a bit about your PMS communication. Within the guest experience, what other tech do guests interact with? Do you have a hotel app or anything in the room that guests would engage with?
Speaker 1:Yes. We do. That's through LifeMagic, where we have the whole interaction. If that's afterwards over WhatsApp or if it's via email or how they want to communicate with us. And that's very good for us, especially we have we don't have any phones in the rooms.
Speaker 1:We need not even have a TV because Bergidale is recorded as well the Riders Haven, whereas essentially the target group is free riders, bikers, cycles, hikers. So it's all about more the younger generation, which don't need TVs anymore. They need a good Wi Fi. That's the most important thing which we have. And otherwise, everything so and therefore, we give them with QR codes possibility to interact with us.
Speaker 1:As well, what it gave us with this, like magic, us possibility now to open up all year round. Before it was always for us, like, you can imagine up in the ski resorts during May, June or October, November, it's very I mean, you are longer. It's not a lot happening. There's no snow yet or it's not the right weather growth. Therefore, we said, you know, we have to close the hotel, otherwise, just lose money.
Speaker 1:So when we got that system, we just, in the beginning, told our clients, you know, you can stay with us. Everything is automated. We make sure the rooms are clean. The breakfast you can get at the local bakery close by, stuff like this. And we actually got 50% occupancy without having all the work.
Speaker 1:I mean, we have to work. We clean the rooms and everything, but not having an open restaurant, having team members around, being able to give them some holiday, send them away. And that was great for us, which even now gives us a chance during November, including breakfast because we had enough occupancy so we can clearly have the hotel already open, which again gives us possibility in the future to employ our team members all year around, not only during the season, which is less stress to find team members. Especially for ski resorts or holiday resorts, it's always a struggle to find new team members. And that's a little bit helpful for us being able to leave it open.
Speaker 3:So we've talked through the guest facing tech. I am curious to learn more about the back office tech. So do you have a revenue management system? Do you have
Speaker 1:an accounting system? How does tech help you run efficiently behind the scenes? It's funny. With my company, we've done always a questionnaire with 80 hotels to find out how does the digital tech stack looks in Switzerland. And we got really response from 80 hotels.
Speaker 1:And what we clearly can see now is the majority of the hotels is focusing on the guest sites. They are very well now with chatbots, with, as we say before, like like, Medicage or Strive, all of these different tools, having TMS, having booking engines, all of them. But often, there's a get actually, there's a lot more behind the scene as you just asked me. And what we as an example, have we working with a company called Hotel Finance. We have integrated our financial accounting tool, human resource tool with PMS and fully automated everything.
Speaker 1:Even what gave us the possibility as it automated throughout the three system, it gave us the possibility to build a dashboard on top with the BI, with the business intelligence, which then of course gives us much quicker information about, how you say, about the turnovers, about the cost, how everything looks. Whereas often we have many other holders which are we working with, sometimes they get the reports one month later, maybe only twice a year or once a year even. And that gives us we have only about five minutes to see clearly five days, how was the month before so that we can react if there's anything goes wrong cost wise or payroll wise and stuff like this. That's the one thing when it comes to administration tools like that. And then the other thing which was very, important for me is when it comes to human resource, having a system which is as well so the team member easy, accessible to see their rotas, to see their shifts, even as well to we working with gastromantic, is the company called, where my team members, they come log on to the system, they see what is their shifts.
Speaker 1:If they wanted to have a day off, they can request it or they can request holiday through the system. They can even swap shifts with colleagues. If they feel like, you know what, can you not do that shift for me? Instead of having all these post its and, you know, how it usually looks like in the house office with all these little papers, they do it through the system to the housekeeper. She can just say, no problem.
Speaker 1:Yes. I swapped with your colleague. It depends on which person it is. So example, if a a housekeeper ask a housekeeper, they even can swap between them. It doesn't need validation by the head housekeeper.
Speaker 1:Of course, if it's different level of employment, it's like, say, learning learner with the restaurant manager doesn't work out. But that's how we make the lives easy for our team members as well with the onboarding so they can send all the information straight into the app, which then makes life first easier to onboard them. So which is a very cool tool to make it much quicker. And that's the back of house. And of course, as you asked before as well, revenue management wise.
Speaker 1:We have a system in place, but then again, we manage the system for our clients, which in this part now is different hotels again, where we help the hotels to improve their turnover, their occupancy and every trade. But we we have seen so many different system out in this world of revenue management, so that we decided we have to find one for our hotels, which, again, cost wise is fair. So we said, you know what? We offer you the service. We make sure that all your figures are correct and that we really do revenue management for you, but we will buy the system for you so you get the better rate.
Speaker 1:We work in this case with Appamise, which is a great revenue management. It has a very good overview as well forecasting tools in it. And so that makes it much more efficient for us whereas for our clients, in this case, the different hotels.
Speaker 3:One thing that I'm curious to hear your take on, I hear a lot of hotels mentioning this desire for more personalized marketing. Like if someone booked a balcony room last time, you want to send them an email asking them to book a balcony room next time. How do you think about guests staying with you for different reasons on future stays? Like, do you think all of the guests' preferences from their prior stay, are those all still relevant for their future stay? Or maybe you have a guest that comes back with you every year and sometimes they bring their kids, sometimes they travel with friends.
Speaker 3:Like, I feel like it could be the same person, but they have different needs. So how do you think about that in a marketing context?
Speaker 1:It's funny that you ask. I remember when I used to work on a five star property up in Arosa as well in a different ski resort. My previous team there always, he was hanging up to some pictures in winter in the lift, in the elevator, and during winter, in some way, the winter pictures of course to make sure that everybody understood. By the way, you can be here as well in Switzerland or in summer in the hotel or in winter. Just as a simple or as an example, wouldn't we have the English?
Speaker 1:Nobody was key in Switzerland because they were the first saying, you know what? It's so beautiful in winter. We should come up here as well in winter, not only in summer. And that's what you mean is we don't always know what they want to do, so we have to give them ideas. And I think that's important as that you have a mix.
Speaker 1:But then, again, how do we find out what could be their interest? Because he's a free rider as well, so golfer in summer. Could that be? So I don't wanna have it just a shot. And therefore, sometimes, yes, we need just our team members as well to be able and I think that's the thing is where we have to give them possibility to record.
Speaker 1:Of course, now we have to GDPR, be careful what we record these days, of course. But then again, to understand the person has that interest to make sure that this gets somehow into our system as well that we understand what could be another interest. Of course, means an example, as you just say, I travel with my family, with my boys and my wife, bonds and wives. Well, then again, we go in have a boys group where we go different cities. I'd be honest, I wouldn't go into the same hotels.
Speaker 1:If I travel with my friends, we stay in a different hotels as we stay with my family. But then again, you're right. This could be that somebody's over Christmas with us and then January, they're coming for a week with friends. Absolutely. And for this, as you ask, yes, for this, we need even more data.
Speaker 1:But how do we get that? Oh, that's still a mystery.
Speaker 3:I want to switch gears a little bit and hear about some business objectives that you're focused on. So if you could share one or two goals for your business and how technology is helping you get there.
Speaker 1:Let's focus on our colleagues. At the moment, I'm looking after three halters. Two of them are Rosa Vector and the Alpina Papan as the Bergileni Andaman. These are three hotels and our goal is to grow in the next two to three years up to five hotels at least or even to 10. And why are we confident that we are able?
Speaker 1:One time we see we're having in Switzerland this issue that more and more hotels getting run by family where they don't have a successor and no people coming after them. The kids, they don't wanna take over their hotels. So therefore, the one thing is at the moment happening is a lot of family owned and family run hotels starting to get sold or closed. And therefore, I'm confident that we will find more hotels which we can implement into our group. But how we will be able to do that because we don't find any Modi family which wanted to work twenty four hours without any days off during seven days during the winter season.
Speaker 1:We are aware these days you want to have few days off, you want to work your hours and that's what you want to do and we have to find solution to give this new team or this management couples or this management of the hotels the possibility to have their work life balance, but as well-being able to run the hotel very professional. And I think that with our tech stack, as we are able to take so much administration away to give them really the space for free time, but as well for the time being with clients that we are able to getting more hotels and taking them over and as well cost wise. The thing at the moment, you wanna have as well profit and the face of business. We wanna have the profit. And with the system, we're being able to have a profit.
Speaker 1:We're being able to pay rents and being able as well to refurbish the hotels because often their hotels are not anymore the latest and greatest.
Speaker 3:Do you find that team members are kind of embracing this new technology? And are people happy to be using tech more to gain their work life balance? Or have you run into any hesitation or any pushback on implementing like tech in a more widespread way, especially if you're working with people who may have been managing hotels for years or decades?
Speaker 1:You know everything which is news scares people and they need a little bit time. So often we take team members and as well management home to the journey, show them what is the possibilities. Then we together, we decide which tech stack we want to do implement. Often, end up with the same because it's for us more efficient that we have everywhere at the same so we can swap team members as well through the hotels. But then again, it is always the same.
Speaker 1:So we have the excitement in the beginning. And then, of course, then we have this we call it the valley of tears. Everybody is really frustrated about the new system. It doesn't work. They don't find any more of buttons as where they before and stuff like this.
Speaker 1:But then it usually takes about two to three weeks. And if then you ask the team, so what do you think should be changed back? Is it really that bad? Also, they have forgotten actually how the old system looks like. So it's it's important that you, from the beginning on, take everybody on board.
Speaker 1:But, of course, you will have one or two which are really against it, and you have to find the opinion leaders in your team which are really open for it, which wanna go ahead and press. And that's interesting. And sometimes you are surprised that you feel like, oh, this person will be clearly open for it, but they don't want it to have no change at all. They just wanna you know, it works, but why should we change and stuff like this? You know, if we change everything, you will be having more time to be with your clients.
Speaker 1:You will have 50% less administration. We will be even able to have only one person during the night, which helps us then again having more people during the day, stuff like this. Of course, you can't come only with cutting people down or sorry, having less people in the shifts or having less. It's all about cost. You have to show the team as well the benefit, and then it works very well.
Speaker 1:But for me, was important very important to have every z everybody on board from the beginning and show them the possibility. And of course, to have as well a Vito if they want to, but often we ended up to have no problem at all.
Speaker 3:So I have one more question, which is always a favorite. I'm curious to hear from you, what is one thing you believe about technology in the hotel space that your peers or competitors might disagree with?
Speaker 1:When we speak to hotels or speak with colleagues, often they see only the costs which are completely disagreeing. Yes, there is a cost with the new tech space. You know, in the past, we used to work with CapEx instead of OpEx. And you people always said, okay. You know, that's CapEx.
Speaker 1:I have invested that, and then it was gone. But then again, we had no change for another ten years because we had spent all that money. And therefore, I believe it's not really a cost, it's savings which we are spending to make in the future to have made more turnover, more profit, stuff like this. But that's a really tough one for me to convince my colleagues sometimes to see that benefit, to gain more profit because of more spending.
Speaker 3:Well, that's a great note to end on. Thank you so much for your time, Michael. It was great talking with you. Thank you so much for sharing all your experience and expertise with us.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much for being with you.
Speaker 2:That's all for today's episode. Thanks for listening to Hotel Tech Insider produced by hoteltechreport.com. Our goal with this podcast is to show you how the best in the business are leveraging technology to grow their properties and outperform the concept by using innovative digital tools and strategies. I encourage all of our listeners to go try at least one of these strategies or tools that you learned from today's episode. Successful digital transformation is all about consistent small experiments over a long period of time, so don't wait until tomorrow to try something new.
Speaker 2:Do you know a hotelier who would be great to feature on this show, or do you think that your story would bring a lot of value to our audience? Reach out to me directly on LinkedIn by searching for Jordan Hollander. For more episodes like this, follow Hotel Tech Insider on all major streaming platforms like Spotify and Apple Music.