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In Part 1 of Storied Parenting, Chris and Beth Bruno talk about the 5 stages of a story journey that moms and dads find themselves in. How do you know which stage you're in and how do you advance to the final, desired stage?
Chris and Beth Bruno host conversations at the intersection of psychology and theology. This podcast is powered by ReStory Counseling.
Storied Parenting: Where are You in Your Story Journey?
[00:00:00] Chris: Want to know what it takes to ReStory your life?
[00:00:12] Beth: We are Chris and Beth Bruno, and we lead a team of brilliant storywork counselors around the country, all committed to helping you come alive.
[00:00:20] Chris: We call it the Restory Approach. So if you're a story explorer, kingdom-seeker, or just a day to day-er, you've come to the right place. Welcome to the ReStory Podcast.
[00:00:35] Beth: This fall, we've been talking about what we mean by the Restory Approach and we launched this new name of the podcast in early September, and we started talking about the ReStory Universe, and that was just a fun way for us this past year to start to bring into more cohesion all of the things that we do, and that even though we talk on this podcast primarily about the intersection of psychology and theology and how it plays out in our work at Restoration Counseling, we actually spend a lot, historically a lot more time [00:01:12], you and I, Chris, talking about parenting. And when it comes to stages we're on and content we're producing, much of it has been around parenting. We both have books around parenting and mini courses and actually podcasts that preceded this one: the “Fierce and Lovely” podcast, which I started at three years ago and the “No Regrets” podcast that is a private podcast for members of your fatherhood community.
[00:01:39] Beth: And so there's just a lot under the ReStory Universe that has the same ethos, the same heart, the same perspective as it applies to the various stages we find ourselves in life. And we thought we would really dive in this month into what it looks like [00:02:00] to have a storied approach to parenting, because that really is our–
[00:02:06] Chris: It's our origin story. It's where we started in the ReStory Universe.
[00:02:08] Beth: Yes. And so when it comes to kind of having that perspective around who we are as mothers and fathers, we want to start this week by encouraging all of us to really think about how it starts with us.
[00:02:27] Chris: Yes. With us as parents.
[00:02:29] Beth: Us as parents.
Chris: And with you as parents.
[00:02:32] Beth: Us as men and women.
[00:02:33] Chris: Yes. As fathers and mothers, the parenting journey is not about the children. The parenting journey starts with you as a man, you as a woman, you as a father, you as a mother, and what your story has been so far before the child even came into existence. Before they were born into the world, they were born into a story that was already being written in and through you. [00:02:56] As we talk about the ReStory journey, particularly with regard to parenting, we have to start there.
[00:03:03] Beth: Right. And I think that is kind of the reverse of what so many of us… the path that so many of us find ourselves on as parents. We're thrust into this, you know? We walk into the hospital one way, and we leave, and life is never the same. [00:03:21] We have this child and now we have this whole new role and we start to absorb. How many books can we read about how many things? And we start to kind of enter into “How do we raise this human? And how do we do it the best way that we can?” And our focus is so entirely on that human and not mucking it up.
Chris: Yeah.
[00:03:45] Beth: And we don't realize years into their childhood, particularly when they start, you know, late adolescence, early teen, like we have memories of being that age and we start feeling pricked and prodded and triggered and we realize, “Oh, there's something else present in this space. There's something more than just this child and who he or she is at this point.”
[00:04:15] Beth: And we slowly kind of stumble into realizing that our own story matters. But what if we could prepare parents even before they have children to start attending to their childhood stories so that they are more prepared. So this series is really for all. Whether you have children or not. [00:04:38] Whether you ever intend to have children, we are all called to mother and father the planet, right? The human race, to do so as God did to us. So this is for all of us.
[00:04:54] Chris: Yes. So one of the things that we just did recently was we also led a marriage conference with some friends of ours and it [00:05:00] was called “Story of Your Marriage.” And one of the most terrifying quotes that we had in the marriage conference was that “A child's first reality is their parent’s unconscious.” And causes us to pause for a moment and just go, “What does that even mean?” But the child's first reality is what is being lived out in the unconscious of the parent, because the parent is absorbing them into all the things that are happening in their inner world, in their ways of being, in their ways of interacting, in their attachments and all that in the parents' world.
[00:05:39] Chris: That's how the child is learning how to be a human is through the lens and interaction with the parent. And therefore, as we are parenting, can we take what is unconscious in us and bring it into the conscious? Can we be aware of those things that are happening inside of us so that we can [00:06:00] actually write the story that is intended to be written?
[00:06:03] Chris: And we want to write in the lives of our kids with intention.
Beth: Is that from you, that quote?
Chris: I wish I was that brilliant. It's not from me. It's from a guy named Louis Cozolino.
[00:06:15] Beth: Ok. Yeah. Yeah, I loved that. And I love that way of understanding how much of our story the child inherits long before they even have their own conscience.
[00:06:31] Chris: So when we think about the ReStory Approach, when it comes to parenting from this perspective of the story within us actually forming the story of our child, it's important for us to attend to those parts of us inside of us in the story that is living with us. And so you've put some thought to this. You've put some structure to, “What does it mean for us to have a journey into our story?”
[00:06:56] Chris: And you've done this particularly for moms. I think it applies to dads as well, but you've called it the “Mom's Story Journey.” And I'd love for you to unpack that for us today.
[00:07:05] Beth: Yeah, well, it's all available in a mini course that lives on the “Fierce and Lovely” website, and it was a way to help women understand the journey I think we go through in recognizing our story and then our story as it is present in our parenting, in the kitchen when we're arguing over food or over messes or over whatever. Or in the bedroom at night when we're debriefing the day.
[00:07:38] Beth: And, it is there. Our story is there. And so what is that journey? How do we go from being completely unaware, to being really, very aware and integrated and parenting out of an understanding of our story. And so I put some language around that: five different stages that we go through. The first [00:08:00] is really that kind of “unaware” stage where we are incredibly protected. Let's say we are parenting a tween, a 12 year old girl as a mother, a 12 year old boy as a father. And there are starting to be interactions and we are responding in certain ways. And we tend to view, at this point, at this stage, that most of the problems and issues are the child’s.
[00:08:32] Beth: And, you know, it's external. It's outside of us. And we are, in terms of being aware at all, of where our story might be at play, we're incredibly protected and shielded and not willing, not able– I wouldn't say not willing, not really even able– because we don't yet fully understand and have words for that.
[00:08:52] Beth: And so it's all about the child: The issues that are happening, the way we're interacting and our [00:09:00] relationship is more about the child than it is about us. Does that make sense?
[00:09:05] Chris: Yeah, completely. And so you're protecting your own self and projecting the issues to be all about the child.
[00:09:13] Beth: Yes, yes. And so we begin to move from that stage into the next stage when we can recognize that maybe it's not all about her. It's not all about him. Maybe there's something else here. And that's when we go to stage two, which is “curious.” That's when we can even just start to ask and wonder with curiosity, “What and why do I feel this way? Why am I responding so over the top in this particular situation with this particular conversation, but I don't with others?”
[00:09:55] Beth: We just start to be a little bit more curious about ourselves in those interactions and realize there's something else going on here. That stage can be really short and it can be really long. But it's so crucial to moving on to the next stage, which is “processing.” And processing is where oftentimes we actually need outside assistance.
[00:10:24] Beth: Maybe that's a great book. Maybe that's a friend who is a little further down the road and maybe that's a counselor, but it's a stage where we go from curiosity, and we take more of a deep dive, and we really start to think about, and wonder, and ask ourselves, and really try and go back in time [00:10:46] to see, “What were some of those shaping childhood narratives that are at work here that are coming out and that are oozing and leaking in these spaces with my child?” [00:11:00] And so that also can take quite some time.
[00:11:05] Chris: I just think about the stages of your child's growth and development when they're an infant and two and three and four and five, and as they grow, they're like a mirror to us. [00:11:17] And so what we see in them reminds us, even in that subconscious kind of way, of our own stories, and they do things– or we interact with them and they interact with us– in ways that remind our memories and just our body memory of what it felt like, or didn't feel like, in the interaction with our parents.
[00:11:43] Chris: And that's what you mean by triggers. That's what you mean by the processing of the experience that’s happening, that when you are cuddling your little girl or boy, there's going to be something inside of your body that remembers being cuddled or not. [00:12:00] And when you're eating around dinnertime and what happens at the dinner table with your child, their interaction with food is going to trigger something in your life from what it was like for you at your childhood dinner table.
[00:12:15] Chris: And so that's what you mean by this curiosity, just slowly becoming more aware of those things, and then processing is how those experiences have taken up residence in my life. And whether I'm aware of it or not, I need to be because it's going to leak out in the relationship with the child.
[00:12:37] Beth: Absolutely. Yes.
[00:12:39] Chris: So the next stage is what you've called “empathetic.” What do you mean?
[00:12:44] Beth: Well, I mean that as long as processing takes, and I would not say, let me be clear, I am not saying we're processed and then that's one and done, move on. Honestly this is a [00:13:00] stage that is– in fact, the way I've created the actual diagram to help visually understand this is… it's very swirly, because I think that we go in and out of these stages throughout our lives, depending on the story that we're working on, depending on the stage that our child is in and what they're evoking in us.
[00:13:22] Beth: And so we maybe have processed one particular story, the food story, the lack of nurturing story. Right? And so if we can process that and move forward, we move into “empathetic,” which is this ability to offer empathy to our younger self that in turn offers it to our child. So if I can get to a point where I can offer my 12 year old self empathy, then I have a whole lot more of it to give to my [00:14:00] 12 year old daughter.
[00:14:01] Chris: Great. And that little shift right there, that key is so important for intentional parenting, for present parenting, and it's something that again, makes it not all about the child. It makes it about something inside of you so that you can offer more to your child, so that you can be more present to your child because you're not as protected or triggered or whatever as, as you might have been.
[00:14:27] Beth: Yes, it's beautiful. Yes. And it's the turning point because the last stage “vulnerable” is really a choice and a gift because it's the thing that we then offer our children that really helps them grow and develop into emotional intelligence.
[00:14:51] Beth: We get to decide– and this depends on the age of our kid and the particular story– but we get to decide to invite them [00:15:00] into that story, that narrative, and how we have re-storied it, and how we've been able to go back and offer empathy to that younger self. And we get to kind of coach our kids through that process, [00:15:15] not only helping them understand, “Oh, that's why this interaction always goes this way, mom.” Right? Not only helping them to understand our actual present-day relationship, but helping them learn how to give empathy to us, and for us to receive that from them. And that vulnerability is so beautiful. It is such a gift to our kids because they're going to grow up. They're going to have their own story journey. They're going to go through all of these stages for themselves, for various stories that we are a part of. But they're going to have language. They're going to have a paradigm through which to view themselves. I [00:16:00] love that I'm already seeing our 15 year old talk this way.
[00:16:04] Beth: Right? I'm already hearing her– and I don't want to say they're psychobabble because she's growing up in a house with a psychologist. It's more that she is already learning how to metabolize experiences through an emotional nuanced lens and come out with an interpretation. It’s crazy.
[00:16:27] Chris: Well, and it's that vulnerability of us as parents being able to articulate our story that's helping her articulate hers to be vulnerable with herself.
[00:16:37] Chris: I mean, you just said a moment ago about, “Can we offer empathy to our own little boy or little girl so that we can then offer empathy to the child?” Well, as they see us do that, then they're going to grow up empathizing for their own self. And that's what we're seeing in our 15 year old.
[00:16:55] Beth: Right. So it's just such a mutual gift. And I think that it's that stage that really leads to the connected mother-daughter, mother-son, father-daughter, father-son, relationship that we long for as parents. We long for that. And so often we get stuck in these stages of teenagers, especially, and all we see are their issues and their problems and their ways of engaging.
[00:17:30] Beth: And when we can move through these stages as a parent, as the adult, and come to this one, the “vulnerable” stage, I have seen connection happen, be birthed. I've seen relationships change. I've seen, I've watched it happen visibly onscreen in some of my community gatherings. I have watched transformation [00:17:54] between mothers and daughters. And I've watched trust be rebuilt. I've watched a sense of safety develop. I've watched connection right before my eyes. And I do think it is largely because mom is moving through these stages herself.
[00:18:14] Chris: Yes. So this is all part of a mini course called the “Mom's Story Journey” and maybe you can tell us again where people can find it.
[00:18:23] Beth: Mhm. fierceandlovely.org/mini courses. There's actually quite a few. This is actually not my favorite. We're going to talk about my favorite next week, as it comes to parenting from a completely different paradigm than what I read in all the parenting books, raising my young kids.
[00:18:43] Beth: So I can't wait for next week when we dive into that one, but fiercelovely.org. And it'll be in the show notes as well.
[00:18:50] Chris: All right, we'll see you. Same time, same place next week.
[00:18:53] Beth: Thanks for joining us today on the “Restory Podcast.” To learn more about my work with moms, head over to fierceandlovely.org. There, you can take the “Moms Story Journey” assessment, find the corresponding mini course, and learn more about other resources I've created for women. If you're a dad, don't feel left out. Chris founded Restoration Project 11 years ago with the goal of raising up intentional fathers. At restorationproject.net, you can find all the books, experiences, and a private podcast community called No Regrets, that we talked about. As always, we're here to help you craft a storied life that is worth living. Join us next week as we continue on in storied parenting.