Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
This episode of Beyond Your Default dives deep into the intertwined forces of purpose and passion—how each fuels a meaningful life beyond just daily obligations. George and Liz explore how passion acts as the spark, adding energy and excitement to purpose-driven work, while purpose provides the steady direction. But passion alone isn’t enough; unchecked, it can lead to burnout. Together, George and Liz emphasize the importance of harmonious passion, balanced engagement without compulsion, and the need for intentional rest to avoid slipping into obsessive territory.
Key Takeaways
Passion Isn’t Infinite—It Needs Structure
Passion gives momentum, but without rest and boundaries, it can lead to burnout. Intentional pauses and balance fuel sustainable energy, avoiding the trap of “too much of a good thing.”
Harmonious vs. Obsessive Passion
Harmonious passion allows joyful engagement without overwhelming life. Obsessive passion, however, brings stress, and disrupts other aspects of well-being. Balance between dedication and detachment is crucial for long-term fulfillment.
Purpose is the Compass; Passion is the Fire
Purpose guides, passion energizes. Purpose without passion can feel like homework, but passion without purpose can lead to burnout or lack of direction.
Give Yourself Grace—Life is About Exploration
Discovering passion isn’t a one-time epiphany. It’s about staying curious and allowing passions to evolve over time. Embrace the moments of flow and joy, but remember that rest and self-awareness are key to sustaining those passions.
Memorable Quotes
“Passion and purpose aren’t separate—they’re two sides of the same coin. Purpose gives direction; passion provides the fuel.”
“Rest isn’t the opposite of passion; it’s the fuel that keeps the fire burning strong.”
“If you’re running on just purpose, life can feel heavy. If you’re running on just passion, you can lose direction.”
Reflective Questions
Are you balancing passion with intentional rest and structure?
How do you differentiate between harmonious and obsessive passion in your own life?
What steps can you take to ensure your purpose and passion align for a balanced, fulfilling journey?
Subscribe to the Beyond Your Default newsletter for more insights, stories, and tools to help you build a life beyond the ordinary!
Key Takeaways
Passion Isn’t Infinite—It Needs Structure
Passion gives momentum, but without rest and boundaries, it can lead to burnout. Intentional pauses and balance fuel sustainable energy, avoiding the trap of “too much of a good thing.”
Harmonious vs. Obsessive Passion
Harmonious passion allows joyful engagement without overwhelming life. Obsessive passion, however, brings stress, and disrupts other aspects of well-being. Balance between dedication and detachment is crucial for long-term fulfillment.
Purpose is the Compass; Passion is the Fire
Purpose guides, passion energizes. Purpose without passion can feel like homework, but passion without purpose can lead to burnout or lack of direction.
Give Yourself Grace—Life is About Exploration
Discovering passion isn’t a one-time epiphany. It’s about staying curious and allowing passions to evolve over time. Embrace the moments of flow and joy, but remember that rest and self-awareness are key to sustaining those passions.
Memorable Quotes
“Passion and purpose aren’t separate—they’re two sides of the same coin. Purpose gives direction; passion provides the fuel.”
“Rest isn’t the opposite of passion; it’s the fuel that keeps the fire burning strong.”
“If you’re running on just purpose, life can feel heavy. If you’re running on just passion, you can lose direction.”
Reflective Questions
Are you balancing passion with intentional rest and structure?
How do you differentiate between harmonious and obsessive passion in your own life?
What steps can you take to ensure your purpose and passion align for a balanced, fulfilling journey?
Subscribe to the Beyond Your Default newsletter for more insights, stories, and tools to help you build a life beyond the ordinary!
Creators & Guests
What is Beyond Your Default?
What Is Beyond Your Default? "Everyone keeps telling me I should be happy, but I'm not." “I feel stuck.” “I have a calling, but where do I start?"
Right now, you have a choice. You can continue living within your default norms, playing it safe, clocking in and out every day, and scraping by to achieve what's supposed to make you happy hopefully. Or you can choose to accept the challenge of living beyond your default. Stop wishing to live your "best life” and start living your best life. Success leaves clues. And they're waiting for you to discover them.
My passion for making a difference that keeps me coming back over and over week after week after week. It keeps me fired up and ready to go episode after episode after after episode. So purpose might be the reason I do this, but passion is what brings the energy and enthusiasm that I need to keep at it over and over again. And, like, it doesn't matter because if it was one person, right, the mathematics of 1, 1 person, 1 episode, 1 change, then it that's worth it. But that's because the passion is the enthusiasm to do that, to keep creating, to keep sharing, to keep pushing forward.
Speaker 1:And let's be real. Like, there are days when purpose alone might not be enough to get you through. And that's where passion steps in. Passion reminds you of the joy. Passion reminds you of the excitement of the thrill of being on a journey that freaking truly matters.
Speaker 1:And I think this is why so many people struggle when they feel disconnected from either their purpose or their passion. Get your notepad ready because if you're just running on purpose, life can start to feel heavy and things can start to feel like obligations. If you're running on just passion without purpose, it's easy to get burned out or definitely lose direction. So purpose and passion work together to give us both direction and momentum.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to Beyond Your Default. I'm your host, Liz Morehead. And as always, I'm joined by the one and only George b Thomas. And George, I gotta be perfectly honest before I welcome you to your own show.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:This is one of the first episodes where you haven't either teased me or something about the topic that we're gonna be talking about today, and somehow the silence is even more concerning. So I'm just gonna throw that out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll throw that out there. But why don't we why don't we just start with our usual what's your highlight and your lowlight for the week, bud?
Speaker 1:Hoo. Man. So highlight, I think, is probably the fact that I am really enjoying this AI content creation journey. And the reason I'm bringing that up is because I started to create something special around Beyond Your Default and the personal growth side specifically, but also just leaning into, like, what we're building with the superhuman framework, along with Beyond Your Default and the human side and AI side, and dare I say, Liz, the highlight and and a key piece in my brain is this conversation around collaboration. Collaboration with AI, collaboration with humans.
Speaker 1:That's my highlight. It's just that little, twinkle in my mind lately. The low light, I don't know if I necessarily have a deep, dark, oh my god, existential crisis. But I will say the low light is I don't know if I necessarily have been taking enough time for me lately. Doing all the collaborations, you know, you gotta pay attention to the well, yeah, self care.
Speaker 1:It's funny because as we are prepping for this episode, one of the things I'm gonna mention in is my family. But as I was prepping, I was like, oh, but I haven't done what I'm about to talk about in a while.
Speaker 2:And I gotta be honest with you, George. We have a check-in episode coming up in a few episodes, so you might before teacher figures it out.
Speaker 1:I might yeah. So I need to I need to refocus a little bit on actually taking some time to just be still, be me and chill instead of all the works. But, yeah, that's my lowlights and highlights. Liz, what about you this week?
Speaker 2:I will admit, I was thinking about this this morning as I was getting my morning copy, that my lowlight is I have is a recognition that I have done a terrible job of taking any time for myself.
Speaker 1:Oh, hey.
Speaker 2:No. George, think
Speaker 1:that rhyming.
Speaker 2:When was the last time I ever took a vacation since we started working together?
Speaker 1:I don't know if you have, actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I have this tendency to take trips but continue to work. And this is something I noticed was a was a big problem. I haven't hit any sort of burnout. I haven't hit any sort of threshold, but there is some sort of guilt wrapped around the idea of stepping away.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I haven't figured that out yet because, yeah, I had the same realization you did because I I was like, well, I've taken trips, but I'm always available, and I'm always working. I'm always and so that for me was a low light in that as much as I like to sit here and wag the finger at you, I have been criminally bad at being just Liz, the human, and then wondering why sometimes I feel little fractures in my creativity. You know? If you wanna become a better creative or a better writer in my case, go live life.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:If you're constantly chained to your chained to your desk, you're not living. And so that was something I'm trying to be mindful because I just had my birthday a couple of weeks ago, and I've been thinking mindfully about, you know, what do I want my 42nd into 43rd year to look like. And the thing I am really looking for is I have moved out of survival mode. Right? And I did a lot of work to get where I am, and I'm very proud of how I got myself here.
Speaker 2:Was it always pretty? No. It was messy. It was bloody. We made some mistakes along the way, but what got me here isn't going to get me where I'm going.
Speaker 2:And so it's making that shift of, okay, now that we're out of the mud, where do I want to go? How do I actually start living? So I'd say that was a low light. Highlight is I've been able to actually stay with a best friend of mine over the past few days. She also works for herself.
Speaker 2:We do the same work, and just getting to see her kids has been great. I've been a human jungle gym pretty much. As soon as I clock out as soon as I clock out around 6 o'clock every day, I got kids all over me, and that's just always good. You know? I think I don't really wanna dig into current events, but I think whenever I seek children, I feel a lot of hope for the future.
Speaker 2:Like, there's just such this beautiful optimism about them. Just being around unabashed kid joy is just so soothing because I think as adults, we forget how to play. We forget what lights our fires, which actually gets us into today's topic because last episode, we talked about the first cornerstone of the superhuman framework. Right? And the superhuman framework, we went through the 10 h's, the daily habits and qualities we cultivate to live a life beyond our default.
Speaker 2:But the cornerstones, like purpose and now the conversation we're going to have today, passion, these are the things that give us the emotional and motivational foundation to apply those habits effectively in our lives. Right? Because you can have humor and humanity and holiness and all these things. But if you don't have purpose giving you direction, if you don't have passion lighting you up, you're just kind of going through them. You're busy.
Speaker 2:You're not productive. So that's what we're talking about today. Right? We're talking about passion. Now, is passion really that big of a deal?
Speaker 2:I am not asking that rhetorically. I'm someone who likes to ask questions. I think for me, I wanted to know the answer to this question because sometimes I wonder, are we just chasing a high that doesn't really exist? The reality is, though, is that passion is actually kind of a big deal. So research shows that individuals with high levels of work passion are more likely to report engagement, vitality, and productivity in their roles.
Speaker 2:It improves their task performance, and it makes them feel more satisfied in their jobs as opposed to those who lack satisfaction or passion for their work. However, despite the push for passion in career paths, and I think this is something we've seen a lot in post pandemic life where people have continued to redefine, do you work to live or do you live to work? Where are you actually putting those energy hours? Right? But despite this push, only about 13% of employees globally feel genuinely passionate about what they do.
Speaker 2:Most people say that they do not feel an alignment between the work that they do and the personal values that they hold. But, obviously, work is not the only place that we see passion. Right? So engaging in nonwork passions significantly boost well-being and life satisfaction regardless as to whether or not those passions are tied to your job. 52% of people who dedicate time to a creative hobby or passion report enhanced problem solving skills and creative thinking in other areas of our life.
Speaker 2:So it not only makes us feel more fulfilled, we become better problem solvers. We become more mentally acute and engaged in our own lives. So today, that's what we're doing, George. We're exploring what it means to live with passion, how to reconnect with your inner fire when it feels dim or if it was ever lit in the first place, and knowing the difference between true passion and fleeting excitement. You excited to dig into this?
Speaker 1:I am. I I think it's gonna be a a very interesting conversation.
Speaker 2:Let's start with you, George. You know, I love to always start you with a softball.
Speaker 1:The guinea pig. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The guinea. Hi. It's okay. I know you always get me back, but I would love to hear from you what your journey has been like for you in discovering your own passions, and what should that path of discovery look like for others? Because discovering what you love is not easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. It's definitely not an easy button, but it's it's definitely needed. When it comes to discovering my own passion, Liz, it's it's been this let's just say it's been a real journey. One full of twists, turns, definitely unexpected stops, and I would even say the occasional smack in the face where it's like you have these wake up moments.
Speaker 1:And and we've talked about some of those on previous podcast episodes of my life. But, you know, I can I can remember in my younger days, like, I used to think that passion was supposed to be this big, like, dramatic moment where everything suddenly clicked into place, like, you know, and fireworks are going off, and it's like this magical moment? But, honestly, for me, it's been a lot more like peeling back layers to reveal what really lights me up, in my soul, in my core, in in, like, the depth of who I am as as a human. You know, it's been a slow build sometimes and one that's kind of taught me that passion isn't just about this excitement or this excited feeling, but it it really is, at least the passion that I think we should be looking for along this beyond your default journey is it's about depth. It's about connection.
Speaker 1:It's the things that pull you back that make you wanna keep showing up. And especially when things get tough, and I don't I don't wanna get into persistence yet. That's a that's another episode. But when things get tough and you've got that purpose and you've got the passion, you know, one of the big passions I've shared on this podcast before, and I think maybe the reason for the podcast is I'm passionate about helping others. That's been a constant for me, whether I was being a blessing bomber after I learned about that at the church with pastor Dave.
Speaker 1:And we've talked about that, like, in in historical podcast. But even, like, if you look at the superhuman framework, what is the core essence of that? Well, to help others. And if I look at my past list, lifeguard, rappelling instructor, pastor, riding instructor, HubSpot hero, like, what what am I doing every single time? I'm helping others.
Speaker 1:And, again, I list all those things out, but it isn't just about the roles. It's about this kind of inner drive that I have to make a difference. I wanna make a difference. I talk about the ripples. I wanna be able to give people the tools, the best practices, the mindsets, the hacks, the whatever you wanna call it to improve their lives.
Speaker 1:Like, this is what I'm passionate about. This is what I keep coming back to again and again and again, and it's what makes me feel like I'm doing meaningful work or being a meaningful human to the other humans around me because I I wanna make an impact. I wanna be a catalyst. That's a passion that's been both rewarding and humbling at the same time because, Liz, it pushes me to be honest. It pushes me to listen, to really understand what people need, and then do my best to deliver.
Speaker 1:Now, I just said that towards me. What I would want the listeners to understand is it will push you. Your passion, your true passion will push you to be honest with yourself, to listen to yourself and those around you, to need, and then do your best to deliver that thing for them that you're passionate about. Another passion that's deeply rooted in my life is self growth. Again, why are we on this podcast?
Speaker 1:Why have we gone through the trenches in the last, like, plus year? I mean, listen. We've had good talks about this before, but I'm always diving into self reflection. I'm analyzing my past experiences, and and I'm digging into the big whys of my life. And I would ask the listeners, like, are you digging into the whys?
Speaker 1:Liz you literally, in the beginning of this, like, I haven't taken a vacation. Why? Like, why am what am I choosing to do and why in the future as I go from the 42 to the 43? Right? This is a big reason I talk about living beyond your default in general, by the way.
Speaker 1:On this podcast, I've seen how easy it is to get stuck in routines that don't serve us and these routines that keep us from becoming who we could be. And so I'm passionate about self growth because self growth is more than a hobby for me. It's a passion that drives me to keep challenging myself, challenging others to try new things, and to see just how far I or we as a group can go. And so it's about becoming something greater than we ever thought possible because of the purpose and the passion aligning and us running with it. The last thing I'm gonna mention in this section, and I kind of alluded to this at the beginning of the podcast, is my family.
Speaker 1:They're honestly one of my biggest passions. I've shared stories, here about being a dad and a husband. My passion for my family isn't just about spending time with them. They they drive me to be a better person. Like, I know without them, I am not the George that I am right now.
Speaker 1:And whether it's taking, you know, one of my daughters or one of my sons out for, like, a one on one dinner or to a movie or just showing up to love and support them or stepping out of my comfort zone for, like, a girl day or a spa day or you know? And listen. I've talked about the nail salon before. I'm not hiding from it. We you mentioned self care.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great way for self care.
Speaker 2:You know, I'd love that for you. I'd love that for you. It makes me so happy for you. But Get that massage.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But but here's the thing. Like, when it comes to my family and the passion for my family, I'm in it heart and soul. Right? Because I understand that my family is my anchor, the the source of so much joy, and I would even say, like, a level of resilience.
Speaker 1:And it's not just the small stuff, by the way. Like, listen, hiring them, giving them space to grow and find their paths, seeing them become their future selves is, like, one of my greatest joys I know. And trust me, it's not always easy. Like, your passion can also have struggle points. But, look, I I don't wanna make it sound like it's just, like, oh, fantastic magical thing because discovering what you're passionate about, like, me understanding those three things and being able to talk about them today, they weren't always known, and it wasn't always simple to be able to communicate that.
Speaker 1:For anyone listening to this podcast, if you're if you're trying to find your own passions, like, here's what I would say. It's okay if it's not some huge moment. I go back to, like, the fireworks and you could start by exploring what makes you feel connected to something on a deep level, even if it's like this tiniest of small spark, this quiet feeling, right, rather than those fireworks that we think that passion needs to be. Listen. I'll never forget this moment I had at an event in California for a business I started called graphics for worship.
Speaker 1:This is years years years ago. And I was standing there selling this company, and all of a sudden I had goosebumps, like this goosebump moment where I realized that so many of the jobs I had had, honestly, it was like 6 or 7 of them, that all of a sudden I saw them all align with what I was doing right then, right there in that space. And it was like, oh. So I was able to get an moment, but it was because of these small steps along the way that when the moment came and I saw the alignment, I was like, oh, this is who I'm being set up to be. This is why I'm passionate about these things.
Speaker 1:Oh, this leans into this purpose. And it was like seeing the stars of my own life line up. And by the way, I love and live for those moments when I feel like it's all connected and you start to see the reason for why things are happening. So you don't have to have it all figured out right away. What I would beg you to to do as you move forward on this topic and with this framework or just even this just one element of your life is keep paying attention to what sparks your curiosity and what, the things that make you feel more alive.
Speaker 1:Because passion and the passions that you have will change, and they'll grow just like we do as humans. And the the things that I'm passionate about now weren't always the same, and that's okay. So you have to give yourself the freedom to keep exploring. But this is why I talk about curiosity in life. You have to keep showing up, and we'll talk about resilience in another episode.
Speaker 1:And remember, finding what you love, what you're passionate about, what gives you energy, it's an ongoing journey.
Speaker 2:So in our last episode, you talked a lot about how purpose can feel like a compass guiding us. Right? Showing us what the direction is and then keeping us on course if we fall off the path. And then you've talked about passion, which can sometimes feel like a fire driving us. So I'd love to hear how in your experience, purpose and passion work together to create this more meaningful life that we're looking for.
Speaker 1:First of all, I love that we're looking for a meaningful life because the opposite is not really something worth chasing. And and I love this conversation around the connection, Right? The connective tissue, if you will, between purpose and passion and kind of how they work together to create this life beyond your default or meaningful life that you're you're trying to do. I do like to think of purpose as the why behind everything we do. It's that guiding star.
Speaker 1:You mentioned compass, but, like, you know, guiding star that gives us direction, especially when we end up, and we always do, on paths that feel a little unclear or a little rocky. Purpose tells us where we're headed. And for me, it's kind of been like this steady, unwavering force helping us helping me make decisions that align with the core values or or the vision for what matters in my life. Now for everybody, that's gonna be different. But I do want you to kind of pay attention to this idea of values and vision for what matters most in your life.
Speaker 1:That's the piece that I would want you to pull out when it comes around purpose. For passion, on the other hand, it's again, I've mentioned it a couple times. It's that spark. It's the energy that gets us moving. It's the excitement, the drive, the fire that keeps us going even when things get tough.
Speaker 1:It's it's what makes us wanna follow that purpose, to actually pursue what matters, and to not do what a lot of us have probably done and what a lot of humans do a lot of times, and that is to just talk about it or just think about it, but not to do about it. Right? And the idea here with passion is it's it's about the doing. For me, passion is what makes purpose come alive. It's the fuel that transforms purpose from an idea, a thought, a thing that I might talk about into something that I actually start to live out on a daily basis, weekly basis, monthly, but I'm living it out.
Speaker 1:In my own experience, these two, purpose and passion, I I literally look at this as they aren't separate things, but so many people, and I personally looked at them for years as separate things, I do want you to envision them as two sides of the same coin. Like, take this podcast, for example, or even the superhuman framework that we're talking about and building out. My purpose here is to help people grow. Right? This podcast, that's my purpose, to come and tell stories, to do research, to have conversations with Liz so to help people grow.
Speaker 1:By the way, one of those people is me. Another one of those people is Liz. The other people, you, yeah, listening. But people to grow and to equip them with the tools, the tactics, the hacks, strategies for a better life. But it's my passion for seeing real change, my passion for making a difference that keeps me coming back over and over week after week after week.
Speaker 1:It keeps me fired up and ready to go episode after episode after episode. So purpose might be the reason I do this, but passion is what brings the energy and enthusiasm that I need to keep at it over and over again. And, like, it doesn't matter because if it was one person, right, the mathematics of 1. One person, 1 episode, one change, then it that's worth it. But that's because the passion is the enthusiasm to do that, to keep creating, to keep sharing, to keep pushing forward.
Speaker 1:And let's be real. Like, there are days when purpose alone might not be enough to get you through, and that's where passion steps in. Passion reminds you of the joy. Passion reminds you of the excitement of the thrill of being on a journey that freaking truly matters. And I think this is why so many people struggle when they feel disconnected from either their purpose or their passion.
Speaker 1:Like, get your notepad ready because if you're just running on purpose, life can start to feel heavy and things can start to feel like obligations. If you're running on just passion without purpose, it's easy to get burned out or definitely lose direction. So, purpose and passion work together to give us both direction and momentum. Purpose gives us the road map and passion keeps us moving, helping us embrace the journey with all its ups and downs, the hills and valleys. And and when these 2 aren't individual, like I just mentioned a second ago, when they're in sync, not the band.
Speaker 1:By the way, much more of a Backstreet Boys fan than in sync, but that's not why we're here. When when they're in sync, that's when we feel like we're not just existing. But as humans, because we have our purpose and our passion, we're truly living. And and, dare I say, living a life beyond our default. But, Liz, I'm super curious because I get to throw questions back in your corner every now and then.
Speaker 1:Like, what are your thoughts here just in general of the question, but also based off of what I've kind of shared?
Speaker 2:There are a couple of things that you've said so far that have really stuck out to me. And one of the most important things you said is that if you're waiting for this big moment of what your passions are, you're gonna, my brothers and sisters, Christ, you're gonna be waiting forever. Right? Like, that's not how any of this works. I think sometimes we go out into this world, and we have this assumption of there's already a predetermined answer.
Speaker 2:There is no act of curiosity or discovery. And I also think that a lot of people when they're going out, whether we're talking about purpose or passion because you're to your point, they're two sides of the same coin. Right? There is an assumption there's only one answer. There is an assumption that that answer won't change or evolve over.
Speaker 2:I love what you said there about purpose. If you're just leaning weighted too heavily on the purpose side, then life feels like homework. You're just out there every day. I am a cog in the machine. I have a purpose, and it doesn't light me up.
Speaker 2:Like, one of the things I love to talk with my clients about, on the marketing side of what I do is that are we here to solve real problems or imagined ones?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And when I think about passion, I then ask myself, okay. If we're solving a real problem, not an imagined one, am I excited to solve this problem? Or some of my favorite ways to think about it is my purpose is to be a catalyst for catalysts. But my passions such as writing, I know, writing, storytelling, looking at someone and helping them see what I already see in them, those are my passions, my tools that help me live and fuel my purpose. So it's interesting.
Speaker 2:I see them as two sides of the same coin, but I also see passion as my tool. Right? I get really passionate about stories. I get really passionate about people, and that's what helps me solve solve the real problems in front of me, which is how do I help the people who are meant to change the world? How do I change their worlds in their own backyard?
Speaker 2:Like, that is always the problem that I am trying to solve. Because the moment I can help a catalyst catch their own vision is the moment it becomes easier for them to do it for other people. So when I think about purpose and passion, they they go together. You can have a purpose, but if it doesn't excite you, if it doesn't wake up some sort of fire in you, I'd like to use passion as a litmus test. Right?
Speaker 2:We're gonna get into this a little later. Right? Like, there's a reason why it's called work, kids, and that happy fun time recess explosion, fair extravaganza balloon confetti cannon. Right? Like, because sometimes I just yeah.
Speaker 2:Because sometimes it just feels like work, and that's okay. But I like to use passion as a litmus test in terms of, is this really my purpose? Is this the pro are these the problems I am built to solve? Because if there's isn't something that sparks me about it because you and I could go do a lot of things for a lot of different people. You know, we're a little, yeah, we're a little bit of a Swiss army knife.
Speaker 2:I can go out and solve a lot of different problems than the one I'm ones I am choosing to solve, and that's because I am passionate about these specific problems. And I have certain internalized passions that make me perfectly equipped to solve these. That's how I view them as working together for me. So when I was doing research for this episode, I came across something very interesting that I wanna talk to you about. There's this idea in psychology of 2 different types of passions.
Speaker 2:The first is harmonious. Right? Harmonious passion is described as a balanced, joyful engagement in something we love where we're able to switch it off and stay in control. Then there's the second type, which is obsessive passion, and this is a bit more intense. It's the drive to pursue something we love, but it's with a sense of compulsion that can lead to stress or even conflict with other parts of our lives.
Speaker 2:So I'd love to hear from you what your thoughts on these are and how we recognize the difference in ourselves. Because to me, this is something that I think that matters, but I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:This was the question for me when I started to go through this because so first of all yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe not in the way that you're thinking right now. Liz, I have to admit, and listeners, I'm admitting to you right now, I had no clue about this harmonious versus obsessive passion thing until I read the show notes that you sent over. Now what I will say about that is it's been fun to dig into these two concepts and reflect on how it shows up or how it has showed up in my life with, like, this new kind of vision.
Speaker 1:Because this harmonious versus obsession, it really brings kind of this, I'll call it, a new layer of understanding to what it means to follow something we love, things that I have loved and followed without letting it take over everything. And so, by the way, I'm I'm gonna repeat a little bit of what you said so that the listeners don't have to rewind because I I wanna break it down and then move forward because I feel like there might be a few listeners that are sitting here going, sounds interesting. Hashtag no clue. So like you said, this harmonious passion, it's like this balanced, joyful state where you as the human are fully engaged with something you love, but it doesn't run your entire life. That's a very key point in that.
Speaker 1:You can show up, you can dive in, you can give it your all, But then when it's time, you can step back, recharge, and focus on other things that matter too. As soon as I was, like, getting to this part and researching this part, I started to ask myself questions like, can I do that with my work? Can I dive in, give it my all, and then step back and recharge and let go? I started to ask that question to several key things in my life because then it helps me judge if it's harmonious or not. Right?
Speaker 1:The thing, though, it this idea, it's fulfilling because it integrates well with the rest of our life. This is why I started to ask the questions. Is the thing integrating with my life, with my family, with my friends, with my health? Is it integrating with all the good stuff? Alright.
Speaker 1:So now, on the other side, obsessive passion has a completely different, we'll call it, vibe. It's that intense, almost relentless drive where you feel compelled to keep going no matter the cost. That's the key point I think that I would wanna put shine a spotlight on for keep going no matter the cost. You might start sacrificing other important areas of your life, Maybe even your own well-being because you're so focused on this one thing so passionately, and sometimes you don't even realize it's happening because you're, I'm just into it. I'm just into this thing.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter that I generated 14 ebooks on a weekend. I'm just passionate, and I'm into it. Oh, no? Nothing else existed that weekend? Oh, you see, but over time, this can start to create stress.
Speaker 1:It definitely goes into burnout. It conflicts with other areas that are important to you in your life even though you can't see it because you're in the mix or the moment. For me, it's taken some real self reflection to recognize when I'm leaning too far into obsessive passion and I'm trying to be as honest as I can as I'm talking through this on this episode. Take the superhuman framework that we've been building out, for instance. I'm passionate about building this and sharing it with people, with the world, with organizations and individual humans.
Speaker 1:But there are times, yes, there are, when I catch myself feeling that compulsion to keep going, keep tweaking, keep producing content, even, dare I say, when I'm exhausted or even when it's pulling me away from other things that I care about, client work or family time or the ability to focus on my own health and maybe go walk a mile or 2. That's a sign that I need to pull back and find that harmony again. So how do we recognize the difference in ourselves? Like, what is a way that we can do this? For me, it starts with asking myself a few questions, and I'm gonna start to do this more in the future now that I have the understanding, thanks to Liz, in this podcast episode of these two things.
Speaker 1:So here's the questions I want you to jot down on your notepad. Am I enjoying this process or am I feeling pressured by it? There's a big difference between enjoying and pressure. And if you ask yourself the question, document it and think about it. The next question I I want to ask myself is, can I walk away from it when I need to or do I feel like I can't stop?
Speaker 1:That question right there for me is a dangerous question. Because if I look historically, there's a lot of times where I would be like, I just felt like I couldn't stop. And by the way, I didn't. I have a meeting in 10 minutes. I can't go to the hospital right now because everybody thought I had a heart attack.
Speaker 1:So the third question I have to start to ask myself and hopefully the listeners will ask yourself, is this passion enhancing my life or is this passion starting to take a toll? And, see, if the answers point to feeling tense and stressed or out of balance, then listen listeners and to myself, that is a pretty good signal that it is moving into obsessive territory and that's not where we wanna be. Why does this matter? We all need to understand that harmonious passion keeps us grounded. Harmonious passion keeps us happy.
Speaker 1:Harmonious passion keeps us in control. It allows us to keep showing up without the most worst possible thing happening. It allows us to keep showing up without losing ourself, but obsessive passion can drain us, make us feel out of control, and ultimately lead to burnout, which is the opposite of what we want when we're doing something we love. We need balance. Just even knowing about this or paying attention to this, Liz, it's been a game changer for me, and I think it's essential for anyone that's listening to this podcast and pursuing something that they're passionate about.
Speaker 1:And I hope the listeners understand it's about staying connected to the joy, not the pressure of it. It's okay to be passionate, but we're not just passionate, but we have to be present. We have to be grounded. We we have to be able to enjoy the journey that we're all on. Liz, I'm super curious.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts here?
Speaker 2:I have to also think about this from a leadership or a collaboration perspective because what struck me when I just when I found this in my research is how it resembles anything that becomes an addiction. Right? The moment it becomes disruptive to the rest of your life, your relationships, it makes you make choices that are not healthy for you. You have a problem. It is it can become it can it can present like an addiction.
Speaker 2:But the reason why I say I wanna talk about the collaboration and leadership piece of it is that I've seen situations, and I've been the creator circumstances where your obsessive passion makes you judge others as not being passionate enough. Where, well, I'm sitting here spending all of this time and all of these all of my weekends doing these things, and I'm working with people who are keeping more standard hours, and they can't keep up with me, and that's their problem. And I've seen that happen in work situations, and it becomes toxic because what is happening is as a leader, you are not acting with a level of self awareness, and you are looking at others going, well, they're just not keeping up. Well, they're just not up at my level. They should rise to meet me where I am.
Speaker 2:Instead of asking yourself, am I setting the right expectation? Am I actually even operating in a way that is healthy, that is harmonious? That's where this gets really truly important because I know a lot of people who are listening to this. This isn't just about growth mindset and growth as a person and an individual. I'm sure some of you listening either are in leadership position positions or have aspirations of one day being in a leadership position.
Speaker 2:And when you have that kind of visionary quality, you are probably gonna have more days or weekends where you push harder than others. But that expectation that if others are not sacrificing in a similar way means they are less passionate, less committed, less driven, and fueled by their own purpose toward your vision or your mission, that's when we start reaching a level of toxicity that can be catastrophic because people will either have to kill themselves metaphorically in order to get to your level, thus corrupting the harmony in their own lives. Because if we are operating at a level of passion that is creating disharmony in our lives, whether that's through our health, through our relationships, creating mountains of work that nobody could possibly go through, right, you are then asking those people to rise to their level, and then you are impacting them in their communities. It is impacting their relationships, their health, and then also probably their self esteem. Well, I'm just never gonna be able to do enough.
Speaker 2:I just lack the passion. So I I I always like to think of it in that context, you know, because all of the passion can be such a powerful thing. It can help us move mountains, and that is what we are meant to do. Right? We are here to move mountains, whether that's a little mountain, a medium mountain, a giant mountain, doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2:But when I think about passion, it is most powerful when it's used as a tool of what you were talking about earlier, George. That's why I love that you brought up collaboration. Right? That's passion is is a beautiful thing that can be such an incredible unifying force. But if you don't have a handle on your own behavior, what are you actually fostering?
Speaker 2:And I say this from experience. I say this as the person who did that. You know, I learned that lesson the hard way. This was a a long time ago in a previous life as a leader, and I had a very destructive vision of what it meant to be passionate, what it meant to show commitment to a cause or to your work or to a purpose. It wasn't right for other people.
Speaker 2:Those are my thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yeah. My brain is going a 100 miles an hour.
Speaker 2:Yeah. How are you doing over there?
Speaker 1:I'm doing good, but it's interesting because I'm listening to you talk, and multiple layers of my life are colliding. Because one of the things that, you know, I do another podcast, Go Figure, called wake up with AI because I am passionate about AI, and we are collaborating with AI to create some things that we create. I'm sitting here listening to you talk, and I'm like, wow. Just because I can create things faster doesn't necessarily mean I need to deliver them to the people at the rate that I created them because maybe I should have some sort of balance, a reservoir, or a dam comes into mind where it's like, sure. You could have this reservoir or dam of creations and ideas, but knowing there's a human on the other side of this passion and this expedited creation process, maybe you just drip out a little bit here and there so that they don't feel buried, so that they don't, start to think, how am I gonna keep up?
Speaker 1:So they and you even mentioned the word of, like, they start to feel bad about themselves and internalize, like, self esteem. So there's just a lot where I'm like, okay. Leaders who are trying to be passionate and create things and get into this world of leveraging AI to streamline their processes, there's a conversation in the future that I feel like I'm gonna wanna have around balance and dams or reservoirs and, like, the human output versus the what you're anyway, not why we're here, but that's where my brain's going.
Speaker 2:No. But that's good. I mean, these are the conversations we need to be having with ourselves about, you know, what is the role that passion plays in our lives and what are the unintentional expectations we set around us. Because this can happen in our personal lives too. We assume every like, we can have a shared vision of what we all want to achieve and have very different ideas around our internalized purpose or passion it will take for us to get there and the role that we individually play in getting us there.
Speaker 2:So it that's why passion is such a fascinating thing because we it is truly self defined. So I alluded to this earlier, but I wanna get into our next question. You know, many people assume we talked about the assumption that passion is just this one great discovery. And one day, you're gonna wake up and go, Ben, I know what I'm doing now. Here we are.
Speaker 2:But there's also this assumption that pea when people are truly passionate about their work, they're never gonna feel stressed or burned out. But studies show that even passionate workers experience frequent burnout and stress. So I'd be curious why you think passion alone isn't enough to prevent burnout, and how can someone balance that intense drive with the need for rest and boundaries? Because, you know, you and I both were professors at rest and boundaries. I know.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry to laugh, but, like
Speaker 1:I mean. I don't I don't I
Speaker 2:don't know. Blind leading the blind situation, I'm unclear.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, Liz, first of all, that's it's a great question. I think, first of all, it's one of the biggest misconceptions about passion. Right? You're you're right.
Speaker 1:A lot of people assume that if you're truly passionate about something, it could carry you through everything, get you through anything. If you are truly passionate, like, you're gonna be able to do anything without feeling stressed or drained or burned out. Passion alone doesn't make us immune to burnout. If that was the case, I'd never burn out. And trust me, I've burned out in big red hot flames before.
Speaker 1:In fact, sometimes if we're not careful, passion, it can actually lead us straight into burnout. And so here's the thing, when you're really passionate, you're often so invested in the thing that you push harder, you give more of yourself, and you wanna see the work succeed, the idea succeed, the thing so much that it becomes like a a no matter what scenario. And while that's amazing that you want to succeed and you want it to be great, it also means that you're more likely to stretch yourself too thin to keep going even when your energy aka your health, is running low. Any of you listeners out there, if you're wondering, because I don't want you to get caught in a wondering loop. This topic that we're covering this question, the reason Liz giggled, and I was like, yeah, is because I've got the t shirt, the hat, the shoes, and I've worn holes through all of them.
Speaker 1:I can go back and look at my past and be like, whee, my goodness. Passion can keep you in the game. It's fine. But what it doesn't do, it doesn't replace the need for rest, the need for recovery, the need for balance. Hashtag health, ladies and gentlemen, physical and mental.
Speaker 1:I think burnout happens when we start relying on passion alone to keep us going and ignoring the signals that our body and our mind, send us. We just we flat out, like, nope. Don't care. Don't wanna hear it. I don't see it.
Speaker 1:Let's keep going. And when we don't build in those boundaries, which hopefully, if there's anything that you take away from this podcast is that we need to set up our own boundaries, not just boundaries of others. But when you build those boundaries, the passion can start to feel pressure if you don't build them, and and so we need to build those boundaries. Listen. That's when the joy and the excitement can fade, which, by the way, if we talk about purposes or passion as energy, energy, the excitement, the joy, if it's fading, then what does that do?
Speaker 1:It leaves us feeling exhausted. I've had times in my life where it's even made me feel resentful towards the very thing that I once loved. I don't maybe I'm the only one. So No. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I didn't think I was. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think I was. So so how do we balance that drive with the need for rest?
Speaker 1:Right? For me, it starts with setting again intentional boundaries, understanding that passion needs structure. Ladies and gentlemen, please write that down. Passion needs structure to thrive. I found that scheduling breaks, trying to prioritize downtime, and even setting hard no work times are critical.
Speaker 1:Now make no mistake, even though I said critical, I still struggle to do these things that I just mentioned sometimes, but at least I have the realization. At least I'm paying attention. At least I'm trying to do these things, and it's it's about keeping an eye on our energy. It's about being honest about when we're feeling drained and giving ourself permission to step back without guilt. I I hope all the listeners heard that last part, without guilt.
Speaker 1:Another important part is to remember that rest fuels that passion that we so want to have and it have it be part of the purpose that we're trying to play out. So many times we think that rest takes us away from the thing, but rest doesn't take us away from what we love. It actually helps us bring our best energy and creativity to it when we're doing it. So if you're passionate about something, recognize that taking care of yourself is part of keeping that passion alive. And if you have a hard time with that, go listen to the self.
Speaker 1:Just take care of yourself. You've got to take care of yourself along the way. Listen. Passion is powerful, but it is not limitless. I don't know if you realize this or not, but either are you.
Speaker 1:See, when we learn, and I'm preaching to myself by the way, when we learn to balance our drive with self care, that's when we can truly sustain our passion for the long run. And, Liz, this is an amazing episode. I can't wait to talk about persistence, but I have to ask. I know I'm gonna ask you your one thing from this episode because, by the way, we've gone places that I didn't even think or know that we would go. But before I ask you one thing, is there anything that is coming to mind or that you wanna share before I go into that?
Speaker 2:We equate passion with fire. Fire when it's a controlled burn provides warmth, provides safety, provides illumination if we really wanna dial into the metaphor. Unchecked fire is catastrophic.
Speaker 1:Destructive.
Speaker 2:Not just for yourself, but for everybody around you. And then it can turn on you. Right? Because you get that's why I started laughing when you said I'm I don't know if I'm the only one who ever started to turn on their passion. I'm like, I also have had desires to kill the baby.
Speaker 2:Like, I've been there. I know exactly what that feels like, where you just come to loathe the thing that used to bring you joy. I've joked about, you know, kind of more humorous versions of this. It's like, oh, this is my new food that I will hyperfixate on for a month and eat it constantly until I can't eat it anymore, and then I hate it. And then I never wanna see it again and just it's the life version of that.
Speaker 2:I think we tend to boop ourselves on the nose with the newspaper if we are not living up to some sort of idealized expectation of what it means to live with purpose, what it means to live with passion. If we get tired, we feel bad. If we aren't showing up the way we think we are supposed to, we feel bad. And so what happens is we start to negatively talk to ourselves. Well, maybe this isn't what I'm meant to be doing.
Speaker 2:Well, if I'm feeling stressed or burned out, then, you know, other people around me, they're not stressed or burned out. Or maybe I'm working with someone where, like, there is that expectation of being up there somewhere. Maybe I'm just not maybe I don't want it badly enough, and that's not true. Too much of anything is just that, too much. It's about balance.
Speaker 2:It's about moderation. You are not a machine. No one is a machine. No one can keep going all the time. One of the things that I had to learn is that, like, the work that I do is very brain intensive.
Speaker 2:Like, I don't have a lot of aspects of my job where it's like I can click around or do things or, like, I don't really have any kind of, like, autopilot tasks I do with my job. And I used to get frustrated myself, like, if I couldn't get creative on demand. And the reality is I'm if I'm not resting or if I'm not creating the containers of time I need to actually be creative, I just won't be able to perform. I just won't be able to do it. I've had to learn to walk away when I do not want to walk away.
Speaker 2:I've had to learn that, like, I cannot force certain things out of myself. And that's again because, guys, we are not machines. We are human beings. We are human beings living a human experience doing our best. You are not gonna knock it out of the park every single day.
Speaker 2:You are not a machine. You actually need to sleep. Your version of living your passion does not have to look like everybody else's version of living their passion mostly because you are showing up with different gifts that may require different things of you. That's why I actually have you'd be so proud. I actually have a morning routine now, George.
Speaker 2:You know this because I've started you've been seeing me. I'm up. I'm earlier. I'm around. I'm already on my second cup of coffee, but that's because I learned in order to be my most creative self during the day, I had to move my physical activity to the morning.
Speaker 2:I had to make my mornings sacred and quiet and completely uninterrupted. Because if I was not necessarily sleeping up until the last minute, but if I was putting stuff till later in the day, if I was just trying to immediately sit down and get to work, nothing was coming out. So sometimes it's about not knowing yourself and know what it what it really takes for you to be a peak performer. And other times, just give yourself an effing break.
Speaker 1:So we've covered a lot of ground today about this lovely passion topic. What's your one thing that you hope the audience takes away?
Speaker 2:Life isn't a fortune cookie, guys. Go out, live this world, live your life, discover your passions, allow them to evolve over time. This isn't some hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. What is 42? The ultimate the the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.
Speaker 2:That's not that's not what this is. Go out. Live your life. Pay attention to your body and how it responds to things around you. When you are doing your work, when do you feel like you are in flow?
Speaker 2:When do you feel excited? Pay attention to that. Then understand that as humans, we grow, we change, we evolve. The most important thing you can do is approach your life with curiosity in a sense of discovery, and stop penalizing yourself like you're doing something wrong because it wasn't this big explosion moment. Sometimes you'll be doing things for ages and then go, oh, crap.
Speaker 2:This is my this is my thing. Or it'll take somebody else going, hey. You're really good at that. Because when you're in flow, what is easy to you is magic to everybody else. So you might not even notice.
Speaker 2:George, what about you? What's the one thing you want people to take away from this episode today? Because you're right. We have covered a lot.
Speaker 1:I'll say this. If you want, and you do, by the way, but if you want your passion to truly last, don't just pour everything into it. Learn to step back and refuel along the way. Passion, it isn't about going full throttle 247. That's the realization that I had to come to, by the way, as we are working through this, and I was thinking about historically.
Speaker 1:Rest isn't the opposite of passion. It's the fuel that keeps the fire burning strong. So listeners, this is what I'm gonna ask you to do when it comes to passion and aligning it with purpose, and it's really gonna lean into what we're gonna talk about in the future which is persistence. Listeners, I need you to take breaks. I need you to set boundaries, and I need you to remember that stepping back is part of moving forward especially on the journey to a life beyond your default.