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This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers and beyond) who want more flexibility while still doing work they love. As a freelance fashion designer, you can build your fashion career on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk). Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want. Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)
Heidi [00:00:00]:
If you've ever done a freelance project and use flat rate pricing as opposed to hourly, you may know that it can be really easy to mess up. What if the client asked for more revisions? What if they change the scope of work? What if they just keep asking you to do more and more? This is a clip from a strategy session with 1 of my fast students, Andresa Iyop. Andresa landed a great new project to design and do tech packs for 10 kids wear styles. The challenge was that mid project, her client changed her mind on the direction of the styles. Andresa did the work and delivered a collection her client was super happy with, but she put in way more work than what was originally agreed to. So I talk her through all the info she should have included in her proposal, how to tell a client mid project that it's going to cost more, and what she can do now to fix this with her current client. If you want tips on how to price and manage project based work, you're going to love this episode of Fashion Designers Get Paid. Let's get to it.
Heidi [00:00:54]:
You mentioned a project that you are working on with a client who, like, changed her mind kind of mid project. Do you wanna talk about that? You're you had some questions around how to manage or navigate that. Or if something else has come up in the meantime, we can talk about anything.
Andressa Iop [00:01:08]:
Mhmm. Well, yeah. About that, changing mind, I think it's like, okay. I mean, because you as I don't know anything, everything about fashion. The clients sometimes have an idea, but then in the middle of project, they change their mind, and that's fine. But I feel like they have to pay for that, right? Yeah. That's a little bit of struggle sometimes because, if I don't charge by hour, I charge by project. Right? So then when I charge it by project, I presume that I'm going to take like, let's say 10 hours to do that.
Heidi [00:01:53]:
Sure.
Andressa Iop [00:01:53]:
But then end this up, taking 15 hours or even like 20 hours sometimes. Yeah. I didn't charge for that. So I struggle on how to ask them to pay for those extra hours, you know? I don't know what to do. I usually Yeah.
Heidi [00:02:12]:
There's answers.
Andressa Iop [00:02:13]:
Yes, yes, yes. I can do it. But it's not your right. I know that it's not right.
Heidi [00:02:19]:
What did the proposal and the contract look like? How did you outline what they were gonna get?
Andressa Iop [00:02:26]:
Well, I said that they were gonna get, like, all the flats, all the tech packs, all the, the textile part as well. And there was a, like, amount, I think it was, like, 10 of that each. But then when I did the flats, then they decided to change. Okay. I don't want those flats anymore. I want to be a different kind of flight, you know, the design. So then yeah. So
Heidi [00:03:03]:
How specific was the proposal? Like, did
Andressa Iop [00:03:07]:
it say Not, I guess.
Heidi [00:03:08]:
Okay. Yeah. Here's the problem. Yeah. Yeah.
Andressa Iop [00:03:11]:
So I I really don't know how to do the proposals because they were different than in Brazil, I feel like. So it's still learning how the proposal should look like. I do ask my husband for help, but he's an engineer. He can help for like, okay, you have to put in a proposal, how many days you're going to take to do that and, how you want to get paid for. And but now, like, or I mean, it's not his fault. It's my fault. It's real confident enough to put everything on the contract yet, I guess.
Heidi [00:03:50]:
Yeah. Because we have templates in Fast and some specific trainings on that. And so I'm curious if you used any of that.
Andressa Iop [00:03:57]:
No. I didn't. Why not? Yeah. That's a good question. Okay. I should. Okay.
Heidi [00:04:04]:
I should. Right? Okay. Yes. There's a reason that's available.
Andressa Iop [00:04:08]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:04:09]:
So so, essentially, especially for a project or flat rate based pricing, You're gonna wanna include exactly what they get. So let's say you said 10 designs. Right? So 10 designs, which includes, were you coming up with the concepts yourself? Like, you were actually designing everything.
Andressa Iop [00:04:36]:
I did come up with the concepts as well. Okay.
Heidi [00:04:39]:
They didn't give you, like, a hand drawing and it was just translate that into a flat and then do the repeat pattern.
Andressa Iop [00:04:43]:
They gave me some ideas. Yes. Some ideas.
Heidi [00:04:47]:
But you did the design. Okay.
Andressa Iop [00:04:48]:
Yes. Mhmm.
Heidi [00:04:49]:
So you got to get really nuanced here. So you're going to say 10 designs and you can say you get 3 rough concepts for each. And a rough concept can be maybe a loose hand sketch or like a little mood board collage. Right? And so it's like, okay, one of the pieces is gonna be a dress with ruffles or a dress with ruching right along this type of idea. And however you convey that idea is up to you as a designer. I don't know what your ideation process is like. Right? Mhmm. So they they would initially start with so they want 10 finished products.
Heidi [00:05:34]:
K? So I'm gonna give you 3 concepts per finished product. So, basically, we're gonna start with 30 concepts.
Andressa Iop [00:05:40]:
Wow. Okay.
Heidi [00:05:41]:
Well, rough concepts. Maybe 20. K? Okay. Rough concepts.
Andressa Iop [00:05:45]:
Mhmm.
Heidi [00:05:47]:
Just for them to get the feel of the direction of what the assortment's gonna look like. Right? So we've got this this pair of leggings with I don't know. Is that, like, color blockers? Is that, like, ruffles on the bottom or, like, whatever. Right? Kids. So, and then of those concepts, they're gonna choose the 10 that they like. And you're gonna give them some guidance. I'm like, okay. I think this is how we should merchandise it.
Heidi [00:06:06]:
And if we choose this one, I think this one actually matches up better or whatever. And then those 10 concepts I'm not talking fully fleshed fashion flash.
Andressa Iop [00:06:18]:
Okay.
Heidi [00:06:19]:
I'm just talking ideation, general concept.
Andressa Iop [00:06:22]:
Mhmm.
Heidi [00:06:22]:
Then you take the 10 that they choose and you translate those into, like, more fleshed out designs. Right? So now we've got 10 fashion flats, and we're starting to see what our actual assortment looks like.
Andressa Iop [00:06:35]:
Mhmm.
Heidi [00:06:36]:
So in the proposal, you're like, in order to arrive at 10 finished concepts, we're gonna start or 10 finished pieces. We're gonna start with about 30 concepts, which is gonna give you 3 options per finished product. Yeah. You select the 10, and then we have those 10 fashion flats that we get to. And then you'll do 2 rounds of revisions to each fashion flat to get them dialed in. That doesn't mean changing the entire concept. That means, oh, make the ruffle smaller. Right? Or let's do a full length sleeve instead of a quarter, 3 quarter, whatever.
Heidi [00:07:13]:
Right?
Andressa Iop [00:07:14]:
Mhmm.
Heidi [00:07:15]:
Revisions not completely changing.
Andressa Iop [00:07:18]:
Mhmm.
Heidi [00:07:19]:
Then you go through the same of like, okay, then once you we have we've done any revisions needed, we sign off on that. And then you go into once once the designs have been signed off, you go into tech packs. Or maybe you're going to now your textile design. Right?
Andressa Iop [00:07:37]:
Mhmm. And
Heidi [00:07:37]:
you're gonna design I don't know how many text styles. Probably not 10. You're probably using a lot of them across Okay. Styles. Right? Mhmm. So you're gonna do 3 textile designs with inspiration for maybe 6 or 9 options, ideation and then execution of whatever. And then, you know, mocked up in 3 different colorway options.
Andressa Iop [00:08:01]:
Mhmm.
Heidi [00:08:02]:
So so you just have to get really nuanced with each step of the process. And likely, you you have already when you did your initial mood boards and your initial ideation for the concepts for all the designs, you have some color story mood board inspiration in there as well. Right?
Andressa Iop [00:08:23]:
So,
Heidi [00:08:23]:
like, once the mood boards and, like, the color story is signed off. So, essentially, however you work as a designer, you wanna map out what are the different milestones. Like, you don't go to tech packs until the the collection signed off on. Right? You don't go to mocking up all these colorways in the in the textile designs until the color story is signed off on. And, yes, there might be some tweaks. Oh, you know what? This pink, we thought it was gonna be great, but actually needs to be a little darker. Like, that's fine.
Andressa Iop [00:08:51]:
Yeah. That's fine. No. I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah.
Heidi [00:08:56]:
So you have to really, like, think about yourself as a designer in your process and, like, what are the 5 milestones or however many milestones. Right? Mhmm. And you outline all of that in the proposal. And then as you go through the project, once the fashion flats are done and the repaying patterns are like, before you go into tech packs, you're like, okay. So make sure before we do any tech packing that this is all approved. Great. It looks great. It's all approved.
Heidi [00:09:27]:
Just get that in an email. Literally, that's all you're looking for. Right?
Andressa Iop [00:09:30]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:09:30]:
And then at any then at the you've got a disclaimer at the bottom of your proposal. Mhmm. Any additional changes or revisions throughout the process, can be will be charged at my hourly rate, or I can put together their proposal.
Andressa Iop [00:09:47]:
Okay.
Heidi [00:09:47]:
And so then as soon as you've got the designs done, and you said the client first is a playful brand and they wanted something different, so you did something different and then they all of a sudden wanna go back to playful. So you're like, great. We can go back to playful. You know, that's going beyond the scope of the original proposal. And you know, we had already gotten, you know, we had gone through approval on on each of these stages. And so I'm happy to do that. I wanna make sure that you're totally pleased with the outcome. But that's a a big change on my side and is gonna require more work than what was originally inside the scope of the proposal.
Heidi [00:10:27]:
So I'm happy to do it, at my hourly rate, which is x. Or I can put together, you know, another proposal to do another round of development on the or or another round of design on the prints.
Andressa Iop [00:10:40]:
That that makes all the sense. I mean, I think I got, in my mind, I did all that, but I didn't put on paper, you know, because I know. Your child
Heidi [00:10:48]:
is not a mind reader.
Andressa Iop [00:10:50]:
Yes. Well, you sound like my husband.
Heidi [00:10:55]:
Yeah. Right? Yeah. So they have no idea. And they're Yeah. They're they're, like, probably not trying to, like, take advantage of you.
Andressa Iop [00:11:04]:
No. No.
Heidi [00:11:06]:
But if you don't set expectations and if you don't outline what this is going to look like from the beginning, then
Andressa Iop [00:11:18]:
Yeah. You don't
Heidi [00:11:19]:
you can't expect them to know. Right? So so don't feel bad. Don't beat yourself up. This is an amazing learning opportunity. Mhmm. And you've probably heard it before, but I always say about pricing, there's a learning curve that you have to go through firsthand. You will learn firsthand. It's like learning how to sew.
Heidi [00:11:39]:
You can watch all the YouTube videos and follow, you know, read all the books, not until you start putting fabric through the machine.
Andressa Iop [00:11:47]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:11:48]:
Do you really get to understand the nuances. And guess what? You're gonna mess up sometime, and you're gonna tear the fabric, or you're gonna break the needle, or you're gonna have to rip out all the seams. Right? Mhmm. There's a a required mandatory learning curve, and the same is true with pricing. So take it as a learning opportunity. And and here's what I would do. Once you wrap up the project, since it was your since you are taking responsibility for this, it's your fault because you didn't outline this in the proposal. What you do is you over deliver.
Heidi [00:12:19]:
You wrap up the project. You do a great job. Mhmm. As soon as the project is done, you say to your client and and the client's really happy.
Andressa Iop [00:12:27]:
Mhmm.
Heidi [00:12:28]:
Hey. It was so amazing working with you. I had a lot of fun on this project, and I'm really, really happy with where it landed. I wanna give you a heads up that I did wind up doing a lot more work than I had originally thought it was going to be, and I take full responsibility for that. Mhmm. I did not fully outline in the proposal and the contract, and I did not give you a fair heads up of, like, what the working process would look like. You know, for me to go back and and revise the prints to make them now playful, just wound up taking up a lot of work and was not something I had anticipated when I put together the proposal. Again, I take full responsibility for that.
Heidi [00:13:09]:
I am not putting that on you. I'm happy to have done this project for this price. Mhmm. So I just wanna be transparent with you right now that going forward, if we do another project, I'll I'll Do the right thing and I'll outline in advance what the project? Trajectory is going to look like and and how to keep that in line with the budget that we've allocated to that. Again, at the end of the day, I wanna make sure that you're happy, but just going back and forth with the prints does add a lot of time on my side. And again, I'm totally happy to have done it, but just heads up going for future. So you take full responsibility. Mhmm.
Heidi [00:13:53]:
Right?
Andressa Iop [00:13:53]:
Uh-huh. Yeah.
Heidi [00:13:54]:
You tell them you are still super happy to do it and that you're really grateful for the opportunity to work with them. But you also give them a heads up that this is not always how it's gonna go. And that, hey, I made a mistake, and I own that. But also going forward, like, this is how it's gonna look. And so you're setting fair expectations. Because then next if you don't say anything, and then next time, like, your proposal feels a lot different, and they get in the middle of the project, and they wanna change it, and you're like, oh, wait. That's gonna cost more. And they're like, but it didn't cost more last time.
Heidi [00:14:23]:
Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Andressa Iop [00:14:24]:
It makes all sense. Yeah.
Heidi [00:14:25]:
Expectations. People are usually very understanding, but they don't wanna be surprised, especially when it comes to money.
Andressa Iop [00:14:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. That's right. Yeah.
Heidi [00:14:38]:
Yeah. What do you think about that? How does that feel, Andresa?
Andressa Iop [00:14:42]:
It makes all the sense. Yeah. Because it's it's much better when you tell the truth, you know? Yeah. You're owning your mistakes, like you said, and they said how it's gonna be in the future. So they know, okay, so if I'm gonna work with her again, so that's how it's gonna look like. But they don't like that. They still have time to find someone else to do the project for them. Right?
Heidi [00:15:11]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Andressa Iop [00:15:12]:
It would be like, okay, we're gonna work with her next collection. And then they reach out to me and they think it's gonna be the same but then it's not then they have to find someone but then they don't have time anymore. Yeah. It's not
Heidi [00:15:28]:
Nobody wants that surprise.
Andressa Iop [00:15:30]:
No. It's not like a trust relationship. Right?
Heidi [00:15:33]:
Right. You have not built any trust. And you're like, what kind of curveball is she gonna throw at us next? It doesn't feel good for anybody. Right?
Andressa Iop [00:15:41]:
No. And that's not how I want my clients to feel at all. Oh. Yeah.
Heidi [00:15:46]:
So when is the project due to wrap up or did you already finish it?
Andressa Iop [00:15:49]:
Yes. I did. Mhmm.
Heidi [00:15:50]:
When did you finish it?
Andressa Iop [00:15:55]:
Last week.
Heidi [00:15:56]:
Okay. Have you talked so so now you need to talk to the client?
Andressa Iop [00:16:00]:
I would talk to them now. Now that I know I don't have to do it. Yes. Okay. Okay.
Heidi [00:16:04]:
I want you to ideally schedule a quick phone call or a Zoom call, not in writing. I think this is much better done voice to voice, ideally face to face. If you I don't know how you normally communicate with them, but I think
Andressa Iop [00:16:17]:
Yeah. We've, like, a Zoom kind
Heidi [00:16:20]:
of call.
Andressa Iop [00:16:21]:
Yeah. Mhmm.
Heidi [00:16:21]:
I would do a Zoom.
Andressa Iop [00:16:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.