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Dear Writer, giving and receiving feedback can be hard. Haven't you ever wished you could watch someone else's writing group to see how they do it?
This podcast is focused on just such a writing group. Join authors JC Bybee, Grey Alder, and Tyler Hess as they razz and encourage each other, talk about every writing topic under the sun, and exemplify the subtle art of helping other writers write better.
00:00:16:04 - 00:00:39:14
Unknown
dear listener. Welcome to the Studio podcast. Whatever we end up going to figure it out. Still do not have a still do not have a, podcast title. The first episode we caught, we recorded last week and we've been racking our brains. I promise we'll have one by the time this airs. The bane of all writers is trying to figure up titles and character names.
00:00:39:15 - 00:01:04:08
Unknown
Exactly. You can make up a fictional universe at the drop of a hat, but don't ask us to name it or name your resource. Stacy Unobtainium. Yes, Unobtainium. No. And we probably don't need to introduce ourselves every time, right? Maybe we should. Quick reminder. I'm Tyler. I'm Jesse. I'm gray, not Adam Gray. There you go. Right there.
00:01:04:10 - 00:01:09:16
Unknown
There we go. Good stuff.
00:01:09:18 - 00:01:27:16
Unknown
Let's see. All right. I think I was last or I was first. Last time. Yeah, gray was first, last time, and I was first the time before that. Guess who's first this time, Tyler? Yeah. Let me grab my notebook. Cue future Tyler giving context for this week.
00:01:27:18 - 00:01:53:20
Unknown
Okay, here's what you need to know for this week. So AJ, Luke and Layla. They're kind of like the Scooby game. I actually call them Scooby Gang several times in my book, because they're the teenagers who think that it's all down to them to solve every problem. So the beginning of this week's session, or the bit they gave these guys for this week's section, they are they try to recruit Warren to go with him because Warren's about a and would be able to beat up anything that's out there in the woods.
00:01:53:22 - 00:02:11:07
Unknown
But he was not going to come with them. So they go by themselves by themselves. And they're trying to find out what happened to their friend Rachel, who has disappeared. Her boyfriend, doesn't know what happened to her. They're out by the lake, and and she went poof. So they're going to go try to figure out what it was.
00:02:11:07 - 00:02:32:12
Unknown
They think they know what's going on. There are these crazy people in the woods, who I call hounds in in this section. That's when we kind of figure out more of what's going on. There's a little bit of Wild Hunt mythology going on. And they understand bit of it, but they don't understand all of it. But they just want to find out what the heck is going on.
00:02:32:12 - 00:03:03:09
Unknown
So they go and they find the footprints of the the hounds that took them. And then they're going to try to find where the hounds are, but then they hear this horn and it freaks the heck out of them because they didn't know that there was a writer. So if you know anything about the Wild Hunt, riders with hunting horns and you know, all that kind of medieval stuff, it's kind of terrifying because they are this immortal, creature that will wreck you up, basically.
00:03:03:11 - 00:03:19:23
Unknown
So they start to run, but they get caught by the hounds, and then the rider is trying to do some kind of magic with them, but it's not really clear at this point what he's doing, but he makes them bleed into the lake. And it's kind of weird and they don't know what's going on, but they're scared as heck.
00:03:20:01 - 00:03:38:23
Unknown
They're probably going to get killed or or turned into and turned into these, these feral people turned into a hound as well. But that's when Nan in the Warren shows up. So? So his grandmother, Nan found out that they had gone by themselves and grabbed one, probably by the scruff of his neck, because he probably didn't want to go that bad.
00:03:39:01 - 00:03:59:00
Unknown
And took them all to the lake and Warren beats people up. The hands up. And then the rider is just kind of watching and isn't really interacting, but he's he's just kind of laughing. And the guys talk a little bit about this in this episode. And then they're trying to get away. That's when the rider starts to starts to act.
00:03:59:00 - 00:04:16:14
Unknown
It looks like he's going to stop them. But that's when Sheriff Bradley and his son Riley, who are a great A, jerks. They're not sympathetic characters. They're not nice guys. They show up and they kind of save the day a little bit. Like they they block the rider. They let the other group get away, and we don't really know what happens after that.
00:04:16:16 - 00:04:33:22
Unknown
Fast forward to they're back in town. They go back to Nan's little shop. It's kind of like an apothecary shop a little bit. She's they they keep calling her Gandalf, which is pretty accurate. She's she's magical. She's a healer. She does all sorts of things. And she starts to explain a little bit more about the mythology. And they, they learn some answers.
00:04:33:22 - 00:04:51:05
Unknown
And Warren is still very reluctant, is still very much a reluctant hero. But he's starting to get a little bit more into it. Okay. I hope this helps. I know it's interesting, listening to our writing group without actually having read what they've read, but I hope you guys are enjoying it. Thanks.
00:04:51:07 - 00:04:55:08
Unknown
Okay. Where'd you go? Okay, you're back for a second. Yeah. You're back.
00:04:55:09 - 00:05:24:11
Unknown
We lost. We got you. But now for when it's my. All right. Who is it? I did that for a second there. I think it's me. Okay. Tyler's on the chopping block, I guess. Should we say this again? We were writing group. We're showing you how to do a writing group. Yeah. Take notes. Completely unscripted. Obviously. Obviously, I.
00:05:24:13 - 00:05:41:14
Unknown
Know we'll we'll figure things out one of these days. Be good. We will say. I will say this. I want to make sure that, just to give the readers a little bit of context about being in a writer's group since, you know, we're trying to talk about that. One of the important things, and you'll notice that there's a lot of silence at times.
00:05:41:16 - 00:06:10:19
Unknown
Whoever's getting critiqued is expected to, be quiet while they're receiving their critiques to listen to what we have to say. And then once we've gone through the critiques, we don't defend ourselves. We ask clarifying questions. We give, like, if if there's genuine questions, we can answer them. But the idea isn't to defend ourselves and change our our fellow writers minds.
00:06:10:19 - 00:06:33:07
Unknown
It's to clarify so we can make sure that we're writing the best to the best of our abilities. That's one of the major things that people miss about writers groups. I would I would have to say. So as we get started and we go into Tyler's sample for this week, just to just to just to go off a little bit before you said into me.
00:06:33:09 - 00:06:47:20
Unknown
I think one of the most valuable things, at least for me, is to get better reactions to things. You know, a lot of times, like the best feedback is, oh, this kicked me out, you know, because you know, as a reader, you're trying to be super immersed and you want to be really involved with the with the story.
00:06:47:23 - 00:07:13:13
Unknown
And if something kicks you out and the author doesn't know that, the author should know that. So that's, you know, we do a lot more stuff. You know, we talk about writing principles, we talk about, things to help each other be better, kind of sometimes in general, sometimes in specific. But for me at least, I don't know if you guys agree, but that's that's kind of the most valuable thing is when when Adam says all these says all these things, says, pick me up.
00:07:13:19 - 00:07:19:11
Unknown
That's really useful. Yes. Yeah.
00:07:19:13 - 00:07:41:02
Unknown
So the and I would say on top of that, the, was, I was I had something. Where was it? Adam? Should we call you Grace. Should I just bleep out every time we call you Adam. Yes. But I don't want to feel like you're so smart like a sailor. I'm like legitimate. Do you want us to call you during these days.
00:07:41:03 - 00:07:58:09
Unknown
You know what. Let's go for that and see how it works out. Awesome. It's going to be. I'll try to get into that. Have it. I appreciate it. Sorry I ruined. What's going to help me is it's the. It's gray is your name. Yeah. On the video. So I'm. That's what I try to draw it too. There never was an Adam.
00:07:58:10 - 00:08:26:23
Unknown
Yeah. There we go. Whoo! Yeah. So, no, it's it's a writers group. Is really good at helping you find your weaknesses as a writer. And a lot of these are like, we're not giving second, third, fourth drafts. We're giving each other our first drafts. So, yeah, some of it's going to be rough. And some of the listeners might think, well, these guys are professional writers or aspiring writers that want to go professional.
00:08:27:01 - 00:08:55:11
Unknown
How can they make X mistake? Well, we make X mistake because we're just trying to get words on the page whether we're following an outline or not. So it helps to know that this is, for example, Tyler when he's using his dialog tags, he defaults to said when he's writing because it's just faster. And so we'll make sure we make note of that.
00:08:55:11 - 00:09:17:22
Unknown
So as he's doing his edits and there's revisions, he can look and say, okay, I've used said 700 times on his page, I should probably find a different one. Pretty true. Yeah. And it and it's not a, it's not a that he's a bad writer. He's just this is his very first draft and it's our responsibility to help him for his next revision.
00:09:18:00 - 00:09:42:23
Unknown
I will say it's not quite my first draft. I have been working on this for a while, but. Well, I mean, your point still stands. Yes. No, I mean, we're talking draft. I have read through the first half of Technomancer probably 20 times, so you're not getting the first draft of that is for certain. And there's still going to be things that you missed even going through it 20 times because you're just numb at this point.
00:09:43:01 - 00:10:02:20
Unknown
So and on that point, I just published a book here on unit five. It's my eighth book. My wife is reading it right now. She's like, I just found a typo and this book is out that anybody to buy? She's like, I just found a typo. And that's like, I have to accept that I'm not going in and changing the metadata.
00:10:02:20 - 00:10:19:21
Unknown
Now that's not happening. But any book, like any book, no matter how many revisions and many how many editors I've looked at, it's Murphy's Law. There's there's going to be mistakes. Something's going to sneak its way in. Yes. And, you know, that's me as an editor. Do you know, I edited the edit, edited the book, edited a book.
00:10:19:21 - 00:10:38:10
Unknown
Excuse me. And give back to the author. And she, like, sent me back, like, you know, a handful. Like, it wasn't too many. It was a handful of errors. I will say I'm pretty good at what I do. But I was like, oh, man. But it's just we're humans. And even if I does, I does even worse.
00:10:38:11 - 00:11:01:21
Unknown
So yeah, and on that point, I will say our friend and fellow author, Trista Pinkston, will occasionally make a contest out of it and offer a prize to the first person who submits a typo that she didn't know about. And one of her published works. That's a good way to get so budget free editing. Yeah. Clever girl.
00:11:01:23 - 00:11:20:13
Unknown
And yeah. All right, so we ready to get into, let's Tara, this week's do we do have it. Do you have a title yet? Nope. Nope. As of yet. Untitled work by Tyler.
00:11:20:15 - 00:11:37:23
Unknown
All right. Adam, you do want me to tell you about my working title that I had when I first started it? So my original idea for this, for this story, was to have it be like a portal pops up every week and a monster comes out. It was going to be kind of like a Buffy the Vampire Slayer Monster of the week style thing.
00:11:38:00 - 00:11:55:02
Unknown
So my working title and it's it's it's evolved past this and it doesn't fit anymore. Was monster of the week. And so I shorten it to you. So when I send you guys the files, that's why it's m-o W or whatever number. Yeah. Gotcha. Doesn't feel that. But that was such a good title. It's too bad you had to kill that.
00:11:55:04 - 00:12:13:16
Unknown
Oh, man. Even even when it fit, it wasn't going to be like. Yeah, it was just like monster. The it monster, the serial. It was actually going to be a serialized kind of thing. I was going experiment with that. But that wasn't brave enough. So, yeah, something sounds like, Patreon idea. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Short story spinoffs or something.
00:12:13:18 - 00:12:37:03
Unknown
Yeah. All right. Speaking of brave enough. Jk am I up? Is that what I'm here? Yeah, here. And you say you're up very. All right. Cool. Overall, just kind of, 50,000ft view. I loved it. I feel like, we're reaching this point in your. I don't know, you call this. You said it's about 60,000 words that you're shooting for at this point.
00:12:37:05 - 00:13:04:09
Unknown
I haven't been keeping track exactly or crunching the numbers, but it feels like we're getting into the back half for sure. Conflict is building, and your characters have already entered through at least one door of no return. And like, this is a big one that takes place in this section here. So I feel like that, that cadence between, in the last section, we have, both the good guys and the bad guys kind of shoring up their forces and preparing their, their chess pieces for the next move.
00:13:04:09 - 00:13:27:23
Unknown
And, and now we see that to start to play out for, for better and for worse and definitely for worse for your main characters, which I love jumping right into it. Then. I will say, I don't want to butter you up too much. I feel like Tyler tends to have this, like, amazing, plot. And then I have to, like, look for all these little things that I can demonstrate right off the gate.
00:13:28:01 - 00:13:47:03
Unknown
I feel like this time you had a lot of, uses of nouns that you might benefit from cleaning up a little bit. Sometimes a little vague, even in that first paragraph there, for instance, AJ pulled his truck into their usual spot by the lake. I don't know why, but that did kick me out for just a hot second.
00:13:47:05 - 00:14:12:09
Unknown
I wanted to know who was there because I was like, wait, is AJ alone in the truck? Obviously we're reading this after a week, whereas you're a normal reader would probably just be turning the page. So it'd be a lot more clear. But, I found a couple instances of that throughout that I marked in which, and they're a little bit more odorous than this one, in which you can maybe just clarify a little bit, but up to interpretation.
00:14:12:11 - 00:14:33:15
Unknown
Cool, cool, cool. Just a few little kudos. Let's see, you had a line on, page one there, the paragraph in the dialog tag beginning. And if we do see any hounds, Luke slapped the baseball bat in his hands. It wasn't convincing. That feels. That was so funny. That felt kind of like this. Like stranger Things.
00:14:33:15 - 00:14:58:01
Unknown
Like pretty and trying to be tough. Nobody else is buying it. But, you know, the reader still gets a little chuckle out of it. And I like Luke a little bit more for those little moments like that. Like he takes himself seriously. It warns, not here, you know, to protect the group. So, actually riffing off of that, I feel like this is one of the first instances we've seen one already when the group, apart from Warren is together.
00:14:58:01 - 00:15:17:09
Unknown
So we get to see what their dynamic is like a little bit without him there to protect them and be the new kid or be the crush for Lila. So that's always interesting. And then just seeing this kind of full circle moment when the gang stumbles upon, the sight of where the previous victim had been attacked and they come upon the cooler.
00:15:17:10 - 00:15:44:11
Unknown
That was kind of satisfying. Harkening back to, gosh, was it like chapter two or something towards the very beginning of the book? So I appreciated that. And gosh, there's just a lot of moments where, like, I got goosebumps reading it. So yeah, you already introduced the hounds. Obviously there's kind of a threat, but you've also, counter them with Warren's ability to fight, pretty well.
00:15:44:13 - 00:16:04:02
Unknown
But that moment when they, they see the hoof print and ages like crap, there's a writer and the reader's like, wait, writer? I think I've heard that word before. Have I? And then not too long thereafter, I mean, you get a little bit of, a backstory, for Mr. Wisley talking about the the writer in the legend, which is really cool.
00:16:04:03 - 00:16:23:14
Unknown
And then, like, almost immediately after, I'm thinking like, oh, cool. This will definitely come up later in the book. Boom. No, you hear the horn. And I'm like, okay, that's how you do it. And then I'm like thinking like, oh, and they're going to get out of here safely and go tell Warren what they found, and then they'll encounter this thing later when they have, you know, their bodyguard, essentially with them.
00:16:23:19 - 00:16:45:00
Unknown
But no, you've stripped these characters of their protection, and now they get to have this moment where they are in genuine physical and emotional peril. And it's ramped up from like the, the encounter with, like the local boy from earlier or even the hounds from earlier, like, this is, definitely a sense of escalation here, which I love.
00:16:45:02 - 00:17:14:18
Unknown
Yeah. Excellent description. I'll say that, you had a couple of moments in which you really describe, especially with the hounds. It feels so visceral. I get to. So Luke is concerned that they're naked. Right. So you get a visual? Unfortunately, you get the I don't describe I don't I don't go into detail. You keeping the readership in mind that, but man, I, you know, you can smell the B.O. coming off of them.
00:17:14:20 - 00:17:36:15
Unknown
You describe that. Yeah. Again, not in too much detail, but it's enough, right? And then you get there, like, radiating heat, is something that AJ picks up on and you're like, okay. And then, something about creaking I saw. So you're engaging like four senses. Once again, I'm still waiting to see how you're going to make use of taste, but,
00:17:36:17 - 00:18:00:13
Unknown
I was there in the moment I saw the writer, as you describe, like, the zombified flesh. And, it wasn't, like, gratuitous. It was just what the what they would have noticed in the moment. So brilliant. Let's see. Thank you. Yeah. A couple instances of, like, awkward phrasing. Like I could tell. Like Jake said, you're, you know, like, sprinting through this to to get it done.
00:18:00:15 - 00:18:17:21
Unknown
But, man. And then, you kind of have this little bit of, a cooldown when they go back with Nan, and we finally kind of get to hear Gandalf explain things, so to speak, just a little bit more, because every time we try to, the characters try to ask questions, they're written off as being pre-teens.
00:18:17:21 - 00:18:36:03
Unknown
They don't need to know anything about this. But now, Nan, after having swooped in to save them with Warren, has a legitimate reason to explain a little bit more like, okay, if I tell you this a little bit more, will you stop poking your nose into this? And it feels it feels kind of like a natural, annoyed adult response.
00:18:36:04 - 00:18:57:18
Unknown
Yeah. It's, there's no Hagrid's in here. I probably shouldn't have told you that. You know, it's everybody is pretty guarded with the information in this town. So, we, we get spoon fed these clues. And I do appreciate the pacing at which you're doing that and how it's coming out. Naturally. Overall, man, super job well done.
00:18:57:20 - 00:19:28:02
Unknown
Yeah. Appreciate it. What about you, Jessie? So, yeah, overall, this this was a good, solid section. Good scene gives us a little bit more tension. I have a lot of comments where it's. You've answered the question, but you've given us more questions. So you're keeping the narrative going. You're not ending it. You're not saying, here's all your answers.
00:19:28:03 - 00:20:00:13
Unknown
There are a couple of little things. That I put in comments, that. I like that AJ realizes he's making a bad decision, but he, like, you know, he knows that if he's not there, Luke and Layla are going to go anyway. And so he's trying to make a bad decision, less terrible by being there.
00:20:00:15 - 00:20:25:14
Unknown
That it. Yeah. Crap. There's a writer. That is an explanation and a question wrapped up in a one sentence. And like somebody like me who's who's read and studied fey and mythology. I know you've mentioned The Wild Hunt. You've mentioned hounds. Well, yeah, I know it goes along with the Wild Hunt, but not all your readers are going to.
00:20:25:14 - 00:20:49:19
Unknown
So they're going to be like, what the heck is the writer? I had to make this note. This is one of those funny times where even if you'd had spellcheck on it, wouldn't have caught it. You have feral and viscous. Oh, that are vicious. And the image of a never works. Oh, there. So I tag that. I tag that for you.
00:20:49:19 - 00:21:09:15
Unknown
I just, I, I because of when I initially read it my, my eyes filled it in and I knew you meant vicious and I wasn't going to tag it, but I was like, now that needs to be pointed out because I know he know every area in this and I've done like I've done the same thing. I've gone through a page and I've probably read it 100 times.
00:21:09:17 - 00:21:32:22
Unknown
I do my outloud reads through and I'm like, that's not what I meant at all. Oh, so yeah, I just had the I had to tag that. And again, it's, it's, it's right in this beautiful narrative where you're talking about everything. And then it's like, oh yeah, this is I that would have snuck its way into the final.
00:21:32:22 - 00:21:54:03
Unknown
That was that was in my voice. Do you guys ever do that trick? Jk you mentioned you're like, reading a loud pass through. Do you ever do that trick where you have Microsoft read it in that terrible mechanical Microsoft voice so that it catches? I've been tempted to a few times. Something else you can do is, is just put it into a different font as you're reading it.
00:21:54:03 - 00:22:17:19
Unknown
Yeah. And that just the, just the, the difference will make it hope you will help you catch things down. So yeah. My last edit as always my out loud read through or I will read word for word. And I make sure like I have to force myself to read every single word that's on the page, so my mind doesn't fill in what I think is supposed to be there and what I thought I wrote.
00:22:17:21 - 00:22:23:09
Unknown
And it catches a lot more that way.
00:22:23:11 - 00:22:47:08
Unknown
Anyway, thank you for what I was. That was very helpful. Again, I, so this time around, I didn't I didn't tag you on every place where I felt like action needed. There were just a few where it really I was like, you really need something here? An action beat or. What do you talk about? Yeah.
00:22:47:08 - 00:23:04:21
Unknown
And action and action after, like a like a dialog. There are a couple, like a lot of, you can get away with it. It's not. It's in this section. It's going to be fine because if you put too much in, it's going to drag it down. But there are few spots where it needed it. I like the line, actually, AJ thought to himself.
00:23:04:21 - 00:23:16:03
Unknown
They didn't have to imagine because it was happening right now. It's like that. No, that's that's. Yep.
00:23:16:05 - 00:23:44:14
Unknown
I like that you have them unable to get away from the hounds by themselves. Warren beat one like one on one, even when he was kind of tripping. And these three didn't stand a chance. So it gives you that perspective in the Warren. The paragraph where the writer shows up. I loved it because, again, like gray was mentioning, you give enough and allow the reader to fill in the rest.
00:23:44:15 - 00:24:07:16
Unknown
Like, I can picture what's going on here, just from the details you gave us and you didn't drag it out. You didn't belabor the point. It was really good. And then the paragraph where they're dragging them into the edge of the water and you get this, this panic feel of everything that's going on. That paragraph hit really, really well.
00:24:07:18 - 00:24:37:18
Unknown
I liked it because it really ratchets up the tension. These three didn't stand a chance. And this proves it. The line that really spoke to me, though, is when the writer says, let the line speak, and I know what the word kind means. I know where I'm like, I know that. And so to yeah, it's a terrifying thing to hear a superior creature call you a herd animal.
00:24:37:21 - 00:25:05:08
Unknown
You're fodder. You're. Yeah. So that was a good choice. Let's see here. I thought that word meant child. That, Yeah. That and you get, you get a, you get one line, where he says bleed. You don't need an action beat there. You don't need anything else. There. That one word coming from the writer is perfect.
00:25:05:10 - 00:25:25:17
Unknown
So I congratulate you on that. Thank you. Let's see here. Honestly, that there's not a lot of and partially this is I was going to try to do it and give you another read through, but I ended up having a migraine or and I and I did give you like 4000 words to read. I said, but it was that's the thing.
00:25:25:17 - 00:25:55:01
Unknown
It didn't feel like 4000 words. It felt it actually felt shorter because it went through the action really well. Nothing really dragged the narrative down. Nothing really pulled the reader out. I mean, little things. Yeah, but that's what I'm supposed to be doing. I like that that you you show that Luke, Layla and AJ have book smarts.
00:25:55:03 - 00:26:23:13
Unknown
Like the one that fell nearly at AJ's. One felt the heat, and he nearly pukes when he sees the misshapen ness of the things jar. Layla straight up passes out, which they have a theoretical knowledge of violence, of magic, of fey, of bad things. You know, they've been told the boogeyman stories. Warren, on the other hand, has lived the boogeyman stories.
00:26:23:13 - 00:26:48:02
Unknown
In a way, he is the beginning. Yeah, he's. Yeah. And and you get this. You get this contrast of Warren gets attacked by a hound. He's freaked out, but he also kicks the crap out of it. These guys get attacked by a hound. They freak out. And if it wasn't for Nana and Warren, they would be dead. And it's a great contrast.
00:26:48:04 - 00:27:22:17
Unknown
Especially after Warren's fight with the hound. Let's see here, I will say this, I like that you had the sheriff show up because. It it's important for his character in this moment to show up and intervene. Because we think of him as the bad guy. A lot of times, as we're reading through this, but. And I think this is what you're going for and correct.
00:27:22:17 - 00:27:46:09
Unknown
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but he's not so much the bad guy as he's got a different he. His means are his means. He wants treats and same ends just by different means. And they don't agree with his means necessarily. And so for him to show up and just say them, I mean, he helped save their lives clearly.
00:27:46:11 - 00:28:18:07
Unknown
And whether there's alter your motives or not, we'll find out later. But he did intervene. So it gives him that that human side that is necessary in villains like that or antagonist. I should say, necessarily call him a villain. Let's see here. I like it like you said, Gandalf explains a little bit more. I, I like that you finally explain why his name is AJ.
00:28:18:09 - 00:28:44:23
Unknown
Because if I had had a name like his, I would also, buy into my initials. Let's see here that, and again, Warren is sticking to the. No, I'm not getting involved. I think that's important. It'll be interesting to see how you get him involved, because that's going to be the question that's in the back of my mind is, how is Warren actually going to get involved?
00:28:44:23 - 00:29:12:15
Unknown
Is he going to stay reluctant? Because I know you said this is going to be part one of three is the ideal. So, I mean, he could stay reluctantly involved throughout all of book one and still be okay. In my mind. But it'll be it'll be interesting. I like that Lila steps in between him and Luke to like you give her, that moment of knock it off.
00:29:12:17 - 00:29:33:01
Unknown
She gets her. She shows that she is she is not, She's not an idiot. Let's see here. Anything else? Hey, I hit this part where they're going through the description, and I kind of didn't pick up on anything that needed to be mentioned because it just was flowing. It was. It was a story. It was a narrative.
00:29:33:01 - 00:29:39:01
Unknown
So you did. I mean, that worked really well.
00:29:39:03 - 00:29:51:09
Unknown
And then let's see here the, the the director.
00:29:51:11 - 00:30:03:03
Unknown
Now that's pretty much it. Yeah. Overall, there are a couple of little things here and there. Nothing like major. There was no glaring.
00:30:03:04 - 00:30:22:06
Unknown
Continuity errors or personality quirks. You like. What the heck is going on? It all fit. It all worked. It all flowed. It kept me interested. It kept me going I like, I like where the story is going. I like what you're doing with it. Again, it'll be interesting to see what it's like to read it like straight through.
00:30:22:08 - 00:30:47:23
Unknown
I very nearly went back and reread last weeks and then read this week's, just so I can feel the the flow between the two narratives. But yeah, it's you're. Yeah, on your way. Doing great. Thank you. You know, can I add, just Jesse going back through, reminding me of a few things. I love the personality of the the writer.
00:30:48:01 - 00:31:12:18
Unknown
He seems a little bit one note, which is totally fine. Like, he's so self-satisfied, like, I mean, he seems to just be motivated completely by taking pleasure, like, you know, the thrill of the hunt. It's kind of like the legend actually is come to life. Like it's kind of accurate in a way. And the way that he's, he's totally fine with, like letting his enemies kind of like, regroup so that he can stand back and watch, like, okay, like, I'd like this to be a little bit of a challenge.
00:31:12:18 - 00:31:32:21
Unknown
I'm kind of bored at the moment. Like, I really appreciate that. You know, him coming on the scene this late, you're able to, in the small space of time, give him inject so much personality into him. And then I forgot to mention the fact that we, once more get to see Warren from another POV. He is really cool when he goes into berserker mode, because you're like, should I?
00:31:32:22 - 00:31:49:01
Unknown
That's right. Maybe I should be afraid of this kid. Like he is kind of, almost a killer, you know? So that was kind of neat to see. Warren gets a break, you know, like he was a reasonable one. He made the smart choice. He stayed at home. Okay, he's going to go rescue them. Now. He gets to fight, though, like he doesn't. Z
00:31:49:03 - 00:32:05:15
Unknown
You know, he gets to break the rules because he has a valid excuse. And even though none of that is, you know, running through his head because this isn't his POV, like it's just kind of neat to see from the outside looking in like he's just frenzied and kind of enjoying this moment in a weird way, at least during the fight.
00:32:05:17 - 00:32:27:16
Unknown
It's kind of his M.O. yeah, he doesn't want to, but he does enjoy, like, everything. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Couple of questions. So we've talked a lot about using, like, archaic language, trying to make it seem natural. The writer is my kind of. I one guy in this book who does that did it. How did it seem to you?
00:32:27:18 - 00:32:48:05
Unknown
He doesn't talk a lot. I know, but yeah, like, other than, like putting the vowel line and that in which I think would be too heavy handed. Yeah. I don't want to do that. To me it felt fine. Like it felt like like I said, using the word kind of lets us know that. Okay. Yeah, there's this dude.
00:32:48:07 - 00:33:15:08
Unknown
Dude's old, but if he's been sort of on this side for long enough and he's heard enough people and interacted with enough people, his linguistic habits might have shifted a little bit. So it makes sense that he's not doing, you know, old English personally. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to fault you because he's not speaking Gaelic or something like I like.
00:33:15:09 - 00:33:34:05
Unknown
That'd be cool. Sprinkle in a couple of words. And, either we understand them through context clues, or you already know what they are like. You understanding this apparently common term, kind. And I didn't know what that was, and that's totally fine, because it was just kind of there for texture, and it worked for that for me.
00:33:34:07 - 00:33:51:10
Unknown
And it didn't really matter that you thought it was children because that that, I mean, that still fits in and still hopefully it still felt like an old way of, of of saying that even though. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. I don't really have too many other questions. I was really looking forward to sharing this section. Yeah.
00:33:51:11 - 00:34:20:03
Unknown
It is. Oh, it's, they it's a good section. It really is it. It's one of those action beats that really it goes beyond what happened with Warren because with Warren it felt sort of like a freak thing. This felt more deliberate, like the scene we get at the beginning with Amy, this felt more like like a threat, like bad, not random freak accident.
00:34:20:05 - 00:34:49:02
Unknown
So it ups the stakes, in my opinion. Good. Did I give Nana too much of an old lady name? Now that you finally hear the first name in this one, it's it's. I know I missed it. Oh, Edith, you've. No, no, I think that's I think that's it. Cool. No, I don't think anything else. Any other questions? No, not.
00:34:49:05 - 00:35:11:04
Unknown
No, not really. Thanks, guys. Cool. Yeah. Thank you. That was awesome. Yeah. All right. Jesse, who is, next up on the chopping block? I think it's me, because I think I went last, last time. So we. So we're just kind of moving backwards. So q j c.
00:35:11:06 - 00:35:38:07
Unknown
And I'm back. This is future Jay-Z again. A little bit of context on the scene that, the guys have been going through this week. It's a, slower scene. It's not, part of the main action. It's a secondary storytelling scene. Giving, giving you a chance to see into the private lives of the characters. We meet.
00:35:38:08 - 00:36:32:12
Unknown
Let's see here. This is sort of not quite midway through the book. We meet. Jessica. Eve and Jessica's sister, Jennifer's good friend, Cora. Cora is also an exceptional. She works as the head of security for a museum in Davenport. And they play Dungeons Dragons and other role playing games together. The scene is in Eve's perspective because one of the things that Eve deals with as the first self-aware artificial intelligence is her memories that are programed to tell her that she's 23 years old, where in reality, her sum total of lived experience is about a year.
00:36:32:14 - 00:37:09:05
Unknown
And she occasionally struggles with fitting in this chapter also gets a chance to meet the main character from her unit, who have encountered a few times in other selections. Ace. Ace is, for lack of a better description, my world's version of Superman or Supergirl. Her powers are far beyond every other exceptional, but I like giving opportunities for the readers to see her in a different role.
00:37:09:07 - 00:37:28:17
Unknown
Outside of work, outside of being, a law enforcement officer. So, Eve turns to her for a little bit of help. So that's what this week's selection is about.
00:37:28:19 - 00:37:52:00
Unknown
Awesome. And you want me to go first since you you to fish with me, then? Yeah. Yeah, that'd be great. As always, enjoying the world building. Enjoy learning about these guys as powers. I like that you kind of. You're you're. I feel like you're kind of trying to, give a nod to the readers of of the other book.
00:37:52:00 - 00:38:16:00
Unknown
The other book that's going on at the same time. Is this I think you could even do a little bit more give, like, more specific details when ace comes to talk to Eve. I don't know what's going on in the other either in the other book, but if she's coming from a fight, I don't know, describing rumpled clothes or something, because I obviously she's not going to be here because she's super, super girl.
00:38:16:02 - 00:38:40:12
Unknown
Basically. Yes. But like, I think little specific head nods to your, your your readers who have read other books would be really cool. So I like that. Questions about alter egos if they're real or just pretend. I thought that was an interesting quirk of, or I shouldn't say quirk, because quirks are an actual thing in your in your books.
00:38:40:14 - 00:38:55:20
Unknown
An interesting, flavor for Cora. So I think, I don't know if that needs more explanation or not. It was just something that I was wondering about, like whether it's like an actual thing that she has an alter ego or if it's just that she's.
00:38:55:22 - 00:39:25:03
Unknown
Separating herself from work. And either way, it's not going to affect too many things. The biggest critique I have is this whole conversation that Eve has with ace and kind of leading up to it, feels a little bit forced. I like that we're getting a more characterization from Eve. It still took me embarrassingly long to realize that we were in Eve's perspective, and when I look back, it should have been obvious, but I'm just I just expect to be in Jessica's for some reason.
00:39:25:03 - 00:40:03:15
Unknown
But that's that. That was more on me than on you, honestly. But yeah, I didn't. I didn't love that whole section. And I couldn't really tell you why. I wondered if there needed to be to be something else, to give it stakes to give it. I don't know, like, maybe because she's having this kind of existential crisis, she starts, what's the term for it when the computer glitching out or something like that?
00:40:03:17 - 00:40:25:18
Unknown
That I think that might add a flavor to it, which would make it feel more pressing. As it stands and obviously she is a she is a one year old technically, even though she's, mentally an adult, it felt just kind of like she was being like a moody teenager, which is which is probably what you're going for.
00:40:25:18 - 00:40:49:00
Unknown
But I don't know. Now, I was hoping I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. Yeah, that's. I left, I left a final comment to try to get my thoughts together in there, and I said that maybe I'll have more to say tonight when we started that because I, I read I read this earlier today, and I really don't.
00:40:49:00 - 00:41:10:06
Unknown
I'm just I just again, this is me giving my emotional reaction to it. And you know, we talked about last time how like, you were probably due for some kind of action and it was kind of slower, but that's not really the issue with, with that sequence. But I love what you're trying to do with it because I do want to get more from Eve.
00:41:10:06 - 00:41:32:10
Unknown
I do want to know more about her and what's going on with her, but I just needed something else. Hopefully gray will come in and and enlighten us on what it needs. But, that's what I was thinking. You have this other part, when ace, when her powers go off and the natural law shift, I want specificity.
00:41:32:10 - 00:41:54:06
Unknown
Yeah, I want to know what that means. If there's, like, tremors or something like that. I think we talked a little bit about that some of those last time or the time before, when natural laws are being weird around Eve. I think last time. Yeah, I think it was, yeah, yeah. So just just being specific with that, having concrete details.
00:41:54:08 - 00:42:16:11
Unknown
Yeah. I like we're meeting more of their friends. We're getting this the sense of a network of of exceptionals. It seems like they're just the cool kids in this, in this city in the world, which is I'm sure is fairly accurate for for who they are, being jealous of how big and tall they are and young and good looking.
00:42:16:12 - 00:42:45:03
Unknown
Right. And I was just thinking, like, I haven't had any time to edit this week. I was like, man, if I was a freaking exceptional, I didn't have to sleep. I'd be done already. But yeah, I like I like that she has these relationships. I like that Eve has these relationships that she has is to kind of look up to as a as a mother figure, as a as a, as a motherly end, I guess.
00:42:45:05 - 00:43:15:13
Unknown
It I, I like that there's kind of an emotional core to this, essentially a robot. Yeah, I like I like emotional robots. I got a teacher that says that clip. It. That's the name of our podcast. I like the emotional robots. So that's funny.
00:43:15:15 - 00:43:38:10
Unknown
But. Yeah. Okay. Enlighten us. Please, man. Okay, so, Jesse, I have some thoughts for you, and I'm going to share them one into another because I think that's the best language to speak in, given the genre that you've established in the world. Perfect. All right. So we're on even footing. So I will just mention that I was a huge avid reader of Marvel Comics, years ago.
00:43:38:10 - 00:44:03:02
Unknown
Not so much recently, especially a writer named Brian Michael Bendis. He had some good runs on New Avengers, ultimate Spider-Man, Daredevil, and particularly his work with, New Avengers. When they Marvel handed the keys over to their marquee franchise to him. He did a great job. I thought of kind of establishing this world in which you had a core team of heroes that know each other and that were part of the book.
00:44:03:04 - 00:44:22:00
Unknown
But other heroes would pop in and out of that, just kind of like I mentioned. And I think that's what's happening, like at the beginning, for instance, with Titanic or Korra or. Yeah, okay. Same person. Okay. Yeah. And it did take me a second to clue into that. I thought it was actually funny how she was like, was she referring to herself as a third person, or is that.
00:44:22:02 - 00:44:34:06
Unknown
Yes. Okay. That's the thing that Megalomaniacs do. Yes. She's okay. Sorry. That's. Yeah. Neither here nor there. Yeah.
00:44:34:07 - 00:44:50:06
Unknown
Which is funny. If that's the case, then, anyway, I so I like, I like that approach, to kind of have people pop in and out of the book that are part of their world, but not necessarily a part of this story. And you do that with ace in this chapter. You do that with Korra.
00:44:50:08 - 00:45:08:12
Unknown
I like these nods to other things that are going on, not even just in the universe, because it sounds like comic book, but in there, you know, the lives of their friends and compatriots. Yeah. To that end, like, there's this line I'll always remember New Avengers about Iron Fist telling people when they're staying in his apartment, like guys who's not washing their dishes.
00:45:08:12 - 00:45:25:22
Unknown
If you mess a dish, you clean a dish, a wolverine, and and it it goes a long way towards humanizing them. And I feel like you have so much potential to do that with what you've set up here. I like the fact that they're getting together. I didn't expect the fact that they're gamers, which adds, no, you know, like a fun little dimension.
00:45:26:00 - 00:45:43:00
Unknown
I mean, you could kind of mention it. I don't know how interested Eve is in that kind of thing, but, like, you could you could get into some details here that would kind of be fun. Or not. But I just want to say that I appreciate that. And you could you could even lean into that harder, and that's cool.
00:45:43:02 - 00:46:09:04
Unknown
Okay. So getting into the this POV. Yeah, a little bit more. This is Eve. I feel like you have the potential here. And there's a couple, of instances, one of which I remember in particular, in which I thought to myself, okay, this is cool. It this is Eve. I wish that she would describe things, maybe using more empirical details because the machine part of her might be coming out more.
00:46:09:06 - 00:46:28:15
Unknown
Sorry, I'm not going in particular order, but I'll just jump down to the scene where she's talking to ace on the roof and see if I can find that real quick. Here and have specific comments.
00:46:28:17 - 00:46:49:07
Unknown
Okay. So, on the roof, the shadows were getting longer, but it was still oppressively warm on that point. I'm like, you know, how does Eve know that? It's more like, does she have sweat glands? And I assume she does. Or are there other barometers that she would use to judge maybe the exact temperature or the humidity, like, you know, just things you can play with?
00:46:49:09 - 00:47:13:07
Unknown
She probably could start using. Yeah. And I don't know if like, she would actively try to stuff down that sort of data analysis because she wants herself to be more human, particularly in this vulnerable moment. But, things like that, that you have the potential to bring out, or even other details, such as when, Eve, with some reluctance, Eve sent a message to her Aunt Ace.
00:47:13:12 - 00:47:32:19
Unknown
Hey, can we talk for a bit? And even in that one line, I'm like, okay, was that a text? Was that over a wireless network? Was that telepathic? Was that all of the above? You know, like, these are interesting little tidbits and like, hey, tell me more. That would make this more of a unique Eve POV chapter, potentially.
00:47:32:21 - 00:48:02:17
Unknown
And and I'm curious, actually, how was she contacting her? Technically it's through. I refer to the smartphones as devices. They're a lot more advanced than even ours. Smartphones. And she just can connect to hers without having to, like, pick it up and text because she's a robot. Yeah. So it was via. It was via, like, their equivalent of a cell network through her device.
00:48:02:19 - 00:48:39:02
Unknown
Cool, cool. I was kind of thinking it might be something like that, but. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay. I'll just mention, like, two lines below that. Eve dithered over what she wanted to say. I love that word, but that's just me. It's a the word. Yes. Okay. As to kind of, some of the things that Tyler pointed out, when this problem of trying to, Eve feeling, you know, I don't wanna say dehumanized, but feeling left out, feeling unable to read the sarcasm of a group, feeling like she's not quite fitting in.
00:48:39:04 - 00:48:59:16
Unknown
I like all that. I can. I can read that. That's what's happening in this chapter. I like the kind of emotional immaturity that would be inherent in a character like this. That's cool. And the fact that they do have to bring in someone like ace or they have that relationship and they kind of utilize it, and it's like, oh, no big deal, sister.
00:48:59:18 - 00:49:18:23
Unknown
I the read that I get of ace is she's kind of like the Captain America of this world. And I don't think you've ever said that explicitly. So yeah, I think that's just kind of comes across with her presence. Which is awesome. The the bulk of the conversation I felt might have been a little too on the nose.
00:49:19:01 - 00:49:38:14
Unknown
And I don't know, could think of some strategies to, I don't want to say add complexity of the conversation, but maybe a new angle. I don't know. Eve seems so upfront with her insecurities. Like she's completely invasive and the fact that she's like, these are my problems. Here you go. This is like, this is how you solve your problems.
00:49:38:14 - 00:49:44:10
Unknown
Here you go. That's obviously oversimplifying it, but,
00:49:44:12 - 00:50:15:01
Unknown
And that's not quite doing it justice, but I feel like there's maybe some other angle that you can work to make that a little bit less straightforward or almost like hurdles in the conversation to hurdles to those emotional barriers. I don't know. That kind of makes sense. Yeah. No, I get I get what you're saying. Part of that, of writing flaw on my part that I am aware of, it's just because you're too.
00:50:15:01 - 00:50:38:12
Unknown
You're too honest, Jesse. And you never talk around your feelings that haven't gone to counseling many times. I don't I don't like I'm very blunt about it because I. And that's part of my problem, I realized, thanks to you guys, is I don't like making my characters make overt like I don't like when they act normal, essentially like, act like a person would like.
00:50:38:12 - 00:51:03:02
Unknown
I struggle to make to allow my characters to make stupid choices that they would probably make. And so that's something that I need to work on. Obviously this conversation is an example of that. Like, even just tells tells it like it is. And part of that I, I think I was trying to convey that, that she's not human.
00:51:03:04 - 00:51:21:20
Unknown
Maybe it didn't work though. Like to she doesn't ask. She doesn't. Yeah. I had the thought that maybe that was where I had, I actually said the exact same thing that Adam said, it was like it was a little bit on the nose. I said that in the comment, I think, I think there is a way that you can, you can do this.
00:51:21:20 - 00:51:43:18
Unknown
I think you just maybe have to. And again, I talk about throwaway lines because storylines can be really, impactful. Just. Maybe have somebody comment that she's being really straightforward or. Well, it's such a relief that you don't talk around your feelings like a regular teenager was or something like that, which would make her feel even more out of place.
00:51:43:18 - 00:52:04:08
Unknown
Wait, wait, I'm not a regular teenager. Yeah. I don't don't have to do that. Maybe you have to have a Cora or somebody or something to do that because. And I. And that was another thing. I think, it does become clear why she feels closest to ace and why she can talk to ace about things like that, because aces is, like, far above the most powerful person.
00:52:04:08 - 00:52:25:06
Unknown
Right? Essentially, yeah. So she also kind of feels, that we lost great for Sophie. Last story comes back. Okay. Hey, hey, hey, who lost you for a second? Sorry about that. Not sure what that was. Good. I lost my train of that, but,
00:52:25:08 - 00:52:46:18
Unknown
My bad. Oh, About ace, I think that could be. That could be made a little bit clearer. Maybe even before they even start their conversation. Like, Eve could could have, like, an internal dialog about why she talks, you know, maybe not trying to be like, info dumpy, but, yeah, you know, walk that fine line as we always try to do.
00:52:46:20 - 00:53:12:16
Unknown
Yeah. That's one of the things like I, I'm making notes to go back through and do is, is give brief mentions of things that happen in book one. Runaway. So yeah, that's that because that's one of those things that gets like it's a full blown explanation. Spoiler alert. In runaway, how Ace and Eve's relationship was created exists.
00:53:12:16 - 00:53:42:06
Unknown
Why it exists, is one that your revelations from runaway. So I do need to reference that. You're right. And. Yeah, just just just stakes. I mean, I know it's it's sometimes hard to be mean to your characters, but you kind of need to be. Yeah, yeah, I'm. I'm probably a little too nice with my characters. I read a the very first book series.
00:53:42:06 - 00:54:10:02
Unknown
I did not finish, because the author was just so brutal with her main character, that I was like, this is you're not giving this dude a reprieve. I can't handle it. Yeah, and it's not the same, like people say. Well, The Dresden Files is like that. You love The Dresden Files and I'm. Well, no, Harry gets reprieves.
00:54:10:02 - 00:54:37:13
Unknown
Harry has moments of levity throughout the book. Yes, the stakes keep rising as the series goes along, and things do get harder. But he does get moments of reprieve. He has moments of where he can just take a breath, where, he can. He can be just normal for a little while. But this series, none of that. So that's one of those another one of those writer weaknesses.
00:54:37:15 - 00:54:51:02
Unknown
So I totally get that. I mean, we have we have so much grimdark. Like, that's kind of the same reason I didn't finish the Game of Thrones series. I got to like book four is like this. It's way too. This is way too brutal. But yeah, Harry is a really good example is let me into the last couple books.
00:54:51:02 - 00:55:10:10
Unknown
He's he's genuinely a happy person, even though he's had all these terrible things. You know, he gets the crap beat out of him every single book. And when you read, like one of the short stories where he doesn't get the cut, it almost feels weird because you're used to him having, you know, a broken bone or something that he's.
00:55:10:14 - 00:55:42:04
Unknown
And yeah, bruises and cuts and all sorts of things. Great. I don't know if you've read, I forget if you've read The Dresden Files, but I have not had the pleasure yet. Yeah, yeah, they're really good. They're good. But I think, I think that would be a good balance to kind of shoot for is, is to treat your characters and maybe not physically, because I know you've kind of already made most of them involved and vulnerable, but we've talked about like emotional stakes before, and Ed's making sure that they do have something to lose.
00:55:42:06 - 00:55:58:19
Unknown
And I think you have done that in some ways, Jesse. I can't remember if, Eve's inability to catch the cyber criminal has kind of made her feel a little insecure because she's supposed to be, you know, she's supposed to be the best at what she does, and yet she's unable, for some reason, to catch this guy.
00:55:58:19 - 00:56:19:19
Unknown
So you can kind of keep not playing that up, but, you know, leaning into that a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, maybe it's just that, I don't know, maybe there's just a lack of conflict, like, the resolution happens too easily in the conversation. But anyway, I like that. It's still like she says she's still not at home.
00:56:19:19 - 00:56:41:12
Unknown
Percent like it didn't actually resolve it, but it it got it closer. And that's, you know, that's kind of all you can really hope for is, the character arc in this book to get a little bit better after a conversation. Yeah. And there are a couple of, some funny things in the conversation, like, Eve says most people my age can't even, can't even crawl yet.
00:56:41:14 - 00:57:02:19
Unknown
And it's like, okay. It's like. So she does get some sarcasm. Some of this has rubbed off on her. So that's cool. And I love that. Like, who is she talking to when she said that was it, we should talking to ace or she's talking to ace. Yeah, I love the aces. Doesn't even think about it because she just she she has in your mind that Eve is is a certain age and she, she's like she acts like an 18 year old is.
00:57:02:21 - 00:57:22:17
Unknown
And I remember that right. She's supposed to be early, like 20, 21 ish. Like the same kind of kind of close to a little a little little younger than Jessica. As what she was programed to be and I love, I love that it wasn't even the thought like, oh, I'm talking to a one year old. That's not what she's thinking about.
00:57:22:19 - 00:57:52:14
Unknown
She is treating her as, as mother and I, I also really liked how they came in and talking about Jessica's relationship with her, how there is that the slight tension potentially. Yeah, yeah, the family dynamic is interesting and you can keep playing. And with that, I mean, ace, you say specifically that she goes into mom mode when she has to, like, okay, I see that, you know, and then, Jessica is like the big sister and, you know, you have the extended friend group.
00:57:52:14 - 00:58:08:14
Unknown
And so that's kind of cool of the way that you're playing with that. And I think that just goes back to what I was talking about at the beginning, like, with the Avengers thing, like it just humanizing them on some level is, is cool to see. You know, as long as you're balancing that with the action and all that.
00:58:08:14 - 00:58:40:15
Unknown
But but now hopefully there will be, human stakes and will really care when they're being thrown off of a building. But yeah. Sweet. I think that's pretty much all I had. Yeah. Any questions for us, Jesse? I don't think so. Answered some of the questions I had. I will say, when it comes to alter egos, I not good at addressing.
00:58:40:15 - 00:59:16:18
Unknown
Yeah. Like they exist. And sort of the, the idea is you have so exceptionals have two ways of treating their powers. And this gets explained better in the main series, and I need to bring it in in this one, you can register when you turn 18. Means you enter certain information into a central database, and that allows you to get a job using your powers, allows you to use powers on sort of a day to day basis.
00:59:16:20 - 00:59:50:22
Unknown
And if you choose not to register, you're not allowed to use your powers unless you're under direct supervision of a of the head. And so when some people register, they choose to take on an alter ego. So their name. Yeah. And so with Cora, what she did, she registered, she took on an alter ego. And so if she's not in that alter ego, people aren't allowed to ask her questions that would relate to the alter ego.
00:59:51:00 - 01:00:15:11
Unknown
It's not so much that it's a secret identity. It's it's a more extreme. This is work life. This is private life. It's a private life. You you I don't I'm not okay person. And there's a scene later where, like where I emphasize that a little bit more, because they do actually have to ask her work questions.
01:00:15:13 - 01:00:44:05
Unknown
But. And with the, with the heroes, the people that work for the Ed, they do have a genuine, alter ego that, excuse me, that, they can switch to, that gives them a little bit of insulation. Some of them, some of the more prominent ones, it's more of, Well, yeah, they have an alter ego, but they don't really use it because everybody knows who they are.
01:00:44:06 - 01:01:05:15
Unknown
So it's more of a legal thing rather than like, she's actually, like switching personalities or something like, what was that severance is that, the TV show where they don't remember their work life and then when they're working things of their home life. It's not. It's not like that right now. And it's it. Yeah, it's it's just, it's like that extreme.
01:01:05:17 - 01:01:36:06
Unknown
If I'm not in this persona, I'm not working. That's pretty cool. And it's it's optional. Like, there's some people like construction workers. That's a big one where exceptionals are used. They're just construction workers. They don't really. They don't need they don't feel the need. But. Anything else? Yeah. I remember, put me right on a sticky note.
01:01:36:06 - 01:02:01:04
Unknown
JK to to be mean to you. Yeah. Be be mean to your darling. I'm working. I'm working on that. I'm working on that. And it's not like you have to be sadistic about it, but, and that's like the. I have certain lines I won't cross. I. Yeah, for sure, for myself, like, in, in here. A unit in the main series.
01:02:01:06 - 01:02:38:18
Unknown
Nobody's allowed to hurt Ace's family because of, Because of the character I've established for her and how she would react to that. Superman gone dark. Yeah. What's the what's the what's the comic, where he takes injustice? Yeah, where he takes over the world and. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And with Jessica, one of the things I'm going to try to emphasize is she has sort of the equivalent of The Incredible Hulk rage power.
01:02:38:19 - 01:03:06:22
Unknown
I'm going to start putting more emphasis on that to where it's a very reactionary power, and she has to maintain a certain level of control, or she can become a danger. Yeah. So I think that's a really good example of a of, of stakes for her. Yeah. Like in that, that, first scene where she crashes into the building after the explosion.
01:03:07:00 - 01:03:44:03
Unknown
I'm going to adjust that where she's not like, yeah, blown eardrums isn't the problem. It's the fact that rage has completely taken over, and she knows if she does anything, move, barely breathe anything, that it's going to explode out. And so, that's what I'm going to start working in two scenes. Yeah, yeah. And if she's in the the role of the like the emotional role of the big sister to Eve, those stakes are amplified because she's trying to present this very professional, not just professional, but emotionally stable self that Eve can kind of model herself after.
01:03:44:03 - 01:04:03:17
Unknown
So that's even that's even better. Okay, good. Now I just got to do it justice. Right? That's the hard part. You got this. You got the eggs. I appreciate that. All of it. Okay. Gray Q two, future gray.
01:04:03:19 - 01:04:22:10
Unknown
Hey, what's up, fellow Gryffindor? This is Gray Alder with a recap of the brilliant piece that I've handed over to the guys this week. All right, so I submitted a single chapter set in the same book as last week's entry. This chapter takes place pretty early in the story. Right now it's sitting at about chapter four, but it's still early days, so that could change.
01:04:22:12 - 01:04:45:12
Unknown
So this action picks up with our main protagonist and POV character, nen, as he continues to travel the main highway away from the capital city and toward. Or is it through the dangerous Aria's forest on his way to complete an unspecified mission? Now, as the guys discovered last week, Nian is also stills the POV character from earlier, but I'm sure that won't get confusing at all.
01:04:45:18 - 01:05:04:22
Unknown
So Nin bumps into another character while walking a foreigner named Gil, who is also a member of the chaplain's military organization, which you might also recall from earlier. Now, as Nin bumps into this guy, the catch is that he doesn't know whether he's supposed to kill the guy or protect him. His orders are kind of vague, and hopefully that ambivalence makes things interesting here.
01:05:05:04 - 01:05:07:20
Unknown
But let's see what the guys thought, shall we?
01:05:07:22 - 01:05:16:20
Unknown
What's up? Guys, I have a British accent now here to talk about the lovely and, you know, I'm leaving that to,
01:05:16:22 - 01:05:44:19
Unknown
Boy, I'm not editing anything out if I can help, but I worry that this is going to be so boring. There's going to be so many. Yeah, let me just find the comment. Hopefully both of you or. Yeah. Both of you to assume that we'll have comments under if it's, All right. Let me have it.
01:05:44:19 - 01:06:12:16
Unknown
Let me have it. Yeah. This. You want to take it? Yeah, I'll take it. I'll start it off. I liked this section. One of the things I was thinking of, and I did, like I mentioned with Tyler's, I was thinking of what happened last time. I read this. And I think one of the things that I'm trying to start taking into consideration, and this is partly because I read like six books at a time.
01:06:12:18 - 01:06:30:14
Unknown
And so it might be a week or more before I pick one up again. And if I pick this up, am I going to be able to pick the narrative back up and I can pick the narrative back up like I'm not lost. So since this is you have a I don't know if this is an actual chapter transition or not, but it's there.
01:06:30:16 - 01:06:51:17
Unknown
I'm picking the narrative back up. I'm following back in. So you've got the signposts that a reader will need to get back into your book if they've put it down for a little while, which is important. I like that you're you use a term like prefrontal frontal cortex and then explain that it's an atrium thing that he calls it that.
01:06:51:19 - 01:07:29:13
Unknown
And so it gives us a, a feeling that atrium has advanced knowledge that the common man doesn't have. So it doesn't feel like a modernism. It's a no, this guy's really smart. He calls things different things because he's really smart. And people have been doing that for centuries. Scholars do that. They talk different. I mean, so you get a I mean, I'm not saying you're getting I'm I don't want to say you're getting away with it, but at the same time, you're getting away with using that term because it makes sense, that,
01:07:29:14 - 01:07:56:18
Unknown
I like that you put in stakes for the magic system, you know, not. Dan says no restorative measure he could think of. Now, say, for a good night of deepest sleep, there are stakes to using the magic. What he's gone through is draining his body. He needs actual sleep, so that's good. That's important.
01:07:56:19 - 01:08:29:23
Unknown
Let's see here. I like how dangerous you make the forest feel. And this description. And it's not that. Oh, it's dangerous because you're outside and it's the woods and there's wild animals. No, there is something in the forest that wants to hurt things. Like there's a presence there that people feel and know, and they know that it is a place that is not just dangerous because you're outside, but it's dangerous because of where it is.
01:08:30:01 - 01:08:41:20
Unknown
So that you establish that, in my opinion, really well, with those few paragraphs, especially the line it waited.
01:08:41:22 - 01:09:18:05
Unknown
I caught a little typo. You you put. He shook myself. I cut that for you. Let's see here that it, So I like when, Gail shows up and you emphasize that he is white with italics and everything, because then it's like, oh, okay. So everybody else we've been seeing their skin tone is at the very least quite a bit darker.
01:09:18:07 - 01:09:44:09
Unknown
And so that, that that gives us a cultural or, regional idea of what these people look like. Do I think you could have established it earlier? No, I think putting it here like it, it's like, oh, okay. This is and it's going to make the reader pause and it might even make him go back and read again to see and then realize and change and change what they're seeing.
01:09:44:09 - 01:10:13:11
Unknown
And I think that's I think that's a good thing. Let's see here. Caught him double smiling. And a line. Double smiling. Yeah. He smiles, stands up and smiles again. That's creepy. So to me, it's like, I. I like the idea that he stands up and gives him the manly grin instead of smiling first and standing up.
01:10:13:13 - 01:10:55:01
Unknown
So it's just just an order of operations. Almost there. I like the running commentary he's got going in his head. I don't make a specific comment, but trying to figure out just what is going on and atriums fragment isn't really giving him a lot of information. And it's you can get the sense of frustration that he's feeling without saying he was frustrated because his thoughts, his actions, his reveals that this is a tense, frustrating situation for him, and he's trying to figure it out and he's not getting the answers he wants.
01:10:55:03 - 01:11:20:02
Unknown
I like the way Gil talks. I didn't again, another one I forgot to make a specific comment about, but he has a different mode of speaking than everybody than that we've read so far. So he feels like a foreigner. He feels like he doesn't belong in this area. Let's see.
01:11:20:04 - 01:11:38:10
Unknown
More details about the magic. Talking about the even the rank and file of the chaplains have training against mind mages.
01:11:38:12 - 01:12:07:10
Unknown
This is something about the the the the scene where he's grabbing Gil's hand when he reaches into his pocket. Like I knew he was reaching for the locket. Because I'm a writer. But for the reader, I, I don't know. I can't point out something specific, but it's feels slightly overreacted a onions part that he immediately assumes that this jolly happy go lucky guy is suddenly going for a weapon.
01:12:07:10 - 01:12:48:19
Unknown
Even though atrium has said that he's one of the most dangerous chaplains. Words and actions have different weight, and Gil's actions, don't seem to be threatening at any point. And again, I don't know, maybe, one of the things I mentioned is, foreshadow that he's dangerous a little bit more like just little hints of, like, situational awareness, body language, things like that.
01:12:48:19 - 01:13:35:18
Unknown
Like he you present him in his voice as very jolly. He comes across as very happy. One of those big, friendly guys that you meet occasionally. But if you emphasize the little things like taking notice of his surroundings. The, the sort of typical soldier actions that a lot of people use to describe assassin or dangerous characters along with the description of his happy go lucky personality, would make that scene feel slightly less like an overreaction that because he's doing these things, neon understands that yes, he is actually dangerous and I need to be on my guard.
01:13:35:20 - 01:14:08:14
Unknown
That makes sense. I was a little circle circular there on my logic, so I'm glad I finally was able to the point. Did did it that, So one of the interesting things I noticed is he's. So you say Gil is 21? Yes. Gosh, how old is he exactly? I don't even remember. That sounds right. Yeah, cause atrium says he's no more than 23 at most.
01:14:08:14 - 01:14:11:11
Unknown
He thought. Yeah.
01:14:11:13 - 01:14:35:09
Unknown
So, yeah, he thinks that Gil is 23. Yeah. Not explicitly stated, but yeah, like that's his assumption. Yeah, yeah. And so then he talks about how he's been, chaplain for five years. So that goes back to that comment way in the beginning, where in the first section where we joked about it, because I am 40, where the old man was 40.
01:14:35:11 - 01:15:21:13
Unknown
But this, this establishes a world where expectations start at younger ages. And so if life expect like five years as a chaplain on the front lines is a surprise that he survived that. So for there to be a 40 year old might be surprising. They might view that as old. So if if you're if you're ratcheting back sort of the start of adulthood to middle teenager and that somebody at 1617 is expected to be able to go out and fight and probably not survive or maybe survive that that makes that line slightly less of of yeah, out of place.
01:15:21:15 - 01:15:45:03
Unknown
But did that seem that that seemed like a possibility that this is a world with child soldiers as kind of trying to hint at that without saying. Yeah, directly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like and and to me it's you are revealing details. That way helps us start building an understanding of the world that people start fighting young, which is not again, it's not outside the realm of possibility.
01:15:45:05 - 01:16:09:15
Unknown
Unfortunately, it happens even in our day and age, in our world. So if and you have established a world that is dangerous, that's the important thing. If you don't establish a world that's dangerous, this kind of stuff doesn't make sense. But because this world is dangerous, like we've seen the gutter and how like a bunch of people just got blown up a few chapters ago.
01:16:09:17 - 01:16:32:05
Unknown
We're talking about a forest where, you know, neon is wondering, am I going to be able to find a safe place to sleep near this forest, Gil? Like, talk about how he survived on the front lines. And then, you know, at the end, when Gil is talking about the forest and how this. You know, that neon is assuming that they're safe on the borders.
01:16:32:07 - 01:16:46:20
Unknown
And Gil's response is, no, we're not like you've established a dangerous world. And that works. It works to to lower the ages of everything.
01:16:46:22 - 01:17:26:08
Unknown
Like the description of the fiancee. Like it's it's good. It gives. It gives that driving motion. It just. Gil struck me as a weird character. That fit. It fit what you were trying to do. Again, I just his tone of voice, his language, his manner, his his vocal mannerisms are great. But again, just adding in that little, those little soldiery things that he would do as his second nature, having survived for as long as he has.
01:17:26:10 - 01:17:35:02
Unknown
I like him, it's going to hurt one knee and has to kill him. Yes.
01:17:35:04 - 01:18:01:00
Unknown
Just guessing. Just guessing. So I like this little interaction right here where Gil drops his rock bag and looks up at me in a certain wariness. So you fear man more than beast? That from that down, that to to the end. It was like, okay, we've kind of got Neon's perspective, and he feels very confident.
01:18:01:00 - 01:18:41:02
Unknown
And we've seen when he was stills, he's very competent at what he does. He knows what he's doing. And then all of the sudden he is out of his element and has that pointed out to him very starkly without it, you know, without somebody being, you know, dismembered. So I overall this is good. Like I said, little bits of just character actions to give that that contrast between Gil's outer persona and his survival, his ability to survive despite dangerous situations.
01:18:41:04 - 01:18:59:00
Unknown
It's all I got. Cool, cool. Appreciate it. Yeah. My biggest kudos is is how you've described this the first. You know, we talked about it last time and and not not that you took what we said last time about bringing in more setting just because I think you'd already written this or it almost written that some of.
01:18:59:00 - 01:19:24:19
Unknown
But but the dread that we're still in now for the force is, is great. That that whole paragraph that that Jake mentioned where, where it ends with it weighted. That's great. I all I said, my only comment for that was heck yeah. And then just just the chef's kiss for, for for bringing that and Jake, you you almost you kind of hit on this, but you said it wrong.
01:19:24:19 - 01:19:34:18
Unknown
So I just wanted to say it right. Where is the shoot?
01:19:34:20 - 01:20:03:08
Unknown
We're not truly in the iris yet, after all, he protested. That's needed. And then Gil's Gil or Jill? Or are we saying Gil? Gil yells, have gays held on vest, are we not? I was like, oh yes, love it. Cool. I really like that. So that that big kills for that. Going back to the beginning to go in order, Jesse also mentioned the feature for prefrontal cortex.
01:20:03:10 - 01:20:24:22
Unknown
For me, I read that I was like, oh, that doesn't fit. So I wrote a comment and then I did not read the next sentence. So, Jesse, when you're talking about how, he gets away with it, I think, you know, really the sentence he does, I do think you need to switch him. I, I did the that it's a turn from Adrien first before I read prefrontal cortex.
01:20:25:00 - 01:20:44:22
Unknown
And obviously if I wasn't going through this making comments, I probably would have actually read that sentence and I would have made sense. But, I think it would work just as well or better if you, if you say something like, I don't know, I my brain is not going to work well enough to, to come up with a good sentence, but just shifting it so that it's clear.
01:20:45:00 - 01:21:04:23
Unknown
Before you said it. And you'll have to do that. But that that would have, kept me in, I thought the, we would have heard more from from atrium when he first meets them, because in my mind, he was coming in to kill this guy. And I still kind of think that. And whether or not I'm guessing that.
01:21:04:23 - 01:21:28:00
Unknown
Right? Adam? It doesn't matter. But I thought we would hear from him first. He'd be like, kill him or, you know, obviously he's not going to say on because he doesn't know if he's supposed to kill him yet. But I expected to hear from atrium a little bit sooner. And just going off of atrium. Atrium. He feels different.
01:21:28:04 - 01:21:48:17
Unknown
Like his personality feels different than the the the brief. And you're smiling at me, which is. Which makes me think. Yeah, which makes me think that, there's, spoilers that maybe I don't want to hit on. And now I'm suspecting things, but, it stuck out to me that he seems to have a different personality.
01:21:48:19 - 01:22:14:05
Unknown
Which is kind of a thing in your book. So maybe I'll leave it at that. But kind of, kick me out for a second and not in a bad way. Maybe if you want to make that a little bit less obvious, if that's something you're trying to do. I thought when he, he started first, started talking to Gil, and he has to start such straight white teeth.
01:22:14:07 - 01:22:31:04
Unknown
Now, this is a man I can respect. Wait. What? I thought he was being manipulated. Gil was using the the my magic on them. I don't know if he is. I don't know if it. I don't know if that's the more things that I shouldn't talk about for. No, no, he's definitely not. But that's what it felt like.
01:22:31:06 - 01:22:43:08
Unknown
And I and I kind of expected it. So that was. That's just something. Maybe you want to just. If you don't want that to be the the feeling.
01:22:43:10 - 01:23:09:12
Unknown
And then. Yeah, I really like I really let go. It is is definitely going to be heartbreaking. Especially because I'm assuming this next sequence is going to be them bonding as they travel through the forest, which I'm really looking forward to. I want to see what happens to them. What else is there going to say? I had a point to that.
01:23:09:14 - 01:23:36:02
Unknown
But it's too late here, you guys. It's 845. It's not late. Dear viewer says says the guy who gets up at three in the morning. Yeah, yeah, it's all relative. Oh, I remembered I had the point. It was a good point. When Adrian tells him that he's super dangerous, I felt like it was weird that the neon still, thinks about him and kind of treats him like he's an idiot.
01:23:36:04 - 01:24:00:09
Unknown
I felt like there be a little bit more wariness there. And, yes, he maybe is in, like. Like what? JC say. Maybe he's acting. Maybe the part of an idiot. And that does speak louder than words, but I, I would think that especially as an assassin, especially as a professional liar, that he kind of is he'd be more, the more way.
01:24:00:11 - 01:24:21:14
Unknown
Yeah. It's a good. Yeah, big, big kudos. I'm super I'm super excited for this. For a sequence. I assume that's where this is going. I did actually find he is 22. You specifically say he's 22. Oh, does atrium say that or is that like. Yes. Adrian. Okay. Gotcha. When he gets into the low down there. Oh yeah.
01:24:21:14 - 01:24:46:11
Unknown
Right after he grabs his hand, I found the I found the line where he talks about that. He's a the guilt. What? Gil's title is and how dangerous he is. That's right. Right in the middle of that conflict. I appreciate that. That's actually one of my big flaws. Jesse is keeping track of, like, I need to do a character Bible and keep it consistent so that the spellings of the different tribes and things are consistent.
01:24:46:13 - 01:25:04:18
Unknown
The ages of characters, things like that, you know? Yeah, I think we should all do that because I know, Jesse, you ran into that with with Jessica not remembering how old she was. I'm going to run into that. I have run into that where I, I've probably gone through like five different last names for Warren just because I couldn't remember his last name.
01:25:04:20 - 01:25:35:10
Unknown
So Jesse gets a new one. He just gets a new one every time I forget. Yeah, and it gets worse. The book I'm working on right now, I was looking at like, I'm trying to add more character descriptions in as I'm, I'm working and I look back and I'm like, I forgot to mention what, like 90% of these characters look like in, like, I have a character file and I keep forgetting to put in little details like hair color, eye color, skin color, because it's a fantasy book.
01:25:35:10 - 01:26:01:10
Unknown
So there are elves, orcs, dwarves, humans, and it's, yeah, I got to get better at it. Especially. I love to keep straight. I'm teaching a class. That's one of the classes I'm teaching. The irony. Yes. Do what I say. Don't do what they do. Yes. Learn from my bad example. Yeah. I don't think I have. I have a physical description of AJ, and you are in my book.
01:26:01:12 - 01:26:23:05
Unknown
I just does not have his glasses. Right. Is that a thing? Or do I just imagine that that's like me and stills with him, picturing him with a bowler every time I thought I was a sombrero? Jake. No, you don't actually have a physical description of AJ. I he kind of feels he feels like he's certain things.
01:26:23:05 - 01:26:42:18
Unknown
But you don't explicitly say any of them. That's anything to go back. I need to go back in and do that because, like. Like I told you guys this week, I was I went down the rabbit hole of of the Romani language languages because that's, that's where his family, it's kind of not there if not not straight through ethnicity.
01:26:42:20 - 01:27:00:00
Unknown
That's kind of where they have their roots. And I wanted to flavor their magic that way. But I should also probably flavor their appearance. So. Yes. And then get away for that because she just has gray hair and because she's old. Yeah. I need to do a little bit more. So there's just going to be, descriptions of him later in the book, like.
01:27:00:00 - 01:27:24:13
Unknown
And he brushed his long red hair. I'm like, what? Exactly. I'll go back, you know, when I think when the Warren, I have to do an orange perspective. Probably. But yeah, that would that would kind of feel the most natural, especially. I mean, you get that new guy bonus explanation, which is nice. Okay. Do you have it?
01:27:24:13 - 01:27:46:15
Unknown
Did you have any, questions for us or anything else you wanted to talk about? Here's, yeah. So I, I was wondering about the pacing. Does it feel too slow? Feels good. Pacing is good. Yeah. In my mind, if somebody is not dying each chapter, it's like, okay, some of the almost. I mean, it feels like it felt like there was the threat there.
01:27:46:15 - 01:28:11:13
Unknown
So you're still I think you're still on the, Yeah. You've got your streak kind of still going. If we want to. But I was like, okay, that's also a little bit like, care too much in one direction or another. Yeah, yeah. I mean, cool. Do do do do do. Did it feel Did it feel weird to linger that long on the lock it in the description of the gal inside the picture?
01:28:11:13 - 01:28:36:14
Unknown
I did, I did think it was a lot of detail to get from, like, a little locket, because I can't imagine that they have super advanced painting techniques or photographs. So to get that amount of detail from that tiny of a picture did seem a little bit much for me. But. And maybe, maybe, you know, not not to tell you how to fix it, but, please tell me how to fix it.
01:28:36:14 - 01:29:03:14
Unknown
You are an editor. It is this kind of pay you for it? I literally I had a thought and I lost it, but I'm so sorry. 1845 guys. No. You you do you go into a lot of details and you have a lot of really good concrete details. And this is usually the opposite of what I would say, but you could go more abstract with it.
01:29:03:16 - 01:29:39:08
Unknown
You could talk about the vibe more than, what she actually looks like, that that could be a way to to make it for me at least. You've got thoughts. I would say it all depends on what you are. Are we going to meet this character? Yeah. Okay. That's why she seems really important. Yeah, yeah. So to me, if she is, if she, if we're going to meet her, I think giving more of an abstract, like an impression of beauty that that he's captivated.
01:29:39:08 - 01:30:05:07
Unknown
But he doesn't 100% know why. Because again, look at pictures aren't super detailed, like Tyler said. And that way when we meet her, the impact is even greater that that you can do the trope that is a trope for a reason, that the picture didn't do her justice. And it's really captivated by her. Like he was interested because the picture, a small, tiny picture, was like, wow, she's probably really pretty.
01:30:05:09 - 01:30:35:20
Unknown
And then he meets her in real life and is like, no, she's gorgeous and draws the eye of everybody. So I think stepping back a little bit on the detail will make the actual, reveal, as it were, more impactful. Okay, cool. I appreciate that. I was kind of struggling, because I'm kind of introducing a character, but not but using her as like a fixation for her fiancé and contributing to the weird image that you're getting of girl.
01:30:35:21 - 01:31:00:06
Unknown
Hopefully, like, yes, why is this dude showing off his locket? Like, why is it so important that he's going to get shot over it? Okay. Did, actually along those lines, I'm always kind of trying to balance the feel of technology in this world and like, how it how far along they are in terms of, like, real world equivalents, to the fact that it was explicitly mentioned, a photograph or that kick anybody out or raise a lady.
01:31:00:11 - 01:31:32:00
Unknown
I know because I've studied when I had to do a report on the history of photography once. So good for you. To me, to me, it doesn't feel out of place. Maybe, maybe look at what they called pictures when they were first coming out. Like they weren't always called photographs. So switching up your term might help people a little bit to sort of place the technological level.
01:31:32:02 - 01:32:00:04
Unknown
Would that be my suggestion on that? Because you're using the term rifle and rifles were called rifles because there was rifling in the barrel. And so if you're that far along and if you want other technology to be sort of at that pace, then and if they're super new, like if, like, and I did kind of get that impression that the rifles aren't widespread.
01:32:00:06 - 01:32:32:08
Unknown
So that sort of gives you an idea of what their terminology they're going to be using for photography. Unless you have something that might change my opinion. It's just it's funny. Yeah. So you see, it's funny that you should mention that because my next question, I was going to confess to you guys, as I was going through, like I said, I was kind of rewriting a few, some sections of what I had already made and then weaving them together with this new opening and kind of tweaking details and changing things, interweaving throughout.
01:32:32:10 - 01:32:50:12
Unknown
I was just not feeling the rifle technology. I was going back and I was like, this feels like it should be like flintlock or something like this feels like it should be in order for magic and, firearms to stand on roughly equal footing at this point, technologically, it feels like it should be flintlock. So I just as like executive decision.
01:32:50:12 - 01:33:06:02
Unknown
I don't know who else is going to make this decision. I went through and I was like, you know, it is a flintlock now. And that's going to make everything a little bit more hopefully spicy because you get one shot, you know? Yeah, that definitely changes. Not a match lock. So you don't have to spend two hours reloading it, but.
01:33:06:02 - 01:33:27:08
Unknown
Right. And it would explain why not everyone has has a gun, even if it's, you know, because, like, you know, when rifles do come out, you know, muskets and stuff had been a thing for a long time. So the people, most everyone did have something. So if we are going back to Flint locks, that makes that would make that make more sense.
01:33:27:10 - 01:33:53:19
Unknown
And this is a world where bow and arrows are still, you know, you can reload that a lot faster than you can, for locks. And that's, that's how it was, like it was it was still not crazy effective to have. Yeah. So to have a have a gun until. Yeah. Put that into perspective. There is a actual fencing manual for our from our time period that gives you instructions on how to approach a gun or with a sword.
01:33:53:19 - 01:34:32:09
Unknown
If you have a sword and they have to bring a sword, do a gun fight. Yeah. They talk about how you instead of running straight, you go in and zig zag and offset the gun with your sword because it's super hard to track with those old, especially those old ones. So that it's. Yeah, the the history of weaponry is really wild, and people don't realize just how much crossover there was sometimes between what we consider primitive or medieval weaponry and what we consider modern, and where all of that crossover comes in.
01:34:32:09 - 01:35:08:16
Unknown
So. Yeah. That's cool. On that front. Have you considered because, artillery was first like cannon was where sort of where the big things have you considered that just in the broader context of the world? Not super deeply. There is a larger world. And I hopefully what I'm getting at here is that this is a this is a pocket of the world, like where the main bulk of the story is taking place.
01:35:08:18 - 01:35:34:13
Unknown
I don't remember if it's this chapter. I think it's the next that I mentioned that guns are imports, like they're not manufactured. Usually in this part of the world, there's an illicit market for them. They're being slowly introduced. And again, not technologically advantageous as of yet. You know. Yeah. And so artillery in a forest wouldn't necessarily be especially the more thick parts of the forest would necessarily be preferable as a weapon.
01:35:34:15 - 01:35:57:13
Unknown
Yeah. Just, one of the, one of the things that, comes to mind as I read, I don't know if you've ever read, alley mode. It's magic of reckless series. Yes. Yeah. All right. So, Tyler, you've not read it? I don't think so. Oh, first of all, it's really good. Yeah. Magic of reckless is really of reckless.
01:35:57:13 - 01:36:19:20
Unknown
Like. Like reckless like hermits. Yeah. Yes. It's, Yeah, it's a good series. It's a really grounded feeling. Worlds. Yeah. The technology and. Yeah, that's a good point. How we incorporate that with magic is really cool. Like gunpowder is a liability in some cases, because chaos wizards can set fire to it at a certain distance away.
01:36:19:22 - 01:36:42:04
Unknown
And so you have to be really careful with how you use gunpowder. Otherwise you're just a big dummy. You're setting yourself up for massive failure. It's and I will say it's a non-linear story like book one sort of takes place in the middle of the does. What did you say about the middle of the the story? If I remember.
01:36:42:04 - 01:37:04:16
Unknown
Right. Yeah. And then it goes like, you can get some that jump back hundreds of years, some that go forward a little bit and it it the books bounce around in the history. But yeah, that's one of those that if you're wondering how magic and technology can interact, it's a great way to look at how developing technology and magic can work together.
01:37:04:18 - 01:37:19:10
Unknown
It's a good point. Brian McClellan's Gunpowder Mage series is also really good. I've heard of that one. I've heard of it, but not looked into it. Yeah, he was one of the Brandon Sanderson students, so. Yep.
01:37:19:12 - 01:37:39:07
Unknown
Cool. Well, I think, among technological ones, that was the last question that I had in particular. So thanks, guys. I really appreciate the feedback and I'm really looking forward to you guys reading these next couple of chapters. Yeah, that'll be fun. Yeah, I'm trying to remember what the next chapters are in Technomancer like, do you see there there be some action?
01:37:39:09 - 01:38:07:12
Unknown
I so I'm sure that it's still kind of, oh man. The hard part with you got to kill it. Writing it is like I give a case that is a lot slower paced and, and part of that part of it is to contrast with the Hero Unit series main, where it's a lot, there's a lot more higher, a lot more higher, a lot.
01:38:07:14 - 01:38:32:08
Unknown
So there we go. There's higher stakes. They're they're they're put on cases that are a lot more dangerous. And what's great about it again, and so yeah, sometimes the, the, the cons with case files, they, they, they're a little bit slower. So I'm gonna have to take a look at, take a look at, maybe some scene orders and stuff.
01:38:32:10 - 01:38:54:04
Unknown
Yeah, I would say, you know, either either I want some, like like action, like a fight scene or something, or, I know there's kind of this, hinted at romantic arc coming our ways. I would progress there or, like, or action. I would say that might. That might be what what? Josh Turner. Anyway, we'll find we'll find that.
01:38:54:08 - 01:39:28:13
Unknown
What? Next time on heroes. Yeah. Take them matter. I had a thought, talking about Megalomaniacs referring to themselves in The Persians. The third person writers group. That's not a bad one. I like that one. The third part. What if we add a fourth person? We're going to have to kick me out of something to add a.
01:39:28:15 - 01:39:50:18
Unknown
We'll have to. We'll have to just keep throwing names around because nothing really feels quite like the the third person writers group. I think maybe, maybe you need some tweaking, but yeah. Yeah, maybe there's some. Maybe there's something there's something there. I think there's something there. Dear listener, by the time you hear this, you'll think you're idiots because you'll already have a name for her podcast.
01:39:50:18 - 01:40:12:12
Unknown
So right now, as we're recording, the 23rd of January, we do not like. Yeah, you don't know what we're going to do. To we can't open up a poll for all 10,000 of our listeners. Wouldn't that be so nice? Actually, wouldn't it be so nice if Brandon Sanderson and Dan Laws hadn't already taken the intentionally blank pages as,
01:40:12:14 - 01:40:30:11
Unknown
That's so good. Yes, it is. Oh, well, last time we kind of ended off, discussing a question. I didn't come prepared with a question, but I think that could be a fun closing segment. Yeah, but if we don't, then maybe we should. Yeah.
01:40:30:13 - 01:40:57:13
Unknown
The nice thing is, is we've talked about some of the, like, the writer stuff, like having to bring in stakes that like, I deal with superheroes and a lot like you've pointed out, a lot of my characters are invulnerable. Physical stakes are less of a thing. They're still there. But it takes, extreme measures to get to where physical stakes become,
01:40:57:15 - 01:41:34:00
Unknown
And you will I will say you will see a scene later in the book where physical stakes are real. And so how it's how to give your readers stakes when maybe the physical isn't, like peril. You're not hanging your character from a cliff every chapter. Or, like gray said, you're not killing someone. Every chapter. So giving your characters stakes and keeping your readers engaged is one of those, one of those things that we need to learn as writers.
01:41:34:02 - 01:42:07:01
Unknown
So Tyler, you've talked a little bit about it. So to give stakes outside of physical harm, what are some of the things you like seeing other writers like to use yourself or dislike? Yeah, I think, to go off of that a little bit before I, before I come up with an answer from somewhere, I, I would almost say that physical stakes, you know, getting hurt, to a certain extent, dying is almost like a cheap way to have stakes.
01:42:07:02 - 01:42:23:20
Unknown
I think the real the real stakes. You should be having our emotional stakes. There should be, something like that going on, and I, you know, we can maybe turn to romantic romance. Romance, which is something we're all very good at writing.
01:42:23:22 - 01:42:44:22
Unknown
But there's there's the relationship at stake. And, you know, I, I tried to have a little bit of, different, different friend relationships and different romantic relationships in my in my story. And there's always the question of if I say this or if I do this, will I ruin everything? And I think that, you know, we're always trying to make our art resemble reality.
01:42:44:22 - 01:43:03:22
Unknown
And I think that's very real. Like, you know, I've been I've been happily married for, for six plus years. Congrats. And there are still things that you get okay. And there are still things I could do that would ruin my relationship. And so there's still stakes in my relationship. There's still things I have to do to keep things up and to to keep them from getting down.
01:43:03:22 - 01:43:25:07
Unknown
And so and that's that's for friends relationship as well. My my best buds AJ and Luke, who have been friends since the third grade kind of mirroring my well, in my relationships with my best, best friends. There are things that they could do that could ruin their relationship. I don't think it ever comes up.
01:43:25:09 - 01:43:55:08
Unknown
At least it's not going to come up in this book, maybe the next book. But there are still there's still risk. It's something has to be risks for there to be stakes. If it is a physical like, like we talked about with your urgency because the, the main characters are essentially invincible, if they lose another character, if they're protecting a kid and, and the kid is at risk or something like that, that, that will give it that still emotional stakes, even though there's physical stakes at the same time.
01:43:55:10 - 01:44:31:15
Unknown
Those are my thoughts that came from somewhere. Somebody, somewhere deep inside. Yeah. For me, Jake, I would say I subscribe to that school of writing which says, the character always has to be in danger of some form of death and overcoming that. Whether that is emotional or physical, and that can depend on the genre. And by the way, I'm, I'm ripping this off from James Scott Bell, who's a bestselling, thriller writer and particularly tends to write, but, okay.
01:44:31:15 - 01:44:55:07
Unknown
So the classic example is Casablanca. So have you guys seen that? Nope. All right. So but I've said it. No, I know the premise yet. All right. War time. Gosh, what is this? Morocco, French Nazi controlled Morocco. And there's a bartender named, Rick who owns this place downtown, and it's this very seedy establishments.
01:44:55:07 - 01:45:14:06
Unknown
And Rick has this line that he sticks his neck out for nobody, because he's not willing to risk his own personal security for anybody, even though maybe he believes in the war effort. Maybe he doesn't. He's not really willing to say. Once upon a time, he was very much against Nazis. Now he doesn't seem to care, until the former love of his life enters his life.
01:45:14:06 - 01:45:33:00
Unknown
And all of a sudden, he's first met with the emotional stakes stakes of like, okay, can I win this woman back? Do I even want to? Is, is this emotional gray that I've allowed my heart to become? This going to be broken again if I. If I give my heart to this woman who's now married, by the way.
01:45:33:00 - 01:46:02:13
Unknown
So there's that. And then the added physical stakes, once he decides to take up the woman's cause, the allied cause, okay, he could not only lose his fa his livelihood, he could lose his life. Right. And those two things are kind of melded together. And it really beautifully done. I don't know. So throughout every portion, every, stage of that movie, there's always this question of, is he going to stay comfortable or is he going to get out there?
01:46:02:13 - 01:46:34:10
Unknown
Is he going to potentially sacrifice something, or is he going to put something on the line for what he believes? Does he even believe anything anymore? Right. Is he going to is he already dying inside? Is this what he needs to live? Truly? Life? Yeah. Something. Something else I would add. When it comes to stakes and, you know, we're we're all kind of dealing with, with different levels of how many people could die compared, in, in the confines of our stories, the world ending is not a real stake.
01:46:34:12 - 01:47:01:08
Unknown
Despite every movie, despite every superhero movie. It is. It is too big. Your reader, like, nobody can really understand that. They can't, connect to that. That being said, you can have the risk of the world ending, but you have to focus on individuals. It has to be about individual stories. One of my one of my students, is writing, you know, like intergalactic warfare and stuff like that.
01:47:01:08 - 01:47:24:16
Unknown
And he had the question about how you, deal with massive tragedy. And somebody, somebody said to somebody, somebody much smarter than me. So don't don't attribute that to me. I just don't remember who it was. A child's shoe at the at the, at the ground zero or whatever it is that is so much more powerful than this amount of people died.
01:47:24:20 - 01:47:46:02
Unknown
I taught the Holocaust. There's a big number when the multiverse is collapsed. Yeah, yeah. You can't you can't understand the Holocaust. I'm getting a little bit emotional. I apologize, by thinking about the the 6 million number. That that huge number. That's too big. I live in a small town. You guys live in. It's slightly bigger towns, but still small towns.
01:47:46:02 - 01:48:12:18
Unknown
Tiny town. Yeah. 6 million is too big of a number. It's the stories. It's why whenever you go to a museum about the Holocaust, it's. It's pictures. It's stories. It's it's it's individuals. So whatever, whatever level your stakes are in your book, you can use totally in the world. It's fine. Don't envelope with it. But if you do it, it's not going to be powerful unless you focus on an individual's story.
01:48:12:19 - 01:48:37:02
Unknown
Yeah, I agree with that. At the end of the first Avengers movie, when you have the Avengers fighting a bunch of CGI aliens in New York, like all that sounds pretty interesting, right? But, they're getting down on the ground and they're saving. Yeah, specific people who will then at the end of the movie in the tournament, in are being interviewed by the press and saying, oh, Captain America saved me and my daughter like, it does wonders.
01:48:37:02 - 01:49:11:03
Unknown
Yeah. To have a face that you can pair with it. Yeah. Awesome. Good question. That's, Yeah, I think that's, that's one of those things that the I went through as a beginning writer. I was all about the big world ending events and, you know, the stakes were always just through the roof. And even though I have characters that are even more powerful than what I originally wrote, I'm having to ground them because nobody can relate to ace.
01:49:11:03 - 01:49:28:19
Unknown
You know, on a physical level, you can't relate to Superman on a physical level. You don't know what it's like to be able to fly. You know, around it, to be able to be able to fly, period, let alone be able to stop bullets and survive in outer space and take, you know, explosions to the face and be fine.
01:49:28:21 - 01:49:52:00
Unknown
I have to take and give her. And in the same way, Jessica, I have to ground her in reality. And a lot of times it's the relationships around her that ground her, that bring her down, bring her out of the world of being a superhero and bring gear into the world of being a mom, a girlfriend, a friend, you know, somebody with conflicts.
01:49:52:02 - 01:50:16:16
Unknown
And I'm still working on that. So working with you guys has really helped me to understand that that. And it's not like I didn't understand it before, but to know that that bringing those emotional stakes in are going to help my readers actually care about my characters more than just, oh, it's fun to read, you know, about Superman being someone up.
01:50:16:18 - 01:50:39:01
Unknown
That is fun. It is fun, but it doesn't stay with you. It's not the, like, the kind of stories that stay with you or the ones that resonate with you emotionally. So that's that's one of the things that that I'm striving for. And your guys's feedback has been helping with that. So. With that, writers groups are cool. Yeah.
01:50:39:03 - 01:51:03:16
Unknown
The, the one thing I can say to all of our listeners, however many there are whenever you hear this, as if you want to succeed as a writer, find a writers group. No man is an island. Maybe we should make a tagline out of out of that works for a writers group. And the writer I.
01:51:03:18 - 01:51:19:22
Unknown
Well, dear listener, we hope you've enjoyed the last hour and 40 minutes with us. Hopefully we weren't too bored. Thank you for for listening with this this long. There's nothing else. We'll catch you later. Till next time. Bye bye.